80s Wrestling Mafia - Spec Thread

Hedin

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
Such low activity for having scum on the ropes, kind of disappointing. It feels like turm and LP are the only ones really trying to solve but no one is listening to them (Zeke is just in a bad tunnel and Sparks is just parroting him, no clue what jman is doing). Then we have Kopite, who said he would vote for wee, and Z-beat completely inactive.
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Hedin said:
Such low activity for having scum on the ropes, kind of disappointing. It feels like turm and LP are the only ones really trying to solve but no one is listening to them (Zeke is just in a bad tunnel and Sparks is just parroting him, no clue what jman is doing). Then we have Kopite, who said he would vote for wee, and Z-beat completely inactive.
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Yeah, the scum team did pick good kills, I'll give them that, they've killed most of the more active players and left the vocal player that's following a PoE with more potential for miselims.
 
Ephidel

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
EC said:
Thus turning the attention away from yourself, yeah. Then people will go "rage can't be scum, he presented this big case on why someone else is scum!".
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That's...
That's really not the reasoning anyone would have for why Zeke isn't likely to be scum at this point
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Chuggernaut

Chuggernaut

HONK HONK MF
This is going to be an interesting game to look back on at the very least. Like there's very clear line from when the loudest players went from looking for reasons to town read someone to just looking for errors in play and throwing everything townie they did out. The fun part is they can't actually get Wee by making cases like this because that slot was gone for so long she was never around to do anything "scummy"
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
weemadarthur said:
I’m not voting masons or the motivator who boosted the cop today.



Turm and EC are both in my PoE, who else is alive? Kop, LP, HP, jman. Of those i don’t feel great about Kopite’s contributions or jman’s reliance on his role claim, but I have not iso’d him so i’m not being entirely fair to him. LP has sounded towny in words, would need to analyze more fully to move him DOWN the list.



LP

HP - this slot is here because i forgot ev3rything about him and need to review it all, so i stuck it in the middle

jman

kop



is my order of towniness imo.
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Come on folks lol this is a list of six names keeping the PoE wide, all with the wiggle room to swap to a scum read, one is left open on the basis of forgetting everything about them , none of them really being given any points towards being town (LP only sounds towny, could change on an iso). The only three cleared are three mechanically checked players and even those are only "I'm not voting today", this is effectively 9 players on the table.

On the flip side, Wee is playing well because it's gone unnoticed while town points fingers at itself.
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Well hopefully this day phase puts to bed the idea the game design meant the game was loaded towards one team or the other. Town can have all the confirmable roles it likes and be in a strong position with a relatively straight forward PoE...but you can't make people work together lol
 
Hedin

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
I would be tempted to go after Zeke or LP instead, get rid of the loud active players.
 
Hedin

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
weemadarthur said:
That’s a role that literally can’t be scum, but with so few killing roles and a Loved claim, it doesn’t sound like it fits with town either.
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Did wee just slip? I don't think Zeke or Sparks claimed lovers, just masons.
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Lone_Prodigy said:
Look at the read lists from flipped town: ATP, Chuggs, and Donnie. Look at who they have as top town and top scum. Turmoil is almost always near the bottom.
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LP nooooo Wee was lower :cor: Turm was there before the Geno flip but you can't miss that my gossip chat from both Chuggs and I hashing it out summary and subsequent reads put Turm above EC and Wee
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Gotta say I've really liked Turm's solving today by looking for who he can reaffirm as town reads, admittedly i struggled reading Turm until we had some flipped scum but today it's a really stark contrast against Wee where you can see their reads are all about keeping low, keeping anyone open to being scum so they can maneuver correctly if they make it long enough.
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Donnie, I appreciate that you spec like I do - that is, it's like you're still playing :D
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Donnie said:
Gotta say I've really liked Turm's solving today by looking for who he can reaffirm as town reads, admittedly i struggled reading Turm until we had some flipped scum but today it's a really stark contrast against Wee where you can see their reads are all about keeping low, keeping anyone open to being scum so they can maneuver correctly if they make it long enough.
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Yeah, I think it helps that we have the outside perspective, but wee's slot should be the first one cleared here when so many people are saying "everyone feels town" for multiple reasons. That's one. It's also the least known slot since OJ dipped. That's always the right place to cut, all feelings aside. If you aren't sure where to go, go to the biggest unknown - and here, that's either wee or EC. EC is just being himself, so that's a literal coinflip for most, apparently (I disagree but neither here nor there).

And then to add to that, wee is very much about staying middle ground and keeping options over. Lots of agreeable posts and from wee that should be a red flag lol (love you, wee)
 
Hedin

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
Like if I didn't know Zeke was town that would feel like a slip because he knows the game would continue.
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Look, I'm about to be the bad guy here, but I'm just gonna say my piece.

The tone in this game changed 1000000000% when people stopped trying to work together and went back to nitpicking and looking for flaws.

Maybe the problems in the community relate to that. And maybe that's something we need to think about.
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
heymonkey said:
Look, I'm about to be the bad guy here, but I'm just gonna say my piece.

The tone in this game changed 1000000000% when people stopped trying to work together and went back to nitpicking and looking for flaws.

Maybe the problems in the community relate to that. And maybe that's something we need to think about.
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For sure. Really regardless of which team takes this game, there will be some stuff to think about in terms of town strategy and what was working and what wasn't and why. Folks only showing up EoD to ask if we won yet or to pad their post count too, not a big fan of that. Things only went as well as they did for town for those 4 day phases because of the effort that was put it, it doesn't just come to you, and that goes for speaking up to pitch your case for why someone is town as much as who isn't.
 
turmoil7

turmoil7

Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
Caught up. About the design I really liked and enjoyed puzzling through it. I think what really cleared stuff was Zeke and Sparks getting the lovers. That's two potential eliminations being instantly cleared, it couldn't be better for town. It was probably unbalanced but I think just a little. Make the Nexus divert bullets too and another little perk and probably that's it, but otherwise it was a really good design imo.
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
turmoil7 said:
Caught up. About the design I really liked and enjoyed puzzling through it. I think what really cleared stuff was Zeke and Sparks getting the lovers. That's two potential eliminations being instantly cleared, it couldn't be better for town. It was probably unbalanced but I think just a little. Make the Nexus divert bullets too and another little perk and probably that's it, but otherwise it was a really good design imo.
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From every angle I see that’s got worse potential implications for scum (nexus change) with current roles - what are you seeing I’m not?
 
turmoil7

turmoil7

Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
It would help making more likely the vigilante kills townies. Just a bit.

Another interesting change could be making the strongman into a full suit of kill modification with ninja shots too. Maybe a delayed kill too for misinformation.

I love jailers but they are OP in the late game. Maybe it should had been tuned down to 1 shot.

In a game with flavor and power roles tied up so tightly as this one, any fakeclaim stands out after enough flips. It would have been probably good to either be more liberal giving names that don't fit powers very well so that there is pausible deniability for scum, or to give powers that aren't in play along with fitting names to scum as fakeclaim, of course they can try make their own if that's their thing.

I can't think of any other change that wouldn't probably make it unbalanced on the other way.
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
turmoil7 said:
It would help making more likely the vigilante kills townies. Just a bit.

Another interesting change could be making the strongman into a full suit of kill modification with ninja shots too. Maybe a delayed kill too for misinformation.

I love jailers but they are OP in the late game. Maybe it should had been tuned down to 1 shot.

In a game with flavor and power roles tied up so tightly as this one, any fakeclaim stands out after enough flips. It would have been probably good to either be more liberal giving names that don't fit powers very well so that there is pausible deniability for scum, or to give powers that aren't in play along with fitting names to scum as fakeclaim, of course they can try make their own if that's their thing.

I can't think of any other change that wouldn't probably make it unbalanced on the other way.
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But on the off chance scum then ends up deflecting two vigilante shots, one is going down - so it doesn't seem worth it and if they mess up the explanation, they might even both die. I could agree with potentially toning down the jailer, but really all I'd do is maybe add a track shot.

Flavor is really tricky in these kinds of games but I think this one ends up working better than some because with wrassle bros, they swap back and forth. I do have a comment about something else and that's postgame, more a complexity issue in the theoretical sense, and less to do with this game - more I guess that this game helped me maybe solve something? Idk, it'll be interesting to discuss.

It's been fun to watch this one since I've been back in town.
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
HPSauce said:
Still is if they vote right today lol.
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It's a very good town game if it ends today; if it goes on, well, that's mafia and that's how it goes lol.

But I think it is an argument that it's really difficult to predict the balance of a game from any position, and every position is going to have different takes on it. So in the end all we can do is what we do now - follow some formulas, run some scenarios, consider how things get read, and keep refining the process. No game is perfect, and some end up wacky and some intense and swingy in a good way, but there is so much care and time put into these and I am delighted with how we grow and change.

leave me alone, i'm nice sometimes
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
I do feel for everyone who survives if this goes to endgame, though. this is gonna be a really interesting one if it gets to a final situation.

I believe in a calm and cool LP, and I think if jman comes back feeling refreshed today, he can get there, too. I believe in Kopite, too. Y'all can do this. C'mon, dudes!
 
HPSauce

HPSauce

Wait, I was right? Fuck
heymonkey said:
It's a very good town game if it ends today; if it goes on, well, that's mafia and that's how it goes lol.

But I think it is an argument that it's really difficult to predict the balance of a game from any position, and every position is going to have different takes on it. So in the end all we can do is what we do now - follow some formulas, run some scenarios, consider how things get read, and keep refining the process. No game is perfect, and some end up wacky and some intense and swingy in a good way, but there is so much care and time put into these and I am delighted with how we grow and change.

leave me alone, i'm nice sometimes
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Either way I really enjoyed this game. Best town game for me since SD2 I guess. Perhaps there's something in this being helpful buisness?
 
HPSauce

HPSauce

Wait, I was right? Fuck
heymonkey said:
Eh, take the good moments and don't beat yourself up.
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The thing Donnie relayed from you about looking for town and scum versus just looking for scum really resonated with me. It helped me a lot in my perspective on the game as a whole and helped me not fall into my regular trap of just being as prickly as humanly possible. I hope that long term this will give me a healthier relationship with mafia in general and I really appreciate you (and Donnie!) for enabling that. :hugs:
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
HPSauce said:
The thing Donnie relayed from you about looking for town and scum versus just looking for scum really resonated with me. It helped me a lot in my perspective on the game as a whole and helped me not fall into my regular trap of just being as prickly as humanly possible. I hope that long term this will give me a healthier relationship with mafia in general and I really appreciate you (and Donnie!) for enabling that. :hugs:
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Learning that changed my entire way of thinking about the game. Seeing so many people working to embrace it makes me want to play again! Or rather, it makes me feel more like I could handle playing, potentially - that's better phrased, lol
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
HPSauce said:
The thing Donnie relayed from you about looking for town and scum versus just looking for scum really resonated with me. It helped me a lot in my perspective on the game as a whole and helped me not fall into my regular trap of just being as prickly as humanly possible. I hope that long term this will give me a healthier relationship with mafia in general and I really appreciate you (and Donnie!) for enabling that. :hugs:
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This is really nice to read! Honestly for me it's miserable to play the other way, the worst games I've played in were the ones were town couldn't find each other or everyone was just really guarded and snipey at each other and happy to treat each other as disposable as long as it wasn't them. Sure, it runs the risk of being pocketed or a wolf getting in the circle (which is what I think scares people the most, making yourself vulnerable to that) so you need to re-evaluate your town reads just the same as your scum reads as you go along but it's just a nicer more enjoyable game coming from a place of wanting to find and trust people.

Even with a 5 person scum team in this game, which is pretty big, there was 16 of us with the same alignment. Pick 4 or 5 people you want to trust or wouldn't vote on day one and you would be exceptionally unlucky to pick the whole scum team; odds say you're only like to pick one up and thats just using random picks and not what you're reading and seeing in the thread, learning from actions and then re-evaluating day to day etc. This game I had

Jman for the claim
LP
Nin
Ephi
Sneeks
Chuggs
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On my day one "would not vote list" 24 hours in. 5 I picked and one from a claim. So even at that I picked up 2 scum in my initial swing but it wasn't the end of the world, further day phases, behaviours and actions allowed me to re-evaluate those out, while at the same time I was quickly able to move ATP & HP up into that list then Zeke & Sparks mechanically early D2.

Lots and lots of words just to say the obvious really; as town the odds are on your side when you town read. Anyway, glad you had fun this time :)
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Ephidel said:
I came very close to doing that once before. I... just felt the need to put that out there
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Hahahah aww. Well, it's not impossible, that's totally fair. But there's nothing wrong with that or to be scared from it either. I made some bad calls in DR2 and I didn't reevaluate in time but I enjoyed the majority of the game at least. It was largely a pleasant death lmao and I learned things there too.
 
Chuggernaut

Chuggernaut

HONK HONK MF
Donnie said:
This is really nice to read! Honestly for me it's miserable to play the other way, the worst games I've played in were the ones were town couldn't find each other or everyone was just really guarded and snipey at each other and happy to treat each other as disposable as long as it wasn't them. Sure, it runs the risk of being pocketed or a wolf getting in the circle (which is what I think scares people the most, making yourself vulnerable to that) so you need to re-evaluate your town reads just the same as your scum reads as you go along but it's just a nicer more enjoyable game coming from a place of wanting to find and trust people.

Even with a 5 person scum team in this game, which is pretty big, there was 16 of us with the same alignment. Pick 4 or 5 people you want to trust or wouldn't vote on day one and you would be exceptionally unlucky to pick the whole scum team; odds say you're only like to pick one up and thats just using random picks and not what you're reading and seeing in the thread, learning from actions and then re-evaluating day to day etc. This game I had



On my day one "would not vote list" 24 hours in. 5 I picked and one from a claim. So even at that I picked up 2 scum in my initial swing but it wasn't the end of the world, further day phases, behaviours and actions allowed me to re-evaluate those out, while at the same time I was quickly able to move ATP & HP up into that list then Zeke & Sparks mechanically early D2.

Lots and lots of words just to say the obvious really; as town the odds are on your side when you town read. Anyway, glad you had fun this time :)
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Yeah I think it’s a fear of getting fooled and I don’t know I don’t think there’s anything to be scared with that. Like I straight up had Ephi in my town reads list for almost all of day 1 until Hedin mentioned her right at the end and I was like “hold up. There’s nothing townie here at all actually”

Neeks I think I was avoiding for a long time in this game too and I don’t think I was really convinced of that till our night chat before I died
 
Donnie

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Chuggernaut said:
Yeah I think it’s a fear of getting fooled and I don’t know I don’t think there’s anything to be scared with that. Like I straight up had Ephi in my town reads list for almost all of day 1 until Hedin mentioned her right at the end and I was like “hold up. There’s nothing townie here at all actually”

Neeks I think I was avoiding for a long time in this game too and I don’t think I was really convinced of that till our night chat before I died
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Totally agree. There's a fear of getting fooled and the embarrassment you might feel from *getting played* both personally and in front of others and then probably there's the fear that putting out the wrong read will come back on you later but here's nothing scummy about townreading someone who later flips scum, town doesn't have the answers.
 
AllThingsPurple

AllThingsPurple

This was the closest I came to a reads list in d1

Yeah I don't get scum vibes from Rover either and won't be voting there.

I'm out for dinner atm. Should be back before day end.

I like Lp's recent post because I agree with it. Also feel good about nin and ephi. Begrudgingly hp and chuggs too.

Donnie I'm mostly feel good about, but I felt good about him last game too where he was scum.

In case I don't get back in time. Vote: Hedin
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Pretty good feels, funnily enough ephi in there though lol
 
turmoil7

turmoil7

Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
Has the definition of role madness changed? There is either 0 or 1 of each possible role. I don't get where the "it's weird there aren't more vanillas" thing that comes up sometimes.
 
Fanto

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah, the point of Role Madness is that everyone has a different role. Vanilla is a role, so having one person as a Vanilla makes sense in that context still. Having more than one would not.
 
The Wizard

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
Could be recency bias with Ducktales being one of the latest straight role madness games, it had 3 vanillas but they were able to be neighborized (and had some other flavor interactions which made them not quite identical)
Haven't seen the 0 or 1 restriction spelt out before, mafiawiki has it as "few to no true Vanilla Townies".
 
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