MafiEra Season 18 Review |OT| I can't believe Sonic & Tails killed the mafia.

Sawneeks

Sawneeks

little green dog
What term should we replace lynch with in our Rules/Documents?

Vote in the poll HERE!

This will run a little over 24 hours and when it ends I will post the result. I will also start to wrap up the review thread if discussion has slowed down.
eiukqtxfro

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Hello everyone! Welcome to Season 18’s review thread where we discuss the current state of our community and what we want to see changed, altered, or fixed in order to make our games even better for everyone. Below are a list of changes we want everyone’s opinions on before we implement them (or not!) and some topics we want to bring up that we don’t have specific solutions for.

Proposed changes for the new season and all seasons going forward:
  1. We will replace all instances of “lynch” in official rules and game design documentation with “eliminate” (or similar words as appropriate) but will not establish any in-game rules regarding the use of terms for kills. We propose these changes for several reasons:
    • It keeps us in line with language trends in other mafia communities.
    • For new players checking out our community, this demonstrates an intentionality with language and design that is reflective of our overall community approach.
    • It preserves space for multiple perspectives on language and meaning.
  2. This season, some members have raised objections to “lunch” as an alternative and we would like to ask folks to phase it out if possible. Tell your autocorrects.
  3. We will adjust rule 26 to include all instances of rule-breaking. Rule 26 will now read: "If a player is replaced or modkilled due to any rule-breaking or being under the minimum post count limit, they will have end-game priority when signing up for a spot in their next game"
    • Rationale: Currently, under the old priority system (back in use), players who are replaced for rule breaking have higher priority than those who play to the end, and this change seeks to correct that discrepancy. Players who are replaced under the rules will be treated as if they survived the entire game.
    • This rule will also cover bans on Era. As long as a player can manage over 5 posts during a Day Phase then they will not be replaced. If a ban is longer than a Day Phase then that person will be replaced automatically. Please always try to alert your gamerunner if you get banned! Our Discord server is the best place to do so.
  4. Proposed change: add language to PMs when necessary indicating risk of modkill for gaming rule systems or game tools.
    • See Mario Kart: Double Dash mafia for an example. A role removed other players ability to vote during the Day and individuals who claimed to be afflicted were asked to prove this by voting even though they were not allowed to. There was some confusion as to whether or not this could be done and it ended with a player being removed. This rule is not meant to punish players, but rather to clarify gamerunner stances and allow players an out when others try to encourage them to game the system.
    • IF gamerunner/game reviewers forget this change, or it takes time to implement (due to completed games in the pipeline), we encourage players to check with gamerunners for clarification before attempting anything that might brush up against a rule.

Additional issues from this season we want to discuss but have no changes in mind for:

The facilitators would like to remind everyone of Rule 13:
Players should not perform moderator actions in game, including using highlight text outside of voting, or issuing day-end/start commands, or calling for the modkill or replacement of another player. While we understand mafia can be an intense experience, and players may wish to discuss in-game moderation decisions with the gamerunner, once a gamerunner makes a decision, please respect it as final.
Click to expand...
Please remember to adhere to this rule and do not attempt to moderate the game in the game thread. PM the gamerunner/gamewatchers if you have an issue or a question during an ongoing game.

How should we handle ‘slips’ going forward?
For context, a scum player in mario kart mafia accidentally posted in a previous game’s mafia thread. A town player noticed it, quoted it in OM, and then contacted the gamerunner. Both players continued with the game but the town player eventually revealed in the game thread what they saw, leading to the mafia player being voted out.
We’ve discussed this and have not been able to find a solution to the problem. It doesn’t seem fair to replace the Town player for a fault that was not their own and replacing the scum player does not solve the issue of the Town player having that knowledge. Should both players be replaced? Only one and not the other? Neither?

We added that using Era’s pronoun feature is encouraged but not required!
If the Vote Tool fails during the end of a Day Phase then the phase will not be extended.
A list of helpful resources was added to the OT under ‘Mentorship’
An ‘Upcoming Games’ section was added to the OT.
A list of games for newcomers to read was added to the OT. You can always suggest more for the list at any point!
The idea of a ‘Venting Buddy’ was shelved to be brought up later.



Huge thanks to all of our wonderful Gamerunners this season!
TearablePuns
Fanto
SalvaPot
Natiko
Geno

Thanks again to everyone for making this season as wonderful as it was! We all know how difficult 2020 was for many of us and we want to take a moment to say thank you for providing a little bit of entertainment and joy throughout a difficult year.
 
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Stuart444

Stuart444

Sawneeks said:
  1. This season, some members have raised objections to “lunch” as an alternative and we would like to ask folks to phase it out if possible. Tell your autocorrects.
Click to expand...

Some have objected to Lunch? Why O.o no one seemed that objected to it when we discussed it as a replacement for lynch in a previous review thread.

Also why is the review thread on OM? Normally it's on Era. Not that I mind, I'm just curious.
 
Zippedpinhead

Zippedpinhead

Zip it!
Does it have to be eliminate though? Eliminate is cold, electronic, and robotic.

Are there other words that we would want to use? Could we theme the elimination term to a game as appropriate (say we did an "among us" Mafia, could we use Ejected or a pirate mafia where the day end elimination term was "walk the plank"?

Obviously it would be used in conjunction with the normal term, but would it be allowed?


Overall, I think this season was pretty great, lots of long thread games which had good contributions. I think this is the first season In a long while where I participated in every single game!
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

ABLF
Stuart444 said:
Some have objected to Lunch? Why O.o no one seemed that objected to it when we discussed it as a replacement for lynch in a previous review thread.

Also why is the review thread on OM? Normally it's on Era. Not that I mind, I'm just curious.
Click to expand...
I was onboard with lunch at the beginning, but also I get where the complaints are coming from. Like, it's not uncommon for people trying to be clever or funny (and failing miserably) to use minor typos or homonyms to skirt around rules regarding sensitive terms. Lunch is very obviously a misspelling of lynch so it's still making reference to that word, like saying it but not really, and it feels like a half-step at best and malicious at worst.

Zippedpinhead said:
Does it have to be eliminate though? Eliminate is cold, electronic, and robotic.

Are there other words that we would want to use? Could we theme the elimination term to a game as appropriate (say we did an "among us" Mafia, could we use Ejected or a pirate mafia where the day end elimination term was "walk the plank"?

Obviously it would be used in conjunction with the normal term, but would it be allowed?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it'd be fun to theme it and I'm pretty sure that's partially the reason for not locking it down to just one term explicitly in the rules (also it literally says "or similar words as appropriate", which includes game theming). One of the examples that came up while discussing this was how in Animal Crossing Mafia, an elimination was called an eviction and it'd be fun to have that be an element of games in our community.
 
Fanto

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Sawneeks said:
How should we handle ‘slips’ going forward?
For context, a scum player in mario kart mafia accidentally posted in a previous game’s mafia thread. A town player noticed it, quoted it in OM, and then contacted the gamerunner. Both players continued with the game but the town player eventually revealed in the game thread what they saw, leading to the mafia player being voted out.
We’ve discussed this and have not been able to find a solution to the problem. It doesn’t seem fair to replace the Town player for a fault that was not their own and replacing the scum player does not solve the issue of the Town player having that knowledge. Should both players be replaced? Only one and not the other? Neither?
Click to expand...
In this specific situation, where it was a Scum player posting in an old game's thread, I think keeping only currently running games at the top of OM may have helped. In this case, the past two Mafia games were still at the top of OM, which likely lead to some unnecessary confusion.

In terms of how to handle it from a gamerunning perspective, I don't think there's much that can be done? There's not really a rule to apply to it. A slip's a slip. There's things we can do to make them less likely, but I don't think there's anything we can do once one happens but let it play out, as unfortunate as it may be.
 
Fanto

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Also, maybe we could get in the habit of locking old game threads once the new one is set to run?
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Zippedpinhead said:
Does it have to be eliminate though? Eliminate is cold, electronic, and robotic.

Are there other words that we would want to use? Could we theme the elimination term to a game as appropriate (say we did an "among us" Mafia, could we use Ejected or a pirate mafia where the day end elimination term was "walk the plank"?

Obviously it would be used in conjunction with the normal term, but would it be allowed?


Overall, I think this season was pretty great, lots of long thread games which had good contributions. I think this is the first season In a long while where I participated in every single game!
Click to expand...
For the rules, it seems best to choose a common term to refer to the end-of-day typical kill, but there's no reason to dictate how to theme games. I'm all about "ejected" and uh

maybe

we will see something like that this season

for reasons

who knows
 
turmoil7

turmoil7

Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
Sawneeks said:
We will adjust rule 26 to include all instances of rule-breaking. Rule 26 will now read: "If a player is replaced or modkilled due to any rule-breaking or being under the minimum post count limit, they will have end-game priority when signing up for a spot in their next game"
Click to expand...

I agree but I think the wording and intention there is confusing, I would change it to something like "[...], they will have same priority as players who reach endgame, as to not punish players who don't break the rules in their priority"

Sawneeks said:
Proposed change: add language to PMs when necessary indicating risk of modkill for gaming rule systems or game tools.
Click to expand...
Probably would be better to add it to the rules instead of depending on a explicit mention in the PM, to not burden the gamerunners with keeping track of yet another detail.

I agree with everything else
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

ABLF
Sawneeks said:
How should we handle ‘slips’ going forward?
For context, a scum player in mario kart mafia accidentally posted in a previous game’s mafia thread. A town player noticed it, quoted it in OM, and then contacted the gamerunner. Both players continued with the game but the town player eventually revealed in the game thread what they saw, leading to the mafia player being voted out.
We’ve discussed this and have not been able to find a solution to the problem. It doesn’t seem fair to replace the Town player for a fault that was not their own and replacing the scum player does not solve the issue of the Town player having that knowledge. Should both players be replaced? Only one and not the other? Neither?
Click to expand...
Luckily this isn't something that happens often and stuff like making sure the ongoing games are on top and locking old threads can help, but it's impossible to totally prevent it from happening, so it'd be good to have some standard procedure going forward.
Personally, I lean towards replacing the town player. Yes, it's not fair, yes, they would essentially be punished for being honest, but IMO the game comes first, these are games people have worked on and waited to see ran for months, and a slip is too disruptive to allow and it impacts all players instead of just the one that noticed.
 
EzekelRAGE

EzekelRAGE

*truffleshuffle*
1. Meh to me.
2. I understand @jman1954goat
Here is what he posted in game thread:

jman1954goat said:
If my my understanding is correct People want to stop using Lynch to get away from the Historical context of America's horrible treatment of My people.

For me and this is just one Black mans perspective that's no better or worse than other Black members who may feel differently I feel much worse when People use goofy other words for lynch instead of just saying lynch.

lynch has so much historical use outside of Black people and the first thing that comes to mind when seeing Lynch is usually pirates ,then Wild West Lynchings, also of course the Lynching innocent Black people. However when I see something like Lunch I feel instantly reminded of only White America's Brutal murder of People that look just like me and when people say lunch it feels people need to create fluffy terms to coddle me as if Black people somehow can't handle seeing the word Lynch.

once again I am just one Black member and others may feel different however I think the Black mafia members should be the ones to get together and say if lynch is ok to say and non black member's should not police others use of lynch.

(This is not directed at you Dr. Monkey I just quoting your post to Vent to the community)

TLDR: I feel most uncomfortable and reminded of the brutality Black people have faced when people say things like Lunch

just say Lynch people.
Click to expand...
jman1954goat said:
It just feels wierd being black and being told you can't say lynch anymore. Like i get the goal but I don't think lynch should be this banned word , that only reminds me of my of what america did to us more tbh

sorry for the derail
Click to expand...
jman1954goat said:
Like it feels like your giving more power to the racist pieces of shit that murder innocent Black people when you glorify there use of lynching more than the thousands of years lynch was used in other contexts

treat lynch like a normal word and you don't make those horrible people more important than the unimportanti insecure dumbfucks that they where.
Click to expand...

4. Cool

Slips:

The player that brings it to the game thread should be replaced. Bringing the info to the thread was intentional compared to a mistake on my end.

One of the rules of the game is:
7. Please do not refer to, or discuss, player activity outside of this thread, for the sake of the game’s integrity. This includes discussing circumstances around player replacement.
Click to expand...
If the slip happened in a ERA thread, would he be able to mention it?(legit question)
Or is that rule specifically for situations like zeke is postin in thread a on era and not posting in the game thread?

like was brought up before, changing the ongoing games and completed games helped. Locking game threads may help to. But my situation was kinda uniqe in that both me and launch were scum in one piece and double dash.

This is like the first time something like this has happened isnt it?
 
SalvaPot

SalvaPot

YEAH
Fireblend said:
Luckily this isn't something that happens often and stuff like making sure the ongoing games are on top and locking old threads can help, but it's impossible to totally prevent it from happening, so it'd be good to have some standard procedure going forward.
Personally, I lean towards replacing the town player. Yes, it's not fair, yes, they would essentially be punished for being honest, but IMO the game comes first, these are games people have worked on and waited to see ran for months, and a slip is too disruptive to allow and it impacts all players instead of just the one that noticed.
Click to expand...
In this case you are encouraging the town player to just reveal the fact before they get replaced, what then? The slipper shouldn't slip in the first place.
 
Hedin

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
1. I started using lunch because I liked it better than lynch when I got to this community but if people are uncomfortable with that then I have no problem with changing it up. I would agree with Zipped that I would prefer a better term than eliminate though.

2. With regards to slips, the person who catches the slip (whether it be town or scum) definitely should not be punished. They weren't the one who messed up so they shouldn't have to be replaced or anything. I think Salva did it right by notifying the gamerunner about the issue. I also think Salva commented on it so that Zeke knew about it already, but if the person who finds the slip doesn't say anything then the gamerunner definitely should not notify the slipper. Zeke was a good sport about it but it would have been easy for him to off Salva before Salva could even say anything about the slip.

3. I only have two seasons under my belt but to me the previous season had a much better balance in terms of game sizes than this past one. I know games are ready when they are ready and there is probably some sort of priority order on them but I felt like this past season had too many large games that involved a lot of the community and didn't allow natural breaks during the season. I think there were three games with 30+ players in them this season that required most of the active community to play for them to start, and I enjoyed them all, but they can be a lot and I had a sense of a lot of people just getting burned out as the season went along.
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Fanto said:
Here, referring to Zeke posting in the old Scum thread on accident. If it were locked, he wouldn't have been able to.
Click to expand...
This is a fair idea. Let's see if anyone can think of any drawbacks. I can't, really.
turmoil7 said:
I agree but I think the wording and intention there is confusing, I would change it to something like "[...], they will have same priority as players who reach endgame, as to not punish players who don't break the rules in their priority"


Probably would be better to add it to the rules instead of depending on a explicit mention in the PM, to not burden the gamerunners with keeping track of yet another detail.

I agree with everything else
Click to expand...
I like both these suggestions!
SalvaPot said:
We can just call it "voted out".
Click to expand...
That too.
 
weemadarthur

weemadarthur

Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
I had expected salva [who saw the scum slip] to be replaced as a default modding behavior based on that one really old game where the town player somehow saw the scum thread or sommit [harry potter maybe?] and volunteered to be replaced. I don’t have a problem with them NOT being replaced when it’s not their fault, but as a third party in that happening...it’s not much fun to play when a slip out-of-game is used to find scum. but maybe some people find a W more fun than anything else, so i’m not the only opinion that matters on that.

It may kinda suck for the honest player, but things happen.

Eliminate is too long and frankly hard to spell. Vote out makes more sense since vote is the already default command.
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Hedin said:
3. I only have two seasons under my belt but to me the previous season had a much better balance in terms of game sizes than this past one. I know games are ready when they are ready and there is probably some sort of priority order on them but I felt like this past season had too many large games that involved a lot of the community and didn't allow natural breaks during the season. I think there were three games with 30+ players in them this season that required most of the active community to play for them to start, and I enjoyed them all, but they can be a lot and I had a sense of a lot of people just getting burned out as the season went along.
Click to expand...
Yeah, we struggled a lot with that when we were putting the season together but as you say, it often comes down to just... what's ready when it's ready. But we probably should have broken things up with a mini. Lesson learned. I think partially it was not just size, but that three games in a row were ALSO mentally taxing, with a lot to keep up with.

People really enjoy designing large, unusual games, but we need some small-medium more normal games, too!
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
weemadarthur said:
Eliminate is too long and frankly hard to spell. Vote out makes more sense since vote is the already default command.
Click to expand...
We're just talking about for the rules here, though. You never have to type out eliminate if you don't want to!
 
Alexem

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I think that part of the adoption of 'lunch' as a substitute for 'lynch' was down to the fact that it's a quick word to type (aside from the fact that it's a one letter difference). If other terms are to catch on, it might help if they're shorter side - 'eliminate' and 'voted out' are good for formal statements (like rules and announcements), but some players may find them a bit long to type out in-game. I've personally used phrases like 'hit' or 'whack' from time to time.

No matter what people prefer to use, it's important to keep a distinction between vote-based eliminations and factional actions - 'kill' would probably still be more useful for the latter.
 
Fanto

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Hedin said:
3. I only have two seasons under my belt but to me the previous season had a much better balance in terms of game sizes than this past one. I know games are ready when they are ready and there is probably some sort of priority order on them but I felt like this past season had too many large games that involved a lot of the community and didn't allow natural breaks during the season. I think there were three games with 30+ players in them this season that required most of the active community to play for them to start, and I enjoyed them all, but they can be a lot and I had a sense of a lot of people just getting burned out as the season went along.
Click to expand...
I do agree about this, but your assumption is correct pretty much, it was just the games that were ready to run. I could have ran my Knives Out game, which is a very smol game, but opted to run my big one instead, so that definitely added to the lopsidedness of the roster sizes this season.
 
weemadarthur

weemadarthur

Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
heymonkey said:
We're just talking about for the rules here, though. You never have to type out eliminate if you don't want to!
Click to expand...
I still think voted out is better in rules; eliminate has the subtext of meaning one cannot win anymore. Also some games have resurrection mechanics and using language that would conflict with weird games just means you have to change your rule wording for weird games. It’s poor long-term planning.
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

ABLF
SalvaPot said:
In this case you are encouraging the town player to just reveal the fact before they get replaced, what then? The slipper shouldn't slip in the first place.
Click to expand...
I'd trust the town player to play honorably and understand that they're breaking the design of the game by doing so though. This is like saying town players are encouraged to seek ways to communicate in secret outside the game without the gamerunner's knowledge, these games operate in large part through honor codes.
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

My best friend is a monkey
1. Very happy to read this. I'm good with whatever term as long as we're avoiding lynch. Living in the US with a black son has made that word a little uncomfortable, especially knowing victims of hate crimes, but I've not really said much because one person in a community is still just one person. So, I'm glad to see we're phasing it out!

Fanto said:
In this specific situation, where it was a Scum player posting in an old game's thread, I think keeping only currently running games at the top of OM may have helped. In this case, the past two Mafia games were still at the top of OM, which likely lead to some unnecessary confusion.
Click to expand...
I think you have to be right here. If these old games are locked and moved, we probably completely eliminate this issue, right?
 
Hedin

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
Fireblend said:
I'd trust the town player to play honorably and understand that they're breaking the design of the game by doing so though. This is like saying town players are encouraged to seek ways to communicate in secret outside the game without the gamerunner's knowledge, these games operate in large part through honor codes.
Click to expand...

The person who noticed the slip is not the one who broke the design, the person who slipped did. I just find it shitty that the person who caught the slip is punished more than the person who slipped.
 
Zippedpinhead

Zippedpinhead

Zip it!
weemadarthur said:
I had expected salva [who saw the scum slip] to be replaced as a default modding behavior based on that one really old game where the town player somehow saw the scum thread or sommit [harry potter maybe?] and volunteered to be replaced. I don’t have a problem with them NOT being replaced when it’s not their fault, but as a third party in that happening...it’s not much fun to play when a slip out-of-game is used to find scum. but maybe some people find a W more fun than anything else, so i’m not the only opinion that matters on that.

It may kinda suck for the honest player, but things happen.

Eliminate is too long and frankly hard to spell. Vote out makes more sense since vote is the already default command.
Click to expand...
It was Harry Potter Mafia, During the first day of HP mafia I discovered that on the Old Outer Site you could see all posts increase (as well as last log ins) even if those posts or log ins were to hidden threads. I brought it up to the mods and everyone agreed (myself and I think the two game runners) that I should be subbed out. because even if the information I found was incorrect (It had the majority of the scum team in my list but also a few others) the thought was that my game would be completely blinded by the information I knew.

It wasn't as clear cut as zeke's slip (I found unintentional information) plus it was earlier in the game (subbing me out was easy) and another game had just been canned due to I'm still not sure what (OG werewolf on the old place) so I was able to get into dream werewolf remix and continue playing.

With this game we had already exhausted all subs, so while it was similar the circumstances were different.

TLDR: moderation is hard, and I am very glad others are good at it.
 
Faddy

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I don't mind what we change lynch to as long as it isn't lunch. Because how do you explain lunch to a new person without starting from lynch.

Imo we should the best few suggestions here and have a poll to pick the new language. At least in that case there is wider community visibility and co-operation in the change. And it will help make everyone aware that a change is happening.
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

ABLF
Hedin said:
The person who noticed the slip is not the one who broke the design, the person who slipped did. I just find it shitty that the person who caught the slip is punished more than the person who slipped.
Click to expand...
I mean, I find it shitty too. I'd still replace them because their knowledge is what breaks the game. I'm just giving my opinion here!
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
weemadarthur said:
I still think voted out is better in rules; eliminate has the subtext of meaning one cannot win anymore. Also some games have resurrection mechanics and using language that would conflict with weird games just means you have to change your rule wording for weird games. It’s poor long-term planning.
Click to expand...
These are great points.
Faddy said:
I don't mind what we change lynch to as long as it isn't lunch. Because how do you explain lunch to a new person without starting from lynch.

Imo we should the best few suggestions here and have a poll to pick the new language. At least in that case there is wider community visibility and co-operation in the change. And it will help make everyone aware that a change is happening.
Click to expand...
That works, too. I'm not fussy about what we choose.
 
heymonkey

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Vincent Alexander said:
1. Very happy to read this. I'm good with whatever term as long as we're avoiding lynch. Living in the US with a black son has made that word a little uncomfortable, especially knowing victims of hate crimes, but I've not really said much because one person in a community is still just one person. So, I'm glad to see we're phasing it out!
Click to expand...
I think the hate crime issue is what really seals it for me.

In the last several years, as we see more and more hateful, bigoted assholes moving into positions of power all over the world, we're seeing more reinforcement of hate and more hate crimes. So while we can go back and forth on the racial ties of "lynch" and whether it's better to say it or not in those terms, for Americans, the global reality is that it feels... for me at least... like making light of a very specific and very hateful action. We can joke about "killing" because we are all people who play games and that's normalized for us. We can eject, vote out, yeet, defenestrate, throw into the volcano, and murder the hell out of our friends and high five after, but when there are political figures calling for others to be hanged or put in front of of a firing squad on social media like it's a normal practice, like that's just how you handle dissent... those specifics in games really kinda kill the fun for me. It's a jarring juxtaposition.

I don't want to speak for anyone. But speaking for me, I hate it.

And honestly, "lynching" a werewolf also seems like it's maybe not super effective? I mean think about the logistics.
 
weemadarthur

weemadarthur

Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
Hedin said:
The person who noticed the slip is not the one who broke the design, the person who slipped did. I just find it shitty that the person who caught the slip is punished more than the person who slipped.
Click to expand...
It is unfortunate. But it’s also not a punishment. Not deliberately anyway. It’s a nod to game integrity.

the game with multiple users’ needs outweighs the single user’s needs?
 
Muffin

Muffin

is being held hostage by Sammi
2. As far as I thought we used "lunch" because it wasnt exactly "lynch" but preserved common game terms like lylo or mylo. In that regard changing to other terms seems cumbersome to me. If other people take issue with it, there's no helping changing it, but I cant think of a good term myself. I still have trouble adjusting to the lunch term myself.

99. The Bat Computer is clearly an essential Mafia tool. :eyes:
 
EzekelRAGE

EzekelRAGE

*truffleshuffle*
Hedin said:
The person who noticed the slip is not the one who broke the design, the person who slipped did. I just find it shitty that the person who caught the slip is punished more than the person who slipped.
Click to expand...
But in this situation, bringing it to the thread is the issue imo. You shouldn't punish the person for seeing it, but they shouldnt be able to bring it to the thread. If we can't comment on any other player activity outside of the currently ongoing thread, why should a slip be any different?
 
Chuggernaut

Chuggernaut

HONK HONK MF
I always took the “Don’t discuss outside game activity” rule to be more about not saying stuff like “I see you’ve talking about the new season of Arrow on Era instead of playing mafia. Are you scum, hmmmm?” and less about not bringing up when a player accidentally posts something in the wrong place. Punishing a player for seeing a slip just doesn’t the correct thing to do here. The easiest solutions for dealing with slips is just not to slip.
 
weemadarthur

weemadarthur

Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
Lunch was always a technology joke, it stemmed from real autocorrect corrections and then was adopted for lulz.

if we are desperate to maintain the L, i’ll thesaurize.
 
EzekelRAGE

EzekelRAGE

*truffleshuffle*
TheChuggernaut said:
I always took the “Don’t discuss outside game activity” rule to be more about not saying stuff like “I see you’ve talking about the new season of Arrow on Era instead of playing mafia. Are you scum, hmmmm?” and less about not bringing up when a player accidentally posts something in the wrong place. Punishing a player for seeing a slip just doesn’t the correct thing to do here. The easiest solutions for dealing with slips is just not to slip.
Click to expand...
Telling a player to not discuss it isnt punishing them. Why are people saying it's punishing?
 
Chuggernaut

Chuggernaut

HONK HONK MF
EzekelRAGE said:
Telling a player to not discuss it isnt punishing them. Why are people saying it's punishing?
Click to expand...

Because that players reads are going to be colored once they see the slip. Having that player just sit on information that they shouldn’t know because someone else messed up isn’t fun and it’s going to make for a frustrating experience for them.
 
lokiduck

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Fireblend said:
Luckily this isn't something that happens often and stuff like making sure the ongoing games are on top and locking old threads can help, but it's impossible to totally prevent it from happening, so it'd be good to have some standard procedure going forward.
Personally, I lean towards replacing the town player. Yes, it's not fair, yes, they would essentially be punished for being honest, but IMO the game comes first, these are games people have worked on and waited to see ran for months, and a slip is too disruptive to allow and it impacts all players instead of just the one that noticed.
Click to expand...
I agree with this sentiment from my old mentor and what others have said.

In my personal opinion the player who witnesses the slip should be replaced out but not lose their priority for future games because ultimately it wasn't their fault, but they need to be replaced out for game integrity. That way we don't have to worry about the play revealing the info to other players and the game can continue.

It sucks for the player who witnessed the slip since it was the slippers fault, but I feel this replacement not affecting their future priority would help make it more okay while making sure the game seems fair. Hell we can could even make it that they have higher priority for a future game of their choice since they reported the slip to the game runner.

As for what word to use instead of Lunch/Lynch I'm a fan of something like vote out since it's shorter than eliminate.

I do like the idea tho of game runners changing it based on the flavor tho. Peoples can be allowed to use whatever word we pick and whatever the flavor word is for that game.

In either case >>; I will have to go and update my role PMs for my games coming out because I used lunch.
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

My best friend is a monkey
Random Question!

Does this place every do one-night mafia games? Like....get a group of folks together in a forum or a discord chat to play quick ones?
 
EzekelRAGE

EzekelRAGE

*truffleshuffle*
TheChuggernaut said:
Because that players reads are going to be colored once they see the slip. Having that player just sit on information that they shouldn’t know because someone else messed up isn’t fun and it’s going to make for a frustrating experience for them.
Click to expand...
How is it punishing them though?

Let it color their reads. They know scum, now use ingame info to prove it. I fully expected SP to push my lynch once I let him live. Didnt have a problem with him going hard on the fake doc angle.
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

ABLF
Vincent Alexander said:
Random Question!

Does this place every do one-night mafia games? Like....get a group of folks together in a forum or a discord chat to play quick ones?
Click to expand...
We have a couple times played mafia on Discord, and there's also ONUW which can be played on a single 48 hour phase, neither of which has happened in a while.
 
Alexem

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Faddy said:
I don't mind what we change lynch to as long as it isn't lunch. Because how do you explain lunch to a new person without starting from lynch.
Click to expand...
This is another good point about 'lunch'. As well as the inevitability of having to explain the connotations to newcomers, it also puts an expectation on potential new players who might be reading along with a game for the first time to figure out a community in-joke by themselves - it's the sort of thing that might make us look too exclusive to someone who's considering joining in.
 
weemadarthur

weemadarthur

Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
Vincent Alexander said:
Random Question!

Does this place every do one-night mafia games? Like....get a group of folks together in a forum or a discord chat to play quick ones?
Click to expand...
Yes, when someone organizes it. Fireblend was even working on a discord bot. There’s a dead server you can join and @ him until he kicks you.
 
Natiko

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
heymonkey said:
These are great points.

That works, too. I'm not fussy about what we choose.
Click to expand...
What happened to championing DESTROY?

TheChuggernaut said:
I always took the “Don’t discuss outside game activity” rule to be more about not saying stuff like “I see you’ve talking about the new season of Arrow on Era instead of playing mafia. Are you scum, hmmmm?” and less about not bringing up when a player accidentally posts something in the wrong place. Punishing a player for seeing a slip just doesn’t the correct thing to do here. The easiest solutions for dealing with slips is just not to slip.
Click to expand...
This is absolutely what the rule was created for. It was designed to discourage people from going "Aha, user so and so is actively posting on the forum but avoiding playing Mafia. That must mean they're laying low because SCUUUUUM!"

TheChuggernaut said:
Because that players reads are going to be colored once they see the slip. Having that player just sit on information that they shouldn’t know because someone else messed up isn’t fun and it’s going to make for a frustrating experience for them.
Click to expand...
For the record, I did not lobby for the chain of events that occurred in MK. Salva shared that the slip occurred and I immediately went to erase all evidence of it occurring. After that, I waited a bit to see if anyone else came forward with having seen it. Once no one did, I told Salva I was not going to forcibly replace him due to another player's slip. It was up to Salva to volunteer to leave or to reveal the info to the thread. Where I think this got frustrating from my (and player's perspectives) is that this info was sat on until days of playing later when Salva got frustrated and revealed it anyways. If Salva comes out with the info instantly I don't think we see quite the same level of discomfort.

I get what Zeke is trying to argue, but we have seen other slips of this nature before - it's just that frequently it's in another one of the active game threads instead of a previous game. I think locking the previous game threads once the next game starts is a sensible and easy step we can take to reduce the odds of this occurring. I won't lie - I'm disappointed that Salva played the info how he did because it turned into a weirder, more uncomfortable event than it would have if he had just revealed instantly. That said, I still stand by my decision and don't think Salva should have been forcibly replaced.

I also have seen people floating out other examples of mistakes that forced players to have to be replaced, I think the most recent one was actually Gorlok in...hell, I don't remember what game. Game of Thrones maybe? House of Horrors? I want to say it was a game I ran... not sure. Essentially he was able to see that user's reaction counts were raising I think, which signaled to him that said players had a private chat of some sort. Yes, in that instance we asked Gorlok to drop out but to me that's a very different situation. That was Gorlok knowing essentially the entire scum team due to a mistake WE made setting the game up. It wasn't a player actively playing mafia and making a mistake of their own accord that exposed them. I don't know that there's always a one size fits all answer here. If Zeke had made this same exact slip but named literally every mafia pair I probably would have forced Salva to replace out because it would blow up the ENTIRE game. But what if Zeke had made said mistake but done it in the game thread? There are some situations that are so bad you can't fix, some that are so bad that you can fix in an unpleasant ways, and some that just aren't bad enough to merit doing the unpleasant thing in my opinion.

Also, whoever said to just add a general game rule about defying gamerunner restrictions in order to prove the existence of them - I fully support that idea.
 
Hedin

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
I think Salva had a mitigating factor in coming out in that he remained silent at first and the Zeke posted the gif not thinking Salva would break and well, he broke. He was in a bad spot where Zeke knew that Salva knew which made him a target but also got taunted a little bit by the fact that he knew and was keeping quiet.

Also, on one-night mafia games I do know a few people tried to play Among Us a few times as well as another option.
 
Faddy

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Vincent Alexander said:
Random Question!

Does this place every do one-night mafia games? Like....get a group of folks together in a forum or a discord chat to play quick ones?
Click to expand...

i keep meaning to try and round people up to play a game on mafia.gg

Honestly 100 times better than discord for games. it has private rooms so no one would have to deal with the hassle of public games. The site is very good.
 
Faddy

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Muffin said:
2. As far as I thought we used "lunch" because it wasnt exactly "lynch" but preserved common game terms like lylo or mylo. In that regard changing to other terms seems cumbersome to me. If other people take issue with it, there's no helping changing it, but I cant think of a good term myself. I still have trouble adjusting to the lunch term myself.

99. The Bat Computer is clearly an essential Mafia tool. :eyes:
Click to expand...

If we choose Vote Out then MYLO is change to VIAL. Vote incorrectly and lose.

I'll slide this in as agenda point 98. slightly more important than the bat computer.

Keep the link to the OT in the Game Rules up to date. E.g. the one in Mario Kart Double Dash is pointing to a thread that is many seasons old.
 
EzekelRAGE

EzekelRAGE

*truffleshuffle*
Natiko said:
This is absolutely what the rule was created for. It was designed to discourage people from going "Aha, user so and so is actively posting on the forum but avoiding playing Mafia. That must mean they're laying low because SCUUUUUM!"
Click to expand...
Ok that clears my question in post 15 then.

Natiko said:
I get what Zeke is trying to argue, but we have seen other slips of this nature before - it's just that frequently it's in another one of the active game threads instead of a previous game. I think locking the previous game threads once the next game starts is a sensible and easy step we can take to reduce the odds of this occurring. I won't lie - I'm disappointed that Salva played the info how he did because it turned into a weirder, more uncomfortable event than it would have if he had just revealed instantly. That said, I still stand by my decision and don't think Salva should have been forcibly replaced.
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I think that is what it was for me. Also I also agreed with SP not being replaced.

Hedin said:
I think Salva had a mitigating factor in coming out in that he remained silent at first and the Zeke posted the gif not thinking Salva would break and well, he broke. He was in a bad spot where Zeke knew that Salva knew which made him a target but also got taunted a little bit by the fact that he knew and was keeping quiet.

Also, on one-night mafia games I do know a few people tried to play Among Us a few times as well as another option.
Click to expand...

200.gif

:truffleshuffle: :truffleshuffle: :truffleshuffle: :truffleshuffle: :truffleshuffle:
 
lokiduck

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Hedin said:
I think Salva had a mitigating factor in coming out in that he remained silent at first and the Zeke posted the gif not thinking Salva would break and well, he broke. He was in a bad spot where Zeke knew that Salva knew which made him a target but also got taunted a little bit by the fact that he knew and was keeping quiet.

Also, on one-night mafia games I do know a few people tried to play Among Us a few times as well as another option.
Click to expand...
Doesn't that prove that Salva should have been replaced out then so he wouldn't be taunted into revealing? It's not his fault he saw the slip, but the reveal shouldn't have happened.
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Stuart444 said:
Some have objected to Lunch? Why O.o no one seemed that objected to it when we discussed it as a replacement for lynch in a previous review thread.

Also why is the review thread on OM? Normally it's on Era. Not that I mind, I'm just curious.
Click to expand...
I have more detailed thoughts coming later but Lunch is the absolute worst option. We should be saying Some replacement option or just saying lynch.


lunch is goofy as fuck and reminds me of people saying Ninja instead nigga. If your saying lunch it's directly saying lynch just censored. Either you think lynch is ok to say or you don't. If your one of the people who don't wanna say lynch don't be lazy pick a different words. If you think lynch is ok say lynch.

lokiduck said:
In either case >>; I will have to go and update my role PMs for my games coming out because I used lunch.
Click to expand...
Please do I have never felt more uncomfortable on era as I have reading lunch.

Lynch has other uses outside of murdering Black people. But seeing lunch is a strong reminder only of racism and I feel week and small as if other users need to "protect" me from the word Lynch.

Sorry if that did not make much sense just free typing my feelings.
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Someone seeing someone else's slip is not there fault at all they should not be replaced.

If you replace the person who say the slip you 100% have to immediately replace the person who made the slip too it's only fair the person who made the slip is the source of the problem.

I think a game runner needs to immediately mention the slip themselves in a red post to avoid pressure on the players
 
Sawneeks

Sawneeks

little green dog
turmoil7 said:
I agree but I think the wording and intention there is confusing, I would change it to something like "[...], they will have same priority as players who reach endgame, as to not punish players who don't break the rules in their priority"


Probably would be better to add it to the rules instead of depending on a explicit mention in the PM, to not burden the gamerunners with keeping track of yet another detail.

I agree with everything else
Click to expand...
I've considered putting it into the rules but I'm not sure we could write something universal that would cover each instance. Plus I'm not sure how many players actively check the rules and it may not be clear that your role has a modkill threat in it if you break it.
Hedin said:
3. I only have two seasons under my belt but to me the previous season had a much better balance in terms of game sizes than this past one. I know games are ready when they are ready and there is probably some sort of priority order on them but I felt like this past season had too many large games that involved a lot of the community and didn't allow natural breaks during the season. I think there were three games with 30+ players in them this season that required most of the active community to play for them to start, and I enjoyed them all, but they can be a lot and I had a sense of a lot of people just getting burned out as the season went along.
Click to expand...
We will keep that in mind! Monkey already gave the more detailed answer but we do try and space games out by player size and complexity to avoid this kind of feeling. Just a little tough sometimes when the building blocks are all 30 players :p
TearablePuns said:
Dang, i could have sworn i ran a game this season
Click to expand...
!!!

Sorry, Puns. I fixed it ;;
Faddy said:
I don't mind what we change lynch to as long as it isn't lunch. Because how do you explain lunch to a new person without starting from lynch.

Imo we should the best few suggestions here and have a poll to pick the new language. At least in that case there is wider community visibility and co-operation in the change. And it will help make everyone aware that a change is happening.
Click to expand...
I like this idea. I'll make another post detailing what suggestions we have so far and when we can have a vote.
Muffin said:
99. The Bat Computer is clearly an essential Mafia tool. :eyes:
Click to expand...
Once it has been proved to be correct then it can be considered :eyes:
Faddy said:
If we choose Vote Out then MYLO is change to VIAL. Vote incorrectly and lose.

I'll slide this in as agenda point 98. slightly more important than the bat computer.

Keep the link to the OT in the Game Rules up to date. E.g. the one in Mario Kart Double Dash is pointing to a thread that is many seasons old.
Click to expand...
Ah, reminds me I wanted to make something that will be posted in new Modchats. Some gamerunner just copy/paste the rules from very old games when the updated rules or in OM. Thank you for pointing it out.
 
Sawneeks

Sawneeks

little green dog
What term should we replace lynch with in our Rules/Documents?

Suggested alternatives:
  1. Voted Out
  2. Elimination
  3. Kill
  4. Removed
  5. End
  6. Ejected

If you want to suggest a term to use please do so within the next
tuqr9i1uq4


After this timer runs out I will make a poll so we can decide what term we want to use.
 
Hecht

Hecht

Like dubstep for my bootyhole
Didn't really watch the games but saw the slip up. Locking old scum threads would be a feasible and imo "perfect" solution. I do not see any downsides. Reminds me of when CornBurrito posted in an old scum thread way back when we used QuickTopic.
 
Faddy

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I think of the current suggestions Voted Out is the best.

It does the job for the rules and is plain enough to allow game runners to add their own flavour if they want to.
 
Fireblend

Fireblend

ABLF
I personally like elimination being the generic term (which again, could be overridden by game runners to match their game's theme) mostly because its the term other communities have been moving to (mafia universe's wiki redirects lynch to the page for "elimination", for example). That said I'll live with whatever we ultimately choose.
 
Alexem

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Voted out sounds to me like the clearest cut for documentation and rules - there's no ambiguity to it at all.
 
turmoil7

turmoil7

Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
Sawneeks said:
I've considered putting it into the rules but I'm not sure we could write something universal that would cover each instance. Plus I'm not sure how many players actively check the rules and it may not be clear that your role has a modkill threat in it if you break it.
Click to expand...
Would something like:
"In general, do not enact forbidden behavior or encourage others to. For example encouraging a player who says them can't vote to "prove it" is not allowed. This can apply to any other restriction a game may have unless stated otherwise by the role or gamerunner"

not do it?

Fireblend said:
because its the term other communities have been moving to (mafia universe's wiki redirects lynch to the page for "elimination", for example)
Click to expand...
this is my case for "eliminate" too. Although "voted out" would be self explanatory and could also work
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
I say. "Voted out"/" Vote out" . It is immediately distinctive from any other kill. And new players need no explanation.

I like having terms based specifically on theme of game as well. "Evicted" during an animal crossing game like someone pointed out.

plus survivor is a great show.
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
EzekelRAGE said:
How is it punishing them though?

Let it color their reads. They know scum, now use ingame info to prove it. I fully expected SP to push my lynch once I let him live. Didnt have a problem with him going hard on the fake doc angle.
Click to expand...
I agree with chuggs on this one The person who read the slip is 100% punished knowing the knowledge.
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Natiko said:
Also, whoever said to just add a general game rule about defying gamerunner restrictions in order to prove the existence of them - I fully support that idea.
Click to expand...
Yep fully support. The more rules in place to stop people breaking the game whether as a tactic to win or through frustrating, the better.
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Reading through change 1 and 2 I have no problem with either

I want to reinforce my other statement by making it clear change 2 Not saying Lunch is way more important to me than rule 1.

Lunch almost always makes me uncomfortable and somehow feels more racist (I know this is nobodies intent also I'm sure many were just autocorrect anyway.)

lynch did not usually make me uncomfortable but changing the common game phrasing is a good idea.
 
Ephidel

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
I don't feel entirely comfortable weighing in while I'm still in my lurker phase but... here's me weighing in.
Feel free to disregard my comments if you think I'm overstepping.


Game integrity is important.


Mistakes happen. Sometimes you have to roll with them, but I agree with those saying there should be systems in place to mitigate the damage.

Unfortunately, the person who sees it is the damage.
They're tainted from that point on.
Their reads aren't the same.

I've been puzzling my way through your last couple of games while I've been watching you folks play. I've enjoyed doing so.
Would I ever have ended up where I did reading through HvV3 if I hadn't read that exchange in spec that revealed someone's alignment before ducking out of it? I'll never know. Having the knowledge, I could see some signs that might have pointed that way, but I don't know if I'd ever have decided they did otherwise. At least not anywhere near as soon.

Knowing is different than suspecting.
When you're looking at it and basing your game on information that others don't have and that you can't reveal, at best your theories might look slightly out there. At worst you end up looking outright scummy yourself -- after all, they're the party that usually has more information.

Some players would probably love that but I imagine a larger portion would find that disconnect increasingly frustrating.

At that point the game becomes less fun for them too. Nobody wants that. Everyone is doing this for fun.
Or sadomasochism.
But probably fun.

Salva (sorry Salva) is evidence of this from both perspectives.
It's not his fault he ended up in that position and it's not his fault he snapped. But he did.
The frustration grew and he tipped over the edge before he could step back and re-approach Natiko and go "I'm sorry, I was wrong about being able to sit on this"
The knowledge ultimately broke his enjoyment of the game, and the information dump that resulted broke the integrity of the game.


Obviously the hope is that in future that won't happen again, so it won't necessarily be something you need to actively pre-emptively legislate... but you're here you talking about whether or not you can or should, so I think you have to be trying to minimalise future impact


The first step is to make it harder to do.
To that end, I agree that locking old lures scum threads when starting a new game looks like a good idea.


Then you assume it happens again anyway. In the mafia OT instead of the game thread. In a gossip thread. In a review thread. In someone's completely non existent doodle thread because for some reason you have an art forum with no art in it.


What causes the least disruption to the game state?
There's only one answer.
Covering up the information.


From where I'm sitting that's the only way I can see it.


The affected player should be substituted.
It's the cleanest way.
Game integrity has to win out.


So if I were writing the rule, I would do so from that perspective... but also with a how to handle a "whoops, this mistake was EVEN BIGGER SOMEHOW" corollary attached to it. Obviously not something you ever expect or want to use but something that's there for the sake of transparency if nothing else.

Something like

To preserve the integrity of the game should you come into contact with game information beyond your normal purview it is requested that you refrain from sharing it with other players and instead report it to the gamerunner as soon as possible.
In the event that the information in question could negatively affect the game's continuance you may be requested to substitute out. Should this occur then you will not lose your priority for future games.

Should information be reported by multiple players before it can be fixed, removed, or otherwise altered -- such that replacing the affected parties would result in abnormal strain on the game's replacement list or otherwise negatively affect the game's continuance -- the gamerunner reserves the right to request that the affected parties play on with a gag order.

Should the information in question prove impossible to contain people are asked to play on as sensibly as possible.


(I phrased it as "may be requested to substitute" to allow for instances of the best choice for game continuance would probably to let it drop.
For example in HvV3 Aeleus technically had information that could techically have fallen under "beyond their purview" as well but by the point that was realised within the game it would have been too late to mitigate it. Subbing them out at that point would have gained nothing.
I also assume that "if not you pray town wins" comment that got quoted by Sorian in that game was a ... similar instance, as someone else also mentioned it later. Obviously the easiest way to deal with that wouldn't be subbing Sorian out because that would just make it more obvious. The answer would be side-eyeing him and hoping nobody else paid too much attention to it.)


Yes, my suggestion sucks for the person who sees a slip because they want to play but obviously the hope is that after they take a step back they'd agree that it's for the best overall.
 
Ephidel

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
.
Sawneeks said:
[*]Proposed change: add language to PMs when necessary indicating risk of modkill for gaming rule systems or game tools.
Click to expand...
turmoil7 said:
Probably would be better to add it to the rules instead of depending on a explicit mention in the PM, to not burden the gamerunners with keeping track of yet another detail.
Click to expand...
Sawneeks said:
I've considered putting it into the rules but I'm not sure we could write something universal that would cover each instance. Plus I'm not sure how many players actively check the rules and it may not be clear that your role has a modkill threat in it if you break it.
Click to expand...
turmoil7 said:
Would something like:
"In general, do not enact forbidden behavior or encourage others to. For example encouraging a player who says them can't vote to "prove it" is not allowed. This can apply to any other restriction a game may have unless stated otherwise by the role or gamerunner"

not do it?
Click to expand...

Tack it on to 13?

13. Players should not perform moderator actions in game, including using highlight text outside of voting, or issuing day-end/start commands, or calling for the modkill or replacement of another player. While we understand mafia can be an intense experience, and players may wish to discuss in-game moderation decisions with the gamerunner, once a gamerunner makes a decision, please respect it as final.
Encouraging other players to submit false or illegal highlighted game actions is also forbidden.
Players should not submit, or request that others submit, restricted commands for the purposes of proving statuses that affect them or restrictions they may be under.
 
The Bear

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
I think all of the suggested laternatives are pretty good. Voted out makes most sense from rulebook pov.

Rest of the proposed changes sound good.

Not sure what the best way to handle slips are. The slip 100% wasn't Salva's fault, but revelaing it did expose 1/3 of the game's scum and most likely drastically alternated the flow of the game. If I'm honest, I didn't feel like town had outright earned victory in the end because of how major shift it was.
 
Sorian

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
heymonkey said:
We're just talking about for the rules here, though. You never have to type out eliminate if you don't want to!
Click to expand...

Reading down so maybe this was addressed but yes, it does need to be easily written out because people can still vote no lynch. Just because we never vote for it doesn’t mean the option isn’t actually there.
 
Chuggernaut

Chuggernaut

HONK HONK MF
The Bear said:
I think all of the suggested laternatives are pretty good. Voted out makes most sense from rulebook pov.

Rest of the proposed changes sound good.

Not sure what the best way to handle slips are. The slip 100% wasn't Salva's fault, but revelaing it did expose 1/3 of the game's scum and most likely drastically alternated the flow of the game. If I'm honest, I didn't feel like town had outright earned victory in the end because of how major shift it was.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don’t know if that did dramatically change the game. Unless scum got really lucky with that day where no one’s role PM was flipped, Zeke was on borrowed time with LP and Blarg there
 
Faddy

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Sorian said:
Reading down so maybe this was addressed but yes, it does need to be easily written out because people can still vote no lynch. Just because we never vote for it doesn’t mean the option isn’t actually there.
Click to expand...

No Lynch should be changed to Vote: No one
 
The Bear

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
TheChuggernaut said:
Honestly, I don’t know if that did dramatically change the game. Unless scum got really lucky with that day where no one’s role PM was flipped, Zeke was on borrowed time with LP and Blarg there
Click to expand...

You are 100% correct! But the way the info camenout made it feel lot less earned.
 
Sorian

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Ah no one did bring it up, so yes, while fighting for your word change, please also keep in mind what the vote would be for if you want to vote for no one to die, needs good terminology there too.

It sucks but put me in the camp that would have replaced Salva there. I don’t fault Natiko in any way and really it is Zeke’s fault for slipping but if I was gamerunner or watcher there, my opinion would have 100% been to replace Salva with like a priority pass or something for next game.
 
The Bear

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
Sorian said:
Reading down so maybe this was addressed but yes, it does need to be easily written out because people can still vote no lynch. Just because we never vote for it doesn’t mean the option isn’t actually there.
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I think this one can be easily reworded into 'No vote' or 'no elimination' or similar.
 
Chuggernaut

Chuggernaut

HONK HONK MF
I just can’t get on board with anything that involves replacing out the person who caught the slip. It sucks that it can mess up the game, but I think people just need to be careful about making sure slips don’t happen. Like imagine if you’re someone playing with us for the first time, and you happen to catch a slip and get asked to replace out for something that’s no fault of your own.
 
Sorian

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
The Bear said:
I think this one can be easily reworded into 'No vote' or 'no elimination' or similar.
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I definitely can’t get behind no vote since there are people also literally not voting.
 
SalvaPot

SalvaPot

YEAH
I like jmans idea that both players, the one that slipped and the one that saw it, should be replaced. The one that saw it should have priority for the next game, and the one that slip given a default replacrment.

I offered to be replaced and believed i could keep the secret but as all can see its just hard to keep that, i couldn't even tell my partner. And the taunting was against the idea of pretending nothing happened, lol.
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
TheChuggernaut said:
I just can’t get on board with anything that involves replacing out the person who caught the slip. It sucks that it can mess up the game, but I think people just need to be careful about making sure slips don’t happen. Like imagine if you’re someone playing with us for the first time, and you happen to catch a slip and get asked to replace out for something that’s no fault of your own.
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Yep I'm against anything that will replace the person who saw the slip.

Honestly I think Zeke should have just been mod killed or Mod reveals to town Zeke slipped on another board. His slip is the problem Scum team made a mistake and they need to Hold the L.

You are disrupting Town for a scum teamembers mistake.
 
SalvaPot

SalvaPot

YEAH
But really if someone caughs a slip but know they'll be punished for it, why would they reveal the info? Even if they do for honor it just breaks the fun of the game.
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
SalvaPot said:
But really if someone caughs a slip but know they'll be punished for it, why would they reveal the info? Even if they do for honor it just breaks the fun of the game.
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yep the second you punish a player for seeing a slip (yes being forced to replace is a punishment) people will stop telling the truth and not tell the Mod about the slip and nobody wants that.
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Can someone argue with me why a Scum team member themselves compromising the games integrity by posting on the wrong spot should not result in that scum members Slot being killed?
 
jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Like try to cover the slip of possible but if 1 town player finds out the Mod really should just make it public knowledge to the thread.

It's on the scum team to not make mistakes in revealing there role.
 
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jman1954goat

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
The Bear said:
I didn't feel like town had outright earned victory in the end because of how major shift it was.
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I have been looking back through Mario Kart mafia and I am 100% sure town wins without the Zeke slip. He was dead anyway when Blarg flips or reveals Doctor he was always on borrowed time.

the last scum spot was also already being scum read by many.
 
AllThingsPurple

AllThingsPurple

I do kind of feel honestly Salva should have been replaced out. It was not fault of his own obviously and not blaming him or anyone but once the slip was made and hw knew about it, the game was compromised.

Slips happen and no one is doing it intentionally but ultimately I feel the action that keeps the game alive and well is the best one to take.
 
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