999 Mafia

[Faddy]

Basically let's play the game Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors but as a game of mafia.

More Readable as a Google Doc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NkQsEi-k71JgwgGXSh0KXAn9s-qlxtfdh5o64bYAzm8/edit?usp=sharing

Setup

9 players with 7 town and 2 mafia. There are no power roles.

Each player will be given a number 1-9 via RNG. (I may let the mafia pick their number) then self select themselves into smaller groups and try to find the mafia.

The game will be broken into a maximum of 9 phases, nominally hours. Mafia win when they are 50% of players or are alive when the game ends. Town win if they lynch both mafia before time runs out


Choosing Doors

The game will follow the mechanics of the 999 video game. Players will face a numbered doors and have to decide who they want to go through the door with in groups of 3-5 players. Players with have to add their numbers together to match the digital root of the door. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_root

The digital root (also repeated digital sum) of a non-negative integer is the (single digit) value obtained by an iterative process of summing digits, on each iteration using the result from the previous iteration to compute a digit sum. The process continues until a single-digit number is reached.

For example, the digital root of 65,536 is 7, because 6 + 5 + 5 + 3 + 6 = 25 and 2 + 5 = 7.

This decision will be done via the Popcorn method

In this game the players will vote for which player picks a door first. The winner will then nominate the next player and so on. In the event of a tie I will randomise the winner. I will provide a list of valid combinations so things go smoothly.


For day 1 I will present Doors 9, 3 and 6. This will give players the option of splitting into three groups of 3 or two groups of 4 and 5


Lynching

Once players have entered a door they will then choose a lynch from between their group via voting. All voting will be done in private via PMs and the day will not end on majority with players being able to change their vote right up to deadline.No lynch is valid and a tied vote will result in a no lynch.

Players will not be given alignment flips but will be told the number of mafia alive.


Mafia Kill

Mafia will make a kill after the lynches have been announced. They may not refuse to make the kill. If they don’t submit a command the kill will be RNG’d among the remaining Town players


Further phases

If the game continues players will be faced with more doors depending on the number of remaining players and the cycle continues


Hour 1 Pre-game

Hour 2 Choose Door

Hour 3 Lynch in Room

Hour 4 Mafia Kill (Night phase)

Hour 5 Choose Door

Hour 6 Lynch in Room

Hour 7 Mafia Kill (Night Phase)

Hour 8 Choose Door

Hour 9 Lynch in Room

Game Ends


Phase 2 and 3

Scenarios for remaining players


8 players remaining (unlikely but whatever)

Players will split into two groups of 4 via popcorn method like in phase 1. I’ll show 4 doors, 2 sets of 2 which add to the Living Digital Root. (LDR) E.g if Player 5 dies the digital root of the survivors is 4.

Preference will be given to Door Numbers which have not been seen then numbers closest to 5.

LDR = 1 (2,8) (4,6)
LDR = 2 (4,7) (5,6)
LDR = 3 (4,8) (5,7)
LDR = 4 (5,8) (6,7)
LDR = 5 (1,4) (6,8)
LDR = 6 (1,5) (2,4)
LDR = 7 (2,5) (3,4)
LDR = 8 (1,7) (3,5)
LDR = 9 (2,7) (4,5)


7 players remaining - Same as above but players will split into groups of 4 and 3


6 players remaining - Same as above but players will split into 2 groups of 3


5 players remaining

I’ll show 5 doors with the living digital roots summed to 4 of the living players and 1 player will be chosen not to enter the lynch room. E.g. 1 3 4 5 8 alive I’ll show doors. Players will vote for which player does not enter a room.


1+3+4+5 = 13 = Door 4

1+3+4+8 = 16 = Door 7

1+3+5+8 = 17 = Door 8

1+4+5+8 = 18 = Door 9

3+4+5+8 = 20 = Door 2


Phase 3 only- Town automatically lose if they enter phase 3 with both mafia alive and less than 5 total living players as they can only lynch 1 mafia


4 players remaining - Same as 5 players remaining

3 players remaining - Players automatically enter the final room

 

[Faddy]

The idea behind this game is that people don't often get to participate in end game scenarios where they need to pick between 2 players. This setup really puts people under pressure to make a decision in a very small setup.

Balance summary. This game is probably town sided in terms of town having many kills. In the best scenario for town they will have 5 chances to lynch 2 mafia. Mafia only have 2 kills in the game. Mafia have the benefit of no voting record and no flips. It does put the onus on mafia to try and manipulate which rooms they enter and who they enter with.

The game will need to in part be run on Outer. In the first and second phase when players break into rooms these thread will be on Outer and not opened for other players during the game. These thread will be treated like PMs and cannot be directly quoted. If the game reaches the final room stage that can be on ERA. So 5 out of 7 active phases will be on Era.

 

[Faddy]

Here is the list of options for players to choose from in the first phase

 

[The Bear]

Hello, me and Roy are the reviewers.

 

[The Bear]

From a very small peek, this seems like a very experimental minigame, that might be best run in Outer Mafia if it's ever run.

I'll post more thoughts later.

 

[The Bear]

What happens if a vote ends on tie?

 

[The Bear]

How much time are players given for lynch vote? What if some people forget to vote?

 

[Faddy]

Tie is a no lynch.

Maybe non-voting players would be treated as voting No Lynch.

Phases would be 24 hours and deadline at around 10pm in the UK although I might ask players if they want the deadline moved for their own convenience.

 

[The Bear]

WORST CASE SCENARIO:

Game Starts - 9 Players
3-3-3 split to three doors
First Lynches occur - 6 Players
Mafia Kill occurs - 5 Players
4 players enter one room
Second Lynch occurs - 4 Players

Mafia wins.

 

[The Bear]

My biggest concern is that town has very likely only one mislynch before game enters into MYLO/LYLO territory already. However, that cannot be fixed with the current way thjs game is structured, so it would have to be let as it is (which is why this needs to be advertised as EXPERIMENTAL minigame).

 

[The Bear]

The voting is done privately, but are the vote results public? I think they should be, because if those are private too, it becomes basically impossible to gather any intel from those votes (= scumhunting turns from 'very difficult' to 'impossible')

 

[Faddy]

Town have 3 mislynches to play with. They can get all 3 lynches wrong in phase 1 and not lose. Mafia could both be killed in phase 1 and lose the game. They only need to get 1 out of 4 lynch chances correct to enter the final phase.

I think it is best for town to choose to split into only two groups in the first phase. They don't lose a lynch and guarantee Mafia don't have the majority in one room. Maybe I'll write the flavour to that effect and put the 2 door choice at the top.

I get the point about voting. Ok votes will be public but a majority doesn't end the day.

 

[Faddy]

Hmm actually the worst case scenario is actually way worse since at 5 town need to correctly leave a Mafia out of the room to be able to lynch so they would be outed for the final phase.

I guess only having the 2 doors at the beginning is best if I want to protect town from themselves.

 

[The Bear]

Hmm actually the worst case scenario is actually way worse since at 5 town need to correctly leave a Mafia out of the room to be able to lynch so they would be outed for the final phase.

I guess only having the 2 doors at the beginning is best if I want to protect town from themselves.

I think having only 2 doors at the beginning, and forcing players to discuss how to split into 5-4 is better than having 3 doors and possibly 3 mislynches (especially since town has minimal amount of intel during first lynch).

 

[Faddy]

I think having only 2 doors at the beginning, and forcing players to discuss how to split into 5-4 is better than having 3 doors and possibly 3 mislynches (especially since town has minimal amount of intel during first lynch).

Ok then I think I will switch the numbers to 4 and 5 to be like the game.

So then it probably goes

9 players split into 2 rooms
> 2 lynches, 1 kill
6 players split into 2 rooms*
> 2 lynches, 1 kill
3 players enter final room

*At this point Mafia can effectively win if both players are alive and in the same room.

---
There can be a no lynch but probably never a good idea for town in this scenario. Or i could remove no lynch completely and make ties randomly pick a lynch between vote leaders.

 

[Faddy]

 

[The Bear]

Do you think you should release graph photos to players during door phases that show all options? Could help players

 

[Faddy]

Do you think you should release graph photos to players during door phases that show all options? Could help players

Yes. I'll give them the image. I put letters on this one so they can have a shorthand e.g. Option D or Option L

No point making them do the math on their own.

 

[The Bear]

Yes. I'll give them the image. I put letters on this one so they can have a shorthand e.g. Option D or Option L

No point making them do the math on their own.

That's good

 

[The Bear]

Ok then I think I will switch the numbers to 4 and 5 to be like the game.

So then it probably goes

9 players split into 2 rooms
> 2 lynches, 1 kill
6 players split into 2 rooms*
> 2 lynches, 1 kill
3 players enter final room

*At this point Mafia can effectively win if both players are alive and in the same room.

---
There can be a no lynch but probably never a good idea for town in this scenario. Or i could remove no lynch completely and make ties randomly pick a lynch between vote leaders.

My biggest issue that even with these adjustments, the game is still heavily lopsided towards scum victory. Essentially, if both scum get to the 4-player room in first room split, they can already influence the vote immensely, and most likely secure a win (since like you said, mafia can easily win if they then get to the same room in second room split). I don't know if any good solution exists to solving this, though.

 

[Faddy]

My biggest issue that even with these adjustments, the game is still heavily lopsided towards scum victory. Essentially, if both scum get to the 4-player room in first room split, they can already influence the vote immensely, and most likely secure a win (since like you said, mafia can easily win if they then get to the same room in second room split). I don't know if any good solution exists to solving this, though.

It is a difficult game and town really need to think about how they split up and what logic they are building.

From a mafia perspective. Town have 5 lynches, they only have 2 kills. That is pretty tough.

 

[The Bear]

I'll wait for Roy to look at the game.

 

[The Bear]

I'll wait for Roy to look at the game.

At this point of time I don't know what to really change in the design to make it more fair outside of complete re-design, which means I could approve it (as long as it is advertised/scheduled properly), but I want to hear Roy's assesment first.

 

[Roytheone]

I agree with burb that this really is a ONUW style game and not a "normal" mafia game. It should run fully on outer mafia and probably should not be a part of a main season and more be an "in between" snack game.

I do like the idea a lot though, especially the part of groups having their own lynch and then coming back together and needing to talk about it. Balance wise I honestly find this game very hard to judge, will have to think about it a bit.

Or i could remove no lynch completely and make ties randomly pick a lynch between vote leaders.

Not too keen on this though. randomizing a lynch when there are multiple leaders could very easily lead to the game being decided by pure RNG, and that is not fun for anyone.

 

[Faddy]

Ok I have solved all the problems!

Ties will result in a no lynch. Voting and flips will be exactly as standard games but majority doesn't end the phase.
The game will now not be limited to 3 phases but still a flavour 9 hour time limit.
Once the number of players reaches 5 the choosing phase is eliminated.
Mafia must use their kill.

Hour 1 - Players choose between door 4 and 5
Hour 2 - Players lynch (0,1 or 2 players)
Hour 3 - Mafia Kill 1 Player
Hour 4 - Players choose doors
Hour 5 - Players lynch (0,1 or 2 players)
Hour 6 - Mafia Kill 1 Player

At this point if 5 or fewer players remain players will automatically move to the lynch phase

Hour 7 - Players lynch (0 or 1 player)
Hour 8 - Mafia Kill 1 Player
Hour 9 - Players lynch (lynch remaining mafia or lose)

IF town somehow don't lynch two players out of 4 chances

Hour 7 - Players choose doors
Hour 8 - Players lynch (lynch remaining mafia or lose)

So in the first 4 lynch chances
if there is 0 no lynches then final 3 is at hour 7; town need to lynch 1 mafia
if there is 1 no lynch then it is best for town to no lynch again at hour 7 with 4 players alive; town need to lynch 1 mafia
If there are 2 no lynches then town still has 4 lynches; town can still win without successfully lynching mafia

Town lose after 4 lynch chances with 4 mislynches -or- 3 mislynches and a no lynch
I'm fine with that.

 

[Faddy]

I don't think this game is like ONUW at all.

This game has zero claims and all inferences have to be made from interactions and votes.

Time wise I think 24 hours per phase is fine which means the game will between 4 and 9 days.

 

[Roytheone]

I don't think this game is like ONUW at all.

This game has zero claims and all inferences have to be made from interactions and votes.

Time wise I think 24 hours per phase is fine which means the game will between 4 and 9 days.

I think you misunderstood my point. I am not saying the design is like ONUW, but with the type of game I mean how both this and ONUW are very different from normal mafia games and time wise are smaller in scope. Thus, both this game and ONUW games should not be part of the main season games and instead be seen as side games.

 

[Faddy]

I think you misunderstood my point. I am not saying the design is like ONUW, but with the type of game I mean how both this and ONUW are very different from normal mafia games and time wise are smaller in scope. Thus, both this game and ONUW games should not be part of the main season games and instead be seen as side games.

I think some people would see this as closer to standard mafia than a game like HvV.
Time wise it is shorter than a normal game because it is only 9 players.
The reason it should probably be on Outer is the requirement for multiple threads.

I think the only other thing to discuss is how much info do players get.
1. When split up can they read the thread they aren't part of
2. Can players read threads they weren't part of afterwards
3. Can mafia communicate in a private chat
4. How clearly do I outline the game set up

1. I don't think I should give players access to the opposing thread so they make their decision without being influenced by other events. This means no voting tool for the game otherwise players could look up the vote on fireblend's site. No vote tool doesn't really matter with small player numbers and no turbos.

2. Yes. Gives town more info to work with and make connections. And makes the mafia kill more informed.

3. I think mafia should get a night chat only. i.e. they can only talk in the phase where they make a kill. They would also get a night 0 chat in pre-game to discuss strategy for the first two phases. Limiting the chat stops easy collusion later on an forces them to openly talk to each other in the game threads.

4. Everyone will know there are no PRs. Everyone will know the time limit and I will detail how time is spent. I will let town work out how many lynches/no lynches they have. I will do this via Rules flavour like in the game.

 

[Faddy]

Messing about with potential FLAVOUR images​

 

[Faddy]

Messing about with potential FLAVOUR images

quote test

 

[Faddy]

Messing about with potential FLAVOUR images​

 

[Faddy]

Messing about with potential FLAVOUR images​

 

[Faddy]

Messing about with potential FLAVOUR images​

 

[Faddy]

 

[Roytheone]

I think some people would see this as closer to standard mafia than a game like HvV.
Time wise it is shorter than a normal game because it is only 9 players.
The reason it should probably be on Outer is the requirement for multiple threads.

I think the only other thing to discuss is how much info do players get.
1. When split up can they read the thread they aren't part of
2. Can players read threads they weren't part of afterwards
3. Can mafia communicate in a private chat
4. How clearly do I outline the game set up

1. I don't think I should give players access to the opposing thread so they make their decision without being influenced by other events. This means no voting tool for the game otherwise players could look up the vote on fireblend's site. No vote tool doesn't really matter with small player numbers and no turbos.

2. Yes. Gives town more info to work with and make connections. And makes the mafia kill more informed.

3. I think mafia should get a night chat only. i.e. they can only talk in the phase where they make a kill. They would also get a night 0 chat in pre-game to discuss strategy for the first two phases. Limiting the chat stops easy collusion later on an forces them to openly talk to each other in the game threads.

4. Everyone will know there are no PRs. Everyone will know the time limit and I will detail how time is spent. I will let town work out how many lynches/no lynches they have. I will do this via Rules flavour like in the game.

1. agree, chats should be separate.

2. I think they shouldn't be able to look back at the other threads, this forces them to explain to the other group what happened when they were split up which creates an interesting dynamic.

3. Night chat is definitely needed, way to hard to coordinate kills otherwise. I wouldn't be against them also having a private chat during other phases, except for when they are split up in different rooms. They should not be able to communicate with each other between rooms.

4. I would be pretty clear about the set up. It's a pretty different way of playing mafia and people should know what they are in for. Details like how to play/how many lynches they have they need to figure out themselves obviously.

 

[Faddy]

2. I think they shouldn't be able to look back at the other threads, this forces them to explain to the other group what happened when they were split up which creates an interesting dynamic.

It definitely makes the game harder in some respects but I guess it does give more prospect of clashes when players are recalling past events. The only difficulty with this is I would need to enforce rules like no screenshots to keep thing fair. It could also lead to mafia not having to keep up pretenses in some cases.

3. Night chat is definitely needed, way to hard to coordinate kills otherwise. I wouldn't be against them also having a private chat during other phases, except for when they are split up in different rooms. They should not be able to communicate with each other between rooms.

If town can't read threads they weren't part of I'm not going to give mafia any more communication. They will get all the info night 0 then they have to plan out what they should do in advance.


For me these are the points that are going to balance the game. How much info town gets vs How well mafia can communicate.

 

[Roytheone]

It definitely makes the game harder in some respects but I guess it does give more prospect of clashes when players are recalling past events. The only difficulty with this is I would need to enforce rules like no screenshots to keep thing fair. It could also lead to mafia not having to keep up pretenses in some cases.



If town can't read threads they weren't part of I'm not going to give mafia any more communication. They will get all the info night 0 then they have to plan out what they should do in advance.


For me these are the points that are going to balance the game. How much info town gets vs How well mafia can communicate.

Pretty sure no screenshots of private chats (and for all intents and purpose these chats will basically be private chats between the players) is already an official rule in the community. So no need to make a separate rule for this game.

 

[Faddy]

Pretty sure no screenshots of private chats (and for all intents and purpose these chats will basically be private chats between the players) is already an official rule in the community. So no need to make a separate rule for this game.

Reducing the opportunity for people to do dumb things seems like a decent goal. People are familiar with rules for private chats but these threads would be the game thread when players split so there is room for confusion.

There is also the fun factor. Letting everyone read the old threads allows more discussion, more reasoning and less frustration and feeling events are outwith a player's ability to solve.

 

[Faddy]

Any other comments before I write up final version of the game for your approval?

 

[The Bear]

I'll take a look at the new changes now, seems like lot has changed.

 

[The Bear]

The new version of the game is fine - it could end up having balancing problems, but this will be an experimental minigame, so it's okay. The game has to be advertised as such during sign-ups so that people know what they are agreeing to.

As for questions:

1. When split up can they read the thread they aren't part of
2. Can players read threads they weren't part of afterwards
3. Can mafia communicate in a private chat
4. How clearly do I outline the game set up

1. I think they shouldn't be able to.
2. I think they should be able to read after, but this is something I think the GM can decide on, it can work either way.
3. I think night chat is needed, day is not as necessary (to give town a better chance)
4. Make it as clear as possible.

 

[Faddy]

Thanks Grizzly!

I'll write up the updated (final?) version sometime this week.

 

[Roytheone]

I agree with Burb that the game as is now is probably fine IF advertised as an experimental, smaller game. This being quite different will probably mean we will just have to run it to see how it goes.

 

[Faddy]

Cool. I didn't have time yet to write it up with the 72 hour phase in GoT eating up my mafia time and stuff has come up this weekend.
:(

 

[The Bear]

Cool. I didn't have time yet to write it up with the 72 hour phase in GoT eating up my mafia time and stuff has come up this weekend.
:(

We'll wait for it. We'll also need the role PMs

 

[The Bear]

@Faddy what is the status here? It has been 2.5 weeks.

 

[Faddy]

@Faddy what is the status here? It has been 2.5 weeks.

Sorry Bear. Been busy (also annoyed at mafia). I'm pencilling it in for after this phase in GoT mafia.

That game has been too much stress.

 

[Faddy]

We'll wait for it. We'll also need the role PMs

The role PM will be simple, basically just stating if a player is town or mafia.

All the vital information will come in the opening post like I did with monopoly.

 

[Faddy]

Better late than never!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BFRZKFRKTgC0GHuBtzvCj7tnoN6ZCg5OJuTZFgZQdkE/edit?usp=sharing

Changes and decisions I've made.

• The selection phase is no longer popcorn because that is quite messy with timezones as it requires people to be available at a specific time or the game might stall. Instead the players now vote for the options given to them. So they now Vote: A
• Majority will be in effect all the time because I think votes should matter
• Threads are readable after the phase ends
• Mafia will have no limit on chats

 

[The Bear]

Looks fine for me. I'll give it an OK. Needs Roy's approval too tho.

 

[Faddy]

Thanks Grizzly. :-)

paging @Roytheone...

 

[Roytheone]

I would ok this too. It is a hard game to judge since it is quite different, so the best way is probably just to run it and then learn from how it goes!

 

[Faddy]

Thanks guys for your wise words and patience.