Heroes Vs. Villains 2

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
generic additions:
In general, all different powers should be given their own paragraph in the role PM, instead of all that information being one long string. It makes it lot easier to read.
Always explain what the command does in role PM. We can't expect the players to already know 100% what all commands do, even if they are mostly common knowledge. There might be new players, or players who haven't played for a long time.
For forces of light and darkness, put it in highlights that they can only kill either in even or odd nights.

specific additions:
Captain america: Needs his mod-confirmed status be in highlights.
Sonic: Needs to explain what the commute command does (this could theoretically be anyones first game). Same with Space Stone - it's not really clear what the switching does in the role PM.
Rick: Same with Sonic, should need to give a basic explanation what the switch does.
Sonic: Specify that the two other names are fake.
Michael Scott: Explain what the FIRE command does.
Uther: Specify if they can self target or consecutive-target with the HEAL.
Ed & Ein: Specify if the HACK command needs to be input during night or day phase.

Ulala: How is this going to work exactly? If Ulala inputs the command during the night, how can some of the roles be able to double-use their power, especially the ones that have to target someone? If both of those powers trigger at the same time. Like if Ulala boosts Leon.

Yasuo: Explain how long the Wind Fall affects the targeted player. Make it specific if Yasuo can save more than one person with Sweeping Blade.
Arthur Morgan: Rephrase the wording a bit to make it clear he will never get to know personally how many honor points he has, not even when he dies (the current wording kind of implies the amount of points would be revealed at flip)

All For One: Specify that they cannot copy a dead player.
Dracula: Explain what the commute does.
Osmund: The Infect-highlight tag is broken right now.
Thanos: Explain what the space stone switch does.
 
Ok, quite a few changes to make, will 99% do them tomorrow. As for Ulala, she is the first night action, so when and if someone uses their power that night, I will send them a PM telling them they can use it once more on a different target without wasting a shot.
 

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
I think the Role PMs are fine now. There may be some issues with grammar, but nothing that catches my eyes right now.

Monkey has to go through the PMs before we can approve this.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
Yasuo's PM needs work structurally before I look at it. The post-n2 PM is not consistent with the others.

ETA:

Re: Raiden - is there a reason for the addition of the night? Can this move backwards? Like if it's night 3, can I find out who visited them n2? I apologize if this has been previously addressed and I missed it.
 
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Yasuo's PM needs work structurally before I look at it. The post-n2 PM is not consistent with the others.

ETA:

Re: Raiden - is there a reason for the addition of the night? Can this move backwards? Like if it's night 3, can I find out who visited them n2? I apologize if this has been previously addressed and I missed it.
Yes for Raiden, changed Hit to Michael Scott. I didn't realize the PM's needed that many changes, I have approved all of them thus far, for Yasuo, it's not consistent because he has a lot of abilities and it's on purpose this way, like with Jedah and a few others that have a lot of abilities.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
I understand they are different than other players. Consistency is still an important part of game design. It adds clarity and helps prevent really easily avoided arguments within the game. If the others are written in narrative sentences, these need to be as well. You can do it as a framing device. I'll drop some suggestions into Yasuo's.

Actually, let me rephrase:

Several other roles also have multiple abilities. In that, there should be no difference between them. I'm not talking about the pre-post N2 issues. I'm talking about the structure of the PM overall. No reason for Yasuo's to differ from, say, Captain America's in terms of abilities being communicated.
 
I prefer the new Arthur Morgan PM, much better, the secret vote is like a PM vote, not like the previous game where your vote counted double secretly.
 
I think I should also fix the villains since they fall under the same category as Yasuo, but tell me if what I have done with him is enough to know if I can proceed or not
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
Grizzly, how do you suggest here that we handle highlight/bold of role names? some are easy like miller/x-shot tracker/bulletproof, etc. Should we skip that here? Some of them will be kinda tricky.

We do need to doublecheck that all commands are highlighted, though, just a final pass to make sure.
 
thanks!

That's the same list for All For One, yeah?

also, please don't change this until after I'm done, but there's an error in the win condition for the Forces of Light (but two people editing at once can be an issue so please hold off).
Yeah, All For One has the same +Ditto. And alright, I'll wait.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
What happens if Osmund commands someone who has multiple abilities? Again, if this has been addressed, just let me know; the search on this forum style is garbage, I swear.

I assume use of the time stone isn't public, but does that mean the impact of it IS public? Like everyone will know if Player X gets to redo something.
 
What happens if Osmund commands someone who has multiple abilities? Again, if this has been addressed, just let me know; the search on this forum style is garbage, I swear.

I assume use of the time stone isn't public, but does that mean the impact of it IS public? Like everyone will know if Player X gets to redo something.
They can't use both at the same time, so the redirected action will be the one they use that night.
Yeah about the time stone.
Thanos has a fakeclaim, Villager, maybe I forgot to add it in the PMs, will do.
 
Xehanort's vote is meant to be final, I think the suggestion is kind of like, they will vote the one you choose but they can change it, it's more like, they can vote whoever but MUST end the day on that person.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
ALL threats eliminated is everyone else so that is mutually exclusive with majority. Majority means you don't have to eliminate all threats, just outnumber them.

If Forces of Darkness/Light must eliminate the other faction and also gain 50% majority over the rest, that's different.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
Here also is my concern:
FoL and FoD are in a really bad place here. I think it's near impossible for either faction to win this game, so clarifying those win conditions is very important, but my concern right now is six pissed off players in the thread after the game, complaining that they had no chance to win and were only really there to clear the way for others.

In a normal game, asking them to get down to a three-player endgame scenario is gonna take a while but is more possible. In this game, there's so many powers flying around that keeping one of those factions alive is going to be very difficult. And from a reviewer perspective, it's difficult to visualize.

I'm not telling you that you have to make changes here. I'm asking you to think about it.
 
I considered making changes but it came down to buffing the teams or adding a member to each team, both of which I was advised not to do, and not having 2 teams would be a complete remake which I don't want to do.
Yes, that's how post controlling works.
 
The main thing here is that I want to finish the process to get in the waiting line, to make the wait as short as possible, making changes would need reviewing the whole thing all over again, this game has been for review since December. No offense to any of you of course, you are people after all.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
I considered making changes but it came down to buffing the teams or adding a member to each team, both of which I was advised not to do, and not having 2 teams would be a complete remake which I don't want to do.
Yes, that's how post controlling works.
The main thing here is that I want to finish the process to get in the waiting line, to make the wait as short as possible, making changes would need reviewing the whole thing all over again, this game has been for review since December. No offense to any of you of course, you are people after all.
I understand. I just also want you to reflect on the idea that those six people may well be angry after the game and that's something you should prep for. They largely exist in this game to clear the way for others to win, unless they get very lucky.

I'm going to look over the events today to make sure everything is clear in case someone else has to handle one.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
1
Event 1: Chaos Emerald hunt: Choose 1/(number of participants) chest, 1 has a Chaos Emerald. If the chest is empty then you get nothing and the bottle is removed from selection. Chaos Emerald increases Geoffrey's chances to 15% or gives Sonic an extra commute. Public Event

I don't understand what the bottle is. Is that the chest?

2

Event 2: Duel with Dutch Van Der Linde: An event for 4 players max, one after another you duel Dutch in a game of Blackjack, the winner gets Dutch's revolver. (If Arthur Morgan owns it, he gains 3 honor points instantly, if The Man with No Name owns it, he can gladiate as many players at once as he wants.). Losers are roleblocked for the following night. If 2 people or more defeat Dutch, they play a game with each other. Public Event

this one's fine to me, as I assume it works as blackjack the last time
How are you drawing the cards? Are you using a simulator or something that would be possible for players to read/count to determine card draw?

3
Event 1: Guessing Game: All players must guess who is that obscure character, similarly to who's that Pokemon. Winner gets the Morning Star. (Does nothing, if owned by Dracula it gives him one more use of his Hellfire). There is no loser. Public Event

What's the character? What are the clues or is it an outline a la who's that Pokemon?

4
Event 2: Liar's Dice: An event for 3 players max. 3 players play Liar's Dice, the winner is the first player who gets 2 wins. The winner gets a Super Microchip. (If it's owned by Connor, Rick or Ed and Ein, give them 1 more use of their ability). Losers lose their vote. Public Event

have no idea what this one is?

5
Event 1: Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? No max amount of players, Carmen Sandiego is hidden in a country, send me a PM to try and guess the country, the person closest wins. Winner gets an Invitation to Dinner with Carmen Sandiego, aka a 1 shot commute. There are no losers. Event via PM.

How do you determine closest? For example, Brazil shares a border with several countries. Which one is "closest?" What do you do in the event of a tie here?

6
Event 2: Coin Collector. No Max amount of players, there are 10 coin blocks to choose from, each containing a different amount, players choose 3, the one with the highest amount of coins wins the Oathkeeper(if owned by Xehanort, he has RNG protection from an event/ITA that would've killed him).

I'm not really sure how the guesses are working here but this seems fine on the face (like if every living player signs up, everyone gets three guesses? is that it?)

7
Event 1: You are going to have a Bad Time: Sans forces one of the players to duel him, you have to say if a number will be below or above 5 3 times. 3 numbers will be chosen via RNG, for example, player chooses "above, above, below", and the numbers rolled are "6,6,2", then the player wins. If the player gets all 3 correct, they win and Sans is defeated, getting 1 wrong results in nothing, 2 wrong is a roleblock and a vote loss, 3 is death. The game repeats until Sans has been defeated. If 3 players fail to defeat Sans, he becomes tired, the players will have to guess if the numbers will be above or below 7. Public event. Sans cannot kill more than 1 player.

okay

8
Event 2: Guessing Game part 2: The players will have to guess another obscure video game character, this one being extremely obscure. If they fail the GW program is activated. They won't know what it does but GW makes all scans insane scans. If a player wins, they become Lynchproof for a single day.

welp
okay, sucks to be them

the special events seem fine, I guess, crazy, but fine.
 
1
Event 1: Chaos Emerald hunt: Choose 1/(number of participants) chest, 1 has a Chaos Emerald. If the chest is empty then you get nothing and the bottle is removed from selection. Chaos Emerald increases Geoffrey's chances to 15% or gives Sonic an extra commute. Public Event

I don't understand what the bottle is. Is that the chest?

2

Event 2: Duel with Dutch Van Der Linde: An event for 4 players max, one after another you duel Dutch in a game of Blackjack, the winner gets Dutch's revolver. (If Arthur Morgan owns it, he gains 3 honor points instantly, if The Man with No Name owns it, he can gladiate as many players at once as he wants.). Losers are roleblocked for the following night. If 2 people or more defeat Dutch, they play a game with each other. Public Event

this one's fine to me, as I assume it works as blackjack the last time
How are you drawing the cards? Are you using a simulator or something that would be possible for players to read/count to determine card draw?

3
Event 1: Guessing Game: All players must guess who is that obscure character, similarly to who's that Pokemon. Winner gets the Morning Star. (Does nothing, if owned by Dracula it gives him one more use of his Hellfire). There is no loser. Public Event

What's the character? What are the clues or is it an outline a la who's that Pokemon?

4
Event 2: Liar's Dice: An event for 3 players max. 3 players play Liar's Dice, the winner is the first player who gets 2 wins. The winner gets a Super Microchip. (If it's owned by Connor, Rick or Ed and Ein, give them 1 more use of their ability). Losers lose their vote. Public Event

have no idea what this one is?

5
Event 1: Where in the World is Carmen Sandiego? No max amount of players, Carmen Sandiego is hidden in a country, send me a PM to try and guess the country, the person closest wins. Winner gets an Invitation to Dinner with Carmen Sandiego, aka a 1 shot commute. There are no losers. Event via PM.

How do you determine closest? For example, Brazil shares a border with several countries. Which one is "closest?" What do you do in the event of a tie here?

6
Event 2: Coin Collector. No Max amount of players, there are 10 coin blocks to choose from, each containing a different amount, players choose 3, the one with the highest amount of coins wins the Oathkeeper(if owned by Xehanort, he has RNG protection from an event/ITA that would've killed him).

I'm not really sure how the guesses are working here but this seems fine on the face (like if every living player signs up, everyone gets three guesses? is that it?)

7
Event 1: You are going to have a Bad Time: Sans forces one of the players to duel him, you have to say if a number will be below or above 5 3 times. 3 numbers will be chosen via RNG, for example, player chooses "above, above, below", and the numbers rolled are "6,6,2", then the player wins. If the player gets all 3 correct, they win and Sans is defeated, getting 1 wrong results in nothing, 2 wrong is a roleblock and a vote loss, 3 is death. The game repeats until Sans has been defeated. If 3 players fail to defeat Sans, he becomes tired, the players will have to guess if the numbers will be above or below 7. Public event. Sans cannot kill more than 1 player.

okay

8
Event 2: Guessing Game part 2: The players will have to guess another obscure video game character, this one being extremely obscure. If they fail the GW program is activated. They won't know what it does but GW makes all scans insane scans. If a player wins, they become Lynchproof for a single day.

welp
okay, sucks to be them

the special events seem fine, I guess, crazy, but fine.
1. It's chest, I had bottle because before I changed it you opened bottles, will change.
2.Exactly like last time, for card draw I use random.org, numbers 1 to 13 with 1 being an ace and 13 the K.
3.I haven't decided on the character but I'm thinking Plum from Mario Golf, yeah it will be an outline like Pokemon.
4.I'll link a video later that explains the game, it's a game with dice basically.
5.closest in KM, if there's a tie they both win.
6.Yes, that's how it works.
8. I haven't selected a character here either, but you bet it will be something suuuper obscure, like some Japan exclusive NES game.
 

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
So threats:

For Fod: Fol and Osmund + Jeddah
For Fol: Fod and Osmund + Jeddah

I assume Thanos is not count as a threat.

Why was "you also need to be 50% of living players" removed from the fod + fol win conditions? That should be mentioned right.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
I agree - when I posted before about refining the wincons, it was the threat I meant, and the difference between -- well, I'll just post it again:

"ALL threats eliminated is everyone else so that is mutually exclusive with majority. Majority means you don't have to eliminate all threats, just outnumber them. "

Eliminate ALL threats also means town, but I assume you don't mean one of these factions has to wipe out everyone unless we determine that threats are ONLY the other mafia factions.
 

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
I assume town isn't count as threat per say, which might mean the wincons need some rewording further to make it clear.
 
They win when the other faction is dead, plus Jedah's Alliance, and then like regular Mafia they need to have at least 50% of the votes. Thanos isn't a threat to them.
 
The game will know who the main threats are anyway so it won't give it away, they will know of Galeem amd Dharkon plus Jedah, that's pretty much everyone except Thanos who will know exists once he gets a stone.
 

heymonkey

yesssss my guinea pigs
Staff member
AA had this language which may work here, or something similar:

"you win when your team makes up at least 50% of the living player list and there are no other active killing abilities remaining"

So I'd suggest:

You win if there are no more active threats remaining and your team makes up at least 50% of the remaining players.

In line with current standards, clear without revealing multiple factions? Or swap out active for direct?

And yes, Geno, I think we're done when we have the wincon finished, but please note in the spreadsheet that list of threats from above.
 
Ok done, now since you are here Monkey, can you give me a rough estimate of how many games are ahead of mine? Just so I know roughly when I'll host so I can prepare.
 
Alright thank you, and thanks for all the co-operation from both of you. I'm glad I didn't have to make major changes to the game.