Spectator Thread Twilight Zone Watch Party
- Thread starter heymonkey
- Start date
He better send out the "You sense there are 2 Mafia members remaining" PM now. Please do it. Fuck with town.
I think fireblend can only choose from a group of phrases.
But... what if he killed VA, imagine the chaos
Oh he can. But that's one of them (monkey showed me the design doc after I died cause #TwilightZoneDetails) :D
Mmh no IIRC he can send any message.
Anyways, you guys broke Fanto. Do you still have the receipt for the warranty?
Oh ok my bad. Was there someone that could just write anything under 150 characters tho?
15. And yeah I think there was. No clue who could have had that power though... (it was me)
Wait that was words.
turmoil7
Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
saenima
Not Aeleus
Oh that, i see what you mean. But i still think town bought into fire too readily.
As soon as he role claimed he did, but fanto didn't take the bait
So we’re screwed?
Welcome to spec thread.
That means yes. Very yes.
Pedro
The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
yep :P
finally my pain can be done
yeah, everyone really fucking does
Even if we lost, I enjoyed this game a lot.
Happy ending.
Nice game, Fire.
Well done.
Well done.
Just sending messages, sending an invest notification when you were investigated was a coincidence
Remind me how FB was green checked?
He wasn't, town just got a bit bull-headed
Fanto
Confirmed Town
His role made sense. He said that he allowed me to know when I was targeted on N1.
Ynnek said he green checked me that night.
That, to me, meant Fireblend's role was real.
Turns out he just faked the whole thing lol.
Pure luck. Sent Fantomas an investigation PM the same night he got investigated by the actual cop.
I just came back to thank you for the answers and the game is done.
Crazy I say.
I'm very glad to hear that.
It was nice to see the roles interact with one another.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I'll be going through here and liking a bunch of posts pretty soon here btw, so heads up for all the notifications lol.
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As for our Turbo-Happy nature, tbh, just selfishly, I desperately needed a break to stop thinking about Town/Scum all the time and wanted this thing to wrap up ASAP, so it was fine by me, but yes it was ultimately a terrible move and we should not have done it. It led to our very quick demise simply because we went for the quick and easy route instead of the "let's think about this some more" route. A good lesson for sure.
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As for our Turbo-Happy nature, tbh, just selfishly, I desperately needed a break to stop thinking about Town/Scum all the time and wanted this thing to wrap up ASAP, so it was fine by me, but yes it was ultimately a terrible move and we should not have done it. It led to our very quick demise simply because we went for the quick and easy route instead of the "let's think about this some more" route. A good lesson for sure.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I still think if they had really stopped to think about Cap dying before FEP for instance it may have helped. Why would scum kill the only other active role at night? And then to never kill Fire? Just gotta take a step back sometimes.
No matter if town lost, that double mafia lunch was amazing, I genuinely thought you wouldn't be able to pull it off. Bravo.
A shame Zeke wasn't converted, the vote mechanic sounded amazing. But it wasn't necessary, and that's with spec chat asking when would Fireblend give up.
By the way I had a lot of fun commenting here! And learned a lot too. Thanks everyone.
A shame Zeke wasn't converted, the vote mechanic sounded amazing. But it wasn't necessary, and that's with spec chat asking when would Fireblend give up.
By the way I had a lot of fun commenting here! And learned a lot too. Thanks everyone.
But you can take a break. You can take a break in the middle of the day. You have the night phase, too.
Mafia is a team game and it's important to remember that if you start to feel angry/emotional/frustrated that it helps to step away for a bit because that's what's best for your team. It's hard to do. I get really obsessive about the games so I know, but you gotta.
I hope we'll see you in the next, which is a Natiko game!
yessssssssss watch it alllllll
Hope you do
Fanto
Confirmed Town
It's just not that easy for me.
What I really need is an extended break from playing, which I keep telling myself I'm going to do, but then I just sign up right away for another one.
The only game I could see myself signing up for in the next like 6 months would be Gif Mafia 2.
Otherwise, I just need to stay in Spec, and learn how to actually play this game. There is a lot that I clearly do not understand. I keep trying to kill people for "defending" Mafia players, but they're always Town. Then I tried to kill someone for "obviously bussing" their teammate, nope they were Town too. I called everyone's claims bullshit, except the real bullshit one.
---Start Rant---
Really though, this game should have been marked Bastard. It was not just a little bit Bastard, you lied to me. You lied to me via PM with highlighted information. That really sucked. Like, really really sucked. How am I supposed to play these games if highlighted lies from the Gamerunner sent to me via PM are considered non-Bastard? The recruit not knowing they could be recruited? Fine with me. Highlighted lies? That's Bastard.
---End Rant---
That's all I have to say.
I am done playing for a long time now.
I need to sit back, have entire games spoiled for me from the start, and just watch and see how people actually play as Mafia so I can learn how to actually spot them, because clearly I have no idea how to do it.
See you next time.
weemadarthur
Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
ABLF needs a reboot.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I do think you should take a break - every game you’ve played lately you seem to be miserable and frustrated by the end. I think you just go too hard too fast. All that work and rework you did early on when there was only so much data to work with? That would have been more beneficial in the back half, but by that point half of your posts in the neighbor chat were about how much you hated the game and just wanted it to be over regardless. You know that kind of mindset is not beneficial to you or the other players. I think a break would be good to help alleviate some of that though, help you re-center yourself for future games.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Yes, this is all true.
----------------
And to be clear, I am not memeing about the Fantomas Cycle right now, I am actually going to be taking an extended break. I really need it.
Whatever you decide to do, it was fun playing with you! I think you did well, and spec thread is always around if you wanna continue to hang out and participate even if you take a break from actually playing.
Per our community's definition, the game was not bastard - and we are even discussing this in modchat now, because I, designer, do not do the labeling, so I followed up to ask for clarification. We have also concluded that perhaps we need to make sure our scale is not just available to players but discussed and understood. Here, I did not lie to you. Febe lied. I was a conduit; his was a role that produced misinformation. You received it.
If it becomes a trust issue, then that also extends to thinking through clues, yes? And this isn't just to you, Fanto - it's to everyone, because you shared. We don't get notified when we are investigated, usually. Then there was notice of a hypnotist. The clues weren't followed. I'm not saying it was an easy solve, but there were paths the game did not follow.
But that's mafia.
If it becomes a trust issue, then that also extends to thinking through clues, yes? And this isn't just to you, Fanto - it's to everyone, because you shared. We don't get notified when we are investigated, usually. Then there was notice of a hypnotist. The clues weren't followed. I'm not saying it was an easy solve, but there were paths the game did not follow.
But that's mafia.
Fireblend
ABLF
I don't think the role was bastard. I just got ridiculously lucky. If I had sent a message on N2 that could've been pointed to, if Ynnek hadn't investigated you my claim would have been contradicted, if I had been pressured to coordinate my role with Captain's so we both targeted the same person, I would have been found out. And there's another couple things. I fucked up my claim and called it a follower maker, it should've been voyeur instead. My vote and reads history was a disaster. I cleared too many people by sending the hypnotist message and locked me into having to get people to buy that scum would lunch Fanto instead of me. Etc etc.
weemadarthur
Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
Well it looks like I accomplished my personal goal of scaring the shit out of scum. Yay me! And my read on febe was right, so at least I haven’t lost my instincts there. I’m surprised my weirdest breadcrumbs of pretend info were kinda....in the game, lol. Like, acting like I got a message saying sommat. And things.
Pedro
The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
As one of the reviewers for this game, I don't think this game should have been labeled bastard; let me explain why (and I'm not saying that's how every reviewer thinks, it's just how I personally came to this decision). The info you received was sent by another role, and though the role shared innacurate information with you, it was not the gamerunner who circumvented the design to directly lie to you. Monkey herself never deceived players in this game with any of her actions, that role was part of the design from the beginning.
Examples of other roles that share misinformation and are not labeled bastards: Godfathers, or Fruit Vendors when combined with a Watcher (the Watcher might think a meaningful action was done, when it's not the case).
In this community, we only consider games bastards when the gamerunner actively lies to every player in a game without anyone being aware of it. Like, I dunno, them telling the majority for a day phase is 7 when it's actually 1, or them telling the Mafia they can kill someone at night when they can't for no reason.
I think our definitions (found here) hold up, but I agree with monkey and the rest of the modchat that if people think about game classification differently, we could do a better job at showing how it's done here.
Should make roles like that use it or lose it.
Every night you don't use it, one message gets taken away randomly. It doesn't get sent, it just gets taken away.
haha.
Pedro
The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
I hate to do this to you with how you're saying you need to step back (which I think will be good for you), but also
edit: it's going to happen someday, but don't start counting the days pls
edit: it's going to happen someday, but don't start counting the days pls
Fanto
Confirmed Town
It's the combination of me actually being investigated on N1, and being explicitly told this in a PM with highlighted information.
How can I reasonably be expected to consider that part of this was actually false information?
Yes, I know we don't get notified when we get investigated normally, but FB had the perfect explanation for that.
Before that, I was thinking that perhaps the roles in this game worked that way, since it would be very paranoid driven to have everyone be told they were targeted but not by what exactly, just a hint. Weemad said she "felt targeted last night" on D2. I had all these reasons to think these things made sense before Fireblend ever even claimed and made perfect sense of it all in my head.
That is where I'm coming from here. I get told things by the Gamerunner in a PM with highlighted text, and I expect to be able to believe them. In this case, they were not true.
A Godfather giving a Cop a Green Check is definitely similar I suppose, so I'll accept that. I don't think a Fruit Vendor giving a Watcher a false positive is similar though.
---------------------------------
It's whatever though, I'm not mad about it.
I don't know how to play this game is the main takeaway. I need time to just sit around in Spec with full spoilers and watch everything go down and maybe learn some things for once.
How can I reasonably be expected to consider that part of this was actually false information?
Yes, I know we don't get notified when we get investigated normally, but FB had the perfect explanation for that.
Before that, I was thinking that perhaps the roles in this game worked that way, since it would be very paranoid driven to have everyone be told they were targeted but not by what exactly, just a hint. Weemad said she "felt targeted last night" on D2. I had all these reasons to think these things made sense before Fireblend ever even claimed and made perfect sense of it all in my head.
That is where I'm coming from here. I get told things by the Gamerunner in a PM with highlighted text, and I expect to be able to believe them. In this case, they were not true.
A Godfather giving a Cop a Green Check is definitely similar I suppose, so I'll accept that. I don't think a Fruit Vendor giving a Watcher a false positive is similar though.
---------------------------------
It's whatever though, I'm not mad about it.
I don't know how to play this game is the main takeaway. I need time to just sit around in Spec with full spoilers and watch everything go down and maybe learn some things for once.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
As long as it isn't running anytime soon, I'm fine lol.I hate to do this to you with how you're saying you need to step back (which I think will be good for you), but also
edit: it's going to happen someday, but don't start counting the days pls
But that would be the only game that would get me to jump out of this hiatus lol.
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
Zipped was a voyeur.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
<3
Loved seeing your posts in here, you were putting in some good work and asking good questions. I like that you were very skeptical of the Neighbors lol.
to be fair, this was just a HUGE ASS coincidence that no one would have seen coming.
weemadarthur
Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
As coincidental as my spiking a doctor claim....from the doctor!
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I totally get why this stars aligning event would feel that way, but bastard would be more like you get awarded an item that will reveal your item to the thread - except when you use it it actually reveals the opposite alignment even though it’s not true lol That being said we should socialize our definition better, even to reviewers.
Edit: Which to clarify I agree fully this game isn’t bastard, but I know as a designer that sometimes it can feel like you hear conflicting definitions from different sources.
*jots down a note*
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Yeah to be clear, the Godfather example clears it up in my mind, because I wouldn't think of that as being Bastard. It's just the role gives out false info, like this one from FB did.
Fireblend
ABLF
I AM THE HEAT
Winning in that scenario requires a price of sanity.
This guy gets it. He just posted the crazy in the wrong thread :P
saenima
Not Aeleus
I'm sorry Fanto but i can't agree with this. I really like how you play. A lot of times i've looked at posts from you and went 'well shit that's a good catch'. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses ofc but i think you're pretty sharp on a lot of your reads. If there is something i think you could improve is reassessing players you trust when new information comes along, but i'd say that seems to be more of a general malaise, as this game exemplifies. Fire fooled everyone in the game, don't beat yourself over.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Nah, 90% of my play in this game was literally just yelling "Hey you! Give me your reads! Now!" and then just conjecturing about random shit by myself. I feel like I did almost nothing to help Town in this game.
However, me actually calling the "Mentor jokingly votes for their former pupil on D1" as being a Scum move by FB does make me feel good now lol. It was the same thing Sophia did to me.
Nah, as LP said in the game thread, the Scum mantra in this community has become "Never Kill Fanto"
You have now learned why.
I'm glad you ended up using it and I'm amazed at how it worked out. I think it could have been played a billion different ways but a situational approach was definitely best.
I was really impressed that @Ynnek7 made the most of his shots, that the neighbors were suspicious of each other, and definitely happy with the twlight vig and the recruitment mechanic, because it was such a continual cliffhanger. Made spec fun. But I wanted paranoia and I got it. For me, theme is very important in a game and I want a design to reflect it without breaking the design and so I'm pleased here. I hope my next game (Steven Universe!) works out as well.
Fireblend
ABLF
Love it. Someday Fanto, someday.
Z-beat
only here for the flavor
I can understand that. As fun as it was to finally play scum, my anxiety was through the damn roof long after I'd gotten killed. It can be a stressful game for sure.
Z-beat
only here for the flavor
N1 fireblend sent fant a message saying he had been investigated. By sheer coincidence, ynnek had ACTUALLY investigated fant that night, so the choices were either that fireblend was town because of his story checking out or fireblend was scum and somehow knew Ynnek investigated fant WHILE he was doing it. That 2nd one is crazy, and the reality was that we had no idea. The original purpose of that message was to get him to claim, and then it became using it as cover should things get dicey, and theres nothing dicier than a double kill in a game with only 3 scum
Playing as scum is terrible. It's really fun in some of the moments and having people to talk to is great, but it's constant worry if you're already anxious. It's so stressful.
Z-beat
only here for the flavor
Oh I didn't vote for you out of scum necessity. I was extremely tired that day phase from having been in the ER for half a day and then going to work the following day. I just tossed the vote wherever because people kept bothering me to make one. That 5 second laziness was enough to help tank me, it seems
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, I've learned I hate it since it loses most of the things I like about mafia (deduction, investigation, etc.). The only piece it really retains is some of the rollercoaster, unexpected revelations except as scum half the time they just make you frustrated. "Oh great - the person I spent all this time trying to vote out is the doctor" etc. Though winning as scum is often more riveting than winning as town unless you're town in LYLO or something.
Fun (true) fact, when my partner was doing grad school she had to practice procterijg this test on people and scoring said test. It measured a lot of psychological indicators. One of the indicators was anxiousness and I scored a whopping 0 on that section. So yeah, being mafia is easy.
though I agree
oh my god teach me your ways
My dude is like this most of the time but he had like a full on social anxiety meltdown the first D&D session when he was "meeting" folks in the discord. I have NEVER seen it happen. He's always been super chill, never concerned with anything, not worried, no anxiety, and then BAM.
