Nier Role PMs

lokiduck

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IWXImReiTFDyQoCqXeeDA0beBcBO_EkIR-Xlgq7X9fc/edit?usp=sharing

Here is the link to the google doc.

All I need for Geno and OA to do is look over the doc and make suggestions for any changes they thing we need if there are any and mainly make sure the role descriptions make sense. If you see something that is a quick fix like a grammar mistake or inconsistency on one PM that the others don't have, then please feel free to make it.

If you do make any changes, please notify us in this thread with what was changed. The doc should be editable to those who click that link.

Additionally everyone please see post #36 (https://www.outermafia.com/index.php?posts/78551/) in this thread about Jaykob the Hammerer as we need to discuss that real fast.

Thanks everyone!!! I can practically taste that finish line.
 
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lokiduck

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Quick questions based on what I've been doing so far.

1. I think it's important to tell Neun that his results aren't actually relevant to the game right or are we going to let the player think he can game solve? XD

2. Since we are giving the non named characters more info to match our fake claims, having flavors like "The Fisherman in Seafront" should we do it with other characters as well? not so much the main heroes, but what about Hans the Postman or Neun the King's advisor. Can he get away with just being Neun or should we include his title?
 

lokiduck

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LOL It's just now that I'm realizing that Roc and Kail and Beepy's players will have to figure out covers for themselves if anyone asks them to flavor claim. xD

However, I've seen neutrals pull off some crazy stunts so I guess they'll be fine.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Quick questions based on what I've been doing so far.

1. I think it's important to tell Neun that his results aren't actually relevant to the game right or are we going to let the player think he can game solve? XD

2. Since we are giving the non named characters more info to match our fake claims, having flavors like "The Fisherman in Seafront" should we do it with other characters as well? not so much the main heroes, but what about Hans the Postman or Neun the King's advisor. Can he get away with just being Neun or should we include his title?
1. I think we can ease Neun into the role by saying his results are unreliable and neurotic without actually telling him they're misses.

2. Um, yeah, might as well give everyone a sobriquet at that point so we don't have people pointing fingers over it. Let me run to the Nier Wiki and see if Nier actually has one though, lol.
 

lokiduck

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1. I think we can ease Neun into the role by saying his results are unreliable and neurotic without actually telling him they're misses.

True I guess. XD I'm pretty sure we can make it clear to the player that the info is useless by giving them specific rules that they are are breaking or following. If the person sees that someone violated a rule by not sealing a wedding union with a kiss, they should realize pretty quick that their role is completely useless. XD

2. Um, yeah, might as well give everyone a sobriquet at that point so we don't have people pointing fingers over it. Let me run to the Nier Wiki and see if Nier actually has one though, lol.

Like I said we don't have to do it for the main characters but we can at least do it for the minor characters like Hans, Ursula, and even Jaykob. if they don't have a job we can say where they are from

speaking of which in that case Nier could be "Nier of home town" which would match the fake claim for the tavern owner. XD
 

Verelios

Were-elios
I'm going to put ideas here I suppose, tell me to stop whenever, haha. I'm drawing a blank on Nier.

Kaine 'The outcast of Aerie'
 

Verelios

Were-elios
True I guess. XD I'm pretty sure we can make it clear to the player that the info is useless by giving them specific rules that they are are breaking or following. If the person sees that someone violated a rule by not sealing a wedding union with a kiss, they should realize pretty quick that their role is completely useless. XD



Like I said we don't have to do it for the main characters but we can at least do it for the minor characters like Hans, Ursula, and even Jaykob. if they don't have a job we can say where they are from

speaking of which in that case Nier could be "Nier of home town" which would match the fake claim for the tavern owner. XD
Lol, yeah, that's a good point. I feel like tying them to their towns could work if they're not an incredibly popular side character.
 

lokiduck

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Lol, yeah, that's a good point. I feel like tying them to their towns could work if they're not an incredibly popular side character.
I've gone through and added either a job or location name so they match most of the fake claims. We could do it for Nier, but not sure about Weiss and Emil.

I didn't bother with the scum team since they have fake flavor claims but Roc and Kalil also got additions to their titles. XD

Kaine is easy as she can be Kaine the Outsider so her pm reads "You are Kaine the Outsider and you are a miller!" XD
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
just filled in the fake flavor for the claims and I had some fun with it. Let me know if they seem consistent with the other flavor for the actual PMs. While I was writing them, I was thinking of possible fake power claims that would fit them but it might be more fun to see what the mafia team comes up with.

XD
 

Verelios

Were-elios
I've gone through and added either a job or location name so they match most of the fake claims. We could do it for Nier, but not sure about Weiss and Emil.

I didn't bother with the scum team since they have fake flavor claims but Roc and Kalil also got additions to their titles. XD

Kaine is easy as she can be Kaine the Outsider so her pm reads "You are Kaine the Outsider and you are a miller!" XD
Looking good!

The fake claims seem fine too, and I like how you had fun with it.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Looking good!

The fake claims seem fine too, and I like how you had fun with it.
Thanks! If there are any changes you want to make then let me know. I was a bit silly with the fake flavor (the blacksmitth being a good example), but I did that as well with Hans and the fisherman so it'll probably be okay. XD
 

lokiduck

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New Questions!

1. Do we want Nier's player to know all of his abilities in the Role PM, or do we just want to tell them that each night phase they will be given a new ability?
 
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Verelios

Were-elios
Telling them each night would make it less frustrating for them if they can see but can't use the ability, so let's go with that.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Telling them each night would make it less frustrating for them if they can see but can't use the ability, so let's go with that.
I'm tired... so humor me please. Do you mean we tell him all his abilities but that he'll unlock one each night? Or do we not tell him any of his abilities except for his first which is the self-protect and only tell him what they are as he unlocks them?
 

Verelios

Were-elios
I'm tired... so humor me please. Do you mean we tell him all his abilities but that he'll unlock one each night? Or do we not tell him any of his abilities except for his first which is the self-protect and only tell him what they are as he unlocks them?
Lol, I can see how you'd get confused by what I said, it's the latter one. I meant it would be less stressfull if we tell Nier they're multi-shot and they unlock more abilities, but not what they are.
 

lokiduck

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Hmm, how about Grimoire Weiss 'The Legendary Talking Book' or 'The Damn Book'

As for Emil, maybe The Cursed Boy Looking for Salvation

Good suggestions. I looked up Weiss and one of his actual nicknames is the White Book while Noir is the Black Book. Which amuses me greatly since that's what their names translate to.

So which do you prefer "Grimoire Weiss the White Book" or "Grimoire Weiss the Legendary Talking Book"?

For Emil I thought of "Emil the Blindfolded Boy" by I do like Cursed Boy too.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Lol, I can see how you'd get confused by what I said, it's the latter one. I meant it would be less stressfull if we tell Nier they're multi-shot and they unlock more abilities, but not what they are.
True and I believe that falls in line with still being fair as we are just withholding the info until he gets the power... though considering how most of these powers are useless... they aren't going to be all that happy anyways. I'll like @Geno and @OceanicAir weigh in on whether it's fair or not to reveal his powers as he unlocks them.
 

lokiduck

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Next Question! I can't remember if this was previously discussed but do we tell the Role Fisher he has a 33% chance of succeeding on a role check, or do we withhold that info?
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Good suggestions. I looked up Weiss and one of his actual nicknames is the White Book while Noir is the Black Book. Which amuses me greatly since that's what their names translate to.

So which do you prefer "Grimoire Weiss the White Book" or "Grimoire Weiss the Legendary Talking Book"?

For Emil I thought of "Emil the Blindfolded Boy" by I do like Cursed Boy too.
Thematically, I like having them be the White and Black Book.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Next Question! I can't remember if this was previously discussed but do we tell the Role Fisher he has a 33% chance of succeeding on a role check, or do we withhold that info?
Hm. Well, yeah, might as well. It won't really change anything giving them a percentage rather than telling them their action has a chance to fail.

Unless they really hate probability, haha.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Hm. Well, yeah, might as well. It won't really change anything giving them a percentage rather than telling them their action has a chance to fail.

Unless they really hate probability, haha.
Lol it's better to let them suffer by knowing their odds.

I can't wait to write the results to them.

Successes will be "You didn't catch any fish :c But you caught a random piece of paper that says "Sleepwalker???"

Fails will be "You caught a fish!!! 8D Nothing else interesting happened that night."
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I prefer Cursed boy since his life is really...cursed.
Okay then I'll update it c:

Also I know I said they don't need the extra titles, but I was thinking all of the scum team except for the Shadowlord can have extended titles.

Hansel Gretal how have "of Lost Shrine" and Noir is "The black Book" XD

Also changed most of the extended titles to where they are from unless we don't have a name for that place like Sebastian and Emil. It'll be more consistent I feel. If we want to keep the theme, then Kaine could be "of Nowhere" I can look up the area name for Emil's mansion but that doesn't help Weiss's case so I think it's fine.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Lol it's better to let them suffer by knowing their odds.

I can't wait to write the results to them.

Successes will be "You didn't catch any fish :c But you caught a random piece of paper that says "Sleepwalker???"

Fails will be "You caught a fish!!! 8D Nothing else interesting happened that night."
Lol, it would be amazing to make a detailed fishing log to go with it. Now I wish I enjoyed fishing games so I knew how they looked like.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Lol, it would be amazing to make a detailed fishing log to go with it. Now I wish I enjoyed fishing games so I knew how they looked like.
We could say he caught various fish that are in the game at the very least, it'll be like with Neun's rule checking results.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
All the fake claims have locations as the addition, so it makes sense to have quite a few be locations as well, but having a few that are not is fine and makes townies look more suspicious. XD

So far Seb, Emil, Kaine, Weiss, and Shadowlord and Noir (who won't be claiming) don't have locations but that's cool.

Edit: Besides Emil's Mansion is called... Emil's Mansion so Emil the Cursed Boy and Sebastian the Bulter is way better. Though I supposed we could say "Emil of the Old Mansion" and "Sebastian of the Old Mansion"

Edit Edit: Noticed your suggestion to call her Kaine the Outsider of Aerie, and that works as both being accurate and a location title so it works.
 
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lokiduck

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That'll do.
Additionally, we can use the names of the various fish for the fish vending part of his role where a random player will be notified "You were sent a delicious X during the night."

What's also fun is now all the Facade roles will have Facade in their flavor name, meaning that if they full name claim, Roc will know who he needs to get killed. XD
 
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lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Currently updating the doc will all the Role Information, so let me know if anything looks wrong or if you want to change something, you can also change it yourself since the doc is editable.

I especially want feedback on Neun's PM on if it implies that maybe they shouldn't trust their results without outright saying it.
 
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lokiduck

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Totes will do that later today, thanks for making it Loki.
No problem. ;D I'm trying to not hog all this writing for myself, but a lot of this shit keeps coming. If you have anything to input than definitely do.

Like I said I'm unsure about Neun's PM at least.
 

lokiduck

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Best part about this whole location thing is that players may think there is some weird mechanic based around it, like a location cop or something. The truth of the matter is there actually is one in the form of Roc, but it's still amusing.

This is why I like including a much of flavor info as it leaves players guessing what is relevant.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
So we never exactly discussed how Jaykob of the Junkyard the Hammerer works, I realized. I made the original suggestion and we just sort of all agreed do it without much discussion.

Here is the mafia wiki entry on the role.
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hammerer

Basically, if a train is one vote away from being hammered the Jaykob's player will automatically hammer the train, essentially function as a second vote he can't control, if he is voting on a different train or the train in the lead (He's basically still a hammer only DV except he can't control the second vote).

Basically from what I understand the gamewatchers and runners need to keep track of the votes and if a train close to be turbo is spotted they will end the day phase listing the vote that ended it as "The Hammerer," while the player's regular vote stays active... though I realize this makes things annoying for the mods.

There is a modification where the Hammerer privately notifies the mods their hammer vote, putting the onus on them and it'd only require a watcher/runner being around to end the day and again put in hammerer as the last vote... but that usually occurs with scum aligned hammerers.

We could make it that the player has to vote in the thread to do it, since not hiding their identity puts heat on them, but that means every possible hammer requires them to be around which nope not an option either.

If making his hammerer ability a DV shot is too much we could make it that his vote is moved automatically moved from whatever train it was on to the main train, but what happens then if he's on that train already?

I'd like to know what you all think about this and how it should be handled.

The point of this was to give him an anti-town or negative utility role that sort of serves as a counter to Ursula's loved ability as he'd just hammerer if everyone else reaches the normal voting threshold.

When he was a DV only Hammerer he got to choose who to use it on, but as a hammerer it's out of his control and will happen no matter who the main train is on.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Good point. Let me think.

So, the hammerer should still be a passive ability, I'm unsure if we want to make it anonymous, but having them DV their current train if it's one from majority seems fine. As for passively moving off to another almost majority train, that sounds fine too. He has enough autonomy to work around the ability but not control it completely in the case of a double train which works wrll for town and scum.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Good point. Let me think.

So, the hammerer should still be a passive ability, I'm unsure if we want to make it anonymous, but having them DV their current train if it's one from majority seems fine. As for passively moving off to another almost majority train, that sounds fine too. He has enough autonomy to work around the ability but not control it completely in the case of a double train which works wrll for town and scum.
That seems like a pretty good idea then. It functions as a DV but only when he’s on the train already, otherwise it’s just a vote move the only issue there I see is the vote tool as I believe the player has to vote for it to count as them.

It might be easier to just treat the hammer vote as a secret double vote I’ve seen scum use before where it doesn’t come up at all and while that’d confuse the players, I’m not sure that is allowed in non-bastard settings.

I guess one idea is whoever ends the day can add some message like “In their rage, the Hammerer hammered the train without thought.” And the vote doesn’t come up on the tool, but I guess we should wait on Geno or OA’s opinion.
 
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lokiduck

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Lol if this proves too hard we can make Jaykob a Hammer only DV again since he only can do it once to hammer a train since that puts the onus on his player to be there at EOD in order to actually use it.

And if he uses it on Ursula when she has two votes instead of one, he’ll be told to cut that crap out XD
 

lokiduck

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Lol, so let's wait for Geno and OA to pop in for that question.
Sounds like a plan. In that case do you have any comments about the doc?

Especially the command names? XD I kind of just made them up as I went along, and the Shadowlord's are probably the weakest in my opinion.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Sounds like a plan. In that case do you have any comments about the doc?

Especially the command names? XD I kind of just made them up as I went along, and the Shadowlord's are probably the weakest in my opinion.
Oh, we can change them up to be more flavorful. It's handy to know what it does now before we change it though.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Sort of just realized that with the way I worded the tavern owner, shadowlord might be able to claim to be a JOAT like his power says since the player could BS some shit about the flavor indicating the different abilities he has. XD

Also sort of realized that the role fisher will be able to counter any claim other than what they have already if he actually correct hits them.

Using the switcher shot at the right time and the huge player pool might help combat this though.

Also Gretel has an out because she has the same role as Roc which is hunter, she can claim to be a robot hunter if she picks Gideon. XD

Edit: Thinking about it, I actually realized that the scum team might be able to line up their abilities with the fake claims which might counter the role fisher except for the fact that town would naturally be suspicious of town having two roleblockers and two role cops. At the very least it might cause a thunderdome if the town version has been suspicious enough.

Anyways how they match up in my head

Gideon of the Junkyard= Gretel of lost shrine and Hunter, can claim to be a robot hunter. Would freak out Beepy player. XD

The Tavern Owner in Home Town = Shadowlord and JOAT, can claim JOAT abilities are mostly useless and unverifiable. Switcher shot is still usable since town can have that ability sometimes, but only if it's safe to do so.

The Mayor of Aerie= Grimore Noir the Black Book and Role Cop, can claim that he has dealt with enough troublesome outsiders that he knows what profession someone is.

The Blacksmith in Seaport = Hansel of lost shrine the roleblocker, can claim that he's so strong due to his work that he's able to restrain players.

EDIT EDIT: Noir can also claim the blacksmith saying that his time selling weapons has caused him to get a good read of people.

Hansel can claim the Mayor maybe claiming that he nags people to leave until they do which prevents them from being able to get any actually work done.
 
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lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Oh, we can change them up to be more flavorful. It's handy to know what it does now before we change it though.
True, though for most of them I have already changed it from what the normal command says. XD Some are obvious like Kaine's shot being "Stab" but others like "Save my game" might not be obvious at all. XD
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Sort of just realized that with the way I worded the tavern owner, shadowlord might be able to claim to be a JOAT like his power says since the player could BS some shit about the flavor indicating the different abilities he has. XD

Also sort of realized that the role fisher will be able to counter any claim other than what they have already if he actually correct hits them.

Using the switcher shot at the right time and the huge player pool might help combat this though.

Also Gretel has an out because she has the same role as Roc which is hunter, she can claim to be a robot hunter if she picks Gideon. XD

Edit: Thinking about it, I actually realized that the scum team might be able to line up their abilities with the fake claims which might counter the role fisher except for the fact that town would naturally be suspicious of town having two roleblockers and two role cops. At the very least it might cause a thunderdome if the town version has been suspicious enough.

Anyways how they match up in my head

Gideon of the Junkyard= Gretel of lost shrine and Hunter, can claim to be a robot hunter. Would freak out Beepy player. XD

The Tavern Owner in Home Town = Shadowlord and JOAT, can claim JOAT abilities are mostly useless and unverifiable. Switcher shot is still usable since town can have that ability sometimes, but only if it's safe to do so.

The Mayor of Aerie= Grimore Noir the Black Book and Role Cop, can claim that he has dealt with enough troublesome outsiders that he knows what profession someone is.

The Blacksmith in Seaport = Hansel of lost shrine the roleblocker, can claim that he's so strong due to his work that he's able to restrain players.

EDIT EDIT: Noir can also claim the blacksmith saying that his time selling weapons has caused him to get a good read of people.

Hansel can claim the Mayor maybe claiming that he nags people to leave until they do which prevents them from being able to get any actually work done.
I didn't think of that, but you're right that they work really well. It's fair enough though, since it all depends on scum thinking through their fake claims like that.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
I think claiming is always going to be situational though. Most of the claims for NPCs are going to stretch because there's so much leeway in their backstories.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I didn't think of that, but you're right that they work really well. It's fair enough though, since it all depends on scum thinking through their fake claims like that.

Yep that is what makes it work. We have given them the tools to use for a claim, but they are the ones that are going to have to figure out how to use it. If we were to give them a fake flavor claim to go with their power roles, they'd figure out there was a town role cop, so by just giving them fake flavors they get to pick from and can use if they want/need it leaves it up to them whether they try and pass off their powers as town or make a new power up that can be proven wrong if the fisherman gets really lucky.

Good news for them and what sucks for him is the odds are pretty low for his player since they have to correctly guess scum and get a successful check. XD
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Hm, I changed Nier's double vote command to his sealed verse Dark Phantasm.
Sounds very cool c: We can probably do the same for the Shadowlord (naming his powers after abilities he has), though I was debating whether to leave Nier's DV as just a DV command since he has to post it in the game thread. People will figure out what it does when they look at the vote record anyways.

What works about it being Dark Phantasm is that if scum google searches the term, they may realize the player is Nier resulting in Gretel killing him that night or in the future if he gets protected, since I believe protection powers can block a hunter's kill? XD
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Hm, so it's basically a soft confirm that way. What do you think? Would it be better to leave it as DV?
I think it works. After all Nier has a self protect (that could be used if someone protects him LOL) and there is a bodyguard for a bit, a doc, and a 2 shot RB.

It gives Scum an advantage, but only if they are smart about it.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
It just occured to me that I don't know SL's ability names. I was already lvl ~27 when I speared him to death for Ending A, and it only got easier from there.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
It just occured to me that I don't know SL's ability names. I was already lvl ~27 when I speared him to death for Ending A, and it only got easier from there.
I believe they are actually the same abilities as Nier’s since noir and Weiss are basically the opposite of each other and SL uses similar attacks.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Yes. Yes we can.

I think that might have been the original plan actually, XD it was part of why we made them both JOATs.
It was! I just remembered that we stopped when making Nier's PR completely RNG wasn't viable, haha. Good to know that we can use the names.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
It was! I just remembered that we stopped when making Nier's PR completely RNG wasn't viable, haha. Good to know that we can use the names.
Yep it is nice c:

We don’t need many for Nier since I think self protect might be reasonable to stay that way, but SL totally can
 

Verelios

Were-elios
afterall I don’t think nier needs magic just send a message XD
Haha, I like having it be saving though. Though I read it and thought it would be even better if that's the ability name that activates upon the BP getting expended.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Haha, I like having it be saving though. Though I read it and thought it would be even better if that's the ability name that activates upon the BP getting expended.
That’d be fun XD

I made it save my game because duh that
‘S how you save before you get all your saves deleted ;w; but that actually makes sense.

The player will unlock them once per night but maybe we could make sure the message one is the one that goes immediately after the BP is used if he loses it the first or second night which honestly is possble.

I mean the fish vender or sleep walker could set it off
 

OceanicAir

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How will nier find out how to acquire more abilities?

What is the sleepwalker finding out? I'm assuming it is just extra flavor.

Hammerer should just hammer if they are off the wagon and do nothing if they are already on it. Just make sure it isn't active on my/lylo

And fish vendor, with an o

With the gossip hider, it's supposed to be just one hide behind scum that kills them right?

The hunter, I'd call it a bounty hunter, but I wonder if it's too hard. I know people talked about the neutral during stardew valley where they had to predict the death that day. Finding multiple people and getting them offed might be hard, maybe require them to "personally" kill (read: lunched) one after getting them marked? And survivor status if it doesn't work out?

And now I've gone back to consider fake roles since Mafia has them in Conspiracy 2 *sigh*

Flavor is nice though! Having not played the game they seem to be well fleshed out. Not that I care either way, but are you keeping your signature emotes in there loki lol
 
Sorry everyone I have mononucleosis and have been in bed for almost 2 weeks. I'm not getting much better. Very bad timing.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
How will nier find out how to acquire more abilities?

Originally I said "every night you will unlock them" but I wasn't sure about that and changed it. I can change it back to explain how he unlocks the powers with "and for the next two nights you will unlock the other two abilities."

What is the sleepwalker finding out? I'm assuming it is just extra flavor.

It's extra flavor. We are going to send messages like "The player you visited is a great follower of rule X" and "The player you visited has broken rule x" :( With the rules we use largely being the more nonsense rules from this list to make it clear it means absolutely nothing in the game.

For example we will have some have violated rule 2,078 which is just that boys born on December 3rd have to continually watch quicksand. We won't say what the rules are, just their numbers, unless you think it might be a good idea to link to the list since they are going to have to look it up anyways. XD

Hammerer should just hammer if they are off the wagon and do nothing if they are already on it. Just make sure it isn't active on my/lylo

Good idea. That means the player and mods only have to worry about when the hammerer is on a non-train. It might even encourage them to vote on which ever is the leading train just to prevent themselves from having to move there.

And fish vendor, with an o

Fixed it LOL

With the gossip hider, it's supposed to be just one hide behind scum that kills them right?

We thought that made him too much of a soft cop as he'd be able to green check whoever he visited every time he lived. As a result we changed it that he has to visit two non-town (mafia team, two neutrals, and Kaine the miller.) before he dies. He doesn't know the number, so that if he does die, people won't know how many people he visited were actually scum. It'd give some breathing room for scum that way.

That means if his player visited three people and then dies, three of those people are now suspects. If one of them is Kaine, then that makes things even more tricky. c: The suspect grows the more townies his player visits before dying. XD

The hunter, I'd call it a bounty hunter, but I wonder if it's too hard. I know people talked about the neutral during stardew valley where they had to predict the death that day. Finding multiple people and getting them offed might be hard, maybe require them to "personally" kill (read: lunched) one after getting them marked? And survivor status if it doesn't work out?

That does sound reasonable. We could make it that he has the scent check, but he also gets to pick a player to lunch. If that player is lunched that day, he voted for them, and they are from facade he gets to leave the game. The scent check helps him find facade flavors to lunch, but then he has to convince town to lunch them.

However, one of the three facade members is a bodyguard and will die if her player protects someone from a kill. That means he'd largely only have two players to find and lunch making it a bit harder. The one thing going for his player however, is that since the facade players won't know he is hunting them, they may reveal their flavor when talking about their role.

I don't know if the King of Facade would since he is a triggered vigilante, but if neun gets in trouble for sleepwalking, his player may have to out himself.

What do you think about this @Verelios ?

And now I've gone back to consider fake roles since Mafia has them in Conspiracy 2 *sigh*

I suggested in this thread that most of these fake claims actually kind of work with the mafia roles. In this post to be exact.

Sort of just realized that with the way I worded the tavern owner, shadowlord might be able to claim to be a JOAT like his power says since the player could BS some shit about the flavor indicating the different abilities he has. XD

Also sort of realized that the role fisher will be able to counter any claim other than what they have already if he actually correct hits them.

Using the switcher shot at the right time and the huge player pool might help combat this though.

Also Gretel has an out because she has the same role as Roc which is hunter, she can claim to be a robot hunter if she picks Gideon. XD

Edit: Thinking about it, I actually realized that the scum team might be able to line up their abilities with the fake claims which might counter the role fisher except for the fact that town would naturally be suspicious of town having two roleblockers and two role cops. At the very least it might cause a thunderdome if the town version has been suspicious enough.

Anyways how they match up in my head

Gideon of the Junkyard= Gretel of lost shrine and Hunter, can claim to be a robot hunter. Would freak out Beepy player. XD

The Tavern Owner in Home Town = Shadowlord and JOAT, can claim JOAT abilities are mostly useless and unverifiable. Switcher shot is still usable since town can have that ability sometimes, but only if it's safe to do so.

The Mayor of Aerie= Grimore Noir the Black Book and Role Cop, can claim that he has dealt with enough troublesome outsiders that he knows what profession someone is.

The Blacksmith in Seaport = Hansel of lost shrine the roleblocker, can claim that he's so strong due to his work that he's able to restrain players.

EDIT EDIT: Noir can also claim the blacksmith saying that his time selling weapons has caused him to get a good read of people.

Hansel can claim the Mayor maybe claiming that he nags people to leave until they do which prevents them from being able to get any actually work done.

By having them claim their actual role with the fake flavors, it'd serve as a counter to the role fisher if he actually gets a hit on them. And of course scum doesn't have to take our fake flavor suggestions. Geno gave scum fake flavor and roles to claim, but some scum still didn't use them so it's on them if the role fisher actually gets a hit. XD

Flavor is nice though! Having not played the game they seem to be well fleshed out. Not that I care either way, but are you keeping your signature emotes in there loki lol

Thank you c: I wanted people to understand their characters if they haven't played the game and there are some jokes in there that players might get like the blacksmith's flavor text.

As for the emotes, I left the ones on the fisherman because I felt it fit him pretty good. XD Same with the tavern owner as well. If you want me to remove them I can tho :<

Sorry everyone I have mononucleosis and have been in bed for almost 2 weeks. I'm not getting much better. Very bad timing.

D: Get well soon and focus on that. We can focus on other stuff while we wait.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Sorry everyone I have mononucleosis and have been in bed for almost 2 weeks. I'm not getting much better. Very bad timing.
I hope you feel better Geno. Don't mind, and definitely take good care of your health.
That does sound reasonable. We could make it that he has the scent check, but he also gets to pick a player to lunch. If that player is lunched that day, he voted for them, and they are from facade he gets to leave the game. The scent check helps him find facade flavors to lunch, but then he has to convince town to lunch them.

However, one of the three facade members is a bodyguard and will die if her player protects someone from a kill. That means he'd largely only have two players to find and lunch making it a bit harder. The one thing going for his player however, is that since the facade players won't know he is hunting them, they may reveal their flavor when talking about their role.

I don't know if the King of Facade would since he is a triggered vigilante, but if neun gets in trouble for sleepwalking, his player may have to out himself.

What do you think about this @Verelios ?
Yeah, that's another direction we can go in. So Roc:

1. Scent marks a Facade member.
2. Has to be on their lunch train.
3. If fails or becomes unable to complete 2, becomes a survivor.

That seems kind of fair. Hm...in Bloodborne Mafia the neutral had a list of roles they had to 'get lunched' and it worked okay. I think we can work with this.

And being a bodyguard doesn't necessarily mean they'll die immediately so I see it as a game of odds.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I hope you feel better Geno. Don't mind, and definitely take good care of your health.

Yeah, that's another direction we can go in. So Roc:

1. Scent marks a Facade member.
2. Has to be on their lunch train.
3. If fails or becomes unable to complete 2, becomes a survivor.

That seems kind of fair. Hm...in Bloodborne Mafia the neutral had a list of roles they had to 'get lunched' and it worked okay. I think we can work with this.

And being a bodyguard doesn't necessarily mean they'll die immediately so I see it as a game of odds.
True. Roc could mark Fyra and try to get her lunched before she dies, only for her to die, so he has to find someone else to lunch.

I think we wanted to Roc to kill all the facade members origianlly because it fits his flavor better that way, but having it like this way makes it way more fair to the player, while not making it easier.
 
I feel better, checked the doc and everything seems fine, you guys can do the hammerer and Roc either way, I think it doesn't ruin the balance. The only thing not sure of 100% is the grammar of the PM's because English isn't my first language so there might've been a mistake I didn't catch there, if so sorry about that.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I feel better, checked the doc and everything seems fine, you guys can do the hammerer and Roc either way, I think it doesn't ruin the balance. The only thing not sure of 100% is the grammar of the PM's because English isn't my first language so there might've been a mistake I didn't catch there, if so sorry about that.
Thanks then for everything. c:

I think the new plan we have both for the hammerer and Roc are good, and the hammerer's at least makes it less of a hassle for the mods. XD We'll see what OA thinks.

Writing wise, it's okay there. XD We got four sets of eyeballs looking at this thing so surely we'll catch all of the mistakes. I've read through them at least 5-6 times making changes here or there so I'm probably not any help if there are anymore because it all looks good to me. c:
 

Verelios

Were-elios
We made it @lokiduck
source.gif
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
https://giphy.com/gifs/mrw-nintendo-switch-fBicdJRegLYiI
Um, maybe make the princess say if killed by non-town instead of outright scum since that could lead to assumptions of non deadly neutrals but other than that it looks good to go!

And again, sorry all for the extended time it took for this process to finish. I really hope it's a super successful game!
Okay will do. XD

Thank you so much guys ;w;

LOL so does Kaine's vig kill count as non-town because she's a miller or is that a step too far. XD I assume it would be a step too far, since her status is mainly as a foil for the gossip hider. XD
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I believe we agreed earlier that it doesn't count because then it'd be an actual towns player fault for mafia receiving the punishment XD

it was just a funny idea though.

we did it though \o/ Does that mean we can get this game scheduled???
 
I believe we agreed earlier that it doesn't count because then it'd be an actual towns player fault for mafia receiving the punishment XD

it was just a funny idea though.

we did it though \o/ Does that mean we can get this game scheduled???
Already contacted them to put it in schedule
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Glad I could help, I hope to see more games from both of you in the future.
Thanks! And no worries about that, we got two we've been working on and in fact once we make some tweaks we'll probably be submitting it for review.

Plus we got even more ideas. XD
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
So I just realized we didn't edit Roc's Role PM to reflect the changes we made. Let me know if it looks all right.

Also we discussed about making him a survivor if he fails to kill one of the facade members, but how would we explain that in the PM?
 
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Verelios

Were-elios
I think leaving it as exactly that should be fine. If Roc doesn't 'hunt' any of Facade's members and is no longer able to, they become a survivor whose WC is surviving the game.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I think leaving it as exactly that should be fine. If Roc doesn't 'hunt' any of Facade's members and is no longer able to, they become a survivor whose WC is surviving the game.
Yeah I guess we can notify them if all the facade members die before they win.

I was worried for a moment about letting them know that piece of information, but considering they are a neutral it doesn't really matter. We could even have a special flavor saying that "All of the Facade citizens in the fog are dead, and while you didn't actually kill any of them, you were satisfied with that at first. However, when you tried to leave the fog like you originally going to, you couldn't find the exit.

As a result your Win Con has changed. You win if you survive until the end of the game."

Also I think it'd be fun that if a facade member lives to the end of the game, his player loses no matter what. XD

Basically he has to win by targeting and killing a facade member via a lunch or survive the game if every facade member dies. XD
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Haha, that makes sense. It's a fun WC because he'll have a chance even at endgame if a Facade member lives and/or Roc is a NK target.
 
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