Bracket Towers

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Leo

Quack Pack King
Both mao and bojack both being confused about the vote and then jumping to the neeks train is highly sus to me when I look at it. They both had the same resposne practically, but then Bojack reaffirms and quotes Mao which would be a weird thing to do as scum. I think at least one of them may be scum but maybe not both.

I'm with you there, i actually think bojack isn't scum because maol is there with him. I don't think they would throw that act together (but it isn't impossible, maol even has said he could do something like that scum earlier).

I expect a new player to see a wagon disbanding and automatically think the other one is scum, but not maol. That reaction was scummy.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
This is Bojack's response to Fate asking for a kill list earlier in the day:
Leo Hedin Zipped Raz Hobo

Later in the day he says he is not feeling the neki vote, likes sneeks logic and zipped hasn't posted enough to vote for him. Doesn't like malus logic on Neki and votes Malus.

The wagon leaves malus and goes to Razmos, but then he switches to Sneeks even though he liked Sneeks logic and he had Razmos on his kill list earlier in the day.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
It's tough to say that mao acting out of character for an experienced player or a new player (bojack) actively jumping on a train despite going against his earlier reads is more suspicious at tihs point.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I wonder if Aeleus knows we're dead and is just letting us speculate so when the day posts come, all this discussion would have been naught. Don't you dare Aeleus.
 
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Leo

Quack Pack King
This is Bojack's response to Fate asking for a kill list earlier in the day:
Leo Hedin Zipped Raz Hobo

Later in the day he says he is not feeling the neki vote, likes sneeks logic and zipped hasn't posted enough to vote for him. Doesn't like malus logic on Neki and votes Malus.

The wagon leaves malus and goes to Razmos, but then he switches to Sneeks even though he liked Sneeks logic and he had Razmos on his kill list earlier in the day.

Good catch. So the question is are maol and Bojack both scum or only one of them? Lol
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I wonder if Aeleus knows we're dead and is just letting us speculate so when the day posts come, all this discussion would have been naught. Don't you dare Aeleus.

I'd like to think that's unlikely but at the same time the "town is fucked" law says we caught scum D1 so two townies have to die today lol
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I want to give mao and bojack credit for being better mafia players and not getting swept up in a last minute wagon on their teammates but the evidence is really damning and if they both turn out town I'd be genuinely surprised.
 
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Leo

Quack Pack King
I want to give mao and bojack credit for being better mafia players and not getting swept up in a last minute wagon on their teammates but the evidence is really damning and if they both turn out town I'd be genuinely surprised.

The thing it was out of nowhere, scum probably freaked out when Raz got in danger. No one could have predicted it, they had a solid town x town situation going.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
correction, the list bojack posted was a list of quieter people who could possibly be scum. I misread his post, rip.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Zipped posts really not inspiring a ton of confidence in me. No real insight, no real surprise and nothing of substance. Doesn't even seem worried that he was a potential wagon yesterday. I mean maybe this is how he plays? I was sweating bullets at 3 votes and he just comes into Day 2 without a care in the world.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Also EC's analysis ended up being least amount of votes = I will vote for them. I'm not gonna post anything in the thread because it's just going make me go on a rant lol
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
God lemme be right when I tunnel someone, only this once lol

I just don't see town!maol shifting to Sneeks like that, it doesn't make sense.

He says she was sus as fuck, but he never said that yesterday and he even seemed to agree for most of the day the case against her was bs.

Then he says he wanted to kill her for an info vote, but that's bs, if you go back to the vote he was really worked up, saying she was being scummy, and changing his vote to her. That is not town wanting an info flip, no one gets that worked up over an info flip.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Also EC's analysis ended up being least amount of votes = I will vote for them. I'm not gonna post anything in the thread because it's just going make me go on a rant lol

Feign is like from another world to me, and EC is from another galaxy lol They constantly baffle me with what they say and I don't even know if that makes them look scummy, towny or whatever.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Zipped posts really not inspiring a ton of confidence in me. No real insight, no real surprise and nothing of substance. Doesn't even seem worried that he was a potential wagon yesterday. I mean maybe this is how he plays? I was sweating bullets at 3 votes and he just comes into Day 2 without a care in the world.

After the last events, I'm more null on Zipped. He seems to just be inactive. Being relaxed is a good sign, I think if he was scum he would be coming D2 with some spins to cover for his mates.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I am impressed with Hobo's analysis, took me a while to read but i generally agree with him. Feel pretty good about him too.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
After the last events, I'm more null on Zipped. He seems to just be inactive. Being relaxed is a good sign, I think if he was scum he would be coming D2 with some spins to cover for his mates.

Fair point. EC and Zipped's 'town' play isn't exactly inspiring at the moment though. EC still refuses to give out his reads despite an abundance of evidence from yesterday lol. Zipped is just somewhere in vacation land though along with LP lurking from the shadows.

I am impressed with Hobo's analysis, took me a while to read but i generally agree with him. Feel pretty good about him too.

I like his analysis too, brought up some good points. His analysis did bring up that Bojack/Maol voted every close to another and that would come off as very suspicious and very scummy but I don't think scum had any time to not look sus if they wanted to save Razmos.

How are you feeling about maol after arguing with him?
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
How are you feeling about maol after arguing with him?

He didn't address any of the points I made against him in my first post, instead he was trying to make me back off by saying "you can play better than this" or shading me as possibly scum, so I can't say I've changed my mind.

I'd like him to explain why he thought it was so important to lunch Sneeks instead of Raz when he had voted for Raz earlier, and he didn't do that yet. I don't buy the "Sneeks was a better info flip" cause it doesn't align with how he was acting in eod saying Sneeks was scummy.

I'd like Sneeks to put more pressure on him cause I think if we're going to lunch him today, she's the person everyone will follow, so I'm waiting.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Fair point. EC and Zipped's 'town' play isn't exactly inspiring at the moment though. EC still refuses to give out his reads despite an abundance of evidence from yesterday lol. Zipped is just somewhere in vacation land though along with LP lurking from the shadows.

I'm okay with lunching any of them today too, despite not having super strong feelings they are scum. I actually think EC is probably town, but I think scum can and will use his posts to sidetrack discussions.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
How are you feeling about turm?

I'm undecided, he hasnt done anything I didn't like, and he seems agreeable for the most part. I'm not a fan of the votes and reads on him.

Feign says he's convinced turm is scum, but that could be one of his ploys, so I don't even want to ask him why.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I mean I find it a weird narrative that we're not more suspicious of the people who went back onto the Neeks train after the Razmos push started, given how inconsistent maol and bojack were on their thoughts on Neeks. I feel like that's the obvious place to look, but is it too obvious?

Like turmoil EoD was bad but so was Bojack and Maol so I'm not sure why we're pushing for turmoil.

Both Bojack and Maol going after you is odd to do as scum team mates unless Maol put him up to it. I'm more willing to think Maol may be more town than Bojack because Maol absolutely wanted Malus out so he did not trust voting the same train as Malus. Tunneling has been popular by scum in the past few games so its hard to say, I think tunneling has to be considered NAI in ERA mafia at this point.

Maol also hasn't done any solving to move votes and scrutiny off of him so it's worrying, he needs to present a case on someone else.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I am weary of Fando, he was really eager to jump votes without explaining his reasoning. Like for me I struggle moving votes but he quickly rotated through them.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Fate is also lacking his usual spunk and rapid posting style. He also seems to be avoiding the harder targets and going for the low hanging fruit like EC. Like why isn't he pumped up about going after maol or bojack who came off as super guilty looking. EC is such a weird place to go because EC is coming off as very disinterested town rather than a worried scum. The fact that he hasn't gone in hard on someone gives me scummy vibes.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Zipped, LP, EC and Fate are coming off very disinterested based on the most exciting day 1 you could get lol
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I feel like that's the obvious place to look, but is it too obvious?

I think scum gets away with a lot on this premisse. Sometime scum will just do scummy things, I don't think this should be an argument on its own. I'm yet to see maol providing good convincing reasons to do what he did, and as you said, just contributing today instead of just playing defense. I agree with you that he and Bojack probably aren't scum mates (but not impossible), but my money is on maol here.

Like turmoil EoD was bad but so was Bojack and Maol so I'm not sure why we're pushing for turmoil.

Yeah, that's where I am too. turm acted weird, he misspelled the vote, okay, right, but what about maol and Bojack, no one think they were sus at all?
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I am weary of Fando, he was really eager to jump votes without explaining his reasoning. Like for me I struggle moving votes but he quickly rotated through them.
Fate is also lacking his usual spunk and rapid posting style. He also seems to be avoiding the harder targets and going for the low hanging fruit like EC. Like why isn't he pumped up about going after maol or bojack who came off as super guilty looking. EC is such a weird place to go because EC is coming off as very disinterested town rather than a worried scum. The fact that he hasn't gone in hard on someone gives me scummy vibes.

Agree and agree.

Yesterday i was sus of Fando, but then when Raz flipped scum I was confused and thought I had been wrong. But then he said himself today that he's a mad busser lol I'm keeping an eye on him.

Fate has been different, yeah, at this point he would be firing questions at everyone and here he's mostly fluff and his game doesn't feel consistent. Him being the last vote on Raz fits him being scum.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Let's say we vote either Bojack or Maol and they flip town, you think that increases the likelihood of the other one being scum? Right now both are going for you, maol out of spite and bojack out of some late notion of you being a scum busser vote.

If we flip turmoil and he is town, we just have to go back to the bojack maol discussion again so I'm not sure flipping him is helpful. I guess we would know his scum reading on zipped is genuine?
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Let's say we vote either Bojack or Maol and they flip town, you think that increases the likelihood of the other one being scum? Right now both are going for you, maol out of spite and bojack out of some late notion of you being a scum busser vote.

If we flip turmoil and he is town, we just have to go back to the bojack maol discussion again so I'm not sure flipping him is helpful. I guess we would know his scum reading on zipped is genuine?

At least one of them is going to flip scum, I think. I don't think they're teamed, so one flipping town wouldn't excuse the other, but if that happens, I don't think town will have the energy to keep going on that track. I'm hoping there's a vig in the game and they will shoot one of them next night.

Zeke came in with some good analysis, and I have to admit I get the case against turm now that he presented it. I thought it was just about the misspelling, but the timing of his votes was really off and wasn't consistent with what he had been saying. Between Zipped and turm, I'm definitely leaning on turm being scum.

Between maol, bojack and turm, I think there's a good chance town will hit scum.

The only thing that is bothering me is how quiet the thread is. If we're on the right track, it should be louder. On the other hand, few people are being assertive on their suspicious and it's early in the day, but still... I would think scum would be trying to do some derailing.

Maybe their morale is low and they're frustrated because the game just started and they failed twice, so they're not very dedicated. I felt a bit of that low energy in my exchange with maol.

Or... We're on the wrong track and they're just watching and giving a little push lol
 

Neki

Bought a book once
How do you feel about turmoil/bojack being the vote leaders right now? Feel like those are the two with the most attention. I don't see maol getting voted off nless you really want to go hard to push on maol, but there is some push back on Feign in that regard.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I think I'm okay with flipping Bojack and if he's town then it's unfortunate. There is not a lot of resistance in the air like you said so I don't know to take that as a defeated air of attitude or an air of we're completely off-base so I definitely agree with you.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Not sure how I feel about Fate after he reverts back to his normal playstyle after I call him on it. I'm gonna leave him at null read for me at least.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
How do you feel about turmoil/bojack being the vote leaders right now? Feel like those are the two with the most attention. I don't see maol getting voted off nless you really want to go hard to push on maol, but there is some push back on Feign in that regard.

Maol still has more votes on him, but EC is there and his vote didn't seem too serious, so that could change.

I think it's still early on the day and there's still a chance that maol gets voted out, but even if there isn't, i don't want to move my vote from him now because i want to see what kind of resistance happens if he's one of the leading wagons by eod. The best situation I think it's having maol x bojack since they're likely not teamed, cause if one flips scum, we will have more info on the other by seeing how the votes went.

If maol isn't viable though, i will vote for bojack or turm. I bet at least one of them will be a viable wagon.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I think I'm okay with flipping Bojack and if he's town then it's unfortunate. There is not a lot of resistance in the air like you said so I don't know to take that as a defeated air of attitude or an air of we're completely off-base so I definitely agree with you.

Yeah, we will flip town inevitably, it happens. The important is to make sure we will get info from the flip. I haven't reread all of bojack yet, but i want to have a clear picture of what he thinks of maol and turm
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I wish maol would present a reasonable argument on who to vote instead of getting extremely angry that we want to vote him because he looked suspect yesterday lol.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I wish maol would present a reasonable argument on who to vote instead of getting extremely angry that we want to vote him because he looked suspect yesterday lol.

I'm getting frustrated at this. He hasn't done anything D2 beside aggroing people for being sus of him because he acted scummy yesterday. At this point, people should consider voting him out even if they think he might be town because his flip will give us more info than keeping him alive, and then they can look at me or Hedin or I don't know.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Fando's read list is so bad I want to vote him off for it

It is.

He has Feign as solid town, then Zipped, LP, Fate and maol at leaning town and I have no idea where these reads came from.

He says here

What? I didn’t say we should vote for the players on the Raz wagon and I’m pushing for either of you now, just that I feel good on these players like most of the thread. Why are you so defensive jeez.

That he feels good about the Raz voters (which is suppose would include me), but then a few posts later he puts me in the leaning scum list.

Also, he has bojack as scum and maol as town, and me as scum and hedin as town, and i think these pairs of players have similar histories and opinions, so it's surprising he feels opposite about them.

Yesterday he put a list that I thought was weird too. Nothing Fando has done in the game has made much sense to me.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Btw I'm sorry I'm probably endangering us both today, i just think I really have to push this. I still believe they don't have any solid foundation against me and town will see it when things get serious by eod, so i don't think I will die, but who knows.

I see at least I'm getting now the reaction i was expecting that wasn't there yesterday.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
And that might be omgus but I'm side eyeing feign now.

He opened D2 being like "omg i can't believe you're going after maol" like that is some absurd or dumb play. Since then, if you read his posts, he has been sidelining everything in a way that he could come full defense force on maol like he did now. He even says maol might be scum, classic scum non commitment.

I won't point any of that now because it won't sound good and i will look reactive, but i will bring it up in a better moment.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I understand where you are coming from, maol is a constant question mark and yes he is the obvious choice but he is acting scummy. If he is town then it's unfortunate but it sounds like feign is just trying to delay maol death for some reason. Why does it matter if he dies today or tomorrow, the flip gives us the same info
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Fate is being super sus. Unfortunately I haven't played with him as scum, so it's hard to be sure.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I don't like Fate/Fando right now personally. Fando is either playing as really short-sighted town and Fred is being weird again lol.
 
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Neki

Bought a book once
I mean if you want to go maol today I don't mind voting there. The only other competing wagons I would be fine with is Fando/Maol/Bojack. Turmoil is a ? but Sneeks says that's because turmoil always acts scummy.
 
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Leo

Quack Pack King
I mean if you want to go maol today I don't mind voting there. The only other competing wagons I would be fine with is Fando/Maol/Bojack. Turmoil is a ? but Sneeks says that's because turmoil always acts scummy.

It is true that turm is hard to read, he does look scummy very often and turns out he wasn't.

I can't move my vote now without looking bad, so i have to stay at maol at least until other options are more viable by eod.

I'd say vote for the person you have consistently read, and if necessary you move it later based on the situation. I'm on the same page as you, and there is def scum between Fando/mail/bojack, I'm fine voting any of them today.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Fando voting for turmoil, turmoil voting for bojack, zipped voting for turmoil. Hedin voting for maol. I don't trust any of these people!
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I'd really like to push on maol but feign has really pushed it aside. Fando and Bojack are the only viable wagons so far
 

Neki

Bought a book once
What's the plan at EoD if you're still a top wagon? Am I claiming green check on you?
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
What's the plan at EoD if you're still a top wagon? Am I claiming green check on you?

I don't know if that would work because you said a few posts ago you didn't know if I was town or not :/

We can try, but it might backfire. I can also claim a PR, but everyone has claimed a PR at this point so not sure it will work either.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
There seems to be a doctor in the game, so as a last resource we could claim lovers. If the doctor tries to protect one of us, it's 50/50 scum will lose a NK. We probably will end up dead eventually, but we could buy some time for town.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I mean I said it to deflect any association between us but you're right, does look bad in hindsight if I claim green check. If we claim lovers it makes sense why I would say that because I don't want to be seen as partners with you.

I think we should just claim lovers at that point. It looks like the Fando train is picking up steam so we might to live to see another day.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I was away for bit and thought would come back to a lot of new stuff but no lol game is kinda slow
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I think I'm gonna vote Fando. I feel really good about most people on his wagon, and i have a gut feeling between bojack and him, it's more likely he's gonna be scum.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
What do you think of Fate/Fando as partners? That sound too easy?

They're both scummy, the only thing is that they were both on Raz yesterday. Granted Fate only moved there when it was decided, so it's still possible.

I don't like Fate in this game so far.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Okay well I'll leave the judgement call to you if you feel in danger then. I do like the people on the Fando vote so I can definitely see both sides.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I'm gonna vote Fando now, let's see how the votes change. If there's no resistance, he's probably town and i can maybe change to bojack later, but if the votes change a lot he might be scum and that might give us some info.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I've just read them saying he will move to me if Fando is leading, so i have to reassess lol also will keepi a mental note of this, it's possible they're scum together

Let's also not forget Fate votes for me without any reason ages ago, said his vote wasn't serious, but there he is, still. He's being really scummy.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Seems it's between bojack and Fando now, unless some crazy shenanigan happens like yesterday.

I think there's a good chance we hit scum between them. And if bojack flips scum, I'm gonna have to reassess the game cause im scum reading most people in his wagon.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Maybe you should? At this point I don't think bojack is scum unless we've been completely wrong about this game
 

Neki

Bought a book once
this is so complicated. it looks bad on me since I built a whole case on bojack but all the people voting for him are the people I am scum reading.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
But go with your gut! There's a chance we're wrong too and Bojack is the right train
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Feign is trying really hard not to make Fando happen. Has suggested zipped (???), Now turmoil.

I'm getting confident Fando is scum
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I somewhat didn't believe Fando's claim because I feel like Aeleus would have given us all named characters if it was Transistor.
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
I don't know. Turm might be scum, but there was so much resistance to Fando, most of the people voting for bojack went to turm...
 

Neki

Bought a book once
god why didn't we just go maol, with sneeks dead this is gonna so hard to ever push on maol
 

Leo

Quack Pack King
Do we know it's delayed and not some daytime power?

Delayed i meant we thought it would happen today and it happened now lol

I don't know what game mechanic could be involved, it's weird for scum to have a day kill power in a normal game, and i don't think a day vig would shoot sneeks... Idk
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I mean we'll see what Feign has to say tomorrow about Maol. I didn't like how this EoD went. If we thought bojack was clear I feel like testing maol would have been better. I liked all the people on the Fando train and then they jumped to the turmoil train.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I mean if we get NK'd that's a swing of 4 townies in one cycle. gonna be a bloodbath if that happens
 
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