Spectator Thread Spectator chat
- Thread starter Geno
- Start date
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
what if the posters are already dead people :P
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I'll kill them again lol
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
so your game will be volcano island 2? :thinking:
Pedro
The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
The reason this spectator chat was unavailable to dead players is because HvV had 3 different methods of bringing someone back to life: the Dragon Balls, the TARDIS, and by killing Cell after he had absorbed players. So they needed to remain spoiler-free in case they were called back.
Nicole is here because Geno requested so, as it would be unlikely for a Neutral to be revived, though the odds of that happening were higher than 0%. Her post in the OT confirming her presence here created an issue, as people shouldn't know that a dead player was given access to here.
In order to avoid further problems we decided to strictly follow rule 36 and forbid access to any player until the game ended, even after all the reviving tools had been used, since lifting the "ban" would indirectly confirm that there were no more ways of reviving someone, and that's information about the design that living players shouldn't have access to.
Nicole is here because Geno requested so, as it would be unlikely for a Neutral to be revived, though the odds of that happening were higher than 0%. Her post in the OT confirming her presence here created an issue, as people shouldn't know that a dead player was given access to here.
In order to avoid further problems we decided to strictly follow rule 36 and forbid access to any player until the game ended, even after all the reviving tools had been used, since lifting the "ban" would indirectly confirm that there were no more ways of reviving someone, and that's information about the design that living players shouldn't have access to.
The rules are in place for a reason: people can't keep their mouths shut. If there's a way to revive, we don't need to tilt the game with outside knowledge that revives are over. Whose fun are we measuring here - fun for people to yammer outside the game, or the fun and experience of players? Because the latter should win out every time.
Hecht
Like dubstep for my bootyhole
I have not. Google is awesome.
I was!
I was desperate, dammit!
NO SHIT
No my role pm said immune to night kill only, also at that point and even before that I was convinced that Fran was the only female character in the game and thus since he died I thought was vanilla since D2?
Hecht
Like dubstep for my bootyhole
At the time we had the info from Includios that there was "1 scum and 1 neutral remaining." That was Muffin and Sorian. When the three disappeared came back, one of them had to be a non-town. Fandorin was NK'd, Sawneeks was green-checked early on. LP was all that was remaining.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
If you (and whatever MafiEra overseers) believe this then it should be codified as a rule in general. There was all this talk at the beginning of the game due to this. If it’s a spoiler to know no after death mechanics exist anymore than it’s a spoiler to know they exist in the first place. All games would follow a rule that stipulates spec thread access for game entrants would only occur in private discussions or something.
I disagree that it's a specific spoiler beforehand; all it tells plays is that something strange is going on with the game. But once we learn within the game that resurrection is possible (among other things, with the specific disappearance of players here), ending that rule is a spoiler. Obviously I was not involved in planning and prep for this game, since I was playing, so I was not involved in the handling of this, but I think there's plenty of room for game-specific rules. Just that once implemented they need to be consistently handled.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
But in this instance resurrection was not even a focal point of the game. It’s not like Volcano Island where the entire crux of the game was built around an after death phase. Codifying it as a rule would’ve easily allowed it to be kept an actual surprise as opposed to it being openly expected prior to game start. It also would have avoided even the chance of ruining the game players enjoyment.
Pedro
The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
I agree with you, Natiko, that it would have been a bigger surprise, but I disagree that rule 36 acted as a spoiler; it was vague enough just to raise people's expectations. And like Monkey said, lifting that rule once it was in place would definitely be a bigger problem.
Furthermore, the rule was requested by Geno himself, when he also said a dead thread for dead players didn't need to exist. Since none of us fully knew the design at that point we all agreed to those requests, and even if I had known the setup back then I'd have agreed to them as well.
Furthermore, the rule was requested by Geno himself, when he also said a dead thread for dead players didn't need to exist. Since none of us fully knew the design at that point we all agreed to those requests, and even if I had known the setup back then I'd have agreed to them as well.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I’m not arguing he shouldn’t have been granted his rule. Any game runner that has a reasonable request should be accommodated since they’re taking the time to run it. This specific instance though felt different than other examples where the entire crux of a game demanded rule changes such as Volcano Island or even Love Boat. He definitely should have been granted his request, I was more thinking that it could be accounted for in general going forward instead though. There’s certainly a possibility that a more ‘normal’ game in the future could have a reviver role. In a non-bastard super crazy town game if that rule pops up it will almost assuredly spoil it.
Pedro
The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
I wasn't either, I was only explaining how the rule came to be. I get your point now; I don't remember the last time we had a dead thread and a spec thread so the thought never crossed my mind, but if a similar mechanic appears in a future game I'll remember this convo with you.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, in general if you just advise people to not reference discussions from the spec thread or to openly invite players to it then anyone that exits a game and requests it you can just respond to them privately. Something along those lines would at least cover most bases.
Muffin
is being held hostage by Sammi
Would have also been easy to look at my earlier posts about LP. Sorian was completely right there, I had it easier to pick out liars. And I said a few times that I didn't believe the GoT claim.
I had so many moments of "this is exactly what happened but town hasn't actually put two and two together and I'm just going to get attention if I do it"
LIKE THE FACT THAT BRAZIL DIDNT SWITCH ME
It's so freaking weird that not a single soul tried to figure out what my item (which I had) did, while uberscum mechanics were all people were talking about.
@heymonkey
fun of the players is the main point. being able to shitpost in spec thread is part of the experience. there were more players dead and unable to share their thoughts than living ones, who has priority here?
Telling people to not talk about the spec thread should be sufficient.
I don't see how the handling of the dead/spec or shutting down shitposts made the experience more fun
Anyway my opinion tends to go against the stream here more often than not
Seems like no one else had a problem
fun of the players is the main point. being able to shitpost in spec thread is part of the experience. there were more players dead and unable to share their thoughts than living ones, who has priority here?
Telling people to not talk about the spec thread should be sufficient.
I don't see how the handling of the dead/spec or shutting down shitposts made the experience more fun
Anyway my opinion tends to go against the stream here more often than not
Seems like no one else had a problem
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I think you have this wrong. They knew you had the Chaos Emerald, no one knew it was specifically your item. And the item didn't leave the game on your death either.
And town already knew it was in possession of a mafia member because FEP didn't have it on his death. Other than you having it there was nothing to suggest it was your item or what your upgrade power would be.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I agree with you Gorlak. Once someone was 100% dead they should get a PM to enter the spec thread and told to not discuss it anywhere else.
That keeps the mechanics hidden and allows people to participate.
Except then I killed Tearable the next day and Geno specifically posted that Brazil could use the item and what it did and no one tried to figure it out since Geno was super vague.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
It is still almost impossibe to guess what Brazil got from the Chaos Emerald. Something to make searching for Silver easier or literally a hundred other possibilities
What? Geno specifically said that it turned him into a Nexus, its just no one actually bothered to go look up what that meant.
Nah. Geno literally said the item could turn me "into Nexus Dr. Infinitevus", but there were only one or two passing comments about not knowing what that meant before the subject was dropped entirely.
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
Is Nexus Wesker the same thing?
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
L_P did you know Nexus was a role?
Yes, so you would have been ascetic just like you dreamed at the end :P
But it's not as simple as fun/not fun. Fun of active players or players who could be brought back trumps spec thread fun and has to be first priority.
I do agree with this - there were definitely people who could have been let into spec as opportunities for rez disappeared. Overseers are discussing some of the ideas that have been presented here now. As for what and how things were done here, can't speak to that, as I was involved in the planning or handling.
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
I didn't really pay attention to the whole Brazil bit since I was mainly skimming to see if Muffin had died yet.
I assumed the Uroboros Vial would've helped me in some way but I had no way of getting it.
Curses.
Sawneeks
little green dog
To be honest it sounded like a name, not a modifier for a role. "Nexus Dr. Infinitevus" sounds like a Sonic villain name.
Sawneeks
little green dog
So I wasn't in that discussion/modchat about keeping people out of spec thread and take this with a grain of salt.
From what it looked like to me, dead players obviously couldn't go to spec because of the potential for revival. Once it was discovered that revival was a mechanic, the knowledge that people can come back is always a possibility in living player's minds. To suddenly remove the restriction of denying access to the Spec Thread can give enough hints to living Players that there will be no more Revival Mechanics, meaning there is no point for dead players to be held in limbo. This could also change potential actions/beliefs of living Players and thus influence the game.
The simplest solution to this, at least in my mind, would be to privately add people to the Spec Thread once the chance for revival is just gone. However, that would also mean monitoring dead players and stopping them from shitposting in the OT and sometimes even the game thread itself to let people know they are in Spec.
And you aren't the only one to say this, Gorlak. We always appreciate the input to make things work out for the better. :>
Pedro
The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
We've been talking through most of the week about how to handle the spectator thread, and access to it, in games like HvV moving forward. Thanks, everyone, for all the suggestions~
In general, things will remain like they are now; players are free to post in the OT, PM someone in the Outer Mafia team or their gamerunner to request access to it.
If a future game features a revival power, an extra thread, or any other sort of mechanic where players might be able to go back to the game after being killed, we will add a rule to it similar to the one in HvV, and handling requests for spec threads privately.
This way, players won't know if someone gained access and the game won't be compromised. We will also make sure any mention of the spec thread or its contents remain in it.
As to whether or not players will be granted access, that will depend on the mechanic in place, but once there's no chance for dead players to return to the game they will all be able to join.
In general, things will remain like they are now; players are free to post in the OT, PM someone in the Outer Mafia team or their gamerunner to request access to it.
If a future game features a revival power, an extra thread, or any other sort of mechanic where players might be able to go back to the game after being killed, we will add a rule to it similar to the one in HvV, and handling requests for spec threads privately.
This way, players won't know if someone gained access and the game won't be compromised. We will also make sure any mention of the spec thread or its contents remain in it.
As to whether or not players will be granted access, that will depend on the mechanic in place, but once there's no chance for dead players to return to the game they will all be able to join.
It's perfect, thanks.