Pair Thread Rider and Their Master

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lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Well then. You aren't sure why you are here, but you are anyways and that's what counts! Together you guys can hopefully win this war, and now is the time to discuss how to do that.

The master is: Ephidel
Her Servant is: Stantastic
 
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Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Hello Rider.

I've been waiting for you. Nice to finally meet you.
Pull up a chair, grab the glasses, and then we can get down to business.
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(It's okay, I know I have a captive audience and I'm going to take pity on you, you're not going to get a whole post full of them).

Timezones are what they are and I know you're running a game session in the morning so you'll obviously have other things to do (have fun with that by the way), but I hope we'll manage to catch up at some point before the night ends.

If it doesn't work out and in the end we have to leave each other notes in passing I guess that is what it is.

I apologise for writing weirdly, but as I was writing this message it occurred to me that I don't trust that there's no sneaky eavesdropping role, and the only example I could dredge up when I searched for old roles got a random sentence. More sentences, less chances of getting anything useful, right?

I am choosing to believe we are aligned because I want an ally. And if we're not then stringing me along for now and laughing about it later might be fun, right?

Your life is tied to mine unless you have some way to get yourself another master so I'll also choose to believe you have a reason to help me stay amongst the living for the time being. You did favour me with a town read based on more than enthusiasm in the thread, which I will try to ensure I actually earn if we survive the night.

I'd like to think we will.

Scum probably have better targets than either of us tonight. On the off chance you horribly murdered by proxy because they want to save on bandwidth then I apologise.

So where do I start?

You didn't vote.
I understand why. There wasn't much to vote on at that point.
I voted no kill. I contributed to the lack of death, the lack of flips, and the fact we have exactly as much information right now as we did yesterday.

This night is how we change that.

I don't deny that information would have been valuable, but when it came down to it, I didn't want to take the risk of voting out two town and then losing another two to scum before even considering what else might be lurking in the night. Four losses at once would have hurt.

Scum already know, assuming they are paired, what both masters and servants are capable of.
We had to play this day not knowing, but now we get to even the field a little. They'll still know what more of them can do, but we can at least start working out what we think our side is capable of based on what we can do.

If we're lucky the other pairs will come to a similar conclusion. Tomorrow everyone will go into the thread that little bit more knowledgeable and there will be a little more to look for.

If we trust each other, we can go in to day 2 stronger.

I guess it's unfair to ask you to trust me without offering anything up in return, so I'll take the first leap.

I'm sorry, but you drew the short straw. I summoned you by accident and I don't have any powers.
I'll confess that I've been holding on to a faint hope that the interesting things are in your tool kit, and my lack thereof is what balances you out.

So now it's up to you, Rider.

Do you trust me?

Do you want to win the Grail War?

Because if you do, it's time to start sharing what you can do.

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Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
You know how many times I read that before I posted it?
Plenty of times.
It's fun how the moment I post it I see the sentence where I messed up.
Oh well, let's hope if there is a spy they don't get that one.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Oi, no liking posts where I admit to messing up, Grail-kun. It makes me nervous.
We don't need a hero making kit (yet).
We're plenty heroic on our own (hopefully).
 

Stantastic

Our Badminton Stanpion
Right yes hello, i do in fact exist despite all evidence to the contrary.

First yeah im also just going to take you being town for granted, the odds otherwise are pretty miniscule and not worth the difficulties fretting over it would lead to.
Plus i genuinely did like your play yesterday, while it was somewhat motivated by our pair'yness i wouldn't have openly said it if it wasn't based on some legit readings.

For the not voting thats actually just a flubb from me, i did intend to vote before going to sleep.
i was supposed to follow up that last post i made with some deliberation over likely Zeke or Sorian, but it was 4am at the time and my brain was fried from working on D&D prep for the last few hours and i literally fell asleep in my chair. woops.
Fat lot of good it was, i had to cancel todays game anyway.

Hopefully that will be believable enough to everyone else, it should be precedented well enough that i virtually always make sure to vote as town or scum, and that its more NAI than anything, hopefully.

As for what we can do, yeah i think my kit somewhat makes up for you lacking much in the way of Powers,
I have an Override, which basically means i get to pick whoever the kill is during the day phase, they die immediately and the day ends then and there. Its one of the strongest abilities around, even with only one shot.

And dont worry, im the last person round here that can get all judgemental over typo's.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Are you sure you exist?
Absolutely sure?
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Your chair must be one hell of a lot more comfortable than mine. Sorry to hear you had to cancel your game though.

And... okay. I've seen one of those before. That could be fun
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Public, I assume?

It's powerful, yes.
Not something I can easily use to try and extrapolate what other people might have in their toolkits, alas, so I guess I'm still going to be flying blind. Warier, perhaps, but blind.

As much as I really want to ask you for your True Name, I feel like I shouldn't. Maybe tomorrow night.
In the meanwhile keeping that close to your chest might be advantageous, chances are there's someone out there who can make use of the information and there's no real point running around doing the equivalent of going "please shoot me in the heel" after all.
I must confess to being curious as to how brazen you actually are though. Very makes it a lot easier to imagine the flavour that could go with that skill, whereas if you're a girl with a big hat it becomes harder to puzzle through. And I can't shake the feeling they'd find it amusing to pair my master with Teach.
Yes yes, flavour talk is meaningless, I know.

And just because I've been dying to know whether servants know who their masters are, do you ?
Does your PM reveal my Magus name or just my username?
I asked the gamerunners and got emojis and laugh gifs. I'm assuming and suspecting it's the latter but it can't hurt to ask and it doesn't hurt to know what might be revealed if the worst happens and you flip. I'm reasonably sure I'm unimportant enough that nobody is going to be looking for me but the same doesn't necessarily go for other masters and I'm a little curious if they could be outed by their servant flipping.

... but then I'm a little curious as to whether the flips will actually reveal the "attached" players at all, even if the example one did.
Yeah I know voting someone out would have helped to answer that
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Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
That should have said "partner" players rather than attached. Not quite sure how that happened
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Anyhow I do expect my newbie protection to start run out tomorrow and won't be surprised if anyone starts asking about my end of day actions or lack of gifs therein, but I was flailing trying to catch up after work ended and that time evaporated far faster than I expected.
I'll need to make use of the night phase to skim back over the day in light of how the votes went at the end so I can actually make a stab at saying something useful, but at least I know I'll have time to do that today.

Loki and Vere seem to have people spooked a little, so it's making it pretty difficult to get a handle on what I think I'm looking at a lot of the time even without being new to the concept of actually playing.

What one thing would you recommend a new player consider?
One thing, any thing, you wish someone had thought to tell you when you started playing mafia that you could pass along to me, what would it be? Not specific to this game, just... in general.
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Stantastic

Our Badminton Stanpion
Yeah ill keep my character name for now, tho ill drop you the hint that when i first read it i had absolutely no idea who it was, which is surprising as im usually pretty good with figures of history and myth.
Similarly i have no idea who your character is, the PM just told me its you.

And yeah best keep them, and my Class secret as i would be not at all surprised if someone was out there hunting for specifics. I dunno if you were lurking here when Avatar Mafia happened, but people in that game were very liberal about thier characters nationality and that made my fire nation hunting job very easy lol.
Also hunting is a mechanic these GM's have USED BEFORE!!!!!!!

still mad.


As for advice, i dont think youll be landing in much hot water given how youve played so far, the only push against you i remember was Zeke, and that was under a pretty baseless accusation thats easy enough to refute. Like yeah youve talked a lot of flavour but youve also had a decent amount of game specific posts (as couched in Fate imagery as they were), more than him at any rate.

So speaking of, the same advice as i would have liked when i started out is just dont stress over playing mafia any particular "right" way, and dont get caught up in your own head to much about whatever mistakes you might make or fear your in the process of making. You can basically look at Jmans play yesterday as a prime example of when that happens and its never pretty.
 

Stantastic

Our Badminton Stanpion
Oh and do not be afraid to butt heads with anybody.
Doesnt matter if youve never played and the other player has been at it for years, challenge anything that doesnt sound right to you. I generally find that its in the midst of the more passionate arguments that you get the best sense of if someone else is coming from a real place or not.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Yeah ill keep my character name for now, tho ill drop you the hint that when i first read it i had absolutely no idea who it was, which is surprising as im usually pretty good with figures of history and myth.
Similarly i have no idea who your character is, the PM just told me its you.
C6pWpwd.gif

Iiiiinteresting
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I wasn't around for Avatar, and it isn't one of the games I've looked at, but it sounds like it played out very differently to how this one has so far.

I'm not particularly concerned Zeke's push, though I was little amused he got prodded out of it by newbie courtesy. In the meanwhile the king of gif posts going after someone for gif posts is just funny, and our exchanges let me use some gifs I never thought I'd be able to, so that was fun
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I'm not convinced it's great that the town leans on me are linked to me being an enthusiastic shitpost machine, but I did that to myself so I'll own it. A few more prods could make someone re-evaluate that but it's only likely to be an issue if I fail to break out of it a bit and nothing more interesting comes up, and the chances of something more interesting coming up are pretty good.

I appreciate the advice, and I'll take it on board!

And now I've got done all the real things I needed to get done today, finally, so I'm going to go reread the thread and look at those day end votes. And also maybe try and see if I can see what Jman was playing at prodding people into voting for each other and then tying it
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Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Evening.
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Well.
Today was interesting.
And ultimately unfortunate.
RIP creepy voyeur Lancelot
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Day one I learnt that the last minute rush really is harder to keep up with than I'd ever realised.
Day two I learnt that I really should have anticipated a turbo might cut off my ability to actually post what I was piecing together.
I guess it's all a learning process.

I'm sure this is blatantly obvious because the idea of someone being able to override twice would be worth its weight in memes, but considering the other master flips I'm going to say it anyway.
I cannot give you another override shot
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Next, I apologise for not backing you up after you mentioned the Hunter theory in thread.
I managed to miss it out of my first batch of posts by mistake when I was pasting them back together, then I'd hoped I might catch you when you were around so I could try and discuss it somewhat naturally in the thread but I missed you, and then I tried to bury it in the comments I planned to make about Odin and TWE near eod that got scuppered.
And if you're wondering why it would be at all relevant to the last one, it's because I'm not entirely sure that TWE's decision to find something to cast suspicion on you for wasn't because it spooked them
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I think I'm probably going to be sleeping and then working during your active hours this time around, but if you have anything you want me to consider or anyone you want me to stay off of, feel free to drop that here.
I offer no promises I'll actually do so if I spontaneously decide they're scummy enough to pursue, but I will take it on board.
 

Stantastic

Our Badminton Stanpion
Hey no apologies necessary on either account.
I didn't expect you to be able to re-up an override, that would be insanely broken lol.
And as to the Hunter thing its not a point that really needed backing up, i get the feeling that everyone saw the logic of it and took it in stride.

That said that observation on TWE is very intriguing.
I was very confused at his empty gestures to a scum me near the end there and thats a better theory than the total nothing i had. My only thought there would be that killing me now would be kinda moot now that the warnings already out there,
but he could be thinking that the lack of response to my post about it means most didn't really take note of it and he doesn't want me around to repeat it.

That said its not a theory id really put money on just yet.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Lol, I actually thought this one might go until end of day the way the votes were crawling! I have to give him style points though. He completely got me, I thought he was going to go with the self preservation vote, so he got to the vote switch before I did.

Although I cannot help but notice that after all that after all that he didn't die
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But hey, at least we get to go to a concert?
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Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
I'm just going to come out with it.

This game is full of people with powers and command seals and fancy magic, who can do things, who are very much not vanilla.
So what does the scum team get out of two shots to find out who can do nothing.

Well the obvious answer is that if they find me, they find you and your far more interesting powers.

Do you think there's someone else out there who qualifies as well or do you feel targeted now?

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Stantastic

Our Badminton Stanpion
im going to be completely honest, i do not know what your referring to here.

However on a semi related note, speaking of that single awesome but precarious power we have, do you have any thoughts/preferences on how it could be used?
There is a time limit on it and itd be a shame to see it go to waste, but i dont really have any strong inclinations for who to point it at just yet.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
im going to be completely honest, i do not know what your referring to here.

I was being entirely honest when I told you that you drew the short straw because I had no powers.
You said your kit made up for me "lacking much in the way of powers" and I dropped it.
It's not that I don't have much. I quite literally have nothing. No powers, no command seals, no defenses.
I'm vanilla.
I'm would have been a valid target for Salva's search.

From what else we've seen I feel like that's not the standard in this game, so the fact scum had a shot at finding me with their skills feels very, very weird.
It made me wonder if they would have made the same assumption I did - that their vanilla target has to be paired with someone far scarier. Detection by proxy.
Otherwise I have to wonder what exactly they would have thought they were looking for with Salva's skill.

However on a semi related note, speaking of that single awesome but precarious power we have, do you have any thoughts/preferences on how it could be used?
There is a time limit on it and itd be a shame to see it go to waste, but i dont really have any strong inclinations for who to point it at just yet.
I have been utterly terrified you would ask me that, which would be why I'm currently going through the thread to try and break out of my tunnel and see if I can justify any of my fuzzier wider suspicions.

I'm still living in my TWE tunnel but I don't know if I'm just too close to that now.
And anyway, some part of me feels like something like this should be used for someone who might otherwise be trickier to get at.
At the same time I don't want to do scum's job for them by suggesting getting rid of a valuable town asset because I'm an idiot.

Trying to pick who would make a good target, or a potential best target is tricky.
I started feeling the pressure yesterday when a couple of people hopped on a vote that was never really going to happen with me. That's just a vote. Obviously we don't want to be wrong, but if you want to ask me to advocate shoving a torpedo at someone I'd prefer it to be someone one or both of us can make a case to justify if we live and are wrong.

So for the moment I'm going to keep squinting at these posts while I eat lunch.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
You know how you told me "don't get caught up in your own head to much about whatever mistakes you might make or fear you're in the process of making"?
I really wish I were better at taking that advice.
I'm just tying myself in knots over here
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Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Okay fuck it.

I suspect Hawthorn.
And maybe Maol.

I am falling out of the suspicion towards Natiko I started to feel yesterday during the whole claim thing. I don't know if I have time to paste my reasonings before the threads lock.

Going to try.

Sorry it's a horrible mess because of the rushing.

Hawthorn votes.
1 - No kill
2 - SkyOdin, largely because she didn't like his push on TWE.
3 - HP -> Natiko (Started saying she wanted Zeke, went for Natiko after Maol started it)

Natiko votes.
1 -Zeke
2- Zeke
3- Salva

Salva votes.
1- Nothing.
2- Odin
3- Broken Zeke vote -> Real Zeke vote -> Natiko

TWE.
1- Nothing
2- Odin
3- Me

Maol.
1-Zipped
2-Jman->Odin
3-Natiko

_____

Let's not vote anyone out. Consider that with the current level of posting it's not likely we'll have anything to go on at the end of the day, we'll just be voting out randomly. We probably have a better chance of killing two town players than we do of hitting mafia. We know that many of the servants have powers, so we have a high chance of voting out a town power role. We would see what the mafia do overnight, gain more information from possible information-gathering roles over night, from interactions over the first two days, and from the night kill. IMO we should try it.

Looking back at this.

First the bold, which is what stood out to me when I read it the first time.
I queried it and Hawthorn responded with
I said probably, since it's not role madness, but I think it's likely that many of the servants have powers, judging from the game description that the mods put out.
She never said probably about powers, she said probably about kills.

I still fundamentally feel not voting was the better plan because we were likely to vote out town, but if there were more mixed pairs I guess it's also likely we were likely to hit half a mixed pair and scum weren't looking forward to the idea of trying to talk people out of it based on D1 nothingness.

In light of us having (probably) had our first mixed pair revealed (except for the failure to die) I can see other reasons why mafia would advocate for it too.
The more mixed pairs there are, the narrower the pool of pure town pairs to hit come night phase.
The more mixed pairs there are, the more skills they potentially have access to as well. They can share scum skills amongst themselves but they still needed the night phase to have a chance at seeing what their own paired partners could do.
Scum masters have redirects they can use to mislead their town servants into filling the blanks.
Scum servants to town masters might get redirected.
Pure scum pairings probably don't have the redirect because it would be unnecessary.


So we've had assumptions made about servants.
After N1 we have some about masters.

Sorian had a redirect power, so if he is town (and this narrative is true) Fran could be worried that Jman has something like that, making it not worthwhile to keep the doctor around. But I still don't understand why Fran claimed to Jman in the first place, according to this theoretical narriave.
Between me and my lover, the master claims the exact seals that sorian carried.

dunno if this means anything but it makes a potential scum master and town servant more likely Than if the redirect seal is not a default option.
I also have the exact same seals as Sorian
I agree that it's starting to seem like the seals Sorian had are the standard seals for masters to have.

Not quite sure how to read Wee's comment about how likely the mixed pair is, considering sorian/lp were both town and still had the redirect, but I choose to read it as her perhaps not trusting her own partner.

Hawthorn agrees that it's starting to look like those seals are standard, but when Salva is under investigation reveals she has different ones.
In my partnership, the one of us who is the master has only one command seal and also has an additional power. I think that having fewer command seals also balances the additional power. So, I believe that part of Salva's explanation.

Throughout the day she pushed back against the Salva vote and didn't vote there in the end.

The initial claim to have been roleblocked did not make sense to me. We knew it wasn't the town roleblocker, and mafia would know if they roleblocked Salva or not, so they would not have been fooled by that claim. However, I can buy that Salva didn't realize that until Ephi pointed out the flavor message.

Then the set of fishing posts based on Salva's claim.
It would help if someone claimed that they visited Natiko. It wouldnt' give much away since this is a role madness game, they wouldn't have to say what they visited him for.
Does give something away. If scum didn’t national then they can assume the person who visited nat has an investigation/info role or is the master.

Not liking that suggestion from you.
That's a good point I didn't think of about scum going after the person who visited Natiko. They should use their judgment.
If mafia targeted you, it was probably an investigative role, since they almost certainly roleblocked Fran if they have one & we know that the kill went through.

It behoves mafia to find out what other people are out there targetting each other.

She seems certain the day is set up to be Salva vs Zeke when actually the only vote on Zeke for most of the day was Salva's broken one.
It looks like it's really being set up to be Zeke vs. Salva today and I'm going back and forth on what I think. As of right now if I had to pick one I would lean towards voting Zeke, but I'm not sure and I want to see how the day develops.

And crowdsourced reads on me from HP :eyes:
Why did you suspect Ephidel originally? I understand that you've changed your mind, but I'm still interested to hear your thoughts. In general, IMO, it's good to be able to hear people's thoughts, even if they end up being wrong.

I understand that you thought the suspicion on Zeke wasn't justified. But you put almost all players in the "no view" category. Why was Zeke in "town" instead of "no view"?

Thank you for responding to my post, I appreciate it.
I'm still not following your reasoning.

You've explained multiple times why you weren't suspicious of Zeke. I understand that you did not find him suspicious. But I do not understand why you thought he was more town-like than most players were. In your reads post, you had one scum suspect (Salva), a very few players as town reads (including Zeke), and all the other players grouped together under "no read."

Why was Zeke in "town" instead of in "no read"? I'm not asking why he was not in "suspected mafia". I'm asking why he was a town read rather than no read.

It's a similar situation of Ephidel. Why would other players' behavior make you suspicious of Ephi rather than suspicious of those players?

___

What does mafia get out of Salva's THING.



I'm not surprised by Fran voting me, I make an easy early vote. [...]
Hmm I love the opportunity to No Lynch but I'm not sure this is the game to do it, this is a bastard game so I'm actually expecting pairs to be alignment mixed and if there are town servants that die with scum that means we can't waste votes.
Early admission of what we now know to be his own circumstance.
Excuses Fran's vote for him.

voting out town is just more likely always because there are more town players than scum players.

Speaking of the claim master thing, it is discouraged by the fact that scum would be interested on taking down the master and the servant at the same time.

I do think it's interesting the way jman claimed because it feels surprisingly... careful for a wild jman play. He mentions that he wants scum to wifom his claim, but I was thinking about it and wouldn't it be a jman thing to do to gambit that as a scum member to gain townie points early? Jman strikes me as the type of player who goes for outrageous things just to try to be useful, and in this case, may want to seem like he is useful to town.

It would be suspect but if you are a servant for a scum master maybe you want all eyes on you so even if you die you buy more time for your master.

Hmm, but also I'm thinking a bit about the lore everyone has been sharing here that servants are more powerful than masters and maybe scum would rather keep their whole teams than sacrifice a servant for the greater scum good.

I can already see the last minute switch from no kill to someone voting no kill.

Hmm, would scum be so bold to just park the vote there? I kinda liked launchs vote on sky but feels bad to vote a newbie, and I want to vote jman but I don't want to see him self-implode as usual.

I kinda like the case on Sorian, I don't see Sorian caring at all about a modkill and it is a weird thing to keep expressing.
For the first point, this almost went into motion with Zipped. He wrote this in post 470, before it happened.
For the second they went for Sky d2.

Maol was near the start of both of them. Fran started Zipped.

Anyway, the whole no kill crowd worries me, other than hawthorn I saw mostly an opportunity to waste a day. I'll be wiilling too try zeke or zip again, but I also don't feel good aboout any on that nokill vote.
Shades a bunch of players but excuses Hawthorn. No mention of the no voters, just the no killers.

I don't think Fran is scum, this is too silly for a gambit.
man what are the odds jman and fran are teammates, fran is very explosive and jman is volatile too
I really wasn't looking at Fran, but I'm noting this because Salva seems to get a kick out of stating things that actually happen.


I like how the more rules are added the better we get at using them to our advantage.
:poisonsip:

Also if you think I'm town because I'm not reading the thread that's really dumb, lol. Scum doesn't need to coordinate with scum to be scummy, that's not a towntell.
Just... mentioning that getting a kick out of things thing again.

So far I feel great about hawthorn and her analisys on the sky vs edge situation.

Natiko reads a bit opportunistic to me.

Sky seems to be throwing people off constantly and reads like deflecting

Worthy seems town-ish to me? He keeps building on ideas and keeps getting piled on.

Launch seems really eager to defend me even when I'm not at risk of getting voted out yet

Weemad seems cautious to me in a weird way, but seems town.

Oh jman you really need to calm down.
Some reads.
Positive on Hawthorn, TWE, Wee. Actually uses the word town for TWE and Wee. Doesn't actually use the word scum for anyone.
Launch's eagerness to defend him was one post or so, but we know they were actually linked, so he lampshaded it.

I'm a 2 shot motion detector, I targeted fran night 1 and got no result and was refunded. Natiko moved night 2.
Why do you defend Nat? I detected motion when targeting nat.
Right.

So.
What do scum gain out of a botched together claim. I suspected he actually would be a motion detector, but he wasn't.
I assume he had to go with that because of whatever general area of abilities he claimed to his partner, as was suggested.

Why would scum who knows they're on the verge of being caught out go on Natiko (Natiko who Fran on D2 said they tried to protect on N1).

Unfortunately, two answers.
Yesterday I was in a particularly suspicious mindset, and I was leaning on them knowing the claim was halfarsed, and it helping to clear Nat of suspicion when it backfired as a failed attempt by scum to get him killed.

Today, I'm not so sure.
So let's instead believe they really thought they might get away with it. They hope the claim will be bought, claiming he moved while he insists he doesn't would look suspicious, start a wagon.
Hawthorn asks people to come forward and clear him, then goes 'oops' after Zeke points out that implicates them.
Hawthorn also continues to not consider Salva suspicious all day.

Not sure if I mentioned this on my last post before day end but Natiko has read oportunistic to me, I was interested in seeing if he has a PR since I always have a hard time getting a read on him.
Motion detecting him wouldn't have told him whether he had a PR or not but the role he actually had might have.
You could be still be lying about not moving =/. But then I don't see why lie about it and contradicting me directly, so I'll give you a pass for now. It does leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Salva seems to like skirting the truth. If he actually got a "Nat is Not Vanilla" result back he might have been banking on the fact Nat actually did move and might admit what he did to "save" himself?

All the back and forth with Zeke that follows over his claim continues to leave me feeling good about Zeke.
There's the offchance Zeke is bussing a teammate he thinks has been a shortsighted idiot, but I don't really want to be there. I think it's genuine, partly because I also think his decision to be more active in thread was motivated by his ability to have to convince others to vote in his place.

I claimed because I had the idea that I got Natiko moving, but reviewing what the motion detector I got actually does, I realized I had the wrong idea. I'm still not sure Natiko is not lying, but at least it gives him some wiggle room...
This can actually be true. He claimed because he thought he could get away with it.

Natiko's approach this game has been giving me major greed island vibes, when we were partners. Natiko has a way of presenting ideas as if they just ocurred to him, agreeing with others while putting them in the direction he seems to want. This is not really alignment indicative but the fact of the matter is I saw movement on Natiko spot. Why has no one come forward saying they visited him?

And then there is Zeke, the usual shitposting zeke is now really engaged with me over my claim because he saw me as a lifesaver. Where is that detailed analysis on all players, zeke?

The other reason is that I feel my partner is not telling me the truth, so I've been suspicious that player is either scum or neutral. I am the master but I can't boost, all I can do is redirect. This on top of my own power feels like either a balance on our roles or a seed to plant doubt on our team. As I see it taking me down might not be thaaat bad of a thing, since I already wasted my shots, my flip confirms there was movement on Natiko and my servant I'm not convinced is actually town.
I have no idea what happened in Greed Island and I've run out of time to go check.
Again, the bolded statements are entirely capable of being true.

With that, I'm off, as I said voting me is not a waste since you are also taking down someone I'm not sure is town, even if I do feel like I failed my partner a bit (And the guilt will probably consume me if I turn out to be wrong about my suspicious since that person has been so nice to me, but that's just part of the game lol, sometiimes you are right sometimes you are wrong)
Accepts that if he loses, he still gets rid of town.

I can redirect my servant only.
Ah I see what you mean now, yeah I can use my first ability to detect motion on any player.
Both true.

Zeke has to be scum, he is been trying to hard to pin me down in order to save himself, I've never seen zeke try this hard.
You know that is not true I came forward with the info I had hoping I got Natiko moving, I also have nothing to show other than that and I've been trying to get scums attention, and by the way you have been latching onto me even now that I gave you all the info there is you still think it's scummy of me. You are deep in the tunnel because it's the only way to save yourself, you don't really believe I'm scum, you know I'm town and you just want to survive one more day so you and your scummy buddies can get one more day to win, and now that you know I'm a master then it makes more sense to get rid of me and take two people down for the price of one.
(That was to Zeke. It also comes after him calling Zeke scum explicitly but I really do want to town read Zeke. Call it wishful thinking).
Again, Zeke... wasn't really actually in any danger during the days votes.

Salva and Hawthorn both put forth that he was. Maybe they wanted him to be.

The confusion around the way my motion detector works was accidental, it didn't occured to me that movement could be someone else visiting Natiko, even if I doubt that's the case otherwise someone may have come forward already.

The confusion around my roleblock was [... blah blah blah I don't even want to get into this I'm snipping it out]

I have not done shit to scum hunt but I really I have not had the time, my partner was gracious enough to provide several reads and feelings and I kind of went along with them. When I saw movement on Fran's side I thought that it was possible that both were telling the truth in their own way, since I did saw movement, but I still had a shot left and just didn't want to attract attention to myself, and Fran's frustration convinced me that just flipping jman was the right call. So today I realized that pretty much confirming what everyone knows was too obvious and useless, so might as well appear as more of a threat to scum if I have one more shot, since I believe Fran's doctor claim and I believe scum still decided to leave Fran alone last night, might as well seem like a good distraction.

Overall I feel like maybe Salva tends enough towards the truth that they really thought they could get away with finding shit out about Natiko, and as such I feel less suspicious towards him now.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Well that looks like a complete and utterly unreadable mess.

Feel free to completely ignore all of it should you so desire.

See you later *waves*
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Oh well, that's what happens when you have an idiot for a master.
So I've tunnelled incessantly on two town the entire game xD
 

Stantastic

Our Badminton Stanpion
yeah probably.

Welp, the main reason i did the Decapitate there was just to get it out there that i could do it before i lose it, hence the aiming for a likely Day Kill target.
if nothing else it should lend me a few town points since an override is usually redic for scum, but its bastard so no guarantee.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Although if we did I guess I have to believe in the power of coincidences with the vote thing. I'll overthink that later.

I tried to signal I'd have been okay with that but wasn't really sure how, lol.

Ah well. I was being honest when I said I'd have kicked myself more if I dropped it and I'd been right than if I didn't and I was wrong xD
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
There are ten of us left.
Best case scenario is 3 scum left, right? Worst is 4?

So best case scenario tonight is 1 death.

9 of us going in to tomorrow.
6 town, 3 scum. (5 town, 3 scum, 1 neutral?)
5 town, 4 scum. (4 town, 4 scum, 1 neutral. We're kinda fucked)

Worst case scenario tonight is a double kill.

8 of us going in to tomorrow.
5 town, 3 scum (4 town, 3 scum, 1 neut).
4 town, 4 scum (3 town, 4 scum, 1 neut, we've lost?).


My new assumption is that there is a non-scum ascetic out there.
Salva's Vanilla cop and TWE's master/servant check both being capable of giving "No Result" allow for it. Non scum because Salva ain't scanning his scum mates. Could be town because obviously TWE is as likely to scan town as scum.
Fran hit a not-him invalid night target, though never got around to telling us who it was.
It isn't Launch because (unless there was fuckery) Fran already said he targeted him N2.
I'd like to assume it wasn't anyone at the top of his last day's town list because he posted that after mentioning his result, but who knows.
If it's hostile and it's capable of killing him then Fran might finally die tonight to stop him spilling. If it isn't there's still the question of what it's doing.

I don't know what to do with this assumption past note that I have it. x_x
I'm terrible at this.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Do you really think it's a good idea to mass claim tomorrow?

You think we need to solve for x to find scum?

And if so, do you think I'm better off claiming straight?

They still think the masters are scum loaded. Being one is not going to be great for me, but lying isn't a good plan if we actually do need to solve for scum.

I seeded that I was one, albeit badly, I can point at that to prove I'm not just making shit up to make them more hesitant to vote for me (if we set aside the scum loaded master thing making them more willing to)
I can present my vanilla status as reasoning for a couple of sets of my actions and Salva's role for it being feasible at all.

There's potential for them to link us from the reads and the balancing. More likely to get me out of vote strife but makes us a very nice target for a double NK that could end the game.
The only other known target servant you could confuse as my partner is probably SkyOdin.

Just as an aside I think it's incredibly likely Odin's Master has a power of their own, his master wouldn't need motivate or redirect.

Unfortunately the lie for scum masters is very easy.
JAM, Motivate, Protect, boom. Boring, can't pick them apart from anyone else.
The lie for scum servants might be trickier but if they're in mixed pairs they've already been living that lie for days, it's not going to catch them now. I
I really don't know at this stage.
 
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