Scum Thread The Dark Tower

I'm also worried there was something screwy with rac. If you're doctor, you don't act like that, surely?

Unless it was a Geno level gambit to try to survive.
Do you think Stu figured out something's up because ATP has the same role as him?

So is there a chance we flip him, they have the same role PM as ATP, and suddenly everyone figures out ATP was scum?



Possibility 1: He could be a cop and targeted ATP N1 or N2 maybe? But the logical deduction would be that Zeke switched his target instead of going straight for the altered flips. If he is a cop we should be mostly safe today as EC is a godfather and I will use nexus and redirect the scan. Unless we are really unlucky and the redirect hit Bojack I should be fine.

Possibility 2: There is really a second scum team and they have the same ability than us. That would explain why he knows and he is only buying time. But it's a risky gambit because he now needs a convincing story for tomorrow.

Possibility 3: He is some sort of mortician and can check for modified flips:

That way he would know that the flips can be altered but how would he know that 1 scum is already dead? He couldn't have targeted ATP. ATP flipped vanilla and almost everyone so far has flipped some kind of role. The only other vanilla was Zipped. And that brings up the 2 scum teams theory.

Possibility 4: He is the SK but can only kill non town. He could have killed VA N1 and ATP N2. And know about the altered flips because he could kill ATP and he flipped town. But this would be a really OP power.

I wouldn't even bother with Stu today. If he is part of a second scum team he has nothing on us. If he is a mortician he doesn't have info. If he is a cop it's unlikely that he could hurt us. Even there is a possibility that our second killer/s are also worried about Stu and target him.

He is not in the clear for tomorrow also. If his claim isn't good it's almost a fact that he will be lynched.


Possibility 4: He is the SK but can only kill non town. He could have killed VA N1 and ATP N2. And know about the altered flips because he could kill ATP and he flipped town. But this would be a really OP power.

BTW, if this is true the SK shouldn't be town as why would a town SK target ATP? He was townreaded by everyone. It would be a very weird target.

And I doubt that we have a SK who can only kill scum when we already had a neutral who was a cop and had to lynch scum. That would be too stacked against us.


Town (?) still alive:


As I said I don't think we should target Stu today.

I also think we shouldn't target Launch. The other killer already targeted ATP, who was a town leader, and they could have targeted Saw who was a potential town leader. It's likely that the next target could be Launch or me. That's why I think that using the nexus today is our best option.

Nin and Fate seems like easy mislynches. Unless something weird happens during the night phase it's likely that the candidates for tomorrow will be between them (and Stu if he doesn't have a convincing claim).

Then we have Blarg and Ynnek. I don't think Ynnek is a good kill right now. He hasn't done much and is standing mostly at the sidelines. Blarg brings noise to the game so I don't mind him being around a day more (and he could also be an easy mislynch).

That leaves us with Hawthorn and Leo. I like both of them for the kill today. Both of them have made some good posts and could be trouble in the future. The only thing that worries me is that Leo was scumreading me for the vote poll but I don't think that it won't be much trouble.

Between both of them I would kill Hawthorn first but either of them seems good to me.


Hawthorn last read list:

not in order:

Town reads:
nin - His tunnel on me feels pretty authentic. Generally I get a town sense from his posts. I hear people saying that the vote on me can't be totally clean, but I feel like mafia wouldn't necessarily care that much about dividing their votes up on D2. The meta of "scum would never stack their votes" has now gotten so entrenched that it would actually be safer for mafia to deliberately stack. If there was mafia on my vote D2 I would bet that it's rac. That said, this is my least strong town read.
Fran - mostly my meta read on Jman. I like Fran's posts as well though.
Bojack - as I explained above, I like the way he pushes and he's not afraid to change his mind even when it looks suspicious
Launchpad - Like his posts, like the way he switched to zipped yesterday in a town v town situation

Scum reads:
Fate - some weird posts today, reasoning doesn't seem to make sense, as I said above with my vote
EC - doesn't seem to play the game at all, doesn't have reasons behind his votes, doesn't post reads, doesn't seem to care.
Blarg - Hard to read as always, but I feel like his posts today are an attempt to fit into his town meta of "gets engaged on D3"
rac - I was hesitant before, because I thought that mafia would never do anything as crazy as the poll, but I've come around on that. It actually seems like a great way to distract discussion.

Ynnek - His posts seem good today, but so mild that I can't really get a read from them. When I try to think back over the game I can't remember much that Kenny has said or done. Need to look at him more tomorrow.
Stu - I found his remarks today fairly suspicious, but others I town read seem to be willing to give them another day, and I obviously don't want to get rid of Stu if he truly has a town role that could explain what's going on with these double kills/if there are false flips.
Leo - Was a scum read, but I've liked his posts today enough to push him up to null. They have a bit more substance to them.

She has me and Bojack as town reads and EC as scum. I don't think it's too bad. The scum list has also Blarg and Fate who could be pushed.

The thing that I don't like is that killing Hawthorn would confirm that D2 was town vs town and I don't like giving town that info.


Leo's reads:

As it seems there isn't appetite for nin today

A vanilla claim is whatever, doesn't strike me one way or the other. It's a bit weird that it was unprompted, though.

I don't think we should vote Stu out today, I agree that if he doesn't come clean tomorrow, we should lynch him. If anything, it will give us info in the people who voted/didn't vote for him today.

rac so far hasn't done anything in the game but to create noise with that poll. And i want to stress Haw's train from yesterday to get some info on that before we move on. Also, will be interesting to see how committed he actually is to vote according to his poll.

He is scumreading Nin and would be ok with lynching Stu if he doesn't have anything to show tomorrow.

Besides, Fate and Stu already have votes in them, I don't need to put a vote there rn

He was ok with lynching Fate.

I personally haven't seen Blarg being so unhelpful in a game before.

Called Blarg unhelpful

We have Blarg being Blarg but i see very little content in his posts, EC is doing his thing, rac with his poll, and now Stu is trying whatever he is up to. I don't know what to make of any of these players

There is something about EC but he pretty much suspects everyone.

If we kill Leo and people go through his post for clues it wouldn't hurt us as much. He threw a lot of suspicious everywhere and there would be a long list of possible killers.

I think I like this kill the most.


Bo, I don't mean to come off as rude, but so far I only see you citing reads from other people and iterating on them without giving us much of original thoughts, and that's kinda scummy and within the scum meta i have of you.

What are your top town and top scum reads?

He also scumreaded Bojack lol.

His scum list must be huge.
I would rather Leo over Haw. I think Haw will come out as a loud voice against someone like Fate so could still be useful.

I think I said Leo a couple of nights ago so I'm definitely up for that. Am I using my power again?
ATP was a roleblocker but flipped vanilla. I don't think so.
What I meant with this is that there's a chance we flip as a random town role. So what if ATP flipped with Stu's role, name and all? That's how he knows.

I'm not saying Stu is also a roleblock. But there's no use speculating I guess, not gonna get us anywhere.
I guess we better start thinking of fake claims. I'll take ATP's old one of Westley if you want to keep Vimes, Fran.

For the role, I'm not sure. I'll go vanilla for now, though it might be a bit suspect.


No, keep Vimes. I will claim Gerald.

I will claim JOAT with 3 1-shot powers. I can say that each power is a sign.
How much do you actually believe your Launch/Fate/Leo theory?

Would be interesting if you're right, means we'd have to work to butter up Kenny, Stu, and Blarg.


I'm pretty much sure. If we have 2 scum teams they must be the other one.

We also tried to kill Launch and Leo and both kills were redirected.

We should try to lynch one of them today.

I think we could do it.


Would be interesting if you're right, means we'd have to work to butter up Kenny, Stu, and Blarg.

They must have lost one players by now if we believe Stu. And they don't know that we lost one so they must be panicking.

Right now we would be tied in votes. We need Kenny, Stu and Blarg to side with us.

This is definitely not the right time to bus.
Definitely not, I'm trying to be subtle about positioning myself on your side. Early thoughts from Kenny look positive.

Just keep pushing back where you can, don't get too defensive, and see if you can find any solid evidence outside of today.

Who do we want to try to steer towards? Launch is annoyingly good at looking town. Wonder if we could push Launch's D3 vote on Fate as a bus.


I just pressured Fate to vote Launch. He had him as a scum lean.

Either he help us voting Launch out or he looks really bad.

The problem could be Blarg, who is a wildcard.
You're in a tight spot, Fran. We'll have to see if Kenny, Stu, and Blarg have any input.

Need to find a way to turn it around on them without it blatantly looking like I'm on your team. I'm off for the night, but if you have any suggestions, just drop them here.
The thing is, if you're right and they're teamed up, I think they'll come for me tomorrow, if not in the night. So I think I'm next if you're gone.

I need to think how I'm gonna go about this, but I'm gonna do a reread of Launch and maybe Leo, see if I can tie them together. Put all the evidence down against them. A riskier play would be to scum read both of them AND you, would be a 2-for-1 trade, bury them with you. Potentially keeps me clean.
I'm still reading through, but here's my random thought.

What if it's Launch, Leo, and Stu? Maybe they made up the corpse checker claim to confirm Zipped as scum and tie them to you specifically because of jman's vote. Then nin flipped and messed up their plan, but they went with it anyway.
Something to keep in mind if you have to come up with a role claim. Jman said there were things he had to clarify with Hedin so make sure there's something about it that might need clarification.

I just dont believe this.

I have asked Hedin to clarify very simple things in my PM and was hit with

No Comment

Yet you get a detailed explanation of how your role was formed that also potentially leaks info about what other roles are or are not in the game.


Even if I'm voted out today I think we are in a good position.

They don't know that we lost ATP so maybe they think that we are a full team today. Maybe that's why they are so worried and being so open today. They are worried that if they don't get rid of one of us today they will be too behind.

I don't think they are sure that both of you are my scum partners. They can have some doubts but I have been defending Blarg and Ynnek has been defending me. And I have made some light buses on both of you.

If I'm right we are at 3 of us, 3 of the other scum team and 3 town (Stu, Ynnek and Blarg). If I'm lynched you should kill one of the other scum. Can't give them the upper hand.


Are you scum?
Fate is certainly a possibility, that way I don't have to go back and forth with him on his accusation that he levied before the day came to a close.
Obviously we want to stay away from killing LP, since that'll be too obvious.
Maybe someone out of left field, like a Stu or a Kenny would be interesting choices.
So let me run the numbers. There has to be two teams - Zipped and/or nin are scum, but not for us. Let's assume their makeup is the same as ours since they have the same role as us.

So that means it was 4 v 4. We're now at 2. Worst case scenario, they only lost one (Zipped). So it's currently 8 people. 2 (us) v 3 (them) v 3 (town). Let's assume they need 50% to win. So if we don't kill one of them, they win, because it'll be 3 (them) v 3 (made up of whoever's left).

So we have to kill one of them, right? Is my maths correct? This is worst case scenario, which I think we have to play with, we can't take it easy.

Since I'm only sure on Launch and Leo, I feel like we have to kill one of them. I can't tell if Fate is with them or just pocketed town. It could be Stu and this was all a plan. The only one I feel confident in saying it isn't is Kenny.

I would go Leo out of the two options. If he flips town, at least I gave myself enough wiggle room.
Are they expecting us to target one of them? If so, would they target us or town?

Us: 1 (us) v 2 (them) v 3 (town)
Town: 2 (us) v 2 (them) v 2 (town)

But if they targeted us then gets the other one voted off during the day, they just need to do their night kill and win. Whereas if they kill town, it's a tougher road.

So I think they're going to target one of us. Probably me because I fight back more. They'll think you're the easy vote out because people don't like your play style.

If that happens, I wonder what the best play is? You'd need to convince town that the other scum team wins if you die. Last ditch attempt would be to open wolf and tell them straight up what's going to happen. Hmm
I'm thinking out loud here and I might have something.

Nin must be scum. If you're scum and you flip, you flip with a town role. There's nothing that says you flip with a scum role. And we know their powers - they likely have nothing to change town Nin into scum Nin. That's thought one, which means Stu must be lying about Zipped. They used Nin's role for Zipped for legitimacy. They didn't expect Nin to flip.

Thought two, I think I know why they went so hard on Fran. They targeted him N3. That's when Fran used nexus. So their kill didn't hit Fran, it bounced off and hit Nin. They know Fran should have been dead, and the only way he survives is if he used his switch or nexus. They know he has that power because one of them does.

Either Launch or Leo is that role and used it N1 and N3. That's when we didn't kill them.

If I'm right, then the third one is Stu who's complicit in the lie. He only came up with it when he started getting a lot of heat. They likely came up with the plan together.
It means they might not have used the heal, so they could use it tonight. So we have to think who they would use it on.

With Fran flipping town, they might be expecting us to push Launch hard tomorrow, since he was the main target. So they might protect Leo.

Is going for Launch the right option here?


Are you scum?
Yeah, that would be a fascinating play, coming right out and saying, yeah, I'm mafia, what are you gonna do about it? :P
Also, in regards to who we will tonight, I'll go for whoever you think is most likely to be scum.
Then there's the role blocker. Stu might be the godfather; maybe they had Stu claim to be town corpse checker in case a cop tried to read them. It'd come back a green check. So it's Launch or Leo - the other has the jack of all trades role.

So who would they block. It's 50/50, they know who we are. Do they block me because I'm more likely to be scum with Fran? Or do they expect that and block you. This might be the toughest question.

Sorry for all this text, EC :P


Are you scum?
So who would they block. It's 50/50, they know who we are. Do they block me because I'm more likely to be scum with Fran? Or do they expect that and block you. This might be the toughest question.
I think they block you because they'll believe I am inexperienced and less likely to want to carry out any overnight actions.
Thank you. Hmm, makes me believe Stu even less. I'm not familiar with The Man With Thistledown Hair, but his character description sounds like it suits the jack of all trades more. Maybe it does - maybe that's one of their roles.

Do we take the gamble and vote Stu? If they have a heal, I don't think they'd use it on Stu because it didn't look like we suspected him. I also think it means Stu is going to do the kill in case we have our role block.
If we take the risk on Stu and are wrong, or if we're blocked, it's game over, they win. Most likely. But do we just go for it? Or do we stick with Launch - they'll think we want to keep him alive because he's the most suspicious.

This fucking block. They know we know they have it. So they know we're going to try to guess who they're using it on. I think they might block you. They think we think they don't 100% know you're scum. They'll think we're going to have our more townie team member do the kill. After all, there's a slim chance you could be misguided town. So they'll block you.

I'm tempted to say I do the kill on Stu. It's a huge gamble, but it's 50/50 - if we lose, we lose. Can't be too sad about it. I mean, I will be. I'll kick myself. But it might be the play.
I'm gonna do it EC. If you have any objections, let me know and we can swap it round.

kill: Stu

If you really wanted a big finish @Hedin you could give us a hint. We won't snitch. :spy:
If I die, EC, then I think our only path to victory is if you open wolf from the start. They're not stupid - they saw what happened. And they probably know Fran was faked. If they don't, then you can tell them.

You have to open wolf as it's the only way to convince them to vote Launch or Leo. Tell them that if they don't do that, then town loses. It'll be 2 scum vs 3 town, they kill one, now it's 2 vs 2 and scum win. Town's only path to victory is working with us, and our only path to victory is working with them.

Don't hold back and tell them everything (without copying and pasting and getting yourself mod-killed). Tell them every role, everything that happened, every decision we made. Anything you need to convince town to vote on your side. I recommend potentially going for Leo over Launch, because I feel Leo might be the blocker. That way you can get off a N5 kill no problem.

If it does get to that point and town vote with you, you have to kill a town. If the other scum team are smart, they'll do the same. Neither team can go in 1 vs 2 town. It's game over. It has to get to 1 vs 1 vs 1, where you'll have to convince town to give you the win. Play up the fact we're the underdogs, the scrappy team who have hit a lot of bumps. Launch is the fat cat bourgeoise player, he's the overdog. I would potentially recommend trying to keep Fate alive as they might not want to side with Launch who continually pushed them. Blarg also might side with you just to screw over launch. So killing Kenny N5 might be your best bet.
Actually, the block isn't that big a deal. If they block our kill, then they don't win, because the day will start with 7. Only one NK happens, and it's there's. So say they kill one of us and block us:

1 (us) vs 3 (them) vs 3 (town)

In that case, town has to work with us or they lose.

If they kill town and block us:

2 (us) vs 3 (them) vs 2 (town)

And it's the same again - town has to work with us.

I don't think it's game over just yet, EC!


Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
I'm gonna do it EC. If you have any objections, let me know and we can swap it round.

kill: Stu

If you really wanted a big finish @Hedin you could give us a hint. We won't snitch. :spy:

Command Received

If I gave you a hint it would just ruin your fun and we don't want that to happen.


Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
If it will make you feel better I can go find some ERA copy pasta regarding game difficulty settings.


Are you scum?
This is going to be fun, because my whole shtick is always telling the truth, so if I tell the truth about being mafia, do they finally believe me for once?
Right, there's a few ways this can go. See if you can spot any flaws in my maths.

It's 2 v 2 v 3
If we get one of them voted out, it's 2 v 1 v 3 going into the night phase. In that case, we couldn't kill them, because it would presumably be 1 v 0 v 2 or something like that.
So we'd kill town, they kill us, it's 1 v 1 v 2, have to beg town to give us the win.

If it's 2 v 2 v 3 and we kill town, we go to 2 v 2 v 2
Then we pick off each other in the night 1 v 1 v 2, town decides again. Something like that.

So our pitch has to be that if town wants a chance of winning, they have to work with one of the sides. They just have to decide which.
I know lol

Really sucked the air out of the room with that one. Launch and Leo are probably planning what to do next.

I thought everyone would want to know what the hell's been happening. I guess it's because there's only 7 of us now.


Are you scum?
Wait until they get to page 3 of this thread and find out the ATP/jman thing was very real.
Or maybe they'll finally take my word for it!
I know, a bit awkward lol

I have to go now. Hopefully they don't hammer. If they do look like they're going that way, then I think the best play is to not kill on the next night.

It'll be 1 v 2 v 3
If we kill town and they kill town, and if they block vig, it's 1 v 2 v 1, they win.
If we kill them, it's 1 v 1 v 3, town just votes us out.

They can't kill us, then it's 2 v 3, and that's a big risk.
So it should be 1 v 2 v 2, then you have to convince town to work with you.

If they abstain too, then it's 1 v 2 v 3, town loses if they don't work with you.
So don't kill is my advice.
That advice still stands, EC. I thought about it more last night.

The other team can't waste a kill on you. They either abstain or kill a town.

Hopefully a vig doesn't kill you. If there even is one.

So don't kill tonight.
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