Ten Forward

anexanhume

My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
With the flipping of vere, we will find out what excactly got anex

dog-confused.gif


WYD Fate I believed in you.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
It always hurts when town's last hope gets swepped in with the rest of town

blobcryreach.png

But it's okay Shirou, this final has been hard on every body.

There's always that small chance town still figures it out before time is up, but it definitely sounds like town is going today.

:surprised:
 
Yeah, it's looking like it's going to swing to scum. Good effort by town and I know how tough it is not knowing what the hell's going on.

Also big props to the remaining scum. Both HP and malus have been called out as scummy numerous times, so they have to be doing something right to survive so long. Town towning will only get you so far. So good job on them thriving in the confusion.
 
It's interesting, I should take notes for my own sake in the future because it's easier to see clearly from the outside. Seeing a lot of working backwards to their conclusions which I know I'm guilty of. Definitely think I need to work on my analysis personally after this game.
People off wagon when Anex was voted out:
Royal
Ephi
Fate

Oh.
This is an interesting one from Vere because if you look at the votes, these are indeed the three people off wagon. But it misses the fact that HP and malus did not vote by the end of that day. LP's doing something similar by assuming all the D1 wagons were town and then working backwards and inferring from there.
 
Fate almost has it.

Reminds me a ton of his final day in fate/stay.

solves the game but town read scum just convinced the rest that it isn’t possible
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Yep Fate is almost there, like when he said HP and malus are playing shit town games I keep waiting for the light bulb to go off there to get him the rest of the way. The problem is that even when he gets it (I think he will get there) I don't think he'll be able to convince the others.
 

weemadarthur

Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
I was excited someone quoted me, hoping they were going to vote out HP.

But no, it was a flavor comment. And nobody left has a clue about flavor. :cry:
 

anexanhume

My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
I’m going to really feel bad for town if they miss today and go into tonight thinking they still have a chance tomorrow.
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Wonder if malus will stay up long enough if Fanto wants to start the day when all actions or in or just wait the full 24hrs.
 

anexanhume

My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Natiko making a play of the game, correctly identifying that HP is Scum and was supposed to get bussed the day the vote swung to Royal.

But instead of voting for HP, he votes for Ephi.

giphy.gif

When I flipped town, I thought it was obvious that town would test my claim of blocking HP. If I had known that wasn’t guaranteed, maybe I don’t even role reveal and take my chances.

As this has gone on, I just feel more and more responsible for town’s self-doubt eroding confidence in what seemed generally accepted earlier.

Maybe they end up turning on LP instead, but I feel like there’s a chance HP gets voted without that distraction.
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Welp. I don't think they need to do the bomb gambit but it probably makes it a sure thing tomorrow.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Scum are on top of the world right now, they're basically just salivating at the chance to win tomorrow lol.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
I want to apologise to town overall for playing a game where I was repeatedly dodgy as fuck, and to Jman for scum reading you for nothing yet again (that's getting to be a habit, whoops), and to Random for throwing the game he left me due to inactivity. I had a family drama yesterday that left me babysitting forever and completely destroyed the time I'd intended to spend playing and chained into today where I was literally doing day end on the bus after work.
Considering how up my own backside I was being suspicious of Nat and Vere though the extra time still probably wouldn't have helped
767857806329380904.png

It kinda hurts how many times I said "of course this can be scum play, it's working for him" with regards to HP though. God I wish I'd just asked Nat if he'd be willing to vote HP with me today if he was so sure we were both scum, I wrote the post, but I just didn't have it in me and deleted it to vote for him instead lol.

Would never have gone to malus though, even after staring at votes and going "damn, he's out of the way all the damn time"
I guess this game the lesson I learnt was the peril of being flavour blind.

I'm sorry Fate. You were right all along.
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
@Ephidel

The funny thing about your QUOTE from me being wishy washy was I was genuinely trying to get ATP and Wee to change my mind on HP. They believed so hard I wanted to see there point of view.

In general my new gameplan is to be open to being persuaded by the best argument and trusting players better than me if I dont come up with a rock solid Vote.
 
Last edited:

Neki

Bought a book once
Just leave them alive until end game and be surprised they turn out to be scum then lol
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Malus Royal and Blarg were also non existent day 1 and were scum too. Maybe policy voting isn't the right phrasing but we continue town reading people who aren't doing anything under the guide of they'll do something later on and it never turns out to be true
 
I mean every game is different, blarg never does anything day 1 and he won't be scum every game. You'll never get a lot of content from malus either. And royal was even less active in the 1 game I've played with him before and he was town in that.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I mean HP always acts like this as town or scum so I don't think it's indicative of his play either, D1 was a crapshoot lol
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Hope you will all endorse policy voting low activity voters on D1 now

I always want to do this but everytime I have its bit me in the ass. I still don’t know the right way to approach those players, low post/activity doesn't help town at all, but I feel like I'm wasting scum hunting time when we try to deal with them.
 
I mean I dont agree at all. He was way different from his game in the thing and he was exactly like his scum game in fate

I got lucky maybe in thst I had just played a scum game with him. But this was nothing like his town games imo
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Yeah a town HP would be going woe is me while still trying to help town. This was a woe is me and not do anything else and it worked.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
I always want to do this but everytime I have its bit me in the ass. I still don’t know the right way to approach those players, low post/activity doesn't help town at all, but I feel like I'm wasting scum hunting time when we try to deal with them.
There's a noticeable difference between Scummy inactivity and Townie inactivity in my experience, so it's mostly about trying to determine which is which.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
You say it's scummy but everyone has ignored him due to mechanics discussion so its not scummy enough to beat his double voter claim
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Also if you quote and @ at a townie constantly then they refuse to respond to any of it I'm scum reading them
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Sure but I know as town ive purposely ignored @s and quotes if I think the person asking isn't doing so in good faith or I feel I've already answered them
I know repeating yourself is hard but wee legit almost swayed me to Vote HP and if you would have thrown a couple of more arguments at me instead of blowing me off it's a good chance I fully scumread there.

I was pretty desperate to for guidance and it hurt being ignored by you.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Sure but I know as town ive purposely ignored @s and quotes if I think the person asking isn't doing so in good faith or I feel I've already answered them

I mean it's better to reply and actually say that otherwise I'm assuming you're just purposely ignoring points you don't want to get seen for scummy replying to. Like at some point when you and Bojack were probing me on D2 I tried answering every point and Bojack basically came off as a hard tunnel based on his answers which makes sense because he had a red check for me. If I had not posted anything in response to any of the stuff you posted against me then it would have meant nothing for you or Bojack and there would have been nothing to work off of. Townie has to give a little here or we're just continue encouraging this kind of ignoring passive scum play.
 

jman1954goat

Linked the Fire
Like it's not your fault people didn't listen to you the first time ATP that's on us but repeating yourself/ framing arguments in different ways to get players on your side is kinda just part of the game.
 
I know repeating yourself is hard but wee legit almost swayed me to Vote HP and if you would have thrown a couple of more arguments at me instead of blowing me off it's a good chance I fully scumread there.

I was pretty desperate to for guidance and it hurt being ignored by you.

Tbh I already knew I was gonna red check neki so that was another reason I wasn't going over the hp stuff again
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I've really felt sorry for town in this game - while there's been plenty of the usual town-on-town infighting, HP and Malus's pockets have been deeper than I've seen in quite a while.
 
I mean it's better to reply and actually say that otherwise I'm assuming you're just purposely ignoring points you don't want to get seen for scummy replying to. Like at some point when you and Bojack were probing me on D2 I tried answering every point and Bojack basically came off as a hard tunnel based on his answers which makes sense because he had a red check for me. If I had not posted anything in response to any of the stuff you posted against me then it would have meant nothing for you or Bojack and there would have been nothing to work off of. Townie has to give a little here or we're just continue encouraging this kind of ignoring passive scum play.

I understand where you're coming from but there is just never gonna be a one size fits all, every situation is different.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
I continue to be mystified at him getting townread for the poker game.
I was various combinations of flavour blind. He chose to play with the cop, nothing bad happened to either of them as a result, the officers play poker, I don't recall ever seeing a romulan do so, and even after it being proven otherwise I really was expecting a faction called the romulans to have, well, romulans in it
535479636503691285.png
 

anexanhume

My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Hp had 2nd highest posts day 1 and was scummy. If people didn't try to desperately save him this game may have gone differently.

People continued to townread him for the same reason they saved him on Day 1, so it wasn’t just a single day failure of judgement.
 

Flush

Poker Royalty
Also, I just remembered my on point prediction on the Scum chat before D1 started:

So, what's kind of important to know about me: The past games with me as Town all went more or less the same way (with very few notable exceptions): I get some suspicion thrown at me on D1 for having few and shallow posts but don't end up among the 2-4 closest candidates. I then start building a reputation until people get suspicious about me again and I get lynched or killed by a Town vig somewhere around D4 or D5.

So don't worry about me too much early on and feel free to bus midgame, I probably wont make it anyway...

As for winning: I hope the two of you got this... Blarg is not going to make it into endgame either.
"reputation" might have been an overstatement this time but I feel I played a typical Royal game here :D
 

Verelios

Were-elios
I think Nat and Fate get it today. Even if they scumread the other, they'll know that since Ephi flipped we were fundamentally wrong on someone, and that points to the people coasting. IMO, LP is town, Nat and Fate are 50/50 coin flips and they KNOW they're town so that means the second scum is in either Malus or HP, and it's a decision that most of town could accept.

I would have went HP.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
Very interesting choice, especially since Scum doesn’t know the doctor is shot based.
Yes they do, Shirou told LP yesterday that he inherits any shots remaining and LP didn't call bullshit, so they know he was limited to start with.
But still an interesting choice.

Welp, god damn. When Ephi flipped I went HP is scum and I'm fucking stupid.

@Ephidel I'm sorry for scum reading you so hard. I felt awful when I saw your role questions.

@Randomless too, that was my bad.
Haha, it's fine, I was wrong about you too after all, and I thought your emotional feedback was just as bullshit XD
I'll hold off on force feeding you that self importance though, I think Hedin planned on holding you to a far heartier meal ;)

I think Nat and Fate get it today. Even if they scumread the other, they'll know that since Ephi flipped we were fundamentally wrong on someone, and that points to the people coasting. IMO, LP is town, Nat and Fate are 50/50 coin flips and they KNOW they're town so that means the second scum is in either Malus or HP, and it's a decision that most of town could accept.

I would have went HP.
Alas, the bomb plan will probably carry them through regardless.
 

Ephidel

How do you do, fellow mafia?
From the comfort of spec I genuinely can't understand why Nat isn't at least floating the idea of all voting Fate together. LP/Malus are saying they think it's Fate and him, yes, but Nat isn't scum reading either of them so there's no reason to not want to vote with them.
Sure it would be the wrong move in this game because it isn't Fate, but it would be an understandable one.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
From the comfort of spec I genuinely can't understand why Nat isn't at least floating the idea of all voting Fate together. LP/Malus are saying they think it's Fate and him, yes, but Nat isn't scum reading either of them so there's no reason to not want to vote with them.
Sure it would be the wrong move in this game because it isn't Fate, but it would be an understandable one.
It's because he could...but it would be very hard. Volo just needs 1 person to tip the scales before scum hammer and I don't blame Nat for not having the energy to make a case on others. It's ultimately just unfortunate.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Staff member
See, that's it right there - to me, that's the bastard line. In design, you wanted scum roles to seem town. To me that's purposeful misdirection.

It's semantics, so it's not a particularly important argument, and I don't think expanding the labels changes the way people attempt to solve, so it doesn't matter, really. We could add incredibly informative labels and people would still do it - it's just the nature of being inside the game when weird paranoias take hold.
I disagree that it doesn’t change the way you approach a game. Expectations can play an important role in what you can and can’t accept as mafia roles, and this being a “normal” role madness game didn’t really match up with the design itself.

Oh right the ready room can live past Picard lol I forgot that.

To be fair… Faddy and helped in a lot of that and players need to consider what impact reviewers can have on a game lol

I mean Fanto and Geno are why fate/mafia ended up being bastard
I disagree that we should have to sit and metagame who reviewed a design.

Because Nat claimed miller for no reason instead of keeping mouth shut. It would have worked if I was still in the game. Its's my fault for subbing out but the Fake claim was not the issue having a substitute not aware of plan was.
Lmfao. Maybe you should’ve stuck to playing a mini mafia first like I suggested.

I kept trying to reach Nat where he was at but he kept striking me down. I can say I tried at least.
I was an asshole so I’ll hold the L, but let’s not act like you didn’t open the phase with a huge pretyped about why I was mafia l

As for the deathless night, that one went like this:

Anex - Block: HP
HP - Block: LP
Scum - Kill: Wee
LP - Protect: Wee

So, the way I decided to resolve this, was that Anex blocked HP, which prevented him from blocking LP, meaning that LP protected Wee from the Kill.

That was a gamerunner call to make, since it's up to me whether roleblocks all go off at the same time or not, but myself and the gamewatchers all agreed on this being the most logical way to resolve it.
Oh you mean the block on HP that Faddy was insistent should’ve got him flipped wasn’t even the direct reason the kill was stopped?

Yeah he is so freaking close. Like seriously
View attachment 523
View attachment 524

So basically everyone needs to send shirou your good energies if you want town to win LOL.


Yep that was how it was intended XD
Fate deserves tons of kudos for keeping the correct people in his POE, but he also kept literally every other player minus LP in it and was happy to vote for them so it ultimately didn’t do much sadly.

I keep seeing them (Nat in particular) keep saying that they can't solve the game based on roles and yet they're townreading malus and HP because of their claimed roles. No one can make an argument that HP is town based on actual play.
I didn’t townread HP due to his role, I town read him because he was the counter wagon to mafia TWICE and played so dejectedly if I’d been mafia with him I would’ve outright been telling him to drop out of the game because I was sick of dealing with that from a teammate.

Natiko making a play of the game, correctly identifying that HP is Scum and was supposed to get bussed the day the vote swung to Royal.

But instead of voting for HP, he votes for Ephi.

giphy.gif
Tell me who was gonna vote HP with me in that moment. Ephi? Woo, I can get voted out while technically being on the right vote, yay.. lol

I continue to be mystified at him getting townread for the poker game.
In 99% of games labeled as normal role madness if we voted out the fucking BP granter you and everyone else in spec would be dunking on us hard. Just because you and most of the spec thread were spoiled on aspects doesn’t suddenly change how this would go in most games.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Staff member
All that said I learned one important lesson - HP’s interactions tactic that caught me out in Scooby 2 is absolutely not a smoking gun lol I felt real proud of that interactions argument against Ephi… oops.
 

anexanhume

My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Oh you mean the block on HP that Faddy was insistent should’ve got him flipped wasn’t even the direct reason the kill was stopped?
I was told my block could work on someone who issued a kill order, so it would have worked regardless of whether LP’s protection worked.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Am I at 10 posts yet?
Yeah I pretty much agree with everything Nat said.

It was labeled normal role madness and if it was unusual we would've approached the game differently. Would it have made a difference in the result? Maybe not, but all that mechanics and role talk would've been lessened. I've only ever seen a 1 shot scum double vote, and 2 just made it less likely to be a scum role.

The anex block on HP may have looked obvious to you in spec thread but to us, it just looked like the doctor blocked the kill.

Malus played like uninterested town after using a public command and his BP vest kept him alive, but he also voted for Blarg. It was a perfect storm.

Combine everything that happened with some bad luck and it didn't end up as a great game for town. I'm just sad I wasn't scum because that end game waa my dream scenario (sit back while high activity posters vote each other out). :P
 

FateShirou

ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
I want closure


1) how many shots did LP have and when did he run out


2) what was the purpose of the backup doctor


3) what is the basics on the game being mislabeled
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
1) how many shots did LP have and when did he run out


2) what was the purpose of the backup doctor


3) what is the basics on the game being mislabeled
1. 3, he used one shot each night he could, so he ran out on Night 3. His targets were Yuta, ATP, and Wee.

2. The Backup Doctor was so Town could continue having a Doctor if the original one died in the first couple days. Town having a lot of protection was def part of the design.

3. The game probably should have been called Unusual because it uses a lot of non-standard roles, and the way the Scum team was balanced against mass claims means that it worked against normal/reasonable expectations.
 
Top Bottom