Spectator Thread The Judges Table

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
The way they are thinking would imply two cops but if I had implemented it a random player regardless of alignment would have gotten it. I mostly just put that line in there for shits and grins but also to give them a little pause on using it.
they're only thinking it because they are in the deep paranoia zone lol - but they are mostly keeping their heads, which is good.
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
Damn, my partner’s posts in scum chat make me want to make a Mario Kart: Double Dash 2 (or some other partner game). Anyone interested?

I would definitely love to play more partner games. I think we need another Love Boat because I keep seeing that referenced and it was before my time.
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
Scooby doo was apparently still rife with it, but better.

Yeah people figured things out (or just outright said who they were) but it was an improvement. The issue with costume games is that the vote tool doesn't work with OM so its a lot of work for the game runner keeping track of everything.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I would definitely love to play more partner games. I think we need another Love Boat because I keep seeing that referenced and it was before my time.
They were a trilogy of games from Bear. The first was so long ago it was before my time even lol
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
VA is right there, I was disappointed that they did not know who Danny Tanner or Philip Banks were at first.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Sometimes you gotta roll a hard six.
I said
beyonce-goddamn.gif


That inside joke had me laughing my ass off.
 

Donnie

Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Aw, I really want to see Pancakes survive to the end after all this.

Also I noticed that with my day 2 reads I posted in here after Nat went, all I had to do was cross off my two most town trusted from the end of day 1 and all I was left with was VA for scum lean lol. Town core works!
 

EvilChameleon

Are you scum?
Hiii!

That's a great game Hedin, I had a lot of fun!
Both Hedin games I have been in I would say were my favorite games so far.
It just so happens that in the first, I was scum, and in this, everyone thought I was scum by the end of my last day in the game. My last post being that evil Luan "get it" gif instead of the more happy one I was posting the whole game prior to that point will never not make me smile with glee.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
Okay I'm glad he killed me because I was never not going to vote him today. I'm afraid Launch will get cold feet but I hope I hammered it into Launch's head that flipping VA was always the right vote.
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
Anex stole a donut from Launch so that should triple confirm him at this point. We'll see if VA can come up with anything that at least makes them pause or just proud wolfs it.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
WELL IT WAS NOT PANCAKES NEKI
:angry:
Fake mad but I just love the mad emojis so much.

Yeah like I said I had a strong feeling that it was a scum/town duo defending each other but VA and Pancakes both felt pretty genuine, that's why I insisted we had to vote out both.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
VA took out me since Launch has been having cold feet all game but I hope he holds true to his convictions on this one especially since I reassured him multiple times about it.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
VA took out me since Launch has been having cold feet all game but I hope he holds true to his convictions on this one especially since I reassured him multiple times about it.
I expect he’s also going to lean hard into Launch paranoia. But we’ll see!
 

Verelios

Were-elios
VA took out me since Launch has been having cold feet all game but I hope he holds true to his convictions on this one especially since I reassured him multiple times about it.
We'll see. I don't think there's anywhere else to go since Anex and Cap are pretty secure, but you never know what our very approachable friend will do next.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
@Natiko @heymonkey also I just want to know that I feel pretty similar to Zeke on the situation that while I may be paranoid of good players remaining in end game, I don't think or would approve of someone getting voted off based on reputation. I'd rather beat the good players because of social deduction and not because I want to policy vote out of paranoia. I think I would prefer to lose lose a hard fought game against someone playing well rather than win because I'm voting one of you out of pure paranoia of losing and being on a 'highlight' reel of massive big brain Nat/Monkey plays. (Like getting operation hydropump'd or something along those lines)

Basically when people were saying why Launch was still alive in the game thread and were being extremely paranoid about it, I just straight up said I'll take losing to scum!Launch if he played this good of a game than cheesing a win because he's alive late game with a good role he has to be scum. I just don't think it's a fun way to engage or play so I just wanted to let you two know that I really do feel you on that and I hope people can re-examine why they play mafia. It's not to win, it's to have fun and to let everyone have fun.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
I mean, I do play to win. I won't hedge on that - I want to win. But there's a lot I won't sacrifice to win, so I think we come out on the end on that. But I truly think at this point it's just not particularly good for me or anyone else if I play, for a lot of reasons. I feel comfortable with my decision to just not for a while, potentially forever.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
also glad I argued that kill intent is WIFOM despite VA trying to argue otherwise. Makes me feel good that the kill intent was WIFOM because it was completely random.
 

Neki

Bought a book once
All the stuff VA is doing right now is why WIFOM exists for me at least. It validates all the feelings I had of "wow he comes off as so town and sympathetic" but then I think to myself "town or scum can easily doing that" and why it's not alignment indicative at all. I will continue arguing for it in the future when people try to use it to town/scum read people.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I appreciate that Neki. It really can be demoralizing to feel like you will just always be under a cloud of suspicion, and like I said before I’m not remotely as good as Monkey - who also puts in WAY more effort than me so I’m sure it weighs even heavier on her. But hopefully if I just start memeing enough I can game it and people will never know if I’m playing straight or zany, or maybe that’ll make them more nervous. Who knows lol
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
The thing with me is... it's just effort lol. It's not any particular skill, but instead that I absolutely and unhealthily hyperfocus, and it can result in some wild swings of inspiration and big plays and it can also suffocate an entire game and derail everything because I am equally insistent and convinced when I am wrong. It's actually a crapshoot every time. And the only factor in that is me - my inability to control the hyperfocus and need to be always present and always talking. My behavior shapes a lot because I am a big personality and very loud. But that's still just... me. So me is going to go chill and work on me. I feel good about it.

But I think the larger conversation about play is always worth having, all the time, every game. We learn so much here in spec, I think, when we can separate and think, so long as we're approaching the poor fools in the arena with some empathy. Those determined suckers plugging away. <3
 

Neki

Bought a book once
I definitely learned a lot this game, having to be one of the main pushers on Town side is a lot of hard and stressful work especially when you don't know if you end up being right. Still good fun nonetheless. Automata was fun too but ultimately I was along for the ride for that and mechanics ended up ultimately solving that game lol.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
They gotta talk themselves into doing it. It's the worst feeling in the world knowing that if you're wrong here, you lose. endgame sucks.
 

Stantastic

Our Badminton Stanpion
VA gets honorary victory at this point right?

@Natiko @heymonkey also I just want to know that I feel pretty similar to Zeke on the situation that while I may be paranoid of good players remaining in end game, I don't think or would approve of someone getting voted off based on reputation. I'd rather beat the good players because of social deduction and not because I want to policy vote out of paranoia. I think I would prefer to lose lose a hard fought game against someone playing well rather than win because I'm voting one of you out of pure paranoia of losing and being on a 'highlight' reel of massive big brain Nat/Monkey plays. (Like getting operation hydropump'd or something along those lines)

Basically when people were saying why Launch was still alive in the game thread and were being extremely paranoid about it, I just straight up said I'll take losing to scum!Launch if he played this good of a game than cheesing a win because he's alive late game with a good role he has to be scum. I just don't think it's a fun way to engage or play so I just wanted to let you two know that I really do feel you on that and I hope people can re-examine why they play mafia. It's not to win, it's to have fun and to let everyone have fun.
Is there a way we can like, frame this? put it up on the outermafia wall?
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
I love you Launch. Last scum self voted, you already thought it would have to be him, but still did the work.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
The thing with me is... it's just effort lol. It's not any particular skill, but instead that I absolutely and unhealthily hyperfocus, and it can result in some wild swings of inspiration and big plays and it can also suffocate an entire game and derail everything because I am equally insistent and convinced when I am wrong. It's actually a crapshoot every time. And the only factor in that is me - my inability to control the hyperfocus and need to be always present and always talking. My behavior shapes a lot because I am a big personality and very loud. But that's still just... me. So me is going to go chill and work on me. I feel good about it.

But I think the larger conversation about play is always worth having, all the time, every game. We learn so much here in spec, I think, when we can separate and think, so long as we're approaching the poor fools in the arena with some empathy. Those determined suckers plugging away. <3
I think my counter point to that would be is I don’t have that hyper focus at all, yet I still experience similar (but lesser) stuff. So, I don’t think you should blame it on your attentiveness. Some of it is just.. meta, people, etc. doesn’t make it better but don’t conflate it as all X when there’s also Y and Z is all I’m saying.
They gotta talk themselves into doing it. It's the worst feeling in the world knowing that if you're wrong here, you lose. endgame sucks.
Yeah, end game sucks and NO ONE should be shamed about that.
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
Yeah, end game sucks and NO ONE should be shamed about that.

It hasn't happened here but in my old community I went three games in a row (two as town, one as mafia) where I was in the final three or four and lost all three. That was brutal. Then the next game I played I got to be the fool and I just begged them to vote me out early so I didn't get into that spot again, easiest win I ever got.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
It hasn't happened here but in my old community I went three games in a row (two as town, one as mafia) where I was in the final three or four and lost all three. That was brutal. Then the next game I played I got to be the fool and I just begged them to vote me out early so I didn't get into that spot again, easiest win I ever got.
End game is just so stupid stressful. I thew LB2. I almost thew Avatar and honestly I only got it right because scum got too weighted down. I went into that final three as the decision maker absolutely ready to vote out Monkey JUST BECAUSE I DIDNT WANT TO GET MEMED ON. That sucks. I recognize now that was probably ass for her. That’s what it’s fucked because it’s natural to be paranoid about those that betray us lol
 

Chuggernaut

HONK HONK MF
All of the props to VA for making it this far when he got stuck in a bad situation real early.

Going to give some props to town here too. This is one of the more impressive MELO's I've seen. They're being cautious, but they're not getting lost in paranoia and they're remembering why they town read the players that are there. Fucking good job dudes
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I don't think it's going to work, but VA playing brinkmanship with a self-vote in his position strikes me as a pretty clever move. With a little more doubt or uncertainty in the room, I think it could have triggered enough WIFOM amongst the others to force an error.
 

Vincent Alexander

My best friend is a monkey
Note sure if were open on who scum is yet but just in case.
Lmao VA is pulling my Avatar mafia tech, posting a big ass read about the player he just killed
I was afraid that Vere post was going to be waaay too obvious so I tried stating I had a read post out loud first as bait for someone to call my bluff and ask for it so I could go BLAM. But no one really did. So, it mostly failed. Lol. I refused to let it go so that's when I just awkwardly dropped it in the game.
 

anexanhume

My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
I was afraid that Vere post was going to be waaay too obvious so I tried stating I had a read post out loud first as bait for someone to call my bluff and ask for it so I could go BLAM. But no one really did. So, it mostly failed. Lol. I refused to let it go so that's when I just awkwardly dropped it in the game.
Don't gloss over the fact you got me to buy in. I thought it quite a bit of effort for scum to manufacture it, so I called you on it. The fact that you posted something reasonable in a short time span made it plausible you had prepared it and trashed it. At the time, it did make you feel a bit better about you given I hadn't yet seen scum put that much effort into a fake read yet.
 

anexanhume

My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Also, I've made it to end game and lost, been yeeted with a day vote (x2), and now made it to end game and won. I just need to be NK'ed to complete the set.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Launch is scum.

also i got an email from OM saying i should…i dunno, i don’t read spam, that i should post in this thread maybe. That’s funny. Is it only because i have access to it, or does OM also mail people scum thread titles?
I read like the first 2 pages of the game then skipped to the end and I believe launch is scum
I think Launch is scum
Scum were between Donnie and Launch last night.
Scum chat calling me a threat on N1, while spec chat is scum reading me. Priceless.

Pancakes isn’t mafia. She’s just someone having a good time.

Mafia is either on the Zipped wagon or is VA. That’s it.

This game should have been incredibly easy. Random is a very sensible flip in the game state. Right now he unlocks everything - either he’s mafia or it’s down to Bojack and VA. But if he flips town, it’ll be me, Pancakes, someone in the town core, oh no it’s actually Zipped- and I could see that and it made me fucking exhausted.

I quit. I’m gonna stay on as an admin but I’m done playing here. I think our game structure, our glee in designing tricks, in bussing, in extra paranoia, in fancy play and gambits, it’s not fun. It’s miserable. And I’m not leaving myself out. I carry it with me. I can see how I did it in at least two games at MU - how I did what people are doing to me. How I felt it here- the need to look at Launch, at Ambo of all people, because the trick is always at the fore. We are so focused on that that we can’t see any kind of just purity or enjoyment. We can’t find town because oh no someone has been nice or oh no someone did something mean once. I’m tired of contributing to it. I’m tired of being in it. I’m tired.

It makes me sad. I’m very sad to miss Russian Doll. But I wanted so badly to get to play a town game and I was so happy to get my PM and to do what I love. But when I realized that this is it, this is the BEST CASE for me- that’s not fun. It’s exhausting.

And I cried this morning because I stayed up for hours only to be met with fresh paranoia reads, because we can’t read WIM and excitement. And it reminded me of doing it to Jay and Wisdom at MU for the same reasons. And how genuinely frustrated they were and how hard it must have been to keep playing anyway. And I only did it because they were engaged. It had to be a power wolf.

I was wrong. And we are too.

And at this point if I play mafia, it means missing out on other things. I’m not going to make the choice if it makes me depressed. If it makes me feel like shit. And so I cried because I love this game and also because I hate what it does to me and because I will miss the intensity and the pure joy of GETTING IT.

I’m sorry for what Random is feeling. I truly am. It is hard to be in the PoE. But the town core strategy works and being in the PoE is a function of everyone solving and narrowing. This game is very clear. I am dead certain. So it sucks for him if it’s not him, but the answer is in those three and not in paranoia or fancy play. but we don’t know how to do that. I hope as a community we can all learn.

So I’m done. And I’ll be sad for a while but at least I’ll get some sleep.

And if your urge is to mock my feelings here then let me offer a preemptive fuck you.

I hope Neki replaces in and can ride off my exit and avoid getting the side eye he always gets for no good reason. But realizing that the towniest thing I could do was removing myself from the equation? That hurt. That hurt a lot.

and my last thing-

working together is hard. It's so much harder than anything else, really - harder than digging through posts and building cases. I should have just listened to Cappa. If my analysis pointed to him as town - and it did - then I should trust him on the name thing, even though it seems to make no sense to me. HE believes it. I believe that. And I believe he's town. So it should follow that I believe him, even if it doesn't change my read on Randomless much. The result ends up the same. The spirit is better. And maybe later we solve another part together because we built that spirit, because I listened and just accepted it instead of jumping to weird thought = nefarious purpose.

Maybe it's not possible. Maybe it's a pipe dream? And maybe right now I just feel too crushed by the general state of the world to chase another ideal and see it crumble. like I know this could absolutely just be... me. I'm just working through my thoughts aloud so I can close the book.
Monkey, I want to apologize for being rude to you and dismissing your feelings during the game.

I hope you'll reconsider your decision. For my part, nothing I said in that game was personal to you or your history in this community. I can honestly say what I said about you during the game was not based in paranoia, and we would have cleared that up through the normal course of the game without your replacement. I am absolutely certain about that. My intention was never to let that discussion take the oxygen out of the room and I felt that I did not let it to the best of my ability.

I also don't think you can expect people to not consider all the perspectives and angles in a game and play a certain specific way that's collaborative the way you're proposing. There are so many factors that play into how people interact with each other, there's no way you can achieve that. I don't think it's about this community learning; if you get the wrong mix of elements, even this process you're proposing would fall apart. I do not think it's a reasonable expectation, honestly.

I'd also like to say, I don't think it's fair to people like VA who played fantastically to single out effort as a signifier of alignment. VA absolutely put effort into this game. He played incredibly, and that's why it was so hard for me to see him in there without resorting to POE and townreads. He dug into putting together strong fake reads. Everyone's level of effort is different, and VA was not putting together the amount of words as other players, but there's no doubt in my mind he was trying his best and it shows. I personally could not scum read him based off of his approach, so it was fortunate we got there through a different path, but that's exactly why I was having difficulty getting the townread on you in that moment.

On a final note, some of us carry a lot of baggage with us. I've been there, not being able to go a game without people trying to vote you out D1 because of what happened in a previous game. I came into this spec chat and three people had scum reads on me right off the bat. ATP was scum reading me several days after Hedin had said scum almost killed me! So many of us have been there. Nat, Chuggs, HP, Geno - I can rattle off so many more names. We can't control how people are going to look at us. You're not an obstruction to town any more than any of these other players are.

So, I really hope you reconsider your decision. I hope nothing I've said here has been out of line, but I did want to express how I felt because I do see these things differently and I think you not playing would be a huge loss for this community. :(
 

HPSauce

Wait, I was right? Fuck
Scum chat calling me a threat on N1, while spec chat is scum reading me. Priceless.




Monkey, I want to apologize for being rude to you and dismissing your feelings during the game.

I hope you'll reconsider your decision. For my part, nothing I said in that game was personal to you or your history in this community. I can honestly say what I said about you during the game was not based in paranoia, and we would have cleared that up through the normal course of the game without your replacement. I am absolutely certain about that. My intention was never to let that discussion take the oxygen out of the room and I felt that I did not let it to the best of my ability.

I also don't think you can expect people to not consider all the perspectives and angles in a game and play a certain specific way that's collaborative the way you're proposing. There are so many factors that play into how people interact with each other, there's no way you can achieve that. I don't think it's about this community learning; if you get the wrong mix of elements, even this process you're proposing would fall apart. I do not think it's a reasonable expectation, honestly.

I'd also like to say, I don't think it's fair to people like VA who played fantastically to single out effort as a signifier of alignment. VA absolutely put effort into this game. He played incredibly, and that's why it was so hard for me to see him in there without resorting to POE and townreads. He dug into putting together strong fake reads. Everyone's level of effort is different, and VA was not putting together the amount of words as other players, but there's no doubt in my mind he was trying his best and it shows. I personally could not scum read him based off of his approach, so it was fortunate we got there through a different path, but that's exactly why I was having difficulty getting the townread on you in that moment.

On a final note, some of us carry a lot of baggage with us. I've been there, not being able to go a game without people trying to vote you out D1 because of what happened in a previous game. I came into this spec chat and three people had scum reads on me right off the bat. ATP was scum reading me several days after Hedin had said scum almost killed me! So many of us have been there. Nat, Chuggs, HP, Geno - I can rattle off so many more names. We can't control how people are going to look at us. You're not an obstruction to town any more than any of these other players are.

So, I really hope you reconsider your decision. I hope nothing I've said here has been out of line, but I did want to express how I felt because I do see these things differently and I think you not playing would be a huge loss for this community. :(
I always scum read you. :tamaworry:
 

weemadarthur

Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
Oh launch, I also always just scum read you on D1, it’s a meme more than a true read, but also you were probably playing into it this game due to being the cop and not wanting to be N1 kill, so that would just mean I was picking up what you were deliberately putting down if that was the case.

I also meme say it about anyone who posts a post with more than 5 sentences. Because I can’t let my lazy meta lapse.
 

weemadarthur

Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
I vaguely remember a point where I was considering bringing up that might just be flavor text, but then worried it'd be seen as scummy in a crucial point in time. I'm nkt sure if I'm mad or relieved I'm right.
It was good to see you play!
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Scum chat calling me a threat on N1, while spec chat is scum reading me. Priceless.




Monkey, I want to apologize for being rude to you and dismissing your feelings during the game.

I hope you'll reconsider your decision. For my part, nothing I said in that game was personal to you or your history in this community. I can honestly say what I said about you during the game was not based in paranoia, and we would have cleared that up through the normal course of the game without your replacement. I am absolutely certain about that. My intention was never to let that discussion take the oxygen out of the room and I felt that I did not let it to the best of my ability.

I also don't think you can expect people to not consider all the perspectives and angles in a game and play a certain specific way that's collaborative the way you're proposing. There are so many factors that play into how people interact with each other, there's no way you can achieve that. I don't think it's about this community learning; if you get the wrong mix of elements, even this process you're proposing would fall apart. I do not think it's a reasonable expectation, honestly.

I'd also like to say, I don't think it's fair to people like VA who played fantastically to single out effort as a signifier of alignment. VA absolutely put effort into this game. He played incredibly, and that's why it was so hard for me to see him in there without resorting to POE and townreads. He dug into putting together strong fake reads. Everyone's level of effort is different, and VA was not putting together the amount of words as other players, but there's no doubt in my mind he was trying his best and it shows. I personally could not scum read him based off of his approach, so it was fortunate we got there through a different path, but that's exactly why I was having difficulty getting the townread on you in that moment.

On a final note, some of us carry a lot of baggage with us. I've been there, not being able to go a game without people trying to vote you out D1 because of what happened in a previous game. I came into this spec chat and three people had scum reads on me right off the bat. ATP was scum reading me several days after Hedin had said scum almost killed me! So many of us have been there. Nat, Chuggs, HP, Geno - I can rattle off so many more names. We can't control how people are going to look at us. You're not an obstruction to town any more than any of these other players are.

So, I really hope you reconsider your decision. I hope nothing I've said here has been out of line, but I did want to express how I felt because I do see these things differently and I think you not playing would be a huge loss for this community. :(
sigh.

I'm not talking about anyone's effort or play. I don't know how many times I can keep saying this. I'm talking about me. Only me. That I'm not particularly "skilled," it's just the particularly unhealthy way "effort" manifests for me. It's not an indictment of anyone else. It is that I, myself, me, am not a good mix with this game. Please reread that post and understand that what I'm saying there is just about me, and my mental health, and my journey in trying to be healthy. Period. That's it.

You were not rude to me, though. You have nothing to apologize for.

eta: and i'm sorry if that wasn't clear. but i'm really not trying to say anything about anyone but me.
 
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Yeah I can't speak for monkey or anyone else but I know when I play mafia it takes so much mental effort for me, I have to get into a certain headspace. That's part of the reason I was so pissed about nightless mafia. Because the game might have only just started but I had already spent a lot of mental effort getting myself up for it.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
@LaunchpadMcQ it wasn't a serious scum read that late, more of a... why is launch's reads so bad :spy:
It is because I am, in fact, bad.
:thisisfine:
sigh.

I'm not talking about anyone's effort or play. I don't know how many times I can keep saying this. I'm talking about me. Only me. That I'm not particularly "skilled," it's just the particularly unhealthy way "effort" manifests for me. It's not an indictment of anyone else. It is that I, myself, me, am not a good mix with this game. Please reread that post and understand that what I'm saying there is just about me, and my mental health, and my journey in trying to be healthy. Period. That's it.

You were not rude to me, though. You have nothing to apologize for.

eta: and i'm sorry if that wasn't clear. but i'm really not trying to say anything about anyone but me.
Ok, I understand. I hope you can find your way back at some point :(
 

CaptainNuevo

MDTLA Enthusiast
Staff member
It was good to see you play!
Thanks, it was interesting to stretch my mafia muscles again. Now to wait for 6+ months again so I can avoid meta reads by playing completely differently again.

Also what's PoE stand for btw? People kept saying it and I figure it's like... your shortlist of people to be voted on, but can't figure out the acronym.
 
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