Spectator Thread House of Horrors Spec Thread
- Thread starter Natiko
- Start date
That is a harder question than it seems. #shruggie
Easy to say from up on high to be honest, the early game was too fucked which is what’s leading to this.
That's very true here - BUT
I can't remember a time when automatic WE DO THIS NOW chain lynch without reevaluation was a good plan. Show me when it was, Mafia Historian.
Have we ever forbidden anyone from including a role in their game due to recency/frequency? come on now Sorian.
The idea wasn’t that the review process wouldn’t have allowed it. The idea was that it’s such a rare occurrence that it would be wildly unlucky and unlikely to happen two games in a row.
Read Night Vale for a thorough thrashing were I called most out of lynches early days and we just went in order. It can happen both ways.
Thanks! One month away.
Sounds like it went down differently from this game tho. The thing is there hasn't really been anything that's easy to unlock here. It does make sense that they're struggling a bit and I don't think anyone expects the configuration of this game. But because there hasn't been anything easy to unlock, setting up chain lynches without reevaluation seems like a bad idea.
Oh, you're getting married? Congrats :D
Sure, it’s the opposite because it’s town winning with little opposition vs. scum winning with little opposition. The problem this game has had was a lot of passive lynches and no headway could be made without one scum flip so there was a thread to pull. I tried my best last day end with all the shenanigans but that strategy NEEDS VA, Kopite, or Brazil to be scum. Since that doesn’t seem to be the case, all I really did was likely throw the game for them but it was that it let inactivity keep walking the votes.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
In all fairness, I just looked and I was only a bit wrong. He did unvote me and later post doubts about me being scum. When he voted for me again, he gave 0 reason. Think it was just to get a vote down. So the push that Brazil still scumread me was a stretch.
Why hello ! I missed you this game :( You were my anchor. lol
Not stopping to re-evaluate was my biggest takeaway from Maple Street, and I tried hitting on this a few times in this game. No one listened :( Not that I was doing shit to find scum.
I've decided my only true skill is getting a read on town in their final hour. How they react sticks out to me like a sore thumb, which is why I felt strongly enough about Edge and Brazil towards the end.
He voted you back on a trust basis for what I was asking I assume. That’s why he gave no reasoning. It was when I told everyone on Kopite to adandon ship for you.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
So, does spectator chat know everyone's roles? I've never been in one. I just have to know if Rover is scum. It is killing me.
My pure bullshit list is Zeke, Rover, Gotham....Kopite?
My pure bullshit list is Zeke, Rover, Gotham....Kopite?
We don't have open spoilers yet but you can always ask Nat to pm you spoilers :P haha
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Aww <3 I like playing with you too.
I saw your post after I died too, made me even more disappointed in Scum for shooting me N1 lol.
For what it's worth, I would never have eaten you, that honor was being reserved for people like Faddy and Sorian.
Rover is the only one I care about. I want to know if I still know what I’m doing. He was making no sense, he has to be town.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
Do we have a place where we as a group ever just chat about overall strategy whether town or scum? Try to help each other, learn and grow outside of the games? My lack of confidence scum hunting and not knowing how to handle a game with sooo many players starting out makes me think I might avoid signing up for such large games in the future. I just don't even know where to begin. But again, I did love the beginning where people were more free to be goofy and have some fun. In my first game, I made a joke about the poisoned punch and the whole room side-eyed me and put a gun to my face.
If you would've pushed/voted him, I would've jumped on. I'm still so confused by some of his play if he is town.
Thank you!
lol. Sorian and Faddy must be lucky fellas.
Hmm that’s actually a good idea. I’d love a place to talk shop outside of the actual game threads or spec chats.
And yeah, I wouldn’t recommend trying to read Rover like a normal player. He is a very fringe case.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I would second this idea as well.
I think I've actually decided now that I prefer playing in larger games over smaller ones tbh.
As for scum hunting, my general advice is to jump at anything that you think seems scummy about someone and call them out and/or vote for them ASAP, and just generally be assertive with your reads and be prepared to explain them to anyone who questions you. My scum reads can be really fucking weak sometimes, and I am fully aware of it, but I still try to say them in a way that sounds confident, and if someone comes and tries to knock them over, I'll defend them with everything I've got.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
For an example, remember when I called out Fireblend for "lurking in the shadows" in Maple Street when he was just sitting around doing nothing and then popped in out of no where to do some role fishing? How right did I end up being about that one? Lol.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
I can't tell if scum are kicking ass, or if town is just eating themselves alive. People seem to have a really, really strong preconceived notion of what is and isn't scummy that they can't let go of, and woo...it leads to some shenanigans for sure. I wish more would admit that half of the game is just pure bullshit and guessing. At least the first few days for sure.
Verelios
Were-elios
This is unfortunately true but I don't see much of a solution for D1. It's just confidently throwing shit until somethings sticks. Bonus points if you can work an OMGUS into a reasonable argument.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Town definitely love to eat themselves alive in general, but it can be hard to get substantial stuff to work with until either a Scum flip or a PR with some good info can show up. Everyone's just trying their best to get to that first Scum flip and start working from there.
Unfortunately, everyone has been pretty wrong so far in this game, but there is also something about this game in particular that I think might be making it that way, without being too cryptic, just based on the spoilers that I have about the Scum Team, so I don't want to fault anyone too much for how they are going about their process out there.
I'd also just hang out and chat about strategies. Maybe we should make a subforum here?
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
As a newer player, I would love that a ton.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I considered that, but it could be useful to have a place to refer new players just wanting some additional avenues to learn from. You can’t really replicate that by saying “go to page whatever of this specific OT”. Open to more thoughts/suggestions though.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Might get in the way of all the shitposting though. :P
I had thought of that, but I think I kind of like the idea of just having a thread over here where we can just ask questions or share wisdom with each other.
malus
#1 official chartmaker
I think it could be interesting to have a "full spoiler" spec thread from the beginning of a game, where the moves of the players can be evaluated or potential strategies discussed based on the current game state. Though I'm not sure if it would work having two separate spec threads for each game, so maybe a general strategy thread over here may be a better solution.
cabot
Why.
I don't think it really works tbh, the early game spoiler threads are usually a quiet affair anyhoo, splitting them into two would make it worse.
If you want to go with your idea, malus, it would be best to do that through allowing spoiler talk in the thread from the off but keeping a strict 'within spoiler tags' policy.
If you want to go with your idea, malus, it would be best to do that through allowing spoiler talk in the thread from the off but keeping a strict 'within spoiler tags' policy.
I signed my own death warrant with my "I keep quiet when I'm a PR" post. I'm Vanilla so no loss.
I mean, except the entire game.
Also pmed it to Natiko, but I wonder if Aeleus even read the day opener. I don't get his post if he did.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
His role was never something he had any hope of understanding prior to a scum flip. Even then it’s a toss up if the dots would be connected.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
I wonder if not shooting Zeke last night is going to come back and bite them in the ass.
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
Going to be interesting to see how it all plays out. On a surface non spoiler level though, town is royally screwed.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
On a superficial spoiler level:
Town looks a bit less screwed than you would think, but on a true spoiler level they look:
screwed to the extent of it being extremely unlikely for them to win lol
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
Lmao. They are so fucking close. I have faith. Zeke just needs to keep at it.Light spoilers
Yup, called it.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah kind of surprised everyone let that go
I'm with you on the first three. Most definitely Ty. His town play is wildly different. I don't think Zeke is scum, but who knows...
I'd have said Faddy is scum, but comments here say he's town.
Where did my edit go?
I wonder about Chugger. He had a burst of activity last phase, now he's back to nothing. Fits scum behaviour. Just enough to fly under the radar and not actually solving.
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What's your reasoning for Aeleus?
And could it be that wee is the shooter and a neutral? @Sorian did you town read her all the way because of that assumption?
I don't think you have been very vocal on that and you scumread Faddy openly for a long time.
turmoil7
Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
85% gutfeels, 15% feeling some days more could pass and they still be safe from being near too lunched
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
It's not as grim as it sounds. They're on the verge of having the win virtually locked.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I have been wondering for a bit now about something else related to this...
Was I the only Neutral in the game, or is there another? Also, was it even possible for me to shoot Scum?
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
You were the only neutral. It was possible for you to shoot scum....kind of.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Interesting. Thank you.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I would be interested to know what the remaining PRs are for Town/Scum if you want to share that info.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Town only has the Acolyte and Lovers left. Scum have some kill modifiers that are irrelevant, the day kill, and also a role check (vanilla or not) that is also irrelevant at this point. This game was light on PRs.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
So if I did my math right...
They are approaching LyLo after 2 more day phases, right? The Day Shot plus being able to kill the Lovers essentially gives Scum 2 extra bonus kills. So if no Scum are lynched, then D7 would be 3 Town/2 Scum, correct?
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Full on spoilers for the design of the game:
So, it's actually a bit more dire than that. Town only has a single mislynch left, if they mislynch twice they absolutely cannot win. If they mislynch even once they can ONLY win by turboing scum on an even day prior to the day kill being submit. The reason for this (and crux of the small scum team) is... (the full on spoilers below)
Scum are not purely a two person scum team. If scum were to be lynched they would flip as their initial role (for both of these scum it is vanilla town) with the entire role PM struck out. Then below the PM a highlighted message would be posted saying the spirits have been diminished. I would then perform an RNG roll to determine the next player to be possessed who would then be converted into a second scum with the exact same role as the one that died. This means that the first scum death actually diminishes town's numbers by one as opposed to scum.
Then when a second scum dies, no further possession occurs (the same role PM flip with their initial role struck out), but instead the final remaining scum inherits the powers of the dead scum. This in essence means the even day kill can never be purged from the game until town wins.
Bonus info - scum had no protection directly from Fanto's neutral role. Instead what would have happened if Fanto targeted them is that player would die, role PM struck out, but NO highlighted spirits diminished message would be posted. This is because it would not count as scum losing a life and instead Fanto would become scum in their stead. The price of eating tainted meat.
Then when a second scum dies, no further possession occurs (the same role PM flip with their initial role struck out), but instead the final remaining scum inherits the powers of the dead scum. This in essence means the even day kill can never be purged from the game until town wins.
Bonus info - scum had no protection directly from Fanto's neutral role. Instead what would have happened if Fanto targeted them is that player would die, role PM struck out, but NO highlighted spirits diminished message would be posted. This is because it would not count as scum losing a life and instead Fanto would become scum in their stead. The price of eating tainted meat.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
if vt is their initial role who is sending the night kills
It's their initial town role. The two scum players actually had this replicated at game start too. They each received a vanilla town role PM with the info crossed out, a highlighted message stating they were possessed, and then a scum role PM. The scum roles are never flipped due to the passing of role from one member to the next. Ironically despite the possession message they received at the beginning scum have spent the entire game convinced they're going to lose because they can't figure out a way to recruit. They've spent more time searching for recruitable crumbs than anything else.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Oh and as for Faddy's claim:
His role specifies that he protects his target's "spirit" for two nights, but not their body. What this means mechanically is anyone currently blessed by him at the time of a scum flip are excluded from the possession roll.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Just out of curiosity:
What would have happened if Faddy protected my spirit and I killed Scum? Do I still become Scum since I'm not technically being "possessed" but instead I'm "eating tainted meat" or do I remain a Neutral because of Faddy's protection?
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
You would still be possessed since that specific interaction works differently than the normal possession mechanic.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I will say I'm still not certain if this game was balanced, but that it turned out fairly well all told.
The game is going to run until bare minimum the end of Day 6 if they never hit scum which isn't too shabby all told. Town had some really bad breaks with their most powerful PRs early on. Had Fanto survived longer this could've tilted harder against them, but at the same time if town hadn't whiffed across the board so far that would have helped as well. Most I can see is an extra vanilla role or two. Scum also probably should have had their stealth/strong kill shots reduced, but they've had literally no impact on this game so it's whatever.
No, I town read her mostly for the filthy claim. At the time, I don’t think scum would have put their neck out with that claim, it makes more sense to do it now since we’ve seen multiple modifiers that are clearly doing nothing but at the time, I think it was a riskier move that someone like wee doesn’t take. I also don’t think she’s the shooter, I think it’s Ty.
Faddy forced me to put pen to paper and put down complete feelings on him and who should die before or after, if nothing else, he should have countered by quoting that post.
Also I guess mechanical question:
Sorry if you said that somewhere already and if I flossed over it.
Could Rover, Sparks, Myself, L_P, Sae, or Vere have been possessed? If so, did we lose our original role? And if so there, how does that work with the lovers?
Sorry if you said that somewhere already and if I flossed over it.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I think if town could have just gotten one scum death and seen what unfolded it would've helped them start to get on track. They were so close repeatedly with one of them, but it's seeming less and less likely they'll get one before it's too late now.
The possession mechanic works as thus:
Total "vanilla" (this includes smelly and what not) townies left alive subtract those currently blessed. If that number is 4 or more then possess one of those players. If that number is 3 or less then roll between those players plus all remaining PRs. All active town PRs possessed would lose their original role, the one exception being a Lover as they would still be in the chat and tethered to a town player. I didn't love the inconsistency in how it worked, but seeing as only one possession would occur all game there was no way for it to 'feel' inconsistent from the players perspective. Also just numbers wise it was unlikely to happen at a low enough player count to actually possess a PR.
Total "vanilla" (this includes smelly and what not) townies left alive subtract those currently blessed. If that number is 4 or more then possess one of those players. If that number is 3 or less then roll between those players plus all remaining PRs. All active town PRs possessed would lose their original role, the one exception being a Lover as they would still be in the chat and tethered to a town player. I didn't love the inconsistency in how it worked, but seeing as only one possession would occur all game there was no way for it to 'feel' inconsistent from the players perspective. Also just numbers wise it was unlikely to happen at a low enough player count to actually possess a PR.
Seems legit to me
I’d probably not let the bless mechanic punish town by making it possible to possess a PR just because the blessing targets were still alive, do the math on the greater or less than 3/4 without taking into account blessed and then if blessed lowers it more, then just a very small of people to choose from, with it only happening once, it’s doubtful anyone sees the pattern anyway. I do also think this game needed a more explicit cop. Sae should have acted as one but I think the fact that he could be a doctor or cop means that he could have went doctor instead. Games with this low of a % of scum usually need that way to lower the field of view a bit because honestly, the way this game is going where town hasn’t found anyone yet was probably the most likely scenario. It ties in well too because after the first scum death, the cop has to throw away all their results anyway. That said, I’m not taking into account Fanto’s role completely since he ended up being a non presence due to the N1 death.
Overall though, the mechanic was a great idea, shame we won’t actually see it happen though.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, there are definitely some things I would tweak some. Balance was my biggest concern going in, just because it's such an odd setup. Oh and one other thing I will add that I haven't mentioned previously:
I split up the scum roles in a way to try and force them to make 'unprotected' movements as well. So Scum 1 has stealth kills and a vanilla cop. Scum 2 has strong kills and the every other day kill. Where this comes into play is that the scum that submits the day kill can make no actions the following night.
What that results in is scum either never using the strong kill and the vanilla check or (and this is what I expected and what this scum team chose to do) N1 Scum 2 does an unstealthed kill and Scum 1 does an unstealthed vanilla check; N2 Scum 1 does a stealth kill with no vanilla check and Scum 2 does nothing. Essentially making it thus that scum are exposed to the tracker fully on one night, and not at all on another.
What that results in is scum either never using the strong kill and the vanilla check or (and this is what I expected and what this scum team chose to do) N1 Scum 2 does an unstealthed kill and Scum 1 does an unstealthed vanilla check; N2 Scum 1 does a stealth kill with no vanilla check and Scum 2 does nothing. Essentially making it thus that scum are exposed to the tracker fully on one night, and not at all on another.
Fair, that does help some.
In regards to the cop idea I had above, another way to do it is to just not give scum a ninja at all in this case. That said, putting them in a position where they can’t hide everynight is an elegant solution to the usual issue of a doctor or motion detector role being worthless the first few nights until the scum counter runs out of shots
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
After seeing how everything played out I probably should have made it explicitly a weak cop just to make sure the role would be utilized the most efficient way. I could have done a x-shot full cop, but I think they would be less likely to provide consistent utility comparatively. Maybe make a normal bodyguard with the backup doctor still to keep that intact. Reduce stealth and strong shots just to be safe as well.
I think they are hoping to keep them around until the end to help push for their victory, plus there's been just enough doubt about them and generally speaking they haven't ever been pushing on the actual scum players. Generally though the scum team hasn't discussed..well, much of anything.
Lol
Have they been discussing the day targets at all or does that member just fly solo on the choices?
I hope it’s the latter.