Design & discussion

[Pedro]

Here's the link to the design sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gIw2BJza5I_M81FWFI48mYD1F3Mtxc_RoGK6FwOVSHU/edit#gid=0

Designer: @heymonkey
Reviewers: @Pedro , @Fireblend

 

[heymonkey]

IT'S GENIUS, RIGHT? TOTALLY PERFECT. GOOD JOB, ME.

 

[Fireblend]

As a huge SU fan, I love the flavor.

As a newbie but prodigious reviewer, I say with 100% confidence that the design is absolutely perfect :D

errr... maybe wait on Pedro though.

------

Comments from what I can see:

- There's some potentially interesting interactions between Messenger and Lovers/Redirect, I like it
- Isn't Gossip and Messenger a bit redundant? Gossip means they'd get their own chat with whoever they target, right?
- Are the lovers getting a chat too?
- I agree that doublevote should have a limit or maybe a trigger associated with it, not so much because of balance but because it sounds more fun :D

Again, I'm new at this but if I had to guess towards which side the game was balanced right now, I'd guess town, because of the off-thread communication options and the lynch+bulletproofs. But what do I know :D

Note for Pedro: Should we add messenger to the usual roles list?

 

[heymonkey]

Gossip would get a chat, yeah, but just for one night. I'm cool with changing Amethyst from messenger to something else because I really could not think of anything that would fit her and fit the game. I thought having her send silly messages would be funny.

Lovers getting a chat or not is something I'd have to decide. They die together so it might be nice to give them a chat but to improve negative utility for balance it might be good not to.

Another point: possibly more balanced to make Jasper a strong kill rather than a role block.

 

[heymonkey]

cabot and Palmer taught me a little bit about how to work out balance, so I'm thinking about the game like this (this is worst case for town)

d1 a townie is lynched - say not steven, not lovers = 16 v 4
n1 bodyguard fails, hits lovers = 14 vs 4
d2 a townie is lynched, not steven = 13 vs 4
n2 a townie is killed = 12 vs 4
d3 scum busses their beloved = 12 vs 3
n3 two townies are killed, no protection = 10 vs 3
d4 townie is lynched = 9 vs 3
n4 townie dead = 8 vs 3
d5 townie is lynched = 7 vs 3
n5 townie is killed = 5 vs 3
d6 = mylo

Now, it's likely that at least one of these would be disrupted, but role cop helps scum find out how to avoid (potentially). Likely game would go to d8 if scum gets unlucky but still wins; approximately day six or seven if town manages to win, maybe fewer if they get real lucky.

 

[Pedro]

Hi hi, I wanted to say here that I've been busy handling other Mafiera tasks, but once things calm down later this week I promise I will work on this game.

As a sidenote, I've been wanting to watch Steven Universe for months and this will finally make me do that. I watched the movie Cluedo before reviewing that game, it's only fair.

 

[heymonkey]

No rush! I'm just gonna yammer, probably.

 

[Fireblend]

cabot and Palmer taught me a little bit about how to work out balance, so I'm thinking about the game like this (this is worst case for town)

d1 a townie is lynched - say not steven, not lovers = 16 v 4
n1 bodyguard fails, hits lovers = 14 vs 4
d2 a townie is lynched, not steven = 13 vs 4
n2 a townie is killed = 12 vs 4
d3 scum busses their beloved = 12 vs 3
n3 two townies are killed, no protection = 10 vs 3
d4 townie is lynched = 9 vs 3
n4 townie dead = 8 vs 3
d5 townie is lynched = 7 vs 3
n5 townie is killed = 5 vs 3
d6 = mylo

Now, it's likely that at least one of these would be disrupted, but role cop helps scum find out how to avoid (potentially). Likely game would go to d8 if scum gets unlucky but still wins; approximately day six or seven if town manages to win, maybe fewer if they get real lucky.

This is cool, thanks for mentioning it! It gives me a headache to think about how I'd make a similar worst-case-scenario timeline in Doctor Who though D: lol

 

[heymonkey]

The worst case is easier than when you start trying to think about blocks and interference and misses....

 

[Pedro]

I finally have time!!

You could make the doublevoter only have the power until a certain day, since 2 votes are more and more valuable as the game reaches the end. Or, i don't know, is this Stevonnie person friends with someone in the cartoon? Maybe make it have this power as long as someone else is alive in the game.

I'd give Peridot a warning after the redirect power has been used. This switcheroo could make Town go around in circles for days, not knowing when the redirect happened and what information they currently have is false. If Peridot has the chance to say "hey, someone tried to target me and failed, so don't trust the results you got!", it could send them on the right track a little.

Are the flavor names indicative of their alignments? Or are there good characters in Scum, bad characters in Town? I'm wondering how useless Ronaldo really is.

I too think Town has the advantage as it is, they have a lot of tools to control the flow of the game.
At best, this game will have 1 kill per night, but with the commuter, the BP, the bodyguard and the jailer, this can go on for a while.

 

[Pedro]

The Messenger role was removed from the design, what was it about, febe?

 

[Pedro]

Longest scenario:

17t, 4m - game begins
17t, 4m - D1 end, the Lynchproof doesn't get lynched
17t, 4m - N1 end, Mafia tries to kill the Commuter and fails
16t, 4m - D2 end, a Named Townie is lynched
16t, 4m - N2 end, Mafia tries to kill the Bulletproof and fails (Bulletproof is out of shots here)
15t, 4m - D3 end, a second Named Townie is lynched
15t, 4m - N3 end, Mafia tries to kill a jailed player and fails
14t, 4m - D4 end, a third Named Townie is lynched
14t, 4m - N4 end, Mafia tries to kill a jailed player and fails (Jailer is out of shots here)
13t, 4m - D5 end, the fourth Named Townie is lynched
13t, 3m - N5 end, Mafia tries to kill the Redirector and ends up hitting the Mafia Role Cop
12t, 3m - D6 end, the Flavor Cop is lynched
11t, 3m - N6 end, Mafia kills the Bodyguard
10t, 3m - D7 end, the Lynchproof is lynched
9t, 3m - N7 end, Mafia kills the Redirector
9t, 2m - D8 end, the Mafia Goon is lynched
8t, 2m - N8 end, Mafia kills the Cop
7t, 2m - D9 end, the Jailer is lynched
6t, 2m - N9 end, Mafia kills the Gossip
6t, 1m - D10 end, the Mafia Roleblocker is lynched
5t, 1m - N10 end, Mafia kills Amethyst
4t, 1m - D11 end, the Commuter is lynched
3t, 1m - N11 end, the Bulletproof is lynched
D12 is LyLo

Of course, this will never happen, but it *can* happen

 

[Pedro]

As resourceful as Town is right now, that Cop looks too strong, I think.

Now I'm going to watch a few episodes of the show.

 

[Fireblend]

I finally have time!!

You could make the doublevoter only have the power until a certain day, since 2 votes are more and more valuable as the game reaches the end. Or, i don't know, is this Stevonnie person friends with someone in the cartoon? Maybe make it have this power as long as someone else is alive in the game.

I like this because it makes sense flavor-wise. Maybe they can keep their double vote until either Steven or Connie exit the game.

I'd give Peridot a warning after the redirect power has been used. This switcheroo could make Town go around in circles for days, not knowing when the redirect happened and what information they currently have is false. If Peridot has the chance to say "hey, someone tried to target me and failed, so don't trust the results you got!", it could send them on the right track a little.

This seems fair. Uninformed redirects are a nightmare. This tilts balance even more in favor of town, no? maybe consider removing the redirect altogether?

Are the flavor names indicative of their alignments? Or are there good characters in Scum, bad characters in Town? I'm wondering how useless Ronaldo really is.

They're indicative of alignment, yeah. I could think of 2 characters with dubious alignment on Town's side though. To the bolded: Very.

 

[Fireblend]

A smart scumteam would block+kill on their first 3 nights, or at least that's how I tend to play btw. Exhaust all good roles' shots asap.

 

[Pedro]

I like this because it makes sense flavor-wise. Maybe they can keep their double vote until either Steven or Connie exit the game.

Oh, Stevonnie, Steven, Connie, I see i see (i still don't get it, maybe it's a fusion, or a ship).

This seems fair. Uninformed redirects are a nightmare. This tilts balance even more in favor of town, no? maybe consider removing the redirect altogether?

It does, yeah. That cop will def need a negative modifier, like Weak or only giving it a few shots.

They're indicative of alignment, yeah. I could think of 2 characters with dubious alignment on Town's side though. To the bolded: Very.

So Ronaldo would be able to catch scum by their flavor names. That's two cops with infinite uses on Town's side. And if everyone decides to mass claim, that would be a problem for mafia as well? Don't know about those fake claims.

 

[Fireblend]

I was also thinking that, those role names are very strong alignment indicators. Scum ones are obviously bad and out of the townie ones, only Peridot and Lapis are somewhat arguable.

The fake claims are 2 town residents, which fit with the other vanilla townie names, and 2 "powered" side characters (trying not to spoil you here Pedro), of which there are other 2 (Sugilite and Sardonyx) as PRs town-side, so I think they're good.

 

[heymonkey]

I like this because it makes sense flavor-wise. Maybe they can keep their double vote until either Steven or Connie exit the game.

I LOVE THIS.

This seems fair. Uninformed redirects are a nightmare. This tilts balance even more in favor of town, no? maybe consider removing the redirect altogether?

Agreed, will add it.

They're indicative of alignment, yeah. I could think of 2 characters with dubious alignment on Town's side though. To the bolded: Very.

Oh, I'm not planning to give Ronaldo results with names. It will be the most bullshit jumbled excerpt of flavor. I want that role to be negative utility. Let me make that clear in the spreadsheet that it's not a typical flavor cop. I want it to be random info that in the wrong hands could be bad. So either you get a random scrap of the PM that is totally useless, or like in Buffy, I give everyone a title that isn't their actual role (so some people are gems, fusions, or even there are silly names, like "a stickler for rules," which could be any number of these characters on scum or town sides)

Oh, Stevonnie, Steven, Connie, I see i see (i still don't get it, maybe it's a fusion, or a ship).

They're a fusion!

I do want something else that will limit the longest scenario. i've bee thinking on it but i haven't come up with any good ideas yet.

 

[Pedro]

Thanks for not spoiling me, febe <3

Oh, I'm not planning to give Ronaldo results with names. It will be the most bullshit jumbled excerpt of flavor. I want that role to be negative utility. Let me make that clear in the spreadsheet that it's not a typical flavor cop. I want it to be random info that in the wrong hands could be bad. So either you get a random scrap of the PM that is totally useless, or like in Buffy, I give everyone a title that isn't their actual role (so some people are gems, fusions, or even there are silly names, like "a stickler for rules," which could be any number of these characters on scum or town sides)

Oooooh, now I see how useless he is! That's great (and bastard-y :D).

 

[heymonkey]

Yeah, I know everyone says "make the game first and then add the flavor" but I'm a rebel and I want the roles to reflect the characters. Ronaldo is sometimes very insightful but he does dumb stuff with the info he gets, so.

 

[heymonkey]

are we supposed to check in? I'm still trying to figure out what to do with amethyst :)

 

[Pedro]

Roy will talk about it with us in the next days.

Now that I'm almost done with the first season, I'm more aware of the decisions you made here. Do you really want to make all gems (is Connie a gem? what was up with that fusion? don't answer) power roles?
The best I could think for Amethyst was the Friendly Neighbor, which is similar to what you already have.

I said before that bulletproof + lynchproof + commuter + jailer + bodyguard + cop is kind of a lot to Town. I could see Garnet as a Motion Detector as well with her Future Vision, which would be a weaker role than a cop.

Revealing Sugilite's alignment after losing her BP would make town trust her even more, with her being confirmed. I'd leave it as it is.

 

[heymonkey]

Oh, I like a motion detector better there, that's true. But Connie is not a gem, no, and Lars and Sadie are also PRs.

 

[heymonkey]

I would like to replace a couple of these with something a bit more creative/less powerful but I'm not great at coming up with that stuff.

 

[Pedro]

Oh yeah, forgot about Lars and Sadie (perfect roles for them). Which ones would you have replaced?

 

[Pedro]

I browsed the mafia universe database and saw a few other roles that reminded me of amethyst. The perfect one for her would be doppelganger, but that's a mafia one :p

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Copycat

"The Copycat may each night target another player and copy their action and use it on a second player also chosen by the Copycat."


https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Gladiator

"The Gladiator may once per game choose to publicly announce that they are challenging a certain player, which will cause only those two players to be votable on that day."


https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Party Host

"The Party Host may once per game choose to host a party, which will cause the game thread to remain open during night, allowing for public night chat between everyone. This action must be submitted during the preceding day phase."

 

[heymonkey]

PARTY HOST?! OMG that is awesome and someone gets it. That could be Steven instead of lynchproof.

 

[heymonkey]

I do like Gladiator for Amethyst though.

 

[heymonkey]

I THINK IT IS DONE

 

[heymonkey]

or at least ready to be looked at for balance

 

[Pedro]

It's good that Town lost a lynchproof and a cop.

But now I see another issue: there can be up to 3 night chats going on with Town.
I wouldn't give Lars and Sadie a private chat, and Ruby and Sapphire finding each other should be harder than it is; maybe like you said, only giving the chance to search to one of them.

Nothing for Sapphire if Ruby dies first?

 

[Pedro]

I worry about the unlimited roleblock from Jasper, hm
let me see how much damage it can do

 

[heymonkey]

so lars and sadie are masons without a chat then instead of lovers. I feel like lovers should get a chat. but that removes the negative utility. maybe I replace Sardonyx then? Sardonyx should DEFINITELY have a gossip chat if she's in the game.

 

[heymonkey]

I did scrap the jailer, who'd get a chat.

 

[heymonkey]

maybe sardonyx can be the messenger....

 

[Pedro]

Party Host - sent during the day, not affected by mafia roleblock
doublevoter - sent during the day, not affected by
Gladiator - sent during the day, not affected by
odd-night commuter - passive, not affected by
1-shot random redirect - passive, not affected by
1 shot BP - passive, not affected by
2-shot roleblock - i mean, roleblock vs. roleblock, that's silly
flavor cop - ronaldo should be thankful he doesn't do shit during the night, affected by
mason check x 2 - affected by
Bodyguard - affected by
2-shot gossip- affected by

 

[Pedro]

So it seems Jasper would only reaaaally hurt Town with her unlimited shots if she targets the Bodyguard over and over.
And you may want to put the Mason check above Roleblock on the action priority list.

So... I'm okay with the unlimited shots :P

 

[heymonkey]

can't target the bodyguard more than every other night, so

 

[Pedro]

I did scrap the jailer, who'd get a chat.

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Jailer.

a Jailer, a Lynchproof, a Cop. Good job!

can't target the bodyguard more than every other night, so

There's that too! Yeah, Jasper is totally okay to me.

 

[Pedro]

The Messenger role was removed from the design, what was it about, febe?

No one answered me when I asked this, what is the messenger?

 

[heymonkey]

Should I replace Sardonyx with another character? or make her a messenger?

 

[heymonkey]

No one answered me when I asked this, what is the messenger?

wait, what?

 

[heymonkey]

OH! i could limit lars and sadie to only day chat

 

[heymonkey]

and keep sardonyx

 

[Pedro]

What does the Messenger role do? I don't recognize the name.

 

[heymonkey]

Oh, messenger just sends messages through the gamerunner to other players, usually with some limit
It's not a super useful role. I'd rather have something with utility since we have a few that are none/negative

 

[Pedro]

Gossip feels more useful to the player compared to it, I prefer it over the Messenger.

OH! i could limit lars and sadie to only day chat

That's a little better. Will they know each other is town or not? If they're getting a chat, I say they shouldn't.

 

[heymonkey]

I mean, they're lovers. They die together so yes, I think they should.

 

[Pedro]

I see you're still thinking about confirming Sugilite once she loses the BP. Why?

 

[heymonkey]

where is febe, he will advocate for me!

 

[heymonkey]

You said that, didn't you? I don't have to. That can easily go.

 

[Pedro]

I mean, they're lovers. They die together so yes, I think they should.

Nevermind; I still had the Cop in my mind and was worried about her green checking both when targeting one. Since people will only know their alignments once they're dead, it's cool.

You said that, didn't you? I don't have to. That can easily go.

thanks.

---

Please add to the sheet that Peridot will be informed when she loses the redirect, and that Lars and Sadie can only talk during the day.

 

[Pedro]

I want to figure out Ruby and Sapphire before touching on other parts of the design. So far it's been a smooth review~

for future pedro to remember:
roleblock vs. roleblock
role names
ronaldo examples

 

[heymonkey]

OKAY
NOW maybe it's done

 

[heymonkey]

I adjusted Ruby/Sapphire, took out Sardonyx, added another named townie, and did the thing with Mr. Smiley.

 

[heymonkey]

should NON PLAYERS be able to post during the party or is that too much?

eta: no, people might spoil, so can't do that.

 

[Pedro]

Ookay, new roles now.

 

[Pedro]

Longest scenario:

18t, 4m - game begins
17t, 4m - D1 end, Named Townie 1 gets lynched
17t, 4m - N1 end, Mafia tries to kill the Commuter and fails
16t, 4m - D2 end, Named Townie 2 gets lynched
16t, 4m - N2 end, Mafia tries to kill someone and gets jailed, fails
15t, 4m - D3 end, Named Townie 3 gets lynched
15t, 4m - N3 end, Mafia gets jailed again, fails
14t, 4m - D4 end, Named Townie 4 gets lynched
14t, 4m - N4 end, Mafia tries to kill Sugilite, fails
13t, 4m - D5 end, Ronaldo gets lynched
13t, 3m - N5 end, Mafia tries to kill Peridot, gets redirected to one of their own
12t, 3m - D6 end, Peridot gets lynched
12t, 3m - N6 end, Mafia tries to kill a protected target, fails
11t, 3m - D7 end, Steven gets lynched
10t, 3m - N7 end, Mafia kills Stevonnie
09t, 3m - D8 end, Connie gets lynched
08t, 3m - N8 end, Mafia kills Sapphire
07t, 3m - D9 end, Ruby gets lynched
06t, 3m - N9 end, Mafia kills Amethyst
05t, 3m - D10 end, Pearl gets lynched
04t, 3m - N10 end, Mafia kills Sugilite
04t, 2m - D11 end, Holly Blue Agate gets lynched
03t, 2m - N11 end, Mafia kills Lapis Lazuli
03t, 1m - D12 end, Blue Diamond gets lynched
02t, 1m - N12 end, Mafia kills Mr. Smiley
D13 is LyLo

It's one day longer than with the previous design, probably becaue Garnet is now 2 characters. Just to give you an idea of how many times can Mr. Smiley give items.

 

[Pedro]

If Jasper roleblocks Lapis Lazuli, Lapis Lazuli jails Holly Blue Agate, and Holly Blue Agate kills someone, what happens?

1. Do they all go through, meaning Holly won't kill
2. Whatever comes first blocks the second, meaning Holly will kill

 

[Pedro]

should NON PLAYERS be able to post during the party or is that too much?

eta: no, people might spoil, so can't do that.

That would be super fun, but there's no way to force non players to be respectul; depends on how much you trust people ^^

---

Ronaldo won't know he's a shitty flavor cop, right? What's the point of a negative utility role if the player is aware of that. If so, the role name shouldn't have "Weak" in it.
Just trying to get the role names right to see how powerful can Aquamarine and her role shots be.

Also, could you give me a few examples of things he'd learn from his actions?

 

[heymonkey]

If Jasper roleblocks Lapis Lazuli, Lapis Lazuli jails Holly Blue Agate, and Holly Blue Agate kills someone, what happens?

1. Do they all go through, meaning Holly won't kill
2. Whatever comes first blocks the second, meaning Holly will kill

Well, I'd put kills last in the order so the kill wouldn't happen until I resolved the roleblocks. I'm not sure what to do there. Ideas?

That would be super fun, but there's no way to force non players to be respectul; depends on how much you trust people ^^

---

Ronaldo won't know he's a shitty flavor cop, right? What's the point of a negative utility role if the player is aware of that. If so, the role name shouldn't have "Weak" in it.
Just trying to get the role names right to see how powerful can Aquamarine and her role shots be.

Also, could you give me a few examples of things he'd learn from his actions?

No, he will just be given the information that he is a flavor cop. I could give him:
-a random line from the pm, like "you are a"
-that someone is a rock person
-someone has an invisible pet
-(if lars) you could be friends, you know
-the target is short
-Steven is pregnant (which does confirm Steven is in the game, sorta)
-the target is a snake person
-maybe just some of his quotes from the show

I'd make sure I had a whole list of options when writing his PM. whoever gets this role is gonna hate me.

 

[heymonkey]

Also I don't want this to go 13 days so I could drop a named townie and maybe make someone else a vig instead? Sugilite could be vig instead of BP.

 

[Pedro]

Well, I'd put kills last in the order so the kill wouldn't happen until I resolved the roleblocks. I'm not sure what to do there. Ideas?

I think that's up to you, as long as you're consistent. I'll talk with people to see if this situation happened before, and how it was dealt with.

Changing Sugilite's role would be nice. Or/and you could drop a named townie and make another scum?? We had a few games with 22/23 players and 5 scum members, it's not unusual.

 

[heymonkey]

Yeah, but the lovers and a vig, maybe two, are already negative utility. I'll fiddle with it and look again.

 

[Pedro]

What's a part-gem? You mean Steven?

 

[Pedro]

NO to Haiku, that's not fun.

 

[Pedro]

I think I'm happy with how Town looks now, haven't paid too much attention to Mafia.

 

[heymonkey]

part-gem would be Steven and Stevonnie.

 

[Pedro]

Some ideas for the Inventor:

Good:
1-shot Tracking
Vote Thief for 1 day
BP vest
1-shot Cop
1-shot Memory of the past night

Stupid:
Lie Detector, the player links a post from anyone to you, and asks if it's a lie or not.
Sleepwalking pill, which is useless since no one's checking movement except for the tracking shot above
Parrot
gif posting

Bad:
Faulty BP vest, doesn't work but the player doesn't know that. Maybe even Smiley doesn't know that, and he gives it thinking it's a good one
Lightning Rod, soaks all night actions, basically asking to die
Hated
Voteless for 1 day

 

[Pedro]

Well, I'd put kills last in the order so the kill wouldn't happen until I resolved the roleblocks. I'm not sure what to do there. Ideas?

I talked with people and they all agreed to resolve these actions following the order of events. So Jasper successfully roleblocks Lapis Lazuli, Lapis Lazuli *doesn't jail* Holly Blue Agate, and Holly Blue Agate is free to kills someone.

 

[heymonkey]

following the order of events - what does that mean? Who sent first?

 

[heymonkey]

Some ideas for the Inventor:

Good:
1-shot Tracking
Vote Thief for 1 day
BP vest
1-shot Cop
1-shot Memory of the past night

Stupid:
Lie Detector, the player links a post from anyone to you, and asks if it's a lie or not.
Sleepwalking pill, which is useless since no one's checking movement except for the tracking shot above
Parrot
gif posting

Bad:
Faulty BP vest, doesn't work but the player doesn't know that. Maybe even Smiley doesn't know that, and he gives it thinking it's a good one
Lightning Rod, soaks all night actions, basically asking to die
Hated
Voteless for 1 day

OH MAN THESE ARE WAY MORE CREATIVE

 

[heymonkey]

vote thief - steals someone else's vote or controls it?

 

[Pedro]

following the order of events - what does that mean? Who sent first?

It's not about who sent the command earlier in the night phase.

If the RB targeted the Jailer, and the Jailer targeted someone else, the Jailer can't act.
If the Jailer targeted the RB, and the RB targeted someone else, the RB can't act.

 

[Pedro]

vote thief - steals someone else's vote or controls it?

Normally the Vote Thief steals a vote from someone and becomes a doublevoter during the next day. For the sake of balance, since we already have a Doublevoter, I'd say they instead turn a player into voteless for 1 day.

We can brainstorm that name, call it "Vote Blocker" or something.

 

[heymonkey]

It's not about who sent the command earlier in the night phase.

If the RB targeted the Jailer, and the Jailer targeted someone else, the Jailer can't act.
If the Jailer targeted the RB, and the RB targeted someone else, the RB can't act.

So you track it backwards. Okay.

 

[Pedro]

Let me know when you changed Harold's items

 

[heymonkey]

Done. I didn't take all of them, only some, and now all are individual. Do you think it should stay random or should the inventor get the pool of items?

 

[Pedro]

Okay! This how I imagine these prizes: some are active and some are passive.

Passive
Bulletproof vest
Lightning rod, automatically used once the player receives the prize
Gif posting, same as above
Memory, same as above

Active
Lie detector, player can choose when to use it
Cop, same as above
Parrot, same as above

Does this match your interpretation?

 

[heymonkey]

Yes, though I'd specify that the gif posting be for the next day phase, obviously.

 

[heymonkey]

Question re: vest - since saying nothing kinda makes the game bastard, should it actually be a chance to work or fail?

 

[Pedro]

Yay! The Parrot can:

Kill Ruby during the night, if she fused with Sapphire and the latter died; (unlikely)
Protect Pearl;
Kill Sugilite during the night;
Jail Lapis Lazuli;
Give Harold a prize (would that decrease his pool, giving an extra prize away?);
Do a silly cop check on Ronaldo;
Roleblock Jasper;
Do a role cop check on Aquamarine.

I think it's fine to let the Inventor choose which items to give. Can he give two items to two different people in the same night?

 

[Pedro]

Question re: vest - since saying nothing kinda makes the game bastard, should it actually be a chance to work or fail?

Hm, you're right. Specifying for both the Inventor and the targeted player that it has a 50% chance to work would be fairer.

 

[heymonkey]

I think it's fine to let the Inventor choose which items to give. Can he give two items to two different people in the same night?

I would say it has to be two different people if it's two in a night.

Hm, you're right. Specifying for both the Inventor and the targeted player that it has a 50% chance to work would be fairer.

Maybe even just something in the description about it looking old and maybe not very dependable....

 

[Pedro]

I'm cool with both, flavor can make the vest look faulty ^^

 

[Pedro]

I think if the Parrot targets the Inventor, and ends up giving an item from the Inventor to the Inventor, it just goes back to the prize pool aka nothing happens.

 

[Pedro]

Now let me see what's the deal with Aquamarine. These are the results that she can receive:

Party Host
Gem lover (unreliable info, unique role)
Gem lover (unreliable info, unique role)
Gladiator
Gem doctor (she can guess what this thing does)
Commuter (unreliable info, doesn't mention the "Odd-night" modifier)
Vigilante
Fusion (unreliable info, unique role)
Jailer
Random Redirect
Inventor
Lover
Lover
Flavor cop (unreliable info, the role name is a lie)
Named townie
Named townie
Named townie


Hm, I'm okay with her having 3-shots; it's not OP.

 

[Pedro]

I think we took care of all the roles in the design. Is there any other you would like to change?

 

[heymonkey]

I think if the Parrot targets the Inventor, and ends up giving an item from the Inventor to the Inventor, it just goes back to the prize pool aka nothing happens.

I like that. Agreed.

Nothing else I want to change. I like it.

 

[heymonkey]

@Fireblend we did some work!

 

[Fireblend]

I noticed! Looking over it :D

 

[Fireblend]

Ok. Really happy with the role and flavor distribution, pretty good job on that :P

I think the scum count is ok as it is. Adding a fifth scum team member even if it's a goon would probably be overkill if we're worried about town being too powerful, and Monkey's right that town does have some negative utility roles. Plus the unlimited roleblock can be pretty powerful if paired with the NK.

I'm worried about the "fake" BP vest. Isn't that technically bastard-ish, because it means lying about mechanics to a player? I'm ok with increasing the complexity of the game or adding unusual roles, but I dunno if that means we have to advertise the game as being just a tiny bit bastard :P

 

[Pedro]

If she makes it clear through the flavor that it might not work it wouldn't be a lie, just RNG

 

[heymonkey]

Yeah, I think that's something that can be handled in flavor. I definitely don't want to just straight up lie to people.

 

[heymonkey]

Febe, Pedrolie wouldn't let me put in even a single not-even-all-day haiku restriction. Isn't he mean?

 

[Pedro]

I'm not mean!

 

[Fireblend]

He's not. I've been both a haiku giver and receiver, and it's not nice. It harvests resentment and hatred :(

Jk it was OK when I did it to cabot.

 

[heymonkey]

SEE, IT COULD BE CABOT.
anwyay it was only five :(

 

[Pedro]

Anything else anyone would like to point out?

 

[heymonkey]

I'm happy with it. :)