Scooby Doo 2: Mafia Unleashed - This time there are costumes!

[Lightning Strikes]

What if we didn't pass judgment on what other people do with their time and their bodies and left it at that.

Judgment implies I know anything about pazzo which I don't.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

What if we didn't pass judgment on what other people do with their time and their bodies and left it at that.

Like I'm a natural worrier.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

I

What if we didn't pass judgment on what other people do with their time and their bodies and left it at that.

mean no offense to pazzo.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

What if we didn't pass judgment on what other people do with their time and their bodies and left it at that.

I'm sorry I said something wrong.

I did not mean this in bad way.

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

Your good man. I’m in the middle of getting another job so I can’t get high and people who I suspect are not in this game anymore are subjecting me to the ENTIRE KINGDOM GEARTS SERIES and I can’t face it sober. Why am I playing chain of memories Jesus help me

 

[Lightning Strikes]

What if we didn't pass judgment on what other people do with their time and their bodies and left it at that.

Like I did not mean to say I think pazzo doing bad thing.

I am inexperienced in these matters

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Your good man. I’m in the middle of getting another job so I can’t get high and people who I suspect are not in this game anymore are subjecting me to the ENTIRE KINGDOM GEARTS SERIES and I can’t face it sober. Why am I playing chain of memories Jesus help me

I'm so sorry Pazzo I feel like shit


I know nothing about drinking please excuse my ignorance i hate making people feel bad.

 

[San Franpsycho]

It's cool, man, I'm just pointing out that that could be a bad road.

You followed my post with a Kook vote - talk to me.

 

[Snow Ghost]

I’m drunk but provide the specifics. Counter what I’m saying with specific statements not generic statements. What specifically was the meat of the argument I avoided? What did Tech do in regards to Ghost Bear that wasn’t done in regards to Char? You’re using vague statements can it can’t tell if you’re just dancing around what I’m saying or if I’m too drunk to follow your short hand

Stan went about disproving Char being the N1 gossip target in two ways.

1) Tech chatted with Ghost Bear N1, thus Char is lying.
2) Tech never defended Char, whom he supposedly chatted with, thus Char is lying.

Individually both of these, if believed in, call Char's N1 gossip claim into question. Not believing in one does not mean that the other can be ignored. Individual judgements must be made of both individual theories. You did not do that. You went against the first theory and ignored the second. The first theory is also much weaker than the second theory is. Your choice to vouch for Char's continued survival was based on incomplete analysis and I wonder if it was done on purpose.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

I Hate my self so Fucking much why cant I talk to people like a normal person.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Let it go man, don't spiral. Just take a deep breath, get up and literally shake it off, and focus your brain elsewhere. No one's perfect, but we gotta dust off and get back to whatever else.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

I don't mean to say the wrong thing like this if you could see my brain I'm q good person but I just cant talk to people I'm sorry.

I really did not mean ot in a bad way I promise

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Let it go man, don't spiral. Just take a deep breath, get up and literally shake it off, and focus your brain elsewhere. No one's perfect, but we gotta dust off and get back to whatever else.

I cant I could have hurt Pazzo feelings.

Now I'm ruining the game by distracting everyone I'm so fucking shitty.

 

[San Franpsycho]

You can and I promise Pazzo is fine. He's just playing Kingdom Hearts and cussing about it (as usual).
Deep breath, shake it off. I'm serious. Moving when you start to spiral helps.

 

[Snow Ghost]

i mean playing kingdom hearts yeah

id drink so much that i would pass out, that seems like the better alternative

 

[San Franpsycho]

Snow G, tell me what you think of my wacky Kook theory while I respond to some other things?

 

[San Franpsycho]

I'm trying to work out the best way to get across the point that at this point I'm finding myself somewhat suspicious of Lightning.
I figure the best way is just to say it: I am suspicious of Lightning.




The stupid thing is, this is probably what made the light switch flip after seeing Char's flip.
Honest mistake is an explanation for the claim weirdness.

But what if they were teammates?

Char's fake claim was "I have to think about people's names" so he literally chose people he was thinking about.
Lightning isn't one of them.
If Lightning isn't Jman he knows it's a lie. If Lightning is Jman, he's been referring to him as that in scum chat and game both.
Maybe he didn't blank on him for claim purposes in spite of all the times his name had been used, maybe he blanked on him because of them. He skipped the one he knew.

I erred town on him before despite feeling uneasy about the push to mask off, because of the way his posts felt. Reactive. Interactive. Sincere. But the uneasiness never quite shifted, and considering how awful my early reads were re-evaluating them isn't going to do any harm.

Lightning's first posts in the thread were pushes to mass claim, and our other known scum members have also baited identity discussion.

His defense of himself following Boo's rather weak vote on him was hostile and overblown (I still agree with the actual reasoning mind you, and need to revisit Boo myself).

Definitive statements about Ghost Bear being a wrong vote. Certainty expressed without reasoning.
Similar definitive statements about Snacks check that even if it was wrong Town were never going to vote him out.

THAT whole end of day claim thing. I'm admittedly loathed to even go near that.

The "has anyone claimed" post and the attempt to follow it up when nobody answered. The whole "do you really think I'd do this if I were scum" which I feel like I've seen more than once.

And then his reads. I don't actually think he's given any.
Yesterday he actively refused to give reads outside Woodsman.
If he were town he should want to share. To see what other people think. To convince people. To hunt. To ensure his reads don't die with him. If he feels like he's on to something, that should be a risk a town version of him should feel more aware of.

He went in on Boo for not pushing his vote more convincingly, but hasn't actually done the same himself, for anyone. If anything he did the opposite, pushing against voting out Char.
I don't feel like I've seen him push anything since Boo on D1. He gestures, he votes, he called out nobody following him on a vote on one of the Snows at one point, but he didn't actually explain or push or work things through. He just backed off and went elsewhere.

It doesn't sit right with me.
It doesn't feel right.

I think all of this is pretty accurate, though I think there have been reads. But it's hard to ignore meta when he admitted his own identity and what you describe seems NAI. I come back to interactions and I can't imagine that level of fakery. It happens. But... I just don't see it here.

I don't think this is a bad argument - like I get the logic of it and nod along - but contextually I can't agree, if that makes sense?

 

[San Franpsycho]

We just had a game where Scum used their night kill on one of their own for Town cred, so there's really no limit for the busing meta. Snack was shot right after outing Scum while Stan is still alive.
To be clear, I don't think Stan is Scum at this point, but I wouldn't dismiss it entirely.

Pointing out this also underscores the precedent for hardbussing around here...

 

[San Franpsycho]

Yeah i agree woodsman has looked better as time has gone on.

I do not agree with this now. I think it was easy to give credit for the back-and-forth with Snow C, but in the end, it's just reactive, and any thought has to be gotten from Woodsman rather than thoughts just given. And like, okay, sure, some people play things close to the chest. But I don't think that's what's happening, because as soon as the questions stopped, so did the engagement. Maybe we'll see more soon, but... time's ticking. Everyone should have some scope of the game they can offer so far. We're too far into this at this point.

It also occurs to me that with Char's role, he was probably the best candidate to BE bussed, right? And then through that lens, Woodsman's focus only there looks even worse.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Day 1 Gnome interactions

Up until post #291 Gnome has interactions with several players this is all shitposting though.

Post #291 - first meaningful post in the game
- didn't like post #200 from Wax
- Kook feels natural
- asked Sans what they didn't like about one of my posts

Posts #304 and #307 - response to my post #302 in regards to the no vote talk on day 1

#347 - confused by one of Wax Phantom's posts

#362 - Agrees with Stan that Wax is cosplaying

Follows up on this in #373 and #374

#410 - agrees with Sans' post #407

#416 - respond/jokes with Sans about Wax cosplay being bad

#435 - accuses Wax of being FateShirou
#438 - continues with Fate = Wax

#501 to #516 - Lots of posts here so I'll collect them all together

- Fake Sparks/Wax is maybe town (#504)
- Agrees with Woodsman post #503 about no vote being a bad idea (#505)
- Likes Anthos vote (#516)
Bunch of other posts here but they're by and large meaningless IMO

#570 - asks what the case on BooBeard is, likes Anthos vote, CGG vote is a 'trap

#577 - votes Anthos

#578 - Defends CGG

#606 - doesn't think BooBear is scum
#608 - reiterates ^

Big gap between posts here

#779 - responds to Baba's post #774 (baba accused Sans of ignoring the situation with Boo) asks Baba if they think Boo and Sans are teammates

#783 - claims Boo Beard vote is pure.

#799 - Defends Sans

#801 and 803 - Defends CGG

#874 - claims Stan's posts 811 and 815 are posturing.

#980 - doesn't believe Boo is scum, claims my defence of Boo is being played up, 'Pazzo, Sans, Snack, Techni, Kook, and Cat Creat are probably who I feel the best about at the moment' scum here?, votes Stan.

#1027 - claims Boo votes on Day 1 are likely pure town (second time this has occurred)

#1153 - moved vote to Hyde

#1266 - unvoted

#1295 - voted Lightning based on little to nothing

#1380 - claims Lightning was being weird about the Ghost Bear vote as reasoning for voting there

#1403 - falsely claims dog cop

#1404 - claims Snack is lying about red check

#1435 - claims Sans switched them

That's about it in terms of meaningful posts

So looking at this and CGG's posts I'm again struck by the fact that Gnome largely ignored the existence of Pazzo. Their only interaction was a joke post on day 1 (#168). However, Gnome listed Pazzo twice on their lists of players they felt good about. (#309 and #980).


I checked for the sake of fairness. In #861 Pazzo lists Gnome as a town lean. At that point they had only a single interaction on day 1. Pazzo did later vote Gnome (#1445)

Pazzo makes a minor defence of Char (#1261)

So here it is. Gnome listed Pazzo, Sans, and Kook as players they thought were town in post #980 (at least one of these must be Scum surely), both Gnome and CGG has remarkably little interaction with Pazzo throughout the entire game and Pazzo both listed Gnome as a town lean and defended CGG in various points of the game.

Now I appreciate I've been lazy as shit in this game and I'm probably totally misinterpreting what I've seen here. If I'm wrong I'm sorry.

Vote:Pazzo the Ghost Clown

I dunno. Mafia make reads lists based on the air in the room. Early on, Pazzo seemed to just have general good will. I don't really see anything wrong with this argument but also it just doesn't do much for me. I think Pazzo was pretty involved early on and then dropped off a lot in general and that probably impacts his interactions in general. He's more active today, though dead wrong a lot, smh.

But as for interactions, whenever I see this kind of analysis, I wonder... what happens if we adjust it? what do Pazzo's interactions look like with you? With... idk, Neon Phantom? Pick anyone, but my guess is that this stuff can be meaninggful or also meaningless. Did Gnome talk to or about everyone? Does everyone talk to everyone? I feel reasonably good about Stan but I'm not sure we've had more than a couple direct interactions, if that.

But please keep doing things.

 

[San Franpsycho]

and with that I go to bed.

 

[Snow Ghost]

Snow G, tell me what you think of my wacky Kook theory while I respond to some other things?

There's too much town here for one:

Gonna throw out another updated reads list, best feeling at top but in general I don't feel bad about very many people :

Wax Phantom - Confirmed town mason
Boo Beard - still affected by my perception of end of Day 1 stuff, I need to take a closer look at these 2 but for now I still feel okay about them
Alien - same as above
Stealin Stan - Created the theory that led to people questioning Char Gar more and ultimately helping with the flip of scum
Skunkbeard - Feels pretty dang town, I felt kind of iffy on Skunk originally but I've felt a lot better on her the past day or so
Lightning - Still somewhat concerned that he's the arsonist (and I always will be) but his play beyond that has been fairly towny and he had a vote on Char EoD2 that felt pretty towny. Floating the idea to let Char live was kind of weird, but would be weirder for scum to propose unless they were on verge of victory
Neon Phantom - Feels like there's been genuine scumhunting here as well
Snow Creature - Has some bold theories that feel like a lot of thought went into them. I don't think the logic in all of the theories is quite connecting with me, but I feel like I'm seeing genuine scumhunting
Snow Ghost - Slightly town leaning here
Pazzo - Feels town but the posts surrounding San could be mafia trying to point us at someone that there's friction around already
San - Overall play feels pretty towny. The confrontations with other players have had me wondering if some are manufactured in an attempt to cover up scum relationships, and I'm sure OMGUS is partially coloring my perception on why I bumped her down slightly
Woodsman - The case has been laid out quite a bit already but as I mentioned before a lot of the play feels overly calculated. Feels a little scummy

So my big reads list is really just I'm suspicious of San and Pazzo, and scum reading Woodsman at the moment. I'm heading off to bed, so I'll expand on these in the morning as they're admittedly rather short and lacking details, but I wanted to have something out there for now

We are missing three plus one and she has the targets down to three people. The list also at least indirectly includes the option that both you and Pazzo are scum, what wouldn't be the first thing that I'd argue for. This list is not realistic. Town mistake, scum mistake, or scum wanting to keep their options open so that they can mold the reads based on where town ends up going. Or is it the inoffensive sideline stance, the one that is a helpful defense to use when the push comes to shove: "but I do/did not scum read any of them!"

The reads on their own aren't that strong either. Rehashing D1 as the sole basis for both Boo and Alien and lot of feels and perceived genuine scumhunting without given examples is lazy. It is D5, there should be more. I'm looking forward to that expanded edition.

Scum Arsonist? I just don't see it existing from a mechanical POV. Absolutely too many extra kills in a vanilla-seeming game like this. The Arsonist should be an independent entity and the way you word your argument makes it seem like Kook could perhaps be it. All it needs is a good player behind the mask that happened to make the correct reads. The chance is certainly less than 50%, but it is not unthinkable. Scum Kook is likely the simpler idea though. I'll have to do a deep Kook read too then, the "How clairvoyant was Kook?" argument is something that I did not explore yet.

 

[Snow Creature]

I've just woken up so sorry if my replies are incoherent lol

Gnome jumping on that wagon with so little explanation makes it more likely the wagon was started and encouraged by town players rather than gnome’s own teammates.

I see what you're saying, the Sans part is the more out there part of the theory, but if scum DID plan the Hyde push, it makes sense.

I need to go look at the vote breakdown for D2 with the actual movement as it developed, because that’s the bit that seems the most potentially damning in your case. The back half is a lot of WIFOM and depends a lot more on playstyle and circumstance. The entire point of bussing is to be prepared to bury your teammate at just the right moment where you then get to go “look I was on them all game! I helped vote them out too!” There’s no payoff if you bus and then just..stop right when they’re actually about to die lol

To this part, then why didn't Woodsman vote anyone then? Look at their D3 and 4 voting - how do you explain that?

How does today’s start from Sans line up with this? I’m hard pressed to see them as scum together because it would mean mafia’s plan upon losing two of their members back to back was to...make it back to back to back? Lol Unless you think Sans really had no intention of pushing the case further.

I'll have to go back and reread Sans day start post because I remember liking it. It's not impossible for them to be team mates. Snow Ghost made a good point before about how we can't count Stan out as scum because they could have bussed Char. Woodsman then follows up by saying we just saw this in Transistor. But in that game, scum had lost two and a third was looking likely to be next. Sound familiar? If anyone is a day-start bus it's Sans on Woodsman. But like I said, I need to revisit to be sure. And I'm not saying they planned D3 and 4 - I don't know how or why they would.

I do not agree with this now. I think it was easy to give credit for the back-and-forth with Snow C, but in the end, it's just reactive, and any thought has to be gotten from Woodsman rather than thoughts just given. And like, okay, sure, some people play things close to the chest. But I don't think that's what's happening, because as soon as the questions stopped, so did the engagement. Maybe we'll see more soon, but... time's ticking. Everyone should have some scope of the game they can offer so far. We're too far into this at this point.

It also occurs to me that with Char's role, he was probably the best candidate to BE bussed, right? And then through that lens, Woodsman's focus only there looks even worse.

Yeah, I need to relook at Woodsman's answers, but have they added anything? Given the chance to expand did they? I have more questions when they reappear.

 

[Woodsman]

Fair enough. So what did you make of Lightning on a reread then?

I didn't like it when he claimed his identity in his first post and stating that secrecy around it would only benefit Scum. He later even amended that statement in the exact opposite direction. His vote on D2 is really strange.

Woodsman has had his name thrown out for a couple of days now and seems completely chill.

It's very concerning does not feel like natural innocent town getting falsely accused.

There very tactically hanging back hoping the focus on them disappears.

This is a strange post to me. What is the appropriate reaction of a natural innocent town getting falsely accused?

I am being 100% serious hear.

What if we consider letting CCG live for a day or 2 and used our time to hunt other targets?

This is also not a good look, now that we know CGGs flip.

He doesn't give a lot of reasons for his reads as well and it looks like he just follows where others are going.
I really don't know what to make of him. It all feels just a bit too obviously scummy.

I've just woken up so sorry if my replies are incoherent lol


I see what you're saying, the Sans part is the more out there part of the theory, but if scum DID plan the Hyde push, it makes sense.


To this part, then why didn't Woodsman vote anyone then? Look at their D3 and 4 voting - how do you explain that?


I'll have to go back and reread Sans day start post because I remember liking it. It's not impossible for them to be team mates. Snow Ghost made a good point before about how we can't count Stan out as scum because they could have bussed Char. Woodsman then follows up by saying we just saw this in Transistor. But in that game, scum had lost two and a third was looking likely to be next. Sound familiar? If anyone is a day-start bus it's Sans on Woodsman. But like I said, I need to revisit to be sure. And I'm not saying they planned D3 and 4 - I don't know how or why they would.


Yeah, I need to relook at Woodsman's answers, but have they added anything? Given the chance to expand did they? I have more questions when they reappear.

D3 was going to be Gnome anyway. What's the point of voting a different wagon in that scenario? It's purely performative and serves no purpose. Similar for D4. After the bungled fake claim, there was no doubt that Char would be the vote of the day.

 

[Snow Creature]

I didn't like it when he claimed his identity in his first post and stating that secrecy around it would only benefit Scum. He later even amended that statement in the exact opposite direction. His vote on D2 is really strange.

Tell me more about what you think of the D2 vote?

This is a strange post to me. What is the appropriate reaction of a natural innocent town getting falsely accused?

This is a fair point but one Sans raised already. Which I feel you do a lot, just reiterate what others have said before. And it doesn't help it comes from Sans, so that feeds into my theory.

D3 was going to be Gnome anyway. What's the point of voting a different wagon in that scenario? It's purely performative and serves no purpose. Similar for D4. After the bungled fake claim, there was no doubt that Char would be the vote of the day.

But if you're town, your strongest power is your vote. If you're town and you want to help solve the game, why wouldn't you want to put that information out there. That's part of my case against you - up until today, you seemed real cagey about saying anything other than your Char sus.

If I came into today and dropped a no vote, I'd be torn to shreds. That is incredibly anti-town.

But that's what you did effectively, just without making it official. If I no voted today, how would you react?

 

[Woodsman]

Tell me more about what you think of the D2 vote?

Lightnings D2 vote comes much closer to a "no vote" than me not voting on D3 and 4. While the result was pretty clear in the end, there were alternative wagons and it wasn't set in stone at all, but he still decided to stay out of it.

This is a fair point but one Sans raised already. Which I feel you do a lot, just reiterate what others have said before. And it doesn't help it comes from Sans, so that feeds into my theory.

I'm also often not around when most things happen, so I can only comment when a lot has already been said.

But if you're town, your strongest power is your vote. If you're town and you want to help solve the game, why wouldn't you want to put that information out there. That's part of my case against you - up until today, you seemed real cagey about saying anything other than your Char sus.

If I came into today and dropped a no vote, I'd be torn to shreds. That is incredibly anti-town.

But that's what you did effectively, just without making it official. If I no voted today, how would you react?

This is just completely misconstruing the situation. I did not put down a "no vote". What good is a vote on a player where it is 100% clear the wagon will not be happening? D3 we had a red check even if it was a gambit, so any vote outside that wagon would just be performative. Similar for D4: After the failed fake claim there was no doubt who would be voted out. What does my vote on Char accomplish in that scenario? At best it just means the turbo happens a bit earlier.

Now today is a completely different story. Everything is open, so somebody not voting today would be a mistake.

 

[The Ghost of Stealin Stan]

so as far as i understand it, san fran's space kook theory is still based on connections to flipped scum, but now the idea is that as the arsonist she deduced who scum were, used it to make her reads, but then backed off from them because she wanted to work with them? imo that is far fetched. the connections argument is sound but it points way more in the direction of mafia.

the ghost bear thing was a pretty big element of my theory, tbh, because techno had to have gossiped with a dead player n1 or char gar would have had to worry about a counter claim. so, i think it's reasonable for pazzo to have attacked that aspect of it. that said, frankenstein was an option too.

i am always drunk when i post but no one can tell b/c i never mention it

 

[Snow Ghost]

Everything is open, so somebody not voting today would be a mistake.

You not having one down certainly diminishes your message, no? Snow C or Lightning?

the ghost bear thing was a pretty big element of my theory, tbh, because techno had to have gossiped with a dead player n1 or char gar would have had to worry about a counter claim. so, i think it's reasonable for pazzo to have attacked that aspect of it. that said, frankenstein was an option too.

I don't think Char cared about counters. He just went for it. He sees Baba's post and knows his days are numbered after he has done nothing but tunneled a mason for two days.

I don't fault Pazzo or anyone else attacking that part of the argument, I attacked it too. My point is that your case worked just fine without us knowing who Tech chatted with N1. It did not matter that there was no counter to Char, because something could've happened to Tech or to his target. What mattered was that when Tech certainly was there and able, he did not defend his supposed green check. We could see that Tech's actions did not support the idea that he chatted with Char and this is the part that Pazzo did not touch.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Speaking of votes and the lack of them… my Hyde vote keeps getting brought up and I want to talk about it. People use votes differently. Some people sit on them like they’re good. I don’t. I use mine as a tool. Votes are not precious to me. I vote to try to get people to react, to move, to talk, and sometimes I just vote my reads and sit like a vulture. It’s situational. But the Hyde vote got Hyde to talk and that was the purpose. I don’t understand why that’s controversial. It was a specific play, announced as a specific play, and it worked.

Some people don’t do that. That’s fine. It’s not how I play and sometimes it drives me nuts when people refuse to vote until end of day, but if I scumread that I would have to scumread just about everyone.

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

Speaking of votes and the lack of them… my Hyde vote keeps getting brought up and I want to talk about it. People use votes differently. Some people sit on them like they’re good. I don’t. I use mine as a tool. Votes are not precious to me. I vote to try to get people to react, to move, to talk, and sometimes I just vote my reads and sit like a vulture. It’s situational. But the Hyde vote got Hyde to talk and that was the purpose. I don’t understand why that’s controversial. It was a specific play, announced as a specific play, and it worked.

Some people don’t do that. That’s fine. It’s not how I play and sometimes it drives me nuts when people refuse to vote until end of day, but if I scumread that I would have to scumread just about everyone.

I'm awake and at the computer now, so I'm going to expand on the reads list I created earlier but it's interesting to see one side accuse me of 'godreading' to bus scummates and the other side just saying that my reads are bad.

 

[San Franpsycho]

so as far as i understand it, san fran's space kook theory is still based on connections to flipped scum, but now the idea is that as the arsonist she deduced who scum were, used it to make her reads, but then backed off from them because she wanted to work with them? imo that is far fetched. the connections argument is sound but it points way more in the direction of mafia.

It's more that I see either:
a) mafia voting mafia (yes, the easier deduction), or
b) someone who, if not mafia, is clearly doing some solving work that isn't appearing in the thread at all.... so where is it and why is it happening? Which would point then to arsonist to me.

 

[San Franpsycho]

I'm awake and at the computer now, so I'm going to expand on the reads list I created earlier but it's interesting to see one side accuse me of 'godreading' to bus scummates and the other side just saying that my reads are bad.

I don't think anyone can deny that your votes were relatively on point. What I want to know is how you got there cause we sure didn't see the process.

 

[San Franpsycho]

I'm also really surprised that so little happened between when I went to bed and when I came back.

 

[BooBeard]

Sorry for not posting as much as I'd like, my life is a disaster right now. I'm locked into my apartment because my front door broke, I've been dealing with the landlord and potential locksmith. I'm still feeling under the weather and work is killing me. Mental health is not good. At least I work from home so I can still work.

The spreadsheet seems to be updated with the latest votes, and four votes remain unplaced. There's less than 6 hours left today but I expect some vote movement still. @Wax Phantom, @Spooky Space Kook, @Neon Phantom, @Woodsman any plans to vote?

 

[Snow Creature]

Yeesh, why did I make myself reread today. Everyone's brought out the big posts on D5 (I can't talk at all though lol)

This is just completely misconstruing the situation. I did not put down a "no vote". What good is a vote on a player where it is 100% clear the wagon will not be happening? D3 we had a red check even if it was a gambit, so any vote outside that wagon would just be performative. Similar for D4: After the failed fake claim there was no doubt who would be voted out. What does my vote on Char accomplish in that scenario? At best it just means the turbo happens a bit earlier.

Now today is a completely different story. Everything is open, so somebody not voting today would be a mistake.

I guess we just have different ideas then, because I cannot wrap my head around town not voting, even if it is pointless. I don't think a vote is ever truly pointless.

Like not laying down a vote is just anti-town to me.

 

[Snow Creature]

I'm also really surprised that so little happened between when I went to bed and when I came back.

Since you're around, you mentioned town reading Neon at one point. Any specific reason?

 

[Woodsman]

Time for a reread of Snow Creature:

D1:
Not all that much to see here. There is a little defending of Char:

Also want to say in favour of Char, they were the first one to try to get people to talk serious, put down some reads and actual effort.

That seems town to me, scum would want to hide in the shitposting for longer.

What stood out to me a bit is his read on Skunkbeard:

It's not that I don't see a reason, just I don't see a reason on anyone else. I've already said why I wouldn't go Boo or Alien, and Skunbeard's shtick seemed too weird for scum right now.

He points to the "shtick" as being weird for scum, when I didn't even realize there was a shtick about them. Several others asked what that shtick was as well, so it certainly wasn't that obvious.

D2:
More Skunk discussion:

I still haven't decided either way for Skunk. Yesterday, reading their posts, they put themselves out there as an island early on. Early vote on Anthos and kept pushing it, RPing as a pirate. It just felt too in your face to be scummy. But Technicolor also raises a great point when they say it could be Skunk just letting it ride and sliding through easy. So I'm really not sure. A plus for them today is they've voted Ghost Bear which I'm feeling too.

Okay @Neon Phantom here's what I was thinking about Skunkbeard yesterday.

The "schtick" I mentioned was the whole pirate deal. They made an early unexplained vote on Anthos and later asked for people to "join their crew" on the vote.



And there was another point they pushed Anthos too:


There wasn't as much as I remember, but I wrote them off because I thought it was so blatant and out there that it wasn't scummy. The random vote without an explanation, the blatant flag-waving for the Anthos train - there was no subtlety. Of course, that doesn't mean much, but it was enough to lead me away from it.

And this post today makes me feel good about them just because it reads as frustrated townie:


They're not a hard town read, but I'd need some real convincing to vote there right now.

Here he's throwing slight doubt at the Ghost Bear train, when nearing EoD:

I'm here for day end!

Do we read anything into the fact that no one seems to be pushing against the Ghost Bear vote? I know a few alternate trains have popped up, but the GB vote seems to be going through without much resistance.

However when new wagons are forming he starts questioning Char specifically and eventually dismisses his previous concern.

Well... Can't argue with that lol. Fair enough.

Have I missed when people pointed out what Char did to get votes? Any specific evidence?

Eh, I could see scum laying back hoping another train gains steam.

In his last post of D2 he again singles out Skunk:

I can be here for this one post then I'm off to bed.

I have a list of people I want to do a reread for tomorrow since I think there has to be scum in some of the mid-level posters. That being: Stan, Kook, Baba, Gnome, Neon, and Woodsman.

Skunk doesn't look great for the reasons Boo said, but with so little to go on, it's hard to tell. I'll try to articulate those thoughts tomorrow.


Thanks for that Baba, I had a look and I'll mull over it. I'm worried Sans is pulling the wool over our eyes as well, but I'll have to do my own reread.

What I want is for Skunk to give us something. I know your post said you were struggling, but @Captain Skunkbeard it'd be great if you could give some reads and your thoughts on the game.

And @Char Gar Gothakon yesterday you said your only read was Wax. With the mason reveal, do you still feel this way? Ready to give any other reads yet?

With that, I'll see you all tomorrow.

Nothing really noteworthy on D3

D4:
He immediately congratulates Stan on his Scum read of Char and totally had the same thought but didn't write it down.

Wow, great work Stan. That's a super compelling argument. I'm gonna let that ruminate but I like your logic. I tried throwing the idea around in my own head but didn't get anywhere with it, so I'm glad someone did.

And god knows what happened with Snack. Won't complain about getting scum though.

But later again just a slight defense of Char, maybe to keep this option open:

Also just want to pick up on this discussion.


It's a valid point; if we go CGG then that's two days in a row where we don't get a whole lot.

But, if you're JMan - and this is a bit meta - why do you not want to get rid of a neutral now vs you being adamant about it in the last mafia game? Especially since this could potentially be a very similar situation with an arsonist.

I would also maybe view voting out a neutral not so much as anti-scum hunting but more pro-town surviving, if that makes sense. It's still a net gain.


And just remind me again, who are your primary reads? Have you not got a vote on one of them to put pressure on?

All in all I can't say this leaves me with a super good feeling. The Char defense is subtle, but it's certainly there. There's also a surprising amount of waffling about Skunkbeards alignment. At first he Town reads him for a shtick that only he even notices, later he wants to put pressure on him for several days but never actually really does it. In the end he again ends up Town reading him after the replacement.
Why is Skunks shtick a Town tell? What did you think of Cat or Wax at that point? Their "shtick" was much more noticeable. What about new Skunk feels Towny? Also what is your read of Skunk now? I'll have to reread Skunk after this.

might as well put my vote down here for now:
vote: Snow Creature

 

[Snow Creature]

Sorry for not posting as much as I'd like, my life is a disaster right now. I'm locked into my apartment because my front door broke, I've been dealing with the landlord and potential locksmith. I'm still feeling under the weather and work is killing me. Mental health is not good. At least I work from home so I can still work.

The spreadsheet seems to be updated with the latest votes, and four votes remain unplaced. There's less than 6 hours left today but I expect some vote movement still. @Wax Phantom, @Spooky Space Kook, @Neon Phantom, @Woodsman any plans to vote?

And Boo, I hope everything picks up for you!

If you have the time, you said Kook looks worse after the Char flip. Can you explain your reasoning? I don't remember you going too in depth with it.

 

[Snow Creature]

Words.

I appreciate the post, even if it is against me. For a low poster, I like we're seeing more engagement now.

On new Skunk, I thought they came in with some really solid points. I would have to do an ISO to pick out specific posts, but in short, I liked their way of breaking down the logic, questioning reads, and thinking deeper about points. I believe I had them on my town list earlier. Old Skunk was hard to read as they were quite inactive.

And maybe schtick was an odd word, but they were going for a whole pirate thing on D1. D1 reads are always weird and I'll admit I took some time finding my footing.

if you're scum reading me, where would you look for the next scum? Who do you think is linked with me?

 

[San Franpsycho]

Since you're around, you mentioned town reading Neon at one point. Any specific reason?

Neon's posts?

Not to be sarcastic, but I read through Neon's posts and I see solving and an apparent lack of calculation, despite having a terrible feeling I should not trust the likely player at all based on history (:P). (That's a joke, btw.) There are occasionally some things I don't agree with, but when I read Neon's post... I just get a sense of someone legitimately solving and trying to work through the game. Not a super loud person but always thoughtful. I've felt that way since like day 2 or so. I mentioned at the time that when Neon got going, I got big town vibes.

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

I am alive. @Lightning Strikes How mad are you at PG right now?

Okay, so re: Kook, here's where I was between phases when I was reading back. This really kept coming back to me. The way Snow G puts it together feels overwrought. My first thought was to dismiss it - I was pretty focused on that d2 thing with Char. But then I started thinking: what has Kook done? Where's focus been?


Way back in this post (it's done as a quote so I can't quote it, just go look), Kook puts up an early read list. It's good early activity, pretty meaty appearing. Well, it's the first time Kook ever so much as mentioned Gnome. He and Woodsman are in the bottom part of the readlist - Gnome actually higher if they're ordered, btw - but the post focuses only on Woodsman and Baba, not Gnome. Baba gets the most detail.

This was right before the red check, so it was D3 before Kook ever so much as mentioned Gnome. Not ONE word, not one quote, nothing at all, but Geno had gone up in her readslist somehow after voting him the day before.

So at this point, Kook has gone after Geno (mafia) in the softest way possible, was now on Gnome (mafia) with zero case, and had Woodsman (pretty sure is mafia) down far on the list as scum.

So Kook is either the god reader who is god reading without doing a single bit of work in the thread or there's something else afoot (like doing all your work and strategizing away from the thread because you have something to hide). Because while she had all these... she didn't pursue any of them, and still isn't. Where is she on Woodsman? Nowhere; she's talking about me. What changed there?

Lots, but not per Kook's reads. She's sus on me, though I was the first one to open on Woodsman today, her biggest scumread, but in her read of me, she just says I'm towny and she might have some OMGUS... but then I'm highlighted at the bottom of the post. Why?

Here's the tl;dr:

I really don't think Kook is town. I was pretty convinced that she was mafia and then moreso when I started to look at the Gnome stuff - I though oh, she was prepping a soft bus, just like on Char, but then the red happened. It just felt - much like Woodsman - too perfect. That record is too good. But that post from Snow G kept coming back up in my head. What has Kook done outside of this?

Honestly... nothing. But there was a fair amount of talk about the arsonist. That's a good place for scum to hide, yeah. But it's also a good place for the scum arsonist to hide. And you know who hasn't been doused so far, apparently? Mafia. And who has one of the single best records so far at spotting mafia but not really moving on them? Kook.

I know this is maybe a little far-fetched, but slowly picking off town while town cannibalizes scum is an excellent strategy for an arsonist. It keeps things balanced and keeps everyone thrown off track.

But I'd ask folks to go back and look at what Kook has done the past two days. What do you see? Do you see solving that backs up this record?

Kook and Woodsman are my top two suspects, for similar reasons - lack of engagement that backs up their vote records. Bussing explains it. But with Kook's even better record, so might an arsonist who wants to keep things balanced but not be the kind of town leader who gets killed in the night.

I can't really disagree at all with anyone reading Kook as scum because if nothing else she hasn't exhibited anything particularly townie all game. She's one person I'd say has done a good job of blending and trying to seem inoffensive without it garnering too much attention. But the thing is the reads make it messy. Was she just prepping to bus half her team early on? To your point, you're correct that she didn't really push them hard but our two flipped scum were both explicitly included in the "I don't trust them" pile so it's a soft bus at worst of multiple teammates in a pretty small pool of given scum reads. Possible I suppose. I don't think it's very likely the arsonist is with scum, unless it's some sort of one shot ability maybe. I'm all about non-traditional game design so I guess you can never be too sure. But here's the big question to you:

You are now suggesting not only is Kook the arsonist, but she's the MAFIA arsonist... and despite pushing the "Kook is scum" angle hard yesterday you open with... a shift to Woodsman. Why? That part just sticks with me. People can say yes, no, whatever about the switch thing. I find the pivot here really concerning.

Stan went about disproving Char being the N1 gossip target in two ways.

1) Tech chatted with Ghost Bear N1, thus Char is lying.
2) Tech never defended Char, whom he supposedly chatted with, thus Char is lying.

Individually both of these, if believed in, call Char's N1 gossip claim into question. Not believing in one does not mean that the other can be ignored. Individual judgements must be made of both individual theories. You did not do that. You went against the first theory and ignored the second. The first theory is also much weaker than the second theory is. Your choice to vouch for Char's continued survival was based on incomplete analysis and I wonder if it was done on purpose.

I still don't understand the argument. Like Tech did the same for both. He says both could be worth voting for, then doesn't vote for either. Like... what lol

Ghost Bear is even less of a presence than I thought. Hardly anything besides voting for Boo. Don't want to fall into the trap of "scum wouldn't put this little effort in would they" but scum wouldn't put this little effort in would they? I'd be fine with voting him.

Oh I think I may know who San Fran is. Not that it means much.

Mason claim is believable. Wax doing the bare minimum and then ghosting is annoying but not worth voting for. Char is a viable alternative assuming he doesn't go elsewhere.

i mean playing kingdom hearts yeah

id drink so much that i would pass out, that seems like the better alternative

It's truly hell

To this part, then why didn't Woodsman vote anyone then? Look at their D3 and 4 voting - how do you explain that?

My problem with it is those votes were locked and nothing was going to change that. In fact, taking a glance - you're literally the only person that was on both of the D3 and D4 wagons. When the decision is locked, you just fall straight into the WIFOM hole. Would scum for sure want to be on their definitely getting flipped scummate for cred? Would they avoid the vote to try and not be accused of bussing? How would they avoid it - by doing a Sans and pushing a different wagon or by abstaining? I just find it hard to dredge a conclusion out of that situation because it feels like a complete toss up.

Sorry for not posting as much as I'd like, my life is a disaster right now. I'm locked into my apartment because my front door broke, I've been dealing with the landlord and potential locksmith. I'm still feeling under the weather and work is killing me. Mental health is not good. At least I work from home so I can still work.

The spreadsheet seems to be updated with the latest votes, and four votes remain unplaced. There's less than 6 hours left today but I expect some vote movement still. @Wax Phantom, @Spooky Space Kook, @Neon Phantom, @Woodsman any plans to vote?

Take care of yourself Boo. Life comes first.

 

[Snow Ghost]

I still don't understand the argument. Like Tech did the same for both. He says both could be worth voting for, then doesn't vote for either. Like... what lol

I do not understand why you don't understand it, really.

In your mind Char is town because nobody counter-claimed N1 gossip chat. Stan points out that Tech never defended Char and even considered him a good vote. This does not matter to you, why? Surely Tech would say at least something in Char's defense if Char was telling the truth, instead of that post you quoted.

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

Gonna start at the bottom and work my way up :

Woodsman - I have been scum reading him for a while now for his play feeling overly calculated. But that's a bit subjective so I'm going to pull up a few interactions here as well.

So I was rereading Gnome and came upon this post. What is up with that?

A post shading scooby snack for defending Gnome prior to the red check.

I'll have to give the situation D2 a proper reread, but it looks like Gnome was also late on the Ghost Bear vote, so there is precedent for Scum discouraging other wagons.

D3 was going to be Gnome anyway. What's the point of voting a different wagon in that scenario? It's purely performative and serves no purpose. Similar for D4. After the bungled fake claim, there was no doubt that Char would be the vote of the day.

And a couple of posts about the vote situation on Gnome and Gnome's vote on D2. I do agree with Woodsman that him not being on the D3 vote is NAI though.

But that's the the entirety of Woodsman's mentions of Gnome in the game, there were no interactions with him directly and there doesn't seem to have been much scrutiny around other people's interactions beyond the one post.

On the other side, these are Gnome's mentions of Woodsman.

This is a straight up lie

In response to " woodsman has not engaged with gnome at all. spooky space cook has not given super detailed thoughts on gnome thus far. " from scooby snack monster

Which was very much true, but could be seen as a defense of either woodsman or me.

And that's it. Gnome did not mention Woodsman in any reads or any interactions past that.

Moving on to Woodsman and Char's interactions

I was more talking about the Geno role you mentioned. What would be the benefit of the cosplay without it? A couple days of life is all well and good, but you can usually get the same result if not better by just playing normally.

Also you assumed you would roll Scum?

Not gonna lie, Char is raising some major red flags for me.

Early Day 1, Woodsman is shading Char for a cheeky comment about who CGG was hoping they would roll scum this game.

Day 2, Woodsman then started to immediately shade Char by saying that he hadn't had much of an impact so far Day 2 and that was where the suspicion was coming from.

Char hasn't had a huge impact today and I'd be open for a vote there. His push on Wax also seemed kind of strange. I guess it's a continuation of his vote from D1, but he doesn't really advocate it and it feels like he just wants to park his vote somewhere.

A while later on Day 2, Woodsman and Char have this interaction :

@Char Gar Gothakon do you have any other reads besides Wax?

Sure, I think Sans is town, she's trying to solve the game and gives her thoughts. Clown person is also somewhere up there. I don't remember the names of the rest, nothing sticks out, null for now.

No Scum leans?

Nothing sticks out other than Wax.

Yeah I find it hard to believe that you have absolutely no leans besides an unupdated D1 read.

I mean why would scum lie about that? Scum would make up some reads and give them to you, I've been busy and haven't reread to make reads I'm confident in, like I can tell you I think the whole Boo Beard thing is dumb to me and I won't vote there, but I'm not basing it on much.

Woods later follows it up with

I'm still not fully convinced by Char, but it doesn't seem like a wagon is likely to happen there. Same for Snow Creature.

If we're in the process of starting new wagons:

vote: Char Gar Gothakon

The next interaction between the 2 is at CGG's claim where Woodsman is the first one out of the gate to question the claim by pointing out that jman wasn't there :

Why didn't you check Jman?

Looking on the other side of the interactions, outside of that Day 2 interaction, Char never really mentioned woodsman at all.

Thinking about all of these interactions is what has me leaning scum on Woodsman. While Woods has not given us a reads list he has been consistently interested in voting for Char even when no one else is on the train. He doesn't really seem to have taken any hard stances on it or tried to convince people that Char was scum as much as just made a few votes that would potentially look good if Char flipped scum down the line. It feels like a tunnel born out of nothing and feels pretty bussy to me. And it still all feels calculated to the point that I'm questioning if Woodsman's questioning of CGG's role was calculated as well, but there's no way to know that till later.

Woodsman has gone a bit further since Char's flip and mentioned a few times worth looking at in the game, but it still feels odd to me.

And since I've mentioned a few times that Woodsman is my only real scum read at the moment

Vote : Woodsman

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Vote:Woodsman

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

I don't think anyone can deny that your votes were relatively on point. What I want to know is how you got there cause we sure didn't see the process.

FWIW, I have a notepad full of a copious amount of notes about the game, they're just messy as heck and take me forever to translate over into a readable state

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

i mean playing kingdom hearts yeah

id drink so much that i would pass out, that seems like the better alternative

We have people trash talking Kingdom Hearts?? How can you not love a game that has Goofy in it?

 

[Snow Creature]

Neon's posts?

Not to be sarcastic, but I read through Neon's posts and I see solving and an apparent lack of calculation, despite having a terrible feeling I should not trust the likely player at all based on history (:P). (That's a joke, btw.) There are occasionally some things I don't agree with, but when I read Neon's post... I just get a sense of someone legitimately solving and trying to work through the game. Not a super loud person but always thoughtful. I've felt that way since like day 2 or so. I mentioned at the time that when Neon got going, I got big town vibes.

Appreciated.

My problem with it is those votes were locked and nothing was going to change that. In fact, taking a glance - you're literally the only person that was on both of the D3 and D4 wagons. When the decision is locked, you just fall straight into the WIFOM hole. Would scum for sure want to be on their definitely getting flipped scummate for cred? Would they avoid the vote to try and not be accused of bussing? How would they avoid it - by doing a Sans and pushing a different wagon or by abstaining? I just find it hard to dredge a conclusion out of that situation because it feels like a complete toss up.

I guess. Argh, it just doesn't sit right with me.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

How mad are you at PG right now?

Mad? Not at all.

Sad and disappointed. Felt like Vomiting when he missed the second one.

Lightnings D2 vote comes much closer to a "no vote" than me not voting on D3 and 4.

Not true at all. Day 2 I was actively trying to save Ghost Bear and swing Votes off of him.

someone who, if not mafia, is clearly doing some solving work that isn't appearing in the thread at all.... so where is it and why is it happening? Which would point then to arsonist to me.

This makes no sense to me. If Kook was the arsonist she would just be solving like normal. She has no second chat and theres no need to hold back showing work to get reads she has no teammates that could be compromised.

 

[Snow Ghost]

We have people trash talking Kingdom Hearts?? How can you not love a game that has Goofy in it?

my vidyagames > your vidyagames andor must hate everything popular and if my things ever become popular then that is obviously because my things are actually good, unlike the rubbish that you like

am cool and like cool things

 

[Woodsman]

I appreciate the post, even if it is against me. For a low poster, I like we're seeing more engagement now.

On new Skunk, I thought they came in with some really solid points. I would have to do an ISO to pick out specific posts, but in short, I liked their way of breaking down the logic, questioning reads, and thinking deeper about points. I believe I had them on my town list earlier. Old Skunk was hard to read as they were quite inactive.

And maybe schtick was an odd word, but they were going for a whole pirate thing on D1. D1 reads are always weird and I'll admit I took some time finding my footing.

if you're scum reading me, where would you look for the next scum? Who do you think is linked with me?

I'd look into Skunkbeard. I could imagine if it's more noticeable if a team mate does something special day 1, which could be why you honed in on him then.
Other than that maybe Alien or Kook, but I'll have to reread more before I can form a conclusion.

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

my vidyagames > your vidyagames andor must hate everything popular and if my things ever become popular then that is obviously because my things are actually good, unlike the rubbish that you like

am cool and like cool things

 

[San Franpsycho]

I don't think it's very likely the arsonist is with scum, unless it's some sort of one shot ability maybe. I'm all about non-traditional game design so I guess you can never be too sure. But here's the big question to you:

You are now suggesting not only is Kook the arsonist, but she's the MAFIA arsonist... and despite pushing the "Kook is scum" angle hard yesterday you open with... a shift to Woodsman. Why? That part just sticks with me. People can say yes, no, whatever about the switch thing. I find the pivot here really concerning.

No? I'm not suggesting that at all?

I don't think there's a mafia arsonist. I'm saying it looks like Kook is doing a lot of work off the page and not at all engaging with any of it in the thread and I can't imagine why anyone who's town would do that. It's either that or all her reads have been like magical lightning strikes that she didn't have to push or lift a finger for at all and boy that's convenient either way, isn't it.

I'm not sure what in my post led you to think that I was saying mafia arsonist but I think someone else picked that up too so I must have really fucked up my middle of the night phrasing. AND I WASN'T EVEN DRUNK

 

[San Franpsycho]

Boo, being locked into your own house will at least be a story in the future, eh? :/

 

[Snow Ghost]

But it's also a good place for the scum arsonist to hide.

yeah that really was a sentence you wrote sans

 

[San Franpsycho]

Gonna start at the bottom and work my way up :

Woodsman - I have been scum reading him for a while now for his play feeling overly calculated. But that's a bit subjective so I'm going to pull up a few interactions here as well.



A post shading scooby snack for defending Gnome prior to the red check.




And a couple of posts about the vote situation on Gnome and Gnome's vote on D2. I do agree with Woodsman that him not being on the D3 vote is NAI though.

But that's the the entirety of Woodsman's mentions of Gnome in the game, there were no interactions with him directly and there doesn't seem to have been much scrutiny around other people's interactions beyond the one post.

On the other side, these are Gnome's mentions of Woodsman.



In response to " woodsman has not engaged with gnome at all. spooky space cook has not given super detailed thoughts on gnome thus far. " from scooby snack monster

Which was very much true, but could be seen as a defense of either woodsman or me.

And that's it. Gnome did not mention Woodsman in any reads or any interactions past that.

Moving on to Woodsman and Char's interactions



Early Day 1, Woodsman is shading Char for a cheeky comment about who CGG was hoping they would roll scum this game.

Day 2, Woodsman then started to immediately shade Char by saying that he hadn't had much of an impact so far Day 2 and that was where the suspicion was coming from.




A while later on Day 2, Woodsman and Char have this interaction :








Woods later follows it up with





The next interaction between the 2 is at CGG's claim where Woodsman is the first one out of the gate to question the claim by pointing out that jman wasn't there :



Looking on the other side of the interactions, outside of that Day 2 interaction, Char never really mentioned woodsman at all.

Thinking about all of these interactions is what has me leaning scum on Woodsman. While Woods has not given us a reads list he has been consistently interested in voting for Char even when no one else is on the train. He doesn't really seem to have taken any hard stances on it or tried to convince people that Char was scum as much as just made a few votes that would potentially look good if Char flipped scum down the line. It feels like a tunnel born out of nothing and feels pretty bussy to me. And it still all feels calculated to the point that I'm questioning if Woodsman's questioning of CGG's role was calculated as well, but there's no way to know that till later.

Woodsman has gone a bit further since Char's flip and mentioned a few times worth looking at in the game, but it still feels odd to me.

And since I've mentioned a few times that Woodsman is my only real scum read at the moment

Vote : Woodsman

Why are you choosing to case Woodsman today?

Or let me ask you this way: Repeatedly you have voted or wanted to vote someone who seems like a lock for the day, and sometimes before they were a lock for the day, but you haven't really cased them. So why now?

And how is Woodsman's play different from yours? Why should we not scumread you for the things you're pointing out in Woodsman, particularly when you talk about tunnels born out of nothing? Your reads seem to have come from nothing. So what's different?

 

[San Franpsycho]

yeah that really was a sentence you wrote sans

Neutrals with killing powers are also scum?

Scum = people who are threats to town, not just mafia

But yeah, I can see how that would invite confusion - I remember this coming up in a previous game also a long time ago. I just use "scum" as a blanket term for "all the people trying to murder us before we can murder them."

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

Wow that’s a terrible attempt at looking busy from woodsman.
He pushes everyone to vote who hasn’t, but he just ignores my joke vote still hanging out there?

 

[San Franpsycho]

I'd look into Skunkbeard. I could imagine if it's more noticeable if a team mate does something special day 1, which could be why you honed in on him then.
Other than that maybe Alien or Kook, but I'll have to reread more before I can form a conclusion.

I don't know how anyone can look at Skunkbeard and say "yeah, that's someone I need to look into" at this point, honestly.

Old Skunkbeard was fully into his own admitted town meta.

New Skunkbeard has been incredibly engaged.

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

Why are you choosing to case Woodsman today?

Or let me ask you this way: Repeatedly you have voted or wanted to vote someone who seems like a lock for the day, and sometimes before they were a lock for the day, but you haven't really cased them. So why now?

And how is Woodsman's play different from yours? Why should we not scumread you for the things you're pointing out in Woodsman, particularly when you talk about tunnels born out of nothing? Your reads seem to have come from nothing. So what's different?

I'm going to case multiple people today, just started at the bottom of my reads list as I figured my scum reads were the most important to show first. I'm specifically showing everything I can at this point because there are multiple people who have stated that they don't see where I'm coming from on my votes and there's a potential that I'm voted out today. If I am, I want to have as much out there to be used as possible

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

Why are you choosing to case Woodsman today?

Or let me ask you this way: Repeatedly you have voted or wanted to vote someone who seems like a lock for the day, and sometimes before they were a lock for the day, but you haven't really cased them. So why now?

And how is Woodsman's play different from yours? Why should we not scumread you for the things you're pointing out in Woodsman, particularly when you talk about tunnels born out of nothing? Your reads seem to have come from nothing. So what's different?

Speaking of, is there anyone in particular you want me to explain my thoughts on at the moment? You were next on showing where my thoughts were but I'm a little daunted by going back over all of your posts again

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

I’d like to vote woodsman but that would put it turbo-1 and we got multiple teams out there so i’ll go my ”Don’t forget em” target that hasn’t had the level of scrutiny most of my scum reads got so far

vote: snow creature

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

Arsonist douse list if you want to try realigning as a town sided neut

Kook
Woodsman if not dead
Snow creature

Lower priority
alien
lightning
boobeard

 

[San Franpsycho]

Speaking of, is there anyone in particular you want me to explain my thoughts on at the moment? You were next on showing where my thoughts were but I'm a little daunted by going back over all of your posts again

I don't say this to be mean but I'm not throwing you a rope. I need you to climb on up yourself.

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

Wow that’s a terrible attempt at looking busy from woodsman.
He pushes everyone to vote who hasn’t, but he just ignores my joke vote still hanging out there?

I meant boobeard

granted his life sucks rn so no hate.

still can’t read you with that level of effort tho.

 

[Snow Creature]

Arsonist douse list if you want to try realigning as a town sided neut

Kook
Woodsman if not dead
Snow creature

Lower priority
alien
lightning
boobeard

Have you talked much about your Kook scum read? (Assuming that's why you want arsonist to douse them)

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

Have you talked much about your Kook scum read? (Assuming that's why you want arsonist to douse them)

Nope. I’ve never mentioned kook at all.
because i haven’t read her yet.

But a bunch of my more solid town reads are down on her, so i put her on the list. if she turned out town on a burn-flip we could work with a lot of interactions to see if my reads are any good.

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

I do not understand why you don't understand it, really.

In your mind Char is town because nobody counter-claimed N1 gossip chat. Stan points out that Tech never defended Char and even considered him a good vote. This does not matter to you, why? Surely Tech would say at least something in Char's defense if Char was telling the truth, instead of that post you quoted.

Omg read what Tech said about Ghost Bear as well jfc lol

Ghost Bear is even less of a presence than I thought. Hardly anything besides voting for Boo. Don't want to fall into the trap of "scum wouldn't put this little effort in would they" but scum wouldn't put this little effort in would they? I'd be fine with voting him.

Tech states he would be fine voting Ghost Bear, but doesn't.

Oh I think I may know who San Fran is. Not that it means much.

Mason claim is believable. Wax doing the bare minimum and then ghosting is annoying but not worth voting for. Char is a viable alternative assuming he doesn't go elsewhere.

Tech states Char is a viable alternative, but doesn't vote him.
--------
I still stand by my skepticism. Obviously it worked so hey, mad props. It forced a terribad claim and we got the result we needed. But that doesn't change that I thought the initial logic was shaky. If CCG doesn't come out with such a bad claim I probably don't even change my mind on him that day phase honestly. Turns out I was wrong, shit happens, but that doesn't mean I have to just go "yep, play got results thus perfect logic way to go".

No? I'm not suggesting that at all?

I don't think there's a mafia arsonist. I'm saying it looks like Kook is doing a lot of work off the page and not at all engaging with any of it in the thread and I can't imagine why anyone who's town would do that. It's either that or all her reads have been like magical lightning strikes that she didn't have to push or lift a finger for at all and boy that's convenient either way, isn't it.

I'm not sure what in my post led you to think that I was saying mafia arsonist but I think someone else picked that up too so I must have really fucked up my middle of the night phrasing. AND I WASN'T EVEN DRUNK

Then I'm not following the disparate conclusions. You're arguing both "I think Kook seems like the arsonist" and "Kook seems like mafia because of bussing without explanation". If you aren't implying the arsonist is mafia, then your two implications directly conflict with each other?
------

Not sure where the votes are, but it seems there's no appetite for Sans today (something something, rue the day you ignored my reasoning). If it's between Woodsman and Snow I'd definitely go Woodsman. Woodsman and Kook, hmm, tougher - probably Woodsman still. I don't think either is particularly likely to be aligned with my top scum read so it's a bit of a tossup. Both have done the 'ahhh scrutiny, let me play the game mafia' thing which I don't love because gun to my head I'd say it's more likely to be scum that pick the pace up. WIFOM tho so take it as you will. The D2 vote is probably what pushes me over. That we see Woodsman jump on CCG when it's quiet, suddenly CCG's wagon builds, and then you see both CCG and Gnome jump on Ghost Bear to create the separation. It really is a bit of a safer bus, and then he shies away from the read by D4, immediately after scum is got by a red check. Could've been regret and a desire to avoid a back to back scum vote.

 

[Spooky Space Kook]

I don't say this to be mean but I'm not throwing you a rope. I need you to climb on up yourself.

Huh, that's a surprising answer to be honest. I would think that if you're certain I'm scum that's been actively bussing teammates you'd want me to expand on people you were suspecting

 

[Snow Creature]

I haven't done the Sans reread I was hoping for, but I would absolutely consider voting there.

It's a riskier vote than Woodsman who I'm confident on, but I feel we'd learn more from a Sans scum flip. I just don't want to get this wrong after three town deaths, so it's why I'm tempted to just stick with the easier option.

 

[Snow Ghost]

Tech states he would be fine voting Ghost Bear, but doesn't.

Tech states Char is a viable alternative, but doesn't vote him.
--------
I still stand by my skepticism. Obviously it worked so hey, mad props. It forced a terribad claim and we got the result we needed. But that doesn't change that I thought the initial logic was shaky. If CCG doesn't come out with such a bad claim I probably don't even change my mind on him that day phase honestly. Turns out I was wrong, shit happens, but that doesn't mean I have to just go "yep, play got results thus perfect logic way to go".

Ok, final attempt since I clearly am not getting through:

Ignore the GB bit. Tech thinks Char is a viable alternative. Would Tech say that if he chatted with Char N1?

@Woodsman Hammer -2 and the remaining votes are eager to get in. Cool fellas drop their claims early.

 

[Neon Phantom]

"That's the man behind the mask." I am willing to trust him with most of these things. Even though things might seem odd on the surface, is he being nefarious? I don't think so. The things and the ways he has done them might be unorthodox, but I think they are done in order to show what he thinks. I don't feel that he does them to manipulate people or in order to steer things into bad directions. If he is doing that, he is not doing it in a too impactful way at all.

He should be more public with his reads though, you are right. It is a time to be rather open with your opinions and passivity is a burden on everyone.

@Lightning Strikes who were the retracted scum reads of yours from yesterday or whenever? They still scum?

I think all of this is pretty accurate, though I think there have been reads. But it's hard to ignore meta when he admitted his own identity and what you describe seems NAI. I come back to interactions and I can't imagine that level of fakery. It happens. But... I just don't see it here.



I don't think this is a bad argument - like I get the logic of it and nod along - but contextually I can't agree, if that makes sense?

What can I say, until today I wasn't even entirely sure it was him and not cosplay.

But if you and Snog Ghost both consider actions I look at and find suspicious to be NAI then I guess I would ask you both to at least consider that NAI doesn't mean town.

It doesn't mean someone's actions should be written off with that's just thems.
That only benefits them.

Maybe I'm reading some of those actions as scummier than they are.
I said I was suspicious not dead set on it.
But they're sure not town indicators either so maybe his scummy actions are just scummy.

He can get away with more than others might.
If I had pulled that EOD2 gambit instead of him I don't believe for a second I would have gotten off so easily.

But he did, because Lightning loves his off the cuff gambits.

It got one of them off the main train for the purposes of vote analysis and it could have derailed some late movement.

Snow Creature was analysing how he thought scum might have been trying to move trains safely that day to save Char.
He thinks the shuffling at EOD implicates Woodsman as an attempt to get away from Char being at risk instead of a safe bus.
His case is something I've been thinking about.

But maybe this was a similar attempt.
Get the mason displaced voters to vote on the wtf thing at eod instead of the scummy alternative to the missing bear. Split the votes in the process so neither is likely to get as high as the lead Bear already had.

Granted Gnome was the only movement so it didn't exactly work but it did distract from Char's supposed intention to claim in those last five minutes.

... And if, if, by bad luck and judgement it had worked too maybe Gnome would have come out of it looking better.
He always wanted to be part of a scum killing swerve after all.

He quickly nahed his way out of actually looking at lightning the next day too, and before he knew it would end up being all about him.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Then I'm not following the disparate conclusions. You're arguing both "I think Kook seems like the arsonist" and "Kook seems like mafia because of bussing without explanation". If you aren't implying the arsonist is mafia, then your two implications directly conflict with each other?

I know you're very "bitch eating crackers" with me here but what if you tried reading what I said in the very post you quoted? I explained it there and I'll explain it again. Kook has only JUST NOW put any reasoning at all into the thread, on Woodsman, which is probably the easiest case to make today because everyone is doing it. How has Kook gotten to these gold star reads that she isn't pushing? Answer: she wants to look good enough to stay alive but not good enough to get NKed, to help along those who are going to die while selecting douse targets.

Option 1: is mafia, so just knows (probable)
Option 2: is doing work outside the thread that we don't see for her own purposes (outlier, but let me have my fancy play theory)
(Option 3: is magical)

 

[Woodsman]

Ok, final attempt since I clearly am not getting through:

Ignore the GB bit. Tech thinks Char is a viable alternative. Would Tech say that if he chatted with Char N1?

@Woodsman Hammer -2 and the remaining votes are eager to get in. Cool fellas drop their claims early.

Why are people still discussing if Char was chatting with Tech N1 or not?

Also, I have nothing to claim. I'm vanilla.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

This is the point were I vote for a competing wagon to make it close however the only person with 2 votes is San who I dont feel comfortable voting today.

Quick someone start an attractive wagon.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Why are people still discussing if Char was chatting with Tech N1 or not?

This at least I agree with. I don't really see the point. N1 is conjecture. We don't know who Tech chatted with (just that it clearly wasn't Char), we don't know if Hyde was really doused because Wax won't just be open with us, who knows, what is life, the answer is 42, etc.

I don't believe you're vanilla, though. I believe you just learned to keep it simple lol

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Unvote

 

[Lightning Strikes]

I know mechanic talk dont boil me alive @San Franpsycho


Can someone tell me around how many Vanilla players are expected in a 24 player game?

I'm trying to visualize about how many truthful vanilla claims we have left based on flips

 

[Snow Ghost]

What can I say, until today I wasn't even entirely sure it was him and not cosplay.

But if you and Snog Ghost both consider actions I look at and find suspicious to be NAI then I guess I would ask you both to at least consider that NAI doesn't mean town.

It doesn't mean someone's actions should be written off with that's just thems.
That only benefits them.

Maybe I'm reading some of those actions as scummier than they are.
I said I was suspicious not dead set on it.
But they're sure not town indicators either so maybe his scummy actions are just scummy.

He can get away with more than others might.
If I had pulled that EOD2 gambit instead of him I don't believe for a second I would have gotten off so easily.

But he did, because Lightning loves his off the cuff gambits.

It got one of them off the main train for the purposes of vote analysis and it could have derailed some late movement.

Snow Creature was analysing how he thought scum might have been trying to move trains safely that day to save Char.
He thinks the shuffling at EOD implicates Woodsman as an attempt to get away from Char being at risk instead of a safe bus.
His case is something I've been thinking about.

But maybe this was a similar attempt.
Get the mason displaced voters to vote on the wtf thing at eod instead of the scummy alternative to the missing bear. Split the votes in the process so neither is likely to get as high as the lead Bear already had.

Granted Gnome was the only movement so it didn't exactly work but it did distract from Char's supposed intention to claim in those last five minutes.

... And if, if, by bad luck and judgement it had worked too maybe Gnome would have come out of it looking better.
He always wanted to be part of a scum killing swerve after all.

He quickly nahed his way out of actually looking at lightning the next day too, and before he knew it would end up being all about him.

Town can do scummy and scummy looking things too. That's why I, in every game, harp on about meta this and meta that. People are different and do different things. My opinion is that the likely person behind Lightning is acting in a townie manner, even if some of the actions Lightning has performed on their own are questionable and sub-optimal. We are here to judge the players, not the plays. Your alternative explanations about his play seem just theoretical at best.

I will admit that I could be wrong, I've felt stronger about this before. Parts of Lightning's play feel...too planned. Still, as of yet I don't feel the need to change my opinion.

Why are people still discussing if Char was chatting with Tech N1 or not?

TLDR: I don't like Pazzo's Dwhatever Char defense. I feel that he did not fully consider Stan's case and ignored what I felt was the best part about it. It ties to that, read back more to get the rest. Not that anyone agrees with me, but now you know.

 

[Woodsman]

I don't believe you're vanilla, though. I believe you just learned to keep it simple lol

okay

 

[San Franpsycho]

I know mechanic talk dont boil me alive @San Franpsycho


Can someone tell me around how many Vanilla players are expected in a 24 player game?

I'm trying to visualize about how many truthful vanilla claims we have left based on flips

No idea, because we can't see the whole game structure, but probably a fair amount because there was a vanilla cop + the proportion of vanilla flips so far.

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

Ok, final attempt since I clearly am not getting through:

Ignore the GB bit. Tech thinks Char is a viable alternative. Would Tech say that if he chatted with Char N1?

@Woodsman Hammer -2 and the remaining votes are eager to get in. Cool fellas drop their claims early.

Okay, NOW that finally makes sense. Counterpoint: How many people explained that POV D2 for me to even engage with? I was vocal in my discussion around it, and as far as I can remember NO ONE painted the situation in the manner you are now. The issue is you're saying I ignored Part 2 in favor of Part 1, when I should have ignored Part 1 in favor of Part 2. The reality is I didn't split it into parts and was discussing it as a whole. I attacked Part 1 because it seemed like the fault in the whole of the theory. Very different from the selectivity you're implying.

I know you're very "bitch eating crackers" with me here but what if you tried reading what I said in the very post you quoted? I explained it there and I'll explain it again. Kook has only JUST NOW put any reasoning at all into the thread, on Woodsman, which is probably the easiest case to make today because everyone is doing it. How has Kook gotten to these gold star reads that she isn't pushing? Answer: she wants to look good enough to stay alive but not good enough to get NKed, to help along those who are going to die while selecting douse targets.

Option 1: is mafia, so just knows (probable)
Option 2: is doing work outside the thread that we don't see for her own purposes (outlier, but let me have my fancy play theory)
(Option 3: is magical)

Okay, I think I'm following more now whereas before it just felt like pure contradiction in an attempt to paint Kook as scummy either way. When was that reads list from Kook that had them so low? Wasn't it super early like D1 or D2?

Why are people still discussing if Char was chatting with Tech N1 or not?

Also, I have nothing to claim. I'm vanilla.

Because my thought process in regards to CCG is the crux of Ghost scumreading me, and I've been trying to understand what about my issues with the theory he was taking issue with. It's no longer actually about who Tech visited, it's about how people (in this case me) reacted to the arguments surrounding it.

I know mechanic talk dont boil me alive @San Franpsycho


Can someone tell me around how many Vanilla players are expected in a 24 player game?

I'm trying to visualize about how many truthful vanilla claims we have left based on flips

Vanilla cop would indicate there's probably a fair amount of them, also probably a goon.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Okay, I think I'm following more now whereas before it just felt like pure contradiction in an attempt to paint Kook as scummy either way. When was that reads list from Kook that had them so low? Wasn't it super early like D1 or D2?

The one I'm talking about is a little later. The biggest thing I noticed was that when Kook had that early vote on Gnome it was right before the red check and it was the first time she'd ever mentioned Gnome. Char was back high again for reasons (she's given hers but they don't carry much weight for me) and Woodsman was also in the bottom.

I think the best argument for her as mafia is putting Char back up high after he survived the first push (plus the accuracy of the very uninvolved reads).

 

[San Franpsycho]

I'm probably out for a while, until near EoD - have a lot of shit to do that I'm not doing.

 

[Snow Ghost]

Okay, NOW that finally makes sense. Counterpoint: How many people explained that POV D2 for me to even engage with? I was vocal in my discussion around it, and as far as I can remember NO ONE painted the situation in the manner you are now. The issue is you're saying I ignored Part 2 in favor of Part 1, when I should have ignored Part 1 in favor of Part 2. The reality is I didn't split it into parts and was discussing it as a whole. I attacked Part 1 because it seemed like the fault in the whole of the theory. Very different from the selectivity you're implying.

Explained it specifically to you, possibly nobody. It was my view on the matter though:

It is risky in a vacuum, don't disagree, but I was more thinking that an aggressive opportunist saw an opportunity and seized it. Char had/has pressure on him and I have no doubt in my mind that he knows that such a claim, if successful, will by him at least two or more days of life and a comfortable position to be in. Many people as scum would not do such a claim without all the necessary info but, and enter META READ, I don't think Char would fear it.

Could somebody please check what Tech had to say about Char, if anything? Somewhat certain that there was nothing but it wouldn't hurt to check again now that the chat was claimed. Even a comment against the Char train yesterday could be seen as a hint whereas the absence of one would be at least a bit odd.

ok real later now confirmedtown.gif

RE: Scum Char by Stan.

"I'd be fine with voting for Ghost Bear", a man who had a green check on Ghost Bear. I want to say naaah but I know some folks put weight on staying more hidden and are more paranoid about Godfathers and stuff. I'll still say naaah though. The Frankenstein idea could work but IIRC D1 had no crumbs pointing toward it either so it is just a guess at best. I don't think we can disprove Char's claim through this but on the other hand, much like with Ghost Bear, surely Tech would've been opposed to voting Char if he had a green check on him.

Indeed. There was no green check on Char, that's why. Char just saw an opportunity to survive with the gossip claim and he took it. Tunneling, extremely aggro when under heat, disinterested in contributing when given the chance to do so, manipulative with his claim. Well hidden is the supposed townie in all this scum.

I didn't check Tech's posts myself on D3 because the day was hammered before I had the time to get back. Then Stan did the work for me during the night. A pointless question, but for the record, did you see the 2nd post I quoted? Cat quoted it too, double the visibility, wow.

What do you mean by "The issue is you're saying I ignored Part 2 in favor of Part 1, when I should have ignored Part 1 in favor of Part 2.", I don't really get that.

 

[BooBeard]

Okay I've got a brief repose from work so I'll try to string together a post. Thanks for your kind words everyone.

And Boo, I hope everything picks up for you!

If you have the time, you said Kook looks worse after the Char flip. Can you explain your reasoning? I don't remember you going too in depth with it.

Okay so I had Kook as a null read for most of the game until last day phase. I found their votes a little convenient, but nothing that would ring alarm bells for me. They seemed to be coasting a bit (not that I can really jab anyone for that after my last two day phases). However, I found some points being made yesterday by a bunch of other players to be convincing:

Updated read list from before would make this my current PoE:
Kook
Alien
Woodsman
Char


Char flipping Scum, which I do think he will, makes Kook look worse imo. Woods looks a bit worse if Char flips Neutral/Town. Alien is just there.

Cat explained why they thought this earlier:

Huh... I'll be honest I completely missed that read list in #1366 when checking the ISO. That whole thing is kind of.... yikes. Lightning as the top Scum read? And shouting out the Arsonist as a possible reason (neutral hunting, big yikes). Gnome is also in kind of a happy place in that list, above a bunch of other people she's calling Scum instead.

Char flips Scum, I'd want to see Kook's flip for sure. Even without it, possible connection to Gnome.

Fuck, that read list was the key to a much more solid read on her lol.

At the time I felt this was a pretty solid connection. That read list really doesn't look great, but it was a list from early on in the game. Cat flipped town as well lending further credence to this.

Also, one last Gnome comment. I think it might be worth looking at because at least one of these is likely scum:

I've crossed off the dead, leaving Pazzo, Sans, Kook, and Cat. Think Gnome will have tried to slip scum in there.

You yourself noted this list of players Gnome mentioned as town, and Kook is included here but not Char, which increases the odds of one of these players being scum and thus increases the odds of Kook being scum.

This list was already brought up from Gnome's posts.
Pazzo, Sans, Snack, Techni, Kook, and Cat
There is scum among these 4.

Baba agreed with this as well, they've flipped town and their investigations were pretty good before being offed.

I clipped the rest because this is the part I want to talk about. What did Kook do that actually made that vote a threat?

Kook defended Char, voted, said one thing, and then townread Char again the next day. How? Why? What's townie? In the rest, you say the next day isn't green and I agree - but what's "green" about the actions on d2? How did Kook even get there after defending Char previously? It's just a vote. There is NOTHING with it. No teeth. No push. No nothing. Even if you think the threat was greater than I do, where's the town impetus in the actual d2 action? Meanwhile Kook - as you yourself pointed out - has done a lot of nothing but blend. So I don't even see how that d2 vote could be read as town. There's such a low chance that wagon is pure if Char is indeed mafia, not the way people bus around here, and it is unlikely everyone just stacked on Gnome because people avoid stacking even on a vote like that. If you think Char was actually threatened, in fact, I think the chance that there's at least one teammate was on that wagon goes up - for those same reasons. And Kook looks bad.

You know what, there's been so much of this that I want that for my counterwagon, especially since everyone seems fine acknowledging Alien is coasting and then shrugging it off.
vote: Spooky Space Kook

Char will go today regardless but there's a lot of votes that can be used to put pressure on others.

I already mentioned how I found myself nodding along to this San post.

This is pretty performative and a little hypocritical honestly. You talk about wanting to apply pressure in the same post as saying that Char will go today regardless, so what pressure does this actually create? It's an empty vote in a post where you're zoning in on what you consider an empty vote on my side

I found this reply to San's post more of a deflection than anything on first read. Going back now I'm not so sure, but once again I'm feeling paranoid.

That's why I was scum leaning them at day start. I think they're back to neutral for now because I am still re-evaluating my thoughts. I haven't been able to do the re-read I wanted with everything going on in my life. If Woodsman flips scum I will feel slightly better about San, I don't think they're both scum and San is bussing, it feels too much for that for me, but going by what others have said about scum nightkilling teammates in past games I have no idea anymore. So I'm super paranoid, my brain is probably not in the right headspace to evaluate that. I'm gonna stay with my current vote for now but it seems like Woodsman will be the vote today anyway.

TL;DR: I agreed with other player's logic and am now waffling. If you think I'm stupid for just going along with it and not thinking completely myself from the start that's okay.

Hopefully this post was somewhat useful. Depending on how things go I could suspect Kook again, they're not cleared by any means in my mind. I just wouldn't choose to go there as my first pick right now, or even second or third.

 

[BooBeard]

I meant boobeard

granted his life sucks rn so no hate.

still can’t read you with that level of effort tho.

You're right this was a bad post, I'll try to do better

 

[BooBeard]

I've got straight back to back meetings now until day end so I'm out, peace

 

[Snow Ghost]

The one I'm talking about is a little later. The biggest thing I noticed was that when Kook had that early vote on Gnome it was right before the red check and it was the first time she'd ever mentioned Gnome. Char was back high again for reasons (she's given hers but they don't carry much weight for me) and Woodsman was also in the bottom.

I think the best argument for her as mafia is putting Char back up high after he survived the first push (plus the accuracy of the very uninvolved reads).

Vote record says that Kook only voted Gnome once and that was directly after Snacky's red check. The rest is correct I think, it's D3 start.

 

[Woodsman]

Just a heads up, I probably won't be around for EoD, so don't expect a huge defense from me.

 

[Snow Ghost]

Just a heads up, I probably won't be around for EoD, so don't expect a huge defense from me.

Any final words?

 

[Neon Phantom]

It still completely throws me that if Woodsman is scum he sat on Char until the points where it would actually have made sense to sit on Char. If Char had been neutral I can see why he might have hesitated in favour of letting Stan take the brunt of what he'd know wouldn't be a scum flip, but considering Char was scum it makes so much less sense. All my logic screams at me that a scummate who'd been working that bus would just have driven it home rather than getting cold feet.

After seeing Creature's take on those trains and seeing the echoes of others in some of their wording today and knowing that I felt good before about them essentially agreeing with me I'm going to go skip back, and considering how many other things I need to go back over I'm just going to go and do that rather than keep putting it off while waffling.

For now I'm going with my stronger bad feeling to get a vote on the board because that's the one I feel comfortable with though.

Vote: Lightning Strikes

 

[Alien]

CGG postings

No serious posts until #233.

#233 - Prods Woodsman to make use of their free time

#244 - Wax is cosplaying

#272 - disagrees with Snack who had suggested a turbo

#437 - votes Wax

#466 - mentions possibility of Geno like body switcher role

#473 - disagrees with Tech post #470 about Cosplay being NAI, Mentions Geno body switcher role again

#515 - Prods Jman about not keeping identity secret

#525 - 'played in games elsewhere where scum had to guess players real names'

#527 - Wax is scum, wants someone to pressure Cat Creature to stop posting Meow'

#529 - claims unlikely new players would sign up for this game

#773 - claims Frankenstein kill was weird

#775 - states Anthos was a good vote
#780 - reiterates this point ^, was meh on BooBeard

#793, 797 and 804 - argues with Snack who thinks CGG is scum
#812 - claims post #773 was made because they were super bored

#819 - BooBeard was 'less suspicious' than Anthos

#838 - claims to know who Boo Bear is. Thinks it may be bait though.

#873 - votes Wax

#955 - wants to pressure Wax

#962 - thinks scum is 'chilling in the background'

#1034 - doesn't like Kook's post #1016

#1035 - Jman will either dig his own grave or be obvious town

#1046 - continues to push Wax

#1053, 1055 and 1057 - Arguing with Baba

#1059 - thinks Sans and Pazzi are town

#1061 - Only scum read is Wax

#1063 - Boo, Stan and Ghost Bear all Null

#1067 - 'why would scum lie about having no reads'

#1074, 1076 and 1078 - Talking with Stan about Wax

#1083 - Only interested in Wax vote

#1105 - thinks people are lying about being frustrated

#1109 - agrees with Sans, scumreading people for activity isn't 'mean'

#1234, 1237 and 1240 - not happy about votes on them

#1251 - votes Ghost Bear for 'self-preservation'

#1252 - not happy about Ghost Bear vote, play for town cred? Says they'll claims in last 5 mins.

#1262 - not happy

#1268 - doesn't want to claim anymore

#1305 - 'wtf is this' in reference to Lightning post #1302

#1349 - not happy about Yaga outing them
#1359 - claims to be Night One Tech Chat target

#1479 - talks about Night Chat

#1480 - happy to vote Gnome

#1488 - Think Tech was killed by his Night Chat visitor
#1490 - Continues with this theory

#1501 - Baba or Skunk visited TP

#1508 - Snack's play is weird but still should vote there

#1513 - wants to turbo

#1516 - doesnt think Gnome is neutral

#1518 - votes Gnome in response to me not wanting to put us 1 away from Turbo

#1648 - comes back looking like they'll be voted out, isn't happy
#1649, 1650, 1651, 1654, 1655 and 1657 - still angry, no real info on these posts

#1657 - argues with Wax

#1685 - Fake role claim

#1686 - votes for Skunk

#1693 - 'forgot about Jman'

#1696 - pushes Skunk = scum again

#1701 - I asked why they didn't check me, claim they don't know who I am. Claims TP was think of chatting with Skunk as reason to vote there.

#1704 - refutes Baba Yaga's claim that they are the Arsonist

#1706 - claims TP had Skunk as a slight scum read

#1717 - Defends failure to 'check' Jman

#1778 - tells town to vote them out

#1831 - Makes fake Scrappy Doo claim

No more serious posts after this.

So again a flipped scum lists Pazzo and Sans as town. Despite again remarkably little communication with either. Both scum listed both players as town based on not much.

Please somebody try to explain to my why both scum coincidentally listed those two specific players as town, one of the. One of them is scum I'm sure of it.

And again both scum had very little interest in the BooBeard situation.

It's extremely interesting that neither felt the need to jump on what was looking like a fairly easy vote on Day 1.

 

[Snow Ghost]

I read Kook again, to see if the so-called GODREADS exist. I don't think they do. Gnome being closer to the bottom of her read list ain't that offensive to me, I didn't feel too certain about Gnome around that point either (not that I ever said that, hit me). Obviously the list becomes more of an issue if Woody flips scum but for now her behavior around Char feels like the greatest weapon against her besides her lacking content.

wa-wa-wagonomics. But really, she is the secondary that many want. Any interest?

VOTE: Spooky Space Kook

 

[San Franpsycho]

Vote record says that Kook only voted Gnome once and that was directly after Snacky's red check. The rest is correct I think, it's D3 start.

I thought I read it on the page before the check but maybe not? I'll try to look before EoD. I find it hard to keep up with some of these details without the vote tool (zero fault to A, who is doing their best keeping up with this alone, and it's hard, I'm just used to relying on the tool!) and it makes me feel really scattered.

 

[San Franpsycho]

the list becomes more of an issue if Woody flips scum

And that's why I think Woodsman is the better vote today, but I support multiple wagons always.

 

[Snow Creature]

Hopefully this post was somewhat useful. Depending on how things go I could suspect Kook again, they're not cleared by any means in my mind. I just wouldn't choose to go there as my first pick right now, or even second or third.

Yeah that was actually useful, thanks for putting all that down when you're so busy.

I'd completely forgot about Gnome's list too. I'll have to reread Kook myself as I was feeling okay about them.

 

[The Ghost of Stealin Stan]

i support multiple wagons in spirit but i'm not moving my vote because i think woodsman is scummier than space kook. would vote kook if it was her vs anyone else.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Vote:Spooky Space Kook

 

[Alien]

Nobody is interested in Pazzo (and to be honest I feel like I probably honed in on the wrong person here) so I'll move, happy with a Woodsman Vote, not so sure about Kook.

Through my looking through the two scum's posts Sans stuck out so I'm going to vote here for now.

Vote:San Franpsycho

 

[Lightning Strikes]

For now I'm going with my stronger bad feeling to get a vote on the board because that's the one I feel comfortable with though.

Vote: Lightning Strikes

This vote on me is gonna get zero traction.

Will you switch before end of day or just ride this vote on me?