Design & discussion

heymonkey

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I see you made a new thread so they wouldn't see how many gossips we wanted to put in.
 

Franconp

Frank
I'm a bit lost here. The spreadsheet has a design but the doc has another roles.

Are those roles unused ideas? Because I love some of them, like the mistletoe and the quest giver (although the quest shoud be changed, when was the last time we had a tie in our community).

This will be kind of a mess as I will just put some thoughts as I find them:

Regarding the design I find interesting the party host but I don't know if it will very useful. It's mostly extending the day phase for an extra day and I usually feel that 72hs phases are too long (and if you use the hectomad it may be a 96hs long phase) and at the EoD most people are already tired and just want a lynch. But it doesn't affect balance in any way. If you want to keep it as a gimmick it's fine.

If you are giving the doctor unlimited shots I would give the strong at least 2 or 3 (like 3 more) shots. Can the doctor self-target?

And scum powers seems kind of a waste. Scum has tracker but he only actions he can track are the doctor, the messenger and the fruit vendor. The roleblocker can only target those 3 too. But of those 3 only one is important. The fruit vendor is a red herring and the messenger is not a dangerous role. So scum has 2 roles to counter the doctor.

Town is missing any kind of informative role. No cop, no tracker or some other way to find scum besides good scumhunting. I think we all know that could be a disaster.

Isn't the ascetic the same as a vanilla townie in this design? It doesn't really matter if the roleblocker or tracker target him because he has no action that can be tracked or blocked.

I like the clairvoyant. I had a similar role in Arkham and near end game it will get a lot of good results. That would mean that he has to survive that long so it's not bad. Also explain it well in the PM because the player that had it in Arkham completly misunderstood the role and fucked it up until I explained it step by step again. How many lynches was the plan?

Worse case scenario for town would be D7, which is fine. But it's likely that it would be longer as town has 2 roles that can prevent NK and scum don't have an extra kill.

Worse case scenario for scum would be at the end of D4. But it's unlikely unless scum really fuck that up.
 

heymonkey

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Staff member
Oh, you know, we were gonna make the Player a JOAT and then we didn't and we probably didn't redo after when we got excited about party hosting.
 

Franconp

Frank
YOU CAN'T SEE THIS THREAD
IT HAS 200 GOSSIPS

Is this a reference from the games? Because I never played the game.

But I used to play Harvest Moon on PS so I know how the game goes.



Also fun fact: The book Blood, Sweat and Pixels by Jason Schreier has a really good chapter about the creating of the game.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
I'm a bit lost here. The spreadsheet has a design but the doc has another roles.

Are those roles unused ideas? Because I love some of them, like the mistletoe and the quest giver (although the quest shoud be changed, when was the last time we had a tie in our community).

Yeah, like i said up there it will contain the PMs in the future, but right now it's, like you said, unused ideas. Don't worry about it, and I'm sorry for the confusion.

Regarding the design I find interesting the party host but I don't know if it will very useful. It's mostly extending the day phase for an extra day and I usually feel that 72hs phases are too long (and if you use the hectomad it may be a 96hs long phase) and at the EoD most people are already tired and just want a lynch. But it doesn't affect balance in any way. If you want to keep it as a gimmick it's fine.

I see it as just a small gimmick, nothing else, so don't think it's harmful for the balance.

If you are giving the doctor unlimited shots I would give the strong at least 2 or 3 (like 3 more) shots. Can the doctor self-target?
We didn't put modifiers on most roles because we knew it could all change during balance, so I'm very open to making them stronger/weaker! The Doctor can now target itself but also willing to change that.

And scum powers seems kind of a waste. Scum has tracker but he only actions he can track are the doctor, the messenger and the fruit vendor. The roleblocker can only target those 3 too. But of those 3 only one is important. The fruit vendor is a red herring and the messenger is not a dangerous role. So scum has 2 roles to counter the doctor.
You're right, maybe Town needs more active PRs so the Tracker and the RB become more useful.

Town is missing any kind of informative role. No cop, no tracker or some other way to find scum besides good scumhunting. I think we all know that could be a disaster.
This one I disagree with; scumhunting is the basis of Mafia and I don't think it's a problem for a design to not have informative roles. That we don't do that a lot doesn't mean it's necessarily bad.

Isn't the ascetic the same as a vanilla townie in this design? It doesn't really matter if the roleblocker or tracker target him because he has no action that can be tracked or blocked.
Erm, true... I kinda missed that. We'd have to give him another role...

I like the clairvoyant. I had a similar role in Arkham and near end game it will get a lot of good results. That would mean that he has to survive that long so it's not bad. Also explain it well in the PM because the player that had it in Arkham completly misunderstood the role and fucked it up until I explained it step by step again. How many lynches was the plan?
That will depend on how the rest of the game would go, but my first choice would be 3?
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
the "200 gossips" joke references the other thread on this board, Fran :D nothing to do with the game
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
But I used to play Harvest Moon on PS so I know how the game goes.
BACK TO NATURE IS SO GOOD

also you're the second person in the last couple of weeks that recommend me Schreier's book, might pick it up soon.
 

Franconp

Frank
This one I disagree with; scumhunting is the basis of Mafia and I don't think it's a problem for a design to not have informative roles. That we don't do that a lot doesn't mean it's necessarily bad

The last game I played that town didn't had informative roles (kinda, it had a really nerfed 1-shot cop) was Cluedo and let's say that Town didn't do very well there (it went really badly really).

I think weak informative role could help the design. Something like a voyeour or watcher. Another role that could help is a role cop. It would be interesting because 2 of the scum role could go either way (tracker and roleblocker) so even if those are targeted town wouldn't have that much info.

That will depend on how the rest of the game would go, but my first choice would be 3?

3 seems fine.

BACK TO NATURE IS SO GOOD

I LOVED that game.

also you're the second person in the last couple of weeks that recommend me Schreier's book, might pick it up soon.

If you are interested in how some games were made and all the crazy things that could happen behind game development is a really good read. I recommend it.
 

heymonkey

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Staff member
I'm playing D&D tonight so I leave this conversation in Pedrolie's capable hands. p.s. add more gossips
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
So it seems the first things we need to take care of are:
Giving the Ascetic something to do so his role can make sense, or remove it altogether, and
Give Town an useful and active role that can be tracked and roleblocked by the Mafia
 

heymonkey

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Staff member
Pedrolie and I talked and we were gonna wait for OA's comments to make sure y'all are on the same page before we make big changes. But I have a question: what if we just gave the ascetic an active role? Two birds, one stone? Or should we have more roles?
 

Franconp

Frank
That's a possibility but it should be a weak role as the ascetic can't be tracked or roleblocked.

An ascetic cop is an extremely OP role. Maybe making the messenger ascetic and giving the messenger another role.
 

heymonkey

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I meant replacing the ascetic if we can find something that fits. But yeah, noted. No ascetic SK cops. :D
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
Pedrolie and I talked and we were gonna wait for OA's comments to make sure y'all are on the same page before we make big changes. But I have a question: what if we just gave the ascetic an active role? Two birds, one stone? Or should we have more roles?
Funny, I was half considering waiting for changes before saying anything lol.

Main thing I was thinking is that the doctor is not really protecting anything important that would even warrant a strong kill, especially since they can't protect themselves (not necessarily a bad thing).

But I do agree that the tracker is not doing a whole lot since half the moving roles aren't really dangerous for mafia.

Also, is the party host publicly posting the command or is it through PMs?

And the flavor for the fruit vendor is just straight up fruits, right?

And I'm a bit wary of having masons as compared to lovers if we're giving town more PRs since that would be giving them a confirmed townie if one dies.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
Basically, we removed the Ascetic, changed Masons to Lovers, and added a JOAT; think that covers most of what you two were asking (an active role to be protected by the Doctor and tracked/roleblocked by Mafia).

And the Party Host would drop a command in the thread, which would prompt us to say it is open for discussion during the night.
 

heymonkey

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That does basically confirm the Party Host, which is a consideration. And there would be no minimum for night chat.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
Alright, what would the command be for the party host?

I think the JOAT needs to lose a shot, maybe the vigilante. I'm thinking a scenario where they shoot d1, and are somewhat free to track/cop since vigilante is a fairly common role. Also, the tracker/doctor combo could possibly make the lovers situation really bad. (I'm just thinking worst case scenario here).

I think there's a lot going town's way here. With the commuter, doctor, joat, friendly neighbor, and a fruit vendor that would mostly bother scum.

In scum's favor there's the lovers, tracker, roleblocker, and strong killer (how many kills will there be?)
 

heymonkey

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(unless we did the Jellies festival, since it's at night, but the Luau is specifically social)

Fine with the JOAT losing the vig shot if Pedro is. I think 1-2 strong kills.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
The command name is just flavor and can be whatever, it's not my concern right now. But the Party Host is now Gus, so it would be him leaving his Saloon open all night long; it wouldn't be the luau.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
I'm okay removing the Vigilante shot, and out of those roles you mentioned, OA, I could take off the Commuter if you think it would be fairer.
 

heymonkey

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I do think the vig shot helps balance the JOAT. Town in general has plenty of negative utility and I kinda wanna keep the commuter. Maybe just make it 1shot?

if we remove the vig, that is
 

Franconp

Frank
I would eliminate the self-heal from the JOAT. Town already has a doctor and the commuter. It doesn't need another protection. 1-shot cop and 1-shot tracker seem fine.

If the lovers are targeted by the doctor protection would only work if scum targeted the same player, right? If scum targeted the other lover they both die anyway?

What happens if the friendly neighbour target a player and the target dies the same night? They lose the shot?

I would give the strong at least 2 shot, maybe 3 as the doctor is unlimited.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
Um, giving 2 shots to the JOAT is too little to me; I'm fine with removing a power, but not two of them. It doesn't make much sense as a role at that point. Which one would you two be more okay with, Cop/Vig/Tracker, or Cop/Doctor/Tracker?

And yes on the Lovers situation. We discussed and we think we can refund the Friendly Neighbor's shot once if that happens.
 

heymonkey

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Staff member
A 3-shot strong kill seems not only OP, but kinda pointless - to me the point of an x-shot strong is that they have to choose when to deploy it. 3-shot is at least half this game unless the strong killer gets lynched.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
I do think the vig shot helps balance the JOAT. Town in general has plenty of negative utility and I kinda wanna keep the commuter. Maybe just make it 1shot?

if we remove the vig, that is
Isn't the lovers the only real negative utility? The fruit vendor doesn't bother town and the messenger isn't really negative either (do they have to message each night?). And the reason I'm asking about the party host is because I don't want an inadvertent town confirmation to result from it.

Reducing the amount of times they commute is fine. But like Fran, I just feel there's a lot of ways to protect themselves
Um, giving 2 shots to the JOAT is too little to me; I'm fine with removing a power, but not two of them. It doesn't make much sense as a role at that point. Which one would you two be more okay with, Cop/Vig/Tracker, or Cop/Doctor/Tracker?

And yes on the Lovers situation. We discussed and we think we can refund the Friendly Neighbor's shot once if that happens.
The way I see it right now, the main update really made town stronger since the scum team didn't get changed and town got the negative of a lover but the buff of a joat and a friendly neighbor.

I'd probably go doc/cop/tracker because I think cop/vig is too good of a combo since regardless of who the vig kills they are confirmed town and they can get a cop check. Only, thing I have against that is that it kind of locks out a town tracker claim as scum.
 

heymonkey

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doc/cop/tracker is fine by me if it's fine by Pedro, and while it's a buff, we do want to consider the odds of any of those actually doing anything as low. I do think three strong shots is too many, but I think we'd be open to hearing other suggestions.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
I'm fine with Doc/Cop/Tracker as well.
Do we want to change the Odd Night Commuter to a 1, 2-shot one, to make it slightly weaker? I'm okay with it.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
And yeah, considering the roster size here I also think a Strongman with 3 shots is a lot. I can understand leaving it as that if you two think Town is too powerful right now.
 

Franconp

Frank
I think 3-shot would be best because you have an unlimited doctor and a self protect. An unlimited doctor near end game with unlimited shots can be a really OP role if scum doesn't have ways to deal with him. It's convenient that you either nerf the doctor and make him x-shot or to buff the strong killer so he can have shots in case he needs them.

Offtopic: Because of this game I got the game and started playing a couple of days ago. It's nice.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
You cool with the 3-shot Strongman too, OA?
And Fran/OA, what do you think on weakening the Commuter?

---

Yes, it's a charming game. And it can be as frantic as you want it to be; you can try and maximize your day time and do as much as you can, or take things slowly and aim for one goal at a time at your leisure.
 

Franconp

Frank
I like the Even/Odd commuter role in general. And it's not like making it an x-shot would make it much weaker.

I would leave it as it is.
 

heymonkey

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It’s a great game. I usually don’t like chore games and I find it delightful. Yay Fran! We encouraged a new fan.

Will answer other stuff later.
 

heymonkey

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Staff member
So if town gets lucky, the game ends D4 at earliest, much more likely D6 or D7.

If scum gets lucky and town is terrible at scum hunting, we're looking at D5 or D6. Likely D7. That would mean scum gets to use the strong kill on almost half their kills. That's why I think the 3-shot is a little OP here.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
I don't think think that it is OP mostly since more often than not doctors don't save anyone so it probably won't matter.

But I just feel that town has a greater advantage at night, especially with the joat.

Is there any other role that can be swapped out for tracker? I feel that if scum claimed town tracker, that the joat might find something off.

Also, is it an alignment shot for the joat?
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
I don't think think that it is OP mostly since more often than not doctors don't save anyone so it probably won't matter.
But we have to try to plan for as many cases as possible. I'm going to echo what monkey said above that in a game this small, around half of the NK attempts by Mafia would be able to be executed by the Strongman, and I think it's a lot. With 3 shots, they don't have to worry about choosing a target that's likely to not be protected by a Doctor, they can just ignore that protection.

The Commuter stays as it is then o/

Yes, it's an alignment cop shot, and I don't know. We could put the Vig shot again, which can hurt Town as well as help them, and make it a Cop/Doc/Vig JOAT. I don't see another action for The Player so to me it's either that or the current one, Cop/Doc/Traker.
 

heymonkey

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The only thing the joat has that may make any real difference is the self protect. Odds of a single cop or tracker shot hitting are low unless the player is real good or survives long enough to use them late.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
You don't even need to catch scum with a cop shot. Confirming someone as town is pretty strong too.

And if we're looking at all scenarios, I feel a lot more can go wrong for scum than could go wrong for town. There are more non-lover town PRs than there are vanilla town. Including a joat with 2 investigative roles and a self heal which could absorb a non strong kill (would the strong kill go through a self heal plus a doctor heal?), a commuter that can potentially absorb a kill, and a doctor that has unlimited shots.

That's not including the fact that scum is on the lower bound with being at 20% for a game this size and I wouldn't call them overpowered in any way to justify that either.
 

heymonkey

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Staff member
Sorry for the delay in response; had some catch-up work to do after MafiEra ended.

So I feel pretty strongly about no three-shot strongman, which I suppose means I have to offer a trade. In order to restrict a strongman to 2 shots, what do you supposed would have to happen to maintain balance here?
 

Franconp

Frank
Sorry for the late replies.

Is there any other role that can be swapped out for tracker? I feel that if scum claimed town tracker, that the joat might find something off.

I think I understand what you are saying. You think that if the scum!tracker claims he could be counterclaimed by the JOAT and cause a thunderdome, right? That could be a bad scenario for scum. Maybe changing the JOAT's tracker shot for another similar role so they don't overlap. Something like a motion detector is a milder investigative role that could work.

So I feel pretty strongly about no three-shot strongman, which I suppose means I have to offer a trade. In order to restrict a strongman to 2 shots, what do you supposed would have to happen to maintain balance here?

Maybe nerfing the doctor, making him 3-shot? My concern is that the strongman is lynched D1 and scum has to deal with a self protect cop and an unlimited doctor during the rest of the game.

Other questions:

The Party Host's command is used in the main thread or by PM?

Can the Friendly Neighbor be roleblocked? What happen with his shot if he is blocked?

Now that I have been playing the game and know about the characters I maybe would change Morris for another villager, maybe Marlon. Morris is the closest the game has to a baddy (at least at the start of the game) so if the player is forced to name claim it could look bad. It's kinda similar with Harvey. Havin the game doctor as the doctor is good but it also makes the claim more powerful as it happened in the recent mafiera game, when Ketkat counterclaimed DrMonkey the doctor. In a case of a false claim, someone false claiming Jodi the doctor vs a Harvey the doctor claim is likely that town would lynch Jodi.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Not a bad point with Harvey - I can also see that leading to everyone name claiming and trying to sort and derailing the game, though I'm also not sure that's a bad thing? Maru is both the nurse and kind of a scientist at heart; if we made the doctor x-shot or otherwise limited, that would work for her in theme but still open things up a bit.

Morris can be given a fake claim.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
The Party Host's command is used in the main thread or by PM?

Can the Friendly Neighbor be roleblocked? What happen with his shot if he is blocked?

The Party Host's command is public, and I think we can open the one-time refund for the Friendly Neighbor in a situation where they're roleblocked as well.

---

Added a priority list to the sheet, it's in the "Night Actions" tab. And fake claims near the Mafia names.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
If it's preferred, we can always change the party host to a private command, but yes, we designed it as public.
 

Franconp

Frank
Sorry for the late reply.

Regarding the order of operations the tracker should be before the roleblocker as he can track all the actions.

Public command is fine.

I think that the JOAT's tracker shot should be changed for some similar ability that doesn't overlap with the scum tracker, like a motion detector.

Regarding the 2-shot roleblock, maybe not giving the JOAT a self heal? Town already has a doctor and a commuter. They don't need another protection. Could just make him 1-shot Aligment/2-shot motion detector.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
Sorry for the late reply.

Regarding the order of operations the tracker should be before the roleblocker as he can track all the actions.

Public command is fine.

I think that the JOAT's tracker shot should be changed for some similar ability that doesn't overlap with the scum tracker, like a motion detector.

Regarding the 2-shot roleblock, maybe not giving the JOAT a self heal? Town already has a doctor and a commuter. They don't need another protection. Could just make him 1-shot Aligment/2-shot motion detector.
Oof, good lord I've been away from this for a while. Many apologies.

But I do agree with you about the joat, I don't like all the healing going on (also gonna try my best not to be influenced by currently running games lol)

But are trackers usually higher priority than roleblock? I've never been too sure of the order of operations.

Also, monkey/Pedro, is there something special you wanted to do with the player character above all else? Because I feel you guys have a certain vision in mind with night talk/fruit vendor/clairvoyant.
 

Franconp

Frank
But are trackers usually higher priority than roleblock? I've never been too sure of the order of operations.

They are kind of in the same priority, I think. A tracker can get results of a roleblocker if he isn't the one roleblocked.

(also gonna try my best not to be influenced by currently running games lol)

Please be careful with this. I'm playing one of the games and Monkey is on the replacement list.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
The order of actions is okay, the actions at the top happen before the ones at the bottom; the Tracker happens after the Roleblocker so they can see the RB's move.

Also, I'll admit that reviewing this has been frustrating. I asked about the JOAT plenty of times last month and things seemed okay, but now it needs to be changed. And we made many arguments to why we believe the Strongman should not have 3-shots but I feel we were not being heard until Monkey had to compromise.

For what the JOAT can be, I will quote what I asked earlier:
Which one would you two be more okay with, Cop/Vig/Tracker, or Cop/Doctor/Tracker?

Anything other than that and I'd rather lose the JOAT entirely, "1-shot Aligment/2-shot motion detector" is such a weird combo that feels like it's made purely to balance a design rather than to make an interesting experience for the player.
 

Franconp

Frank
Pedro, the JOAT can't be a tracker if you want to have a scum tracker. One of the 2 has to go to avoid a counterclaim. I said motion detector because it's weaker than voyeur but it could be anything. I think the argument for that Is pretty solid.

And I think that we are also making a compromiso here. The town has 3 protective roles (unlimited doctor, JOAT and commuter) and a possible confirmed townie while scum only has 2 strong shots.

I'm thinking that the party host use his power D1 and is semi confirmed. Scum uses a strong shot. Doctor claims, scum again uses a strong shot because they don't know he can't self propect. Then cop claims, scum is out of shots to deal with the self protect.

The problem with giving the JOAT a vig shot Is that, if he hits scum, he is confirmed. And a confirmed cop is really OP. Actually both of those options are OP. A cop that can self heal and a cop that can be confirmed.

So an option would be to give scum a third strong shot to deal with him or to nerf him so he isn't so OP. Both of you are completely opposed to give scum a third shot so town must be nerfed.

Also, as I said before, if the strongman is lynched D1 scum is screwed with all those protective powers. They don't have a way to deal with the JOAT or the confirmed townie+doctor.

I think it should be ok if you change the JOAT for a 1-shot aligment cop only. With that you can solve the overlap of powers (2 trackers) and town having too many defensive powers (and there's no need to nerf the doctor or give more shots to scum).
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Also, monkey/Pedro, is there something special you wanted to do with the player character above all else? Because I feel you guys have a certain vision in mind with night talk/fruit vendor/clairvoyant.
No, we wanted something that made sense for the player characters. I will talk to Pedro about it before I make a big reply here, though, I think, to make sure we're on the same page.

The fruit vendor/messenger etc are there to balance the scum tracker. Useless/semi useful roles that visit so that the tracker isn't ONLY able to pick up on good PRs.
 

Franconp

Frank
The strongmand would bypass the roleblock?

Let me think about the bus driver. A scum bus driver is considered OP. There is no cop here so that would make it weaker but I want to check how he interact with the other roles.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
If after that you still think the bus driver is too strong, I guess we could lower it down to 1-shot.

Not sure on the strongman<->roleblock, will talk with monkey about it.
 

Pedro

The Last Airbender is actually a great movie
We talked and we think the Strongman wouldn't act, given blocking happens before killing, but we would refund the shot if that happened.
 

Franconp

Frank
I kinda disagree with that. A roleblock can work like an aligment cop when there is no kill.

A way to counter that is having the strong kill bypass the roleblock.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Can you please give me an example of a game in which a strong kill broke through a roleblock, because I've never seen that. A block stops an action.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
But this isn't what I asked, because if we just want to throw links around, I can link Mafia Universe that lists a roleSTOPPER (one game) that a strongman ignores, and a roleBLOCKER (many, many games) that it does not, because it stops a visit, period.

I asked about our games. And if we're going back to Ace Attorney to see this... is that really a game we want to emulate? But the real question I have is: why do you want the strongman to bypass a block? Can this be mitigated by just making the rb x-shot?

Or, to expand more, just generally - why is the strong kill such a focus for you here? There are other ways to strengthen scum if you think they are comparatively weak. It's one of the reasons we changed to a bus driver. I guess I'm not understanding why this one thing has become such a big focus.
 
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Franconp

Frank
Monkey Mafia universe also says that a strongman isn't affected by a roleblock:

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/database/mafia-roles/role/?mafiarole=Strongman

And epic mafia says the same:

https://epicmafia.com/role/2637

And this is not about our games. This is about being consistant with the definitions of all the biggest mafia roles database in the internet. If you have a newbie player, or not so newbie, that gets the role and he decides to Google it he will get those results. And he will make decisions based on that.

And I'm not focusing on that. It doesn't a big impact balance wise (it helps town but it's marginal). I don't mind if you want to use it like that but then you should tell the players that the role will work differently from what they can find googling it.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Okay, fine, I give. I think it's dumb, but whatever, if that's how it goes everywhere, that's how it goes. I think I just find it really frustrating that you presented it as a "do you want x or y" situation when you could have just said "okay, but consider that y is the case here - is that how you envisioned it?"

Like it was never an option, really. And yeah, it really does feel like you've focused most of this on beefing up the strong kill, which I don't get at all. I've played in several games where the strongman goes down early for bad play, so if you think mafia is weak compared to town, it should be more of a big picture thing, yeah? And here's how I see that picture:

Neutral-outside of consideration

Essentially 14 town (two are lovers)
4 mafia

Mafia can potentially find two PRs, can interfere in others
Mafia has two strong shots

Town: roleblocker has higher chance of impacting town than anything else

Party Host can confirm self
Friendly Neighbor can potentially confirm self
Lovers will probably claim but that will lead to eventual death so confirmed for maybe 1 full phase

Strong priority targets are:
Doctor (but now only x shot)
Confirmed town
Lovers

What do you need here to feel like it's balanced?
 

Franconp

Frank
Right now, nothing. I like the new design.

The only thing that I want to check more carefully is the bus driver. Scum bus drivers are considered OP but in this game town doesn't have informative powers so it should be ok.

But I won't do it today. I just got home late from work and there is a blackout, it's hot as hell and the game of mafia that I'm playing is driving me nuts. So I will try to check it tomorrow, if I have electricity (fingers crossed).
 

Franconp

Frank
I just double checked. I find the bus driver OK. It can bring chaos but I don't see him breaking the game.

Worst case scenario for town is lylo in D5. Worst case scenario for scum would be D4. Both of them unlikely. Even if they are in either scenario the clairvoyant still have a chance of winning the game.

I'm ok with the design.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
lol it's been a while since i used that name

But in terms of the game, my slight worry for the clairvoyant is getting the correct lynch and not choosing someone that could die at night
Do you just mean it will be hard or...?
 

Franconp

Frank
I had the same role in Arkham and it gets easier when there are less players. By the end he was hitting regulary.

Will you allow him to use his role N0?
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
I would like to allow the wizard to do that, yes, and Pedro agrees. It'll be a shot in the dark but it might get them strategizing.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Arkham was a little bigger, even! (it was one of the first games I ever read, so I remember it fairly well).
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Should we get these PMs up and going now, or do we need to hammer at this a little more?
 

Franconp

Frank
I would change the Party host command to a day command. That way everyone will know that they can talk during the next phase. I'm worried of the player using their command and people not checking the game after the flip so they miss it.

I also would delete from the Fruit vendor PM the part about the fruit doing nothing. It's more interesting if they don't know if the fruit have some other uses besides messing with a tracker.

Also would make clear in the Strongman PM that the command is only a modifier and not an extra kill. Telling they in scum chat could work too.

The rest are good.
 

Franconp

Frank
I would change the Party host command to a day command. That way everyone will know that they can talk during the next phase. I'm worried of the player using their command and people not checking the game after the flip so they miss it.

Another idea: Have the command posted during the day, answer only "command accepted" and then announce that they can talk during the night phase when you post the flip.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
will you clarify the posting time restrictions of the party host (2 hours before day start)

can the fruit vendor send to the same person multiple times in a row?

haven't paid too much attention to doctor role PMs, but do they usually say they prevent any kills?
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
I put in the last 12 hours of the day phase - will that work? Keeps them from doing it early and making that the biggest topic of discussion. Or should it just be any time during the day phase?

Adjusted doctor language.

Fruit vendor can keep sending to same.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
i meant more of how much time before day start during the night phase will everybody be allowed to post (i didn't care when they would actually post the command), but i assume it is until night actions are locked
 
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