Grizzly-Today at 10:27 PM
let's start with this one:
"At first glance, Town seems a little weak in the PR department. LR, Override, and potentially vig can all be negative utility."
I think removing LR at the very least is fine - in original design it was a tracker, but that was too close to the vanilla cop
so I changed it without thinking much
Hecht-Today at 10:28 PM
Right
Grizzly-Today at 10:28 PM
however, I'm struggling to coming up with a town role to replace it that would make town stronger
without adding another investigative that is too close to the vanilla cop
Hecht-Today at 10:29 PM
Hmm
Grizzly-Today at 10:30 PM
right now the game has two potential vig shots - the initial one, and the possible extra shot from price is right modifier
but those 2 + the potential bomb kill means there is only 3 extra kills
Hecht-Today at 10:31 PM
Maybe a BP?
Grizzly-Today at 10:31 PM
in a game of 27
1-shot bp, sure
that could also block vigi shots
don't remember if we usually let bp block strongman
Hecht-Today at 10:33 PM
Depends on how “strong” you make it. Usually they do, it’s up to you if they get through if Say a BP is protected by a doctor also
Grizzly-Today at 10:33 PM
hm
Hecht-Today at 10:33 PM
Either it’s through one layer of protection or all layers
Probably would go with all layers, since it’s one-shot
Grizzly-Today at 10:34 PM
I'll go with all layers
do you think with that change, town is still left weak?
Hecht-Today at 10:36 PM
I mean the negative utility ones are only “sorta” negative. They could also be really positive. Town just usually sucks. I think it’s probably close enough now
Grizzly-Today at 10:36 PM
okay
let's talk about the cult next then
since that seems to be (for a good reason) a major topic for this game
do you think cult has too many recruitment shots, or that they need something else for adjustment?
Hecht-Today at 10:38 PM
I think the number is fine since it’s RNG
Grizzly-Today at 10:38 PM
well rng as in "players vote"
Hecht-Today at 10:38 PM
Right. But it’s not controllable by the cult I mean
Grizzly-Today at 10:38 PM
yeah
there are no hijack roles in the like of "you can force what modifier is chosen"
the cult isn't told directly what modifiers lead to cult shots, only direct clue is that their flavor is they are game balancers
*reviewers
Hecht-Today at 10:40 PM
Right
Grizzly-Today at 10:40 PM
to get back to this post
https://www.outermafia.com/index.php?posts/32668/
while at N3 it is
8 Town 6 Scum 4 Cultists 1 Neutral
scum still needs to defeat cult and vice versa
Hecht-Today at 10:42 PM
Right. It’s not really a sweep
Grizzly-Today at 10:42 PM
not in my eyes, but I am biased as designer
I think my WCS's in post 2 should be correct, but I could have miscalculated somewhere
Hecht-Today at 10:45 PM
Those seem fine. I was mostly talking about getting a Town win
Which seems...rough
Grizzly-Today at 10:45 PM
hmm
I do want to keep the cult, mostly because I finally want to see a game where it properly works (
shoves quarantine to some dark pits)
but maybe cult and/or the game modifiers need some re-adjustments
Hecht-Today at 10:47 PM
I don’t think that’s really an issue. The only thing I’m thinking is that town’s best chance of winning is if scum and the cult target each other
Grizzly-Today at 10:47 PM
well, those two factions do need to that to win
Hecht-Today at 10:49 PM
Cult targeting scum doesn’t help them though
Grizzly-Today at 10:49 PM
that's true
maybe the penalty for targeting scum is too harsh - but I'm not sure what a good compensation could be
because they can't be able to recruit scum for obvious reasons
Hecht-Today at 10:50 PM
I mean it does tell them that that player is most likely scum.
Or they were blocked or there was a commuter
Grizzly-Today at 10:50 PM
I was thinking of adding a town pr that is basically
vanilla but cannot be recruited
Hecht-Today at 10:51 PM
I don’t think cult needs nerfing
Grizzly-Today at 10:51 PM
alright
do you think 6 scum is a good number for 27? Royal commented earlier it felt bit high
but I disagreed on that
Hecht-Today at 10:54 PM
I think it is fine. The cult knows who other cultists are so it makes sense for scum to be a little higher
I dunno what to do about town here. It’s probably just paranoia
---removed some offtopic discussion from the middle---
Grizzly-Today at 10:57 PM
so if the roles are now mostly fine outside paranoia about town (not sure what can be helped there)
the list of modifiers should be discussed
Royal said that he doesn't think the first day modifier should be RNG'd, and I agree
so I need to write a specific modifier for D1
Hecht-Today at 10:58 PM
Yeah
Also
Grizzly-Today at 10:59 PM
but before that, any glaring issues with modifiers as they are now?
Hecht-Today at 10:59 PM
Are you gonna be a hardass on post counts? Cause if not then I dunno about that post restriction PR
Grizzly-Today at 11:00 PM
I was thinking of putting down a rule that if you ignore the restriction of the day/break the rule
your vote for that day won't be counted at the end
Hecht-Today at 11:02 PM
That could work
Grizzly-Today at 11:03 PM
I added that as extra note next to the restriction-ignorer rule
also, while the role can ignore the post restiction of cthulu
they still have to abide by that "first vote is locked" modifier
at the start of either NX or Cthulu day, they are PM'd with direct rules to avoid confusion
Hecht-Today at 11:05 PM
Gotcha
Grizzly-Today at 11:05 PM
any modifiers that should be edited/removed altogether?
I edited the dark souls modifier - nothing happens if it's triggered during mylo/lylo
or game could end unfairly
Hecht-Today at 11:10 PM
Yeah
No they seem fine
Grizzly-Today at 11:11 PM
that leaves with game modifier for D1
it could simply be a normal D1, but I guess it couldn't 100% hurt to have something slightly modified from the usual
Hecht-Today at 11:12 PM
Everyone’s vote counts double
Grizzly-Today at 11:13 PM
lol, that would basically be dark souls modifier
except the majority needed is 50% from usual
hmmm
I was thinking first of using the first game as flavor, but not lot of people remember that, and we don't need people asking links to gaf just to get it
that's actually one topic I wanted to discuss - most of the games as modifiers were originally played in gaf
is that ok?
I'm not going to link to those games or anything, obviously
Hecht-Today at 11:20 PM
It’s fine
As long as it’s not like “lol amir0x played in the first one” and whatnot
Grizzly-Today at 11:20 PM
alright
still not going to use the first game as flavor, though
Hecht-Today at 11:21 PM
K
Grizzly-Today at 11:21 PM
trying to think of that D1 modifier for now
since that seems to be the last point that needs to be settled before I'll start to write role pm's (and poking royal, hehe)
Hecht-Today at 11:22 PM
How about voting for a captain that day who chooses the lynch
Grizzly-Today at 11:22 PM
hmm, yeah
I remember that idea was being balled at one point (I discussed it with Kark as potential idea of how death note mafia could work)(edited)
(vote for the person who gets to use death note at the end of day)
Hecht-Today at 11:23 PM
Heh
Grizzly-Today at 11:23 PM
after his... experiment
slightly failed
I think that's a good idea for D1. The game name can be a non-existent future game as well
like mcdonalds and bar 2 mafias
Hecht-Today at 11:24 PM
Quarantine
We did that on D1
Grizzly-Today at 11:24 PM
did we?
I kind of blocked that game out of memory
for sanity reasons
Hecht-Today at 11:25 PM
Yeah didn’t we vote for a commander d1? I think it was melon
Grizzly-Today at 11:25 PM
i'll check
at least on d1 start it just says "vote for director" with no info on what it does
but oh well, I can still use quarantine as flavor
I added a D1 modifier to the first page of doc
does it sound fine or does it need tweaking?
Hecht-Today at 11:30 PM
Sounds fine
Grizzly-Today at 11:30 PM
ok
I guess that's... everything?
Hecht-Today at 11:30 PM
Yeah I think we’re at the “good enough” point
Grizzly-Today at 11:30 PM
it'll need flush's ok, and you both to read role pm's
pms
I'll put this discussion to the review thread then
Hecht-Today at 11:31 PM
K