MU Finals Spec Thread - More Fun Than a Barrel of Monkeys!
- Thread starter Natiko
- Start date
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Hi.
I'm pretty current on the thread but I usually just skim everyone else and only focus on Monkey's posts. The first thing is to I try to figure out is whether she is town or not. Still too early for that.
There are A LOT of posts. You could skip over Day 1 with little issue. It is hard to gain any real insight just watching but once there is a flip and you see people trying to link actions together and the most important posts from Day 1 tend to get brought up later anyway.
For this game there is a strange dynamic in that a lot of players from Monkey's previous game are in this one. JackofHearts, Grit, Fuggles, Zarathustra and Darkmanticorex. Given many players are almost completely unfamiliar with each other mafia could either try and break that block or play into the paranoia of getting beaten by the same mafia group.
I'm pretty current on the thread but I usually just skim everyone else and only focus on Monkey's posts. The first thing is to I try to figure out is whether she is town or not. Still too early for that.
There are A LOT of posts. You could skip over Day 1 with little issue. It is hard to gain any real insight just watching but once there is a flip and you see people trying to link actions together and the most important posts from Day 1 tend to get brought up later anyway.
For this game there is a strange dynamic in that a lot of players from Monkey's previous game are in this one. JackofHearts, Grit, Fuggles, Zarathustra and Darkmanticorex. Given many players are almost completely unfamiliar with each other mafia could either try and break that block or play into the paranoia of getting beaten by the same mafia group.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Also, I think based on my very not thorough skim I’d probably be voting Fable if I were I the game. I thought Jack v Zara felt town v town, but Jack’s recent de-escalation was weird and would make me keep an eye on him. Monkey seems like she hit a bit more of a stride this time.
Verelios
Were-elios
That's an interesting setup. It could lead to some wild plays as the days go on.For those who are not familiar with the setup.
There are 10 possible setups. Mafia know from their roles which column they are in while Town PRs don't the make up of the mafia team they do know what other possible PRs are available for town.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Having skimmed a few games the consensus meta seems to be that you only claim if you are getting lynched unless you are the vigilante where you should claim on day 2 to co-ordinate the shot.
In the other wildcard game the mafia role cop got lynched day 1 so everyone knew the game was in column 2 then the vigilante claimed on day 2. A second mafia was going to be lynched so they fake claimed JOAT knowing they would get countered and out a Town PR. A Voyeur countered them, then they confirmed what claim was true by asking everyone if confirm/deny they were the Motion Detector. When no one claimed the role they 100% caught mafia in the fake JOAT.
It wasn't all bad for mafia. They got the Voyeur to claim and were able to tell from reactions who the 3rd PR, Jailkeeper, was since that role immediately knew what claim was real/fake.
If you read the setup threads they talked about wanting PRs since that is a big part of forum mafia but not wanting the game to hinge on them which is why most the roles are pretty weak. Tracker, Motion Detector, Voyeur are all super weak information roles. Jailkeeper instead of Doctor to make it less optimal to protect PRs. Whether all these setups are actually balanced is debatable and how useful the mafia role cop actually is.
Time to skim the 20 pages I missed...
Sawneeks
little green dog
Yeah, think playing the last game and going into this one helped her out a bunch.
Bleh, that was a mess EoD for town. Buffy’s posts about her inability to keep up with the thread were such a big red flag. Really not sure how you can read that progression and continue on the wagon.
The “self preservation” vote at the end was really low quality though, so can’t fault those late vote switches.
The “self preservation” vote at the end was really low quality though, so can’t fault those late vote switches.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, I’m not in love with this setup, but I would have preferred this to last year’s lol Probably better than giving town a strong role.
I wish I had more time to keep up with the thread. What does everyone think the chances of myc being scum are? The Buffy lynch didn’t seem like the best decision. A lot of the votes were really weak too with little explanation, going off feels, or just flip flopping stances with no explanation. Secondhand Revenant looks so bad in that regard that it loops back around to make me question if scum would actually be so blatant. Curious to see who gets got tonight.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Reading EoD it felt like two town wagons where neither player was adequately defending themselves. People calling Buffy's last second self preservation vote scummy was strange. People never like that move but it is always the right play to save yourself as town.
The last second switch from Secondhand Revenant changng the lynch is going to be something a lot of people dig into. They were scum reading Buffy and myc but wanted to give Buffy a day. It is a very scummy positioning to give himself an out to switch between the top wagons. I guess the other attempt to save scum!myc was people trying to move to Jack and essentially bait Monkey to move off myc. The three people who voted for Jack were Secondhand Revenant, Ampharos and Zarathustra. And they all voted Buffy. And they had all previously voted for myc at some point.
So there is a narrative where team mates saved myc.
If mafia did save myc or just want to push that narrative they will kill someone town read on the other wagon. SilverKeith is where I think the kill will go but Monkey and Cobalt are possible. So it could be a short game for Monkey.
The last second switch from Secondhand Revenant changng the lynch is going to be something a lot of people dig into. They were scum reading Buffy and myc but wanted to give Buffy a day. It is a very scummy positioning to give himself an out to switch between the top wagons. I guess the other attempt to save scum!myc was people trying to move to Jack and essentially bait Monkey to move off myc. The three people who voted for Jack were Secondhand Revenant, Ampharos and Zarathustra. And they all voted Buffy. And they had all previously voted for myc at some point.
So there is a narrative where team mates saved myc.
If mafia did save myc or just want to push that narrative they will kill someone town read on the other wagon. SilverKeith is where I think the kill will go but Monkey and Cobalt are possible. So it could be a short game for Monkey.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, I could see them offing Monkey assuming she’s town. Could also depend on if they think she’s going to tunnel on someone town and leave them alone for now though. The Buffy lynch instead of Myc just gives me bad feelings because of how weak the arguments against Buffy were while it felt there was at least a more solid argument for myc, but instead you get a good chunk of Buffy votes without really diving into the details. I do wonder if myc was scum and perhaps they were already piled on Buffy so they were hoping to bait a town player to swing it hence the snipes over the self preservation vote. It’s always dicey to lynch the counter wagon, especially day one though. Don’t want to just default to easy lynches.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Not much happening from a Monkey viewing perspective. Technical issues like forgetting a laptop charger hasn't helped.
I am going out on a limb and saying she is town 100% and if I have been fooled then good job.
There is a current conversation about SilverKeith's death and the obvious explanation seems to have been overlooked. He was the most town on the opposite lynch train. Weird interactions with that. Beruru said he was not likely to be protected and now Zara is pushing Keith's read so near the end of day. I think Zara is mafia and I think Jack is mafia with him.
This would make myc town.
I am going out on a limb and saying she is town 100% and if I have been fooled then good job.
There is a current conversation about SilverKeith's death and the obvious explanation seems to have been overlooked. He was the most town on the opposite lynch train. Weird interactions with that. Beruru said he was not likely to be protected and now Zara is pushing Keith's read so near the end of day. I think Zara is mafia and I think Jack is mafia with him.
This would make myc town.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Didn’t read much of the last day phase - too damn busy trying to finish up things at the house. Myc being scum checks out. Hope Fable is too, but having not read a huge chunk of posts I’m not even going to try and throw out any additional reads past what I already made lol
I did see Monkey doing her best Cabot impression though lol
I did see Monkey doing her best Cabot impression though lol
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Another dead Power Role for town. Just the vigilante left. Guess I was wrong on Zara.
I was expecting a claim on day 2 but I guess they are hanging on for day 4 to try and make the number of players odd for the last phases and not have to no lynch. Monkey could be the vigilante. Shooting Zara makes sense for her in some ways. There is no way mafia shot Zara right? And SR got shot for his late save on myc day 1?
Here is the monkey is scum paranoia. Her votes for myc come when he was already close to death. She voted to put him close to being lynched. It is possible she is a late busser on both occassions.
I was expecting a claim on day 2 but I guess they are hanging on for day 4 to try and make the number of players odd for the last phases and not have to no lynch. Monkey could be the vigilante. Shooting Zara makes sense for her in some ways. There is no way mafia shot Zara right? And SR got shot for his late save on myc day 1?
Here is the monkey is scum paranoia. Her votes for myc come when he was already close to death. She voted to put him close to being lynched. It is possible she is a late busser on both occassions.
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If she was bussing myc she did a good job, despite coming in rather late she seems clear on that.
She’s being slightly glossed over right now as other players take the front stage and don’t pay much attention to her pushes. I don’t think she’s used to that at all.
When I was scum most of my pushes against other players were largely ignored and never really got traction. Not betting on it, but this could be what’s happening with Monkey right now.
She’s being slightly glossed over right now as other players take the front stage and don’t pay much attention to her pushes. I don’t think she’s used to that at all.
When I was scum most of my pushes against other players were largely ignored and never really got traction. Not betting on it, but this could be what’s happening with Monkey right now.
D1 a vanilla townie was lynched after some tumbling and last minute switches at EoD.
N1 town’s role blocker was killed.
Town decided to clear the counter wagon from D1 and lynched myc who was a mafia goon. MU meta of discussing possible shot was followed and people openly discussed who should be shot.
N2 another widely town read vanilla town was NK and the vig ended up shotting anothe town PR (IIRC a voyeur?).
D3 had many wagons going on during the day, at one point there was a 4-way tie vote with 3 votes each. In the end they mislynched another vanilla A lot of doubts on the counter wagon again.
N1 town’s role blocker was killed.
Town decided to clear the counter wagon from D1 and lynched myc who was a mafia goon. MU meta of discussing possible shot was followed and people openly discussed who should be shot.
N2 another widely town read vanilla town was NK and the vig ended up shotting anothe town PR (IIRC a voyeur?).
D3 had many wagons going on during the day, at one point there was a 4-way tie vote with 3 votes each. In the end they mislynched another vanilla A lot of doubts on the counter wagon again.
Got the creeping feeling that beruru is scum and is just obscenely posting A LOT for town creed. I might have lost something important along the way, but I don’t see anything that could really clear him, so despite some overall weak reads and pushes, he’s still very town read.
He defended Ampharos and Fable openly and I think he can get away with it. If Fable flips red I’d really push this through.
I expect Cobalt to get murdered this night and maintain the status quo of yesterday; people will try to clear the one of the counter wagons again. Probably Fable’s.
He defended Ampharos and Fable openly and I think he can get away with it. If Fable flips red I’d really push this through.
I expect Cobalt to get murdered this night and maintain the status quo of yesterday; people will try to clear the one of the counter wagons again. Probably Fable’s.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
That end of day was hard to follow when skimming. A large number of votes and possible lynch targets near the end of the day didn't seem ideal for town.
I also expect Cobalt to die unless the mafia team are hunting for the vigilante who will almost certainly claim openly tomorrow.
I also expect Cobalt to die unless the mafia team are hunting for the vigilante who will almost certainly claim openly tomorrow.
I agree. Interestingly Cobalt openly “praised” the vig shot at the start of the day while everyone else criticized it. Unsure if it’s a lead to follow, but at the very least it’s a WIFOM mafia will have to account.
Verelios
Were-elios
Wow, very messy. I'm going to hop back on today and see what's going to drop.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I think it'll be pretty close. I would lean towards a town win, but that's because I think Fable is scum and between that the Vig being able to clear off another question mark they should be in good shape (or vice versa if they lynch elsewhere and have the vig shoot Fable). I personally would land on lynching Fable though. Too many scum left right now that could lead town to a bad lynch.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I have no idea because my reads are all over the place. I don't see anyone in the game that is 100% clear right now. And if they lynch incorrectly and shoot incorrectly they are in MYLO.
I don't get why the vigilante hasn't claimed. Literally everyone is suspect in some ways. Today town has 2 kills, better to make them with the most information available than have 1 person confirmed with 7 players left. To me it seems that only Cobalt, Jack or Monkey are possible to be the vigilante. Since Fuggles, Fable, Amy, Grit, Adrian and Dark have all had votes on them it seems unlikely they wouldn't take the opportunity to just claim and get any suspicion out of the way.
Mafia are probably going to work it out in the night.
But then town could lynch and shoot correctly and we are down to 1 mafia.
Today is so crucial.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Well Wolf 2 down.
Cobalt being the vig is not a shock. But both me and Fandorin were expecting him to die on night 3. In that situation he never gets the second shot off and town lose a kill. The Quixma kill feels really strange now.
If Beru did heavily suspect Cobalt as vig why didn't she kill him as Mafia? I guess the answer is to clear themself and win the game. They also attacked Monkey yesterday which would have put pressure on Monkey to out as vig, just in case the Cobalt read was wrong.
Then they were the one who outright said to leave Fable for the vig instead of the lynch. Fable was dead anyway, if Cobalt dies night 3 they lynch Fable day 4. If town had just lynched Fable and 100% confirmed him then Cobalt has a much higher chance of shooting a second Mafia last night or feels free to take a riskier shot like he did with Zara.
Although when I spectate games I always gravitate to the more outlandish scenarios.
Cobalt being the vig is not a shock. But both me and Fandorin were expecting him to die on night 3. In that situation he never gets the second shot off and town lose a kill. The Quixma kill feels really strange now.
If Beru did heavily suspect Cobalt as vig why didn't she kill him as Mafia? I guess the answer is to clear themself and win the game. They also attacked Monkey yesterday which would have put pressure on Monkey to out as vig, just in case the Cobalt read was wrong.
Then they were the one who outright said to leave Fable for the vig instead of the lynch. Fable was dead anyway, if Cobalt dies night 3 they lynch Fable day 4. If town had just lynched Fable and 100% confirmed him then Cobalt has a much higher chance of shooting a second Mafia last night or feels free to take a riskier shot like he did with Zara.
Although when I spectate games I always gravitate to the more outlandish scenarios.
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It’s actually funny that Cobalt was the vig. It was a easy pick for scum and even so they didn’t go for it. Unsure if Quixima progression would do much for town, so they played badly there.
Anyway, Monkey can still be scum. Might be I lost a few posts on D3 and D4, but I get the feeling she tried to side step Fable and pushed for other lynches. If beruru flips town then it’s hard to defend her from where I’m coming from on the game.
Anyway, Monkey can still be scum. Might be I lost a few posts on D3 and D4, but I get the feeling she tried to side step Fable and pushed for other lynches. If beruru flips town then it’s hard to defend her from where I’m coming from on the game.
Sawneeks
little green dog
monkey made me triple pinky swear on threat of death not to tell anyone her alignment so i gotta sit out of this
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Definitely scum then.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
The general idea is that the vigilate is an extra town kill but any chump can roll vig so adding some direction to the shot is useful. It is also a good way to exert pressure on someone. "I think the vig should shoot X tonight" makes people who might be coasting work harder in their play. It also somewhat forces mafia to make a definitive read rather than hide stuff in lists.
If the vig was reading the game wrong they were going to shoot wrong anyway. Better to get advice from your strong town reads than get no opinions.
Definitely not familiar with the MU meta, but from what I’ve seen these two games it’s pretty much what Faddy said. The idea is to use the shot as a extra kill and with as much input from others as possible. That gets tasty reads and puts some hard pressure on the chosen target, who might be able to clear himself or out someone else.
Interesting that they discussed this in D2 even before it was confirmed that their game had a vigilante, and that with the open set ups that the Championship has, it’s impossible to have a mafia vigilante or serial killer fake claiming it, so it’s a safe move in here.
Sawneeks
little green dog
Welp, I’d vote for Moneky hard over Adrian there. His last posts in the phase were unfocused and felt like he wanted to throw out as much content he could. Monkey kept her progression on players, mostly Adrian, and went for a more defensive approach.
On the “scum! Monkey” train right now
On the “scum! Monkey” train right now
Sawneeks
little green dog
would beruru openly defend a scum!monkey like this though?
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Monkey has done great. Everyone we've sent (not counting having to replace in lol..) has done great. Sorian, Ty, Monkey. None have put in a bad performance.
I can see it. Beru is pushing the innocent and “final mislynch” townie angle for a long time, defending Monkey at it is would still be a believable mistake if she flips scum.
It’s a risky stance for sure, but if Ampharos gets convinced the game is over.
Monkey is awesome. She’s actually playing two completely different mafia games at the same time, and doing it well.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Yes because she needs a reason to be alive. If it is Monkey/Beruru as mafia they are trying to get Amy mislynched to win the game. Then in my mind she kills Fuggles leaving herself between Dark and Amy
I found out I love Monkey’s scum game. Being on her team on the Power Rangers game, I hasn’ really thought about it but she’s incredibly versatile and can adapt to the current game state with ease, playing it safe or making cases out of thin air if when she needs to.
This makes her a really hard player to trip up (due props to Brazil here).
This makes her a really hard player to trip up (due props to Brazil here).
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
You did a great job from what I was able to keep up with. Well done on bringing the win home!
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Now I see Manti as wolf he did the exact same thing as the qualifier.
He just never dies lol
I read wolf chat and that seems so stressful. The amount of flips on who was being killed was amazing. The logic behind the Jack kill was mindbending stuff.
I still don't get why people wanted the vigi to shoot fable instead of just lynching him.
He just never dies lol
I read wolf chat and that seems so stressful. The amount of flips on who was being killed was amazing. The logic behind the Jack kill was mindbending stuff.
I still don't get why people wanted the vigi to shoot fable instead of just lynching him.
That last day I just played to the room. It was intense. And *I* couldn't keep up with that volume!
Faddy: WE HAD SO MUCH TO WEIGH. We wanted to win there but we also wanted to set Dark up if we didn't. My brain hurt. Eventually I started to be like I DON'T CARE KILL SOMEONE
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Wasted day with no voting record information because lol none of it is AI
I think Fable kinda admitted that was his attempt, to avoid any voting record when he knew he'd be lynched.
Hey everyone! Are you all pumped for finals on the 13th?
Monkey’s done a great job for ya’ll. I’ve really enjoyed playing with her.
Might hop in some games here when this whole event is finally over.
Monkey’s done a great job for ya’ll. I’ve really enjoyed playing with her.
Might hop in some games here when this whole event is finally over.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
We'd be glad to have you! Monkey has been great though. And to think she begrudgingly agreed to do it since no one was really volunteering initially :P
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
You act like it's that much pressure! It's not like any of us went over there in the past and made a complete fool of themselves.
lol :(
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
It was perfect. So good they had to mislynch me for the town loss the final day because they were jealous.
The real reason for the bad results are probably more a mix of me being unprepared to go as I was just backup and Ty had done his time, having to sub into a huge ass thread and having to rely on mainly voting data as a result of skimming so much, and a player using an emotional appeal that I don’t think ever would have flown in our community.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, it involved not only emotion but language barriers and had me so convinced. RIP
New accounts are getting approved within a day now. It's pretty chill.
Yeah, but not everyone has an appropriate e-mail address. :/