Fanto
Confirmed Town
It seems like some of the most active periods in the game so far have been while I'm asleep. I kind of feel like Stan haha.
Spectator Thread Home away from hell
- Thread starter Fanto
- Start date
Verelios
Were-elios
Town be like that sometimes
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Between Zeke, Fire and Swamped is at minimum 1 scum. Votes don't lie.
Now we are out of spoilers let me just highlight Gorlak's post. Always on the ball in spec.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I don't think it is actually necessary for scum to get the SK lynched today. This is with perfect knowledge
The most vital thing for mafia is to identify the SK and shoot them. Even though Swamped won't die the game will move from 7 alive to 5. If there are still 2 mafia alive at that point they are heavy favourites to take the game. They can lynch a town and then shoot swamped again, and with Swamped shot it will take it to 1v1 at best and a mafia win
Swamped really needs to get mafia lynched today or shoot one of them in the night.
For town it is pretty simple, they need to get either the SK today then 2 scum in the next days -OR- hope the mafia and SK target each other (which is what they should be doing to enhance their own win conditions)
The most vital thing for mafia is to identify the SK and shoot them. Even though Swamped won't die the game will move from 7 alive to 5. If there are still 2 mafia alive at that point they are heavy favourites to take the game. They can lynch a town and then shoot swamped again, and with Swamped shot it will take it to 1v1 at best and a mafia win
Swamped really needs to get mafia lynched today or shoot one of them in the night.
For town it is pretty simple, they need to get either the SK today then 2 scum in the next days -OR- hope the mafia and SK target each other (which is what they should be doing to enhance their own win conditions)
Yeah town seems to be in a rough spot, but a combination of lunching mafia - Sparks has been floated as an option for a while now - and Swamped hitting a meanie at night could put them in a pretty good spot tomorrow. So, as pointed out, anyone could win.
Thing is, Zeke has been posting a lot. And the more he posts, the more material he's giving out to draw connections, as Monkey said. Talking of that;
Of course you didn't mean this - you only said suspect - but this could be interpreted as town!Zeke hardly being right.
Do you have other indicators of town!Zeke's play? Like, he played Maple Street and read so suspicious, but ended being town. So he has to be extra weird for me to look there.
Thing is, Zeke has been posting a lot. And the more he posts, the more material he's giving out to draw connections, as Monkey said. Talking of that;
Of course you didn't mean this - you only said suspect - but this could be interpreted as town!Zeke hardly being right.
Do you have other indicators of town!Zeke's play? Like, he played Maple Street and read so suspicious, but ended being town. So he has to be extra weird for me to look there.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Yeah, a 2-2-1 is a pretty good spot for the Mafia assuming it happens due to hitting Swamped's BP Vest.
Vote out Swamped, they win immediately. Vote out Town, shoot Swamped again, they win. And even if Mafia gets voted out, as long as they shoot Swamped and she shoots Town thinking they are Scum, then Mafia wins 1-1, right?
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I mean, who was Town Zeke right about in Maple Street? :P
But anyways, indicators for Town Zeke to me are just a more stubborn attitude in general I suppose? Like Monkey was pointing out in that post, he was voting for FB all day yesterday, but his actual posts were all over the place. Things didn't line up, Zeke already knew that FB was Scum, he wanted to join that train early and keep his vote there all nice and cozy just in case.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
2-2-1 is good for mafia.
3-1-1 is good for town.
2-1-1 is the best for the SK where they lynch town, mafia shoots town and sk shoots mafia.
I need to look up what we said for 1 town, 2 mafia, 1 sk. I think mafia win if they get a lynch through on either town or sk since that gives them a majority. The right play is to no lynch but that gives the SK the win if they pick correctly in the night and the mafia the win if they pick incorrectly.
He should have been the day one vote tbh.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Does scum believe there is a SK
Scum knows there is an SK because they have 1-shot vigilante as a fake claim.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Does scum believe there is a SK
You'd be surprised, Zeke's most recent post in Scum chat is wondering if they can "win with the Neutral"
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
That is fair. It is a tough game from that perspective.
That was fun coming off a... 7 or 8 year hiatus. Wish my plan didn't immediately crumble after like, three hours into D1, lol. Could have made it easier on myself by being less active, but that's no fun in a new community.
I'm glad I was NK'd, gives town a better chance since they're not going to mislunch me now. Kinda rooting for Swamped, as someone who's won as SK, I know how hard it is to win a game.
It was 8 years ago, lol. The forum is dead now and then for some reason the corporate owners went and converted the whole thing to tapatalk recently so everything is broken as heck.
But here's the link if you wanted to try and read it. Or just the first posts or something. (yes, there's 16 thousand posts in this game)
https://forums.nsider2.com/pick-your-poison-warfare-of-vengeance-t388502.html
I'm glad I was NK'd, gives town a better chance since they're not going to mislunch me now. Kinda rooting for Swamped, as someone who's won as SK, I know how hard it is to win a game.
It was 8 years ago, lol. The forum is dead now and then for some reason the corporate owners went and converted the whole thing to tapatalk recently so everything is broken as heck.
But here's the link if you wanted to try and read it. Or just the first posts or something. (yes, there's 16 thousand posts in this game)
https://forums.nsider2.com/pick-your-poison-warfare-of-vengeance-t388502.html
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Welcome, Mao! I really hope you stick around here with us and play some more games. I'm looking forward to playing with you, as are a lot of other folks who were hanging out in here!
I just read the first few posts and holy shit lmao.
Yeah, I'll stick around! I've missed playing and ya'lls setups are interesting.
And, yeah, that game was our largest and also most dumb. (fun tho, everyone loved it)
Welcome! A bunch of us were so suspicious of you for that early gambit - maybe even a bit... salty, if that makes any sense - and although I'm not sure it worked as you expected it to, after using your command it became kind of clear you weren't a meanie.
Happy to hear you had fun and that you'll stick around.
Happy to hear you had fun and that you'll stick around.
I wanted suspicion so at least that worked, though I did not want to have to be so overt about it. Players kept calling me weird/shady but wouldn't vote me. I was kind of spinning my wheels trying to decide if I should change my plan for my role, or stick with it.
Was weird seeing people continue to suspect me after I used the power though, lol. I was positive scum was just continuing to drive that narrative because how easy it was.
turmoil7
Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
Lol seems like a fun read.
Fuck... Should have known about Zeke. Highlighted the right posts but didn't get to the correct conclusion. That ganging up on Kits was the red flag. Also the early Febe vote And obviously the not-tunneling on Febe.
I didn't pull all the way through. Sparks was likely partner but I couldn't figure out #3. Neither Stan nor Swamped looked like they were the missing puzzle and I brushed Zeke aside, meh. Wasting time with looking at other scenarios.
Swamped did good. If they lynch sparks today, town can win this. I trust them to figure this out. Hopefully with swamped shooting Zeke.
I didn't pull all the way through. Sparks was likely partner but I couldn't figure out #3. Neither Stan nor Swamped looked like they were the missing puzzle and I brushed Zeke aside, meh. Wasting time with looking at other scenarios.
Swamped did good. If they lynch sparks today, town can win this. I trust them to figure this out. Hopefully with swamped shooting Zeke.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I'll be interested to see what they do once the mass claim is out.
Zeke will be using the fake Restless Spirit claim, but he doesn't seem sure on how he is going to present the mechanics of it yet.
I'm guessing Sparks is going to claim as a Roleblocker, which is what he is. Otherwise he could try throwing out a 1-shot Vig claim, but I think the only night it would make sense to claim having used it is N1 on Vere, since it's possible he protected someone from another kill. Still doesn't explain why there have been two kills a night since then though.
As for everyone else, Swamped's Miller claim is going to look enticing here with this few players left. The Vanilla claim from Melon will also be enticing.
I don't think Rac, Stan, Kits, or Zeke will be voted out today.
So it's probably going to come down to Melon, Swamped, or Sparks today. 1 from each faction haha.
Zeke will be using the fake Restless Spirit claim, but he doesn't seem sure on how he is going to present the mechanics of it yet.
I'm guessing Sparks is going to claim as a Roleblocker, which is what he is. Otherwise he could try throwing out a 1-shot Vig claim, but I think the only night it would make sense to claim having used it is N1 on Vere, since it's possible he protected someone from another kill. Still doesn't explain why there have been two kills a night since then though.
As for everyone else, Swamped's Miller claim is going to look enticing here with this few players left. The Vanilla claim from Melon will also be enticing.
I don't think Rac, Stan, Kits, or Zeke will be voted out today.
So it's probably going to come down to Melon, Swamped, or Sparks today. 1 from each faction haha.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
If Mafia are sure there is a sk The best thing for Sparks to do is say he blocked who they think the SK is on night 1. Implying that they might be the reason for no n1 double kill.
Even if it outs Sparks as scum there is a chance to convince town about an SK today. Getting the SK is what Mafia should be working on.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, this would be the best play. It puts the weight on Zeke to win, but I mean.. he's their only real chance anyways. Can anyone imagine scum Sparks alone in lylo? lol
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I've really been impressed by Zeke this game as before the spoiler reveal I wasn't sure what to think of him so he was the only scum member that actually had me fooled.
To me it seems like he might be going after Swamped as the neutral hoping to maybe keep town from scumhunting a bit by focusing on whoever is doing these second kills.
Meanwhile Sparks is trying to make Kits look suspicious when no one else thinks she is. WELP.
To me it seems like he might be going after Swamped as the neutral hoping to maybe keep town from scumhunting a bit by focusing on whoever is doing these second kills.
Meanwhile Sparks is trying to make Kits look suspicious when no one else thinks she is. WELP.
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Fanto
Confirmed Town
Get them to kill Swamped today, shoot Rac or Stan tonight.
Final 3-2 LyLo would be Kits, Melon, and one of Rac or Stan vs. Zeke and Sparks.
Even if he loses Sparks in that spot, he can go to a 2-1 LyLo with like him, Melon, and Kits, and probably take out Melon with Kits for the win.
Final 3-2 LyLo would be Kits, Melon, and one of Rac or Stan vs. Zeke and Sparks.
Even if he loses Sparks in that spot, he can go to a 2-1 LyLo with like him, Melon, and Kits, and probably take out Melon with Kits for the win.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I was really surprised when I checked the thread. The last time I had, had been the night before so checking at 9pm only to see barely a page was definitely something.
Yeah idk, I feel you. Although for scum and Swamped it's better not to talk right now, at this point they might not even mass claim.
Let’s do both!
Fanto
Confirmed Town
It's the most believable fake claim they have, yeah.
Sparks asked what he should claim as, Zeke told him to go with the Vig claim, which I think is a bad idea. RB is technically NAI, especially in a Role Madness game, and especially in one where there is a third party killer, but of course, no one seems to have asked "Is this a Serial Killer doing the extra kills yet?" so whatever.
Rachel Amber being a Restless Spirit is so perfect, I almost wanted to put it in the game as a real role instead.
However, since it is Role Madness, I hope everyone remembers the #1 rule that we learned from Maple Street, which is that role claims mean almost nothing in the endgame state of a Role Madness game. They can help to narrow things down, maybe, but people can and will lie, and their claims may or may not be indicative of their alignment.
Fortunately for Zeke, I think he could have claimed almost anything and been fine here, considering how many town reads he has.
Also I love how Melon is just assuming my design is cruel. <3
Sparks asked what he should claim as, Zeke told him to go with the Vig claim, which I think is a bad idea. RB is technically NAI, especially in a Role Madness game, and especially in one where there is a third party killer, but of course, no one seems to have asked "Is this a Serial Killer doing the extra kills yet?" so whatever.
Rachel Amber being a Restless Spirit is so perfect, I almost wanted to put it in the game as a real role instead.
However, since it is Role Madness, I hope everyone remembers the #1 rule that we learned from Maple Street, which is that role claims mean almost nothing in the endgame state of a Role Madness game. They can help to narrow things down, maybe, but people can and will lie, and their claims may or may not be indicative of their alignment.
Fortunately for Zeke, I think he could have claimed almost anything and been fine here, considering how many town reads he has.
Also I love how Melon is just assuming my design is cruel. <3
a one shot vig who has multiple shots. yes, that makes sense. if Sparks makes it through the day somehow, Swamped will surely shoot him him during the night, right?
turmoil7
Imperial Corps Commander Who Cheers the Army
I
If I understood correctly, he only claimed to killing you? The n2 extra kill attributing to scum
That doesn't make much sense. He should have attempted to attribute the kill to a neutral party role which would have reinforced Zeke's argument that Swamped is faking her miller claim.
But I really think he'd been better off just claiming roleblocker.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Ok the terrible way mafia lose here (and town win) is Swamped thinking Zeke is the most likely town and she kills him to keep the game in balance but actually wipes out the scum team.
Potentially we can go to a final 5 with all mafia dead. And town have a spare lynch to policy lynch the miller claim...This situation was talked about in the game review.
Potentially we can go to a final 5 with all mafia dead. And town have a spare lynch to policy lynch the miller claim...This situation was talked about in the game review.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Yeah, she's walking a tightrope with the numbers game here for sure. Too many Town left alive, she's gunna get policy'd, too many Scum left alive, they'll hit majority before she can win.
Well, in this community a roleblocker is a scum role 95% of the time.
@Fantomas re: designing - you provided teams with fake roles to claim, right? What were the opinions in review? Do we have a game where this was done before? Just to have a better understanding and for comparison. It's a huge aspect of how this game plays out in my opinion. So when someone claims vig, scum knows immediatly they are lying? Swamped never had that option? I'm just trying to gauge the pros and cons for... ehm... secret projects.
What made you think Zeke is dirty?
I don't remember exactly, but I think @Verelios, you assumed swamped wasn't town? Why? Meta?
Verelios
Were-elios
The late vote D1 and then her actions leading up to it were off to me. That put her above Fire and Malus in my scum list. They made me suspicious, and afterwards she kept confirming that suspicion.
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cabot
Why.
yikes, that's a costly mistake there.
Stan too busy seeing red to see the Role PM.
Swamped has to kill him, he's the only role that could confirm a SK. Admittedly, if another night with 2 kills pass it should be soft confirmed, but we've seen the players who remain, there are some who would go with the insane option.
Stan too busy seeing red to see the Role PM.
Swamped has to kill him, he's the only role that could confirm a SK. Admittedly, if another night with 2 kills pass it should be soft confirmed, but we've seen the players who remain, there are some who would go with the insane option.
It's because it's a role madness game, scum can't claim vanilla so they have to have some roles not in the game to claim. It was also done in Conspiracy. As a reviewer I thought it was fair, although didn't like the choice of the Miller too much, and I don't remember what I said about the vig but I don't like that one much either.
It hurts to watch this. I mean, I know I have knowledge from this thread but if I had to choose between Zeke and Stan, It'd be Zeke.
Stans frustration and the way he words this is pretty legit sounding. I also don't see most people let alone stan concocting such a weird story about how he fucked up with his role.
Stans frustration and the way he words this is pretty legit sounding. I also don't see most people let alone stan concocting such a weird story about how he fucked up with his role.
nin1000
Chilean German Madman
The only thing he is best at is complaining.
I hope the next role he gets is another one to just mess with him.
In my eyes however it's a really good role,dont listen to him Fantomas
That's quite a handful.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Safe fake claims were done in kingdom hearts, in review I thought this game needed them since in role madness vanilla is not a safe claim. The essential point of safe claims is to stop the game being broken by an immediate mass claim. If Mafia don't have a safe fake claim then they could be stuck with having to make one up with no knowledge of the game at all, which could give them all away.
Scum getting vig as a safe claim came from some dynamics that are no longer present. At one point one of the Mafia had a bulletproof vest. And their win condition talked about threats which gave away the fact their was an adversarial 3rd party. So in that instance as soon as an SK claimed vig they would be outed. Mafia were given the Vig claim to alert them to the SK. That in a small game they should be thinking any secondary killing role isn't town.
I suppose when those elements were dropped the vig safe claim could have gone to the SK but as soon as they make 3 (or even 2) kills they are outed due to everyone else having limited shots. Instead they were given Miller to confirm to them that there is a cop and they are vulnerable to them.
Perhaps Mafia should have gotten slightly better claims but they got one really good one so I think it works. Roleblocker is usually Mafia because it is a defensive role against town prs but I've seen it be town enough to not care about that. And of course Mafia don't have to use the safe claims provided.
That's nothing compared to some other roles lol, (sees Yugi's role and laughs).
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Yeah, as Geno and Faddy said, both Conspiracy and Kingdom Hearts, which were also Role Madness games, had fake role claims given to the Scum teams. However, Monkey chose not to give her Scum teams fake role claims in both Maple Street and Steven Universe, which were also Role Madness. So it's not really a hard rule I guess.
And then yeah, as Faddy said, the game did evolve over the course of the review, and we probably could have given some different fake claims to them, but for the most part it was just supposed to be there to prevent early mass claims from solving things. Fireblend ended up coming up with his own role claim, and Zeke was trying to brainstorm something else besides Vig for Sparks to claim too, so it is up to them at the end of the day always.
Still though, even if an early mass claim doesn't happen, they still have to make a shot in the dark by claiming a role that might be in the game, which isn't an issue in non role madness games where they can claim vanilla.