Per Me Caeci Vident

[lokiduck]

Well then I'll have to consider how I want to proceed. Based on my previous opinions and my reads, Oliver is the best choice as I have given suspicion on him. But I'm not really feeling this vote like at all.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Shit, I didn't realize we were active in here right now, sorry lol.

 

[lokiduck]

Lol it's fine.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

A vote for Mao now would make it a 3-way tie.

Just go with whatever you want though, you're Confirmed Town out there, just give your reads and make your best case.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I also don't disagree with Ket's vote on Kits, that has my seal of approval.

 

[lokiduck]

Bob dammit, I was two pages behind, I change the page and I'm still two behind DX

 

[lokiduck]

caught up

 

[lokiduck]

Holy fuck, people keep posting and I'm having a hard time figuring out who to vote.

 

[lokiduck]

At this point, not voting for one of the main trains would be a waste of a vote, but I should vote on who I suspect most. Out of the main trains...

I can't vote for Mao because I spoke positively in my read on him.

I can vote Oliver since I have spoken against him before, but I'm really not feeling it especially when he's not here.

Puns is someone I could vote for since I was null on him.

I could vote on Kitsune with Ket as I agree with her reasoning and I've been wary on her.

 

[Illuminati member 3]

At this point, not voting for one of the main trains would be a waste of a vote, but I should vote on who I suspect most. Out of the main trains...

I can't vote for Mao because I spoke positively in my read on him.

I can vote Oliver since I have spoken against him before, but I'm really not feeling it especially when he's not here.

Puns is someone I could vote for since I was null on him.

I could vote on Kitsune with Ket as I agree with her reasoning and I've been wary on her.

Wait, I might be reading this wrong, but this post reads like you can't vote agaisnt your previous reads/posts. You know you shouldn't be beholden to those, right? It's part of being a townie, you SHOULD change your reads. Plus you're confirmed town, you shouldn't fear a lynch for saying what you think like that.

 

[Illuminati member 3]

Yo, Aeleus just quoted Loki with this "thanks cap" banter. Are you actually #2?

 

[lokiduck]

RIght. >< I'll look over Mao again.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

100% agreed with Fandorin, don't worry about staying consistent, I change my mind constantly in these games.

 

[lokiduck]

As of right now I'm leaning towards voting Tearable.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah i feel silly now for thinking that way, I just want to be sure with who I'm voting on ><

 

[lokiduck]

okay i looked over Mao and I still can't see a reason in voting for him at least right now. Puns seems like my best choice out of the people I'm wary of, though I wonder if I'm being silly about not Voting Oliver.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I love switching my vote at EoD lol

 

[lokiduck]

Very nice. XD Though it would be interesting if we caused a 3 way tie considering the new 30 extra minutes to prevent ties rule.

 

[Illuminati member 2]

between OJ and TearablePuns, i suspect OJ more. but tbh, i don't know about either. OJ literally dipped until Day 2 and Puns came back with reads. opposite sides of the spectrum

 

[lokiduck]

That's true... the only reason I'd give OJ a pass is that is wasn't going to be here EoD, but even then he could have been talking before he left to deal with RL stuff and he didn't. If Puns can put out more I'll switch my vote.

The reads list was a good start.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Pretty sure Town is voting Swamped here right now, just my instincts saying that.

 

[lokiduck]

I'm looking over Oliver, but I'll look over her after.

 

[Illuminati member 2]

can we post in here during night phase?

 

[lokiduck]

I'm not sure but we'll find out. I want to say it'll always be open because the Illuminati never sleeps. XD

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Pretty sure we can, yeah. I didn't see anything saying we couldn't.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I think Swamped might have been the right vote, and I'm going to definitely be hunting through some of those EoD voting patterns overnight here.

 

[lokiduck]

Welp that was an interesting day end. I'm going to eat lunch and do some other stuff. When I get the chance I'll look over everyone again and put together a list for you guys.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I'll be rereading all of that EoD most likely, especially the votes and when they were coming in. I'll put down notes in here and you all are welcome to comment on them. They will inform whatever pre-typed post I come up with for day start.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah looking over the votes might be a good idea as well, which is what I did during night 1 of my first game. At least in this case if I die you guys will know my thoughts during the night.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

But yeah, I'll also be taking a break at first, after we see the flip of course.

 

[lokiduck]

I keep track of all the votes made through out the day phase in the order they were made as a google sheet. Would you like access to that Fanto?

 

[Illuminati member 2]

i'm hoping that OJ was third party or something b/c i don't feel like scum would just give up like that. from what i recall, no one even came to bail him out of that situation, so if he flips scum, they bussed him hard.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah that's why I was a bit wary on voting for him. I think i was the only one in thread who mentioned that he was going to be gone EoD.

 

[lokiduck]

Welp there it is. :/

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Welp, there's the flip, he was a Town Tracker. That can give us some ideas about what Scum might have (Ninja shot, perhaps)

I keep track of all the votes made through out the day phase in the order they were made as a google sheet. Would you like access to that Fanto?

The Vote Tool has a similar page on it, if you click on the "Toggle View" button, it will show the "Timeline" view, which is that kind of a list.

I usually make my own spreadsheets either way, but thanks for the offer haha.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah I know the vote tool does it, but the tool doesn't keep track of cases like when Cat's vote didn't go through so she had to do it again or when Fran mispelled Oliver's name.

It's the little stuff that counts when analyzing votes. XD

 

[Geno]

You can speak during the night.

 

[lokiduck]

Thanks Geno! I'm glad I was right that a super secret global organization doesn't have a bedtime. XD

 

[lokiduck]

Also during the night phase if @Illuminati member 4 were to chat more with us and at least talk about who they think is scummy, that'd be great.

BTW I kind of love that all of you now have different avatars so that it's easier to tell you apart. Even Numbah 2 stands out now since they are the only one without one.

 

[Illuminati member 2]

where does Fran stand with you all now? i must say, that last 1.5 hours seemed a lot more like scum Fran compared to the rest of the day phase.

 

[lokiduck]

I've honestly been suspicious of him for most fo the game, but I didn't have any real evidence against him so he's on my watch list until I have something more substantial.

 

[lokiduck]

I've only see him as town in games so I don't really know what scum him is like.

 

[Illuminati member 2]

aside from Fran, Aeleus is also sticking out to me.

Going to put a vote out of Zipped now I've gone through his posts properly

VOTE: Zippedpinhead

If that doesn't work out then I see myself going for TP > OJ, wouldn't vote Maol or stu

TP for other players reasonings, OJ for being unreadable, Maol for playing similarly to LiS and Stu because he's a useful player

such a random vote imo. ofc that vote wasn't going to workout, barely anyone had huge concerns about Zipped, and this was the first vote against him with literally no reason given besides "ive gone through his posts properly." it was very weird.

Heads up we've got 25 mins left

Spoiler

And I've just hit my tenth post, I knew I could do it!

Just to remind people we'll get another half an hour if things tie
Actually thinking about it could that rule change also be a lie?

and then we have this? instead of joking and being the timekeeper, wouldn't you be more concerned about making a case for the people you are voting for?

With ~10 mins on the clock anyone want to claim?

and then this... if Aeleus is Town, they are not doing themselves any favors with comments like this.

 

[Illuminati member 4]

I've been thinking about this chat a lot, and if anyone sets me on fire, I'm going to be upset!

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Yeah, Aeleus was definitely in my "bad vibes" pile at EoD once people were actually being pressured to show up and start voting.

I'll get to my reread this evening most likely. For a little glimpse into my life, I'm currently looking for jobs in a different city so I can move there, so I'm trying to spend some time doing that instead of playing Mafia for once in my life lol.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Lone_Prodigy has replaced Nin

 

[lokiduck]

Aeleus definitely has been weird in general. Will definitely look at them tonight.

I've been thinking about this chat a lot, and if anyone sets me on fire, I'm going to be upset!

Lol I'm pretty sure Geno wouldn't set up an arsonist with a group of victims to burn up right from the start. XD

 

[lokiduck]

100% Agee here. XD

 

[lokiduck]

And also Numbah 4, so far all you have done in here is be suspicious of this chat. I get your suspicions as I'm not going to fully trust anyone here either, but can you tell us something else at least? XD

 

[Illuminati member 2]

I've been thinking about this chat a lot, and if anyone sets me on fire, I'm going to be upset!

interested in hearing any of your thoughts about day 1

 

[Illuminati member 4]

interested in hearing any of your thoughts about day 1

It was messy and kind of all over the place, but that's gonna happen in this kind of game. The Swamped votes were super strange and I'm going to be looking a little more closely there

 

[lokiduck]

What did you think of the other trains? Just general opinion on them for now is fine.

 

[lokiduck]

So because of my job the good news is I'll be able to be around for day start tomorrow (if I don't die) because it'll happen when I take my lunch break. But I'm not sure I'll be able to sign up for the new event probably because I have to do something away from the computer right before then. I might be able to squeeze in my submission before that starts but we'll see.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I'm going to be eating soon, but when I'm done I'll be here for the evening/night most likely.

If any of you have ever read a private chat that I was in before in one of these games, you know what to expect. If you have not, then prepare for some big posts and lots of paranoid rambling as I take notes and quote tons of posts from throughout the game.

 

[lokiduck]

Sounds good then. I'll definitely put up my reads list before the night is out (aka me going to bed).

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Ok, about to get started on things now. I'll be here to chat as well while I'm looking through the thread.

 

[lokiduck]

I'm about to get started in a bit as well. I'm just eating a snack and vegging a bit before I get serious. XD I'll respond to your posts as they come though. c:

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

So, starting out with where I went to bed and looking over the Kits and Chugg argument again. Seems like it was probably just Town Kits there, but I'd like to hear some more opinions on her from anyone here who has also played with her in the past. She can definitely make the same kinds of arguments that she'll make as Town when she's Scum, so it's hard for me to determine her sincerity there.

--------------

Now for the part where I quote a bunch of people:

Do whatever and don't think too hard about it. Why? Are your scum teammates not being forward with advice?

This felt kind of overly snarky coming from Kalor? Just against the normal tone I expect from him I guess. Meta stuff, for sure, but worthy of a note.

11 pages? Why do you all feel the need to be so active :/

It'll take a while for me to get through this so I'll start by answering those who've questioned me

-----

Sorian did a decent job explaining my post itself (maybe I should let him ghostwrite all my future work) but I'd ask you to look at my post in context of what malus posted and see if you can try to understand the posts intentions. That said wouldn't your first question make more sense being posed to malus, after all he was the one who made assumptions that scum wouldn't want the item out in the wild, I just mentioned that the opposite scenario could also be true.

Surprised no one else has answered this so I might be wrong (I also don't read comics) but I'm pretty sure the cosmic cube was the thing that turned Capt. America into a Nazi in that big controversy semi-recently.

I'd argue that before game start and the 8th post after game start are pretty close together, also what does this post achieve? You're getting a 'gotcha' out of me at best.

Admit it, you only put this vote out because the posts immediately above you reminded you I was in this game :P

This catch-up post from Aeleus where they answered questions felt kind of unnecessary, a lot of the questions were old and not really relevant anymore, other than responding to Wee I suppose. Just gives me a sense of busy work possibly.

I really don't feel good about players doubting Chuggs' intentions. I guess that's Elaine and Fran, maybe others (hard to pay close attention when there are so many players). Chuggs role only really comes into effect when he dies. No scum role would ever be designed this way, given that the scum win condition is always to make it to the end to tie the vote.

I should be around more today, in a few hours.

Ok, here's the start of the weird Swamped posts probably. The bolded/underlined is just a lie. Is Swamped trying to tell us she's never heard of a Scum Bomb before? For some reason stuff like this has actually been a scum-tell that I've noticed in the past, people making arguments based on falsehoods or presenting arguments in a way to make them appear factual when really they are based on faulty logic.

Also, update, I'm still not moving off of nin at this time.

Update: Nin has dropped out and I'm looking for a replacement

Well fine then

I just wanted to quote these posts together because they made me laugh, lol.

I think blackjack was much less risk than the chest game. With chest the punishment was announced to be death, so I could see scum not jumping straight to opening one. This makes me lean town on Sorian and Wee since they were the first to open a chest (aside from Loki who is confirmed town anyway). TheChuggernaut, Cat and Tearable are also in the range where it wasn't clear if only some traps were roleblocks or if there were actually death traps. Later chest openers probably had figured out that no one would die, though they still took the risk of catching a roleblock. Stu and Aeleus fall into that category, so if one of them should be scum I expect them to not have an active night role. After that it was revealed that there were also empty chests so no points for anyone opening a chest from that point on.

I do agree that scum with powerful roles probably wouldn't sign up for both chests and blackjack. On the other hand I assume it's the same for town with powerful roles. (or also players from unfavorable time zones).

Yes, I was hoping he would engage a bit more.

This was the first Malus post that pinged my "Is Malus actually just Scum here?" radar. Malus deciding to find something mechanical/tangible to base his reads on is not anything new, but this felt like a stretch for him even.

Brazil put it pretty well here too when he quoted it:

I think this is a very malus post, and so I'm not giving it too much weight, but it feels like a lot more effort than this line of reasoning deserves. I really doubt anyone, scum or not, would stop themselves from participating in the first event like that. People just wanna play. It also became pretty obvious that no one would die as soon as the first mimic was revealed.

------
Here were the two votes from Stu and Faddy that followed my case against Tearable:

Fantomas you make a convincing case for Tearable.

Enough so that exerting some pressure to see what we get from Tearable is a good move.

Vote: TearablePuns

Come on Tearable. if you want to not get voted out, you gotta give us something townie or a reason to not vote for you today.

You sniped me Stuart.

VOTE: TearablePuns

I think Fanto makes some good points about you dipping in and out. I didn't like your reaction to my Fran town read either.

Honestly, I don't feel too good about either of these. I feel better about Faddy's, but on a Meta level I still find it out of character for him to follow me instead of sticking to one of his own reads. However, he did point out later that most of the people on his early Scum list ended up being one of the vote candidates, and he did have a unique reason attached unlike Stu, which was Tearable's reaction to Faddy's early town-read on Fran.

As for Stu's though, woof. It is kind of a meme to scum-read Stu for his D1 play at this point, so I don't want to go too hard on him, but man, that vote...

So now that I've answered your first question you should rescind your vote on my right? Because the only reason you're voting me is because I "avoided" your first question?

This was weird from Swamped too, but it almost gives me more of a Neutral vibe than a Scummy one I think? I don't think Scum would act in self-preservation that blatantly, but a Neutral definitely would be concerned about votes on themselves on D1, especially if it's a pushy player like Fran who can convince others to vote with them.

There is the chance she was just joking around, but it still is a straight up request for him to remove his vote from her just because she answered his question now, not even waiting to see what his response to her answer was.

I don't like those quick votes on Tearable. Seems opportunistic to me, especially since Stu hadn't even mentioned TP before. To me it sounds like they were just waiting for someone to make a case for them to jump on.

This post got beat into the ground, but yeah, this was another spot where I was questioning Malus's alignment during EoD. Just read like fake concern to me, and I can definitely see a Scum Malus wanting to sow some discord by planting seeds like this during EoD about people's motivations for voting.

Looking at the vote counts, seems most of the argument on Tearable is meta and I'm not familiar enough to think that's an argument worth listening to personally when from my perspective, there are other players who have been doing basically the same thing (Oliver James for example).

There aren't quite enough votes on Tearable's wagon that I would call early votes opportunistic, it really looks more like townies who don't really have a good D1 target latching onto something to get something going.

Ugh, I pointed this out in the game thread at the time too, but I really did not like this Mao post. He was dead wrong that Tearable and Oliver were being voted for Meta reasons, so I don't like that framing at all. And then that bit about "it looks more like townies who don't have a good D1 target" feels kind of like a scummy read of that situation to me.

Serious whiplash. Can you tell me what changed for you between that vote now?

Nothing? I voted for TheChuggernaut to make the point that I think he should vote, not because I thought he was actually a good place to vote. My vote was never going to stay on him.

Vere went back and forth with AB on this for a while, and I never really understood what he was trying to get at about it. I totally got what AB was doing at the time, he was still catching up and just making posts along the way, that was a joke vote, yes far past normal joke vote times, but it was AB, he wasn't around to play until just then, give him a break lol.

Man I was just about to say I kinda liked Mao's post there, but there seem to be some pretty strong reactions to it. I mean, AB is awesome, don't get me wrong, but actually this is the kind of vote I could see myself casting too. Can't tell if this is a defense force for AB just a quick and easy way to attack Mao.

And then another Swamped post that just sticks out. Why the heck is she agreeing with Mao that AB should be policy voted for being a low-post count player alone? Swamped, please, I almost had to warn you about activity in LiS which was literally almost smaller than D1 in this game total post-count wise lmao.

-------

Ok, that gets me up to post #1200, about 400 more posts to dig through here now. I'll be back with more notes.

 

[lokiduck]

So, starting out with where I went to bed and looking over the Kits and Chugg argument again. Seems like it was probably just Town Kits there, but I'd like to hear some more opinions on her from anyone here who has also played with her in the past. She can definitely make the same kinds of arguments that she'll make as Town when she's Scum, so it's hard for me to determine her sincerity there.

For me Kits posts have mainly been fluffy except for her argument with Chuggs which just sort of went back and forth forever. I think Tearable was right in a way that the argument felt like siblings squabbling over nothing. XD

This felt kind of overly snarky coming from Kalor? Just against the normal tone I expect from him I guess. Meta stuff, for sure, but worthy of a note.

I'm honestly really suspicious of Kalor right now as the only major thing he did during Day 1 was thinking that only Sorian was roleblocked because of the red text thing. He's been pretty quiet and I definitely need more from him :/

As for Stu's though, woof. It is kind of a meme to scum-read Stu for his D1 play at this point, so I don't want to go too hard on him, but man, that vote...

I just finished my read on Stu and pretty much all of his votes on day 1 were motivated by someone else. He voted for you basically as a joke, then voted Oliver based on Wee's argument and then voted on Tearable because of yours, only going back to Oliver to save himself. He did vote for Brazil and Aeleus as well but those were more of prod votes.

This was weird from Swamped too, but it almost gives me more of a Neutral vibe than a Scummy one I think? I don't think Scum would act in self-preservation that blatantly, but a Neutral definitely would be concerned about votes on themselves on D1, especially if it's a pushy player like Fran who can convince others to vote with them.

There is the chance she was just joking around, but it still is a straight up request for him to remove his vote from her just because she answered his question now, not even waiting to see what his response to her answer was.

It was definitely a really weird comment from her, and something to remember as the game continues.

This post got beat into the ground, but yeah, this was another spot where I was questioning Malus's alignment during EoD. Just read like fake concern to me, and I can definitely see a Scum Malus wanting to sow some discord by planting seeds like this during EoD about people's motivations for voting.

This part stood out to me as well though I've been suspicious of Malus for a while much like my suspicions with Kalor. Both didn't post much and most of what I did see wasn't all that good except for maybe one or two posts.

Ugh, I pointed this out in the game thread at the time too, but I really did not like this Mao post. He was dead wrong that Tearable and Oliver were being voted for Meta reasons, so I don't like that framing at all. And then that bit about "it looks more like townies who don't have a good D1 target" feels kind of like a scummy read of that situation to me.

I feel like Mao's main argument most of the time is that he doesn't know anyone that well so he can't meta vote like everyone else. The thing is that most people hadn't played with OJ in a while (at least as far as I understood) so you are right that him framing as meta was pretty weak.

Also he was one of the people mainly wanting to focus on low posters which is a tactic often used by scum to justify their townie votes though it is still NAI. I will note that Stu was heavily against the low posters as well until he started voting for Oliver and Puns.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Honestly, at first I was going to vote malus next since Vincent might have been on to something but then reading malus' post again, malus isn't wrong either.

I went back through your posts from the last day @Stuart444 and you don't have a scum read anywhere. You have a few votes but they were all prod votes to get someone to talk and you never actually followed up with any of them and now you just hitched to Fanto without much commentary either. What are you doing in this game?

VOTE: Stuart444

I like this vote on Stu from Sorian, he does seem to have some legit concerns about Stu's play here, and he follows up on it throughout that page.

And what exactly do you like about the post? He handwaves the Tearable vote as meta which isn't the case from anyone. He handwaves discussion of Chuggs' and Fran's fight because maybe more information will come later and then he votes a low poster when he's also a low poster.

This is Sorian responding to Swamped, basically agreeing with mine and Brazil's takes on that post from Mao and wondering what the heck Swamped is agreeing with him about.

Except the point on Oliver is still just sheeping someone else. Your read on nin is that he didn't sound like "town" nin but I believe he had 2 posts at that point? And one was a comment during the chest game about the mini game. I don't think you are much of a savant on nin to lean anywhere at that point. The Faddy read at least has meat, comparatively, but I can't help but see some OMGUS when he was the only person who had a negative thing to say to you at the time.

So all that said, do you have more to say about Faddy? Or some other reads of your own?

This was Sorian following up with Stu now here.

I'm quoting these Sorian posts because I do think he is still my top Town read here, and his posts during EoD were definitely a big part of that.

That's my issue. It's taken all of the air out of the room and nothing productive is going to come of it because all of the argument is just, "well, what if Chuggs is lying?" Who cares, literally any player in the game right now could be lying about their motivations. Once there's more reason to distrust Chuggs as the game goes on, then this conversation will be more useful, but as it right now it's wasting town's time.

VOTE: Maolfunction

Please give us something worth wasting our time on, then.

Brazil is so Town it hurts lol.

Honestly? Not much other than I think Faddy may be town now. His posts since (just in general) has made me doubt my initial read on him. Can't say much more other than that.

I also am not happy that there is still discussion around Chuggs role and him not voting. It feels like filler discussion at this point especially since no one seems willing to vote for him today.

This does feel a bit like D1 Town Stu to me, but there were other instances where I really felt he was off.

Is this Neutral Stu maybe? A little too cool for school? That's how I was when I was Neutral in HoH, I gave very little fucks about being right or wrong with my reads during the day, the daily vote battle of Town vs. Scum had nothing to do with my win con lol.

As I've said, it's good policy D1 to vote out low post count voters. Aeleus, Ketkat or Zipped are also good candidates, my vote for AB was mostly motivated by the fact I saw them posting amd were active atm, so my vote was both a prod and semi serious.

Don't like how Mao is trying to frame his reasons for voting here, just feels like a cop-out.

I'm finding it quite hard to get a good grasp of all the players here, but here are some thoughts:

I believe Chuggs for now. I think Mao's frustration is coming from a genuine place. I think Fanto's gut read on Tearable feels town as well (it's easy to manufacture gut reads as scum, but his insistence feels real to me so far). I liked faddy too, although I can't remember why. Been liking Cat too.

As far as scum reads go, I could honestly see myself voting for anyone. Fran more than others, but I might be biased given that he's the one I've interacted most with so far. Something feels off about Brazil's posts too.

Some reasoning has been floating around saying not to vote for people who have won items. Why is that? Scum could just as easily win, right? Does the item disappear if they get lunched or NKed? Wasn't around for the first game so no idea how this works.

These Swamped reads are weird. She gives out some Town reads but without really any reasoning attached to them, they are all pretty weak. The Scum reads start with her saying "I could honestly see myself voting for anyone" and then focusing on Fran and Brazil, who have both been going after her so far during this EoD for various reasons... Then she throws out some "Why don't we want to vote for item winners?" question instead of explaining her Scum reads more. Really don't like that.

It's D1, what sort of valuable discussion do you think you're getting from going round in circles about Chugg's role, and how are you determining that people's reactions to it lean more scum than town?

As for the quality of the individual's posts, I'd put Zipped last, then AB, then Ketkat, then Aeleus. But it's been so little, that I don't think any of their posts has had any impact on the game whatsoever.

Mao continues to go on about how we should just policy vote a low-post player instead of trying to get any discussions going or read into anyone's posts for anything on D1, which might be just the meta he is used to clashing with us, but it also is just not a great argument.

I kind of picked it apart later when he said he would prefer a Meta-based vote over a vote based on usual D1 arguments, but that he himself is just going to policy vote a low-post-count player lol. Like, my dude...

I'll just put down a vote before I have to leave.

vote: Stuart444

I didn't like his vote on TearablePuns. In an earlier reads post he had Oliver and Faddy as possible scum and Wee as possible town, but now he's voting with Faddy against Wee on someone other than Oliver. I think Oliver hasn't even interacted much with the thread since that reads list, but he is suddenly no longer scum?

here's the quote for reference:

This vote felt really weak from Malus, but at the same time, Stu's vote for Tearable was pretty bad too. If one of these two is Scum, I would guess the other is not.

In any case, fine, Fran.

I remember more posts about Chuggs and his role/refusal to vote/etc than anything else from them. Brazil I'm fine with only because they had been absent and wasn't around for the earlier discussions.

It's also not a hard read from me either way, more me pointing out what I think is a waste of time for town but I like pointing out thinks like that incase it becomes evidential in later days.

Here Stu calls out Fran for talking about Chugg's role too much still at EoD, and also mentions Brazil.

He does not mention Swamped however, who was definitely engaging in it a lot, just check the quotes I've brought into here from her. That strikes me as interesting, since Stu was apparently pretty focused on the fact that he thought people were talking about that too much.

Because 28 people aren't going to get scrutinized day 1. People need to digest smaller amounts of info and we specifically got Oliver becasue Wee put it forward, Tearable because Fanto put it forward, and Stu because malus threw shade and I put it forward.

This is a good post from Sorian, I just wanted to quote it lol.

I asked for 30 minutes and you couldn't even give me that :(

Fran:
Don't like the concentration he's put on chuggs this phase even if there isn't much to go on in D1, it's all policy based stuff which is ulitmately a waste of time as nobody is going to kill chuggs for it, I also think his idea of chuggs being a neutral which doesn't want to vote is ridiculous given there are so many better fake claims if that's the case. On the more tenuous side I'm pretty sure he noted that voting was important for the votelog but has now changed tracks to say the important thing is having a vote at EOD for pressure, so I'm not a fan of that.

Verelios:
Vibes really, just feel his posts have been a bit hollow.

Zipped:
Low activity so there isn't that much to dig into but I hated these two posts

In terms of adding players to the name salad I'd put fandorin in the town and TP in the susp

I think I'm incapable of reading OJ, too much hostility for me

I had mentioned at the time that I really didn't like these reads from Aeleus all that much, they maybe felt a bit forced. Probably NAI though, but I also got a sense that they did not believe in any of those reads all that much.

But it's D1. If you're a townie with very little information to act on, being active is about the only thing you've got.

Yes, I do think there's certain actions players can make to appear more townie, like asking easy questions (What are your top 3 reads?) or poking players into playing the game. Scum can easily do this, but all I'm seeing from Tearable is clueless townie behavior. I don't think it's a very strong reason to vote someone on the first day, and I'm not agreeing with the people who jumped on after you. It's not just a dig at you, I don't like that anyone saw valid reasoning in what you said.

Both Mao and I believe AB as well used this line of reasoning when criticizing my read on Tearable during EoD. They would say it was a bad read for whatever reasons, but then they wouldn't shade me for it when I would defend my reasoning, they would instead point me towards the people who also voted there and tell me they were the ones following a bad read, so it isn't my fault for making it.

Just didn't like that framing very much, like they didn't want to call me Scum for the read, but they still wanted to shit on it.

Taking a look at the votes and what feels weird to me, I'm leaning towards voting for Kitsunelaine or Malus right now. Mostly Kitsunelaine though. Malus has a very weak vote there, but there's a little more in this one that I don't like.

This is the post where she voted for Oliver James, and everything about this feels off to me. Her reasoning is that she agrees with wee's post, and that's good enough for her to agree to put this vote down and stay on it. Wee's reasoning was primarily that Oliver James didn't know Lokiduck's nickname, didn't know that a bastard game could have lies from the mod, and that Oliver was trying to cover for Faddy and prevent him from getting piled on early. That last one is a fair thing to be concerned about, but I'm not seeing how that makes him scum at this point in the game when these posts were made.

Past that, Kitsunelaine's last section of her post here is talking about how lokiduck might not actually be town, and she's willing to consider looking there starting on Day 2. This feels like she's hedging her bets so that she has an opening to vote for someone who is confirmed town later in the game.

The reads list is fine, although the argument between Chuggs and Kits about how he's actually absent was strange. So, for now, I'm going to put this here :

Vote: kitsunelaine

I think this is a good post from Ketkat and has me slightly leaning Town on her here. I agree that either Malus or Kits would have been fine alternatives to have up for the vote today.

I don't know how active I'll be during this last hour so I'll put my vote somewhere more useful.

Vote: Maolfunction

As for the reasoning, it's really just a gut feeling looking at some of their posts. I don't really have anything substantial right now. It's bad but I don't feel strongly about the other people with votes right now. I definitely think Stu is a bad lynch. I'm ambivalent on Tearable and Oliver but I don't think they're the best choices.

Decent vote from Kalor I suppose, definitely some worse ones being made and this helped to push Mao into contention for a short while there at least.

His interactions with Mao. I get he's trying to ask questions and poke holes which is great, but this reply to Mao in particular felt off and I think colored the rest of his posts in my eyes:

Brazil says he doesn't like Mao waffling over his read of Fran, but to me it seemed clear that Mao is "wary" of him. Also, Brazil's criticism of Mao's "concern trolling" doesn't sit well with me, mostly because I think the same way as Mao at this point. I don't think it's productive to be concerned with Chuggs' role at this point as I don't think it's a scum role.

Not a fan of this Swamped post either, don't like the way she's trying to make Brazil out to be the bad guy here, I didn't see anything wrong with the way he was going after Mao, it felt very much like Brazil to me.

-----

That's another page down, I should be able to get through the rest here soon, I'll try to hurry myself up a bit lol.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Ok, final round of quotes!

Next will come the part where I put together a read list, but without comments because those go into my pretyped post instead!

--------

To defend my bad reads A) It's day one B) I haven't even read all the thread and C) It's me what did you expect

There's no chance that Vere is going today so I'm going to reread them during the night (if I get the chance)

Of the 9 posts of Zipped I find 3 to be anything other that fluff

Underlined is them finding an easy way to throw shade on multiple players for something I see as NAI

There wasn't a gambit and Brazil wasn't in contention, unless the question mark is meant to show bewilderment of the vote this is a pretty bad post

In this apparent reads list Zipped fails to actually give any scum reads and doesn't give any reasons for his 4 towns (meta I guess). Otherwise this is entirely fluff

Going to put a vote out of Zipped now I've gone through his posts properly

VOTE: Zippedpinhead

If that doesn't work out then I see myself going for TP > OJ, wouldn't vote Maol or stu

TP for other players reasonings, OJ for being unreadable, Maol for playing similarly to LiS and Stu because he's a useful player

Didn't really like Aeleus's attempt to put a scum read on Zipped and also vote there at EoD. That was not going to go anywhere, but it also stuck out a lot. Does Scum drop that vote, or do they try to blend in by going for a top train? An age old question.

I could totally vote for AB. I could see myself voting Stuart too actually - his questioning has been kinda softball. I could also see myself voting for malus just because there are many here (Chuggs and Fanto) who are like..."yeah! malus" but not doing much about it. So it would be nice to see some reactions from them, plus malus isn't really a townread for me anyway. Would also love to vote Fran.

So...who should I end up voting???

Swamped narrowed her vote targets down to AB, Stuart, Malus, and Fran. So she has dropped Brazil now at this point, but picked up Stuart and Malus instead?

Kind of a low-key poster who has been mainly echoing other people.

Also thinks he can win me over with nostalgia :P which, yeah, he probably can...

VOTE: Absolutbro

I should be mostly around so this vote is subject to change. But I feel good about it.

Then she drops her vote on AB, following Mao's vote there to make it a possible train now.

I feel the best about Fran, Sorian, Fandorin and Loki so far.
I won’t vote Chuggs b/c i think there are better choices atm.
Oliver is acting kind of strange. Not wanting to vote today and choosing to wait til tomorrow even though he should know he's on a lot of people's bad list today.
That Kit and Chuggs interaction felt like a fight between siblings. It felt weird because one was admitting they didn’t read the other ones posts and the other was continuously responding in aggravation. Idk how I feel about that whole thing tbh. I played with Kit in HvV but i guess i didn’t get enough read on how she plays before the modkill.

Of the lower posters, Aeleus has stood out to me as strange. This would be my gut feeling mention. I have never played with them before, so i'm not going to vote for them based on that today.

Fanto sticking with the vote on me since back when I missed responding to his LiS question is interesting. He’s adamant that I’m scum and I think he’s starting to see things about my behavior that aren’t actually there. Could be scum but I’m more likely to believe it’s just a Day 1 dedication vote and I won’t vote for him just because of that.

Stuart is acting different than he typically does when he’s Town. Usually he’s a lot more dedicated to investigating and telling his reads about everyone. He doesn’t seem as open right now. I wasn’t mentioned in his read list and yet I’m his vote. Saying Fanto’s reasoning swayed him reminds me of when he tried to latch onto my vote on Faddy back in ONUW to potentially save the werewolf team. He stands out the most to me of anyone atm.

VOTE: Stuart444

I think it goes without saying, i will vote to save my life. Stu is who i want gone, but I'll do what i need to do.

I thought this was a good post from Tearable, those all felt like genuine thoughts and reads to me. Does anyone have thoughts on that list from Tearable? He followed up quite a bit throughout our second EoD with Stu as well.

Malus.: I think that Malus spend most of his time talking about mechanics but that's something that Malus would do regardless of his aligment. This caught my attention:

He played the first game when he was sure he was safe from a kill. I liked his read about Faddy and I agree that Wee seems townie. His vote about Stuart makes sense when he said that he thought that Stuart was jumping on Tearable wagon. My main concern here is that he has very little opinion about anything. I don't know what Malus think about most of the players.

Tearable: I find the case that Fantomas did reasonable. He did barely anything and he doesn't seems to be trying to find scum. Most of his posts are fluff but that's how I expect Tearable to play. Low start until he goes full Alex Jones. It's a long maybe.

Maol: I think this is a bad vote. I don't agree with some thing that Maol is saying but he is engaged with the game and giving opinions. I don't like that he was focused on lunching low activy players as that's a spot where scum is comfortable but as he is giving his insight on various matters I don't mind much. I wouldn't vote for him today.

OJ: I feel that he spend most of his time around useless things, like when Geno didn't highlighted the roleblocks. Or the honor system from Chuggs. He has no reads. At all. He even said that he would vote for one of his voters. His last post was weird:

This came out of nowhere and I don't understand what is he trying to say there.

Vote: Oliver James

I really liked this read list from Fran as well, except I felt like he was maybe making a decent case for Malus, but chose to go Oliver at the end. I think that was because Malus wasn't a realistic train at that point though, so he just wanted to make his vote useful.

Weird in the sense that you didn't care if anyone saw your emphasis. It's a gut feeling but it felt like you were putting on a show for later. I did wonder if I was the only one seeing that but your reasoning amounting to 'because I can' makes me feel worse.

Vote: Absolutbro

Vere finally just goes for it after winding up for a while and turns the AB vote into a thing by dropping vote #3 there.

And then pretty much right away:

Well this is from memory, but yeah the Chuggs reasoning. I also felt the same way about Tearable and Mao so I unconsciously thought your logic wasn't unique.

Still, you're more engaged now and I kinda don't want to vote here any more, it's not exciting enough.

unvote

Swamped unvotes. No longer does she want to be on the AB train, she wants her vote somewhere else, which ended up being Stuart.

Brazil's reaction:

Yikes

When push comes to shove I've got no idea who I want dead between OJ and TP

Going to try and tie things up

VOTE: TearablePuns

Not sure what to make of this vote from Aeleus. I think this put it at 6/6/5 for Stu/Oliver/Tearable, so he chose not to break the tie there and instead keep it alive.

Damn, kind of wanted that to be true.

Ok, so what are we doing here, none of you seemed to care to claim to save your life.

This was a good point, no one up for the vote decided to claim. Oliver was obviously MIA, but neither Tearable nor Stuart felt the need to claim, and Stu also didn't even break the tie to go for Oliver over himself when he had the chance, which Faddy pointed out here:

At EoD the votes were tied. Stuart could have voted at the last second to break the tie.

He spent most of today with softball prod votes and very little questioning beyond surface level stuff with players and his reads list(s) have been abysmal. And then I had to spend a half hour finally getting him to take even a mild stand on his own against Fran. He's looking busy from my angle.

A decent take from Sorian on why he wanted to vote for Stuart the most, I can't fault him for having that read.

Out of the leaders (both vote and post count), you're the only vote I felt comfortable with as you have a lot of posts, but I'm struggling to remember a stance you have taken.

This is such a weird justification for her vote on Stu tbh. Especially when she comes at everyone voting for her with this:

It's garbage, the reasoning is literally "viiiiiiibes"

------

This doesn't seem like you, Stu. It's very low effort and i've never associated you with that term.

A good point here for sure, and another reason why I think Stu could be a Neutral, he just doesn't seem that worried about votes and reads all that much.

Wanted to wait for a bit and see if he came back last second. Also wanted to see if Swamped gained traction since I feel like I could go that way as well.

That said, I guess with just over 5 minutes to go, now is as good a time as any:

Vote: Oliver James

This just did not compute for me. If he wanted to see Swamped gain traction because he could go that way, why did he not place his vote there, and why would he then settle on Oliver with just 5 minutes to go? I don't get it.

Sorry! The vote-tool 403'd so I couldn't iso her posts. That said: I don't really scum-read swamped atm. The "you should unvote me because I answered your question Fran" thing was kind weird, but I think it was more of a "see how far stated principles actually go" type of thing and less of an actual suggestion. Voting for me wasn't unreasonable when Maol did it and swamped voted for me for similar reasons (quiet, "echoed on chuggs"), which are at least reasons. Can't fault that. Her other posts re: the Brazil/Maol exchange (post ~1,300) also reads like a pretty solid town post.

I admit, it's a fairly surface level town read based on the first page or two of search results, but meh.

If Swamped were to ever flip Scum, this post, and Swamped's vote behavior around AB, makes me think they could maybe be partners. That's a steaming hot take though, so take it appropriately lol.

-----


OK, that wraps up the quote section. If anyone is around and wants to chat, I am here while working on the order of my read list.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

so he chose not to break the tie there and instead keep it alive.

*they

 

[lokiduck]

Thanks for the quotes and looking forward to your read list. I'm really curious what you have to say about Faddy, because he is a really tough read for me and I'm getting nothing. .-.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Thanks for the quotes and looking forward to your read list. I'm really curious what you have to say about Faddy, because he is a really tough read for me and I'm getting nothing. .-.

Faddy is Town. There was one specific quote I remember seeing that made me go "Yes! Faddy is Town!" I'll have to go dig it out from his ISO because I can't remember what it was off the top of my head lol.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

So rather than do your own work you latch onto one read that you call a maybe.

And honestly I pinged Stuart for what looks like a bad reason. doesn't necessarily make him town but it makes my read bad.

This is the one lmao.

Faddy is telling Apo that he is latching on to a bad read of Stu that he had early in the game, because me and Sorian both told him his Meta was off for what he was basing it on.

That just reads really Townie to me for some reason lol.

 

[lokiduck]

Well okay then. XD I'll keep him null on my list for now, but thanks for that info.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

There's obviously more to it than that, but I just am not getting a Scum Faddy sense here, which feels good for once. At worst he might be Neutral, or else just based on the fact that me and Faddy haven't been on the same team in over a year, this is probably going to turn into a Cult or some shit lol.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

But yeah, working on read list now.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Town:
Loki
Chugg
Sorian
Fran
Brazil
Faddy

Lean Town:
Fandorin
Wee
Cat
Vere
Vincent
Ketkat
Zipped

Null:
Stu
Tearable
Kalor
Muffin
Apopheniac
AB
Neon

Who's Left?
Mao
Nin/LP
Kits
Swamped
Malus
Aeleus

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

That's pretty much where I'm at right now.

 

[lokiduck]

Seems to be a good lis there Fanto. I'm only a third of the way through the players. XD

I think I might be overwhelmed by how many players there are .-.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I'll have full comments and stuff on all of them, but those will be in the post I put in the thread assuming I live. I can explain any specific ones in here though if anyone asks.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I think I might be overwhelmed by how many players there are .-.

I've found that I really only enjoy games with a ton of players like this, I don't know why lol.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Image Mafia being the one exception, I'm always up for a small round of Image Mafia lol.

 

[lokiduck]

Can your explain your town lean for Fran?

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Also, that read list is not based on looking at votes at all lol I realized I skipped that step.

 

[lokiduck]

I've found that I really only enjoy games with a ton of players like this, I don't know why lol.

I think the reason why it's harder for me with more players is because of the way I do read lists and because of the sheer amount of posts. XD

My first game was a small one after all so that probably helped.

The way I do reads is using the vote tool to look at each players posts and just go through all of them again to see if anything stands out to me. (I must have done that at least 6-7 times in SU)

 

[lokiduck]

Also, that read list is not based on looking at votes at all lol I realized I skipped that step.

I've been looking at their votes while I work on the reads.

While additionally making two different read lists with the same results (basically one for this thread and one for the real thread incase I don't die.) I'm having to write the same stuff in different ways twice just to avoid copying from here. XD

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

Can your explain your town lean for Fran?

It's all Meta at this point really, or intuition I suppose I should say, he feels very much like he was in MafiEra and LB3 on D1. In Simon Says when he was Scum and I was spectating, I did have him down as a Town lean on D1 I think, but if I remember right, he was totally Scum in my mind by D2, so I expect I can get a better read on him later.

The same goes for Faddy as well really, he just feels very Town to me so far and I feel like I'll know for sure eventually if he's not. I trust instincts early for my Town reads, I'm fine with being wrong, I've learned my lesson about trusting my early meta town reads for too long, I'm willing to adapt lol.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I think the reason why it's harder for me with more players is because of the way I do read lists and because of the sheer amount of posts. XD

My first game was a small one after all so that probably helped.

The way I do reads is using the vote tool to look at each players posts and just go through all of them again to see if anything stands out to me. (I must have done that at least 6-7 times in SU)

Yeah, that's easier to do in smaller games or ones where the average per-day post counts are pretty low, but not so much in a game like this.

I usually try to zoom in on specific parts of the game that I want to focus on in big ones like this, usually EoD because that's when important votes start coming in and opinions are starting to matter more. It can also be day start in later days, or reactions around a claim or some other kind of info in the thread as well. Then I just read through and, like you saw I did earlier, take a lot of notes about how I'm feeling about various quotes and stuff while reading.

I then just kind of formulate thoughts on different players in my head, and then I look at the roster, and just start piecing together my list. Starting with my Towniest of Town and then working my way down until I'm left with a pool of suspects.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I'll try to take a look at the votes now though and see if anything sticks out to me.

 

[lokiduck]

Probably what I'll end up doing is focusing only on the newer pages in the future (for the bigger posters at least) and only do a big read on the people I'm scumreading the most.

 

[lokiduck]

I'll try to take a look at the votes now though and see if anything sticks out to me.

Sounds like a good plan. Definitely should look at the late Oliver voters, but also who were on the other trains until they suddenly jumped to him.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

For the early votes on Oliver, Wee's is fine for now most likely, we'll get more on them for sure in the future.

Kits' vote isn't great, just a sheep from Wee.

Muffin and Cat, meh, I think they are both fine probably.

As for the later ones
Fando, did you explain why you wanted to go for Oliver and not follow onto the Swamped vote?

Verelios, he had said he would go Oliver out of the top trains, so I buy that vote, interested to know why he chose to not go with others to Swamped though unless I missed that (I'm only looking at the vote tool right now, not clicking through to posts)

Kalor switched to Oliver when he showed back up at EoD, he didn't understand why we were going for Swamped, but I don't blame him.

Mao finally decided to take a stance on a top train and went for Oliver over Stu, which is consistent with his stances at the least.

------

Honestly the Swamped switch was kind of a mind-meld moment between Brazil, Me, Faddy, and Fran I think. That's why I said in here at the time that I thought Town was voting Swamped, we all seemed to have the same "What was up with Swamped back there?" feeling that we just wanted to go with.

Not a fan of Apo's vote on Stu, I could move him into Scum territory on my list possibly, I'd want to look closer at him.

Malus's vote wasn't good there either, and of course Swamped's.

AB removed his vote from Stu during the second EoD.

Sorian and Tearable had good votes on him though I thought.

Vincent, Loki, Aeleus remained on Tearable. Vincent... I really don't think he's Scum, I having a feeling he would be terrified of interacting with me and other high post count players if he was Scum, but he seems normal.

Aeleus though, yeah I can see a possible Scum or Neutral Aeleus here.

I'm ok with Ketkat's vote on Kits, but I wish she would have been around during second EoD to maybe switch it or convince us to go there instead.

No votes from: Chugg, AB, Zipped, Nin.

Chugg would have voted for Malus if he wasn't playing this weird game with his role, and then later he popped back in and said he would have gone Tearable out of the top trains, but that was before Tearable showed up again too I think.

AB removed his vote from Stu during second EoD.

Zipped said he was going to be on a plane, it looks like he probably didn't have time to catch up and vote before he had to go.

Nin was MIA.

----

There's my vote notes, I'll see if this changes my mind on anything while I contemplate things and get ready for bed. I'll be up for a bit still though.

 

[lokiduck]

Out of the later voters on Oliver, the one I'm probably most suspicious of is Kalor, but you'll see that in my read list when i post it.

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I would say, just based on votes:

One of Kits/Muffin
One of Kalor/Mao
Possibly Stu
Apo/Malus/Swamped - Probably at least one in there
Possibly Aeleus

Those would be my suspects if I was only looking at the vote tool I think.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah those are reasonable suspects are most are in my null reads or on my watch list. XD

 

[Illuminati Member 5]

I'll be heading to bed pretty soon here now.

I'll probably do a bit more work in the morning in here, maybe try to do some ISOs and report my findings. Then I'll get to work on my pretyped post(s) for day start, which will be a full read list with comments, and then probably picking one or two scum reads for me to go in-depth on.

 

[lokiduck]

How long do you guys think the event tomorrow will take? If it's longer than 30 minutes I probably shouldn't sign up for it as much as I want to.

 

[lokiduck]

Sounds good Fanto, I'm getting closer to finishing my read list. My plan after that is to probably relax before bed time and check back here during my work break before day start. I'll post my main thread reads list probably after the event is over either during lunch or one of my breaks.

I'll say in the thread as much that I'll be inactive until later in the day.

 

[lokiduck]

In the mean time I'd love to hear from our other members on their thoughts in general and also to hear if they have comments about the work we have done so far.

 

[lokiduck]

What you say will be useful to us should any of us die either via night kill or from being launched.

 

[lokiduck]

Small theory time. If Swamped and Mao aren't mafia, I think they have some kind of partnership (which could be town or neutral).

The reason:

They both voted Absolutbro.

Bummer than nin had to drop, hope everything is OK.


Looking at the vote counts, seems most of the argument on Tearable is meta and I'm not familiar enough to think that's an argument worth listening to personally when from my perspective, there are other players who have been doing basically the same thing (Oliver James for example).


There aren't quite enough votes on Tearable's wagon that I would call early votes opportunistic, it really looks more like townies who don't really have a good D1 target latching onto something to get something going.


The thing between Fran and Chuggs is kind of interesting, but I don't really think it'd be productive for town to start questioning and distrusting the information we're given so early on. Any additional info or motivations we get from Chuggs is gonna serve mafia more than town this early on. It makes me wary of Fran, but I'm not familiar with their playstyle. This could be normal, over eager town behavior.


For an actual action, I'm gonna Vote: Absolutbro Very little contribution, not really adding anything of value to the conversation, hasn't really made any noteworthy comments other than asking what's happened. This is something I'd be comfortable voting out early on just because it's going to be easier for people to skate by as the game goes on.

Kind of a low-key poster who has been mainly echoing other people.




Also thinks he can win me over with nostalgia :P which, yeah, he probably can...


VOTE: Absolutbro


I should be mostly around so this vote is subject to change. But I feel good about it.

Swamped was defensive of Mao, trying to justify his actions.

I'm finding it quite hard to get a good grasp of all the players here, but here are some thoughts:


I believe Chuggs for now. I think Mao's frustration is coming from a genuine place. I think Fanto's gut read on Tearable feels town as well (it's easy to manufacture gut reads as scum, but his insistence feels real to me so far). I liked faddy too, although I can't remember why. Been liking Cat too.


As far as scum reads go, I could honestly see myself voting for anyone. Fran more than others, but I might be biased given that he's the one I've interacted most with so far. Something feels off about Brazil's posts too.


Some reasoning has been floating around saying not to vote for people who have won items. Why is that? Scum could just as easily win, right? Does the item disappear if they get lunched or NKed? Wasn't around for the first game so no idea how this works.

I wouldn't necessarily fault this, there are 28 people which is too many to have meaningful interactions with every player in 48 hours. So voting for someone after reading their posts seems reasonable to me.






Man I was just about to say I kinda liked Mao's post there, but there seem to be some pretty strong reactions to it. I mean, AB is awesome, don't get me wrong, but actually this is the kind of vote I could see myself casting too. Can't tell if this is a defense force for AB just a quick and easy way to attack Mao.

His interactions with Mao. I get he's trying to ask questions and poke holes which is great, but this reply to Mao in particular felt off and I think colored the rest of his posts in my eyes:







Brazil says he doesn't like Mao waffling over his read of Fran, but to me it seemed clear that Mao is "wary" of him. Also, Brazil's criticism of Mao's "concern trolling" doesn't sit well with me, mostly because I think the same way as Mao at this point. I don't think it's productive to be concerned with Chuggs' role at this point as I don't think it's a scum role.

And both were unwilling to vote on each other. Mao even found the votes on Swamped suspicious.

I also don't think Mao and Tearable are the right votes today.

This rushed late wagon on Swamped I do not like. Of the three top wagons, I feel Oliver's has the most merit, and I don't really see any value in the Tearable or Stu wagons.


Vote: Oliver James

 

[lokiduck]

I think they may not be mafia based if they are partners because this would pretty weak scum play (but mafia do take risks), which is why I'm more willing to believe they are neutral/town.

 

[lokiduck]

Town Lean:
Fanto: I’ve only see Town Fanto so far, but here he seems like it again. He’s helping a lot in both the main thread and here and he gave good reasoning for his votes. Town lean still.

Sorian: Talking and discussing with people. Voted for low posters at first before switching to Stuart which they backed up by giving a decent reason for doing so. Still giving me townie vibes for now.

Fando: Voted for Mao before switching to Oliver (though you were suspicious of Oliver for most of the phase so it makes sense) Over all his posts have been decent here and in the main thread.

Brazil: Started the Mao train before starting the Swamped train. So far I am liking the posts he has made and I’m getting good vibes from him. town lean for now.

Cat: Voted for Oliver based on his weak posts but humored Puns. over all I’ll say seems townie to me for now.

wee: Despite starting the Oliver Train, I still think they are town because her reasoning for voting him made sense at the time.

Null Lean:
Chuggs: I’ve been debating his claim for a while. This feels like it could be real or it could be an excuse for why he doesn’t want to vote because his real power is vote related and anti-town. I’m going to believe him for now, though I am considering the possibilities of what this means. I’ve seen scum claim on day 1 and I’ve seen town so it could go either way. For now he’s a null lean because I want to see more from him besides him talking about his roll. He also voted for Malus before unvoting.

Ket: I liked her reasoning for voting Kitsunelaine. Based on our game together, the amount of posts she made is fairly normal for her so not surprised. I liked a few of her posts though she spent a bit too much time on mechanics talk. She’s still null but I’m liking her posts so far.

Puns: His reads list was pretty good, so if he posts more like that I’ll town lean him. Null still.

Zipped: I agree with Fanto that he does seem like townie Zipped but I want more. Null for now.

Neon: Voted Swamped when asked to vote by Fran and did so because Fanto was? He also town read Malus because Malus was calmer compared to SU? Want more from him still so Null.

Muffin: Was feeling pretty good about him for the most part but he voted on Oliver without really explain why except that he stood out to him. Null read.

Aeleus: Voted Zipped then Puns. Has been fairly quiet. One of you thought they was one of us because they called me cap in a weird response to me wanting to get a vote down, but cap is a common nickname for Captain America soooooo it means nothing. I’d be more weird out if they called me Lokicap or knew the origin of my username. Null read for now.

Vincent Alexander: Mainly focused on Chuggs discussion and event stuff. Voted for Puns and stayed there. Null still.

Mao: Has mainly focused on voting low post counters. Voted Absolutbro before later switching to Oliver because wasn’t feeling Swamped vote (found it suspicious considering Swamped won’t vote for him either). Still Null

Absolutbro: Voted for Chuggs and later Stuart. Was suspicious of the Mao training because people were voting for Mao because he voted for Bro for voting for Chuggs. Still want more as more or less a null read.

Stuart: I was town reading him earlier because I agreed with the early reads list he put out, but his votes were weird. Aside from a joke vote he mainly focused on low posters only to switch to votes based on other people’s arguments. Null read now.

Verelios: has posted a bunch, but most of his comments are very minimal. He has quite a bit of fluff posts, though when he talks about the game he gets right to the point. He voted on Absolute bro before switching to Oliver when Fran asked the “pointless vote”rs to move their vote. His suspicion of Wee was weird. Null Still

Kitsunelaine: Voted Oliver based on wee’s post. Most of her posts have been fluff except for her argument with Chuggs. Null still

Faddy: Still having a hard time reading him though his voting was interesting. He started after joke voting on Puns based on what Fanto said, then switched to Malus without real explanation, and finally to Swamped after Brazil and Fanto. I’ll have to trust what you guys say about his gameplay. Null read still.

Swamped: Was feeling good about her earlier, but now I’m way more wary. She was weirdly defensive of Fran voting for her still and also Mao as she kept trying to defend him. It was a bit weird. She voted for Absolut (like Mao) then moved on to Stu because she couldn’t get behind a Oliver or Mao vote. Null read.

Fran: He focused a bunch on the events, Chugs, and asking questions about the people he is suspecting the most (so typical Fran). He voted for swamped because she wouldn’t answer his question about Chugs, then switched to Oliver because he thought Oliver had posted nothing useful, but then switched back to Swamped for having a weak scum list and other reasons. Something about him rubs me the wrong way, but I can’t explain why so i’m giving him a null read.

Malus: Didn’t like Puns train so voted on Stu for voting for him. Mostly talked about mechanics and Chuggs role. Not getting good vibes from him like Kalor so will watch him. Null still.

Apopheniac: Voted for Stu without really giving a reason why. He’s another hard one to read (not just because I didn’t realize he was joking LOL) but something about him rubs me the wrong way and I think he suspicious but don’t have any real proof for now.

Kalor: Hasn’t contributed much except for a now debunked theory and discussion near end of day. He voted for Neon as a prod vote, then switched to Maol with the reason “somethings off about his posts”, only to switch to Oliver when the tiebreaker started without a real reason. His reasoning for picking Oliver is that he didn’t get why people were voting for Swamped. Not really a good luck if Swamped ends up scum, but still is considering Oliver was town. :/ Null but slight scum lean.


People I would not vote for now:

Fanto
Sorian
Fando

Main Watch list (People I really want to pay attention to)
Fran
Apop
Kalor
Swamped
Malus

 

[Illuminati member 2]

i’ll tell you that I’m not Aeleus, so that Cap comment was purely circumstance. and I appreciate both of your read lists, I have read them both. i’ll try to come up with a little something before day start. what I’m mainly concerned with is people who jumped ship from OJ at a point where it was positive or very likely he would be lunched. and on top of that, those that begin to write a dialogue against someone else right before day end. scum usually does this to sway town into voting for against themselves

 

[Illuminati member 2]

the TearablePuns train kind of dissipated after the tie, Swamped got hammered out of no where after Stu started to get heat. there’s something there, and atm I don’t think Fanto was a suspect in that but was just caught up in the bee swarm.

 

[Illuminati member 3]

I’ve had much less time to play than I wanted. Was going to look into the Stuart train from start to finish to understand what exactly went there, but not sure I’ll be able to before day start.

Disappointed in that lynch, but at least we got a lot of movement with the sudden push to Swamped and 3-way tie, so I think those vote counts will be very useful later on.

Maol end game was terrible to me. He coasted the entire phase and only started actively playing when he got called out for a bad vote. His previous posts were just jumbled thoughts with little input, and at the end his “low post vote policy” is way more convenient excuse for low effort voting than Chuggs claimed role is.

Besides him, malus outright calling the Tearable train as opportunistic and then voting for Stu for his vote, without addressing a bunch of posts that conflicted with his conclusion, is exactly the type of fake content I expect from him. Would look a lot more into him.

Swamped had a good early phase and I liked most of her posts, like I pointed out in here. Her posts read sincere to me, like she didn’t have to overthink about what she was writing. She got overly concerned about Fran’s vote thought (and that discussion never ended), and her reactions during the tie breaker were very weird, especially her bad effort at defending herself and hedging against Brazil (“his posts give me a bad feeling”). Not the type of reaction I expected from mafia!Swamped, but it makes sense for a neutral player who has to fend for themselves.

I think Fantomas is right that the Swamped wagon was a townie one (Brazil + Fantomas at the very least) I don’t think we had a scum at risk during the first EoD since Oliver flipped town and Stuart had the chance to switch his vote and avoid going into the tie breaker but didn’t - he might’ve actually forgotten or just didn’t want to, but either way that’s not something I’d expect from scum!Stuart.

 

[Illuminati member 2]

I think Fantomas is right that the Swamped wagon was a townie one (Brazil + Fantomas at the very least) I don’t think we had a scum at risk during the first EoD since Oliver flipped town and Stuart had the chance to switch his vote and avoid going into the tie breaker but didn’t - he might’ve actually forgotten or just didn’t want to, but either way that’s not something I’d expect from scum!Stuart.

you bring up some great points. i'd like to point out that Stu breaking the tie and voting for OJ, even if he could have waved it off as a "save my life vote" would put a lot more of a spotlight on him going into the next day phase, especially with the way he acted in Day 1.
for all we know, he had his finger ready to vote OJ if someone had broken the tie last second.
things got way scattered briefly after the tie but eventually OJ was obliterated with votes in the end.
if we're lucky, scum will flip at the beginning of day 2 and we'll get some good info after that.

 

[Illuminati member 3]

Fanto, on your specific question, I think my vote post explained my state of mind then. I also wanted to see what came off the tie between Oliver x Stu, especially after Stu just left his vote on Puns. I also hadn’t seen that indirect defense post from Swamped where she said the arguments against her were “vibes”.

My vote is sitting ducks. Maol is off the radar again, I guess.


I liked Swamped during most of the phase and I don't think those last whiffs changed much of that. Her vote for Stuart sucked, but it is EoD. Am I losing something else?


Right now, I'm on Oliver. Really wanted to see more of him today, but he's not doing himself any favors.


VOTE: Oliver James