flatearthpandas
Round Moon Bears
Welcome to the September discussion of Exhalation by Ted Chiang. Unfortunately, I was not able to read this month's book but I'm very much looking forward to reading everyone's thoughts. Have at it!
When the experimental subjects were frightened by strange, loud objects, such as teddy bears beating drums, monkeys raised by terry cloth surrogates made bodily contact with their mothers, rubbed against them, and eventually calmed down. Harlow theorized that they used their mothers as a “psychological base of operations,” allowing them to remain playful and inquisitive after the initial fright had subsided. In contrast, monkeys raised by wire mesh surrogates did not retreat to their mothers when scared. Instead, they threw themselves on the floor, clutched themselves, rocked back and forth, and screamed in terror.
Software Objects didn't really work for me as a story but I was wondering if part of it was because I didn't have kids or a reference for that feeling that the main character felt. That scene where one of the Digients first came into the 'real world' was a very sweet moment though and one of my favorites in the story. How they could see the little pores and surface textures being just so fascinating to them really did feel like a childlike moment of discovery.I read them all very quickly this month, as the short story nature of the book lent itself well to reading entire swathes of the book in one go.
I’ll admit, lifecycle of software objects was a really hard read for me. Having three children, all at young ages seeing the software engineers develop feelings for these objects that for lack of a human body exhumed this childlike wonder and knowledge of their surrounding it was hard.
I was going through some stuff as well so this one almost broke me of reading the whole thing, after exhalation which was also So SO SO sad.
I have more thoughts on omphalos and anxiety, but I want to read others thoughts too
What did you not like about Omphalos?I thought the collection was okay. I only really enjoyed three of the stories - The Merchant and the Alchemist’s Gate, Lifecycle of Software Objects, and The Great Silence. The rest were merely okay, with the exception of Dacey’s Patent Automatic Nanny and Omphalos - neither of which I liked at all.
Of the ones I didn’t list - they all just felt very generic. I guess Exhalation wasn’t generic, but it wasn’t particularly engaging either which is why it gets lumped in with the other average stories.
I don’t want to seem like a complete downer - the stories that I enjoyed I enjoyed a lot. I actually talked them up enough that my fiancé is reading the book currently. I think maybe I just went in with higher expectations that I should have.
Both of the ones I listed as not liking were primarily because I found them to be boring. I suspect due to the topics they’re riffing I’m just fundamentally not being ones that interest me much, even with understanding what it was putting a sci-fi spin on. I don’t think anything was particularly poorly written or done, just didn’t find them all to be engaging.What did you not like about Omphalos?
I do understand the generic feeling though. The 3 stories you listed that you enjoyed did feel like they had a point to tell about their story while ones like Exhalation and What's Expected of Us did not have as strong of a point. I do think that the worlds they create or help you imagine are the real takeaways for those but it's to each their own. The world created in Exhalation was just so interesting to think of and pick apart.
Also I didn't quite like The Alchemists' Gate at first but it gave me the feeling of being intended as a retelling of 1001 nights' The Ruined Man Who Became Rich Through a Dream so I warmed to it when I noticed, I haven't read 1001 nights, does anyone think there are more stories referenced on it?
In the back of the book it has a good breakdown of each story and where the author got their ideas from for each story.
I’ll admit, lifecycle of software objects was a really hard read for me. Having three children, all at young ages seeing the software engineers develop feelings for these objects that for lack of a human body exhumed this childlike wonder and knowledge of their surrounding it was hard.
I was going through some stuff as well so this one almost broke me of reading the whole thing, after exhalation which was also So SO SO sad.
Omphalos for some reason really didn;'t land with me. Part of it might have been the heavy reliance on religion, which typically falls flat and misses me completely. The whole crisis of faith story concept as a whole is tough for me to relate to, even if I would have enjoyed reading a different plot in that type of world.
It's worth pointing out that Automatic Nanny was originally published as part of a "themed" short story compilation by different authors, which was supposed to work like a "cabinet of curiosities", so that's why it's not so much a story as much as it is a "description" of a hypothetical item. It still didn't do much for me other than making me think, this doesn't sound farfetched enough for me to immediately disbelieve it :PI think the ones that fell flattest for me were the Automatic Nanny and Omphalos. Automatic Nanny I feel like I just didn't understand at the end, and while it's definitely interesting to see the parallels to real experiments which Sawneeks pointed out, I still don't really feel like it was a very well told story personally, and it didn't impact me any. I did appreciate the style of writing used here though, it felt very much like something from that time period which was cool to read.
One of my main dislikes of Truth of Fact, Truth of Feeling was the Black Mirror retread but it was also the way that European expansion of ideas was portrayed. It's somewhat touched on since Tiv ends up learning that that the 'new European way' was going to cause more problems than good but the problem of forcing a religion on another group, teaching them western ideals as the 'proper' way, and so on is just sort of there. Given how much Chiang comments on different aspects of humanity I was a little surprised, and disappointed, that goes relatively unacknowledged through the story.I loved most of the stories. If I had to pick favorites, they'd probably be The Merchant and the Alchemist Gate and The Truth of Fact, The Truth of Feeling.
Alchemist Gate really captures the feeling of an Arabian Nights-esque story, it reads like a parable and I really enjoyed how the stories-within-the-story intertwined. I don't know if I agree with the conclusion of the "author" in Truth of Fact, Truth of Feeling, but the way it uses "reading and writing" to show how much technology reshapes the way our minds work blew me away. I definitely liked the Tiv story more than the "remem" one. That felt too similar to a Black Mirror episode to me, lol.
Which is why my least favorite would be What's Expected of Us. The best thing I can say about it is it was as short as it needed to be, at least.
Before reading the book I had already read Exhalation and Lifecycle; the first one is also one of my favorites; just the right length to say what it wanted to say, and expertly written. Lifecycle feels too long, but I understand what the author was going for with making it feel like "a childhood" for the reader too, growing up with the characters and coming to understand their identity as "persons".
Ratings:
- "The Merchant and the Alchemist's Gate"
- "Exhalation"
- "What's Expected of Us"
- "The Lifecycle of Software Objects"
- "Dacey's Patent Automatic Nanny"
- "The Truth of Fact, the Truth of Feeling"
- "The Great Silence"
- "Omphalos"
- "Anxiety is the Dizziness of Freedom"
Wow I'm just now realizing how much I have no idea what half of these stories are in retrospect. The titles alone aren't doing it for me in recalling, so that's uh... maybe not a great sign? On a whole I definitely enjoyed it, even if I found some of the stories to be a drag to read through at times.
.
Personally it's just a fun thing to imagine. Too much media is focused on other intelligence outside of humanity being hostile or war-driven so seeing one, even a minor one, being sympathetic and even encouraging was really nice. It's somewhat similar to the feeling of how Exhalation ended. It just ends on an optimistic note.Wow, if only I had read the last story >.> Didn't have time to read that one so I stopped the book at Omphalos.
Learning about the inspiration for The Great Silence made me appreciate it more, but I'd rather have read about the real life event than to imagine that parrots are as capable to think rationally as humans; that was a little beyond my suspension of disbelief.
Honestly I'm with Zipped on this. I was raised in a christian religion and the way the main character and the University Professor went through their loss of faith was something I immediately recognized. It's hard to totally describe how something a person holds dear and shapes so much of their world view can get torn down and shattered into pieces but Chiang gets really close with it here. Even the way the main character describes how they stopped praying and only went back later after the anger, doubt, and sadness ebbed away was fairly accurate.I have not read his other book of short stories, but I had seen the movie based on one of his stories and thought it was good!
Omphalos...
As a relatively religious person, I found it absolutely fascinating to explore a world where proof of a god, creation and the beginnings of the universe existed, only to find out that it all exists not for you and your planet but another further planet. That everything you hold dear really revolves around another existence and sentience.
Not everything having a purpose was one of the main sticking points for Omphalos, wasn't it? We end up learning the humans aren't there on purpose and whatever is at the center of the universe is. Though I did find it neat how everything did have a defined 'start' point that was visible through almost everything that went back far enough. Technically the same can be argued about what we have now but it's less 'here's a solid ring in a tree' and more 'the Earth is this old but asteroids are like way older so wtf'.I touched on that earlier, but having it be the first set wrong expectations to me, because I assumed that stories would have different time periods and places and instead they were modern tales that discussed sci-fi from a western point of view mostly. It still would be my favorite because the topic itself was the most interesting to me, though.
On Omphalos, I did find wonder in imagining a word where all things clearly have a purpose, and there are explicit, visible signs that point to the beginning of time.
I feel the same way! So far all of these stories are something I likely wouldn't have read on my own so I'm glad we have this going. :>I've only read the first 4 stories, just finished Life Cycle. I'm really liking this so far! Especially loved the first story, and how all the little stories inside were connected. I loved Exhalation too, didn't feel like a typical "story". Actually, Exhalation left me with more of a despondent feeling than Life Cycles lol.
The third story is is just kinda nothing, but I did appreciate the return to the theme of a pre-determined future, which came up in The Merchant and the Alchemist too. What's Expected of Us evokes more of a feeling of uselessness, but I think the first story is more effective.
I really enjoyed Life Cycles. I'm not sure what I got out of it though. The ending was satisfactory, but that it - I wanted an ending that made me feel something more. I guess I should have felt more when Derek sends his digients off, but I personally was more invested in Ana's story. And Jax ends up just fine. I dunno, maybe I am missing some subtlety with this one. With a title like "life cycle" I was expecting some kind of end to the digients but I'm glad it wasn't that overt because that would have been heartbreaking.
On to the next few stories!
I'm just so proud of myself for finding the time to read some meaningful books through this book club, so thanks!
Yeah, I was referring to how the story was before the big reveal, where humans *thought* there was an explanation for their existence and everything else.Not everything having a purpose was one of the main sticking points for Omphalos, wasn't it? We end up learning the humans aren't there on purpose and whatever is at the center of the universe is.