https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12ofuzp7vWkYR_uO7GZUNPN4f_zJ0PpR3g2wcKslG5O0/edit?usp=sharing
Hey, feel free to ask any questions.
Hey, feel free to ask any questions.
Risk Mafia
- Thread starter Geno
- Start date
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
So basically what I'm getting here is it's a normal mafia game, except people can also die if they lose all their battalions and territory? Do I have that right?
I'm also a little puzzled by you making Nobunaga (a man known pretty much for having guns and using brutal tactics) a ninja.
I'm also a little puzzled by you making Nobunaga (a man known pretty much for having guns and using brutal tactics) a ninja.
Basically yeah, as for Nobunaga the powers are usually random, didn't really try to connect them except for some cases like Hannibal, Gandhi and maybe Justinian. Most of these would end up having similar roles if I had to go by what they were.
lokiduck
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Okay this is def a lot to take in, but I'll try and focus on the mafia powers for now.
I see then. Some of the powers felt like they fit their person pretty good so I assumed that was the case for everyone.
I see then. Some of the powers felt like they fit their person pretty good so I assumed that was the case for everyone.
lokiduck
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It's fine. I'm a pretty big history nerd (esepcially about Russia) so stuff like this is a nitpick for me (like not being really sure about Peter the great being just a protector). XD
Either way it's your game so I'll let you do what you want there. Edit: Also some of these powers will probably be way more accurate than they will be historical figures showing up in my Fate games. XD
Either way it's your game so I'll let you do what you want there. Edit: Also some of these powers will probably be way more accurate than they will be historical figures showing up in my Fate games. XD
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lokiduck
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So far I like that you filled town with a variety of powers some of which are only for the risk aspect of the game. I feel like with figuring out the balancing tho, we'll have to split powers into two groups of "Mafia powers" and "Risk powers" to see if all the factions are balanced.
lokiduck
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Mafia's mafia powers
- 1 shot vig and 2 shot rolecop
- Godfather
- 2 shot ninja and investigation proof
- 2 shot strong man
Town mafia powers
-Multivoter
-Masons one of which is loved.
-Vig
-Innocent Child
- 3 shot switch
- 2 shot protect
- 3 Shot doc
- 2 shot redirector
- Miller
- Watcher
- 3 shot cop
Nobu seems like a good counter to the watcher and cop for sure, while the miller and GF also serves as a counter to them. The strong man as the counter to the protective roles.
Personally town might have too many protective roles, but with the strongman shots, and since the protective powers are for territories in the risk game I guess it balances out a bit?
I'm a bit concerned about the Neutrals tho. XD
- 1 shot vig and 2 shot rolecop
- Godfather
- 2 shot ninja and investigation proof
- 2 shot strong man
Town mafia powers
-Multivoter
-Masons one of which is loved.
-Vig
-Innocent Child
- 3 shot switch
- 2 shot protect
- 3 Shot doc
- 2 shot redirector
- Miller
- Watcher
- 3 shot cop
Nobu seems like a good counter to the watcher and cop for sure, while the miller and GF also serves as a counter to them. The strong man as the counter to the protective roles.
Personally town might have too many protective roles, but with the strongman shots, and since the protective powers are for territories in the risk game I guess it balances out a bit?
I'm a bit concerned about the Neutrals tho. XD
lokiduck
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That makes sense. It was as I said, the protective powers being for territories does help balance it a bit.
I haven't played Risk in years but my first gut instinct is this feels more like Civ than Risk. Like Civ with a mod or something (the neutral dino). The map's all Risk, though.
I agree here, though, this is nice.
Can you spell the endgame and win conditions out step by step for me? I need to see that a little more clearly before I really evaluate powers, I think.
I agree here, though, this is nice.
Can you spell the endgame and win conditions out step by step for me? I need to see that a little more clearly before I really evaluate powers, I think.
The idea for the endgame is that when 1 side comes out on top, mafia or town, the game continues as a risk only game with no mafia mechanics, the winner of that is the ultimate winner of the game, but like I said it's a bit too wild maybe. I guess the pitch would be Role Madness with Unique experimental mechanics and a map? Something like that, closest I can think of would be monopoly mafia.
Well if town wins Gandhi wins no matter what, that player leaves the game because at that point they can't conquer or be conquered. Then it proceeds and yeah maybe just Caesar wins or some other town. Like I said though I'm mixed here because depending on the bonus there's roles that are favored here. Plus some townie that hasn't really been focusing on conquering will be understandably upset when they think they won but got trolled and told there can be only one. So yeah the endgame part is most likely getting canned
lokiduck
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Agree that ditching the post game mechanic might be good. However, you could always ask the remaining town players if they want to see who the "bonus winner is."
Basically town wins if they do get all of scum, but then the remaining townies see who gets the bonus win but only if they want to. XD
Basically town wins if they do get all of scum, but then the remaining townies see who gets the bonus win but only if they want to. XD
lokiduck
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Yeah I like that :D I need to find out why my like button isn't here in this thread. XD
YOU'RE JUST NOT AS COOL AS I AM I GUESS
lokiduck
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It might be because I had the mafia team remove my liking privileges for Greed island (to keep my temptation of liking things in game threads at bay XD I'll go contact Captain about that.)
lokiduck
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Well then... we'll just have to do something about that >:( I'll message review chat then. :D
See you guys later. :D
I missed this, what was the concern you had?
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Ok. So if i understand this correctly. This is mafia. But also a game of Risk.
And if you die in Risk, you die in real life the mafia game. So Risk tactics and making alliances in Risk is key to giving town the edge.
I echo Monkey's sentiment that the game needs to be properly advertised so people know what they are getting into.
I'm not clear about the structure of the Risk game within the game. I get players move their reinforcements during the day and attack at night but I don't understand how the game get sped up with moves happening every 8 hours.
And if you die in Risk, you die in
I echo Monkey's sentiment that the game needs to be properly advertised so people know what they are getting into.
I'm not clear about the structure of the Risk game within the game. I get players move their reinforcements during the day and attack at night but I don't understand how the game get sped up with moves happening every 8 hours.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I have a couple of problems with the role names.
All the 20th Century names are mafia and generally held to be awful people compared to the town who are regarded as world leaders and not primarily associated with genocide.
I don't think Saddam Hussein belongs in this game as he never controlled vast areas of territory. I also think Hitler is going to be controversial because he is still idolised by white supremacists and anti-semites. I think there are enough central european imperial rulers that we can do without Hitler.
And where are the women? British Queen's Elizabeth and Victoria were the bookends of the British Empire. Catherine the Great for Russia. Cleopatra for Egypt. I know it ins't a vast list but lets mix it up a bit.
All the 20th Century names are mafia and generally held to be awful people compared to the town who are regarded as world leaders and not primarily associated with genocide.
I don't think Saddam Hussein belongs in this game as he never controlled vast areas of territory. I also think Hitler is going to be controversial because he is still idolised by white supremacists and anti-semites. I think there are enough central european imperial rulers that we can do without Hitler.
And where are the women? British Queen's Elizabeth and Victoria were the bookends of the British Empire. Catherine the Great for Russia. Cleopatra for Egypt. I know it ins't a vast list but lets mix it up a bit.
I think you're getting hung up on the role names, they're mostly just that. As for Cleopatra I had her but swapped to Tut because Cleopatra is Greek and I wanted an Egyptian known leader, I can change to Nefertiti though. I mostly went for iconicness which is why Peter the Great is in instead of Catherine who I thought was more popular, I can swap though it's no problem. Not all people on here had vast territorries for example, as for Hitler I can swap him but because he's an important part of history I'd like to keep him.
lokiduck
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I like the change, but I do agree with Faddy that maybe we should go with more less obvious controversal figures. Nobunaga works fine as scum (since he can pass as town and scum), so maybe we should go with some world leaders who wouldn't be expected but fit the role none the less?
Teach as a neutral is a good idea tho :D
I'm mostly just wondering what protection they have from both the scum and town powers.
Peter the Great is very popular in the sense that he made the Russian Empire itself (also making it more European and establishing it's Navy), but Katherine is also very popular and respected because even though she was actually German, she fully adapted to Russian society and was a million times more appealing than her idiot husband who she had "accidentally strangled."
However, I do feel she is better for the role you gave Peter originally because she ruled the Russian Empire when it was at it's largest (because they still had Alaska LOL). She also had to deal with the Crimean War and several revolts all while the French Revolution was making royals in Europe nervous. She's an excellent choice for a protective power.
Hmm, ok then I'll change to Catherine, with the other 2 I proposed it should be enough representation I think? Unless there's any other ideas. Btw Lmao wasn't Catherine's husband the one playing with toys in his like 20s? So ok if we remove Saddam, Hitler and Mao who do we put, 1 gotta be chinese to represent the country.
I won't lie my history is failing on who I can swap these 3 with that are leaders of ambiguous nature like Nobunaga. Especially with China who I have not read in the slightest aside from Sun Yat Sen which has nothing to do with this lmao.
You do raise a good point here, my problem is that if they're too powerful because of the nature of the game the more powerful you are the more the other players will be raising their eyebrows being like hmmm.
lokiduck
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Attila the Hun was not the villain of Mulan. We just had a thread about that. XDhttps://www.resetera.com/threads/ho...ng-to-me-at-least.207333/page-2#post-34295601
lokiduck
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No i don't believe that was him. He was hated by the Russian people because he came from a Polish family, Spoke Polish, and tried to convert everyone to Roman Catholicism when Russians are Russian Orthodox. XD
As for Chinese leaders, there are a lot of them, but since we want some female rep, what about Wu Zeitan? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Zetian
Sounds really good for the Neutrals.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Also Attila wasn't really from the Middle East and more of Romania/Central Asia.
I'm sure there is a Middle Eastern Ruler we can think of... maybe even an ancient one.
Speaking of Central Asia... I just realized how perfect it is you made Genghis Khan a Miller LOL
Yeah I know he wasn't technically the Mulan villain but I thought thay was who they were trying to portray, geographically it should've been mongols probably. I'm not specifically looking for someone from the Middle East, anyone could do but if we can find one that's cool. Wu Zeitan will do for Chinese
lokiduck
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In that case, maybe Attila the Hun could work if we can't figure out anyone else that'd be cool.
lokiduck
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I think Attila the Hun works then. XD
I was looking for more shady people that can pass as both scum and town but I guess these could do, can also do Otto Von Bismarck since he's pretty important.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
It's true we should pick people like Nobu who are bit more ambiguous on alignment but in someway having a ruler that could pass as town might be good for the scum team. XD
If you can figure out a lore reason why they might work together it works. One option I was sort of thinking when looking into possible middle Eastern Rulers was maybe picking someone who had a known rivalry with a town world leader?
For example Tsar Alexander I was Catherine's Grandson who fought against Napoleon, and their rivalry/bromance was strong that people shipped them together. XD (THIS IS LEGIT)
We can't use Alexander because we are using Catherine, but if we picked a rival of a town role or even multiple roles, lore could explain why they'd be on the mafia team even if they were a "good ruler."
If you can figure out a lore reason why they might work together it works. One option I was sort of thinking when looking into possible middle Eastern Rulers was maybe picking someone who had a known rivalry with a town world leader?
For example Tsar Alexander I was Catherine's Grandson who fought against Napoleon, and their rivalry/bromance was strong that people shipped them together. XD (THIS IS LEGIT)
We can't use Alexander because we are using Catherine, but if we picked a rival of a town role or even multiple roles, lore could explain why they'd be on the mafia team even if they were a "good ruler."
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I agree out of those two.
In my head the lore of the game would be mad scientist builds a machine that revives important people around the world but they rise to power and start WW3.
Btw went with Bismarck in the end, it's fine we don't necessarily need ambiguous leaders. As for the roles I think it's pretty balanced overall now that I added a 3rd neutral, since town was a bit more powerful.
Btw went with Bismarck in the end, it's fine we don't necessarily need ambiguous leaders. As for the roles I think it's pretty balanced overall now that I added a 3rd neutral, since town was a bit more powerful.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Sounds juicy and simple I like it. I'd hate to the world leaders that have your country just randomly taken over by long dead older leaders. XD
True. I think our Scum team is a nice selection. At the very least flavor wise we can say they are leaders in a super secret alliance mainly to take out the others (maybe with plans to overthrow each other once they are the last four).
LOL sorry about the last part, I'm a flavor junky.
I do agree that it's more balanced now, though we may want to take a second look over the Risk based powers just to make sure. Either way we should probably wait on Faddy to see what he thinks of the balance as well.
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lokiduck
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While it'd be amazing to have Capone as Mafia in a game (A Godfather nonetheless LOL) But he really doesn't fit the world conquering type. XD
(As a surprise whacky neutral tho
)
/S
Goddamn it don't give me ideas haha I just added a neutralWhile it'd be amazing to have Capone as Mafia in a game (A Godfather nonetheless LOL) But he really doesn't fit the world conquering type. XD
(As a surprise whacky neutral tho/S
lokiduck
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\o/ The sequel :D :D :D
For sure will have it on my mind if I get around to a sequel.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Yep I figured. But it's good to provide a good mixture so different kinds of players can pick the ones that appeal to them.
I had a blast in HvV2 but I was really overwhelmed by all the players so player wise I like small games. As for big vs small Game Running wise, we'll see after our first game happens LOL.
I had a blast in HvV2 but I was really overwhelmed by all the players so player wise I like small games. As for big vs small Game Running wise, we'll see after our first game happens LOL.
Depends on the free time you have I guess, if you have lots then big games are more fun because more posts are always more fun imo.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Of the modern ones I am least against Mao being included. He is in the long term of global power dynamics a leading figure of huge historic significance. If you wanted to put him back in that would be fine imo.
I think the other role name changes you made are good.
---
I'm reading through all the roles and have a couple of questions about the Dinosaurs. Is it right that Cleopatra is given knowledge of dinos?
I think it would be helpful if you gave us the game map in its initial state to give a better idea of what the game is going to look like.
---
Do players vote someone out during the day phase?
I think the other role name changes you made are good.
---
I'm reading through all the roles and have a couple of questions about the Dinosaurs. Is it right that Cleopatra is given knowledge of dinos?
I think it would be helpful if you gave us the game map in its initial state to give a better idea of what the game is going to look like.
---
Do players vote someone out during the day phase?
It's fine, the new Chinese person is female representation so I'll keep her in. Cleopatra doesn't have knowledge of dinos at game start, this is more for you guys, if she tries to do it then I'll mention that it's not possible. I'll do that in a bit yeah. And yeah all core mafia mechanics are still here.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
So mafia are going to have to use puppet territories to hide their night kills? Otherwise one of them is going to gain multiple territories during the night and be outed as scum.
And players die if they have no territory? On top of there being a lynch and mafia kill?
Mafia can use puppet territories if they want to but it's not mandatory, yes on the second question.
It's gonna look something like this(avatars are from HVV2 so outdated lol, also Vincent has a 10 above him which I forgot to put), number above territory is their batallions, if a player has 2 territories then the crown symbolises where the general is. It's gonna be a bit more polished obviously in the final version and I'm gonna have them in written form as well, the 2nd in commands are hidden from other players so they don't show up here.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
It's gonna look something like this(avatars are from HVV2 so outdated lol, also Vincent has a 10 above him which I forgot to put), number above territory is their batallions, if a player has 2 territories then the crown symbolises where the general is. It's gonna be a bit more polished obviously in the final version and I'm gonna have them in written form as well, the 2nd in commands are hidden from other players so they don't show up here.
Ok it is day 1.
Kalor and Ketkat have decided Chuggs is full of crap. Isn't it easy for them to clear chuggs off the board right away.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
LOL on the map, sounds like a lot of work your end, but the visual will help.
So from what I understand of the game... Basically day phases will be mixed up with Risk phases and voting phases.
Basically during the risk phases, players move into territories and attack each other and if someone loses all their batallions they are dead.
during the none risk phases players will probably be voting, scum hunting and analyzing dead players. At the end of day, someone is lunched and their territories are opened up.
then at night, all the night movements happen along with night actions.
So from what I understand of the game... Basically day phases will be mixed up with Risk phases and voting phases.
Basically during the risk phases, players move into territories and attack each other and if someone loses all their batallions they are dead.
during the none risk phases players will probably be voting, scum hunting and analyzing dead players. At the end of day, someone is lunched and their territories are opened up.
then at night, all the night movements happen along with night actions.
Not that easy because it's tricky to kill the general, you could lose a lot of batallions until you do that, with few attacks per day it's not that easy to eliminate someone early game.
Very correct, that's the gist of it except that there are no risk phases, risk and voting happens at the same time
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I was more of referring how it seems the attacks seem to be happen at specific times during the day phase?
Or did I read that wrong and people can just attack whenever they want as long as it's during the day phase? XD
That is a concern for sure, but hopefully the protective powers will help keep some of the more risk taking players alive.
However, since this is ultimately a mafia game, maybe most players will try and balance it out instead of taking too many risks.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Based on how previous games with other mechanics like minigames have gone, I believe there will definitely be points when players focus more on scumhunting and voting instead of the risk portions.
I guess my only concern is the mechanic taking up too much time of the day phase and there not being enough data for town to use for their scum hunting.
Have the attacks be initiated by players does work because it means players in different time zones will be able to participate and not miss out on the set times given.
I guess my only concern is the mechanic taking up too much time of the day phase and there not being enough data for town to use for their scum hunting.
Have the attacks be initiated by players does work because it means players in different time zones will be able to participate and not miss out on the set times given.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Decided to look over the bonuses each player gets when on their home territory, mainly to see how much the balance out. I think over all the bonuses are a nice way of giving players an extra boost with out making them super OP and seem fairly easy to do if the player can get their territory. It'll be interesting to see what people do to get them as well especially if forced to claim why they need a particular place.
However, I feel like the hardest bonus to pull off with be for Katherine since she needs to own five territories at once (however I wouldn't change it at all because that makes perfect sense for her.
I also like the bonuses you gave the scum team (though two of them have the same bonus?) Nobunaga's especially fits him really good.
Same with the neutrals too.
However, I feel like the hardest bonus to pull off with be for Katherine since she needs to own five territories at once (however I wouldn't change it at all because that makes perfect sense for her.
I also like the bonuses you gave the scum team (though two of them have the same bonus?) Nobunaga's especially fits him really good.
Same with the neutrals too.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Also decided to look over the neutrals (sorry for the multiple posts. I do this a lot as your probably noticed from reviewing my games) and def like the changes you made. Having Nero be unable to burn Blackbeard's territories he needs is a good way of balancing them out since they also have to clash with scum and town.
I still imagine all three neutrals will get in the way of each other while trying to achieve their win cons, but that makes it fun doesn't it :D
I like the neutrals a lot though because they seem very anti town and like good obstacles for both town and scum but in different ways.
Nero: He burns territories making them unusable for claiming which will limit the territories peeps can fight over causing more competition especially with this many players.
Teach: his win come of owning territories on the connecting paths prevents people from traveling more, making him a big target if he does claim them, so his win con isn't easy.
T-Rex: Works almost like an infection even in death, spreading across the map and cause issues for the other neutrals, scum, and town.
I still imagine all three neutrals will get in the way of each other while trying to achieve their win cons, but that makes it fun doesn't it :D
I like the neutrals a lot though because they seem very anti town and like good obstacles for both town and scum but in different ways.
Nero: He burns territories making them unusable for claiming which will limit the territories peeps can fight over causing more competition especially with this many players.
Teach: his win come of owning territories on the connecting paths prevents people from traveling more, making him a big target if he does claim them, so his win con isn't easy.
T-Rex: Works almost like an infection even in death, spreading across the map and cause issues for the other neutrals, scum, and town.
Yeah I didn't want the Risk portion to take up too much time that's why players have a very limited amount of attacks. I gave the same at 2 mafia members because universal kills are pretty important I feel like, even with puppet territories. Yeah blackbeard's win con is pretty tough that's why I made him start in 1 of them. Yeah Ukraine is huge on the map for no reason lol.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Yeah I saw that. It also prevents players from just trying to conquer a bunch of territory too fast and may even prevent less deaths right away, unless a bunch of players decide to gang up on someone for no reason. xD However... I kind of wonder if any players will just straight up start day 1 with an attack. XD
That makes sense then. :D Plus it means that if one of them gets killed, they have someone to fall back on along with having a higher chance of using it since they have to be in their territory.
That makes sense then. If he can hold on to it and get to the other territories (which is hard since you have to get to those travel points) he might be able to pull it off though. That is ultimately what makes his wincon work in the end.