Gossip Thread MGS Mafia |Gossip| Night 5

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
tenor.gif
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Hello and welcome!

As you know I'm the town gossip. One thing I didn't mention, and Ephi and Fate know this, is that I'm also able to lie detect a post in this chat and get the result at the end of the night. I messed up night one by asking the wrong question which is why I lean town on Ephi but am not sure, whereas with Fate I'm way more sure.

So if I can ask you a question, are you a member of the Town?
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I am currently one of the Good Guys. Although I wasn't at the start of the game.

I took Ty's role and alignment after he died. i was kind of worried he was going to flip mafia because I hate playing as mafia.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
My role PM said the person who died on day 1 but Natiko denied that I got Feign's role. He said he meant it was the player voted out day 1. And if no one was voted out I would be neutral.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
That feels so long ago I had to go back and check what his role was haha

Have you done anything yet? And why so sure on Zeke?
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I didn't get to use a command on night 1 since I took the role at the start of of day 2.

I roleblocked Zeke on night 2.
night 3 recharge
night 4 I commuted
night 5 recharge

The lack of bombs, poisons and kills on day 3 made me even more suspect of Zeke. And I really believe the tailor thing because the role that flipped lacked instructions. Like there is nothing that tells him what to do but he has a very powerful role if he just happen to know MGS lore and mess about? Not believable.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I was reading L_Ps post to look for where his partners is. Looking back I now don't think it is Verelios. If Vere is scum he is probably on the other scum team. It is really weird to me that a partner hasn't claimed. Like it is easy to narrow it down to who it could be since a whole bunch of people have voted on Vere.

I was pretty confident that Zeke was on Chuggs team just from all the stuff he was saying about getting blocked and his prickliness at Jman being ressurected. Because looking at LP's flip it seems like they killed Jman on night 1 with LP's shot obviously not worrying about the bomb defuser being revived.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
I don't even disagree with you on Zeke really. It does look weird and if someone that gets the role and hasn't played MGS that's a lot of just guessing and I guess spamming Natiko with PM's? The codec he said he used was odd as well, Big Boss from MGS1?

That's why I'm trying to push us towards ATP's list, my only worry there is that Zeke is the only scum on that list but I don't see it, not with Kalor, Vere and Fanto.

Night two was no night kill, no bombs (that we know of), fox die was on Leo. Jman was dead so almost certainly they'd have tried to bomb someone if they were OK with infecting someone.

So Vere and Zeke were roleblocked. Monkey was commuted by Hawthorn. If Vere is scum he's likely Team Liquid since I think him and LP would have claimed LP as the second mason. Zeke could have been the bomber, Vere the night killer. Monkey is a possibility but I'd flip Vere first, that's a pretty easy call.

I've been looking at the votes and also the reveals so far and the only people that could be a mason with Vere is:

Stan
Sky
Ephi
Neki
Kopite
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Right now my top scum are:

Vere - roleblocked night two with no kill or bomb, his reveal smells, his breadcrumb for that sleepwalking part is basic mafia stuff when you're doing mafia kills and need something to point back to. Refusal to name his mason (I think he said even if he was voted out)
Kalor - I don't think LP actually moved last night, that part was true imo. So someone either moved him, or Kalor lied as he knows he's under pressure and thinks getting rid of scum from another team might buy him some days.
Fanto - Been null/scum read for a while now and that vote on Monkey after the LP reveal was not good.
Stan - For days been "ignore flavour!" then today when Kalor said he was Quiet and LP said he was the goggles he completely accepted it as flavour, and even suggested the flavour for LP. He also went all in on Sparks, knew Sparks would be an easy target? Could have lied about moving, felt like a distraction for LP no matter how much he protests.

Most likely scum oder - Vere > Kalor > Fanto = Stan

Those last two I'm not sure on but I haven't really liked their plays for townie points.

Kopite is someone I could swap for Fanto or Stan. He pops up at the most opportune times it feels like.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
None of those people have claimed right? Stan was baiting Sparks about moving in the night so he does something but he didn't actually claim. it could be a sleepwalking pair with Vere.

I don't know how to feel about not claiming masons. If people are going to scum read you before you flip it isn't going to stop speculation one of you is scum after a flip.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Yeah agree on that, although the obvious reason why you wouldn't claim is to be a night target for the kill as that's pretty good for town.

I was hoping Vere would have some pressure on him today just to see if he was prepared to reveal his other mason but the LP stuff happened.

One thing that gives me pause on Vere is we don't know if Scum are given fake / unused roles to claim as, Mason is high risk if they aren't given that info at they tend to be in most of the games from what I've seen.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I think Stan was scummy today. The push on Sparks is NAI for me. I think Stan does that in either way. But at the start of the day I think he was looking to push on me using the Zeke flip and was kind of mad that I wasn't just going along with the vanilla town flip.

Fanto has been kind of off with their big town defense of chuggs and the taxi driver thing trying to save LP. I think she has dropped off significantly. And looking to push on monkey at end of day felt a bit desperate. They did push Zeke on day 1.

It is definitely possible that Kalor made up the whole LP interaction. i understand what LP was saying in that it is basically futile for his team to do anything right now. Even if they infect someone they could be voted out or killed by the other team and all they are doing is confirming people are on their team.

I guess the really bold play would be infecting a team mate but only Leo has been infected so far. No way it is Kalor with LP because that would be galaxy brain and doesn't actually clear Kalor in a multi-team game.

Kopite has been a big nothing in the game. But i feel the same way about a few other people. Ephidel is non presence. Sky Odin has strong opinions sometimes but never has any follow through. And nin. IDK I thought he was kind of ton early on but as the game goes on he becomes more of a non-factor.

You dismissing the idea of scum!monkey?
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Now LP is dead I need to look at the votes. Some scum will be on him and we might be able to narrow it down.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
You dismissing the idea of scum!monkey?

For your long post I basically agree word for word.

As for Monkey, I would have her still below most people. If we think there is one scum left right near the end of the game I'd entertaining it then but not before I think. I know LP is wrong about FateShirou and he feels strongly about him so a good chance he's wrong about Monkey. I think it's most likely she got saved night two and they used a role cop on her and decided it wasn't worth going back based off that. They could always play the "it's day 5 why is Monkey still alive?" card which I did actually see a couple of people do so need to read that back.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
I think it's more interesting who isn't voting for LP or who voted late. As I really don't think his teammate would be on him if there is one.

Kopite is where I feel like his teammate could have dived in, maybe Nekki but that's at a push.

Then you have Stan, Nin and Fanto off the LP vote. Leo, Zipped and Fate as well but not counting them yet.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I think it's more interesting who isn't voting for LP or who voted late. As I really don't think his teammate would be on him if there is one.

Kopite is where I feel like his teammate could have dived in, maybe Nekki but that's at a push.

Then you have Stan, Nin and Fanto off the LP vote. Leo, Zipped and Fate as well but not counting them yet.

Stan or Fanto is the place i would look based on what they have said and done in the thread. I don't think it is Neki. I think neki was town on day 1 and I don't think that is someone to look at ever. Scum will probably leave them alive and make them solve the game.

Zipped and HP are interesting. They have claimed lovers although there was something about both of them not dying. i can't remember. I think it was that Zipped wouldn't die if he died. Definitely makes Zipped seem scummier.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
The lovers have both said they die if the other dies but Zipped didn't believe HP. That all seemed paranoid townies to me. Their chat sounds like it would be funny to read once this game is over.

Looking at votes, Vere never once ended up on Kalor when it got tight, and the one time he did vote for Kalor he switched to Hawthorn when it actually mattered.

Read from his vote on Kalor here - https://www.resetera.com/threads/me...after-i-kill-you.394645/page-78#post-61556962

Until the end of the day. I really do think it could be Vere, Kalor + one more. Vere experienced enough to try the frame job on LP I think.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Did that lovers thing get cleared up. I'm going to be honest I skim a lot and generally don't care about being wrong on facts because who corrects you and how is always a good way to get reads imo.

Vere was on Kalor pretty late but did switch quickly.

I think Vere and Kalor is plausible but I don't feel like that interaction implicates Kalor. i think it is more mechanics that makes kalor scummy.

You were talking about scum having fake claims, if kalor is scum then probably not. I really think he is a Watcher. The other thing that doesn't make sense with Kalor and Vere being together is that then they were also faking the sleepwalker stuff.

So I like only one of them as mafia.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Yeah the lovers thing was cleared up but we still don't really know for sure if one of them isn't scum. I think not though.

Yeah that doesn't implicate Kalor, more of a Vere thing. That makes sense the sleepwalker stuff actually, probably not on the same scum team then. Kalor very unlikely to be a patriot now, and Vere unlikely to also be a patriot since he'd have had LP claim Mason instead? Which means if one of them is scum the other isn't.

I think that actually makes it easier to flip one and get info on the second as I really don't think both are town. That would be surprising.

If we think fake roles were given (I'm thinking less likely) then Vere would be more likely the scum, but without fake roles then Kalor since his can work for either alignment and also keeps any cop from checking him since he's keen to out everyone that goes near him. Without fake roles Vere's is a very risk role reveal. I mean he could still be mason and scum but urgh, I don't want to think about that.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Unless something happens tomorrow, and it almost certainly will, I think I'd vote Kalor. I don't think LP moved and the jump from not moving to being taxi driven or whatever it was is pretty big. I think it's more likely Kalor just lied.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
since he'd have had LP claim Mason instead?

I don't think that would have worked. People were already scum reading both of them and not believing the mason claim. If LP and Zipped confirmed each other as masons it was just going to end up with them both dead very quickly.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Vere not zipped.

Mixing those two up is something I used to do a lot. No idea why.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
I don't think that would have worked. People were already scum reading both of them and not believing the mason claim. If LP and Zipped confirmed each other as masons it was just going to end up with them both dead very quickly.

I think LP was mostly null/town read until Kalor posted that thing about him visiting (I'd have to check that Monkey post where she collected peoples lists to be sure). That's when Vere and LP could have confirmed each other (but not each others alignment). You could be right though that they thought it was too risky.

LP also has Vere on his list. Maybe he puts a teammate on that list but I think unlikely it's Vere.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Right last post tonight and keeping it simple

ATP's list is Vere, Fanto, Kalor

Vere and Kalor unlikely on the same team due to the sleepwalking thing

Kalor not on LP's team

Fanto's voting is bad. Put a lazy vote (see below!) on Kalor to make it Hawthorn 9 - 4 Kalor when there was no real danger on Kalor. It then goes 10 Kalor - 9 Hawthorn and Fanto votes for Hawthorn to make it 10-10.


Fanto would work as a pair of scum with Kalor, less so for Vere since she voted for him quite early when he was under pressure day three.

I would probably vote Kalor tomorrow and depending on flip look at Fanto.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Looking at votes again, Vere is early on LP. Could be a bus but I think more likely he just isn't a patriot. Vere and Kalor unlikely to be on the same team because of the sleepwalker stuff, feels like the second scum team may have tried to set up Vere the previous night but then were successful with LP. They probably have a redirect so did Vere into Kalor to score some legitimacy incase he knew who he visited and they probably thought LP was still visiting people each night so did him as well but it falls apart as soon as you believe he didn't go anywhere. Kalor doesn't even need to be a self watcher, that could be a fake claim they're using to set people up.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
If Kalor flips scum then I think Fanto does too, after that I dunno. Could be someone quiet.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Focusing on the list from ATP:

Vere:

If scum is not on the same team as Kalor. The sleepwalking stuff into Kalor wouldn't make sense as a setup for either of them if they were. Kalor was also happy to jump on the Vere vote quite late on day three when Vere was really close to going. Vere could be a patriot or town/neutral.

Jman died day two. LP was still using Foxdie night two on Leo. Why would the bomber just stop then? If the foxdie infector (I used the word!) was happy to carry on during night two then there's no reason the bomber wouldn't either especially with Jman dead. Jman gets revived day three, so night three is where you probably give up bombing people as the other scum team aren't going to kill Jman yet. Does this mean on night two the bomber was roleblocked? Vere was roleblocked by ATP night two.

The role claim - The sleeping breadcrumb I'm not having as a point in Vere's favour simply because he's experienced enough to put something like that down if he's bombing or killing people at night and could be tracked. The mason claim is whatever really, a bit risky if scum don't get fake roles to claim but we don't know if that's the case.

The votes - Day two votes for Kenny over Chuggs. Day five is early enough on LP to try and make it look like he's not his teammate, knowing that vote could easily change if LP talks his way out of it, since all the days so far have been a mess of vote changing.

Kalor:

A lot of this will come down to do you believe LP would actually use his ability on night four? We had nothing on night three, he didn't say he used it night three, so why use it night four? Because I don't think he did. I think he was telling the truth, there was no point infecting people with Leo alive so why risk getting caught visiting someone. So if he didn't move anywhere, how did Kalor get infected and see LP do it? I don't think he was infected or saw LP visit and it was made up, I think the second scum team have a rolecop who targeted LP one night since he was town read and a low poster going off wagons etc and found out his role. Kalor has been under scrutiny so not likely to last too long so made up the claim, if Kalor gets another scum out then that might buy him some time, it might also be good for the second scum teams win condition, we dunno.

The second scum team may have a redirector and tried the same thing on Vere the night before to set him up. Inconclusive. If so they would have used the redirector on LP night four just in case he did move to someone else other than Kalor because then he gets counterclaimed having the foxdie.

A redirector wouldn't have worked on LP if he didn't actually move, that seems more like a taxi driver role someone mentioned. But that doesn't work either because that's not how the taxi driver works, it would have been LP getting infected and LP seeing Kalor visit him - https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Taxi_Driver

Thanks to Fanto for bringing this up


Fanto:

Fanto's votes have not been great

D1 - Zeke
D2 - Kenny
D3 - Starts early on Hawthorn, after that role reveal puts a lazy vote on Kalor to make it Hawthorn 9 votes, Kalor 4 votes


Later on Kalor starts catching up, Fanto posts -

I do think that I'm pretty ok with most, if not all, of the people voting Kalor right now though, so I do have that at least, I def feel like I'm voting with my Town reads here.

and it actually goes Kalor 10 votes, Hawthorn 9 votes, when Fanto then makes it 10-10.

Hasn't really done anything since early day two to make me think Town. Is on the list. Would be third choice vote though.

Kalor's flip gives us the most info. He's very very unlikely to be on the patriots team since he served up LP. If he flips scum then we have quite a few votes to go through for info.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Fanto votes continued:

D4 - Leo
D5 - Monkey

Can you post this in the thread if I die? I really do think Kalor needs to be flipped. A lot of that could be wrong and probably is but I'm trying to think through it all and that makes the most sense in my brain. I just don't think LP moved and that makes the whole Kalor claim (foxdie, watching him) fall apart.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I'll have time in a bit to dig in to reads.

Had a quick skim of your thoughts on Vere and Kalor and it makes sense
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Oh Zem do we get chucked out when actions lock or can we discuss until the start of day?
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Looking at votes again, Vere is early on LP. Could be a bus but I think more likely he just isn't a patriot. Vere and Kalor unlikely to be on the same team because of the sleepwalker stuff, feels like the second scum team may have tried to set up Vere the previous night but then were successful with LP. They probably have a redirect so did Vere into Kalor to score some legitimacy incase he knew who he visited and they probably thought LP was still visiting people each night so did him as well but it falls apart as soon as you believe he didn't go anywhere. Kalor doesn't even need to be a self watcher, that could be a fake claim they're using to set people up.

i don't know if that fits. Because Verelios only claimed mason so if mafia can force people to visit they wouldn't know if verelios had a power or not. Maybe mafia already knew he was lying and wanted to trip him up.

Although Verelios already had the sleepwalker breadcrumbs ready but he is smart enough to do that.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
We get kicked out when actions lock.

The Vere stuff is messier, he might just be a town mason sleepwalker and that's what triggered the idea for LP?

They might have known he was on the other scum team (maybe some info + votes/posts reading) but didn't know what role exactly so just sent him to Kalor, but couldn't say he was bombed / infected because that's too risky so they were fishing a bit as well?

Most of my Vere stuff is based off the votes + no night 2 bomb plus just feeling a bit scummy.

That's also why Kalor has to go first, even if Vere ends up being a Patriot he's going to get voted out soon, the info we need is on the second scum team and we get a lot of vote info and post info if he does flip and I think the case is stronger for him anyway.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Can you try and pick the Kalor stuff apart? I might have missed something obvious or small, but to me it comes down to if LP moved or not and nothing points towards him doing that.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Can you try and pick the Kalor stuff apart? I might have missed something obvious or small, but to me it comes down to if LP moved or not and nothing points towards him doing that.

L_P was saying he didn't move and I don't think there is any reason to doubt that. What he was saying was correct about poisoning people at this stage, not worth the risk of getting caught.

So the other mafia team either knew L_Ps role and Kalor was able to make the whole thing up.

- or they targeted L_P and forced him to target Kalor and only then did they find out that he was the FOXDIE Infector. I suppose if Kalor is scum they are running the risk of Kalor dying doing that.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Just to think about Patriots win condition.

Either get a majority or infect/bomb everyone.

Blocking theories aside it seems like they have only been able to do one each day so they are still battling attrition. Better to wait until there are like 7 players left and start making their move then

Wait. HP got the bomb on night 1 and LP infected Jman night 1 so they probably could do bomb and infect at the same time.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Foxdie is each night, bombs probably the same.

Each night you can PM the gamerunner the command INFECT: (NAME) to infect a player with FOXDIE.

But you're still right that bombing/poisoning people with this many players left is not worth it and too risky. They need jman and/or Leo dead for a start then once the numbers are much lower you can start again.

They also probably realised that people going public with the bomb/foxdie stuff makes it easier to narrow down who the Patriots could be, so they just stopped after night two.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
They would probably have continued bombing people who strongly pushed on Chuggs but afte Jman go revived there was probably no point
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Any final thoughts Zem in case you die?

You have all my actions in the unlikely event i am killed here.
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Yep. They probably got frustrated that the other team wouldn't kill Jman either because why would they?

Was the Zeke stuff about telling us not to revive Jman before or after it was done?
 

Zem

This is how we solve the game. Good old Google.
Any final thoughts Zem in case you die?

You have all my actions in the unlikely event i am killed here.

Hmm not really. I think Kalor needs to flip unless something happens tonight that changes that and it comes out in the thread which would not surprise me with this game haha
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Yep. They probably got frustrated that the other team wouldn't kill Jman either because why would they?

Was the Zeke stuff about telling us not to revive Jman before or after it was done?

I don't think there was actually that much time between Ynnek revealing and reviving Jman.

Zeke was against it after it was done.
 
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