Spectator Thread Waddle Dee Cinema
- Thread starter Fireblend
- Start date
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
First
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
The Travolta Lego gif is tremendous.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Scum ruined the best narrative in this game :(
Donnie
Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Let's see it!
Nomad Sparkster
This is some wild shit maynard
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I did. And I'd do it again too!
Nomad Sparkster
This is some wild shit maynard
WHAT
Nomad Sparkster
This is some wild shit maynard
Nomad Sparkster
This is some wild shit maynard
You read me as scum DAMN
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
Did someone say godfather?
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I am glad that Monkey seems to be having a good time in there, I knew she was Town pretty much right away, too obvious.
Town Core is Monkey, HP, Hawthorn, Eddy
Next tier down is Hedin and FEPs
That makes my current PoE: EC, Leo, Stan, Malus
2 Scum left. That means at least 2 in my PoE are wrong. If 3 are wrong, it's one of Hedin or FEPs. All 4 wrong, it's the nightmare "Hedin and FEPs together" scenario, which doesn't make too much sense based on their interactions with/around each other, so that one is least likely.
My gut is telling me it's Stan and Malus. EC/Leo are likely innocent. If Vincent was Scum, then I am damning everyone who voted for Nin lol.
Town Core is Monkey, HP, Hawthorn, Eddy
Next tier down is Hedin and FEPs
That makes my current PoE: EC, Leo, Stan, Malus
2 Scum left. That means at least 2 in my PoE are wrong. If 3 are wrong, it's one of Hedin or FEPs. All 4 wrong, it's the nightmare "Hedin and FEPs together" scenario, which doesn't make too much sense based on their interactions with/around each other, so that one is least likely.
My gut is telling me it's Stan and Malus. EC/Leo are likely innocent. If Vincent was Scum, then I am damning everyone who voted for Nin lol.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
I'm with leo on this. I get that it's frustrating to get scum read for meta reasons. I had a couple of games in a row where I had a real good day 1, and it felt like for a bit afterwards that if I didn't play up to that level and if I dared to be wrong on day 1 people assumed I was scum and that sucked, but it's part of the game and it is what it is. It's not something you should focus solely on, and it's very important not to get lost in it and forget about the game in front of you, but I think throwing it out for no reason is making you blind to an aspect of the game.
And again, to Leo's point, you throw out meta you're having like the same arguments with LP about being a low poster and EC being EC like every game
And again, to Leo's point, you throw out meta you're having like the same arguments with LP about being a low poster and EC being EC like every game
Fireblend
ABLF
Sorry for the delay in providing spoilers, for now here's the game setup:
https://vote.fireblend.com/mafiagen/goty2022/ (Spoilers behind this link)
https://vote.fireblend.com/mafiagen/goty2022/ (Spoilers behind this link)
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
I want to be clear on this. Monkey's feelings are fair and valid and I hate that this game ended like this. She's my friend and I like playing mafia with her, and I hate what happened here.
That being said what Leo did wasn't even close to crossing a line and how he's being talked to here is to put it bluntly, kind of shitty
That being said what Leo did wasn't even close to crossing a line and how he's being talked to here is to put it bluntly, kind of shitty
I just want to real quick address EC's comment on mentors, even though Monkey kind of did already. Mentors are not allowed to play for the player and shouldn't provide the level of strategy that EC is suggesting. (And I've never seen a mentor try to.) Most mentors answer questions, clarify terms and jargon, stuff like that. And as Monkey said, if a mentor tried to do more and the mods/gamerunners caught it, they would not be mentors again.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
Just now checking back in. Sorry to sub out. I know it's a pain to deal with when gamerunning, and it can be a pain for the other players. Work got busier than expected. But Leo didn't immediately get piled on D2 so I'd say they're doing a better job than me!
Also, Fanto serial killer. What the hell. Did not see that coming.
Also, Fanto serial killer. What the hell. Did not see that coming.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
Fanto
Confirmed Town
No one ever expects the Neutral Fanto!
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
Strongly agree.
I wanted to add: I’m not dismissing Monkey’s frustration on the topic. I get it, looking at what someone said about you and being like “well that’s not even remotely true” is very frustrating when you’re legitimately doing your best at something. One of the flaws of mafia is that no post is ever going to reflect the amount of real feelings and effort that go into a game. Other players will read and interpret from what they’ve seen in a person, and that’s going to vary wildly from person to person. Having to go through games where people are suspicious of you after you get a few wins just because it’s you is exhausting. I’ve given up on trying to engage every thought anyone throws out about me as a result. I will always be doing my absolute best (whatever that looks like in that point in my life) while in a game, and I don’t like having my effort devalued, either. However, I think that’s just the reality and we have seen a pretty broad range of reactions to this sentiment over the last several months that I probably don’t need to go into detail on. I’m not sure how we can address that as a whole or if it’s even possible, but Monkey is totally in her right to take the actions she feels are appropriate for herself in this context. Sorry you have been put into this position again, Monkey.
That said, I also think Hawthorn (even if she may be wrong) was very respectful about it. I don’t think she needs to feel bad about what happened, I think this is just a bad situation where two people are being hurt over trying to play this game where a large part of it is picking what people are saying apart. Hawthorn is a great person and player, too, and I have no doubt she was being totally earnest in her observations and apology to Monkey. It hurts to see this happen the way it’s happening with all parties involved because I feel no one needs to feel responsible for what’s happened.
Completely agree about Hawthorn.
Just to clarify a bit more, I agree also that the sentiment behind Leo's reasoning is understandable, but I also understand Stans frustrations and I also don't think Leo worded things in the best way.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
I don’t even really agree that Leo should have worded it better. Leo’s post here were in the purest sense, someone trying to play the game. He read Monkey’s post from the position of not knowing if she was lying or not because this is a game of mafia, and decided on lying, and was made to feel like he did something wrong because of that. I very much understand the want to jump in and defend a friend when they’re hurting, but I don’t think Leo did anything wrong in this situation
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Oh and for @EddyZacianLand because I know you're kind of kicking yourself over what happened with the doctor role, but just take it as something to learn for the future. People goof up their roles all the time, even people who have been playing for a while, so it's not something you need to feel bad about.
I also messed up with who was grilling me, I just wasn't playing well at all and I think a clean slate will do me good, rather than finish the train wreck of the game.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Yeah but that happens though. I'm not going to sit here and tell you not to try to learn from mistakes that were made, but no one is going to go out there and have a perfect game, especially as their first game. Hope you play again.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
yeah that was a hell of a post. I would also be shocked if he didn't get NK'd here lol
I have learned that I am not ready and may never be ready to return to play. I’m not in the headspace to separate and compartmentalize in order to play. Lesson learned. Won’t do it again.
But while I understand that not everyone keeps up with each other, the implication that I would use my mental health struggles as a ploy in ANY capacity, EVER… that was so incredibly hurtful. I show up for this community every day. I work constantly to help keep things going. I’m open about things I’m going through. And I would never, ever use my mental health as a STRATEGY. And I don’t want to play in a community where we think that is something that happens.
I am taking a break from staff and the server. I will return to those roles in a couple of weeks. But I will never play again.
But while I understand that not everyone keeps up with each other, the implication that I would use my mental health struggles as a ploy in ANY capacity, EVER… that was so incredibly hurtful. I show up for this community every day. I work constantly to help keep things going. I’m open about things I’m going through. And I would never, ever use my mental health as a STRATEGY. And I don’t want to play in a community where we think that is something that happens.
I am taking a break from staff and the server. I will return to those roles in a couple of weeks. But I will never play again.
Wow, I wish I hadn’t read any of these posts.
No, I don’t think Hawthorn did anything wrong. I’m sorry if she felt I was harsh and I will address that with her later. I DO feel like I have to play every game twice- against the perception of myself and also the game itself and it is exhausting. I get to say that. I get to have feelings. We don’t dissolve as people when we sign up.
But Leo’s doubling down made me feel exactly that. Like I am not allowed to be a person and have feelings.
And that’s the game I don’t want to play. Ever. It’s bonkers to see my friends hashing out where the line is and when we are allowed to tell people that their feelings don’t make a difference.
That’s all. I’m done.
No, I don’t think Hawthorn did anything wrong. I’m sorry if she felt I was harsh and I will address that with her later. I DO feel like I have to play every game twice- against the perception of myself and also the game itself and it is exhausting. I get to say that. I get to have feelings. We don’t dissolve as people when we sign up.
But Leo’s doubling down made me feel exactly that. Like I am not allowed to be a person and have feelings.
And that’s the game I don’t want to play. Ever. It’s bonkers to see my friends hashing out where the line is and when we are allowed to tell people that their feelings don’t make a difference.
That’s all. I’m done.
We are playing a game but we are also all people. Playing a game doesn't mean you disregard the personal side either.
I personally think after the situation was explained Leo could have worded things better. I think he came across cold.
Yes its a game but its a game played by people.
Donnie
Mafia, pocketed, or dead N1
Not sure anyone needs my take on all this but at least how I see it, I think it's just an unfortunate collision of events. Monkey wanted to sign up and try a game again, it's ended up that she's not in the right place for it and she's identified that and dropped out of the game, that shouldn't be a big deal or a problem we can't all as a community understand or rally around. I hope she comes back to the server and plays game night with us again soon, I think she's brilliant.
Conversely, Hawthorn and Leo were both also just there to play the game and did so. I don't think it's really fair or appropriate to be calling people callous in game or cold in here for just wanting to stay focused on the game and have that be the manner they avoid some of the issues we've had in the past few games where things devolve further and get personal etc. We can ask for (and should expect tbh) a better minimum bar in how people speak/interact/respect each other but we can't tell people they have to give more than playing the game in a fair and appropriate manner, that verges on too much imo.
Conversely, Hawthorn and Leo were both also just there to play the game and did so. I don't think it's really fair or appropriate to be calling people callous in game or cold in here for just wanting to stay focused on the game and have that be the manner they avoid some of the issues we've had in the past few games where things devolve further and get personal etc. We can ask for (and should expect tbh) a better minimum bar in how people speak/interact/respect each other but we can't tell people they have to give more than playing the game in a fair and appropriate manner, that verges on too much imo.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
well, Donnie said some of what I wanted to say already lol
What I’ll say as a final thought from me is that I think the view on what’s going on in a game changes very drastically from person to person - if you’re the player who wrote a post, another player reading the post, or a spectator, your perspective on what’s happening is going to be very different depending on the context. I think in a mafia game, certain viewpoints offer more insight on a situation than others. That’s not even factoring in things outside the game like IRL stuff affecting a person’s mentality or language barriers.
So what I’m trying to say in not so many words is, Leo not having context and being a town player not knowing if someone is just bluffing, he handled things respectfully to try to continue the game. Additionally, I’ve never had anything other than positive interactions with Leo inside and outside games, and you can tell he legitimately feels bad if he did not return to the game after his last post. He’s a good person. I have no interest in skewering him.
What I’ll say as a final thought from me is that I think the view on what’s going on in a game changes very drastically from person to person - if you’re the player who wrote a post, another player reading the post, or a spectator, your perspective on what’s happening is going to be very different depending on the context. I think in a mafia game, certain viewpoints offer more insight on a situation than others. That’s not even factoring in things outside the game like IRL stuff affecting a person’s mentality or language barriers.
So what I’m trying to say in not so many words is, Leo not having context and being a town player not knowing if someone is just bluffing, he handled things respectfully to try to continue the game. Additionally, I’ve never had anything other than positive interactions with Leo inside and outside games, and you can tell he legitimately feels bad if he did not return to the game after his last post. He’s a good person. I have no interest in skewering him.
Hello fellow townies
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
killing Random right when he came in? must've nailed the entire scum team or something lol
Hawthorn
I'll explain my reasons later
Hey all, I decided to get a little distance from the game after replacing out, but reading back I really appreciate the discussion that's been had in here. I continue to feel really bad that my comments hurt Dr. Monkey, who I look up to so much. I also really agree with and appreciate what Launch, Donnie, and Chuggernaut said. Mafia can be a terrible game to play because it does stir up so many emotions. That's why none of my RL friends will play social deduction games with me -- they tell me, "I'm glad you can play with your internet friends, because that's too intense for me, I don't want to spend what's supposed to be a fun evening deceiving/being suspicious of people I like." And I totally get it. This toughness is not something that I think goes away if you've been playing for a long time or are a very good player-- it's just inherently part of a game that is about suspicion and accusations. Meta reads especially, while pretty much an unavoidable part of the game, can be painful to read about yourself, especially if they feel tossed off or lazy or reductive, like mine pretty much was.
I think it's the most important thing to treat each other with kindness and respect, as friends and real people. However, I also think that insulting somebody, or swearing at them , or generally being a jerk or an asshole to someone, is in a completely different category from suspecting someone within the confines of the game, even wrongly. I don't think that Leo did anything wrong and -- speaking not just about this game -- I don't think anyone should be made to feel responsible for managing others' reactions to respectful gameplay, even though those reactions are 100% understandable and something I think we can all identify with. Having boundaries is not the same thing as being cold or unfeeling. I agree with Donnie that Leo was focused on playing the game and that is ok. While I regret my own comments, I felt like I had to say this.
I think it's the most important thing to treat each other with kindness and respect, as friends and real people. However, I also think that insulting somebody, or swearing at them , or generally being a jerk or an asshole to someone, is in a completely different category from suspecting someone within the confines of the game, even wrongly. I don't think that Leo did anything wrong and -- speaking not just about this game -- I don't think anyone should be made to feel responsible for managing others' reactions to respectful gameplay, even though those reactions are 100% understandable and something I think we can all identify with. Having boundaries is not the same thing as being cold or unfeeling. I agree with Donnie that Leo was focused on playing the game and that is ok. While I regret my own comments, I felt like I had to say this.
Hedin's got some interesting posts in this game thus far 
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Could it be EC and Stan? I guess that's where I'm at now.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
Is it open spoilers yet?
flatearthpandas
Round Moon Bears
I can't remember if I've ever been on a winning town team
flatearthpandas
Round Moon Bears
Probably because of poor shows like I had. I tell myself find town but still get tripped up on stupid crap. I should've asked eddy directly if his pm said nk or not from the very beginning and avoided the whole mess
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
Reading game thread makes me sick to my stomach
my joy decreases with every post
my joy decreases with every post
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
The idea of forcing scum to narrow things down is good, but when you’re in a situation like this it’s just going to end with scum popping HP or Neeks and you’re just passing on the problem to the next day except down a townie.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I think this is where I'm at now. Part of me says Scum Hedin would just go ahead and bus Stan here, so I have some tingles of doubt, but the best outcome for Scum would obviously be for the actual Town Vig to get voted out first, so if he is going to try pushing that way here, I can't blame him.
malus
#1 official chartmaker
One thing I just realized is that @EddyZacianLand actually managed to save a Townie with his one doc shot (even if it just delayed it by a day phase). That's what I call perfect use of a power.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
>reads stans posts
malus
#1 official chartmaker
Why is nobody asking where Stan's shot went? He clearly said he didn't get a refund and somebody even quoted the part of the rules that states that roleblocked vigs get refunded. So he must have been blocked by the doctor, but there's a 0% chance Scum shoots EC so why would feps protect him?
malus
#1 official chartmaker
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Some solid bus work there. Even if town voted correctly today they had distanced themselves so well that I’m pretty sure town just offs EC tomorrow
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Scum just won
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
town turbo stan for reasons
malus
#1 official chartmaker
The Wizard
Confidently Incorrect
Hello spec!
I was scum reading Hedin and to a lesser extent Monkey before replacing in very lightly so that was a hell of a PM. I was also gonna fake claim if I got vanilla town to mess up the generator math for scum.
I was really second guessing if just letting unchecked assumptions walk us into an EC vote was better for the game at the end. My motivation last day was to try to earn a scum win rather than see a town loss.
Even though Hedin and I had bussed enough that I could have taken the hit, Stan might have still had his shot that last night which could have been a loss without the ability to block and kill.
I was scum reading Hedin and to a lesser extent Monkey before replacing in very lightly so that was a hell of a PM. I was also gonna fake claim if I got vanilla town to mess up the generator math for scum.
I was really second guessing if just letting unchecked assumptions walk us into an EC vote was better for the game at the end. My motivation last day was to try to earn a scum win rather than see a town loss.
Even though Hedin and I had bussed enough that I could have taken the hit, Stan might have still had his shot that last night which could have been a loss without the ability to block and kill.
The Wizard
Confidently Incorrect
I know, what is this one page nonsense I expected full spoilers popping off against my claim and the With a Twist / Ducktales quotes!
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Fanto
Confirmed Town
In hindsight, this was a rather insightful post from me, just not in the way that I was thinking at the time.
I was looking at Stan as lock Scum, and trying to find the partner. If Hedin was his partner, then my gut told me he would have been bussing him there. The problem, of course, is that I had it backwards, Hedin was Scum, not Stan.
So, what I should have realized upon making that observation wasn't that Stan's partners were therefore defending him, it was that Stan had no partners bussing him, because he was Town. I needed to find the real bus target, which now looking back, was Hedin thinking that Wiz was Scum.
That seemed odd to me, I couldn't really make sense of why Hedin wasn't aligned with everyone else's thinking there. But now it makes perfect sense.
This is the difference between being Town and being Scum. As Scum, Hedin already had the cheat sheet, he knew Stan was Town, and he knew who his partner was. To those of us who did not have the cheat sheet though, we had no clue, and the obvious answer was looking like Stan's claim was fake and he therefore was Scum, and that Hedin was probably covering for him. In reality, Hedin was out there bussing his partner, just as my gut told me he would be doing at this stage of the game.
I'm not sure if there's a way to easily sum up my takeaway from all of this, but it's definitely another reason to always keep an open mind and be ready to find a new theory if you have even a "tingle of doubt" about your current one.
I felt like I was riding a very fine line that phase. I did not go into the day planning on bussing at all if a no vote didn't happen, bussing is a tool in the scum toolchest but since most people expect it I wanted to swerve a little if I could.
After the claims though I kind of felt like I had to go that direction. The immediate reaction from town was to believe Wizard. I thought if I moved there with any amount of certainty it was going to draw eyeballs, especially after having to explain away my switching of Wizard & Stan in my PoE the previous day which I could tell Sneeks didn't quite buy. I sent this to Febe after the claim:
So aware of how she felt about me I thought if I threw some weak support at Stan she would think that I was trying to protect my teammate knowing that I was likely going to be next if he was eliminated, or at least at a minimum try to figure out wtf I was doing. So I had to try to be a little scummy but not scummy enough to where they just decided to vote me instead.
Stantastic
Our Badminton Stanpion
Well im glad fukin someone appreciated it all lmao.>reads stans posts
Oh huh, what did happen here then? Because i just assumed it was a very oddly chosen protection.
This last bit was maybe the most brilliant part of the whole plan. You backing me up when your victory was so close landed perfectly in my blindspot of the day.
Thinking back i realise i aught to have clued in with how almost all your siding with me was really just in putting distance between you and Wizard, but hey i had other concerns at the time.
The Wizard
Confidently Incorrect
Hedin really did improvise an incredible tightrope act that final day phase. My position was a lot easier, burn down a pile of town cred to defend myself against a towny and hope I come out with slightly more at the end.
For Hedin it was like a Schrödinger's scum situation where he existed as both town and scum at the same time, whatever lens you applied to the game his actions were conceivable on either side of a partnership, while concealing the real pair perfectly.
Looking forward to seeing what you pull off in the championships Hedin!
For Hedin it was like a Schrödinger's scum situation where he existed as both town and scum at the same time, whatever lens you applied to the game his actions were conceivable on either side of a partnership, while concealing the real pair perfectly.
Looking forward to seeing what you pull off in the championships Hedin!
nin1000
Chilean German Madman
Would always come back to claim vanilla town at the start of the game.
Fuck the haters :D
Thanks for the game fire. Even though I checked out and did not even follow up the game since i did not really have a good time playing i always appreciate the game runner creating the game as well as putting in their hard work and time to create a playing field for us. Thank you for that.
To everyone who played.
You're on the list !
Fuck the haters :D
Thanks for the game fire. Even though I checked out and did not even follow up the game since i did not really have a good time playing i always appreciate the game runner creating the game as well as putting in their hard work and time to create a playing field for us. Thank you for that.
To everyone who played.
You're on the list !
