Gossip Thread Special Meet and Greet
- Thread starter Verelios
- Start date
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Oh sup Kyan
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Not an ideal day end and most of the wagons being people I town read one way or the other except nin isn’t amazing, but we have stuff to look at now at least.
I’ve heard about the fabled scum gossip before but I’ve never actually seen one so I’m going to choose to assume you’re town rather than spend this whole chat walking on eggshells.
anyway, I have a bit more work to do but I’ll be here in about 2 hours to look over some votes. Anything you want to ask in addition to that.
I’ve heard about the fabled scum gossip before but I’ve never actually seen one so I’m going to choose to assume you’re town rather than spend this whole chat walking on eggshells.
anyway, I have a bit more work to do but I’ll be here in about 2 hours to look over some votes. Anything you want to ask in addition to that.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Sup not much. Was happy that I got 10 posts done half a minute before day end. I then realized that the "who replied" counts the pm confirmation post I made and proceeded to inform the law of my crimes.
I got an angry >:( back at me, scary.
I am pure gossip, you have no protection and you are not blocked. I wish I had a gun but if that was the case, you would not be here. Didn't talk to anyone on N1 because of Zook. You alluded to marygaryness mattering at least somewhat; if it does and if you can convince me that you are not a dangerous name vigilante or that you are not allied with one, you can have my name. Claim, no claim, all you. Anything is a reaction and that can be read.
Never played gossip before and I mostly get invited to these chats as anti-town. Whole new experience this. Picked you because 1) you can talk a lot, 2) you seem like townie. Hopefully 1 strengthens 2.
I got an angry >:( back at me, scary.
I am pure gossip, you have no protection and you are not blocked. I wish I had a gun but if that was the case, you would not be here. Didn't talk to anyone on N1 because of Zook. You alluded to marygaryness mattering at least somewhat; if it does and if you can convince me that you are not a dangerous name vigilante or that you are not allied with one, you can have my name. Claim, no claim, all you. Anything is a reaction and that can be read.
Never played gossip before and I mostly get invited to these chats as anti-town. Whole new experience this. Picked you because 1) you can talk a lot, 2) you seem like townie. Hopefully 1 strengthens 2.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
I'll leave most of the d-end and "where to go from here" -talk until tomorrow, it be almost midnight here and I spent the evening thinking about mafia and even playing some of it. The Sorian conclusion is I guess the one thing that I have outright as a question: how serious was the original case? You know, for a D1 case, half serious or full bullshit for reactions and content?
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
This is something I’ll probably get yelled at post game for claiming, but I suck with these roles and scum will probably role cop me anyway. I’m Claire Fraser a Gary Stu doctor. I’m a Mary Sue and unlimited shot but I can only target Gary Stu’s. I assume I have a counter part somewhere. You don’t need to claim if you don’t want to. I don’t think you’re in danger of a night kill right now.
As far as the Sorian case goes it was serious, but it was also made with the intention of getting people to talk and I wanted to push the thread along a bit. Was kind of disappointed I didn’t get much of a reaction to nit from the rest of the players, but I liked what I got out of Sorian with it. The post I said I didn’t hate I actually really liked. Think it gave me a good idea where his head was at when he came in scum reading me and Random, and I could see the townie mindset behind his push and his reaction to my push on him.
As far as the Sorian case goes it was serious, but it was also made with the intention of getting people to talk and I wanted to push the thread along a bit. Was kind of disappointed I didn’t get much of a reaction to nit from the rest of the players, but I liked what I got out of Sorian with it. The post I said I didn’t hate I actually really liked. Think it gave me a good idea where his head was at when he came in scum reading me and Random, and I could see the townie mindset behind his push and his reaction to my push on him.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Okay so people on Geno aside from me are VA, Random, Kopite, Bojack, Zook, LP, and Zipped. Wiz, Nat, and Thorny were all there at one point, but hopped off.
VA's vote is placing a vote for Geno just to have a vote down. It's not an amazing vote, but honestly I think all of VA's post catching up with the thread and reacting to stuff have felt pretty townie. He's pretty good at having his townie vibe come across as scum too, so he's someone to keep an eye on, but I'm not worried too much about this slot.
Random seemed to be on the same page as me and Nat in regards to what Geno was posting. I feel like his presence was missed at EoD, but he said he was going to miss it. I think he's come across as mostly townie in the game, and I don't think the vote really changes that for me. I think I'm always going to be a bit paranoid about Random because he's real good at blending as scum, but I don't feel like going down that road.
Kopite's isn't amazing either but honestly, I think this is the best I've felt about Kopite in a game this early on. Like the questions he's been asking, and I like that he's engaging with people. Not a strong town read there for me, but he's not one I'm worried about.
Bojack, Zook, LP, and Zipped are the late voters.
Zook I'm not going to bother with and LP and Zipped seem to be trying to avoid the tie. I think scum LP and Zipped could have found a place to park that didn't tie them to a town flip so I'm not really stressing about those slots too much right now. Bojack is kind of interesting in that his vote pushes Geno back into the lead, but I think he's felt decently townie. Probably worth looking at if Melon or nin flips scum though.
Wiz hops on because he says Geno doesn't seem like he cared that Fate died and this was real early game. Seemed to be convinced by the Geno case later in the day. Hops off near the end stating that it feels town vs. town and then votes melon just to cause a tie which is kind of weak. Doesn't like that, moves back onto Geno saying he could go you but doesn't care, and then makes a post about how he's not going to give town points to Geno for self preserving and votes you. I don't know, I feel like Wiz has come across as pretty townie but this vote movement kind of doesn't look great. Him ending up off wagon with basically no push on you at all just seems convenient although I think me thinking your town now is doing some legwork here. I might try to do an ISO here later.
Nat votes for Geno because he feels like he hasn't been doing much, but later switches to nin. Throws some shade Wiz's way, but there's not really an attempt to get nin going here. Don't really love this much either.
Throny goes Geno, second guesses herself and votes Melon instead. Honestly don't hate this too much. I think Bojack's point about her for being town was pretty spot on. When I was talking to her about the Mary/Gary thing the thought that kept going through my head was that scum wouldn't be this convinced that the mary/gary stuff meant nothing.
Conclusion: I'm not convinced on this and I want to do a deeper dive into both of them but if I had to guess I think Nat and Wiz are the scum here and Nat's softball push on Wiz this whole phase has been a bus. Might try to push Wiz tomorrow while keeping the connection close to my chest to see what happens. Would recommend keeping a look out on if Nat keeps pushing Wiz with no real teeth behind the push.
--
Melon voters are Sorian, nin, you, and Thorny with Wiz hopping off later. Already talked about Thorny and Wiz and I'm pretty sure you're town so that's not important so we'll look at the other two.
Sorian seems pretty unsure but throws a vote down here anyway. Honestly it's not a bad vote. Feels honest which are the good vibes.
nin locks it in early on Melon because he thought how she was acting earlier was suss. Don't love that he played like this, but it's a pretty nin thing to do so that's NAI. Him not going Geno here is worth noting and I think it makes the early vote look better because he did it on a wagon he wasn't sure was going to take off.
The people on this at the end of the day might be pure. Not really seeing an obvious scum.
--
nin voters are Malus, Nat, and Fran with LP and Melon hopping off there at some point.
Nat has an earlier vote on nin that I also don't think is all the impressive before ending back up there later.
Malus throws a vote down on nin without much reasoning but he talked about wanting to get there earlier. He lightly defends Geno a bit, but isn't around for EoD so we don't get too much out of him. I could honestly see it going either way of Malus, but nothing is really jumping out as bad for me here.
Fran's vote is good. Feels like he believes it and he sticks to it, and it's pretty consistent with what he's been pushing throughout the day. It's also just a very fran place to end up.
People have been throwing shade LP's way all day phase and I think they're just wrong. I think his votes good here and he goes in a bit why he thinks the Geno vote won't end up great. I've noticed LP seems a lot more tuned into when a town kill isn't going to go our way in recent games and I honestly probably should have listened to him here. He tries to get a Thorny push going when people suggest looking there which tracks for how he seemed to think this was panning out.
Melon ends up voting for nin, but I think the interesting thing is she really REALLY isn't super interested in Geno and doesn't seem to want to vote there even when she's in danger. Ends up going Thorny later instead of Geno even when she's in the danger zone. I already didn't really think she's scum and I think this has her come out looking better.
Again, this kind of points me toward Nat.
--
Going to just talk about the 4 people I haven't yet here because this is a lot.
Jman is voting for you with Wiz, Wee is off wagon on VA, Darkside and Muffin aren't voting.
Jman is being Jman. Don't know if that's worth getting into.
Wee votes VA. Honestly don't hate this either. Think a lot of people didn't care for that PIK, and I do get why because I didn't really either. Doesn't really take off, but it's around the time people were looking for alt wagons, and I don't think she cared for the current ones so I'll give this a pass for now even though this feels like something I would normally side eye pretty hard.
Darkside has a vote for Wee than an unvote later. If he's town this will be his first time playing town so I want to keep that in mind because the vote for Wee isn't great. Mostly is scum reading her on some knee jerk things she said early day 1. It's one of the few things Nat brings up when he's catching up to thread later in response Darkside unvotes, says he doesn't like the Geno vote, and then he doesn't vote again for the rest of the day. Again, this kind of looks like some softball busing here from Nat.
Muffin doesn't vote but is around and posting near EoD. It's not a great look but honestly not something I'm worried about at the moment. He does feel kind voidish still but I feel more comfortable with these other connections.
So yeah, I think coming out of this Nat, Darkside, and Wiz come out looking the most not great, but I want to look more into them a bit more.
VA's vote is placing a vote for Geno just to have a vote down. It's not an amazing vote, but honestly I think all of VA's post catching up with the thread and reacting to stuff have felt pretty townie. He's pretty good at having his townie vibe come across as scum too, so he's someone to keep an eye on, but I'm not worried too much about this slot.
Random seemed to be on the same page as me and Nat in regards to what Geno was posting. I feel like his presence was missed at EoD, but he said he was going to miss it. I think he's come across as mostly townie in the game, and I don't think the vote really changes that for me. I think I'm always going to be a bit paranoid about Random because he's real good at blending as scum, but I don't feel like going down that road.
Kopite's isn't amazing either but honestly, I think this is the best I've felt about Kopite in a game this early on. Like the questions he's been asking, and I like that he's engaging with people. Not a strong town read there for me, but he's not one I'm worried about.
Bojack, Zook, LP, and Zipped are the late voters.
Zook I'm not going to bother with and LP and Zipped seem to be trying to avoid the tie. I think scum LP and Zipped could have found a place to park that didn't tie them to a town flip so I'm not really stressing about those slots too much right now. Bojack is kind of interesting in that his vote pushes Geno back into the lead, but I think he's felt decently townie. Probably worth looking at if Melon or nin flips scum though.
Wiz hops on because he says Geno doesn't seem like he cared that Fate died and this was real early game. Seemed to be convinced by the Geno case later in the day. Hops off near the end stating that it feels town vs. town and then votes melon just to cause a tie which is kind of weak. Doesn't like that, moves back onto Geno saying he could go you but doesn't care, and then makes a post about how he's not going to give town points to Geno for self preserving and votes you. I don't know, I feel like Wiz has come across as pretty townie but this vote movement kind of doesn't look great. Him ending up off wagon with basically no push on you at all just seems convenient although I think me thinking your town now is doing some legwork here. I might try to do an ISO here later.
Nat votes for Geno because he feels like he hasn't been doing much, but later switches to nin. Throws some shade Wiz's way, but there's not really an attempt to get nin going here. Don't really love this much either.
Throny goes Geno, second guesses herself and votes Melon instead. Honestly don't hate this too much. I think Bojack's point about her for being town was pretty spot on. When I was talking to her about the Mary/Gary thing the thought that kept going through my head was that scum wouldn't be this convinced that the mary/gary stuff meant nothing.
Conclusion: I'm not convinced on this and I want to do a deeper dive into both of them but if I had to guess I think Nat and Wiz are the scum here and Nat's softball push on Wiz this whole phase has been a bus. Might try to push Wiz tomorrow while keeping the connection close to my chest to see what happens. Would recommend keeping a look out on if Nat keeps pushing Wiz with no real teeth behind the push.
--
Melon voters are Sorian, nin, you, and Thorny with Wiz hopping off later. Already talked about Thorny and Wiz and I'm pretty sure you're town so that's not important so we'll look at the other two.
Sorian seems pretty unsure but throws a vote down here anyway. Honestly it's not a bad vote. Feels honest which are the good vibes.
nin locks it in early on Melon because he thought how she was acting earlier was suss. Don't love that he played like this, but it's a pretty nin thing to do so that's NAI. Him not going Geno here is worth noting and I think it makes the early vote look better because he did it on a wagon he wasn't sure was going to take off.
The people on this at the end of the day might be pure. Not really seeing an obvious scum.
--
nin voters are Malus, Nat, and Fran with LP and Melon hopping off there at some point.
Nat has an earlier vote on nin that I also don't think is all the impressive before ending back up there later.
Malus throws a vote down on nin without much reasoning but he talked about wanting to get there earlier. He lightly defends Geno a bit, but isn't around for EoD so we don't get too much out of him. I could honestly see it going either way of Malus, but nothing is really jumping out as bad for me here.
Fran's vote is good. Feels like he believes it and he sticks to it, and it's pretty consistent with what he's been pushing throughout the day. It's also just a very fran place to end up.
People have been throwing shade LP's way all day phase and I think they're just wrong. I think his votes good here and he goes in a bit why he thinks the Geno vote won't end up great. I've noticed LP seems a lot more tuned into when a town kill isn't going to go our way in recent games and I honestly probably should have listened to him here. He tries to get a Thorny push going when people suggest looking there which tracks for how he seemed to think this was panning out.
Melon ends up voting for nin, but I think the interesting thing is she really REALLY isn't super interested in Geno and doesn't seem to want to vote there even when she's in danger. Ends up going Thorny later instead of Geno even when she's in the danger zone. I already didn't really think she's scum and I think this has her come out looking better.
Again, this kind of points me toward Nat.
--
Going to just talk about the 4 people I haven't yet here because this is a lot.
Jman is voting for you with Wiz, Wee is off wagon on VA, Darkside and Muffin aren't voting.
Jman is being Jman. Don't know if that's worth getting into.
Wee votes VA. Honestly don't hate this either. Think a lot of people didn't care for that PIK, and I do get why because I didn't really either. Doesn't really take off, but it's around the time people were looking for alt wagons, and I don't think she cared for the current ones so I'll give this a pass for now even though this feels like something I would normally side eye pretty hard.
Darkside has a vote for Wee than an unvote later. If he's town this will be his first time playing town so I want to keep that in mind because the vote for Wee isn't great. Mostly is scum reading her on some knee jerk things she said early day 1. It's one of the few things Nat brings up when he's catching up to thread later in response Darkside unvotes, says he doesn't like the Geno vote, and then he doesn't vote again for the rest of the day. Again, this kind of looks like some softball busing here from Nat.
Muffin doesn't vote but is around and posting near EoD. It's not a great look but honestly not something I'm worried about at the moment. He does feel kind voidish still but I feel more comfortable with these other connections.
So yeah, I think coming out of this Nat, Darkside, and Wiz come out looking the most not great, but I want to look more into them a bit more.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
That was longer than I thought, sorry lol
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
I look at that post and I already like and hate picking you lol.
That claim makes sense in the context of your day start posts. I can buy it. Kim Possible has no use for your protection and like you say, only vigis who hate me get me killed tonight. The only thing I'll say that Zook is a obvious candidate for protection here. I doubt he is lying about his character so your power would work and chances are that scum will try to go there now that they seemingly abstained from the pick last night. I'd like the certainty of success with him, though the fact that Zook has done rather little with his cred would perhaps persuade me to look for alternative picks. Need to analyze the game state for that, might get about half of that one before I have to bail until close to day start.
That claim makes sense in the context of your day start posts. I can buy it. Kim Possible has no use for your protection and like you say, only vigis who hate me get me killed tonight. The only thing I'll say that Zook is a obvious candidate for protection here. I doubt he is lying about his character so your power would work and chances are that scum will try to go there now that they seemingly abstained from the pick last night. I'd like the certainty of success with him, though the fact that Zook has done rather little with his cred would perhaps persuade me to look for alternative picks. Need to analyze the game state for that, might get about half of that one before I have to bail until close to day start.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Re: VA. I got this idea in my head that he has a green on Sorian. His day start gave me some chill VA vibes, almost as if he was comfortable in his position, like perhaps he was holding a good role. He clearly emphasized his town read on Sorian. His response to me close to the day end seems to implicate that the spat between you and Sorian did not factor into his Sorian town read at all, as it seems that he was hardly aware of it. He even turns it around on me, effectively asking me to take a stance on Sorian for the record.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Trains go choo-choo. Pretty split board. 5 scum is ~21%. 4 is low, but both Fate and Donnie flipped as quite powerful roles, so it could be a thing if all scum have plenty of powers like Fate had. No point in vote stacking but really, do people even avoid that in our meta? I never care about that and I don't remember my teams being that bothered by it either.
VA was busy with work so the dropped vote is somewhat whatever in that context. No real weight behind it and admits as much. Wants to push the vote to Geno by defending nin and melon too to lesser extent. I.e. he narrows his own target pool in a situation where there is some limited attention on him. Not sure if he was aware of that, didn't seem much bothered by it. Gets a townie killed. I'd lean on him being a low-activity townie, want to see more from him to confirm.
I mentally paired you and Rando together since you both talk a lot and were leading discussion forward. I haven't played with him long enough to have a good #feel read on him so I'd need to ISO his stuff to make a grand call one way to other. I could say that he is a less confrontational and a more careful version of you, certainly being there, participating, but not really bothering anyone. If the content is actually good, I think his lifespan should be short.
...ok. Rando was concerned by nin popping off and disappearing. Likes wee. And Hawthorn, who names wee as K in her PIK. Kinda goes for the town hugbox first, attack low posters / low content second. Gets blocked - the games in this regard could solve something closer to the end, who was blocked and when. And I guess it'd be possible to lie about getting blocked to your advantage huh. Hmm, I'll likely make the old conclusion complaint here, he talks but I am not sure he goes very far with it. He gets why people want Geno, but does not add anything to it. The reasons why he prefers Geno over nin are not mentioned, even when he seems to be paying attention to nin so he should able to voice them (he was busy though, so quick posts are understandable). Don't see an outright reason to label him as town, if anything, my mental image was better than the reality.
I should have time for a little bit more before actions lock, bailing until then.
VA was busy with work so the dropped vote is somewhat whatever in that context. No real weight behind it and admits as much. Wants to push the vote to Geno by defending nin and melon too to lesser extent. I.e. he narrows his own target pool in a situation where there is some limited attention on him. Not sure if he was aware of that, didn't seem much bothered by it. Gets a townie killed. I'd lean on him being a low-activity townie, want to see more from him to confirm.
I mentally paired you and Rando together since you both talk a lot and were leading discussion forward. I haven't played with him long enough to have a good #feel read on him so I'd need to ISO his stuff to make a grand call one way to other. I could say that he is a less confrontational and a more careful version of you, certainly being there, participating, but not really bothering anyone. If the content is actually good, I think his lifespan should be short.
...ok. Rando was concerned by nin popping off and disappearing. Likes wee. And Hawthorn, who names wee as K in her PIK. Kinda goes for the town hugbox first, attack low posters / low content second. Gets blocked - the games in this regard could solve something closer to the end, who was blocked and when. And I guess it'd be possible to lie about getting blocked to your advantage huh. Hmm, I'll likely make the old conclusion complaint here, he talks but I am not sure he goes very far with it. He gets why people want Geno, but does not add anything to it. The reasons why he prefers Geno over nin are not mentioned, even when he seems to be paying attention to nin so he should able to voice them (he was busy though, so quick posts are understandable). Don't see an outright reason to label him as town, if anything, my mental image was better than the reality.
I should have time for a little bit more before actions lock, bailing until then.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Yeah that’s my big worry for Zook. He’s good but I don’t think he’s that confident in his reads and has kind of fallen into the confirmed town thing and him basically being vanilla means I don’t know if scum go for a kill there instead of going with another loud voice.
That’s a good catch on VA. I’ll keep that in mind there and see how he acts tomorrow.
as for Random, yeah as much as I want him to be town, I think he has to stay in the PoE for now. I don’t know if I want to go there tomorrow because I think you’re right in that scum will just off him if he’s town, but that is a slot we have to be looking at.
That’s a good catch on VA. I’ll keep that in mind there and see how he acts tomorrow.
as for Random, yeah as much as I want him to be town, I think he has to stay in the PoE for now. I don’t know if I want to go there tomorrow because I think you’re right in that scum will just off him if he’s town, but that is a slot we have to be looking at.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Kopite is pretty NAI. I don't think much of flavor spec most of the times and I've yet to see a reason to care here. Small signs of genuine engagement, follows through with his earlier thoughts on Geno, but it ain't like he had given himself any other avenues either. Can't be called town, can be town.
You make a good point about LP and Zipped willingly jumping on the town flip. I think it applies way more to LP than Zipped, since Zipped's vote wasn't necessary to secure the vote falling onto Geno. There is a hint of Zipped doing his duty for the sake of it: votes are expected out of everyone, better to have something down. LP was around telegraphing his moves and looking for alternatives, Zipped wasn't. Zipped, like Kopite, had one target he had laid some groundwork on - Geno - but his work was weaker IMO than that of Kop's.
LP himself could be in his town range. Not a fan of the Haw push, but it wasn't done to save red Geno. If nin was to flip red, it could be him jumping off the bus in a somewhat volatile situation. That bus would've had legs though, as LP's nin thing started around day start. I don't outright feel scum LP plays like that. A possible point against LP-nin scum team.
You make a good point about LP and Zipped willingly jumping on the town flip. I think it applies way more to LP than Zipped, since Zipped's vote wasn't necessary to secure the vote falling onto Geno. There is a hint of Zipped doing his duty for the sake of it: votes are expected out of everyone, better to have something down. LP was around telegraphing his moves and looking for alternatives, Zipped wasn't. Zipped, like Kopite, had one target he had laid some groundwork on - Geno - but his work was weaker IMO than that of Kop's.
LP himself could be in his town range. Not a fan of the Haw push, but it wasn't done to save red Geno. If nin was to flip red, it could be him jumping off the bus in a somewhat volatile situation. That bus would've had legs though, as LP's nin thing started around day start. I don't outright feel scum LP plays like that. A possible point against LP-nin scum team.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Yeah I think of these three Zipped comes out looking the worst, but in general I think that's just kind of how he plays and I'm trying to turn off the part of my brain that automatically scum reads engagement like Zippeds. Wouldn't go there today but he's different from Random in that he's not really much of a night kill target ever so we'll have to solve him sooner or later. Might try to pressure him a bit today but I don't know if we get anything.
Kopite is kind of a slow starter so having this level of engagement at this point is surprising to me, and I feel like that's usually a town tell for people. Someone to keep an eye on but I would bet he's town.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
It is pretty much how he often plays, be it town or scum. Curiously enough, I feel that neutral Zipped can be distinctively different from the other two. I think he should be poked, if he has time, he could be able to say a thing or two. Perhaps we can't get an outright town tell out of him, but perhaps the town Zipped #feel of old can be caught.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Alright yeah that works for me. I'm not great at reading Zipped but we'll see what we can get out of him. Hope you have time for your thoughts on some of the other players, but if not I'll probably ask you for some reads in the thread
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Assuming we don't have a very rude vig
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Yeah I think every gossip chat I've been in closes at actions lock
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Who even remains at this point?
Darkside, malus, Wiz, should refresh melon because of the overall too tame day end, should just for now commit to the idea that Sorian might be playing from position of no additional information because that's the feeling I got when reading your case against him, Muffin, Fran.
Vote steal of Muffin is not a town tell on its own. Thievery is such an obvious anti-town action that meanies don't always find a good use for the stolen vote. Often the first thought for many is to believe that scum steal votes from townies to balance the odds just a tad into their favor - a thought that further devalues vote steal as an action. Scum stealing a vote from scum is a simple subversion arising from these issues. Does not mean that this happened with Muffin, because this could as easily have been a subversion of a subversion where it all loops back to the beginning. Or a neutral JOAT with a pool of fun actions, my ever-lasting favorite. I remember him saying that he was discouraged by it and not much else. Need more than that to say anything conclusive.
Hopefully the sun rises with everyone alive.
Darkside, malus, Wiz, should refresh melon because of the overall too tame day end, should just for now commit to the idea that Sorian might be playing from position of no additional information because that's the feeling I got when reading your case against him, Muffin, Fran.
Vote steal of Muffin is not a town tell on its own. Thievery is such an obvious anti-town action that meanies don't always find a good use for the stolen vote. Often the first thought for many is to believe that scum steal votes from townies to balance the odds just a tad into their favor - a thought that further devalues vote steal as an action. Scum stealing a vote from scum is a simple subversion arising from these issues. Does not mean that this happened with Muffin, because this could as easily have been a subversion of a subversion where it all loops back to the beginning. Or a neutral JOAT with a pool of fun actions, my ever-lasting favorite. I remember him saying that he was discouraged by it and not much else. Need more than that to say anything conclusive.
Hopefully the sun rises with everyone alive.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Sick made it in on time. Hope to see you on the other side