RPG Mafia - Secret Chrono Fantasy Trail CIXVI

[Chuggernaut]

I'm not convinced Ty was ever going to be an easy target but that's debatable but the semi quiet poster who is posting just enough content to be scrutinized but not enough to actually sit around to defend themselves is like THE prototypical easy target for day 1 and Neon is definitely that at the moment.

As far as leading goes, you are sliding into that role, whether trying or not. That said, there are a lot of people loud now so it's less that I am saying you are trying to make yourself the main character and more saying that you could be playing scum on the active side of the roster instead of being a more passive scum. Which, I mean, I've been scum with you, you aren't passive in your scum play at all.

You're the best I've got currently and it's still 24 hours + until eod, this reaction seems overblown.

Neon is around and making cases for people and he defended himself plenty when asked. Like by that logic you’re saying anyone who isn’t loud is an easy target and like…yeah bro that’s going to be where scum is a lot of the time.

I’ll give you I’ve done that in that past and I get why you would be worried there.

but I don’t think this is overblown. It doesn’t help town to let myself get scum reads thrown at me and get pushed out while I do nothing so I’m going to defend myself the best I can and I’m going to keep pushing and trying to convince people on who I think is scum.

 

[Geno]

oh right you can share xp

This is a slip, it has to be, it makes sense for scum to have an extra rule to share XP to execute abilities, I mean why not?
Ty says he misread the rule that says exchange XP for an ability, there's no world where this is misread as "share XP between players"
Vote: Ty4on

 

[Sorian]

Oh ok, clearly what was upsetting me was just lack of Geno, that was the reaction I was waiting for anyone to have last night.

 

[Chuggernaut]

It's definitely someone trying to make a post based on memory instead of going back and verifying but the Turm read is the only thing that gets thrown out there. Throwing out your name and Fran's there was completely appropriate and in line with where his head would have been. Honest solving and good solving are two different things. I don't get to his conclusions but I believe a town player made them.




It was a flip flop, she said I was fine in the previous post then still framed the whole next post as a thesis of me being bad without committing to it. She's done this to me in most games we play together though which is why I ignored it. Fwiw, Saw is one of those people that can do day 1 pretty much the same as town or scum which is why I'm just kind of shrugging here for now. I feel like I can read her better a couple days in.

I don’t really think his case on us was any more substantial and it just kind of came across as people that were reacting to it which yes we were around and reacting at the time. Like me and Fran landed on opposite ends of the fence there. I just really struggle to see this as honest and it reads like hoping town is going to fill in the blanks here

I agree about Neeks. She’s not really someone I want to go after today

 

[Chuggernaut]

Never change Geno

 

[Sorian]

Neon is around and making cases for people and he defended himself plenty when asked. Like by that logic you’re saying anyone who isn’t loud is an easy target and like…yeah bro that’s going to be where scum is a lot of the time.

I’ll give you I’ve done that in that past and I get why you would be worried there.

but I don’t think this is overblown. It doesn’t help town to let myself get scum reads thrown at me and get pushed out while I do nothing so I’m going to defend myself the best I can and I’m going to keep pushing and trying to convince people on who I think is scum.

Neon has all of 13 posts in this thread (and probably some of those were before day start) and I count 6 that are actually about reads or defending himself. It's more than just being loud or not. The no posters or 1-2 post people right now are quiet but I wouldn't put them as an "easy target" day 1 because they have no content to latch on to. Those become easier targets as the game goes on because then you can say "it's day 4 and we still have no tangible content from X, let's kill them" but on day 1, that doesn't work. What does work is that sweet spot of someone who posts a little bit but not too much, which is where I place Neon now.

And I think this is overblown when you have mild heat from literally just me, there's nothing here actually pushing you out but I have gathered that you don't want to die.

 

[turmoil7]

Ha ha classic Geno - null

Saw does her [player]!scum/[player!town] analysis on D1 as both alignments, so I will have to wait some more time to get a better read on her - null

Honestly I can see Febe's reasoning against me, my read on him moves from slightly town to town

 

[Sorian]

Ha ha classic Geno - null

Saw does her [player]!scum/[player!town] analysis on D1 as both alignments, so I will have to wait some more time to get a better read on her - null

Honestly I can see Febe's reasoning against me, my read on him moves from slightly town to town

This is the sheepiest post ever.

 

[Geno]

Honestly the game focusing so much on Ty's slip makes me think scum is happy with this state of the game, leading me to think Ty is town

This was not even 24h in day 1, we can only focus on information we currently have, and a (potential) slip is pretty big, specifically what made you think scum is happy with the state of the game? Your vote is on Chugg who is defending Ty, if you thought scum was pushing Ty why are you still there and haven't unvoted?

 

[Chuggernaut]

Neon has all of 13 posts in this thread (and probably some of those were before day start) and I count 6 that are actually about reads or defending himself. It's more than just being loud or not. The no posters or 1-2 post people right now are quiet but I wouldn't put them as an "easy target" day 1 because they have no content to latch on to. Those become easier targets as the game goes on because then you can say "it's day 4 and we still have no tangible content from X, let's kill them" but on day 1, that doesn't work. What does work is that sweet spot of someone who posts a little bit but not too much, which is where I place Neon now.

And I think this is overblown when you have mild heat from literally just me, there's nothing here actually pushing you out but I have gathered that you don't want to die.

Yeah I don’t agree with this at all. That’s like your nulls and fluff posters. Neon isn’t posting much but there’s thoughts there and is defending himself. The content of those posts is what I’m scum reading. This is like arguing you shouldn’t push LP. Some players aren’t going to post much but the content there is still enough to get a read on them.

Of course I don’t want to die. No one should want to die. That doesn’t help town. Getting scum read is part of the game, but so is pushing back on it.

 

[Fireblend]

Well I like this post more. Since you’re feeling like there’s been more worth analyzing so far - what are your takeaways that aren’t related to the Ty exchange?

More than not related to the ty stuff it's what's stemmed off of it. In no universe can I see a ty+chuggs team given how awkwardly that worked out, for example, and I feel better about Ty than Chuggs but not enough to throw a lot of pressure there, just feeling a little off with his justifications, post volume and that I'm wary of being pocketed by an active scum.
I like Sorian, feels like they aren't trying to control the conversation but their posts seem meaningful and clearly looking to pressure Chuggs who I'm also side-eyeing so I'm ok with them.
Neon I don't like because of the coy post and then the weird explanation when called out on it but it genuinely feels more like sleepy town not being too dialed in right now rather than anything actually malicious.
I'm a bit wary of Sneeks, if you'd asked me before I checked the post counts I'd have said she posted like 3 times but she's really raking em up and I'm not sure what on.
Fran and HP are fine, kind of saying things that make sense to me.

And that's about it everyone else is posting fluff imo (looking at you nin, and cap) or just hasn't made enough of an impression on me.

 

[Sorian]

Yeah I don’t agree with this at all. That’s like your nulls and fluff posters. Neon isn’t posting much but there’s thoughts there and is defending himself. The content of those posts is what I’m scum reading. This is like arguing you shouldn’t push LP. Some players aren’t going to post much but the content there is still enough to get a read on them.

Of course I don’t want to die. No one should want to die. That doesn’t help town. Getting scum read is part of the game, but so is pushing back on it.

I was actually going to use LP as an example but then decided not to. I think LP is exactly the scenario I explained, an easy target day 3 onwards but not so much day 1.

And don't be dense, there's a difference between someone who doesn't want to die because town dying is bad and someone who doesn't want to die because they are important (scum, perceived good role, just really wants to play longer) and you are definitely in camp 2.

 

[Geno]

If we want to get deep into semantics Ty's post and explanation are talking about different things:





The first one is about sharing xp and the second one is about exchanging which are not the same to me. But maybe it's just me reading too much into semantics as a non native speaker.

I like this post, the word exchange means you give something you get something, share is not the same, you just give.

 

[Chuggernaut]

I was actually going to use LP as an example but then decided not to. I think LP is exactly the scenario I explained, an easy target day 3 onwards but not so much day 1.

And don't be dense, there's a difference between someone who doesn't want to die because town dying is bad and someone who doesn't want to die because they are important (scum, perceived good role, just really wants to play longer) and you are definitely in camp 2.

Yeah again. I don’t agree

I’m not being dense. I truly think everyone should be in camp 2. If you think a case on you isn’t good tell people why it isn’t good. Going to your grave early doesn’t help town unless you have some wacky post death role.

also I’m not sure what you’re complaining about? You wanted to pressure me and got pressure.

 

[turmoil7]

This was not even 24h in day 1, we can only focus on information we currently have, and a (potential) slip is pretty big, specifically what made you think scum is happy with the state of the game? Your vote is on Chugg who is defending Ty, if you thought scum was pushing Ty why are you still there and haven't unvoted?

the rules of the game are a bit confusing, I know myself I have read them several times to get them, getting them wrong is NAI to me. I am not saying Ty can't be scum, just that people piling on him for this seems weird to me.

I agree with you that a first glance my vote on Chuggs seems weird, but if you read carefully that stage of the game you may see that several were trying to make a thing of the ty-slip(a nothing burger imho), to me Chuggs was trying to make it happen too by keeping attention on it instead of letting it slide as the attention moved to the next thing the best offense is a good defense let's say.

 

[malus]

So far based on vibes I'd say the Sorian vs Chuggs seems TvT, so if you two could make up, that would be great.

Fran looking at mechanics is typical Fran behavior but slightly town lean for me(disclaimer I don't think I have ever played with scum Fran)

Sorian wanting to do his own thing even if it could damage the town is classic Sorian too - null (neutral?)

Chuggs following suit seemed a bit weird to me, smelled a bit as trying to overdo the town act to me - slight scum read

VOTE: Chuggs

I don't know, this feels a little forced to me. I get that you gotta start somewhere on D1, but this still feels like a list that has to check the Town/Null/Scum boxes.

I buy Ty's explanation regarding his exp slip

I can see how the mixup could happen regarding the xp sharing, but Ty then claiming he didn't know how xp is earned comes across as an additional justification for the slip. After already being called out for a mistake, wouldn't you then go and actually read the rules?
So this dismissal feels a little hasty to me.

At the moment I'm conflicted between Turm and Ty, but for now I'll go here:
vote: turmoil7

 

[Franconp]

I can't believe it myself but I'm leaning town for Sorian.

I feel dirty.

 

[Sorian]

I like this post, the word exchange means you give something you get something, share is not the same, you just give.

I mean, share would insinuate a communal set up where everyone just pools resources and uses what they need to whereas exchange would be a more 1:1 trade. They are definitely words with slightly different definitions, but I still stick to what I said earlier, it's close enough that I don't think its meaningful to try and find some gotcha in the use of one word over the other.

Yeah again. I don’t agree

I’m not being dense. I truly think everyone should be in camp 2. If you think a case on you isn’t good tell people why it isn’t good. Going to your grave early doesn’t help town unless you have some wacky post death role.

also I’m not sure what you’re complaining about? You wanted to pressure me and got pressure.

I'm not complaining but I don't feel like I got regular pressure, I feel like I got someone cracking under pressure now.

 

[Franconp]

as the attention moved to the next thing

What next thing?

 

[Geno]

moved to the next thing the best offense is a good defense let's say.

Which is?

 

[Franconp]

@Geno can you give me some reads besides Ty? How do you feel about anyone else?

 

[Sorian]

I can't believe it myself but I'm leaning town for Sorian.

I feel dirty.

Damn, I finally made it.

 

[turmoil7]

What next thing?

Exactly, there is no next thing because we are still focusing on the ty-slip

 

[Sorian]

My one qualm is idk what Turm is doing and I don't like that he's voting with me on Chuggs because yeah, there was no next thing. Everyone just sat stalled on Ty until I started making Chuggs bicker with me this morning.

 

[Chuggernaut]

I can't believe it myself but I'm leaning town for Sorian.

I feel dirty.

yeah I’ve actually come out of this feeling really good about Sorian which feels wrong but here we are

 

[Geno]

@Geno can you give me some reads besides Ty? How do you feel about anyone else?

Turm, lean scum, Sorian, Town, you Town, Chugg slight town, the town reads are mostly vibes.

 

[HPSauce]

The only other thing that could possibly be classed as a "next thing" is Chuggs and Sorian going at it but that's two players that could have an argument in an empty room right there I fear.

 

[Chuggernaut]

That Turms vote on me is exactly the kind of thing I expect from Turms based on memory. I don’t think it’s scum

 

[Sorian]

As much as I like being town read the three in quick succession is just going to make me assume one of you is trying to pocket me.

 

[Chuggernaut]

As much as I like being town read the three in quick succession is just going to make me assume one of you is trying to pocket me.

What the fuck I town read this?

 

[Fireblend]

As much as I like being town read the three in quick succession is just going to make me assume one of you is trying to pocket me.

Fwiw I'm less of a fan of your most recent posts lol I don't think chuggs reads as desperate as you're trying to make him look. Not enough for me to do a 180 on you but enough that I'm looking at the receipts and I just don't see it.

 

[Geno]

The only other thing that could possibly be classed as a "next thing" is Chuggs and Sorian going at it but that's two players that could have an argument in an empty room right there I fear.

Idk how Chugg is moving to the "next thing" if he's part of it

 

[Fireblend]

If anything I think you (Sorian) are giving Chuggs pretty good cover for him to make some reasonable sounding posts in quick succession lol

 

[HPSauce]

If anything I think you (Sorian) are giving Chuggs pretty good cover for him to make some reasonable sounding posts in quick succession lol

Fake Argument?

 

[Sorian]

I’m imaging a gif, I think from family guy, where someone is doing a really dumb trick on stage, like the pretending to disconnect your thumb or something and the crowd keeps cheering every time they do it. Pretend I posted that here, that’s how I feel

 

[malus]

That Turms vote on me is exactly the kind of thing I expect from Turms based on memory. I don’t think it’s scum

But is it based on Town!Turm or Scum!Turm memory?

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

This is the sheepiest post ever.

I completely agree with this. That post may be the fluffiest “reads” post I’ve seen in a while. I need to go back and read some of Turm’s posts. Leaning town on Sorian at the moment.

 

[Sorian]

Fwiw I'm less of a fan of your most recent posts lol I don't think chuggs reads as desperate as you're trying to make him look. Not enough for me to do a 180 on you but enough that I'm looking at the receipts and I just don't see it.

I have definitely seen Chuggs get a scum read and say “ok cool” and then move on with his day. I’m not saying he’s having a Phoenix wright breakdown over here but I went into this vote expecting to get ignored so I’m just more surprised that I’m getting this much back and forth

 

[TheWorthyEdge]

As much as I like being town read the three in quick succession is just going to make me assume one of you is trying to pocket me.

I did not read this prior to my last post. My game is ruined. I’m ruined. Sorian is scum.

I still think I town read Sorian regardless of optics.

 

[malus]

If anything I think you (Sorian) are giving Chuggs pretty good cover for him to make some reasonable sounding posts in quick succession lol

Couldn't he just make the reasonable sounding posts without Sorian?
Are you saying you Scum read both Sorian and Chuggs?

 

[Chuggernaut]

But is it based on Town!Turm or Scum!Turm memory?

town Turms. To be fair most of my memories of Turms are him doing some shit that looks like he’s sheeping or having a flimsy vote and then us flipping him day 1 and having him he town so yeah it’s just not a path I really want to go down today

 

[Fireblend]

Couldn't he just make the reasonable sounding posts without Sorian?
Are you saying you Scum read both Sorian and Chuggs?

No I'm saying Sorian could be hyperfixating on Chuggs and giving them an excuse to make reasonable sounding posts, regardless of the alignment of either, God knows I like being given a good excuse to post even as town. Just like this! Thanks!

 

[Fireblend]

This is the sheepiest post ever.

Ok wait how did I miss that last line in turm's post lmao

 

[HPSauce]

Idk how Chugg is moving to the "next thing" if he's part of it

Oh yeah I'm not backing Turms' read up or anything lol, just making the point that something has happened since the Ty stuff.

 

[Chuggernaut]

I have definitely seen Chuggs get a scum read and say “ok cool” and then move on with his day. I’m not saying he’s having a Phoenix wright breakdown over here but I went into this vote expecting to get ignored so I’m just more surprised that I’m getting this much back and forth

I’ll be honest if we had this game like a year ago that probably would have been my reaction and not to self meta but it would have been NAI. This is more of a recent mafia philosophy change for me

 

[malus]

town Turms. To be fair most of my memories of Turms are him doing some shit that looks like he’s sheeping or having a flimsy vote and then us flipping him day 1 and having him he town so yeah it’s just not a path I really want to go down today

Oh yeah, I forgot about that tradition.

 

[The Wizard]

From catching up the game still feels mushy and shapeless to me, I guess it's the chicken and egg problem of day one discussion and I sometimes struggle with generating momentum vs just reacting to things.
I like Chuggs, HP and Febe. I think the Ty moment is NAI but I want to see more from him outside of defense to get a better sense of where is at.

 

[Alexem]

I'm not sure that I vibe with the Chuggs or Turms votes - so far they both feel to me like they're trying to advance things, if from varying angles.

Blarg aside, I feel like I've got the least to tie to Cap and Muffin at the moment - I would have added Nat and Malus, but they've been chipping in recently. Also hoping to hear more from Geno as he catches up.

For now, I'm going to put down a vote for Ty:
VOTE: Ty4on
This would, admittedly be for an info flip - if it were an option I'd prefer it if he were investigated, but if the XP prices in the sample PM and my PM are anything to go by, I don't think anyone's going to be in a position to claim a checking shot until N2. I think flipping Ty could add some context to Neon and the comments on player partnerships. I don't think Neon would have suggested that if the two of them were scum mates.

 

[Franconp]

From catching up the game still feels mushy and shapeless to me, I guess it's the chicken and egg problem of day one discussion and I sometimes struggle with generating momentum vs just reacting to things.
I like Chuggs, HP and Febe. I think the Ty moment is NAI but I want to see more from him outside of defense to get a better sense of where is at.

Do you find someone scummy?

 

[The Wizard]

I'm looking at this world building from Neon:

Let's run with the hypotheticals for now.
if Ty can truly share xp then there must be a group mechanic. It could definitely be scum who can pool their XP. Alternatively it could be a neutral cult/neighbors/lovers situation.

If Ty is a scum/aggressive-neutral and slipped: Then their scum partners would most likely try and move the spotlight somewhere else and not try to get much attention on Ty. Since there is some talk of the topic (it's kinda the only topic right now), most of them would likely remain at the fringes of the conversation. In this possibility, I could see HP as not being a scum, and also I'd read TheWorthyEdge as slightly town for their insistence that it was a slip.

if Ty is town and slipped or was simply confused about the mechanics: Then it is more likely that scum would support the angle that Ty is indeed scum. In this situation, based purely upon gut feeling based on the interactions so far, I'd think that someone in the turm, Chuggs and Fran group would be a scum trying to fan the flames. But there has been too little interactions for me to get a good read on them.

I guess I'll leave this till tomorrow afternoon (since my morning is busy with work). Hopefully we'll have more to chew on by then.

So if Ty is scum it sets up some town reads for HP and TWE as unlikely partners.
If Ty is town, it sets up some scum reads on Turm, Chuggs and Fran.
I'm not sure that latter group makes sense to me, how was Chuggs trying to fan the flames on Ty? Why are the two you see as unpartnered in the scum case not top of mind as people who could be scum jumping on a "slip" from a town!Ty?

 

[Franconp]

Blarg aside, I feel like I've got the least to tie to Cap and Muffin at the moment - I would have added Nat and Malus, but they've been chipping in recently. Also hoping to hear more from Geno as he catches up.

Why not Zipped in that list? How do you feel about him?

 

[Alexem]

Why not Zipped in that list? How do you feel about him?

That's a good question - I thought I remembered him having more to say in the early day, but looking again it's mostly fluff. In that case, we need to hear more from Zipped as well.

 

[Natiko]

okay and what of it?

Well, it’s weird. I don’t know why you would lie about it - I don’t have a clear motive for what purpose it would serve you as scum, but it does seem to me that you had one thought about Ty’s “slip” and then claimed another in hindsight.

More than not related to the ty stuff it's what's stemmed off of it. In no universe can I see a ty+chuggs team given how awkwardly that worked out, for example, and I feel better about Ty than Chuggs but not enough to throw a lot of pressure there, just feeling a little off with his justifications, post volume and that I'm wary of being pocketed by an active scum.
I like Sorian, feels like they aren't trying to control the conversation but their posts seem meaningful and clearly looking to pressure Chuggs who I'm also side-eyeing so I'm ok with them.
Neon I don't like because of the coy post and then the weird explanation when called out on it but it genuinely feels more like sleepy town not being too dialed in right now rather than anything actually malicious.
I'm a bit wary of Sneeks, if you'd asked me before I checked the post counts I'd have said she posted like 3 times but she's really raking em up and I'm not sure what on.
Fran and HP are fine, kind of saying things that make sense to me.

And that's about it everyone else is posting fluff imo (looking at you nin, and cap) or just hasn't made enough of an impression on me.

Okay, I’ve liked your more recent posts so I’m content to pull my vote back.

Unvote

I'm not sure that I vibe with the Chuggs or Turms votes - so far they both feel to me like they're trying to advance things, if from varying angles.

Blarg aside, I feel like I've got the least to tie to Cap and Muffin at the moment - I would have added Nat and Malus, but they've been chipping in recently. Also hoping to hear more from Geno as he catches up.

For now, I'm going to put down a vote for Ty:
VOTE: Ty4on
This would, admittedly be for an info flip - if it were an option I'd prefer it if he were investigated, but if the XP prices in the sample PM and my PM are anything to go by, I don't think anyone's going to be in a position to claim a checking shot until N2. I think flipping Ty could add some context to Neon and the comments on player partnerships. I don't think Neon would have suggested that if the two of them were scum mates.

Meanwhile I just don’t like this post or the reasoning which seems set to absolve yourself of the flip result right out of the gate. My inclination is to vote you, but realistically I know we’re probably going to vote for someone more involved in this Ty stuff so I guess I’ll wait and go back and look over initial reactions to it and see what I think.

 

[The Wizard]

TWE's reaction was good so I guess that. Everyone wants to claim being rusty and not having played in a while but a minor slip like that a few years ago would have had people tunneling hard and here everyone is suddenly keeping a level head and wanting all the facts.

I think this is a roundabout way of me saying that I don't expect good play from this community now that I typed it all out lol

sorian I think youre just mad we all grew up and got smart

It's odd to me that Sorian seems frustrated here, like he wants more people to pull on the Ty thread but doesn't want to do it himself.
If the "good" play is to not tunnel hard on a perceived minor slip why praise Geno for coming in and doing just that?

 

[Ty4on]

It's odd to me that Sorian seems frustrated here, like he wants more people to pull on the Ty thread but doesn't want to do it himself.
If the "good" play is to not tunnel hard on a perceived minor slip why praise Geno for coming in and doing just that?

Oh good, I'm not alone in sussing Sorian.

I mostly dislike the way he treated Chuggs.

 

[The Wizard]

Do you find someone scummy?

Sorian and Neon are the most bad vibes for me right now.
Neon I could see maybe getting ahead of the the Ty flip in the way someone with scum team insight might.
Sorian I think I clash with as he has a very aggressive playstyle which puts me on edge but in this game it feels loud and hollow to me.

 

[The Wizard]

This would, admittedly be for an info flip - if it were an option I'd prefer it if he were investigated, but if the XP prices in the sample PM and my PM are anything to go by, I don't think anyone's going to be in a position to claim a checking shot until N2.

When people say info flip I assume they mean the info gained from flipping the player as town (if the flip is scum that's just good for town and is not just "info")
What info do you think we get from a town Ty here?
Why do you bring up the timing of an investigate night action - would finding clarity on day three be bad here?

 

[melonrabbit]

The Like a Dragon games are definitely jrpgs. I've never played the main Yakuza games to make a ruling there.

U the boss man.

I ain't gonna argue.

 

[melonrabbit]

are there any in this kind of game mechanic ? and if yes, how do you know this?
(not fishing for information but i want to know how you know)

Don't steal my quest :(

I'm still looking Wiz. I'll find it.

 

[HPSauce]

Melon if you had a gun right now who would you shoot

 

[melonrabbit]

Melon if you had a gun right now who would you shoot

Probably chuggs.

... But since I'm finding this Sorian v Chuggs match entertaining for the moment.

I'd go for you.

 

[HPSauce]

That's open to everyone actually if you had a gun with one bullet who would you smoke

 

[HPSauce]

Probably chuggs.

... But since I'm finding this Sorian v Chuggs match entertaining for the moment.

I'd go for you.

Damn shooting the only other Aerith fan I see how it is

 

[Ty4on]

That's open to everyone actually if you had a gun with one bullet who would you smoke

If I had to shoot right now I would shoot Sorian.

Caveat being I haven't read him closely yet.

I would avoid shooting Chuggs, TheWorthyEdge and maybe Neon and Wizard. Others are for the most part null.

 

[Alexem]

When people say info flip I assume they mean the info gained from flipping the player as town (if the flip is scum that's just good for town and is not just "info")
What info do you think we get from a town Ty here?
Why do you bring up the timing of an investigate night action - would finding clarity on day three be bad here?

Aside from keeping the point from getting dragged out longer than it needs to, I'm still thinking about Neon's thoughts about potential partnerships. I could be in a tunnel here one way or another, but that still felt like an odd suggestion to bring up.

As for the timing - I don't suppose waiting would do any harm, but if the situation can be kept kicking along, it could end up distracting us from other topics. Granted, I'm probably not helping much on that front at the moment, seeing as it's the main point that's stood out to me so far, but I'd still appreciate some clarity on the matter.

I'll freely admit that this is D1, so I'd rather look into a potential lead than go with a dartboard vote or join a train that I don't feel great about.

 

[Ty4on]

I like Sorian, feels like they aren't trying to control the conversation but their posts seem meaningful and clearly looking to pressure Chuggs who I'm also side-eyeing so I'm ok with them.

What posts make you feel that way about Sorian?

 

[Ty4on]

I would avoid shooting Chuggs, TheWorthyEdge and maybe Neon and Wizard. Others are for the most part null.

Adding turmoil to this group, he was one of my first town reads.

 

[The Wizard]

Aside from keeping the point from getting dragged out longer than it needs to, I'm still thinking about Neon's thoughts about potential partnerships. I could be in a tunnel here one way or another, but that still felt like an odd suggestion to bring up.

I'm not sure I follow, what stands out about Neon for you here?

 

[Sorian]

I would shoot Zipped, nin, or Muffin. If I really had to choose, probably Zipped since he is the most unknown to me and I don't ever read him well anyway. I'm ignoring Blarg because if he does start posting, he is easy to read anyway

It's odd to me that Sorian seems frustrated here, like he wants more people to pull on the Ty thread but doesn't want to do it himself.
If the "good" play is to not tunnel hard on a perceived minor slip why praise Geno for coming in and doing just that?

You're right, I wanted someone to pull on the thread. It's not worth it to me because it resolves itself with some flips but the fact that no one went for it is weird in itself. Also, playing well or poorly doesn't always mean playing town or scum. My praise on Geno is half joking because everyone's thoughts were already out there and I have no way of knowing if he was following the thread this whole time and decided to finally post because someone noticed his absence or if he really did forget and that was an honest first reaction but, in the moment, last night I would have townread the "bad" play of tunneling on a potential honest mistake because it was clear the room did not want to do that and on day 1, its easier for scum to control the flow of the game since they have all the info and we have none. That's also why I came out liking TWE since he at least went for it.

 

[Fireblend]

What posts make you feel that way about Sorian?

Mostly these:

I'm 100% aware that I'm doing it too but I think it's weird that everyone is being coy about this Ty thing. I feel like I've seen the sentiment of "I have feeling X about this but I'm going to wait and see what Ty says." If Ty is town then that could just be hiding scum waiting to see if town is planning to go with it and if Ty is scum, that could be his teammates waiting to see if they have to bus or it will blow over. What's frustrating is this laid back wait and see approach would be a scum tell if it wasn't most of the players on the last page.

I liked this one, I actually had a post that I'd started to write on people being coy but when I was collecting reactions the only one I could truly call that was Neon's, so I deleted it, but I think Sorian ended up articulating what I wanted to say anyway.

Then later when Chuggs started the whole "I don't want to say" thing, Sorian was the one who jumped on it instead of the more passive reaction of "ok huh guess we gotta wait for Ty to show up, explain the thing and for Chuggs to go yeah that was it":

I don't really think anyone needs to dig Ty out, no, even though I can tell you really want to say the answer Chuggs. More my point is that Ty's alignment doesn't really matter at this point. I don't think the comment actually tells me anything but I do think scum would have taken the wait and see approach. My problem is everyone is just kind of reacted the same way.

And the reaction post-"reveal"

I feel like Chuggs and to a lesser extent Wizard were selling me a bigger explanation for Ty, there’s no way you were both just expecting him to say simple misreading right?

I don’t like the explanation, lying here isn’t automatically a scum tell but I don’t believe at all that the comment just came from misreading, it’s too weird of a jump.

and then his post which feels congruous with all that and I'm not quoting.

Not that I'm hard agreeing with Sorian on everything but that initial push was justified and I liked it.

 

[Fireblend]

His vote* not his post (for the second to last sentence).

 

[Sorian]

Adding turmoil to this group, he was one of my first town reads.

What made him an early town read?

And that read hasn't evolved in any way with his new posts?

 

[Ty4on]

What made him an early town read?

And that read hasn't evolved in any way with his new posts?

Vibes. Not quite sure how to describe the way he is reading me, but it's a very natural and straightforward read.
Also more vibes, he's kinda just posting what he comes across and finds interesting. Seems to be coming from a pure place.

That read came after ISOing him.

 

[Hedin]

==== DAY 1 VOTES ====
Day Start

Ty4on (3 votes)
HPSauce - #345
Geno - #402
Alexem - #448

turmoil7 (3 votes)
CaptainNuevo - #36
Fireblend - #384
malus - #416

Chuggernaut (2 votes)
turmoil7 - #169
Sorian - #377

Neon (1 votes)
Chuggernaut - #240

Fireblend (0 votes)
Natiko - #378 #453

Not voting: The Wizard, Neon, Muffin, Sawneeks, Franconp, Zippedpinhead, melonrabbit, Ty4on, nin1000, Natiko, TheWorthyEdge, Blargonaut

Post Counts:
Chuggernaut: 81 Sorian: 60 Franconp: 45 HPSauce: 42 melonrabbit: 37 nin1000: 36 Ty4on: 32 Fireblend: 28 turmoil7: 27 Alexem: 22 Sawneeks: 19 CaptainNuevo: 18 The Wizard: 17 TheWorthyEdge: 13 Neon: 12 Natiko: 11 Geno: 10 Muffin: 8 malus: 8 Zippedpinhead: 5

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

 

[The Wizard]

and then his post which feels congruous with all that and I'm not quoting.

The prodding here is okay but I'm looking at Sorian on Chuggs and it feels forced to me like the vote comes first and the justification follows.
I also find it notable that the push on Chuggs is a defense of Neon, the low hanging fruit angle feels like a stretch to me.
Vote: Sorian

 

[HPSauce]

Does @Blargonaut know the game has started? lmao

 

[Sorian]

The prodding here is okay but I'm looking at Sorian on Chuggs and it feels forced to me like the vote comes first and the justification follows.
I also find it notable that the push on Chuggs is a defense of Neon, the low hanging fruit angle feels like a stretch to me.
Vote: Sorian

I'm not sure how you arrive at the vote coming before the justification when I was already shading and sussing Chuggs all over the place ever since last night. I'll give you that the vote is a defense on Neon considering it is since I'm voting for Chugg's based on his bad (fake) read on Neon but my throughline of how I got to that vote is extremely clear if you were reading the thread.

 

[Geno]

Also hoping to hear more from Geno as he catches up.

I was caught up, didn't have much to say that stuck out to me.

 

[Franconp]

I would really love some other insight about this:

But I don't really like this one. I don't like the timming. There is 1 minute between both posts (and reading the thread yesterday live they were really quick). I find it hard to believe that Ty went back to read the rules between both posts and made a post in that time frame.

I don't dislike Ty's lasts posts but I'm still bothered by this (and that he never addressed it). I want someone elses thoughts on that point to get over this (or increase my paranoia, I'm fine with that too).

 

[Ty4on]

Does @Blargonaut know the game has started? lmao

Oh Blarg is in this game :o

 

[Sorian]

I would really love some other insight about this:



I don't dislike Ty's lasts posts but I'm still bothered by this (and that he never addressed it). I want someone elses thoughts on that point to get over this (or increase my paranoia, I'm fine with that too).

The timing isn't crazy to me. The claim is that he went back and only read the first half of that sentence and assumed exchange was going to lead to sharing exp. In that world, he goes back doesn't take time to actually read the rules and comes back and immediately posts again. That's doable in 60 seconds.

 

[Ty4on]

I would really love some other insight about this:



I don't dislike Ty's lasts posts but I'm still bothered by this (and that he never addressed it). I want someone elses thoughts on that point to get over this (or increase my paranoia, I'm fine with that too).

Darn, we can't check for seconds with timestamps here ._.

With the way that I read stuff tho 1 minute is quite a long time and I feel like it helps explain why I didn't read it very thoroughly. I was heading for bed so I wasn't gonna dig deep into all of the rules lol
I can't remember very clearly exactly how I went through all of that, but I think I just saw exchange and thought you could trade between players and completely forgot it was the wording used for buying abilities.

 

[Ty4on]

dont forget to send us an audio message :)

Oh no, I was hoping people had forgotten D:

 

[The Wizard]

I'm not sure how you arrive at the vote coming before the justification when I was already shading and sussing Chuggs all over the place ever since last night. I'll give you that the vote is a defense on Neon considering it is since I'm voting for Chugg's based on his bad (fake) read on Neon but my throughline of how I got to that vote is extremely clear if you were reading the thread.

For me the coyness feels NAI since Chuggs is a chatterbox and I can see it just wanting to try to sit in the uncomfortable silence since it can move the game more even if it means having to bite your tongue a bit. I feel like scum taking a wait and see approach just don't bother to comment that is what they are doing and draw attention to it. Maybe I just find that concept of sitting on an idea relatable cause I struggle with the keeping quiet part too sometimes.
I did go back and check your reaction to the Neon vote and it's fairly clear you disagree but the actual pressure on Chuggs for it comes later with the vote which is what makes it feel more backwards to me.

I got to work and was going to sit at the computer and do this

VOTE: Chuggernaut

but then I got an immediate call that kept me for over an hour and now you've actually answered but I still like the vote for now. You started slight town read for me but that's only because you wanted to move past the fluff beginning stuff but my goodwill was already running out last night. Your reads on Neon's posts have been like the polar opposite of mine which makes me feel like you are trying to make a case that isn't there (it also reeks of some slight OMGUS) and I did not get the vibe from what you were saying yesterday that you just read it as a misinterpretation of the rules.

Like Neon gets brought up more here a while after Chuggs has voted and then your next few posts are digging through it.

 

[The Wizard]

if you were reading the thread.

Also I don't have enough xp to unlock this skill :(

 

[Chuggernaut]

Just to be clear, I do not endorse a Sorian vote and I don’t think that’s the move.

Catching up and I do actually agree with Nat about the Alex vote. Doesn’t read like he believes that’s going to flip scum.

 

[Chuggernaut]

I forgot Muffin was in this game tbh

 

[The Wizard]

The use of info flip on day one bothers me with Alex. Usually info flip is a few days in and there's some unresolved counterwagon it would be good to have the answer to.

 

[Chuggernaut]

@malus question: have you changed up your play style at all?

 

[Neon]

back from work. Making my way through posts. Bear with me.

So what's your read on Ty?

From what I saw from their response , I'm slightly neutral-group/scum reading them. I don't completely buy that they confused exchanging points with sharing points. But that's as far as my read goes for now. I do agree with Sorian saying that it is a problem that could be solved later on though.

ads weirdly because the first statement is you hadn't read the game specific rules, and then you say you *had* read the rules before making the post in question, so why say the first thing at all unless you're trying to bury the lede there/soften the later admission.

I just don't like that specific reaction to Ty's post because it feels like pointing it out to make sure people see it (again, very coy) and having someone else chase it down rather than asking him about it yourself or checking beforehand and taking part of the convo.

Timeline was as follows: Started posting an hour after once the game went up, skipped page one. Read about the whole exchange confusion, went back and read the rules. Read it twice because I was sure I missed something, then got confused when I saw nothing of the sort. hence my post.

on earth do you think Neon is town. You can say he’s thinking about alternate worlds but that does nothing to me when the worlds are half assed. The case he had linking me and Fran to being scum if Ty was town don’t actually read like a complete thought. For Turms it’s literally nothing.

You cannot predict the thoughts of one who has no thoughts himself.

To be perfectly frank. I was mostly synthesizing possible alternatives at 10 PM with a half baked microsoft word list of possible interactions. I do like to consider alternatives, but the justifications as you have put, were weak on the grounds that I had almost no information other than "vibes".

 

[The Wizard]

Just to be clear, I do not endorse a Sorian vote and I don’t think that’s the move.

Is this just vibes or did anything seem like a town tell?

 

[Chuggernaut]

The use of info flip on day one bothers me with Alex. Usually info flip is a few days in and there's some unresolved counterwagon it would be good to have the answer to.

I don’t hate the idea of a day 1 info flip, but again, I think Ty just flips town and that feels like a waste of time.

Also Wiz I swear to god if you’re trying to pocket me right now because of the mind meld comment it’s working and I’m just going to roll with it. But I have my eye on you

 

[Sorian]

Alexem isn't quite a blank for me this game but nothing they've said has made me feel anything one way or another. He probably doesn't believe that Ty is going to flip scum though. I'd be shocked if any of them truly believe in their heart of hearts that he will flip scum (maybe Geno does I guess) because the attitude looks more to me like they need to check the slip instead of just trusting whether it was a real slip or not.

I feel like I didn't explain that well, I feel like those voters might be doing the "mechanically correct" thing of having to check the slip which is basically the way MU would play it.

 

[Sawneeks]

==== DAY 1 VOTES ====
Day Start

Ty4on (3 votes)
HPSauce - #345
Geno - #402
Alexem - #448

turmoil7 (3 votes)
CaptainNuevo - #36
Fireblend - #384
malus - #416

Chuggernaut (2 votes)
turmoil7 - #169
Sorian - #377

Neon (1 votes)
Chuggernaut - #240

Fireblend (0 votes)
Natiko - #378 #453

Not voting: The Wizard, Neon, Muffin, Sawneeks, Franconp, Zippedpinhead, melonrabbit, Ty4on, nin1000, Natiko, TheWorthyEdge, Blargonaut

Post Counts:
Chuggernaut: 81 Sorian: 60 Franconp: 45 HPSauce: 42 melonrabbit: 37 nin1000: 36 Ty4on: 32 Fireblend: 28 turmoil7: 27 Alexem: 22 Sawneeks: 19 CaptainNuevo: 18 The Wizard: 17 TheWorthyEdge: 13 Neon: 12 Natiko: 11 Geno: 10 Muffin: 8 malus: 8 Zippedpinhead: 5

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

I've only skimmed so far and hope to get time much later to catch up.

The votes aren't exciting to me and I'm bummed about it. Why are people on turm?

Should I vote chuggs and bring it up to a 3 way tie? Could be exciting.

I need to read over the whole Ty slip thing again. I keep seeing it and just eyes glazing over it. Boring, but I'll read it again tonight. I remember not liking his return response to it but I cant quantify why.

 

[Chuggernaut]

You cannot predict the thoughts of one who has no thoughts himself.

To be perfectly frank. I was mostly synthesizing possible alternatives at 10 PM with a half baked microsoft word list of possible interactions. I do like to consider alternatives, but the justifications as you have put, were weak on the grounds that I had almost no information other than "vibes".

I’m going to leave the vote there for now, but I’m gonna leave you alone and I want to see what you end up getting up to outside of this and I’ll make a call on what I think your alignment is based on that

 

[Geno]

Like it or not, Ty dug himself into a hole, he must be flipped, you might not want it to happen D1, but eventually we have to flip him.

 

[Chuggernaut]

Is this just vibes or did anything seem like a town tell?

It’s not like a “oh Sorian has to be town” but I get the impression he believes what he’s saying just based on our back and forth. I think he’s stubborn. But that’s nothing new and that doesn’t make him scum

 

[Ty4on]

Alexem isn't quite a blank for me this game but nothing they've said has made me feel anything one way or another. He probably doesn't believe that Ty is going to flip scum though. I'd be shocked if any of them truly believe in their heart of hearts that he will flip scum (maybe Geno does I guess) because the attitude looks more to me like they need to check the slip instead of just trusting whether it was a real slip or not.

I feel like I didn't explain that well, I feel like those voters might be doing the "mechanically correct" thing of having to check the slip which is basically the way MU would play it.

The hottest new meme on MU is that slips aren't real. By new I mean 2017 which was last year.

 

[Chuggernaut]

Like it or not, Ty dug himself into a hole, he must be flipped, you might not want it to happen D1, but eventually we have to flip him.

There’s multiple ways to resolve that slot without actually flipping him this is role madness baby

 

[Sorian]

Like it or not, Ty dug himself into a hole, he must be flipped, you might not want it to happen D1, but eventually we have to flip him.

This is a man who does not think of what Ty will flip as, he just knows that the mechanics need Ty to flip. Thank you for proving my above point.

I think all three of the Ty voters are in this camp, I don't even think this is a scum tell because I used to take advantage of MU players who thought like this all the time.