The Evil Lair of Misunderstood Heroes

[Alexem]

I've pulled back my vote in case I looked too eager. To be honest, I wouldn't mind a day at work where I could set the game aside for a bit!

 

[malus]

I might just end it once somebody puts me into hammer range. I don't want to accidentally incriminate somebody.

 

[Alexem]

If you're going to do that, I'd better back off and let someone else put you at hammer point. The XP would be handy, but it would be better not to make it look like I'm setting up a bus.

 

[Alexem]

I'm trying to run through who might be the shopkeeper. Melon seems to be hinting at being a hider, although that doesn't tally up with them moving to Nat last night. Either way, if they were the shopkeeper, it would have been Nat sharing that information, not Ty. Assuming that the town claims we've had so far are legit and there's no overlap between the shopkeeper and any other role, the candidates are looking like:

• Natiko
• Fran
• Worthy
• Geno
• Turmoil
• Sneeks/Aeleus

It also worries me a little that without Malus, we're going to have to get to (at least) six players without any extra kills (unless Sorian can kill his chat partner). That seems steep to me. We could do with a neutral popping up and taking out a lot of townies in one go without hitting us, and unless the shopkeeper's playing by KingKitty rules and is going to blow up their customers when they check out, that seems like a big ask.

 

[Alexem]

It also goes without saying that the vote bomb's pretty much off the table unless we can all go very deep into the endgame or it becomes very clear I won't survive a following day phase for some reason. With our numbers, losing someone for a day kill's too expensive.

 

[Alexem]

Note for the room - now that Malus has used the Crusader safety claim, that leaves Monk and Blacksmith for myself and Wiz. If I had to use a fake lie detector claim today, I was planning to use Monk as flavour with that.

 

[Hedin]

Do we get xp if I vote for myself?

Xp processes after so no, you would not receive XP for a self vote.

 

[Sorian]

I'm trying to run through who might be the shopkeeper. Melon seems to be hinting at being a hider, although that doesn't tally up with them moving to Nat last night. Either way, if they were the shopkeeper, it would have been Nat sharing that information, not Ty. Assuming that the town claims we've had so far are legit and there's no overlap between the shopkeeper and any other role, the candidates are looking like:

• Natiko
• Fran
• Worthy
• Geno
• Turmoil
• Sneeks/Aeleus

It also worries me a little that without Malus, we're going to have to get to (at least) six players without any extra kills (unless Sorian can kill his chat partner). That seems steep to me. We could do with a neutral popping up and taking out a lot of townies in one go without hitting us, and unless the shopkeeper's playing by KingKitty rules and is going to blow up their customers when they check out, that seems like a big ask.

I was thinking about this and while I don't think melon is the shopkeeper, it's probably worth noting that opening the shop is probably the same as a gossip chat meaning it's a day command. The track would have picked up night commands. Now could she target Nat at night while also having opened a shop during the day? Absolutely. But I also have to assume the shopkeeper isn't following the same rules everyone else is since they apparently used a command during day 1.

 

[Sorian]

Kind of a bummer about our exp situation because I think I want to push to learn my night chat tonight. I have an interesting plan but I can't really do it until I night chat with someone and learning one night but not being able to open the chat until the following night means it takes forever.

 

[The Wizard]

Sorry malus :( tough break.

Note for the room - now that Malus has used the Crusader safety claim, that leaves Monk and Blacksmith for myself and Wiz. If I had to use a fake lie detector claim today, I was planning to use Monk as flavour with that.

I'm fine with taking blacksmith!

 

[Alexem]

Kind of a bummer about our exp situation because I think I want to push to learn my night chat tonight. I have an interesting plan but I can't really do it until I night chat with someone and learning one night but not being able to open the chat until the following night means it takes forever.

I think it's going to come down to whether we think the strong kill is important enough to use first. As you mentioned, it's going to take a couple of day phases for the gossip thread to pay off - if you claim it tonight, it'll need to be activated in D4, then you'll have to get through D4 and N4 without getting voted out, checked or killed. Not impossible, but not necessarily an easy task.

I should mention now that ending the day early's going to make things more difficult for me in D4, as I've got my work Christmas dinner on Thursday night and I won't be around for the last five hours or so of the phase, assuming that it starts 24 hours earlier than it should have. If anyone starts a train against me after 5:00 pm UTC, I won't have a chance to defend myself.

 

[Alexem]

I'm hoping that I haven't pushed my luck with that appeal to hold back on the hammer, but if I can stall D4's EoD back to Friday as it should have been, that'll give me the chance to act in case anything goes wrong.

I've also been considering how to handle the fake lie detector claim in case I need to explain what I've been up to for three nights. It'd be best if I avoid moving, just in case I'm a target for some kind of observer. I'd also considered prompting Chuggs with a question about whether or not he knows that his fruit is safe, but I'm a little nervous about the possibility of him being neutral for some reason. In theory, if he flipped neutral with no indication of partners, that shouldn't look like a setup, but I just don't want to bring any more heat on us than necessary.

 

[Sorian]

You might be over thinking it, just go with the flow, solve and little and act natural

 

[Alexem]

Me, overthink things in a game of mafia? As if I've ever done that! I mean, apart from practically every game I've played...

 

[Alexem]

it’s very clear it doesn’t do that. The word poison is nowhere in the PM

Trap set. Either that'll buy me a bit of breathing room or it'll look bad for Chuggs if I get the boot.

 

[The Wizard]

Roster by XP (+1 if they are on the malus vote):

• turm - 6 +1
  • A weak town role?
• Ael - 6
• TWE - 5 +1
• Fran - 5 +1
• Ty - <5 (spent some on shop)
  • Rng commuter
• Geno 4
• Natiko 2/4 (if they spent 2 on a T1 it was blocked) +1
• chuggs - 3 (spent 2 on T1 on N1)
  • Fruit vendor
• Muffin 2 (spent 2 to learn T1 on N2)
  • Gossip
• nin - 2 (spent 4 on T2 double N2, T1 is beloved)
  • Mayor
• melon 1/3 (spent 2/4 on an action targeting Nat N2)
  • Crumbed hider?
• Blarg 1 (spent 4 on T2 role block N2)
  • Inno child with a role block
• Zipped 1 (spent 4 on T2 cop check N2) +1
  • Joat with a cop shot

I wouldn't stretch too far to make it happen (and a lot of them are already on) but denying people with odd xp totals the vote is a nice bonus. In particular denying Chuggs who might otherwise use their T2 as confirmation tonight.
I think malus self voting and taking the XP to the grave is still better for us than town accumulating more, but it's a pretty minor bonus.

 

[The Wizard]

I'm trying to run through who might be the shopkeeper.

Spoilering if you prefer to avoid TMI

Spoiler: Shopkeeper spec

I agree with starting with this list.

Turmoil7

Did Hedin post something like "you have been invited to a chat" or something ? Maybe it was a permissions issue with the forum

Maybe making a chat at night could be a Tier 1 scum ability. They just decided to not post there

Was the people who run the shop a player of this game or the game runners?

Rn I'm feeling neutral on the shopkeeper role

The speculation about a scum ability and clarification on who runs the shop makes me think it is not turm.

Ael
Mostly avoids talking about the shopkeeper, so that one is possible. However didn't give any read on Ty today despite overnight chatting and Ty also mentioned wanting more from them today.

TWE

Wait…nin is in this game? Ooooh baby…

I could see TWE being one of the people who would choose to pick nin day 1

cum: Zipped, Turm, Melon
Null but ready to kill: Chuggs (S)
Town: Natiko, Blarg, Geno, The Wizard, Sorian, Saw
Null: Malus (T), Alexem (T), Muffin (S), Captain, Nin, HP, Fran (T), Ty

He did have Ty as null yesterday, so if the shop is picked it's a bit odd to not go for a town read. The shop could also be random?

what the hell

Reaction to the nin situation, doesn't ask any questions around the shopkeeper or chat otherwise.

Fran

What?

Did it had a link? Did you ask Hedin?

Why all the weird things happen with Nin?

Either Nin is lying or maybe a messenger is trolling him?

Why would Nin lie at this point? He only has a vote on him, there wasn't much pressure yet to claim something so ridiculous.

I think being baffled by nin's claim points to Fran not being clued in to the shopkeeper chat.

Blarg, Ty had a chat with the shopkeeper so it's likely a day action, like a gossip. In that case they don't care if he commutes.

Now, the shopkeeper made chats N1 and N2 (if that was the chat that Nin missed). So, they don't care about xp? It's not possible to use abilities N1 and N2. You can't have enought xp. Also why target Nin N1? That doesn't seem like someone who a townie would target. To me it seems like a neutral role.

With the info that we have I don't think they are bad so I don't think we should care much about them in the near future.

Again the spec here seems odd if it is Fran's role.

Geno

Muffin could easily prove his role, however in this very community we've had scum gossip before, just saying. Idk what nin is doing, did Hedin give you a link that lead nowhere or what?

Hpsauce and ty4on don't exist in the same game
vote:Ty4on

Ty's description of the shopkeeper chat seemed amicable and I don't see these two not butting heads rn.

Natiko

I do think Nin was being honest yesterday, especially with Ty corroborating it, which makes me feel a little better there.

That’s true if you assume the shopkeeper isn’t mafia. Is that what you’re assuming here, then?

Yeah, it is weird for them to be revealed. Maybe there’s a specific reason for it? I don’t get overtly scummy vibes from what Ty shared, and short of pushing for the bake in order to vote then I don’t know what law there is to really look at there currently.

Missed most of the in the moment reactions, I think these look slightly outside the shopkeeper pov but it's not much.

melon
being lazy here but I don't think it is melon

Then what are they spending their xp on? Hmm.

Like I can't think of way this works as town and no one has come forward. Is there a reason why Ty shouldn't just give the name at this point? I don't think we can discuss/solve much else with the info we have.

Spoiler: TLDR

Most -> Least likely for shopkeeper:
TWE >> Ael, Nat >> Fran >>> turm, melon, Geno

TWE would be my guess, didn't seem to care about XP and reactions make the most sense to me. Also as the game goes on more odds we get invited so may not need to figure this out. I think we want to keep them alive in case they are a neutral who exits.

 

[Alexem]

If things don't pick up in the game thread by the evening, I'll kick the tyres about finishing off the vote. By now we shouldn't have a short night phase, and if the phase ends on a Friday, there's a chance that townies might be pre-occupied and we might be able to benefit from a slower EoD.

Interesting thinking about the shopkeeper, and having Worthy as your top pick makes sense. If whoever it is lands on us then we can sound them out and, as long as they don't have a costume account, we can blow the whistle in here. I'd be cautious about giving them too much XP, and it'd be worth asking if their goods smell of petrol (not that they'd really say anything if they do), but an early winner might help with our numbers. That said, if we know who they are and there's good reason to think that they're hostile, then as long as we're careful about it, we could potentially have them offed for town cred if things look bad for us.

 

[Sorian]

Ty makes it sound like there's no costume account and he just knows who it is. I'm always of the opinion to just help benign neutrals anyway and I get the feeling this person is just an exp siphon so even if they got outed, I would push hard to keep them playing until they won.

 

[malus]

Ty makes it sound like there's no costume account and he just knows who it is. I'm always of the opinion to just help benign neutrals anyway and I get the feeling this person is just an exp siphon so even if they got outed, I would push hard to keep them playing until they won.

Agreed, my working theory is that they'll exit once they've made enough xp from trades.
From Tys description of the shop it seems even the shopkeeper doesn't know if any of the items have an effect or not.

Spoilering if you prefer to avoid TMI

Spoiler: Shopkeeper spec

I agree with starting with this list.

Turmoil7




The speculation about a scum ability and clarification on who runs the shop makes me think it is not turm.

Ael
Mostly avoids talking about the shopkeeper, so that one is possible. However didn't give any read on Ty today despite overnight chatting and Ty also mentioned wanting more from them today.

TWE

I could see TWE being one of the people who would choose to pick nin day 1

He did have Ty as null yesterday, so if the shop is picked it's a bit odd to not go for a town read. The shop could also be random?

Reaction to the nin situation, doesn't ask any questions around the shopkeeper or chat otherwise.

Fran



I think being baffled by nin's claim points to Fran not being clued in to the shopkeeper chat.


Again the spec here seems odd if it is Fran's role.

Geno


Ty's description of the shopkeeper chat seemed amicable and I don't see these two not butting heads rn.

Natiko



Missed most of the in the moment reactions, I think these look slightly outside the shopkeeper pov but it's not much.

melon
being lazy here but I don't think it is melon

Spoiler: TLDR

Most -> Least likely for shopkeeper:
TWE >> Ael, Nat >> Fran >>> turm, melon, Geno

TWE would be my guess, didn't seem to care about XP and reactions make the most sense to me. Also as the game goes on more odds we get invited so may not need to figure this out. I think we want to keep them alive in case they are a neutral who exits.

I think melon is pretty much out of the picture for shopkeeper. If her source of xp was the shop she wouldn't have gotten any from nin to buy an ability to visit Natiko last night.
Also Ty4on obviously thinks the shopkeeper is no threat to Town, otherwise he would have outed them. Se maybe we can learn something from his reads.

 

[Alexem]

Fair enough, I think the role's just making me a little paranoid since all that we know about it is:

• The item that Ty was sold was a waste of XP
• From the vague descriptions of the items, it's possible that they might be harmful
• There's no clear reason for the shopkeeper to gain XP

If the shopkeeper does pose any kind of risk, I just want to make sure that they're more of a threat to town than they are to us.

 

[malus]

I'm ready to hammer myself if anybody wants to grab the last piece of xp.

 

[malus]

It's been an honor o7
Good luck!

 

[The Wizard]

lol I also also posted a hammer+1 vote alex
Have fun in spec malus, we’ll do our best!

 

[The Wizard]

*almost

 

[Alexem]

Thanks Malus, we'll do our best for you!

Theoretical experience counts going in to N3:

• Sorian: 6 XP (+1)
• Alexem: 5 XP
• Wizard: 6 XP

 

[Alexem]

Depending on whether or not my vote counts, my theoretical count might be 6 XP as well, will see what's posted in the main thread.

 

[The Wizard]

I think we have 5 xp so our shopping options tonight are Alexs strong kill or Sorians gossip. Assuming the gossip is also a day command that might be preferable to get earlier.

Also not sure if the shop / gossip opened yet or in 5 hours, I didn't get invited to any.

 

[Alexem]

I think starting the gossip strategy would be a good idea as well. I still have my roleblock shot, but with nobody clearly threatening to do something it'd be a crapshoot.

Something else that I just realised - Melon most likely isn't the shopkeeper, as Malus saw them moving to Natiko during N2. Even if the shop thread counted as movement, Ty would have been visited, not Nat. I haven't received an invite to the shop either, although that doesn't really surprise me given what I'd been speculating about in the main thread.

 

[Sorian]

I don’t seem to have a chat either.

I’m good with starting the gossip stuff now, can’t promise it’s an amazing plan but it starts to mechanically “clear” me and I’ve breadcrumbed a couple things in thread to bring the whole picture together. I’ll need that because no one trusts me in late game unless I’ve done something big

 

[Alexem]

I don’t seem to have a chat either.

I’m good with starting the gossip stuff now, can’t promise it’s an amazing plan but it starts to mechanically “clear” me and I’ve breadcrumbed a couple things in thread to bring the whole picture together. I’ll need that because no one trusts me in late game unless I’ve done something big

If someone's going to end up whipping out the Memento meme, might as well give 'em a reason to.

 

[The Wizard]

Ok so we were given 2x ninja and 2x strong modifiers.

For strong we've seen:
- Neons bodyguard and heal (and deflect?)
- Febe's bodyguard
- HPs Ascetic and Nexus?

and seen claimed:
- Blargs roleblock
- Ty's commuter?
- melon's hider?

Typing that out I'm not sure how a few of those interact with a strong kill but the point behind we've seen a lot of ways for town to manipulate or prevent a night kill.

For ninja we've seen:
nothing

So I'm inclined to think there is more than one track/watch/motion detect that could be up in the air tonight and the ninja is a better modifier for us rn.

 

[The Wizard]

It wouldn't shock me if Zipped has a track at T1, pairing track with a cop seems reasonable

 

[Alexem]

Since Sorian's ninja kill is still available and the gossip command presumably won't be used until tomorrow, if that's our kill for tonight and Wiz and I sit still, that should keep any observational players who target us from seeing anything.

 

[Sorian]

If we go down that route (and we probably should), you both jjst need to have a reason for not moving tonight with the exp you have. The more exp people have, the more people will assume a night action

 

[Sorian]

@Hedin can I just have a mod confirmed post of how much group exp we have available to spend?

 

[Hedin]

@Hedin can I just have a mod confirmed post of how much group exp we have available to spend?

Your team has 5xp

 

[Alexem]

I'll have to go with the lie detector 'claim' now that I've set it up. It's not that strong and I don't know how long it'll stand up for, but it might buy me a day or two and maybe it'll make it look like Chuggs is connected to me. Hardly a master plan by any stretch, but at least it's an excuse of some kind that wouldn't involve moving.

 

[Sorian]

The thing I would keep in mind is that you aren't actually that scum read. I think people have more stronger reads and near the end, I actually saw more people side eyeing me and Wiz than you. I only say that because I'm not sure if your intention is to pre-emptively claim before you get too much heat which a lot of people would see as a scum play unless you are claiming for a reason (you saw something you shouldn't have seen as an example). Of course, have a claim lined up and ready if you are pushed hard and its nearing day end but just more want to urge that you don't claim too early and hurt yourself for it.

1) It sounds like we are fine with me learning the gossip chat? I'll ninja today as well so all three of us show no movement unless someone feels strongly, we should save it?

2) Who are we thinking for the actual kill? I haven't put too much thought into it myself, but I'll probably look through again tonight and have more ideas.

 

[The Wizard]

Wanna get some thoughts down but they might come out like this:

 

[The Wizard]

Sorry got pulled away with dinner, now full of chinese food and harebrained strategy.

Spoiler: potential victims

• turm - 6 +1
  • A weak town role?
• Ael - 6
• TWE - 5 +1
• Fran - 5 +1
• Ty - <5 (spent some on shop)
  • Rng commuter
• Geno 4
• Natiko 2/4 (if they spent 2 on a T1 it was blocked) +1
• chuggs - 3 (spent 2 on T1 on N1)
  • Fruit vendor
• Muffin 2 (spent 2 to learn T1 on N2)
  • Gossip
• nin - 2 (spent 4 on T2 double N2, T1 is beloved)
  • Mayor
• melon 1/3 (spent 2/4 on an action targeting Nat N2)
  • Crumbed hider?
• Blarg 1 (spent 4 on T2 role block N2)
  • Inno child with a role block
• Zipped 1 (spent 4 on T2 cop check N2) +1
  • Joat with a cop shot

- 13 non-scum right now. 12 if Blarg poison is uninterrupted which would be very nice as blarg is a threat IMO
- earliest final is 8 or 7 if all 3 of us survive. So cut those 12 down to 4/5 = 7-8 bodies to pile up
- N3 rn, so Nd Nd Nd N in terms of Night kills and day elims to get to day 7 with 8 people
- a neutral who exits or a whiffed vig shot would be a great bonus for us but we can't count on it
- There's also the chance of a double kill if we are correct about melon being a hider and can hit her target but that is low % rn
- a missed kill means a 9 people day 7 for final 7 day 8 vs a no kill day. So bad, but not a complete disaster.

So if we got 4 kills to spend the rest of the game who would that go on?

Spoiler: Miselim potential

• turm - kind of in the middle of peoples reads rn. could be bullshitting about having a weaker role but would rather see go during the day.
• Ael - sneeks was slighty scumread, Ael is still ramping up. Could go either way right now, lean towards night kill.
• TWE - pretty highly townread, if they are shopkeeper they may exit as neutral.
• Fran - seems highly townread. reads are currently favourable to us but could swing back.
• Ty - has gotten a lot less heat since the inital slip, commuter claim makes an awkward target.
• Geno - not heavily townread, some slighty bad links from malus and a pure vote on day 2.
• Natiko - uninvested so easy to paint as
• Chuggs - will gain a decent amount of steam with a flipped red, if we're not killing at night may need a shove to get our during day. malus connection is bad.
• Muffin - slight sus, depends how his chat goes. Could see getting voted.
• nin - more townread than scumread but town can turn on him pretty easily. Override is a possible power here. if he misfires it that's good for us.
• melon - fairly townread but some sus for aloofness starting to build.
• Zipped - never flips before us, any more mech info he gathers is a threat, might cast some misvotes but not worth keeping

My preferences

• Zipped
• Fran
• Ael
• Chuggs

People I could see on the block tomorrow post-malus:
Chuggs, Geno, me, nat, turm

Claims could upend any of that, I'm hoping we get at least one awkward claim or red herring from a mech action to disrupt things a little in our favour.

 

[The Wizard]

• I don't think it's a bad night for the block even though it's a blindfire, the people who hit 6xp are incentivized to use it or lose it and the people who spent xp will take at least 2 days to build back up at which point I think we'll be into a mass claim. I just don't know if someone is going to pre-claim something we can easily shutdown
• I could be on board to a ninja to Zipped tonight, may cause a false red from a tracker / watcher. If there's another protect they might need to think about saving blarg and the no kill isn't horrible as Zipped is already confirmed
• Chuggs was hinting at sending a bad fruit to muffin tonight with his 4xp, I think we leave that be? It further delays muffins claim and may do nothing / slowing down xp seems scummy so I don't think it helps him that much?

 

[The Wizard]

Spoiler: Wiz fakeclaim workshop, here be TMI

Blacksmith
Inventor / gift giver type role

Gift ideas:
- Steel boots, make target loud/announcing for the night 2/4xp
- Medallion / mana amulet, target can learn and use 2xp ability again (they have to pay)
- Chain mail, bulletproof vest. 4/6xp
- Sword of justice, an extra kill? day vig? 6xp, not bought/given

Actual movements:
N1 Sorian/chuggs - unsure if switch is trackable and to whom? (2xp)
N2 Sorian (4xp)
N3 none (6xp)

Ideally would like to have given chain mail to a townread on N3 with 6xp, saved until then. Not crumbing/claiming up front cause hope is for a no-kill night which confirms the vest holder.
If seen/questioned for not moving N3, used T2 to give a cheaper vest on d2 to melon?

I'll have to go with the lie detector 'claim' now that I've set it up. It's not that strong and I don't know how long it'll stand up for, but it might buy me a day or two and maybe it'll make it look like Chuggs is connected to me. Hardly a master plan by any stretch, but at least it's an excuse of some kind that wouldn't involve moving.

Feel free to ignore if you prefer to manage the fakeclaim your own, I don't mean to backseat I'm just kinda curious about the claim and also think the claims may be make/break in a setup like this

Spoiler: alexem fake claim workshop

Can you walk me through the lie detector claim? What are the restrictions?
Two issues I could see:
1. I haven't played a ton of games with them but I think the meta looks down on them as semi-useless
2. You talked a fair bit about getting a mech check on Ty's day 1 slip, did you consider getting him on the record about it for a lie detector claim.

I know you laid the setup with Chuggs today and while it looks a teeny bit odd it's not the kind of thing that will get a ton of attention if it never gets brought up again.
---
What are your current thoughts on 2/4/6xp powers? the meta here kinda punishes partial claims so I think you need to be ready with the full set
Are you thinking of monk as a more peaceful/pacifist role? Because I think a valid JRPG interpretation opens up more flexibility as more of a martial artist type role.
Game seems to have more JOATS then not with some repeats. Risky but roleblock could fit a martial artist monk and be a double of Blarg's block. Town may be biased by seeing malus flip with a 6xp block after obvious xp greed and not realize scum have a 2nd cheaper block.
Other powers you could loot as doubles from other JOATs: deflect, a single vig hit, self-ascetic
More stuff: redirect, motion detector, watcher / self-watcher

Actual movements
N1 none (1xp)
N2 none (4xp)
N3 ? depends if block used (5xp)
One reason you could have held would be to save for a 6xp T3 but falling back to using 4xp T2 after not getting on the wagon today.

Out of curiosity Alex if you had a town 4xp roleblock where would you aim it tonight from your fake town PoV?

 

[Alexem]

I agree that Zipped might be a good candidate for the hit tonight.

• Although he's highly unlikely to have another cop shot, he might have complementary investigation roles to go with it.
• There may be townies expecting a retaliation shot, so he might have observers or motion detectors looking for activity that, if we go for a ninja kill, they won't see from us. As Wiz pointed out, that might lead to them spotting another observing player and jumping to the wrong conclusion.
• We know he's almost certainly not the shopkeeper, so he shouldn't be in a position to bounce early.

Outside of Zipped, I could see:

• Aeleus as a low info flip, although they could be facing a low activity boot if we don't hear more from them tomorrow.
• Geno could stir up some confusion relating to the tunnels involving Ty and Muffin.
• Melon could be working things out and they're not the shopkeeper, but the potential for hiding could make them an unreliable target.
• Natiko might be a risk as the game goes on - I could see him shaping up into a potential town leader if he stays in until the late stages and keeps his nose clean, but he's probably not an immediate threat.

--

With regards to my claim - I wasn't planning to come running out of the gates with it, but given that there are a fair few players who've clocked up XP without appearing to do anything, I can see some of the townies in safer positions starting to push for a mass partial claim to put some weight on what they've been doing with their experience. I'd considered getting pushed about Ty and had initially thought about fake-clearing one of his statements, but as he mostly spoke about the role that he had rather than a lot of mechanical details, I thought that could potentially be interpreted as covering for a role cop. I thought it might look better to look like I'd naturally backed out of my tunnel between D1 and D2.

For the claim involving Chuggs, my initial idea was to give a 'True' response to one of his statements about sending fruit to Worthy, but given the pace of D3, unless he's unlucky with his odds, there's a decent chance that when he sends fruit again, his target will be able to confirm it themselves, which would make my original idea for the claim pointless - if I really had a lie detector shot, why would I waste it on something that was likely to be confirmed anyway? From there, I pivoted to the poison aspect as a way of looking like I'm backing up Blarg, who's either going to flip green or get saved and might back me up for following his thinking. Going in that direction gave me the opportunity to ask Chuggs a yes or no question, so that lays a bit of groundwork for a lie detector claim rather than having it come out of nowhere.

As a lie detector's not an especially strong skill, I was planning to claim it as a 2 XP move with the justification that I wanted to hold some experience back to spend on later shots or testing the shopkeeper. I can see the logic in having a roleblock as a 4 XP move (a 'vow of silence', perhaps) without breaking the flavour too much, and it would make sense for a town roleblocker to hold back for a while since that's a role that gets stronger for town as the game goes on. Ascetic might also fit in with the monk flavour, although I think having two self ascetics in a game might make people question the balance. A 6 XP vig shot could also fit in with a warrior monk theme and potentially cover a hit if there's a two kill night for some reason, although I think we'd be lucky to get one of those.

 

[Alexem]

I'll say this for the experience mechanic - it's a clever way to force the scum team into playing gambits with fake claims sooner or later. Not only does it have the usual role madness element of not letting scum hide behind a vanilla claim, but since more or less everyone has a range of shots, it also means that you've more or less got to invent a fake JOAT claim of some kind and make it stick. The XP gain rules even introduce a time element, so you can't sit on your hands and pretend you can't do anything for the whole game.

 

[Alexem]

One thought for the roleblock - we could potentially use it on another night to stop Ty from commuting or Melon from hiding and effectively use it as an extra strong kill. That would save on having to spend 4 XP for my kill or 6 XP for Wiz's, but it would come with the risk of two of us visiting the same person, so we'd need some kind of cover for that.

 

[Sorian]

I think my one concern with Zipped is we are heavily protected from observation but we might be walking into a doctor protect and we aren't managing that at all tonight. I like the idea of a potential frame but I think the risk is high of losing the kill with so many people getting to 6 exp for the first time tonight. I still like Fran as our town pocket so I don't know if I want to go there yet but I think the current game state really has us locked into Zipped, Fran, or Ael as the kill. I don't think Chuggs is the move yet. He is enough of a topic that he'll still suck some air out of the room.

 

[Sorian]

I'm probably voting Zipped or Ael for the kill. Zipped is a risk but sometimes you just have to go for it so I'm not dissuading that one, just wanted to bring up the possibility.

I'm personally in favor of holding the roleblock tonight, I don't mind the shooting in the dark and I know we might lose it if we don't use it but I feel like we want trackers and watchers and such to work tonight since we aren't there. If I knew we would be shutting down a doc or cop then sure but I don't see any hints of one.

Also

LEARN: Tier 2

so I don't forget.

 

[Hedin]

I'm probably voting Zipped or Ael for the kill. Zipped is a risk but sometimes you just have to go for it so I'm not dissuading that one, just wanted to bring up the possibility.

I'm personally in favor of holding the roleblock tonight, I don't mind the shooting in the dark and I know we might lose it if we don't use it but I feel like we want trackers and watchers and such to work tonight since we aren't there. If I knew we would be shutting down a doc or cop then sure but I don't see any hints of one.

Also

LEARN: Tier 2

so I don't forget.

You have learned the Interrogation ability. During the day, submit the command either in here or via PM, Interrogate: Target to open a chat that night with your target.

Your team has 1xp remaining.

 

[Alexem]

That's a fair point on Zipped potentially being a doctor's pick. I think the questions there are:

• How many people have doctor or healer shots that they can use
• Will they prioritise Blarg as someone they might be able to save?

For a healer, there's a clear toss up between the two - do they save Zipped and hope that Blarg's unwell status might not be fatal or he might be saved by someone else, or do they save Blarg and hope that scum don't go for the obvious choice. Hitting Aeleus would side-step the problem neatly, I can't imagine they're a higher priority for a healer than Zipped or Blarg, but that would run the risk of Zipped coming out with another move that might catch us - which for all we know, he might not even have.

Zipped and Aeleus do seem to be our choices, then, but I don't think there's a 'right' answer between them - hitting either would carry a certain amount of risk.

 

[The Wizard]

With regards to my claim - I wasn't planning to come running out of the gates with it, but given that there are a fair few players who've clocked up XP without appearing to do anything, I can see some of the townies in safer positions starting to push for a mass partial claim to put some weight on what they've been doing with their experience.

Yeah makes sense, always better to have something in hand if town gets claim hungry

As a lie detector's not an especially strong skill, I was planning to claim it as a 2 XP move with the justification that I wanted to hold some experience back to spend on later shots or testing the shopkeeper. I can see the logic in having a roleblock as a 4 XP move (a 'vow of silence', perhaps) without breaking the flavour too much, and it would make sense for a town roleblocker to hold back for a while since that's a role that gets stronger for town as the game goes on. Ascetic might also fit in with the monk flavour, although I think having two self ascetics in a game might make people question the balance. A 6 XP vig shot could also fit in with a warrior monk theme and potentially cover a hit if there's a two kill night for some reason, although I think we'd be lucky to get one of those.

I think lie detector at 2xp could be reasonable with some restrictions that you can't use it as a cop.
Just bear in mind the shopkeeper became public on day 3, whereas you had 4xp on night 2.
HP had the power to make someone else ascetic so self-asectic would be a little different, but they may question it with the rest of the power set e.g Ty's commute (see Geno yesterday)
For a potential 6xp vig shot you wouldn't need a body to show up since it takes awhile to get to 10 or 12 xp and by that time you can question if it was blocked or a target was bulletproof etc.

For non-moving, thinking you're not at high risk for the kill and having a 6xp to save up for is a decent explanation as a backup IMO

I'll say this for the experience mechanic - it's a clever way to force the scum team into playing gambits with fake claims sooner or later. Not only does it have the usual role madness element of not letting scum hide behind a vanilla claim, but since more or less everyone has a range of shots, it also means that you've more or less got to invent a fake JOAT claim of some kind and make it stick. The XP gain rules even introduce a time element, so you can't sit on your hands and pretend you can't do anything for the whole game.

Yeah agreed definitely brings a nice wrinkle to the gameplay and has us on our toes!

One thought for the roleblock - we could potentially use it on another night to stop Ty from commuting or Melon from hiding and effectively use it as an extra strong kill. That would save on having to spend 4 XP for my kill or 6 XP for Wiz's, but it would come with the risk of two of us visiting the same person, so we'd need some kind of cover for that.

I think I'd prefer a strong kill in that instance since it states "can't be manipulated" so it would also cover any more town roleblocks + only needs one of us at risk.
I also don't think we want to kill Ty or melon particularly soon right now?

I'm personally in favor of holding the roleblock tonight, I don't mind the shooting in the dark and I know we might lose it if we don't use it but I feel like we want trackers and watchers and such to work tonight since we aren't there. If I knew we would be shutting down a doc or cop then sure but I don't see any hints of one.

Yeah that's a fair explanation. I could see a watcher at 6xp. The high roll for us would be a tracker seeing a watcher over zipped but I think that's unlikely to line up well for us.
I do think most scary abilities have a chance to misfire and maybe letting more chaos of 6xp shots going off could be good for us.

 

[The Wizard]

Potential T3s tonight:
- Fran
- Ael
- turm (had a reason to hoard xp tonight going to 7 which was odd)
- TWE (maybe shopkeeper, kinda want to leave alone)

Next highest unknown:
- Geno (had some posts about RNG and Joats that make me think his role is in a similar category to Chuggs or Ty where is is about one thing with better odds at higher tiers)

 

[Sorian]

I would think our best chance to frame someone would be hitting Zipped and the watcher seeing someone else on him. I don't think a watcher goes to Ael for example. The less likely option is a tracker happens to see someone going to our target but that's lower odds obviously.

It's a good point that doctors might be distracted by Blarg, I forgot about that, so it might be a good time for Zipped. Now that said, I, personally, would want to hit Zipped because he is cleared, I doubt he has another alignment check in the chamber. A vanilla ass red or green check is really strong in this game since we don't have a godfather. I have to imagine he is another JOAT like Fireblend and his other abilities have nothing to do with alignment.

 

[The Wizard]

It's a good point that doctors might be distracted by Blarg, I forgot about that, so it might be a good time for Zipped. Now that said, I, personally, would want to hit Zipped because he is cleared, I doubt he has another alignment check in the chamber. A vanilla ass red or green check is really strong in this game since we don't have a godfather. I have to imagine he is another JOAT like Fireblend and his other abilities have nothing to do with alignment.

Yeah I don't really fear more cop shots from him, it's more that any info he can gather from a T1 is unassailable. I'm guessing a track could fit and that he would target another high xp player which could be me or turm maybe? Me not moving is not horrible but I'd rather have the flexibility to have done a T3 tonight. An alibi backing a claim from a player like turm would be a bit worse for us.

 

[The Wizard]

T3s we've seen:
- Chain vig with self death
- Heal
- Hatch an egg (lmao)
- Give nexus

claimed:
- High % (guaranteed?) commute
- Gossip with a random and chosen
- Innocent child?
- give RNG fruit with a maybe xp discount

I feel like the first two we saw kinda set the bar on power level haha, some are less scary or could go either way depending on target.
There's also the argument that a neutral would probably need to fire off their 6xp to exit if they have active powers and aren't just the shopkeep.

 

[Sorian]

I think we just pull the trigger and go for Zipped. There’s enough good reason for it imo

NINJA KILL: Zipped

 

[Hedin]

I think we just pull the trigger and go for Zipped. There’s enough good reason for it imo

NINJA KILL: Zipped

Command received

 

[Alexem]

Zipped sounds like our best bet for tonight, then. Even if a healer comes into play and we don't get both Zipped and Blarg tonight, odds are good that one of them should still go.

For the next nights, we could potentially go:

• N4: Strong kill (4 XP)
• N5: Strong kill (6 XP)
• N6: Roleblock and regular kill

Depending on how much experience is in the pot after D5 the second two might need to be swapped around, but going for the proper strong kills first would be safer. In the event that I'm undeniably cooked going in to D5 or D6 for some reason there's the option of the bomb, but that'd be a last resort.

 

[Sorian]

I was promised 5-10 minutes early and I'm disappointed.

 

[Hedin]

Traffic was terrible

 

[Sorian]

Damn, it was worth a shot.

 

[The Wizard]

Tempted to gambit..

 

[The Wizard]

Actually it's a bit risky because of the movements. I would like to claim I gave someone like melon a vest and that may have prevented the kill and confirm them, but I haven't yet decided if that was a 4xp on N2 or 6xp on N3. I would prefer N2 but haven't figured out last night with the 2xp then, so I'll sit on it.

 

[Alexem]

Not perfect, but not bad. Someone's used up a doc shot of some kind, and either nobody thought Blarg was worth saving or someone's flubbed a healing shot for some reason.

Will be interesting to see what Fran has to say, but as long as he's not copped us, we hopefully shouldn't be in the firing line. Not sure what to make of the message with the flip - it doesn't look like it's anything to do with Blarg, but it's from someone who's apparently OK with Wiz and myself. If we assume that nobody's named themselves as a clue or some kind of bluff, it would be from:

• Ty
• Fran
• Geno
• Muffin
• Zipped
• Nin
• Turmoil
• Aeleus

Probably not something to worry too much about as a role, and it could potentially be related to something that's been bought from the shop.

 

[The Wizard]

My bad on thinking town had run out of protection, the delay is annoying but it doesn't seem like Zipped has anything as spicy today.

 

[The Wizard]

Geno is crumbing some failed RNG with Ael I guess

 

[Sorian]

Meh, we all knew the risk. I was just hoping someone would try to protect Blarg or something instead. I get the feeling we are going to have a few people come out with how they think they are the hero that stopped the kill.

I guess my only real worry here is if Fran is going to come and say he roleblocked me.

 

[Alexem]

I guess my only real worry here is if Fran is going to come and say he roleblocked me.

Mm, that's be a nuisance. That said, if the room isn't certain that we were lining up a delayed double hit, he might have to do some work to connect roleblocking you to saving Zipped considering that you shouldn't have been seen.

 

[Sorian]

That's more paranoia brain than anything, it would be kind of crazy to assume you roleblocked a kill on a night where someone died and he said that before I pointed out Blarg thought he was poisoned. If he really wants to go that route, I'm pretty sure I can overcome that accusation but I doubt thats what this is.

 

[Sorian]

Ty pointing out exactly what happened is worth highlighting since I’m sure a doctor would want to breadcrumb what they did

 

[Alexem]

Looks like we can scratch Aeleus off of the shopkeeper list, then.

 

[Alexem]

That's Fran out of the running as well, so our shopkeeper list comes down to:

• Worthy
• Natiko
• Turmoil
• Geno

 

[Sorian]

Man, not killing Aeleus last night was a generational fumble

 

[Sorian]

Geno, if you can read this thread, next time you post in the game thread quote somebody and "accidently" break the quote

 

[Alexem]

There's my fake claim planted. Between Melon bringing up the dodgy fruit idea again and Chuggs picking up votes from Aeleus and Nin, that felt like a good spot to drop it and throw a few people off.

Still no guarantee it'll do me any favours, but if it makes Chuggs and anyone who might be connected to him look worse, I'll take that too.

 

[Alexem]

If Aeleus is telling the truth, all of their night chats will create lover partnerships. That'd make them a decent target, but the tricky part's going to be the timing - effectively we'd have to think a night ahead to work out when they purchased the shot.

From what Ael's saying, it sounds like the chat with Geno was their 2 XP shot. After spending that during N2, they'd have finished the night with 2 XP, then gained 1 XP at the start of D3. If that's right, Ael would have only had 3 XP last night, so they wouldn't have been able to buy another shot, meaning they shouldn't be in a lovers' chat tonight. They'll finish the day with either 5 or 6 XP depending on whether or not they get a voting point, so they could buy another shot tonight for a chat on N5. There's a risk that they might delay, but if we're going to hit Aeleus, it looks like N5 may be the night to do it.

 

[Alexem]

I’m good with starting the gossip stuff now, can’t promise it’s an amazing plan but it starts to mechanically “clear” me and I’ve breadcrumbed a couple things in thread to bring the whole picture together. I’ll need that because no one trusts me in late game unless I’ve done something big

Goes without saying at this point, but you'll need to be careful bringing another gossip thread into the mix at this point. If there are four players out there with night chat skills, I could see the known chat creators getting thunderdomed at some point. It's interesting that Ty and Fran were both reluctant to name the shopkeeper - I can only assume that they must be doing something in those chats to look very pro-town.

 

[Alexem]

But fuck it, want more info? I tracked someone to Zipped last night.

Why yes, yes I do want more info.

 

[Alexem]

It's so nice for a change to see a town vs town fight unfold, know that it's town vs town and instead of doing anything, just sit back and think 'shit, this is some good town vs town'.

 

[Alexem]

Looks like Zipped was the healer, then. Not sure if town will have the nerve to bump off another healer, but stranger things have happened.

 

[Alexem]

If Turmoil's claim is correct (obviously not Zipped, brainfarted in the above post), that would mean he saved up for the healer shot and may still have a bodyguard and deflector shot in his pocket if he inherited those as well. In that case, there could be another doc or healer still out there.

 

[The Wizard]

lie detector seems to have gone over smooth so far, deployed the gift claim and hoping I don’t eat shit

 

[Sorian]

QUOTE="Sorian, post: 171316, member: 34"]
Geno, if you can read this thread, next time you post in the game thread quote somebody and "accidently" break the quote
[/QUOTE]

See this doesn't help me because the first post he did back was quoting nin and changing the image to a link. That's close enough that I can't tell lol. When I say break the quote, I mean do the above ^ Geno, help

 

[The Wizard]

I hate the town vs town fights getting ugly :(

 

[Alexem]

Yeah, that got far nastier than it needed to. No objections to Geno getting the boot today, thought I'd better take a third option so that we weren't stacking in a row!

 

[Sorian]

Just putting it into words here in case, we absolutely never kill Ael now unless we know they are out of charges. I know a lover's target is juicy but we have to hope we hit their target instead if we want that double kill. They are saying their powers are all lover creators but get progressively stronger reads to me like one of them is either going to protect the people in the chat or do a self watch that's revealed to the thread or something.

 

[Alexem]

Mm, that's a good point. A strong kill would break through protection, but self watching could make things dangerous if that turns out to be a thing.

I've been mulling the value a strong kill on Ty tonight, partly to take care of a commuter that's probably not going to get voted out any time soon, but also if Geno escapes the chop, I'm wondering what'll be made of the 'scum won't kill Ty' comment.

 

[Alexem]

The frustrating thing for me at the moment is that it's pretty damned obvious that Geno's a demotivated, checked-out townie. He's drawn a role that's not especially effective unless you find exactly the right circumstances, he's got stuck in a tunnel and now he's got a people scum reading him for not being engaged enough. If I were in town I'd be shouting that from the rooftops right now, but since we need another mis-hit, I've got to sit on my hands and keep the train viable.

 

[Alexem]

It also comes to mind that if the claims from Turmoil and Geno are correct, it comes down to Worthy and Natiko to be the shopkeeper. Worthy's statement that he knows Blarg was night killed gives me pause for thought - is he talking about a hunch or gut feeling, or is he some kind of investigator or observer after all?

I'd feel better about keeping Nat around if it weren't for the fact that he's already starting to work us out to various degrees. Given that I slipped through his fingers in Krakoa at the final hurdle, I wouldn't be surprised to see him turn the heat up on me soon.

 

[Alexem]

Welp, I can see that challenge getting me kicked up the backside sooner or later. Still, that means Nat's the likely shopkeeper. If that's the case, I doubt he's an arsonist with it, otherwise I think at least one of us would have been paid a visit by now.

 

[Sorian]

TWE is so funny sometimes lol

Also I would like to say that literally, the first time I played mafia in my life, I was scum with nin and TWE, could you imagine the hell I was in? (Love you two when you read this later)

 

[Alexem]

Shall I learn my strong kill at the start of the night? As things stand, that should leave 5 XP in the pot, so Wiz will be able to buy his strong kill on N5 - barring a bad turn of luck, that'll be more valuable than my bomb.

 

[Sorian]

I think your bomb is super useful but I also think I’m more likely to be voted out than you at this juncture so yeah, not buying that yet is definitely fine.

I just don’t know if we strong kill quite yet but it never hurts to buy

 

[Alexem]

OK, I'll unlock it when N4 begins. If we can all stay in for a few more days then the bomb might be an option, but I think we could do with losing a few more players before a trade-off becomes worthwhile.

 

[Sorian]

It’s only useful if you are already going to be voted out, never worth it to like force it to happen, which makes it really hard to use perfectly

 

[Alexem]

Heads up, I'm in a chat tonight.

 

[Sorian]

Imagine if I chose you for my chat, wouldn’t that be a riot

 

[Alexem]

The thought did cross my mind...

 

[Hedin]

Double check but I have you at 9xp available.

 

[Alexem]

LEARN: Tier 2