The Evil Lair of Misunderstood Heroes

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
LEARN: Tier 2
You have learned the Rage ability. To use it submit the command Rage Against: Target to perform a strong kill against your target. Note that this kill will take the place on your faction kill when used.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I'm in Natiko's shop tonight. He's stated upfront that while he trusted Ty and Fran, he doesn't trust me - that was clear from his reads, though. His given reason for inviting me was that I was asking Worthy about the shopkeeper role.

He hasn't offered any products yet, so I've asked if I'm right in thinking that he gets to pick from a pool of items. I've also asked if he has an experience target that he's working towards.

Bearing in mind that I'm supposed to have about 6 XP now (assuming I spent 2 XP on the 'lie detector'), how much are we willing to spend? I also have to admit to a bit of buyer's remorse over learning that strong kill, as it strikes me that if he thinks I'm scum, he'll just blow the whistle on me before he goes. If he does genuinely think that Ty and Fran are town, though, he may not be an arsonist, unless some of his products are flammable, in which case he might sell me something that'll kill me on his way out.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
The power seemed useless until you said this, are we thinking TWE can reverse fate and revive/prevent a night kill in the window between lock and day start?

That seems right, 1xp + 6(3*2 for an even day) + 2 on the vote
Yes, that’s kind of the only reason you’d have that role right? It didn’t click at first but he basically gets a “revive” after they’ve died, so it probably even ignores strong kills/protection issues.

He also would always know if he was roleblocked I guess
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
If I had been invited to the chat, I probably wouldn’t have bought anything myself, you have two days worth of people telling you that got useless stuff so I don’t think it would be weird to decline buying. Up to you though, I see no problem with spending 1 exp to satisfy curiosity.
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
Bearing in mind that I'm supposed to have about 6 XP now (assuming I spent 2 XP on the 'lie detector'), how much are we willing to spend?
If I’m town and I had 6xp and spent 2, I’d either want to spend 0xp to use my T2 that night or maybe just 1xp so I know I can still use my tier 2 tomorrow.
But just go with what you would think of with the 4xp you would have as town, don’t worry about our shared pool too much
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I made a last minute change to my gossip target before day end and they haven’t engaged yet, it’s completely plausible they just haven’t checked back because they weren’t expecting anything but I’m worried I chose a dud who doesn’t like me enough to talk
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I'm thinking of going with no deal and dropping this thought in the thread tomorrow - if town want to win, they can't let the shopkeeper bounce. If they want scum to win, pay him off so that he drops the player count (and might take a few people with him).

It's a gambit, but it might give me a stay of execution until I can get the bomb. I don't doubt for a minute that there'll be some townies who still want to pay him, and if they do then that'll move Nat towards the exit. I might get blown up in his way out (although hopefully not if I don't buy anything), but c'est la vie.
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
  • Natiko <= 9 current
    • ? spent / 7 earned
    • Shopkeeper. Gained xp from Ty and Fran, at least 2 (min 1 each)
  • TWE - 8?
    • Has some passive which reveals night kill and role?
  • Ael 3-7 current
    • 2-6 spent / 9 earned
    • spent 2/4 to learn a chat N2 and invited Geno D3
    • lover chat maker?
    • Only in a chat tonight if they spent for T1 and T2 on N2 and N3
  • Fran <= 6 current
    • 3+ spent / 9 earned
    • Spent some of the shop, spent 2/4 on a
  • Ty - <= 6 current
    • 1+ spent / 7 earned (spent some on shop)
    • Rng commuter
  • melon - 4/6 current
    • 2/4 spent on an action targeting Nat N2, 8 earned
    • Crumbed hider? JOAT with double of 2 other claimed abilities
  • Muffin - 5 current
    • spent 2 to learn T1 on N2)
    • Gossip, can target a player for a chat tomorrow
  • nin - 5 current
    • spent 4 on T2 double N2, T1 is beloved
    • Mayor
  • turm - 4xp current
    • (spent 6 on a T3 heal of Zipped N3)
    • backup (tank). Could deflect for 4 or bodyguard for 2.
  • chuggs - 3 current
    • spent 2 on T1 on N1, 4 on a T2 N3
    • Fruit vendor
  • Zipped 2/4 current
    • spent 4 on T2 cop check N2
    • JOAT with a cop shot

too much math in this game Hedin ._.
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
  • TWE moves up my list now that we now the shopkeeper is Nat. If we're right on his higher tier xp power that would be pretty bad to have someone back from the dead.
  • Ael had a very towny day, they've been sneaky so not sure if every chat is truly a lover chat or if there is some twist like if ael dies the partners alignment gets revealed
    • I am guessing they used a T1 plain lover chat with Geno so may be in a new T2 chat tonight
    • Ael is a good bodyguard target for turms
  • That may have been the window closed on Chuggs? Kind of an awkward spot now, still waiting on him to dig in on me properly.
Roles claimed in between the set of posts where melon noted 2 people claimed 2 of their abilities:
  • lie detector
  • night lover chat
  • BP vest giver
  • tracker shot
  • backup
Now they may have meant just one of these is a double and the other was earlier in the game.
I don't think they have a chat based on their reaction to the chat claimants, backup is a whole role rather than a shot, so therefore I think melon having a track is likely (may already be spent)
If they had a double of our claims that might look good, hard to say.
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
For all we know Nat is just town and not neutral btw, I don't want to get too stuck on the idea that he will exit but I think that's someone we leave alone at night rn.

For me the benefit of the bomb is you can win a 2 horse race and even if you look scummy at the end of it you still go 3 for 1 but we'd still rather not use it if possible to avoid.

Presumably the reveal of yet another gossip is a big discussion topic tomorrow, in which I think Ael still stays pretty safe but maybe Muffin vs Sorian pulls some focus.

Holding the block still makes sense to me since our main weakness is movement and it's taking a potshot and blocking the investigator vs creating a result with two movements?

Strong vs no strong I don't think makes a huge difference rn, depends on if we want to cut through a bodyguard from turms.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I do agree that we probably need to kill TWE now, maybe I’m wrong but I’m not sure what else his power could possibly be doing. Zipped still has to go to. Would Turm have enough exp to body guard shot now too?
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Yeah he does, would he bodyguard Zipped again? TWE seems like he has enough for his tier 3 which is assume is the revive. There’s a world here where we roleblock TWE, kill Zipped, wrap back to TWE for the next kill. At this point, Strong kill is either circumventing Turm or getting Ty out of here
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Worthy was making comments on how he wasn't likely to make it through the night, so that sounded like an appeal for protection.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Nat has confirmed to me that he's neutral and his win condition is to get experience from sold items. Apparently he doesn't get to control which items are available. Tonight he's offering:
  • A treasure chest
  • A roll of toilet paper
  • A map of Aeredale
  • A can of energy
I can see how all of these could be useless (the chest and can could be empty, the toilet paper is just that, the map just says 'you are here') or even harmful (the chest's a mimic, the energy is toxic).

I've raised the 'if you leave, scum get closer to winning' point - not forcefully, but it's not going to come out of nowhere.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I’ve been mulling over that the items do more or better depending on how much exp you spend, so only 1 exp? You get told something obvious or it doesn’t do anything. 5exp? Here’s some good shit. Unfortunately I don’t think it’s worth checking that tonight. I also really don’t think he’s dangerous.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I think I really like the idea of blocking TWE and killing Zipped again, maybe Turm dies instead but whatever. I think the main concern is a watcher shot at this point, we have multiple ways to be invisible but nothing to protect from alignment checks so I feel like roles that see movement are more common in this game. In which case, I guess I don’t know where that shit could be. Does Fran have all abilities themed around track/watch or is he a JOAT so 3 unrelated abilities? TWE has to be themed around that passive or whatever it is. Turm isn’t it, Natiko isn’t it. Ael and Muffin are both lover and gossip based specifically. I could see Ael having a self watch or something at high exp levels to mitigate the lovers stuff
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Zipped himself could also just be the watcher which I guess whatever, I don’t think he’s self watch unless him and TWE coordinate
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Natiko's replied to me. He's willing to go to endgame and act as kingmaker, since he knows that getting voted out by town or getting shot by scum will put the respective team in a weaker position. His preference would be to exit without dramatics, but then that's exactly what a neutral would say in this position. I think your idea about item strength relating to expenditure's a reasonable one, Sorian, but I don't think we've really got enough XP free to really put that to the test.

As it stands, we should be in a position to buy our remaining T3 shots on the next two nights, even if we lose someone. Right now we have 5 XP, so if we gain 3 XP tomorrow, we'll enter N5 with 8 XP (plus any additional points we get for voting). Spending 6 XP on Wiz's strong kill or my bomb would take us to 2 XP. We should then get another 6 XP at the start of D6 (or 4 XP if we lose someone), which would be enough for the remaining T3. That being the case, then, we could in theory afford to spend 2 XP on an item tonight to keep Natiko sweet. If my idea about Nat being an arsonist turns out to be true and I get doused in the process, then as long as Ty and Fran have been doused as well it's not really that different to me bombing out - we'd just lose a few more non-scum players in the process. Does spending 2 XP sound like a reasonable risk, then?

I've had one other thought about a potential route to setting up a vote bomb - if I'm in tomorrow night, I could use my roleblock while Wiz carries out a strong kill. If I'm spotted, I could give out a fake red check. As long as that player gets policy voted, I can then buy and arm the vote bomb in N6 with the expectation that 'boot all liars' comes into effect. That should get someone offed, and it would almost certainly put Chuggs on the block for an easy mis-hit. If I make some 'town should be careful about helping the shopkeeper' noises tomorrow, that might encourage townies to support Nat just to oppose me, which could speed along his exit. All hypotheticals, of course, but it might be a route to cutting the roster down a bit.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I’ll let you and Wiz decide if you want to spend exp since I kind of have no horse in that race any more. Your plan for the vote bomb is actually really good though. If you can waste another day on a red check, arm up, and then get voted out that’s a 2 for 1 which two days from now starting that plan would be really good, especially if Natiko gets to leave around then. It kind of depends how tomorrow goes though because I think Wizard and I are both going to be topics.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
OK, let's see what Wiz thinks about baiting Nat with 2 XP. I'm inclined to go with the energy drink. If it poisons me, then at least I shouldn't get bumped off until the end of N5, so that'll give me another night to put an action in. If that happens and either of you aren't spotted, you could even claim that you vigged me.

If I'll be roleblocking on N5 to set up a potential bomb trap, how does that make tonight look? Would that make Worthy the target for a strong kill again in case he's protected?
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I think the kill is definitely TWE or Zipped, I can’t justify anyone else with the way the poe looks right now. I guess yeah the strong kill has to happen now if we want it to be used with the way these plans are shaping up
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
OK, I'll give it an hour or so for Wiz to chime in, but after that I think I'll have to go back to keep Nat from getting too suspicious. He's gone after me pretty hard in the past (albeit a couple of times when he was scum and I was town), so even though alignments don't mean that much to him in this game, I can still see him pushing a scum read if he thinks I'm going to be an obstacle.
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
My fear would still be that Nat can be town and is choosing to play neutral as he is scum-reading you. I think 0xp / no-deal is fair if you are worried he is a neutral who exits or also 1xp if you want to use a T2
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
But if the plan is to block the next night 2xp is fine, if we drop to 3 the strong is still purchasable tomorrow.
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
Is there a world where we roleblock TWE, j'accuse him tomorrow to get him out during the day then vote bomb day 6?

14 players (3-10-1)
N4: Kill a townie
3-8-1 end of D5 miselim (fake red check?)
N5: kill a townie
2-7-1 end of D6 alex + a townie go boom
N6: kill a townie
2-6-1 start of D7
If we get a miselim and nat exits by this point we'd be down to 2 v 4

I think the risks is alex is weaker to TWE on consensus reads and we're still maybe a day short on this being a true positive for us
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Ultimately we do want Nat to leave the game to cut the numbers, and giving him some XP will move that along. It might also give me a bit of breathing room before I have to claim again - I don't have to tell the main thread how much of 'my' XP I've spent. My worry was that if I looked too eager to pay up, it might push him to give me a worse read in the game, but in all honesty there's not much point in trying to bargain with a player in his position - if he needs to take points from anyone else in the game, loyalty to town or scum means nothing.

With all that said, then, I'm going to offer 2 XP for the can of energy on the grounds that it's not going to move him out of the game too quickly. As I mentioned earlier, the 3 XP we get at the start of D5 will get us back to 6 XP for N5, and with 6 XP from the start of D6 (or 4 XP and two voting points if one of us cops it), we'll have 6 XP to buy the last shot in N6.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Is there a world where we roleblock TWE, j'accuse him tomorrow to get him out during the day then vote bomb day 6?

14 players (3-10-1)
N4: Kill a townie
3-8-1 end of D5 miselim (fake red check?)
N5: kill a townie
2-7-1 end of D6 alex + a townie go boom
N6: kill a townie
2-6-1 start of D7
If we get a miselim and nat exits by this point we'd be down to 2 v 4

I think the risks is alex is weaker to TWE on consensus reads and we're still maybe a day short on this being a true positive for us
My only concern here is that if someone's watching me or my target on N5 and they don't see anything happen, they'll call out my fake red check immediately and I'll get voted out instead of that initial mis-hit. My only non-fatal way of movement for that would be the roleblock, so I'd need to hold on to it until N5 for that to work.
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
What does roleblocking TWE do to feed into an accusation?
With the suspected power there if we don't kill TWE we would want to block there and the block could fit into corroborating a check (I think another cop is a bit rich, maybe a track to a body) on TWE?
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
With the suspected power there if we don't kill TWE we would want to block there and the block could fit into corroborating a check (I think another cop is a bit rich, maybe a track to a body) on TWE?
To me, strong killing Worthy would cut the knot - he can't stop any kills once he's gone and if any defensive players were listening to his posts about getting killed tonight, we'll bypass them and they'll waste their shots.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Ah I see, I agree with blocking him for fear of his power. I guess the issue with doing a direct fake mechanical prove that TWE is bad tomorrow moves the timeline up a day then what I'd like, I was thinking more:

14 players (3-10-1)
N4: Kill a townie
2/3-8/9-1 end of D5 (could go either way)
N5: kill a townie
2/3-6/7-1 end of D6 (fake red check of some sort)
N6: kill a townie
1/2-4/5-1 end of D7 (alex explosion)
N7: Kill a townie
Start of day 8: 1/2-3/4-0 (I'll assume Nat is gone by now)

Obviously cool if we don't get one of ourselves voted out tomorrow that 2 v 3 is a lot juicier but your way works better if we think one of us will be voted out tomorrow, which is definitely possible. I think I've bought myself some time but I have to imagine you are starting to get under scrutiny more soon Wiz.
 

The Wizard

Confidently Incorrect
I’m mainly worried about a watch on Zipped (potentially from Fran? I think if he was all tracks he’d have RNG which he seemed more skeptical of) I think a strong on TWE is less risky.

I definitely think we face more heat tomorrow maybe 2 of us on the block but I see enough room for a town option as long as we don’t get mech caught
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Assuming just a regular day with no powers catching anything, I feel like tomorrow is our hardest day for sure. I guess I'm fine with a strong kill on TWE. It could go either way, he made enough of a scene that people might watch him since he was so sure he'd die but the flip side is it's TWE and he just says shit so people might just ignore him.

Obviously if we strong, we are not doing a roleblock but I think that's fine. Alex is right that the roleblock is probably best served as cover for an alignment check or track or something when he's ready to frame someone.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Are we happy to go with a strong on Worthy, then? Zipped getting watched is a risk, but we might just have to accept that.

Natiko pushed me for 3 XP, but was OK taking 2 XP if that was my final offer - I've stuck with 2 XP, so that just needs to be confirmed. I've also made a suggestion to Nat that he should try to focus on players who look to have used their big shots and might have XP to spare. He thinks it'll take three more nights to leave the game, or two if he gets a particularly big offer.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I'm sad our roles are all so scum sounding, it would be hilarious to shoot one of our own and have TWE revive us
It's a shame Stan's not playing, 'Berserker' would have been a perfect flavour for him. Hell, the reason I know that Febe was a berserker instead of a vig was because I'd suggested that as a role for Stan's character while Garlic Monkey was getting reviewed!
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Are we happy to go with a strong on Worthy, then? Zipped getting watched is a risk, but we might just have to accept that.

Natiko pushed me for 3 XP, but was OK taking 2 XP if that was my final offer - I've stuck with 2 XP, so that just needs to be confirmed. I've also made a suggestion to Nat that he should try to focus on players who look to have used their big shots and might have XP to spare. He thinks it'll take three more nights to leave the game, or two if he gets a particularly big offer.

I'm just asking this more as a game design curiosity than anything, did he say how much total exp he needs?

But yeah, I'm good with TWE
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I'm just asking this more as a game design curiosity than anything, did he say how much total exp he needs?
No, he kept that part close to his chest. If he's was pushing for 3 XP and reckoned it would take three more nights, I'd guess he needs somewhere in the range of nine to twelve more points. He also added that he can only get experience from sales, not the daily boosts.

Sorry to do this, Worthy - I've enjoyed playing with you, but if you can rescue players then we need you gone(gaga).

RAGE AGAINST: TheWorthyEdge

Merry Christmas.

I realise I'm about a week too soon for that joke, but it's almost 'Almost Christmas'.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Goes without saying, but if anyone's watching me or Worthy and sees that, get ready to bus. If there's any way to stall until D6 we'll go with the bomb, but if that's not going to happen then go Speed on me and don't let that bus slow down.
 

Hedin

Oops, All Scum!
Staff member
No, he kept that part close to his chest. If he's was pushing for 3 XP and reckoned it would take three more nights, I'd guess he needs somewhere in the range of nine to twelve more points. He also added that he can only get experience from sales, not the daily boosts.

Sorry to do this, Worthy - I've enjoyed playing with you, but if you can rescue players then we need you gone(gaga).

RAGE AGAINST: TheWorthyEdge

Merry Christmas.

I realise I'm about a week too soon for that joke, but it's almost 'Almost Christmas'.
Command Received
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I would probably make him earn a full 12, same as all three tiers for a player I guess
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
My can of energy actually does something - if I use it (I just need to give some kind of confirmation during a night phase so that it activates on N+1), posting will be allowed during the night phase for all players with a limit on the number of posts allowed. However, I can't use the item and a command on the same night.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Hedin's just added that I am allowed to use the drink and call in the kill on the same night - it's just the roleblock and (if it's available) arming the bomb that wouldn't be allowed.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
It’s totally number of exp points makes the items better lol

Up to you how you want to handle that one. Using it could give a positive impression of you then maybe we just don’t do this whole bomb thing. And you could obviously just say tonight wasn’t an option so tomorrow night was the first time you could
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
OK then, best not to use it straight away under the circumstances. I think your idea makes sense, Sorian - unless there's a dire need to roleblock someone tomorrow, then we can have nightposting on N6 and kick the roleblock option down the road. If I mention that I can't activate it until N5 and it won't take effect until N6, that might even buy me some time.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I wonder if Natiko truly has no idea about the exp mechanic to his items? I feel like that would make for better sales
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Running through the numbers in my head, I think there's a chance that the bomb strategy might not work if we all stay in play for the next few phases. Assuming there's a mis-hit every day and no kills get stopped at night, I think the flow might go like this:
  • D5: 13 in play
  • N5: 12 in play, strong kill purchased and used, night chat for N6 activated
  • D6: 11 in play
  • N6: 10 in play, bomb purchased, roleblock used
  • D7: 9 in play
  • N7: 8 in play, bomb armed
  • D8: 7 in play - MIS-HIT AND LOSE
As the bomb won't work if the game reaches mis-hit and lose, it'd be ineffective. It could be used if either Sorian or Wiz are taken out by D8, but that would make the bomb a risky strategy unless the last of us standing can run for home solo.

There is one possibility that might be in our favour, though - Natiko. If Nat bounces on N6 or N7, we're all still in play and no kills fail, then we'll reach parity on D8 and win. If Nat turns out to be an arsonist and takes Ty, Fran and a couple of townies with him, we might win on the spot, even if he takes me out as well, but that's a long shot.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Yup. Unless you think you're up to running to the end, that takes the bomb off of the table. For all intents and purposes, we're down to a roleblock.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
So now that’s it’s just us two I think I can drop this tidbit from my chat since I think it’ll at least give some good news with this bad news. Wizard was very likely going to be the lynch today. Aeleus was prepared to go in hard and I was able to position myself into a very strong position thanks to Wiz’s awesome bussing that there’s no way Wiz and I are teammates. From their perspective, you are actually very likely town too and they think you are going to be a lie detector that progressively gets better with more xp like Geno’s role.

idk if you want to feed into that since they are just one town voice but that’s where we are. We actually are positioned quite well with this I think. I’m not going to share anything else from the chat to avoid TMI
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Depending on if and when Natiko bails, D8 could be the end point. We may have to try a hail mary shot on Aeleus tomorrow night and hope they're in a lovers chat with nobody protecting them - that might get us a double kill, but it's a hit and hope strategy.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
So now that’s it’s just us two I think I can drop this tidbit from my chat since I think it’ll at least give some good news with this bad news. Wizard was very likely going to be the lynch today. Aeleus was prepared to go in hard and I was able to position myself into a very strong position thanks to Wiz’s awesome bussing that there’s no way Wiz and I are teammates. From their perspective, you are actually very likely town too and they think you are going to be a lie detector that progressively gets better with more xp like Geno’s role.

idk if you want to feed into that since they are just one town voice but that’s where we are. We actually are positioned quite well with this I think. I’m not going to share anything else from the chat to avoid TMI
OK, that's interesting. Aeleus is pretty well read, so if they can back us up, that's a plus. Not exactly sure how I can make a lie detector stronger - check more statements, perhaps - but it might be something to whip out in the next phase to confirm their thinking.

Certainly agree that I shouldn't know any more than is absolutely necessary, I don't want to slip without realising.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Mind you, if I use the night chat item - which I'll probably have to to prove my claim - I shouldn't be claiming actions tomorrow as well! One to bear in mind for D7 (!) then.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I planted a few seeds, maybe Ael did too, I forgot who said what but I think it was mostly my ideas. A better version where you don’t have the alignment stipulation you mentioned, a version where Hedin confirms true or false in thread (you can’t fake this obviously lol)
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Mm, from the room that's looking hard to play. Given how many people are clearing themselves, giving someone a green check at this point is more or less going to be stating the obvious - about the only time that I can do that would be if someone narrowly avoids getting a train on them, and then it'll just result in another player getting taken out of the PoE. Ael's caught on to Wiz's distancing posts regarding me as well, so I doubt they'd be so willing to accept another fake claim now.

I don't think people are going to have any reservations about giving XP to Nat now, but him leaving the game's only going to take us so far. If I'm honest, I'm feeling the walls close in now - there are so many verified claims going around that I don't think we've got enough mis-hit candidates left. I don't know if Chuggs looks as bad as he did before, but he'd either give me a small boost or make it look like my claim was stating the obvious - there'd be more chance of him going after me. Melon might be a target for looking like a fluff poster and Muffin's up in the air, but I'm not sure if we've got enough wiggle room to make it through another four pages.

Sorry if this sounds like doomposting, that's not my intention. Obviously I'd love it if we can turn things around somehow, but having to run solo through Krakoa was tough enough and that was just a mini - I'm not sure if I have it in me to do that again.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
@Hedin we are allowed to submit a no kill right? Not wanting to make use of that anytime soon but I want to know it’s allowed.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Totally on board with this bus if this gives you a shot at going the distance. I know it's a tough way of going to the endgame, but I think you're in a better position to pull it off than me - if Aeleus and Fran were still pocketed I might have had a sliver of a chance, but I don't think I've got any means to talk my way out of this one now.

If by any chance Natiko comes to you tonight, absolutely pay him off - it's probably the best use of our XP pot now.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Yeah that’s the plan, I have to hope my theory is right that exp = better ability and I can pick something that is somehow deadly.

The immediate concern is that nin would be the player who would have an overrride and if he starts tunneling me then idk what to do. Everyone else I can stall at least to the lylo/Milo situation I think
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Man, that's why I didn't want to publicly backclaim into hider because I knew it would be a double claim with melon, I had to guess which tier was theirs and I guessed wrong.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I think my best bet to make this happen is to play minimally and see if that draws any more votes for not trying to solve. Any cred you can get from leading a charge on me's a bonus, just as long as it doesn't look too obvious that you're driving a bus.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Zipped has not re-voted me even though I told him, so in theory this is 2v2v2, we need to curate this vote very specifically for things to work well. The world that has to be built here is Ty is your teammate and you are trying to save both him and yourself. I'm going to assume that melon isn't going to get more traction, if they do then the following plan can change but as it stands:

As we get closer to day end like maybe 10 hours before or something, you are going to need to vote for me. Ideally, you make an inconsistent read on me that sounds plausible but doesn't quite match up with what you've been saying previously (please please do not attack my claim, its the one thing that is wrong with my play and they seem to be ignoring it, feel free to attack reads, interactions with malus and wiz, whatever else, just not my claim). You are going to need to make it louder as we get closer to day end, don't just drop the vote and ghost. You don't need to act different from how you usually do because you aren't a loud player but you have to push the point and try to convince people. The game here hinges a bit on how good your acting is and also relies on me convincing more people to vote for you than you can get onto me. The best thing you can do is try to subtlety convince the Ty voters specifically that they should be voting me instead of Ty. That will sell it if we actually get through this vote the way we want.

Now I will say, if melon actually takes off, feel free to do this to them instead but I get the feeling you will still be an island on that vote in the morning and it's good you are parked there overnight because then you'll look more desperate when you start attacking me.

There are a billion things that can go wrong here, my claim is fumbled imo and I'm shocked no one is pointing it out. That will probably come back to bite me in the ass in a few days but whatever. nin maybe (probably?) has an override and if he decides to tunnel me then that;s just fucked and it's not looking good so far. I considered maybe we flip this script and you bus me and we orchestrate your win instead but I think we need a bit of a miracle here and a Natiko item is likely that miracle and I don't think you get another chance with him again so I think I have to go for this. Odds are low, town PRs hit both of their most important abilities but now we just have to hope that good old fashioned gaslighting and theater can at least pull the situation back.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
OK, I've put down a bussing vote using voting trends as the angle. It's not the strongest reasoning, but it's the sort of thing that I'd do at this point as town.

I think it might have done me some good to step away from the game yesterday, as Wiz getting vigged left me pretty rattled. I had trouble getting to sleep that night, I think the game was starting to get to my nerves a bit. However, the pace of the game's slowing down now, which is helpful. I think I was worried about having to drag a losing battle on for another couple of weeks and just delaying the inevitable, but if the next phase starts with ten players (nine if Nat goes), it might not be long before the game goes to 24 hour phases, which might be better for me. I'd be lying if I hadn't considered asking to resign politely if I was the last of us standing to keep the game from dragging on pointlessly - I wouldn't entertain the idea of self-voting and flouncing off, as that's not fair to anyone - but I'll see how things shake out. It may well be that pushing for you gets me the chop anyway, which I think would serve us better. To finish solo in a RM game requires a silver tongue, which I know I haven't got.

My main concern is how to handle a push for a claim, as it's been noticed that I'm the only one who's only claimed one action. Using the energy can tonight would be a demonstratable way of getting out of taking an action, although it'd just be kicking the can down the road. I could potentially use the roleblock shot and claim that I'd been holding on to it, going back to my earlier point about town roleblockers getting stronger when there's more chance of hitting scum. Aeleus wouldn't like that if they're expecting me to use another lie detector shot, but I think it'd be too late to use one of those now and be convincing about it - I'd immediately be hit with the 'why didn't you use that earlier' argument.

In terms of kills, I think that Fran and Zipped are the mandatory next choices, since they'll never be voted out. I'd be inclined to go with Fran first, since he's more focused and as things stand, it might look like Ty's trying to take out someone who's on his case.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
If, somehow, we both make it through this phase and one of us gets a point for voting, I think that'd give us enough experience to buy the vote bomb. It's a dicey option at this point, but if I can get it then it may be worth activating it while there's still an opportunity, just in case you can get through to D7 with one less player in the pool.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
It strikes me that if there's nobody in town worth roleblocking and we're both still in play, I could potentially roleblock you and sell anybody watching either of us a fakie. The risk there is that if Turmoil defends our night kill target or anyone else similarly interferes, we'll waste a NK by not blocking them. Anyway, food for thought.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
It strikes me that if there's nobody in town worth roleblocking and we're both still in play, I could potentially roleblock you and sell anybody watching either of us a fakie. The risk there is that if Turmoil defends our night kill target or anyone else similarly interferes, we'll waste a NK by not blocking them. Anyway, food for thought.
I just woke up so no heavy thoughts yet but Turm won’t be full on blocking any more kills I think. He should just have a bodyguard shot if anything
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I wonder if admitting I've only used the lie detector might swing Fran over to a vote for me? If he goes, others should follow and I could see Fran pulling for a hit on Ty tomorrow.

Fingers crossed your appeal to Nat works, by the way. I'm just hoping that he doesn't join the dots and call us out for the hell of it.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I like to think Nat and I have a good enough relationship that he'll give me professional courtesy, he will know I am scum if he gets me into his chat.

I appreciate that they are taking the bait I was hoping for. I think no matter what you claim here, they are going to punch holes in it which is exactly what we need. Just don't buckle, whatever you claim, just stick to it to the grave.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Alright, I've turned my actual roles into bullshit town roles. Not a great trick, but I think it'll keep the train on me running.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Had to think for a moment before I gave that excuse - if the 'lie detector' cost 2 XP and I paid the same to Nat, then I've never reached 6 XP in the game so far. I'd at least like to make the claim workable, just in case anyone smells a rat.

As a total aside, I think this is the first time I've had to take on serious pressure as scum. In Krakoa, I just came to the conclusion that I was done for from the off after Malus and Lux got eliminated in the first phases, so I just sat back and waited for it to happen. Except it didn't. This is the first time that I've really had to sell a lie hard, and it's odd to think that it's for the sake of a self-bus!
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Mafia is fun isn't it? lol

I very much did not expect to be the one to have to do this and maybe it all just blows up immediately anyway but I was expecting a nice breezy game to keep me busy for a week or two over the holidays.

You're doing really good though, I like your sell so far and town is definitely seeing what they want to see so far.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
I very much did not expect to be the one to have to do this and maybe it all just blows up immediately anyway but I was expecting a nice breezy game to keep me busy for a week or two over the holidays.
Yeah, I was more or less expecting the game to wrap up by D6, maybe with a D7 in speed mode. I think if the game had run at any other time of the year I wouldn't have minded the idea of it dragging on to D8, but I don't think I'd like to be playing all the way to Christmas! (Heck, it's my birthday at the end of the week, I wouldn't mind putting my feet up by then!)
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Ah crap, I've just given it away, haven't I? The flavour for the actions doesn't come until the roles are claimed, does it? Ah well, nothing like a good old fashioned scum slip to seal the deal. Once they cotton on, I wouldn't rule out a turbo.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Ah crap, I've just given it away, haven't I? The flavour for the actions doesn't come until the roles are claimed, does it? Ah well, nothing like a good old fashioned scum slip to seal the deal. Once they cotton on, I wouldn't rule out a turbo.
Nah, I don't think that's anything. Town knows their flavor names for their moves; they just don't know specific instructions about the move until they buy it.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Nah, I don't think that's anything. Town knows their flavor names for their moves; they just don't know specific instructions about the move until they buy it.
That's it, I knew it was something like that but I forgot to double check a flip before I posted.
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
Oh, that's going to get attention - typing 'role detector' instead of 'role blocker'! Have tried to patch it up as a typo (which, in all fairness, it was), but I think that'll feed in to the case.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I feel like my wild cards here are truly Ty and nin.

nin not coming back is a huge pain since he might have an override over there and who knows what he's thinking.

Ty is in solve mode which at least people are treating it as noise but I worry if this stuff gets used after he flips.

I'm lowkey kind of shocked that fran has brought up claims multiple times now and him or Turm haven't pinned me about it yet. I guess it would probably be more dangerous for me if melon ever flipped.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Well I think we get this the way we want it at least for today. So I’ll see what I can do, I can at least make it a fight barring some dumb shit like another random investigation or something. You did good, thanks for the good last day Alex
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
You too, Sorian - it's not the end of game that we had in mind, but if your planning pays off, there's a small chance, better than I'd have had alone. I'll be cheering you on from the spec thread!
 

Alexem

Yeah, I'm town
(I did consider after posting that they might think I'm armed, but by now I think it's more likely they'll park at six if they don't hammer. If they do, let's just say the one who hits me knows I'm a dud...)
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
I’ll be so bummed out if I didn’t court Nat well enough. He’s a curious man, I have to hope me saying I had a theory would have piqued his interest
 
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