Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Aren't cults bastard to begin with?
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bastard_Mod
It's an alignment change
Spectator Thread Buffy and CW Spectator Thread
- Thread starter RetroMG
- Start date
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Bastard_Mod
It's an alignment change
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
There is a difference between including a Cult and lying imo. The game was advertised as having unusual mechanics which fits nicely at 9 on The Crab Scale. A Bastard game with lying mods is at 11.
9: This is a closed game with some non-traditional roles and non-traditional mechanics that very fundamentally change it from how mafia would normally be expected to work and require very different approaches to play. LaunchpadMcQ's season 3 Danganronpa game and traube's season 3 Cthulhu game are examples of this.
10: This is a total madness game where every player has a role, these roles are not necessarily traditional and there are strong non-standard mechanics.
11: This is a full bastard game. You are all in the Matrix. This scale is merely an attempt by your deeper subconscious to expand your epistemological uncertainty to a ground where you can make conclusions on existentialism and the state of your reality. The moderators are lying to you. Your win condition is meaningless and probably a lie. What does it even mean to "win" in life? Do we have a purpose? Trust nobody. Eat the red pill.
nin1000
Chilean German Madman
But i did that with post #896
Since it has been asked by several people and It is known that the cult is in play i want to make it clear.
Town win condition should read like this:
You win when all threats to town are eliminated.
Reading my name constantly reminds me why I could never get into Buffy; seeing a man with my name acting like I have in the past
Can we request reviews of our play during a game? Just for feedback
Android Sophia
Miss Congeniality
Cult is borderline, in regards to it being bastard. That being said, it's significantly less bastardy if it's a known setup.
CrimsonFist
Neutral Vanilla
It feels like standardised win conditions are constantly agreed upon as a thing we should be doing, and yet we still have issues with.
Town should always be "Remove all threats to town."
Town should always be "Remove all threats to town."
How is it we are even friends??
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I went day by day on your play. Like i said you were entertaining.
Scum: Godfather, GamingNewsGuy, Zubz exmachina,
Cult: Apollo (leader) Flux N1, zipped N4, Oliver N5
CoolestSpot in review. Late sub into the game so a few posts about catching up. Nothing sinister jumping out, just keeping everyone in the loop.
Day 2.
First reads: Wrong straight away with exmachina. Right with Kaz but he claimed simultaneously so... read Bronx as funny and charming (this is correct) but he also died.
Once Bronx dies you vote GNG (scum) and get into it with Flux. I guess you are just trying to establish yourself here. During the game I did think you were a likely bus since you have played aggressively in other games and once Kaz flipped Bronx there wasn't really another target. You make a great read on exmachina, clearly aware of the bussing situation.
Day 3.
With the Nintendo reveal you start a whole bunch of speculation but that is something I am inclined to do. I'm sure some people got bad vibes and you are adding to an already confusing situation with no evidence. That is an angle to paint you as deflecting scum. You bait a PR which may be advantageous in not drawing the cult to you. Arguing with SaucyKaz even though his claim is rock solid (shown night and day use) then you sheep his vote. The scum case is building against you.. then a few shitposts probably don't help.
I don't know why you would claim the same role as Kaz, Maybe you want it to be taken as two JOATs which is possible but at this point to me it seems more like you are trying to bait the night kill, which in this game is bad for town since you want scum hitting cult players not simply hitting vanillas.
After Phantom dies you again are after SaucyKaz even though it should be clear he is town. Coming after Kaz was not good, arguments had been made about why Kaz is definitely Town from a game balance perspective. Kaz points out your previous scum read on Zubz. But you vote almost out of nowhere for Oliver. IDK why you did this. You had made a case for Zubz, a confirmed townie had backed you up. Sometimes you have to just follow through. And then Kaz flipped Zubz during the night and he came up scum which now makes you look very bad.
Day 4
You come out hard against Tearable. Not necessarily bad and you start to build a case. But now people are either scum reading you or thinking you are cult.
Day end is a train wreck. Tearable comes out with his cop claim and red checks Godfather. At that point it should be either one of them lynched but for some reason you start to antagonize people, switch votes and generally act up. Town were dumb for killing you but you have to take some of the blame. It was a terrible lynch all round and while entertaining your break down was one of the worst pieces of mafia I have ever seen.
I'm not going to tell you how to play because people have different styles and work things out in different ways but please remember that as a town player mafia is a team game and working towards a common goal. The way you played in the lead up to your death was contrary to that effort and put your team mates in a bad position. Especially in this scenario where there were so many anti-town players trying to take advantage of town being dumb. I myself am guilty of over-reading and acting sporadically but you need to be more consistent. Remember that the goal of mafia, on whatever side, is to build trust and credibility. You failed to do that.
So basically you spectacularly imploded after having a decent start. Your skepticism of Kaz despite his PR claim was the start of your downfall.
Cult: Apollo (leader) Flux N1, zipped N4, Oliver N5
CoolestSpot in review. Late sub into the game so a few posts about catching up. Nothing sinister jumping out, just keeping everyone in the loop.
Day 2.
First reads: Wrong straight away with exmachina. Right with Kaz but he claimed simultaneously so... read Bronx as funny and charming (this is correct) but he also died.
Once Bronx dies you vote GNG (scum) and get into it with Flux. I guess you are just trying to establish yourself here. During the game I did think you were a likely bus since you have played aggressively in other games and once Kaz flipped Bronx there wasn't really another target. You make a great read on exmachina, clearly aware of the bussing situation.
Day 3.
With the Nintendo reveal you start a whole bunch of speculation but that is something I am inclined to do. I'm sure some people got bad vibes and you are adding to an already confusing situation with no evidence. That is an angle to paint you as deflecting scum. You bait a PR which may be advantageous in not drawing the cult to you. Arguing with SaucyKaz even though his claim is rock solid (shown night and day use) then you sheep his vote. The scum case is building against you.. then a few shitposts probably don't help.
I don't know why you would claim the same role as Kaz, Maybe you want it to be taken as two JOATs which is possible but at this point to me it seems more like you are trying to bait the night kill, which in this game is bad for town since you want scum hitting cult players not simply hitting vanillas.
After Phantom dies you again are after SaucyKaz even though it should be clear he is town. Coming after Kaz was not good, arguments had been made about why Kaz is definitely Town from a game balance perspective. Kaz points out your previous scum read on Zubz. But you vote almost out of nowhere for Oliver. IDK why you did this. You had made a case for Zubz, a confirmed townie had backed you up. Sometimes you have to just follow through. And then Kaz flipped Zubz during the night and he came up scum which now makes you look very bad.
Day 4
You come out hard against Tearable. Not necessarily bad and you start to build a case. But now people are either scum reading you or thinking you are cult.
Day end is a train wreck. Tearable comes out with his cop claim and red checks Godfather. At that point it should be either one of them lynched but for some reason you start to antagonize people, switch votes and generally act up. Town were dumb for killing you but you have to take some of the blame. It was a terrible lynch all round and while entertaining your break down was one of the worst pieces of mafia I have ever seen.
I'm not going to tell you how to play because people have different styles and work things out in different ways but please remember that as a town player mafia is a team game and working towards a common goal. The way you played in the lead up to your death was contrary to that effort and put your team mates in a bad position. Especially in this scenario where there were so many anti-town players trying to take advantage of town being dumb. I myself am guilty of over-reading and acting sporadically but you need to be more consistent. Remember that the goal of mafia, on whatever side, is to build trust and credibility. You failed to do that.
So basically you spectacularly imploded after having a decent start. Your skepticism of Kaz despite his PR claim was the start of your downfall.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Ok faircure is great.
The Fran kill was the right one imo. No point getting cute. It is the kill most of town would have expected. He has been more of a leader and is stubborn in his arguments so could flip on a scum player in an instant and not give it up.
Mafia doing the expected thing might make this town carry on with what they were doing.
The Fran kill was the right one imo. No point getting cute. It is the kill most of town would have expected. He has been more of a leader and is stubborn in his arguments so could flip on a scum player in an instant and not give it up.
Mafia doing the expected thing might make this town carry on with what they were doing.
FYI, a lot of communities ban showing pictures of their personal notes. Anything can be faked obviously but usually seeing what someone's hand written notes are of can tell you exactly their alignment since it tells you what they are prioritizing looking at.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Is that a ban on notes in particular or part of a blanket ban on any RL images?
RL images. The cutsie vote count highlighting thing that takes all of two seconds that everyone does is fine as is alluding to notes that may or may not exist.
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
I think that falls in the category of "outside communication" which is generally a no-no?
Everything went to plan when needed then, it seems. I wish I had thought out more with cult in play, but thanks for this. I'll be sure to look back on it in future. I think I was focusing a lot on gut feeling, missing a lot of info since I skimmed while subbing, which made me seems super iffy. Thanks again for this.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
No, it's not communication with anyone, and available for everyone in the thread to read.
It's more related to posting your role PM or photographic evidence of it.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Just post the notes directly into the thread. Nobody's stopping you :p
Someone made an analysis once that took me ten minutes to read.
I do agree it sounds a little odd, but I can understand it more like a general ban on posting any IRL images.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
What faircure posted is probably not the best example in how mild it is. I think it's better to imagine if someone were to post pages and pages of notes they had gathered over the days that has clearly been filled over time in the notebook.
Obviously with text alone anything goes unless role pm.
faircure is showing decent thinking so far. That can maybe be what town needs.
Obviously with text alone anything goes unless role pm.
faircure is showing decent thinking so far. That can maybe be what town needs.
I like her already. Keep the newbies coming.
Splinter
Lord of Volcano Island
Might be remembering wrong, but haven't most of the people who posted notes in this community been scum?
What a silly rule. Scum spend all game trying to act like town, and yet they can't write up a couple pages of townie-looking notes?
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
I haven't seen that rule anywhere so I'm only speculating its purpose, but the text itself isn't the issue IMO, but the extra implications of the RL nature. Worn paper, ink trails, crossed over writing, etc. These are all clues that can assist when you extrapolate.
I'd love to read an example though. Couldn't find the rule from skimming a couple of rulebooks.
I'd love to read an example though. Couldn't find the rule from skimming a couple of rulebooks.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
I can only remember very few examples. The only one I can pinpoint to a game was a town in Love Boat 1, but I can't quite remember who.
Franconp
Frank
Hi everyone!
Actually I was going after Blarg, Swamped or Include today.
Turmoil sold me the townie aligment when he said that town should lynch him to prove GoG. It's so stupid that it should be town. I thought that GoG should be town when everyone voted her after Splinter claim (btw, what the hell you tried to pull there?).
Blarg started ok but now he isn't even playing, this is scum Blarg without doubt. I still was after Swamped after she tried to get me roleclaim after my discussion with Sorian and Include because she even making sense now (and now voting herself? WTF?). Also all of them weren't in most of the wagons.
Actually I was going after Blarg, Swamped or Include today.
Turmoil sold me the townie aligment when he said that town should lynch him to prove GoG. It's so stupid that it should be town. I thought that GoG should be town when everyone voted her after Splinter claim (btw, what the hell you tried to pull there?).
Blarg started ok but now he isn't even playing, this is scum Blarg without doubt. I still was after Swamped after she tried to get me roleclaim after my discussion with Sorian and Include because she even making sense now (and now voting herself? WTF?). Also all of them weren't in most of the wagons.
I looked over a bit of the game and Brazil is scum? I wouldn't have though that. Mostly because he didn't voted D3.
Franconp
Frank
Include doesn't realize that mislynches can happen. That's why town has 4 or 5 times more players than scum. Town lynching town is normal and could be good if it leads to catch scum.
Also she doesn't realize this is a team game, she is doing her own think, writing novels about players but barely exchanging opinions now. Also she is staying out of the lynchs which looks really scummy.
She needs to talk to her mentor ASAP because she is misunderstanding a lot of what basic Mafia is.
Also she doesn't realize this is a team game, she is doing her own think, writing novels about players but barely exchanging opinions now. Also she is staying out of the lynchs which looks really scummy.
She needs to talk to her mentor ASAP because she is misunderstanding a lot of what basic Mafia is.
I posted in their thread that I'm familiar with her feelings right now. I felt like such an outsider with so little knowledge of the forum game and the community meta and behaviors and I felt like such an outsider, doing my thing but also trying to mimic others. Still feel that sometimes. Probably why I'm so stubborn.
Splinter
Lord of Volcano Island
I was going to be unanimously lynched which would have been a wasted day, wanted to make it at least slightly interesting.
Didn't learn much, but it at least convinced me GoG is town (same as it did for you) so not completely wasted.
Wasn't expecting a counter claim of course... Oopsie.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Iirc it was investigation of said notes that got him lynched? I don't remember the exact arguments for why it was scummy, but they were written very much from scum pov iirc.
cabot
Why.
Yeah and I showed my notes and it was a wonderful penis.
We all know who won that game really.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Melon posted notes once and wasn’t scum. She was then scumread for it which did not go over well considering the thread requested she post them in the first place lol
I have a friend who used to doodle during class and I, sitting next to him, noticed he was just drawing dicks over and over. Finally I asked him about his doodles and he said, "Oh, yeah, I just love rockets!" I told him they were dicks. He protested vehemently for weeks and then finally he confessed that he couldn't doodle anymore because he realized they were dicks and his notes were ruined forever.
Draw your dicks with abandon, friends. Draw with abandon.
Draw your dicks with abandon, friends. Draw with abandon.
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
Nah, last-minute D1 day-kills never work out.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I see this shaking out as a Blarg lynch.
The early suspicion coupled with a few people throwing accusations around will get him. He is notoriously hard to read and usually insightful if he is town. As long as GoG makes her claim in the right way, and I think at this stage she needs to claim, the whole thing flips on Blarg.
The early suspicion coupled with a few people throwing accusations around will get him. He is notoriously hard to read and usually insightful if he is town. As long as GoG makes her claim in the right way, and I think at this stage she needs to claim, the whole thing flips on Blarg.
Then the world of scum partners for Blarg gets very small and then picking out partners for them is a doable task as well. Maybe confirmation bias but Brazil seems like he is out on an island with his Blarg read.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
I don't think gog's claim is going to automatically save her when so many wanna flip her.
I do agree we can see a Blarg lynch, but suspicion hasn't quite materialized yet. Homeland and melon are clearly suspicious though.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Are you mod killing GoG for bringing up outside info?
No way confirmation checks like that are a part of mafia. Really it is Gorlak's fault but bringing up a PM in discord is communication outside the thread.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Wait that is clearly something. You don't know what Gorlak's put in that DM or why he wrote it.
Gorlak reads the game and sees the GoG or Turmoil clashing, he then sets up a way to confirm 100% GoG to Turmoil by sending him a message on discord. If not the actual definition of communication outside the thread it is going against the spirit of the rules.
Gorlak reads the game and sees the GoG or Turmoil clashing, he then sets up a way to confirm 100% GoG to Turmoil by sending him a message on discord. If not the actual definition of communication outside the thread it is going against the spirit of the rules.
cabot
Why.
You can communicate outside of the thread, you just cant communicate about the game outside of the thread.
I don't believe Gorlak is as malicious in intent as your case describes, but he can confirm that himself.
No rules were broken by Gorlak sending Turmoil a Discord PM, and he stated the PM was made on 20th January, 11 days before his gossip chat with GoG.
First read the thread completely, than post here.
Include is Cordy ... hahahaha
---
Blarg is Spike. He has to be. If he is - that's the most awesome gif to use towards Buffy
And holy shit - he still has that pm <3
That thunderdome was what got me into this community, love you Blarg.
(yeah that was something I probably shouldn't have written, but at that point I never played a game, wasn't a part of cthulhu and didn't know any better)
Hoooray for Buffy!
Re: GoG evidence - outside thread communication
When I came up with how she could convince someone of my presence in the chat, I didn't think that it would break any rules.
However
What's the general opinion? I didn't want to be unfair or unsporting.
When I came up with how she could convince someone of my presence in the chat, I didn't think that it would break any rules.
However
The info I gave is covered by this rule, isn't it? Gray area...
What's the general opinion? I didn't want to be unfair or unsporting.
cabot
Why.
Yeah in future this stuff should be stamped out.
The rule there was made more in light of posting quotes from other mafia games. It was never really considered in this context.
Depends also on the convo you guys had off course. I mean if you casually brought it up in convo and GOG used that to answer the questions from people to confirm you guys talked about, I can understand GOG used it because she has nothing else. If you brought it up just for verification, I would be dissapointed.
Franconp
Frank
It's a town who killed an unconstested tracked claim because he couldn't make sense with his claim. He couldn't explain why he didn't target LP N3. Also he didn't have a good timming voting Flush.
Franconp
Frank
It wasn't like that, more like this:
-He said that he though that LP was going to die anyway.
-I asked why he though that when he was a hider and hard to hit.
-He said that he though that he couldn't follow him.
-He later said that he though that he would be roleblocked and killed.
-I asked why he could be roleblocked but not tracked.
-He didn't have an answer.
If his first answer was "I asked a mod an hypothetical question and they said that he can't be tracked" it was ok. But he kept backtracking and changing his answers.
-He said that he though that LP was going to die anyway.
-I asked why he though that when he was a hider and hard to hit.
-He said that he though that he couldn't follow him.
-He later said that he though that he would be roleblocked and killed.
-I asked why he could be roleblocked but not tracked.
-He didn't have an answer.
If his first answer was "I asked a mod an hypothetical question and they said that he can't be tracked" it was ok. But he kept backtracking and changing his answers.
cabot
Why.
Fair enough, but claims can be bungled, town or scum.
Why was he 4-shot (which isn't a normal x-shot), What benefit as scum was there to claim when he did, What benefit as scum was there to claim the information he claimed? How was his play before claiming?
I don't think any of these questions led me to answers that he was scum.
His votes were probably the weak point outside aspects of the claim, it wasn't amazing.
Why was he 4-shot (which isn't a normal x-shot), What benefit as scum was there to claim when he did, What benefit as scum was there to claim the information he claimed? How was his play before claiming?
I don't think any of these questions led me to answers that he was scum.
His votes were probably the weak point outside aspects of the claim, it wasn't amazing.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
No
You're using evidence to prove something took place that's well outside the boundaries of the game.
Beyond being outside the game it is direct confirmation that your conversation took place which isn't part of any of your roles.
cabot
Why.
Oh that was the rule I was looking for.
Yeah, that one is more clear. Should be avoided.
This happened before though, in the invitational, CCS used a reference from Discord PMs which only I would understand to verify he and monkey were chatting while jailed.
One to note for the review thread.
Yeah, that one is more clear. Should be avoided.
This happened before though, in the invitational, CCS used a reference from Discord PMs which only I would understand to verify he and monkey were chatting while jailed.
One to note for the review thread.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
I don't see how it could be anything but a breech of the rules.
Technically there's nothing in the rules saying you can't go to outer Mafia and check who has gained a bunch of likes on their profile (hint, Mafias did in their thread), but it's clearly wrong.
It's outside information used to prove something.
Technically there's nothing in the rules saying you can't go to outer Mafia and check who has gained a bunch of likes on their profile (hint, Mafias did in their thread), but it's clearly wrong.
It's outside information used to prove something.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
We need rules that are more clear on this point. The rules can never quite cover everything in detail.
I thought about that when we had the encryption issue. It's something that's also clearly going against the spirit of the rules.
Ty4on
The 4 is silent
Relax. You didn't know it was wrong. I think pretty much everyone still alive could've done the same if they came up with the same idea given their reaction.
Splinter
Lord of Volcano Island
Scum killed Gorlak during the night, so in a vacuum there would be no way for GoG to verify her claim, so that's how the situation should have played out.
So yeah, it's cheating. I don't think it was done maliciously, just something to be clarified for the future.
(Technically you could still fake claim something like that. For example GoG and Gorlak speak outside the game in a totally unrelated conversation, and then GoG uses information from that conversation to back up a fake gossip claim in game. Whatever the rules currently say, I think we generally agree not to play at that kind of level...)
((...speaking of which, I did briefly consider running a game that isn't limited to its thread, or that doesn't have a "main thread" at all...
I don't think people would like it.))
So yeah, it's cheating. I don't think it was done maliciously, just something to be clarified for the future.
(Technically you could still fake claim something like that. For example GoG and Gorlak speak outside the game in a totally unrelated conversation, and then GoG uses information from that conversation to back up a fake gossip claim in game. Whatever the rules currently say, I think we generally agree not to play at that kind of level...)
((...speaking of which, I did briefly consider running a game that isn't limited to its thread, or that doesn't have a "main thread" at all...
I don't think people would like it.))
That rule is actually about stalking/tracking people's activity, although I guess the way it's worded you could use it.
I always interpreted rule #5 to prevent activity discussion (someone posting elsewhere or giving rl reasons that are not to be questioned)
But the main point stands, it was against the spirit of the game.