Automata basic design and roster

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
After HvV3 I'm less sure about the 'don't talk about the cult in the main thread' rule, a similar role seemed to make the cult of kosmos very fustrated. I also want to see if there's a way to avoid the 'oops all factions' stuff which happened at end game.
LOL we had the don't talk about illuminati chat rule in HvV2 and honestly it was fine. Sure it was frustrating when we couldn't explain ourselves when Apop accused us of it, but part of the idea I guess by Geno was to make the chat seem more ominous, which is kind of the idea with the fake cult.

Also the reason we do not want them talking about cult chat is because we want the whole become as gods thing to be a secret. Having it suddenly appear in thread and then the four+ other members also say it would really make things tense lol.

I was kind of wondering how to handle the flips actually. Since all the cult information will be in cult chat I'm tempted to say that none of the cult members flip as cult except for little robot cult leader. We'll have to plan carefully how to write the cult leader's PM so we don't reveal too much info. I'm leaning towards...

Flavor

You are Little robot cult leader and you are a cult leader! \o/

You are aligned with town flavor!

During the night you can use the command hand out pamphlet: player. If the player is recruitable they will join you in your cult. \o/

You can also vote.

You win when all threats to town are defeated.

Cult thread:
Main thread:

Have fun spreading the word! \o/ "

I'm debating if we want to scrub his alignment tho lol town won't be as worried if he flips town, but maybe he should.

Most of the cult info will be in the cult thread same with the recruited members lol so again don't see a reason to reveal if they are cult or not. I was wondering if we could keep it that all cult info except the leader's is scrubbed UNTIL/If they do Become as Gods. If they do then from that point on they will flip as town but it will also mention they were a member?
Kaine still is a 1-shot ninja despite both teams now having access to one.
LOL I'll go fix that. We need to figure out her powers.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Actually kind of wonder if the condition they need 4 members might be too much for become as gods. There are only 6 recruitable so if the cult leader and some members get killed (like say Kaine) then we won't have enough for become as Gods. would 3 be better?
 
Actually kind of wonder if the condition they need 4 members might be too much for become as gods. There are only 6 recruitable so if the cult leader and some members get killed (like say Kaine) then we won't have enough for become as Gods. would 3 be better?
Perhaps they can do become as gods when there are 3 alive players other than the cult leader in the chat. (also I assume that the recruit command is only passed down once, is that correct?)

In terms of how the cult functions I believe we had previously considered that:
Cult members would show their normal PM but have highlighted text saying something like PlayerX had been recruited... (not sure how people would realize that there was a cult otherwise)
The cult leaders flip would reveal they were town in order to make it less likely that town isn't screwed too much chasing a non existant faction.

Currently I'm thinking if you use a 'don't talk about cult' rule that it might be a good idea to go with a tiered system.
Before a member of the cult is eliminated: Do not talk about the cult at all, doing otherwise will get you modkilled.
After a member of the cult is revealed: You can now talk about the cult, but may not reveal you are a member or share any info gained from the cult chat.
After 'BECOME AS GODS': You can now talk about everything.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Perhaps they can do become as gods when there are 3 alive players other than the cult leader in the chat. (also I assume that the recruit command is only passed down once, is that correct?)
3 sounds like a perfect number as it'd be pretty doable as long as the cult leader picks the right targets and they don't get killed too early.

I hadn't thought about the recruit command only being passed down once, I think originally I was planning on having it be that as long as one member besides the cult leader was alive, the power would be passed down if the leader died... but we could make it happen only once as basically a back up.

Option 2 is they loose the ability all together when they use become as Gods or if the number of recruitable people drops below a specific number (aka Become as Gods no longer being possible)

Also if the cult is unable to ever pull of become as goods then I guess we just reveal to them in chat they just a neighbor chat or should we keep them wondering what become as Gods is?
In terms of how the cult functions I believe we had previously considered that:
Cult members would show their normal PM but have highlighted text saying something like PlayerX had been recruited... (not sure how people would realize that there was a cult otherwise)
The cult leaders flip would reveal they were town in order to make it less likely that town isn't screwed too much chasing a non existant faction.
Yeah i can agree with those. The idea of the cult is to flavor and have it function like a cult, but it's really just a neighbor chat so having town be able to find out who is a member (when they flip) and specifically that the leader was town will help town realize it was just something to throw off hunting and then focus back on the scum teams.
Currently I'm thinking if you use a 'don't talk about cult' rule that it might be a good idea to go with a tiered system.
Before a member of the cult is eliminated: Do not talk about the cult at all, doing otherwise will get you modkilled.
After a member of the cult is revealed: You can now talk about the cult, but may not reveal you are a member or share any info gained from the cult chat.
After 'BECOME AS GODS': You can now talk about everything.
I like this tier reveal a lot and it makes perfect sense. Since we want to keep things quiet until/unless become as Gods happens so it scares town at first lol I was sort of thinking having them be able to talk about everything post Gods would be okay.

What do @Verelios and @OceanicAir think?
 
Option 2 is they loose the ability all together when they use become as Gods or if the number of recruitable people drops below a specific number (aka Become as Gods no longer being possible)

Also if the cult is unable to ever pull of become as goods then I guess we just reveal to them in chat they just a neighbor chat or should we keep them wondering what become as Gods is?
Option 2 sounds good, latter bit is a good point, I'll need to think about it.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Option 2 sounds good, latter bit is a good point, I'll need to think about it.
okay then o7 Let me know what you think when you decide c:

It makes sense anyways for them to lose it when it's no longer needed plus it prevents the cult from establishing a massive town core lol by recruiting all its members and scum hunting (minus Kaine sabotaging of course). Limiting it's size via taking away the recruit helps contain the chat with the other way is the fact that members may not fully trust their leader until they are revealed to be town lol.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
It's okay Vere :D Everyone has been busy or playing mafia games. I just would like to have one of my games get reviewed in a short time frame >> but guess that'll happen with our secret project ;) or one of my secret projects ;)
 

Verelios

Were-elios
okay then o7 Let me know what you think when you decide c:

It makes sense anyways for them to lose it when it's no longer needed plus it prevents the cult from establishing a massive town core lol by recruiting all its members and scum hunting (minus Kaine sabotaging of course). Limiting it's size via taking away the recruit helps contain the chat with the other way is the fact that members may not fully trust their leader until they are revealed to be town lol.
I would only disagree with taking away recruit because the sample size of recruitables is already really small at like 6, and if we need a leader and 3 others (I agree that 3 seems perfect) to activate BAGs then the odds are against them. On the off chance leader gets taken out D2 or 3 and there are only two or three other people in the cult, it leaves us a bit lacking.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
I think the tiered information drip is a really good idea. It gives scum some well deserved cover while also not overly confusing endgame.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I would only disagree with taking away recruit because the sample size of recruitables is already really small at like 6, and if we need a leader and 3 others (I agree that 3 seems perfect) to activate BAGs then the odds are against them. On the off chance leader gets taken out D2 or 3 and there are only two or three other people in the cult, it leaves us a bit lacking.
good point. I still think they should lose it if they use become as gods but we could let them keep it till/if that happens.

I mean there's always a chance lol the leader gets killed before he recruits anyone >>;
 

Verelios

Were-elios
good point. I still think they should lose it if they use become as gods but we could let them keep it till/if that happens.

I mean there's always a chance lol the leader gets killed before he recruits anyone >>;
Yeah, I think until they use it is a fair trade-off.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Also what else do we still need to figure out?

We got fake claims figured out... so I think finish up scum powers to make sure they each have a chance is what we need to work on next lol.

Also probably should discuss Sleeping beauty more. Caim and Angelus is 100% the easiest non town faction to figure out lol. they have given us the least trouble which is amusing considering.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Also what else do we still need to figure out?

We got fake claims figured out... so I think finish up scum powers to make sure they each have a chance is what we need to work on next lol.

Also probably should discuss Sleeping beauty more. Caim and Angelus is 100% the easiest non town faction to figure out lol. they have given us the least trouble which is amusing considering.
What do you want to discuss with Sleeping Beauty? Question stipulations?
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
What do you want to discuss with Sleeping Beauty? Question stipulations?
I'm not really sure lol. Mostly was wanting to make sure everyone was okay with her and felt her wincon/requirements were good and winnable lol.

I think we were a good position on her but wanted to be sure.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
I'm not really sure lol. Mostly was wanting to make sure everyone was okay with her and felt her wincon/requirements were good and winnable lol.

I think we were a good position on her but wanted to be sure.
Oh, lol. Okay, I'll wait for the rest to chime in.
 
I think the agenda is
A) Finish up scum powers
B) Tweak design in relation to new powers to make game balanced
C)Me and OA take a final look through the design to see if anything is off, then we can approve the game's design
D) You two have the fun job of making role PMs which we the reviewers will then scrutinize.
E) Game approved \o/

I think the only way to test to see whether sleeping beauty is fair is via test questions like I did earlier.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
out sounds good then >:D I admittedly can't think of a good SB question so I'll let you guys try that out.

---

Scum powers currently:

Nier/Weiss and Kaine - Kill on odd nights so have advantage over Bro team
Adam and Eve - Kill on Even nights.

Both teams also have a one shot ninja kill to counter informative town powers.

OLD WORLD Team - Out to bring back their old world.
Nier/Weiss - x shot jailer so can RB/protect a target including Kaine (don't think jailers can self target right?) counter to scum team but is countered by Eve. Can work as a cover for Nier if he claims tho with two docs in the game that may not work out well.

Kaine Machine- ??? Right now only thing going for her is she can be recruited by the cult because she's a machine (cult can only recruit characters with Machine in the name and aside from the leader, all of them and Kaine machine are vanilla so her flavor role cover is Vanilla? Seems stupid to make her vanilla tho unless it'd help balance out the teams. Originally we made her a ninja to help her not be found by investigatives but eh. Sooooo What power would be good for her balance wise?

NEW WORLD Team - Out to make a new world.
Adam - Android doctor. Infinite shot but can only protect an android successfully once. This is to not make their protection permanent while giving him a good cover since town only has a machine doctor.

Eve - X shot strongman. Counter to Nier's Jail, Adam's android doctoring (really ballsy gambit lol killing someone his bro protects for brownie points), and Devola/Popola machine doctoring, plus other powers.

---

Basically all we need to figure out power wise is what power would work for Kaine machine so Old World team has a chance against New World Team. New World goes second so they need the extra shit and the doctor and strongman are perfect for that, but we don't want to fuck over Old world team too.

There's also the SK to consider, but that's why both scum teams have a form of protection so really shouldn't have to worry about that now.

So really it again comes back to Kaine. She's a fighter so naturally she'd be good for a killing role (hence why she was a ninja originally) one easy idea would be to make her a scum vig so she has an extra kill once in the game for her team (not night 1?) Tho she might work for some informative roles.

Tracker might be a good idea??? but with all the powers in the game it might not be the useful. So yeah guys give me your input here.

Also we were worried about Old world not having a counter to Adam's doctoring, buttttt Adam can only protect each brother once successfully and if Nier jails him then they can kill Eve at least because Adam will be RB'd.
 
out sounds good then >:D I admittedly can't think of a good SB question so I'll let you guys try that out.
If you can't think of any good questions then you're exactly the kind of player I want to see make some, don't assume to role will go to someone who likes stupid trivia like me :P

Tracker might be a good idea??? but with all the powers in the game it might not be the useful. So yeah guys give me your input here.
A tracker would definitely be a double edged sword, would make them the only evil team able to mechanically identify other baddies but could also lead them to being counter claimed by the tracker/cult if they realize they're all vanilla if the player claims as such. It could work.

Here's a kind of weird claim I've thought of, cult hijacker
-Knows that there is a cult in the game
-Knows that they can be recruited by said cult but will not change alignment if recruited.
-If the cult leader dies and they are in the cult they always inherit the recruit ability, rather than it being decided by RNG.

Regardless of Kaine Machine's role I think the post restriction for cult shouldn't apply to the mafia chat, let those scum scheme. You could either do it secretly (this game is bastard after all) or by making the restriction only apply to the game thread, ala the discreet mechanic used in Transistor and then by a player in Corrida, though that would mean that if Pod 042 used their gossip and it was randomized it could lead to a gossip chat with them and a cult member where all could be revealed.

Finally I want to ensure that when you give evil their fake flavour that you make sure that each flavour has its corresponding species attached.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
If you can't think of any good questions then you're exactly the kind of player I want to see make some, don't assume to role will go to someone who likes stupid trivia like me :P
Hey! My masters was basically a degree based on random trivia (not really but sometimes it feels like it lol) so I'm like you. I'll just think of some sample questions when I'm not tired :P

Right now the only question i can think of is "what is my first name" LOL Orrrrrr "What player am I?" XD
Here's a kind of weird claim I've thought of, cult hijacker
-Knows that there is a cult in the game
-Knows that they can be recruited by said cult but will not change alignment if recruited.
-If the cult leader dies and they are in the cult they always inherit the recruit ability, rather than it being decided by RNG.

Regardless of Kaine Machine's role I think the post restriction for cult shouldn't apply to the mafia chat, let those scum scheme. You could either do it secretly (this game is bastard after all) or by making the restriction only apply to the game thread, ala the discreet mechanic used in Transistor and then by a player in Corrida, though that would mean that if Pod 042 used their gossip and it was randomized it could lead to a gossip chat with them and a cult member where all could be revealed.
:o !!! This role sound amazing and I 100% support the idea.

The very idea with the cult is that it's basically a fake cult that is really a neighbor chat and is a way for the vanillas in the game to game solve which gives town a huge advantage especially if they can fuck with scum on the right night by doing Become of Gods. Them being a fake cult is to make town suspicious of them and even each other if they don't trust the leader.

Having Kaine machine be a hijacker that will inherit the position if she's recruited into the cult is a great idea as basically she can really hinder cult's plans and keep it from being an advantage for town.

Her being a highjacker also sounds awesome since she's a machine so maybe her machine body has some hacking capabilities to is allowing her to do this LOL.

Also of course I'd say that naturally like every other member of the cult she doesn't know what Become as Gods actually does. Since the cult leader won't even know it makes no sense for her to know and it'd be giving too much info. Besides even if she does know she'd get suspicion if she never uses it even after they get enough members (unless she purposely fucks up picking recruitable targets XD)

However I'd point out that the cult leader is supposed to be the oldest living cult member (aka based on who was recruited first) but if we go with the cult hijacker we can remove this piece of info and claim it's randomized to a random cult member and we can RNG it for real if Kaine isn't recruited.
Finally I want to ensure that when you give evil their fake flavour that you make sure that each flavour has its corresponding species attached.
That's the plan :D We came up with the fake claims based on what species they are lol.

I'll give a summary list:

Role: Kaine Machine - Machine Claim: Animal Loving Machine - Machine

Role: Caim and Angelus - Human and Dragon Claim: Moose - Living creature

Role: Sleeping Beauty - Machine Claim: Sarte - Machine

Role: Nier and Weiss - Replicant and book Claims: King of the Forest/Master Swordsmith Masamune - Machine, Operator 21O/Jack Ass - Androids (Issue with either is Nier and Weiss can be caught by the docs... so we should probably toss in a non android or machine... but I'm not sure of any besides the Moose we are giving to Caim XD Sooooo oh well I guess.

Role: Adam - Android Claim: 9S (Works with android doc claim he heals androids through his hacking ability) - Android

Role: Eve - Android Claims: Anemone/Operator 6O/Commander White - Android

Also Kaine was going to get a suggestion that her animal loving machine role claim be vanilla to help with cover in the cult but we can leave it up to her to read the room before she claims if we want. XD
 
Hey! My masters was basically a degree based on random trivia (not really but sometimes it feels like it lol) so I'm like you. I'll just think of some sample questions when I'm not tired :P

Right now the only question i can think of is "what is my first name" LOL Orrrrrr "What player am I?" XD
That sounds like my kind of course lol, I don't think you'd accept "what is my first name" as providing proof would be pretty hard haha

However I'd point out that the cult leader is supposed to be the oldest living cult member (aka based on who was recruited first) but if we go with the cult hijacker we can remove this piece of info and claim it's randomized to a random cult member and we can RNG it for real if Kaine isn't recruited.
Yeah I had totally forgotten this, glad you like the role and I'll see if I can come up with a good fix so it doesn't need to go to RNG (which I'm never a big fan of)
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
That sounds like my kind of course lol, I don't think you'd accept "what is my first name" as providing proof would be pretty hard haha
Funny enough there is a way to find out my name... so if they had explained how it was possible I might allow it... but it'd require the player knowing who the sender is to help narrow it down, so yeah you are right.
Yeah I had totally forgotten this, glad you like the role and I'll see if I can come up with a good fix so it doesn't need to go to RNG (which I'm never a big fan of)
could always claim it's RNG but it'll always be Kaine or whoever was first recruited out of those alive if she isn't in the cult yet.
 
Morning thought which might already actually be a thing: don't let sleeping beauty ask the same question multiple times, don't let them be lazy.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Morning thought which might already actually be a thing: don't let sleeping beauty ask the same question multiple times, don't let them be lazy.
Agreed c: As much fun as it is to ask "What is my favorite color?" (I will 100% allow that BTW you can't stop me) they need to have some variety. XD

Also should we let the person being asked know if they got the question right or not? Obviously we won't tell them they got RB'd if they get it wrong XD I just assume they should know if they were right or not.
 
Agreed c: As much fun as it is to ask "What is my favorite color?" (I will 100% allow that BTW you can't stop me) they need to have some variety. XD

Also should we let the person being asked know if they got the question right or not? Obviously we won't tell them they got RB'd if they get it wrong XD I just assume they should know if they were right or not.
You can't prove that the supplied answer is your favourite colour! It'd be a random guess! :P

Making it so that the player doesn't learn if they were right or not will give sleeping beauty a bit more flexibility if they want to gambit but I don't think it matters too much. Does sleeping beauty learn if she gets the roleblock off?
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
You can't prove that the supplied answer is your favourite colour! It'd be a random guess! :P

Making it so that the player doesn't learn if they were right or not will give sleeping beauty a bit more flexibility if they want to gambit but I don't think it matters too much. Does sleeping beauty learn if she gets the roleblock off?
:< But whatttttt if I make it a multiple answer question?!

A. Blue
B. Orange
C. Green

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Yeah I can get behind not telling the player they got it wrong or right.

I was personally thinking SB would be notified if the person got it wrong. After all her wincon is succeeding 3 times so it'd probably be nice to know how close they are to their wincon lol.
 
:< But whatttttt if I make it a multiple answer question?!

A. Blue
B. Orange
C. Green

---
Yeah I can get behind not telling the player they got it wrong or right.

I was personally thinking SB would be notified if the person got it wrong. After all her wincon is succeeding 3 times so it'd probably be nice to know how close they are to their wincon lol.
All you've done is increased the odds! :alpha:
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I agree with you on letting SB know, I think that telling the target whether they got it right/wrong or keeping it hidden are both completely fine, so whatever you and Vere favour.
 
Yeah I had totally forgotten this, glad you like the role and I'll see if I can come up with a good fix so it doesn't need to go to RNG (which I'm never a big fan of)
Here's my best idea at a fix: Don't tell the players how the recruit is passed down and if Kaine isn't in the chat, give it to the oldest member but if she is give it to her.

Less lies, less randomness, everyone wins >:)
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Here's my best idea at a fix: Don't tell the players how the recruit is passed down and if Kaine isn't in the chat, give it to the oldest member but if she is give it to her.

Less lies, less randomness, everyone wins >:)
Yep that works >:3
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Hey! My masters was basically a degree based on random trivia (not really but sometimes it feels like it lol) so I'm like you. I'll just think of some sample questions when I'm not tired :P

Right now the only question i can think of is "what is my first name" LOL Orrrrrr "What player am I?" XD

:o !!! This role sound amazing and I 100% support the idea.

The very idea with the cult is that it's basically a fake cult that is really a neighbor chat and is a way for the vanillas in the game to game solve which gives town a huge advantage especially if they can fuck with scum on the right night by doing Become of Gods. Them being a fake cult is to make town suspicious of them and even each other if they don't trust the leader.

Having Kaine machine be a hijacker that will inherit the position if she's recruited into the cult is a great idea as basically she can really hinder cult's plans and keep it from being an advantage for town.

Her being a highjacker also sounds awesome since she's a machine so maybe her machine body has some hacking capabilities to is allowing her to do this LOL.

Also of course I'd say that naturally like every other member of the cult she doesn't know what Become as Gods actually does. Since the cult leader won't even know it makes no sense for her to know and it'd be giving too much info. Besides even if she does know she'd get suspicion if she never uses it even after they get enough members (unless she purposely fucks up picking recruitable targets XD)

However I'd point out that the cult leader is supposed to be the oldest living cult member (aka based on who was recruited first) but if we go with the cult hijacker we can remove this piece of info and claim it's randomized to a random cult member and we can RNG it for real if Kaine isn't recruited.

That's the plan :D We came up with the fake claims based on what species they are lol.

I'll give a summary list:

Role: Kaine Machine - Machine Claim: Animal Loving Machine - Machine

Role: Caim and Angelus - Human and Dragon Claim: Moose - Living creature

Role: Sleeping Beauty - Machine Claim: Sarte - Machine

Role: Nier and Weiss - Replicant and book Claims: King of the Forest/Master Swordsmith Masamune - Machine, Operator 21O/Jack Ass - Androids (Issue with either is Nier and Weiss can be caught by the docs... so we should probably toss in a non android or machine... but I'm not sure of any besides the Moose we are giving to Caim XD Sooooo oh well I guess.

Role: Adam - Android Claim: 9S (Works with android doc claim he heals androids through his hacking ability) - Android

Role: Eve - Android Claims: Anemone/Operator 6O/Commander White - Android

Also Kaine was going to get a suggestion that her animal loving machine role claim be vanilla to help with cover in the cult but we can leave it up to her to read the room before she claims if we want. XD
If Kaine Machine does hijack the cult then BECOME AS GODS should definitely be inverted so as to impact town.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
:< But whatttttt if I make it a multiple answer question?!

A. Blue
B. Orange
C. Green

---
Yeah I can get behind not telling the player they got it wrong or right.

I was personally thinking SB would be notified if the person got it wrong. After all her wincon is succeeding 3 times so it'd probably be nice to know how close they are to their wincon lol.
To keep an air of mystery we can switch the notification to an even and odd schedule, where SB is too tired the subsequent day to stay awake and hear the answer.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
If Kaine Machine does hijack the cult then BECOME AS GODS should definitely be inverted so as to impact town.
hmmm that actually makes sense. I was under the impression that Kaine machine would either just do the become as gods to throw off suspicion from her cult and do it on a day her team wasn't killing to fuck with the other team, but this might be a good idea. What do you have in mind?
To keep an air of mystery we can switch the notification to an even and odd schedule, where SB is too tired the subsequent day to stay awake and hear the answer.
What do you mean by this?
 

Verelios

Were-elios
hmmm that actually makes sense. I was under the impression that Kaine machine would either just do the become as gods to throw off suspicion from her cult and do it on a day her team wasn't killing to fuck with the other team, but this might be a good idea. What do you have in mind?
Well, I think a townwide block is fine since we're inverting it (and technically she can still bw targeted by the other scum team). Unless you have another deeper hijack idea?

What do you mean by this?
I meant that we would tell SB if their question was answered correctly on even or odd days so they have an idea where they stand with their WC but not the entire picture.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Well, I think a townwide block is fine since we're inverting it (and technically she can still bw targeted by the other scum team). Unless you have another deeper hijack idea?
We could just make it that if she's cult leader when it happens her team doesn't get RB'd. she'd still want to do it on the day they can't kill because her team would find it suspicious if a kill still goes through, but it'd be a little bonus.

if she's in the cult but isn't leader then all she's getting is she knows it's happening as she'll have to allow it to happen to avoid getting scumread.
I meant that we would tell SB if their question was answered correctly on even or odd days so they have an idea where they stand with their WC but not the entire picture.
True... not a bad idea I guess.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
We could just make it that if she's cult leader when it happens her team doesn't get RB'd. she'd still want to do it on the day they can't kill because her team would find it suspicious if a kill still goes through, but it'd be a little bonus.

if she's in the cult but isn't leader then all she's getting is she knows it's happening as she'll have to allow it to happen to avoid getting scumread.

True... not a bad idea I guess.
Mmmm, that's something we can do. So her being in control leaves a backdoor for her team, I like that.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I'm drawing a blank on what she could use. I thought about a watcher variant but it didn't seem right.
As of right now she has nothing LOL I'm pretty sure ever since we made it so both teams get one ninja shot. Since Nier is a jailer, something like a weak watcher wouldn't be too bad tho. They go first I wanna say so we can't make them too beefy.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
As of right now she has nothing LOL I'm pretty sure ever since we made it so both teams get one ninja shot. Since Nier is a jailer, something like a weak watcher wouldn't be too bad tho. They go first I wanna say so we can't make them too beefy.
Hm...so three courses:

1. She can only watch herself
2. She can only see that someone visited her target but not who
3. She can see who visits her target but her target also sees her (Becsuse she's not subtle haha)
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Hm...so three courses:

1. She can only watch herself
2. She can only see that someone visited her target but not who
3. She can see who visits her target but her target also sees her (Becsuse she's not subtle haha)
lol that last one is amusing since she was Originally a ninja, but that might be too much of a detriment.

One it confirms her and while that might be nice for deep wolfing, all her vanilla cult chat buddies might find it suspicious.

2 seems like a good option tho. It keeps information limited. My only suggestion is possibly making her a tracker instead of watcher so she can see if her targeted targeted anyone, but not their power. This would essentially make her a vanilla cop in that she has a chance of seeing her target do an action which tells her the person has a power or not. If that's too beefy then we can go with the original idea.Watcher gives less information so it might work.

1 also works as it's basically more informational, but is a passive so if she claims vanilla it's more believable. The only way she gets caught by the tracker shot is if she does the night kill.
 
@Verelios @lokiduck

Apparently you two don't have a banner so I whipped this up :P

fate_mafia_banner.png
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Okay I'm ready to get back into this now that I won't be busy with mafia games. I think mainly we were figuring out the last of scum powers, making sure all factions had a shot at winning, and addressing any concerns about sleeping beauty?

I'd love to actually hear feedback from @OceanicAir as well.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Okay I'm ready to get back into this now that I won't be busy with mafia games. I think mainly we were figuring out the last of scum powers, making sure all factions had a shot at winning, and addressing any concerns about sleeping beauty?

I'd love to actually hear feedback from @OceanicAir as well.
Yep to all three, although I think we just wanted confirmation for Kaine Machine.
 
You both should definitely make the most of the next couple days because now is the only time where none of us are running a game lol

I'll start poking OA in 2 weeks and if he doesn't contact us you'll only need me to approve the game for the review to be finished.

With that out the way I'll reread some posts, didn't realize you two were waiting on me.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
Hey again.

SB should be fine with knowing if she's right or not. Having the target not know is also a ok in my book.

Making kaine a tracker is also good

2b's ability I think should activate after at least a day since the first couple of dead bodies could be outed a really put a scum team behind.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
You both should definitely make the most of the next couple days because now is the only time where none of us are running a game lol
Yeahhh that's why I'm wanting this game to be worked on now. XD I really want these games to be approved and this one is closing in.
SB should be fine with knowing if she's right or not. Having the target not know is also a ok in my book.
Yeah I can agree with this. Of my personal opinion we won't tell the person being asked but we will def tell SB so she know show far along she is.
Making kaine a tracker is also good
Good to know you confirm, what do you think of us making her a machine so she can be a spy in the cult? XD
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Looking over the spreadsheet, I think we may be done figuring out powers?!

We just need to do some balancing look over to make sure all factions have a chance, and then we can work on the role PMs. I can practically taste that finish line.
 
Tracker might be a bit powerful for kaine machine but not enough to throw off game balance me thinks.

Suggestion make it so that 2B can't use their FI shot until either N3 or N4, it'd be better if there's time for players to visit eachother.

So who wants to run the numbers on how many days each faction has to win? :laughing:
I did some small amount of maths a while ago in the design sheet, feel free to continue my work :P
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Tracker might be a bit powerful for kaine machine but not enough to throw off game balance me thinks.

Suggestion make it so that 2B can't use their FI shot until either N3 or N4, it'd be better if there's time for players to visit eachother.
If we make Kaine Machine a x shot it may help with balancing. I'm thinking a 2 shot. We could do the same with Eve's x shot strong man shots, or give him more to balance things out but I think personally they only need two.
I did some small amount of maths a while ago in the design sheet, feel free to continue my work :P
But I'm bad at the maths for these type of things. :< @Verelios is better at it.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Let me see:

Scum victory (Best Path)
Start: 14 town; 2 L (Nier) scum; 2 R (Adam) scum; 2 Neutral
D1: Misvote (town) 13T; 2LS; 2RS; 2N

N1: N.Kill and Serial Kill (other team) 11T; 2LS; 2RS: 2N
Total= 17
D2: Misvote 10 T; 2LS; 2RS; 2N

N2: Kill and S.Kill 8 T; 2LS; 2RS: 2N
Total= 14
D3: Misvote 7 T; 2LS; 2RS; 2N

N3: Kill and S.kill 5T; 2LS; 2RS; 2N
SB wins! Total=10

D4: misvote 4T; 2LS; 2RS; 1N

N4: Kill and S.Kill 2T; 2LS; 2RS; 1N
Total= 7

D5: Lylo


Town victory (Best path)

D1: Vote out scum (3 scum left)
N1: Kill and Serial Kill scum (Nier hits Adam team, SK hits scum= 1 scum left
D2: Vote out last scum


Hmmm...is my math right? Town can win on the second day if everything goes right for them?
 
Let me see:

Scum victory (Best Path)
Start: 14 town; 2 L (Nier) scum; 2 R (Adam) scum; 2 Neutral
D1: Misvote (town) 13T; 2LS; 2RS; 2N

N1: N.Kill and Serial Kill (other team) 11T; 2LS; 2RS: 2N
Total= 17
D2: Misvote 10 T; 2LS; 2RS; 2N

N2: Kill and S.Kill 8 T; 2LS; 2RS: 2N
Total= 14
D3: Misvote 7 T; 2LS; 2RS; 2N

N3: Kill and S.kill 5T; 2LS; 2RS; 2N
SB wins! Total=10

D4: misvote 4T; 2LS; 2RS; 1N

N4: Kill and S.Kill 2T; 2LS; 2RS; 1N
Total= 7

D5: Lylo


Town victory (Best path)

D1: Vote out scum (3 scum left)
N1: Kill and Serial Kill scum (Nier hits Adam team, SK hits scum= 1 scum left
D2: Vote out last scum


Hmmm...is my math right? Town can win on the second day if everything goes right for them?
Technically town still needs to kill the SK but the vigi could take care of that.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
lol wow. I really hope it doesn't go like that for town >> We gave both scum teams some protection so hopefully that helps.
 
Ok so the town earliest winning is a bit too swingy to really matter that much as the chance of both teams being shredded is astronomically low and you made that choice when you went with a SK multiball game.

A scum team of two usually should win after ~3 misvotes, currently in a world where everything goes their way it'll take 5. Multiball again makes this more complicated but this can lead to scum getting massacred or town becoming extrememly fustrated at not being able to find a lead (ala house of horrors)

I think there are too many variables for me with my experience to actually make this a well balanced game. :'(

I've kind of lost what has been changed from the beginning of the review and now so would suggest making role PMs, would make it easier to look at all the details and get a better idea of the balance.
 
(That may seem like mindless venting because it is but I was finding it difficult to get back into the review mindset)

TLDR; This is a very bastard, very swingy game.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Ok so the town earliest winning is a bit too swingy to really matter that much as the chance of both teams being shredded is astronomically low and you made that choice when you went with a SK multiball game.
A scum team of two usually should win after ~3 misvotes, currently in a world where everything goes their way it'll take 5. Multiball again makes this more complicated but this can lead to scum getting massacred or town becoming extrememly fustrated at not being able to find a lead (ala house of horrors)
(That may seem like mindless venting because it is but I was finding it difficult to get back into the review mindset)

TLDR; This is a very bastard, very swingy game.
Yeah we are basically taking that risk by making the game the way it is, but I'd say the fact that there's a lot of different ways this game can go at least. And after having two games where scum was basically on a roll the whole way through i wouldn't mind town having a chance for once LOL thoooooo agian we do need to make sure these games are balanced.

I'll forever stand by my other games being balanced and it just being good scumplay/coincidences that helped them up so much, and really that's the mentality you have to take when game making lol.

Make things as balanced as is possible, change what clearly needs to be changed, and mainly just hope everyone has fun at least.
I think there are too many variables for me with my experience to actually make this a well balanced game. :'(
What Monkey has suggested in our other game being reviewed is actually reviewing each role one at a time and how it interacts with the other roles. She says it's better than trying to run through every possible scenario which is basically impossible in super complex games (basically the type of games I like making or Geno games XD).

So maybe we can try that! :D
I've kind of lost what has been changed from the beginning of the review and now so would suggest making role PMs, would make it easier to look at all the details and get a better idea of the balance.
I wouldn't getting started on the role PMs.

I'll check in just with Vere and we can start working on those. I think for now we can focus on the role info to help with the balancing, and we can always do the flavor stuff later.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZSyeOFloYsgBuTdNHYvTMrLqY771FFB6txZmxAPqlvE/edit?usp=sharing

THE ROLE PMS (DON'T WORRY WILL ADD THE LINK UP TOP).

Notes as I write PMs:

- 2B will not be told which powers can not be absorbed, just that some powers can't be. Saying she can't get recruit would clue her in on the cult lol.

- Sample PM is 12H the first Yorha android to die at the beginning of the game. Right now she's a vanilla since Role ones need to be in games with vanillas right? Since she's not a machine maybe we should make her something.
 
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Verelios

Were-elios
(That may seem like mindless venting because it is but I was finding it difficult to get back into the review mindset)

TLDR; This is a very bastard, very swingy game.
Like Loki mentioned, I think having the game be swingy isn't intrinsically bad so long as every faction has a good chance to win. I agree that we should start posting role pms to see how they balance though, haha.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
How I found out 12H was the first one killed. LOL I watched the opening cutscene and took this screen shot.

Screen Shot 2021-02-27 at 5.42.48 PM.png

Then when a unit was killed i used this pic to find out who got killed. Just wanted to show my work ;)
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
More PM Notes:

Town is "Those Living in a dead world" since town in nier was "those struggling to live in a dying world" and lol the world died between games. It's a fun call back. The androids also are surviving they are more of just living.

Adam Eve is "Those out to make a better world" since duh they are.

Nier Kaine is "Those out to bring back a world they lost" which is why our two scum teams are competing :p One team wants to make a great world for machines, the others want to bring back their love ones.

SB and Caim Angelus can be "You are aligned only with yourself" tho we could make some specialized ones lol

Like Caim is "only with yourself and out to destroy everything."

SB is "only with yourself and out to protect the stories you care for." or something like that.

--------------------

Should Emil be told what the items do? Most of feels he should only know the name of the item.

Also

Will he be notified which item was given?

Too hide what the items do I gave them flavor names if we go the path where Emil doesn't know what each item does. We can change the flavor as needed so please give me your input @Verelios and @Aeleus

The items.

1 Key - Self roleblock but protected from normal killing actions. Can be killed by Strongman or ninja shots.
1 Iron Pipe - the Lightning rod. This one is cheeky because it's named after an actual weapon found in both games :p Additionally maybe the other items can match this.
1 Scanner - The track shot.
1 Electric Buzzer - The Roleblock. It shocks the person as soon as they touch it knocking them out for the night meaning they can use their powers.
1 Extra Ballot - Double Vote.
1 Bottle of Booze - Vote loss. Instead of voting that day, they get drunk \o/ Also not very persuasive when drunk :<
1 Fishing Pole - Role Fish check. Select a player and learn their role. (Forgot do we want to have it have a 50% chance of working? Since it's one Shot me thinks not, but I want your opinion).
1 Fancy Hat - Does nothing but hey you look fabulous. +1 to Charisma checks. \o/

I added some juicy flavor to the items so please check those out.

Basically the PM will go like "Congrats! You received an item! You received: 1 item name - Flavor

What the item does."

---

Additionally... Emil will give out an item at night. But any items that affect at night will happen the following night since... well the player will get the item in the morning LOL. So the RB and LR will activate during the following night they are given...

I think we had previously discussed it happening the night they are given but that doesn't make sense if they are given the item during the night phase >> What say you guys?

However the double vote and voteless take affect immediately.

---

Wouldn't Simone player be suspicious if they realize they can command/roleblock Devola and Popola (if they claim machine doc and get RB'd), but not Adam (Android Doc).

Captains usually have access to at least one scum power... However by the logic she can also command Kaine Machine (under investigative) and Nier (Under Protective)...

It's something to consider. If we do it then the plan is simple.

Simone uses the command Sing: protect Faddy. During the night phase we RNG which protective power (aka Devola and Popopla, Adam, or Nier) gets the order.

Only issue I have with this is that as far as balancing goes it's unfair to scum having a chance they can't use their powers how they want... But again will town be suspicious that one doc can be commanded but one can not?

---

:pikathink: 2B really will give town a lot of extra power shots she's basically a more guaranteed motivate since Pascal may pump up town instead. She also can be a role cop sorta based on what powers are used on her.

---

Right now Pod 042's message shot targets player 1 or 2 which their player has to specify. 2B is 1 and A2 is 2. This is to prevent 042 from confirming a flavor in the game tho they may speculate who those are.

1. Is 9S a dangerous claim because surely 9S would be one of the message receivers (tho one could argue we wanted to mess with 042 but not going for him obviously).
2. Right now if both 2B and A2 are dead then the target is randomized and we won't tell 042. One thing I was thinking.

It's straight forward if both are alive.

If 2B is dead and A2 alive then = If 042 picks 1 it's randomized. If they pick 2 it's sent to A2.

If A2 is dead and 2B is alive then = If 042 picks 1 it's sent to 2B. If they pick 2 it's randomized.

If both are dead it's randomized.

---

If Pascal uses the motivate on 042, what gets boosted? Is it RNG'd? Can they pick?

---

Does little Robot Cult Leader know what Become as Gods does (not in their role PM, would just be a message ater the PM so not included in flip)

---

Thought about giving all the vanilla machines (fake claims too) the same flavor but with some words changed based on their name, but I actually think it's better if they don't fully match.

So Child, Mother, and Father Machine all have the same flavor and end phrase with just their name changed around aka "have fun being a child!" "Have fun being a mother!" Also I feel having their flavor be the same really fits them flavor wise anyways.

And Little Sister and Big sister will get something different but similar to each other.

Then the fake claim Animal Loving machine will have their own thing. This is soooooo the cult won't assume that they all have the same flavor (some cover for Kaine Machine if she claims something else for some reason) But also since three of them have the same flavor they may be suspicious of the two sisters for having different flavor.

LOL

Let me know what you guys think and if we should make it all the same.

---

Do we want to let Sleeping Beauty know she can make it a yes or no question, a multiple choice question, or a true or false question.

---

"You win when your faction makes up 50% of the remaining players." Is this a reasonable wincon for this game for scum?

With the number of players, scum will know there are two scum teams. Do we want to include "and you eliminate all threats" for Caim and Angelus?

---

At default, all scum members with x shots I made 2 shot. Please let me know if we want to increase or lesson their shots. The way I figure, they all have a chance of getting motivated by Pascal. However, Nier and Kaine get the first killing killing on odd nights they could less shots maybe?

---

For Kaine Nier team, I have written their PM Flavor. However, the full details will be their scum chat first post just go into more spoilery details on how they aare even here lol. That okay? XD
 
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lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
:surprised: *passes out*

I did it!!! \o/ I did all the role PMs in like one day. Please let me know what you think guys ;w;

I was running out of ideas for the flavor aspects, so Vere if you want to revamp someone please go ahead.

Either way I thought of a lot of questions and ideas while typing shit out so let's focus on that stuff first maybe, then we can look more closely over every thing with the PMs.

I look forward to your responses peeps.
 
I'd hardcode what ability gets motivated for pod 042, though that's because I'm not a big fan of RNG
------
I don't see why Emil's roleblock/thunderod couldn't work on the night they give them
------
Definitely make 12H vanilla as
A) Evil needs to know what vanilla looks like in order to possibly claim vanilla
B) I don't see a reason why you two should make it any clearer to cult that vanilla town = possible cultist
------------
I've added some additional comments onto the role PM, ranges from important stuff to very stupid
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I'd hardcode what ability gets motivated for pod 042, though that's because I'm not a big fan of RNG
Okay then... out of the powers the most useful is the track, but Emil also gives one out... maybe the commute would be better?
I don't see why Emil's roleblock/thunderod couldn't work on the night they give them
I'm just thinking that Emil picks his target at night, then when actions lock we RNG it in the morning and give it to them right away so they would have already completed the action...

But I also guess it makes sense and would fit with the vote loss and other items during the day that can be used.

I'll change the flavor then.
Definitely make 12H vanilla as
A) Evil needs to know what vanilla looks like in order to possibly claim vanilla
B) I don't see a reason why you two should make it any clearer to cult that vanilla town = possible cultist
Sounds good o7
I've added some additional comments onto the role PM, ranges from important stuff to very stupid
sounds good will look at those later o7 I got shit to do for now.

EDIT: I actually looked at them. Your stupid one was my favorite.
 
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Verelios

Were-elios
:surprised: *passes out*

I did it!!! \o/ I did all the role PMs in like one day. Please let me know what you think guys ;w;

I was running out of ideas for the flavor aspects, so Vere if you want to revamp someone please go ahead.

Either way I thought of a lot of questions and ideas while typing shit out so let's focus on that stuff first maybe, then we can look more closely over every thing with the PMs.

I look forward to your responses peeps.
\o/ great job. I think we can finetune flavor after the mechanics get done, there shouldn't be a problem in that case.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
So anything else we need to work on after seeing the PM. I'm kind of on a role here and :D :D :D I want to keep this going.
 
So anything else we need to work on after seeing the PM. I'm kind of on a role here and :D :D :D I want to keep this going.
Replied to the comments on the doc
-----------
What do you two think about making it clear that a faction has been defeated after all their members are killed? It worked well in HvV2 and would stop town from chasing another non-existant lead.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Replied to the comments on the doc
-----------
What do you two think about making it clear that a faction has been defeated after all their members are killed? It worked well in HvV2 and would stop town from chasing another non-existant lead.
100% Support this idea. We'll do the same if all the fake cult dies before they do BECOME AS GODS.
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Replied to the comments on the doc
-----------
What do you two think about making it clear that a faction has been defeated after all their members are killed? It worked well in HvV2 and would stop town from chasing another non-existant lead.
That's a cool idea, I can get behind moving like that. It will make the flavor more impactful too.
 

OceanicAir

4 8 15 16 23 42
Looks good from what I've read.

Definitely agree on letting factions be known they are dead to the public. And on that note, do the scum teams have any sort of official name? Because it can't just be the usual mafia or scum assigned to them when a role flips.

I guess that having the right to reject questions kinda included the no repeats. But maybe a general theme of what's allowed still so it doesn't like like they are being governed by mercurial gods?
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
And on that note, do the scum teams have any sort of official name? Because it can't just be the usual mafia or scum assigned to them when a role flips.
Well as of right now Adam and Eve are "Those out to make a new and better world" while Kaine and Nier are "Those out to bring back a world they lost".

So if we were to give their mafia teams names it'd be "new world" and "old world." Flavor wise.

Meanwhile town is "those living in a dead world" aka "status quo" team, and the neutrals are out for themselves with the attached "kill everyone you can" (Caim) and "protect the old stories" (Sleeping Beauty).

Basically all 5 teams are:

Old world
New world
Status Quo
Killing everyone
Protect the stories

XD
I guess that having the right to reject questions kinda included the no repeats. But maybe a general theme of what's allowed still so it doesn't like like they are being governed by mercurial gods?
I guess we could include the rule of no repeats. Giving example questions might be good. We'd just have to ban the player from being able to use said examples. XD

Still think it might be good to tell them they can do questions that are true or false, multiple choice, or answer the question based.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
I had a dream... that a new mafia game was starting (unclear whether it was Nier: Automata Mafia or not) and Launch had a post pregame that got edited with some ispoiler text saying (I'm excited to see the BECOME AS GODS part). I immediately get mad and go message him to edit his post before anyone sees anything but it's too late to do so. So I scrap Nier: Automata all together.
As it turns out Launch never wrote that piece of text and it was edited in by someone... and now I'm convinced... was it one of you three.
mothman.png


WHICH ONE OF YOU BETRAYED OUR SACRED REVIEWER TRUST?! WAS IT YOU VERE?!

cryraikou.png
 

Verelios

Were-elios
I had a dream... that a new mafia game was starting (unclear whether it was Nier: Automata Mafia or not) and Launch had a post pregame that got edited with some ispoiler text saying (I'm excited to see the BECOME AS GODS part). I immediately get mad and go message him to edit his post before anyone sees anything but it's too late to do so. So I scrap Nier: Automata all together.
As it turns out Launch never wrote that piece of text and it was edited in by someone... and now I'm convinced... was it one of you three. View attachment 231

WHICH ONE OF YOU BETRAYED OUR SACRED REVIEWER TRUST?! WAS IT YOU VERE?!

View attachment 232
It was me Loki. IT WAS ALWAYS ME
0aeded9dd7ae3335850997f3763f23b0.gif


And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for that meddling dream.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Oh good... >:D Stan talked about Drakengard that'll be a nice refresher for Caim and Angelus in Nier: Automata.

We need to finish this game up asap to capitalize on it >:D
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Does 2B get a role fish shot if targeted by the awarded role fish?
I want to say no...since it's not an ability but an item. But I think we discussed this @lokiduck, and came away with 2B not being able to.
That is correct o7

Emil's vending powers are item based so 2B will not absorb any of them. She also can't recruit or get killing powers as usually she'd be dead from a killing power. lol.
 
Reception to the "target has to have survived two nights" rule seems to have a positive consensus so please edit the 2B role PM to mention that for now.

Still some disagreement on how to handle Kaine machine so I recommend Loki and Vere have a big fight/polite discussion over it and let me know what you've come up with.

Also going to link the design of EastEnders mafia, not for any mechanical reason but because I've copied Sneeks/Natiko's way of formatting designs and think you might like it too https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r4WM5a7CcYwdn3GENLQm4njcOnB2lbMvc3jXKzjEgwM/edit?usp=sharing
 

Verelios

Were-elios
Reception to the "target has to have survived two nights" rule seems to have a positive consensus so please edit the 2B role PM to mention that for now.

Still some disagreement on how to handle Kaine machine so I recommend Loki and Vere have a big fight/polite discussion over it and let me know what you've come up with.

Also going to link the design of EastEnders mafia, not for any mechanical reason but because I've copied Sneeks/Natiko's way of formatting designs and think you might like it too https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r4WM5a7CcYwdn3GENLQm4njcOnB2lbMvc3jXKzjEgwM/edit?usp=sharing
That's an interesting design format, definitely very tidy to have everything in one place.
 

lokiduck

Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
Still some disagreement on how to handle Kaine machine so I recommend Loki and Vere have a big fight/polite discussion over it and let me know what you've come up with.
LOL I wasn't sure what we were disagreeing on until i looked at the role PMs doc. Vere has a point about it maybe not being great Kaine learns tooo much about the cult.

Also no one in the cult knows what become as gods does not even the leader... So probably best not to tell Kaine machine too???

Kaine Machine however I think upon being recruited should be told that she will inherit the cult if the leader dies... but what can we do to tell her to claim vanilla. Vere is right that telling her that everymember is vanilla except for the leader and her would give her team too much info... but saying "only vanillas can be leader" will just confuse her since she isn't a vanilla.

I still honestly think we should go with telling her her fake claim is Animal Loving Machine and her fake power is Vanilla. There's 100% a risk her player refuses to claim Vanilla like how Zeke and Salva both decided to claim a power despite being masters in Fate/Mafia So if we can think of a better way to give her the hint then please suggest it.

maybe...

"Welcome to the little Robot Cult Kaine Machine! You have unlocked a new ability! You will become cult leader if the leader dies! You are qualified for the position because of your great compassion for animals despite your lack of powers (or at least that's what everyone thinks...)"

PROPOSAL: What if flavor wise, Kaine machine was originally Animal Loving Machine but he got hacked and overwritten by Kaine's personality through some off camera Shenanigans. We could even change her flavor dialogue to reflect this. Basically everyone thinks she is Animal Loving Machine, but she's really Kaine Machine just keeping up the act until she needs to strike.

"A foulmouthed bitch, you died in the fog. However, you have somehow been reborn… as a Machine. Well this is just peachy... However, you’ve been promised a better body when this is all over if you can accomplish your goal. For now you'll just have to keep pretending to be Animal Loving Machine, the poor sucker your personality files are now overriding."

Yes this was a 100% inspired by EastEnders Mafia LOL but hey doesn't it work in this case Aeleus :D :D :D Since we are making it clear Kaine machine needs to claim Animal Loving Machine, maybe they'll get the hint they need to claim vanilla while not realizing it's because all recruited members except them are vanilla? :D
Reception to the "target has to have survived two nights" rule seems to have a positive consensus so please edit the 2B role PM to mention that for now.
Added o7
Also going to link the design of EastEnders mafia, not for any mechanical reason but because I've copied Sneeks/Natiko's way of formatting designs and think you might like it too https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1r4WM5a7CcYwdn3GENLQm4njcOnB2lbMvc3jXKzjEgwM/edit?usp=sharing

Oooh nice. I like keep PMs in google docs since i can freely add the highlight tags once the PM gets approved later. But I have done similar stuff with my other games. Usually we add extra tabs to the main roster to keep track of night actions and players. here was how Fate/Mafia looked

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1md3K_OyGd2yHb4qAOcEhCZ5nDnzAKPwi5HryJsUllao/edit?usp=sharing

And Nier

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xayoW6GFff_776JKqc0Lz_-aX93pr32lYWL2xRbSFJ8/edit?usp=sharing

I got the idea from being a game watcher during Fran's Greed Island mafia.
 
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