Ideas for the game (Am I doing this right?)

[lokiduck]

Hey! So here are some of my ideas I have already been thinking about in the game.

First of all I was thinking that simply town would mainly being the main Nier cast and some of the more notiable NPCs, while scum would be the Shadowlord and various bosses in the game. However, the main reason I actually wanted to make this game is because I was thinking that Roc (The shadow wolf that leads the desert wolves) is a Neutral.

All Roc wants is to live with his pack in the woods and be happy, but he can't have that because his forest is getting destroyed and his pack slaughtered. So now all he wants is revenge against the main causers of this: The people of Facade. Therefore his win con is that all players that are members of Facade (most likely just the King and his fiance... maybe one of the guards/advisors???) are taken out.

I also really feel like there should be some kind of mechanic around Yonah since she was the main drive of the plot in the game.

 

[lokiduck]

I mostly lean towards Yonah being an Innocent Child as that'd fit her pretty good, but I also kind of like the idea of making her a beloved Princess based on what I've read about them.

Since basically Nier wants to protect Yonah and the Shadowlord wants her, it'd be bad for her to die in the actual game right? so it'd seem appropriate that town gets punished for it I guess???

 

[lokiduck]

Anyways characters I'd make town for sure while I'm still figuring out what roles they'd have:
Nier (Duh)
Grimoire Weiss
Kaine: I feel like she'd have some kind of negative utility to balance out whatever ability power she'd have. She also has the highest chance of being an Outsider.
Emil
The King of Facade: Some role related to this fact he's a king
Fyra: Something connected with the fact she can't speak???
Jaykob (The older blacksmith brother)
Gideon (The younger brother): He gets a power if his brother dies would make perfect sense.

Additional possible town characters based on NPCs:
(I want to include some of the more notable quest givers just to make whatever fake names we give scum more believable, some of these could be fake roles too)
The only other notable Facade citizen is the advisor Neun so if we need three characters for Roc to hunt down then there we go.
Fisherman: We got to include the guy who teaches you how to fish right??? XD
The Postman in Seafront Hans
The old lady in the lighthouse

 

[Pedro]

However, the main reason I actually wanted to make this game is because I was thinking that Roc (The shadow wolf that leads the desert wolves) is a Neutral.

All Roc wants is to live with his pack in the woods and be happy, but he can't have that because his forest is getting destroyed and his pack slaughtered. So now all he wants is revenge against the main causers of this: The people of Facade. Therefore his win con is that all players that are members of Facade (most likely just the King and his fiance... maybe one of the guards/advisors???) are taken out.

Ah, that is bittersweet ;; That Neutral wincon, "You win when X, Y, Z are eliminated from the game" can work; doesn't matter how X, Y, or Z die or who kills them, as long as they're all dead Roc wins.

You could change the role to a Serial Killer that needs to kill specific targets to win, but that's a harder wincon since he'd need to target the right players to kill them and win (1/20 chance of targeting the right person in a 21-player game). In that case, it'd be better to just make him kill one single person, the King.

You could *also* do like I did in Simon Says (you can see it in the game data sheet) and make him a Lyncher role, that needs to convince Town to lynch the King to win. Just giving you options to this idea ^^

---

I also really feel like there should be some kind of mechanic around Yonah since she was the main drive of the plot in the game.

I mostly lean towards Yonah being an Innocent Child as that'd fit her pretty good, but I also kind of like the idea of making her a beloved Princess based on what I've read about them.

Since basically Nier wants to protect Yonah and the Shadowlord wants her, it'd be bad for her to die in the actual game right? so it'd seem appropriate that town gets punished for it I guess???

Both sound cool and appropriate for her!

 

[lokiduck]

I like the idea of Roc only having to kill the King, maybe if we do it that way then Fyra can be his bodyguard that can sacrifice herself to protect him??? (That'd be horribly appropriate and depressing.)

I say either we go with him only having to kill the King as a lyncher or serial killer or we go with him just needing the three Facade characters to die.

However because he's a big vengeful wolf I do feel his power should be appropriate for that, so making him a day vig or something along those lines? He get's one shot of course.

I'm glad both roles sound like they'd fit Yonah, I'm just deciding which is better. I'm not sure if I want to make it a whole thing where the Shadowlord is trying to find her (since that'd only really work if he was neutral). Right now i'm leaning towards her being a Beloved Princess as town getting punished for her death seems appropriate for a game based on Nier. If she's an innocent child then scum will just kill her at some point once she claims.

 

[lokiduck]

I'm currently trying to figure out Devola and Popola. Ultimately they work for the Shadowlord, but they appear to be allies for most of the game so I was wondering if they should be scum and have a role that allows them to come off as Town.

 

[lokiduck]

Their reveal as scum might be pretty big spoilers for anyone who hasn't played the game though, so maybe if we don't want them to be scum we could have them as the NPCs that appear in the flavor???

 

[lokiduck]

One of the main things to consider in general is how we handle spoilers, I.E. how much we want to reveal since this game might get non-fans interested.

 

[Pedro]

Also, things that help me when I start designing a mafia game, that may help you, is figuring out what kind of game I'd like to make on a larger scale:
is it a small game (<15) or a big one (>25)?
Is it role-heavy or mostly vanilla?
Does it behave like a regular game or does it have some unique twist to it (like map in Animal Crossing Mafia, genders in Anime Mafia, rooms in The Mansion Mafia, etc.)?
Do the roles have alignments and powers that are flavor-appropriate (like in Steven Universe), or is it all random or purposedly innacurate (like making the protagonists in the game Vanilla) to throw people off and not get them spoiled?

There are no right or wrong answers to any of these, but knowing the answers helps me decide which roles I want to put in the game

 

[lokiduck]

Ooooh right another town option or fake role is Emil's butler Sebastian.

 

[lokiduck]

Oh okay then Let me figure out those answers then.

is it a small game (<15) or a big one (>25)?

If we are going to have Roc needing to kill three people then I want to say a reasonable amount of people. I don't want it to be too large (I do not think there are enough characters for that), but a decent size wouldn't be too bad.

Is it role-heavy or mostly vanilla?

I'm leaning role heavy as I'm pretty sure we can figure out a role for every character. (We have to find an amazing one if we include the Fisherman :o)

Does it behave like a regular game or does it have some unique twist to it (like map in Animal Crossing Mafia, genders in Anime Mafia, rooms in The Mansion Mafia, etc.)?

I don't think it will. The only way I could see that is if we include whether characters are listed as Shades,Gestalt, or other??? This mechanic would def screw over Kaine and and help if we make her an outsider. However it might also be over powered as it'd help in easily finding both Roc and the scum team so maybe not. Devola and Popola are also androids... and there is that boss P-33 (the robot) so there is def an option for a third type that can be found.

Again I have humored doing something based around Kaine but we could cover that with the flavor without having an actual mechanic.

Do the roles have alignments and powers that are flavor-appropriate (like in Steven Universe), or is it all random or purposedly innacurate (like making the protagonists in the game Vanilla) to throw people off and not get them spoiled?

I want them to be flavor appropriate, but maybe not what people would expect for the characters.

 

[lokiduck]

Also Verelios does want to help out with the game creation so can you give him access please?

 

[Pedro]

I'm currently trying to figure out Devola and Popola. Ultimately they work for the Shadowlord, but they appear to be allies for most of the game so I was wondering if they should be scum and have a role that allows them to come off as Town.

Their reveal as scum might be pretty big spoilers for anyone who hasn't played the game though, so maybe if we don't want them to be scum we could have them as the NPCs that appear in the flavor???

One of the main things to consider in general is how we handle spoilers, I.E. how much we want to reveal since this game might get non-fans interested.

What you could also do is make up your own story instead of following the game's xD put Emil against Nier, Shadowlord as the good guy (which he is, damnit), and just have fun with the plot in general.

I could perfectly see the twins as godfathers, or maybe the character that dies before the game begins so the players can read the sample role PM.

 

[Pedro]

Also Verelios does want to help out with the game creation so can you give him access please?

yay! I asked someone to give him access, he should be able to see this board anytime soon

 

[lokiduck]

I humored the idea of making the Shades town and Nier and the gang as scum but I just don't think I can (even if you are right) plus that would be a major spoiler.

Story wise... I want to do something outside of the game story a bit, maybe based around Yonah going missing and both scum and town are looking for her?

 

[lokiduck]

I could perfectly see the twins as godfathers, or maybe the character that dies before the game begins so the players can read the sample role PM.

oooh i do really like the idea of making the twins Godfathers. It'd fit them pretty good. Another idea i had was to randomly make them neutral but I'm not sure about that.

 

[lokiduck]

Let's see what Verelios has to say when he gets in here. XD

 

[Pedro]

There's a lot to build off of here already, haha. I'll think about these characters that still don't have a role and see what can be done with them

 

[Pedro]

Vere can see this now. hi @Verelios :wave:

 

[lokiduck]

I humored the idea of making the Shades town and Nier and the gang as scum but I just don't think I can (even if you are right) plus that would be a major spoiler.

Story wise... I want to do something outside of the game story a bit, maybe based around Yonah going missing and both scum and town are looking for her?

If we go with the Yonah missing plot, then we'd have to really emphasize to whoever gets Yonah that she needs to remain hidden.

Something I'm thinking about is that it wouldn't be weird event happen that causes the confusion on who is who. In the game itself you have the Forest of Myth for pete's sake so maybe we can put together an idea using something like that.

 

[lokiduck]

Hi @Verelios Glad you could join us as we make a crazy and possibly depressing game. XD

 

[lokiduck]

There's a lot to build off of here already, haha. I'll think about these characters that still don't have a role and see what can be done with them

While you figure out those roles, I'll probably consider who we want for the scum team. (However I feel Hans the postman if we use him should be a literal postman)

 

[lokiduck]

So for sure scum:
Shadowlord:
Grimoire Noir: has either a counter role or similar to Weiss

Possible scum:
Devola and Popola (Partnered godfathers, I.E. they use the ability together???)?

I'm not sure who else to add aside from the other bosses, but I'm not sure how we'd use them exactly.

 

[lokiduck]

Looking over the bosses, I guess we could possible use Hansel and Gretel the two you fight after Nier get's Weiss. But if we use them and the twins, then that is four different scum members who are in someway partnered with another (not as lovers of course, but still connected with another player) unless we give them two distinct powers that fit well together.

 

[lokiduck]

I guess the problem with most of the bosses (besides most of them mainly being characters that just want to live their lives and be left the fuck alone) (Honestly it'd make sense with most of them if we just made the shades town) is that they are usually pretty big, pretty inhuman and hard to pass off like the others unless of course we just ignore that aspect.

If we do a forest of myth type situation where everyone is asleep or in a weird realm so they aren't using their normal bodies then that might work.

Kalil and P-33 def don't work for the scum team in my opinion because again they just want to be left alone, though I'd humor the idea of them being a neutral pair that just want to survive. Maybe P-33's role is to protect Kalil?

 

[lokiduck]

Well fuck while going through the Nier Wiki I remembered that P-33 was nicknamed Beepy by Kalil and it gave me so many feels. I honestly really want them in the game as a neutral pair now. :<

Also humoring the idea of making the shades town and Nier and gang scum, I'd only be against it because it'd involve massive massive spoilers, but let's humor the idea for a bit.

If shades are town:
Town (? are option):

1. Shadowlord
2. Hansel
3. Gretel
4. Beepy: Bodyguard
5. Kalil:
6. Roc: Vigilante
7. Jack of Hearts?
8. Hook?
9. Sleeping Beauty?

Maybe town or neutral:

1. Devola
2. Popola

Scum:

1. Nier
2. Kaine
3. Emil

Optional Scum:

1. King of Facade

If shades are scum:

1. Nier
2. Weiss
3. Kaine: Outsider
4. Emil
5. Yonah: Beloved Princess
6. The King of Facade:
7. Fyra: Possible bodyguard for the king that dies in his place?
8. Jaykob:
9. Gideon: Power activates upon brother's death
10. Hans: mailman?
11. King's Adviser Neun?
12. Fisherman: (The best role in the damn game holy crap)?
13. The lighthouse lady?
14. Sebastian?

Neutral:

1. Roc: Vig (Win con is facade characters dead or just the king)
2. Kalil: Survivor
3. Beepy: Bodyguard for Kalil he wins if Kalil lives.

Scum

1. Shadowlord
2. Noir
3. Hansel
4. Gretel
5. Devola: Godfather?
6. Popola: Godfather?

Anyways that's what I got so far. I like either option honestly. I promise this will be my last post until I hear more from you guys. XD

 

[lokiduck]

One last thing, what if the role for the fisherman is literally called a "Role Fisher". He goes fishing and for some weird reason finds an item related to a person's role? XD


Also I looked it up and there is an unusual role called a Fisherman where they can fish for items. https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Fisherman

 

[Verelios]

@Pedro @lokiduck

Thanks for having me friends. I see we've got some fab ideas brewing.

 

[lokiduck]

@Pedro @lokiduck

Thanks for having me friends. I see we've got some fab ideas brewing.

Thanks. Definitely let us know what you think of our ideas so far and what you can come up with. c:

 

[Verelios]

Just thinking, but Popola and Devola are pretty reluctant about helping both sides. It would be interesting if they were mafia recuitable.

 

[lokiduck]

Just thinking, but Popola and Devola are pretty reluctant about helping both sides. It would be interesting if they were mafia recuitable.

oooh yeah that might be a good idea. I was humoring them being neutral but that makes even more sense.

 

[Verelios]

I think before getting down into who's who, we can ballpark how many people are going to be playing so we know where to demarcate how many NPCs we want. Although I'm already loving that fisher role. It would be cool if there were some RNG elements to that too.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah I can agree with that, we can use some of the NPCs we don't use as fake claims so that works at least.

Using RNG elements for the fisher role might be a good idea. Maybe depending on how good the role is determines what he actually catches aka a vague hint vs a full on "it is probably totally this role".

 

[lokiduck]

I feel like if we make the fisherman the Role Fisher, he'll basically be one of our cops so we want to make him a decent one that can also get meh results, especially if we give him more than a few shots. Having towns folk that throw off his shots might be good too as it'll weaken the role.

 

[lokiduck]

Now will Devola and Popola start out as town until they are recruited? Because if they are then we can count them as part of our starting town number.

I'm trying to figure out how many players we'd want and as I said above we want a decent amount especially if we have three neutrals in the game.

 

[lokiduck]

I'm leaning towards maybe 12 to 15 players??? 3 neutral (Two of which are just trying to survive and 1 that can leave), 4 scum plus two recruits, and 6 town (8 if the recruits are never picked up)?

 

[Verelios]

Yeah, that sounds cool. For Yonah, I'm not sure if she'd be better as a mechanic or player. I feel it depends on what we want to do with her, though like you said IC is interesting. There could even be demerits for both sides if she dies. It would be nice if there's a mechanic involving her that flips alignment names (it wouldn't really change anything mechanics wise) after a certain condition is met to mirror a route B type of situation.

Although, I'm just thinking, how do you feel about abilities that are unlocked after another character dies? Like Facades king getting a new ability if Fyra died, but not vice versa.

 

[Verelios]

I'm leaning towards maybe 12 to 15 players??? 3 neutral (Two of which are just trying to survive and 1 that can leave), 4 scum plus two recruits, and 6 town (8 if the recruits are never picked up)?

That seems a bit low for town even with Devola and Popola.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah depending on how we spin it, we may want to not even include Yonah as a PC, but I do really like the idea of both sides getting affected if she dies (Maybe Shadowlord at least is affected) The alignment flipping is a really cool idea. :o

I already suggested that Gideon should get his power if his brother dies, so having it happen for other pairs might be neat. Like one sided rewards.

It could def happen with Hansel and Gretel as well, and maybe even the twins?

That seems a bit low for town even with Devola and Popola.

Then maybe we should up the number of players to include more NPCs, that or limite the size of scum.

 

[Verelios]

I really like the Roc Win-Con being killing the King of Facade. To make it easier maybe have it so he gets stronger or weaker by killing Fyra instead? Although if we do it like Pedro said and make him a lyncher that might not be necessary, though I'm wondering if he would need some investigative tools to help find the King.

 

[Verelios]

Yeah depending on how we spin it, we may want to not even include Yonah as a PC, but I do really like the idea of both sides getting affected if she dies (Maybe Shadowlord at least is affected) The alignment flipping is a really cool idea. :o

I already suggested that Gideon should get his power if his brother dies, so having it happen for other pairs might be neat. Like one sided rewards.

It could def happen with Hansel and Gretel as well, and maybe even the twins?

Then maybe we should up the number of players to include more NPCs, that or limite the size of scum.

That's a hard decision. Personally, I like small games because they're easy to keep track of but big games also have a lot of allure just off of how unexpected things can get.

How do you feel about a game size that's 15-20 players?

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah the more I thought about it, the more I wanted to make Roc's win con just killing the king especially if we make Fyra the sacrificial bodyguard as she'll basically be a foil for him to prevent an easy win for him. Him getting weaker if he hits her instead seems interesting, but I do like the idea of him having an investigative power

Ooooh maybe he's able to recognize the scent of people from Facade. He can sniff out a player and get a result of Facade or not. In that case we should def add the adviser as a third foil.

 

[lokiduck]

That's a hard decision. Personally, I like small games because they're easy to keep track of but big games also have a lot of allure just off of how unexpected things can get.

How do you feel about a game size that's 15-20 players?

That's sounds perfect personally. As it gives us the extra wiggle room we need to allow for important NPCs, the Scum can hide among.

Let me figure out those numbers on each side then.

 

[Verelios]

Yeah, I like that role. And Facade having three people is just enough to challenge the investigation.

 

[lokiduck]

Roster:

1. Nier
2. Kaine
3. Emil
4. Weiss
5. Yonah?
6. Fisherman
7. King of Facade
8. Fyra
9. Neun
10. ???
11. ???
12. Devola
13. Popola
14. Beepy
15. Kalil
16. Roc
17. Shadowlord
18. Noir
19. Hansel
20. Gretel

So that leaves us with 2-3 roles (if we don't keep Yonah as a PC) that need to be filled for town. Who do you want out of the named NPCs from the game? XD

 

[Verelios]

Hm, maybe some representation from the junkyard like Jimmy?

Or the old lady with a letter sidequest?

Uh...could sleeping beauty be considered town?

 

[lokiduck]

I was considering the old lady from the Lighthouse partly because her sidequest is one of the most well known ones, I'm just not sure what power we'd give her unless we make her vanilla.

I was considering Sleeping beauty as town in the "If he shades are town" scenario and giving a power related to putting people asleep (I guess like a role blocker), but I'm not sure.

As I said above we could include the two junkyard brothers Jaykob and gideon or Hans the postman, because everyone remembers Hans right??? XD

 

[lokiduck]

i'm currently trying to figure out the protective roles for Town.

Fyra is turning out to be one, and we'll have Beepy as a neutral as well doing protective work, but I feel like we need one extra role since Fyra will die if she actually protects someone (speaking of do we want that to happen when she protects any person or just the king?)

 

[lokiduck]

Out of the characters we have picked for town... I could honestly see Nier possibly having a protective role that blocks kills or Emil possibly as a doctor type role.

On the scum side, Noir feels like the best candidate for being the role blocker as he uses his magic to do it.

With Hansel and Gretel, one has the shield while the other a weapon so maybe one is a protective role for scum (BP maybe) while the other is an offensive role?

 

[Verelios]

It would make sense for it to be just the King she sacrifices herself for.

What about a doctor btw?
Fyra as BG, Beepy as BP...that's catchy, and someone else as Doc

 

[Verelios]

Out of the characters we have picked for town... I could honestly see Nier possibly having a protective role that blocks kills or Emil possibly as a doctor type role.

On the scum side, Noir feels like the best candidate for being the role blocker as he uses his magic to do it.

With Hansel and Gretel, one has the shield while the other a weapon so maybe one is a protective role for scum (BP maybe) while the other is an offensive role?

Yeah, Hansel and Gretel could be scum Strongman and scum RB.

As for ShadowLord/Noir, only being RB seems a bit too normal.

 

[lokiduck]

That seems a bit low for town even with Devola and Popola.

It would make sense for it to be just the King she sacrifices herself for.

What about a doctor btw?
Fyra as BG, Beepy as BP...that's catchy, and someone else as Doc

Okay sounds good on Fyra then. We'll just specify that in the Role PM.

What about Emil? I considered Weiss but his magic is mostly offensive.

Yeah, Hansel and Gretel could be scum Strongman and scum RB.

As for ShadowLord/Noir, only being RB seems a bit too normal.

Yeah you are right, RB and Strongman for Hansel and Gretel sounds great.

 

[Verelios]

What do you think of making Nier's PR based on his weapon and magic config? If it's weapons then make him a 1 or 2 shot JOAT with 3 different abilities.

Or we can go even weirder and make it magic based, with the player drawing preset letters or words to make up abilities that are essentially a JOAT but randomised. To keep it balanced there would have to be a limited amount of permutations, like 4 or 5.

 

[lokiduck]

Okay Idea, I'm going to make another thread at will list all the current flavors and their roles they have. I can edit it as we update the roster.

 

[lokiduck]

What do you think of making Nier's PR based on his weapon and magic config? If it's weapons then make him a 1 or 2 shot JOAT with 3 different abilities.

Or we can go even weirder and make it magic based, with the player drawing preset letters or words to make up abilities that are essentially a JOAT but randomised. To keep it balanced there would have to be a limited amount of permutations, like 4 or 5.

Oh that sounds awesome, I like that idea a lot especially using magic for it with the words.

 

[Verelios]

Okay sounds good on Fyra then. We'll just specify that in the Role PM.

What about Emil? I considered Weiss but his magic is mostly offensive.



Yeah you are right, RB and Strongman for Hansel and Gretel sounds great.

Emil is interesting as Doc. Although I really want to him to have a despair inducing transformation midgame, that seems hard to implement. Maybe doc is best.

 

[Verelios]

Oh that sounds awesome, I like that idea a lot especially using magic for it with the words.

Great. It's a lot harder to come up with something for Shadowlord because I always jump speared him to death before he had a chance to do anything, haha.

 

[lokiduck]

If we do your idea with the alignment flipping then we could maybe fit in Emil transforming but I'm not sure how. XD

Waittttt if we go with pre transformed Emil then that means he has his Paralysis power... so it could be explained that he's blocking kills via stunning the enemy???

Also I was trying to figure out at one point in the story this all happens, but we could do it pre time skip probably. Fyra still admires the King at this point.

 

[lokiduck]

Great. It's a lot harder to come up with something for Shadowlord because I always jump speared him to death before he had a chance to do anything, haha.

Very nice... I was wondering if we wanted him to have a similarity to Nier though I personally think we should leave out who he really is to prevent too many spoilers.

 

[Verelios]

If we do your idea with the alignment flipping then we could maybe fit in Emil transforming but I'm not sure how. XD

Waittttt if we go with pre transformed Emil then that means he has his Paralysis power... so it could be explained that he's blocking kills via stunning the enemy???

Also I was trying to figure out at one point in the story this all happens, but we could do it pre time skip probably. Fyra still admires the King at this point.

Yeah, pre-time skip sounds good. As for Emil, he might be good as a RB kind of character. Do you think he should be 1 shot BP considering his history?

Very nice... I was wondering if we wanted him to have a similarity to Nier though I personally think we should leave out who he really is to prevent too many spoilers.

Good point. It might be interesting to have SL also be a JOAT, it just depends on what kind.

 

[lokiduck]

Made the roster. https://www.outermafia.com/index.php?threads/388/

We'll update as needed.

We just need to figure out the remaining two townies.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah, pre-time skip sounds good. As for Emil, he might be good as a RB kind of character. Do you think he should be 1 shot BP considering his history?


Good point. It might be interesting to have SL also be a JOAT, it just depends on what kind.

Yeah I could get behind Emil being a RB with a 1 shot BP. in that case we don't need a doc then.

Oooh yeah SL could totally be a JOAT, it's just that unlike Nier he gets a present list of powers.

 

[lokiduck]

Fun facts: my Party Shuffle decided to play Nier: Automata soundtrack right at this moment.

Earlier it played one from Nier: Gestalt.

 

[Verelios]

Seeing that made me think about the King of Facade. How about if he starts off vanilla and becomes a Vig depending on of Fyra dies?

Yeah I could get behind Emil being a RB with a 1 shot BP. in that case we don't need a doc then.

Oooh yeah SL could totally be a JOAT, it's just that unlike Nier he gets a present list of powers.

Yessss

 

[Verelios]

Fun facts: my Party Shuffle decided to play Nier: Automata soundtrack right at this moment.

Earlier it played one from Nier: Gestalt.

Personally like Gestalts OST more because of the Piano/strings variation of SL and Grandma but Automata has great pieces. I also have it on rotation, haha.

 

[lokiduck]

Seeing that made me think about the King of Facade. How about if he starts off vanilla and becomes a Vig depending on of Fyra dies?


Yessss

Yesssss I really like that for him as it's perfectly fitting.

Them both being JOAT's is our hint that they are similar. XD

 

[lokiduck]

Personally like Gestalts OST more because of the Piano/strings variation of SL and Grandma but Automata has great pieces. I also have it on rotation, haha.

I Gestalt more as well, but some of the remixes were amazing and "A beautiful Song" always kills me with how gorgeous it is.

 

[lokiduck]

So we need to still figure out... Weiss, Neun (King's adviser), the two missing townies and Noir.

 

[lokiduck]

Also are you fine with Yonah being a beloved Princess if we include her?

 

[lokiduck]

Right so the two remaining townies...

This is pre-time skip so Gideon will still be young but maybe we could have the brothers still wanting to take out robots like Beepy?

Or we should include two more notable town NPCs like the old lady or Sebastian (Emil's Butler) to help with the fake names.

I do like the idea of maybe including sleeping Beauty... i'm just not sure how. Speaking of the forest of myth, there is the mayor in that town as well. He's like the only person we actually see. XD

What we don't use we should include as fake names for scum as we only need 4.

 

[lokiduck]

I'm looking over possible roles for Neun and I fell like he might be good for a communicative role since his job was literally to advise the king and make sure the rules of Facade were enforced. Would it make sense to maybe have him be able to communicate with the King? We could make them essentially mason's except flavor it as "The court of Facade: Where Facade's Citizens meet" except Fyra is excluded from it because she isn't allowed to talk hence why she is kept separate from her king.

 

[lokiduck]

So straight from the Nier Wiki:

Sleeping Beauty is a strange tree that shows dreams of death to the inhabitants of the Forest of Myth. Its true identity is that of a huge network computer that runs on the demonic element and it drops hints suggestively telling of truth. It works to keep the web of memories that has been torn apart following the destruction of the world.

I'm humoring the idea of making Sleeping Beauty an investigative role. Maybe SB can look through the data base for hints about the players she wish to investigate but only gets info in the form of fragmented memories and hints that may in fact be exaggerated or false. However since SB literally takes the form of a tree, i'm not sure how we'd handle them as a player. Like do they get a vote still???

One idea is the mayor is the player, but SB is the power but that doesn't really fit how it occurs in the game since he wasn't able to control his dreams.

 

[lokiduck]

If we have Kaine as an outsider then technically we need an alignment cop to misread her technically but maybe all the hints the role fisher gets about her are bad, and similar could apply to SB?

 

[lokiduck]

Also we need the twins to be recruitable so maybe as long as SL is alive he always has the ability to attempt an recruit if he isn't going to do the kill or uses one of his JOAT abilities?

 

[lokiduck]

Idea: We include one Brother but not the other, again to help scum with hiding behind a fake claim that seems realistic enough. Additionally by having Neun and the King being the citizens of Facade, this may lead them to being suspicious of Fyra should she flavor claim. Funnily enough Roc is someone who can back up her claim.

Correction on something: If we got that way with Neun and the King not knowing about Fyra, then maybe we only tell the King he's a potential vig. based on the right condition??? Or we just scratch that whole idea of them not knowing.

 

[Pedro]

Gosh, so many new posts lol

I'll say first that 6 scummies for a roster of 20 players is too much. The rule of thumb that's used is to give scum 20 to 25% of the roster size. And 2 Mafia recruits will make a lot of people mad because they can't trust who's Town and who's not :x

Likewise, 3 neutrals in a 20-player game is too much. Town needs help in numbers to win the game, and considering the Serial Killer is an anti-town Neutral, that's a lot of obstacles.

 

[lokiduck]

Oh hello Shadowlord's Castle playing on my party shuffle. What a fitting time to play.

 

[lokiduck]

Gosh, so many new posts lol

I'll say first that 6 scummies for a roster of 20 players is too much. The rule of thumb that's used is to give scum 20 to 25% of the roster size. And 2 Mafia recruits will make a lot of people mad because they can't trust who's Town and who's not :x

Likewise, 3 neutrals in a 20-player game is too much. Town needs help in numbers to win the game, and considering the Serial Killer is an anti-town Neutral, that's a lot of obstacles.

In that case who do you propose we cut?

One idea though is that we could combine the twins into one role which opens up one more town slot to town.

 

[lokiduck]

Additionally maybe combine Kalil and Beepy... their win con is survival so maybe make him only able to self protect with limited shots?

Town should be fine still with Emil and Fyra especially if Nier gets a protective power as the JOAT.

 

[lokiduck]

Random idea, if we do the forest of Myth Mayor he has narcolepsy because SB keeps putting him to sleep, for a certain amount of time (both during night and day phases but for reasonable amounts so he isn't completely out of the game) he can't do anything and in exchange he gets a hint about a player of his choosing through a dream. The dream will be cryptic as well.

 

[lokiduck]

Even crazier idea: the dreams are based on posts from spec. chat. (Probably not doing this one)

 

[Pedro]

I think Shadowlord, Noir, Hansel, and Gretel already make a good team (though if Gretel is a Strongman, I'd add a Doctor to the Town side; that role doesn't make sense in a setup unless there are protection roles for it to bypass).
Also, let me say I really dig both Niers being JOATs <3

I like putting both Kalil and Beepy into a single role in the setup, and Survivor works wonderfully for them.
And I like this version of Roc better, the one that doesn't kill but investigates to know who's from Facade and then can try in the game to throw suspicion on that player so they can get eliminated.

---

What do you mean when you say Kainé is an "Outsider"? I don't know that role.

 

[lokiduck]

I think Shadowlord, Noir, Hansel, and Gretel already make a good team (though if Gretel is a Strongman, I'd add a Doctor to the Town side; that role doesn't make sense in a setup unless there are protection roles for it to bypass).
Also, let me say I really dig both Niers being JOATs <3

I like putting both Kalil and Beepy into a single role in the setup, and Survivor works wonderfully for them.
And I like this version of Roc better, the one that doesn't kill but investigates to know who's from Facade and then can try in the game to throw suspicion on that player so they can get eliminated.

---

What do you mean when you say Kainé is an "Outsider"? I don't know that role.

Okay then in that case why don't we just make the twins actual NPCs using one of them for the example Role PM (Lol we can make Devola a Singer https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Singer)? That way we can keep the plot twist about them secret and have them be helpful still as our voice for the flavor.

If you think that we need a doc, then who would you prefer for the role as we previous discussed Emil though Weiss still doesn't have a role.

In that case should Kalil and Beepy just being survivors or should they also have like a 1 shot BP?

Yeah I'm really liking how Roc has turned out. He was my inspiration for the whole thing, so I really want him to be good.

What I mean is that Kaine is basically a Miller (The mafia wiki also calls them outsider which i prefer in this case). If a cop were to check her, she'd come up as scum which fits pretty good.

 

[lokiduck]

Updated the roster to remove the twins BTW. We need to fill four town spots and find powers for the two books. XD

With that many slots I'd say we should def add at least one of the brothers.

Also what do you think of the advisor and King being masons, and SB possibly being an investigative role?

OOOH wait that's actually 5 spots as we are combining two neutrals.

 

[lokiduck]

While I really like the idea of Kaine being an outsider, I kind of wonder if we should give her something besides that. The outsider thing could be a passive on her that's the negative while she's something like a vigilante.

 

[Pedro]

Okay then in that case why don't we just make the twins actual NPCs using one of them for the example Role PM (Lol we can make Devola a Singer https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Singer)? That way we can keep the plot twist about them secret and have them be helpful still as our voice for the flavor.

Yup, that works ^^ Just one thing, the sample PMs are always vanilla townies so it works as a baseline for everyone.

If you think that we need a doc, then who would you prefer for the role as we previous discussed Emil though Weiss still doesn't have a role.

Sebastian could be the "Doctor", as he does protect and does everything for Emil.

In that case should Kalil and Beepy just being survivors or should they also have like a 1 shot BP?

That will depend on how the roster looks after all is done. If there are multiple roles that kill at night then the BP would be nice. If it's just the Mafia killing, then not as necessary.

Yeah I'm really liking how Roc has turned out. He was my inspiration for the whole thing, so I really want him to be good.

<3

What I mean is that Kaine is basically a Miller (The mafia wiki also calls them outsider which i prefer in this case). If a cop were to check her, she'd come up as scum which fits pretty good.

Ahh, I get you now! Yup, that works for her. But then now we need an Alignment Cop in the setup so that makes sense. The King's Advisor could be that role, with him checking if someone broke Façade's rules, labeling them as criminals if so.

 

[Pedro]

The remaining townies could be Hans, Halua, Jakob, Ursula, and then Sebastian as the Doc??

edit: or maybe lesser characters like Jakob's mom and the dude that ran away with her, so we could save some fake claims for scum.

 

[lokiduck]

Yup, that works ^^ Just one thing, the sample PMs are always vanilla townies so it works as a baseline for everyone.

Yeah I realized that after I made that joke.

Sebastian could be the "Doctor", as he does protect and does everything for Emil.

Oooh right that's a good fit for him, thought I'm laughing a little bit because it seems some of our better roles are going towards the more minor characters.

That will depend on how the roster looks after all is done. If there are multiple roles that kill at night then the BP would be nice. If it's just the Mafia killing, then not as necessary.

Okay in that case I'll leave them as survivors for now. Might need to consider it if we have too many vig's but we'll see.

Ahh, I get you now! Yup, that works for her. But then now we need an Alignment Cop in the setup so that makes sense. The King's Advisor could be that role, with him checking if someone broke Façade's rules, labeling them as criminals if so.

Oh that's a great idea actually and fits him pretty good. That'd make him and technically our fisherman as the cops which again is hilarious.

The remaining townies could be Hans, Halua, Jakob, Ursula, and then Sebastian as the Doc??

edit: or maybe lesser characters like Jakob's mom and the dude that ran away with her, so we could save some fake claims for scum.

I wasn't sure about Halua considering her role in the story of Nier, but maybe we could include her if we keep her actual info out. Also I feel bad for not knowing the Lighthouse lady was Ursula.

Who should we have as fake flavors then?

 

[Verelios]

While I really like the idea of Kaine being an outsider, I kind of wonder if we should give her something besides that. The outsider thing could be a passive on her that's the negative while she's something like a vigilante.

If we're going to make Kaine a miller then we probably need a cop on town's side. I do like the negative utility and would be down for something that could be potentially suspicious. Vig however gives me pause, because then we'd have to think about how many protective roles we need.

 

[lokiduck]

If we decide to not include Halua, then the mayor of the forest of mystery with a different power is possible.

 

[lokiduck]

If we're going to make Kaine a miller then we probably need a cop on town's side. I do like the negative utility and would be down for something that could be potentially suspicious. Vig however gives me pause, because then we'd have to think about how many protective roles we need.

Oh okay in that case what power do you think would fit her?

We are probably making the advisor the alignment cop.

 

[Verelios]

The remaining townies could be Hans, Halua, Jakob, Ursula, and then Sebastian as the Doc??

edit: or maybe lesser characters like Jakob's mom and the dude that ran away with her, so we could save some fake claims for scum.

I like sebastian as doctor, that's a good direction.

 

[Verelios]

Oh okay in that case what power do you think would fit her?

Drawing a blank but a PR which could be beneficial for town while also raising suspicion if they role claimed in thread.

 

[lokiduck]

Okay then we'll have to think on that because honestly we need a role that fits Kaine pretty good. Besides that, we still got to figure out the two books and the new town roles besides Hans because duh he's the mailman and can send messages at night (a communative role can both help and annoy town XD)

 

[lokiduck]

What role is the scum team missing currently that would fit Noir?

 

[Verelios]

Random idea, if we do the forest of Myth Mayor he has narcolepsy because SB keeps putting him to sleep, for a certain amount of time (both during night and day phases but for reasonable amounts so he isn't completely out of the game) he can't do anything and in exchange he gets a hint about a player of his choosing through a dream. The dream will be cryptic as well.

Hmmm, it worries me a bit by limiting their day phase durations but the dream hint PR is very good. It just occured to me, and then I thought it was too strong, was to give him even or odd night commuter, where he picks the person on the initial night and (commutes) dreams during the next one.

But that's way too much town protection.

 

[lokiduck]

Hmmm, it worries me a bit by limiting their day phase durations but the dream hint PR is very good. It just occured to me, and then I thought it was too strong, was to give him even or odd night commuter, where he picks the person on the initial night and (commutes) dreams during the next one.

But that's way too much town protection.

Yeah that sounds like a good idea, but we do have a lot of protection running around.

I relooked up Halua's story on the wiki and the main thing that seems to fit her is a protective role because she ended up doing what she did to protect Emil, but again we got too many of those right now.

Oh what if the mayor can randomly talk with other players in his dreams or something? For whatever reason SB connects him to them at night and they get a night chat? Basically a different flavor version of a gossip.

 

[Verelios]

What role is the scum team missing currently that would fit Noir?

Let me think...

JOAT
RB
SK

It's kind of hard. I thought about lightning rod but that isn't fair. In OW mafia we had a team wide 1 shot protect yet with a RB that seems weird.

 

[Verelios]

Yeah that sounds like a good idea, but we do have a lot of protection running around.

I relooked up Halua's story on the wiki and the main thing that seems to fit her is a protective role because she ended up doing what she did to protect Emil, but again we got too many of those right now.

Oh what if the mayor can randomly talk with other players in his dreams or something? For whatever reason SB connects him to them at night and they get a night chat? Basically a different flavor version of a gossip.

I like that. But would it be directed or randomized?

 

[lokiduck]

Let me think...

JOAT
RB
SK

It's kind of hard. I thought about lightning rod but that isn't fair. In OW mafia we had a team wide 1 shot protect yet with a RB that seems weird.

Could a role cop possible work???