Spectator Thread Buffy and CW Spectator Thread

Ty4on

The 4 is silent
I think they ended up in a better position though, depending on how much notice scum take of their claim (apparently they claimed? I missed it)
I'm talking about Gotham and I don't think she has claimed yet. We role copped her N2 and saw she was a JOAT
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
If mafia is dead, Town loses when it no longer controls the vote.

But nintendo don't win either because their win condition is

"You win when a majority of the living players are cultists, or when nothing can prevent this from happening"

But if they already recruited 4 players or no vanilla players remain to recruit a majority of players will never be cultists.

So everyone loses?
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Non-spoiler about Gotham is that she did float a PR claim when someone chose her above Kyan to save a PR and she replied "Irony"
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I kind of hope Town loses both games because outside of a few specific players they’ve played real, real bad.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, I’m not saying they’ve lost - just saying I hope they lose because they’re being carried by a few who are trying and the rest seem ambivalent.
 

cabot

Why.
I feel Buffy is lacking in players that call out bad play.

The stuff hom3 said about not claiming last minute, as well as Nicole not changing her vote from Splinter but she did in the end.


There's also no real attention being given to players who sort of appear in small windows and then go again.

When bad play is suggested, it's just ignored or accepted. We usually have a couple of players who openly quote that stuff and call it out as shit and explain why.


Like why is Stan alive? he's never super active, but this is probably the laziest I've seen him play, and it's pretty much impossible to get a real read of him. He's out of character which I'd probably chase for alone.
 

Splinter

Lord of Volcano Island
Yeah, I’m not saying they’ve lost - just saying I hope they lose because they’re being carried by a few who are trying and the rest seem ambivalent.
I'm not even sure who this refers to apart from Stan. Maybe Turmoil?

Sorian and Ty both posted less than usual but they flipped scum anyway
 

cabot

Why.
Bad play is usually town, it's annoying but it hardly feels worth calling it out.

I think hom3's comments probably affected GoG in claiming, whereas there's no real point to that line of thinking.


Go quietly into the night and flip PR is never a good thing.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Yeah, I’m not saying they’ve lost - just saying I hope they lose because they’re being carried by a few who are trying and the rest seem ambivalent.

For a couple of them I do think it's on purpose due to abilities/roles in Buffy. One in particular is playing rather differently and I think that's why.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I feel Buffy is lacking in players that call out bad play.

The stuff hom3 said about not claiming last minute, as well as Nicole not changing her vote from Splinter but she did in the end.


There's also no real attention being given to players who sort of appear in small windows and then go again.

When bad play is suggested, it's just ignored or accepted. We usually have a couple of players who openly quote that stuff and call it out as shit and explain why.


Like why is Stan alive? he's never super active, but this is probably the laziest I've seen him play, and it's pretty much impossible to get a real read of him. He's out of character which I'd probably chase for alone.

This seems more like strategy advice than an actual complaint.

hom3 is new so any bad ideas they have about what to do is forgivable. Now maybe someone could have explained why holding a claim until the last possible moment is a good strategy but that would only matter if other players were paying attention to what hom3 said.

Nicole might get some heat for switching off splinter when she said she wouldn't and before his claim was confirmed or refuted. But so late in the day it is not something to spend time on. And I always treat "I'm not changing my vote" proclamations as an empty gesture.

Stan is alive because that is how forum mafia works. He deserves more pressure for his lack of play but ultimately there are going to be stronger scum reads in the game than coasting Stan so it is unlikely he is going to get picked up for a lynch by town. Scum have no incentive to kill him either because he isn't a threat either. And ask yourself would you really lynch an inactive player or would you want a flip that gives you more information?
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
If there is a tie between town / cult.
Cult wins

This doesn't seem right.... Town should win because Cult are no longer a threat to reach a majority of the vote. i.e. they can't kill any more town players. And actually the whole debate about killing scum vs killing cult is moot if you look at the town win con

"You win when all Mafia aligned players have been eliminated." So kill Godfather and win.

So from my reading if they kill Godfather (and he is the last scum) Town wins and with 6 players left there is no way cult has reached a majority so they lose.

So cult should be trying to keep Godfather alive so he can kill a town player and cult can be in the majority and win... but Town would also win because all Mafia players are dead.
 

cabot

Why.
Stan is alive because that is how forum mafia works. He deserves more pressure for his lack of play but ultimately there are going to be stronger scum reads in the game than coasting Stan so it is unlikely he is going to get picked up for a lynch by town. Scum have no incentive to kill him either because he isn't a threat either. And ask yourself would you really lynch an inactive player or would you want a flip that gives you more information?

Yes.

They have a margin of error, this is where you lynch inactives.


It's not just inactivity though, Stan is usually pretty easy to read as Town in most games. This one he's not really attempted to engage at all. It's pretty different from other games.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Yes.

They have a margin of error, this is where you lynch inactives.


It's not just inactivity though, Stan is usually pretty easy to read as Town in most games. This one he's not really attempted to engage at all. It's pretty different from other games.

Good luck making an argument that Town should stop their successful scum hunting strategy to take out an inactive. Sounds like a scum ploy to divert attention from their troubles...
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
I'm sure I'll feel better when I wouldn't have inactives at lylo.

A changed man considering this post in Ouro's Invitational the day after we hit (inactive) scum and had built a margin of error.

I mean wasting an inactive is alright at this stage, but it doesn't really help things for later phases.

I'll look at the CCS list.


I still feel Kark is probable scum. I didn't mention the timing thing until now, but it was something I noticed yesterday as it happened.

It is easier to point these things out when removed from the game but in the thick of it most people want to confirm their reads/suspicions rather do some housekeeping cleaning up some lazy players.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I'm not even sure who this refers to apart from Stan. Maybe Turmoil?

Sorian and Ty both posted less than usual but they flipped scum anyway
I’m referring to both games. I’m sure if you glance through the player lists in both you’d see there are quite a few guilty of this. I’m not going to name names and cause hurt feelings though.

For a couple of them I do think it's on purpose due to abilities/roles in Buffy. One in particular is playing rather differently and I think that's why.
But they’re able to do this because ‘the crowd’ is so often those lightly participating at best. I would much rather that be the exception not the norm.

Good luck making an argument that Town should stop their successful scum hunting strategy to take out an inactive. Sounds like a scum ploy to divert attention from their troubles...
Yeah, until you get a game like Zelda Mafia where scum where all players that didn’t even bother to play and they cruised to a victory with very, very little effort put in. Due to our community so often having players that barely participate, to the extent that it’s h realistic to policy lynch that many players as punishment, it ends up resulting in a meta where the strongest scum strategy is to just not play which is frustrating as hell to interact with.
 
This doesn't seem right.... Town should win because Cult are no longer a threat to reach a majority of the vote. i.e. they can't kill any more town players. And actually the whole debate about killing scum vs killing cult is moot if you look at the town win con

"You win when all Mafia aligned players have been eliminated." So kill Godfather and win.

So from my reading if they kill Godfather (and he is the last scum) Town wins and with 6 players left there is no way cult has reached a majority so they lose.

So cult should be trying to keep Godfather alive so he can kill a town player and cult can be in the majority and win... but Town would also win because all Mafia players are dead.
Town loses if the lose control of the Lynch. That is common rules with 2 factions left. Even if the 2nd faction was an independent SK, town loses if it is 2 people left.

Why would the game be over if the scum was lynched? Cult can still win. Town can mislynch itself until Cult has the numbers to win.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Town loses if the lose control of the Lynch. That is common rules with 2 factions left. Even if the 2nd faction was an independent SK, town loses if it is 2 people left.

Why would the game be over if the scum was lynched? Cult can still win. Town can mislynch itself until Cult has the numbers to win.

The way I see it Town should win if town = cult with all mafia dead and all recruitments used since at that point if all town voted No Lynch there would never be a vote to kill and no further deaths is the goal of town.

The specific goal of the Cult is "You win when a majority of the living players are cultists, or when nothing can prevent this from happening"

The bolded is the specific goal and majority means more than half. If the cult never get more than half how can they win?

---

An SK is a threat to town since they can kill town players, that isn't true of this cult. And an SK wins in a 1v1 since the vote outcome is a tie and they have a NK. (although if the other player was a role blocker..)
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Also I was looking at Zelda since Natiko was complaining about it again. And the main problem is town simply didn't have enough players to match a team of 4 mafia and a SK.

But also the win conditions there are screwed. IMO nin should not have won.

2nd last day 5 players
>1 town, 2 scum, 1 SK, 1 item giver
>town lynched
night
>scum kill SK, SK kill scum
last day
> 1 scum , 1 item giver (nin)

Both scum and nin were given the win however these were the win conditions

nin
You are aligned with yourself and win when you survive until the end of the game.

You also have a secondary win condition. If you successfully vend all your items, you will win and be removed from the game.

Nin still had an item remaining to vend on the final day so had not been removed from the game.

scum
You are aligned with mafia and win when the mafia team has a majority (50%+1) of the votes at the start of the Day Phase.

IMO the game mistakenly ended with two players remaining. Scum did not have 50%+1 of the votes. The game should have went to the following night phase where the remaining scum player could have blocked and killed nin to prevent him fulfilling either of his win cons.
 
The way I see it Town should win if town = cult with all mafia dead and all recruitments used since at that point if all town voted No Lynch there would never be a vote to kill and no further deaths is the goal of town.

The specific goal of the Cult is "You win when a majority of the living players are cultists, or when nothing can prevent this from happening"

The bolded is the specific goal and majority means more than half. If the cult never get more than half how can they win?

---

An SK is a threat to town since they can kill town players, that isn't true of this cult. And an SK wins in a 1v1 since the vote outcome is a tie and they have a NK. (although if the other player was a role blocker..)
You are nitpicking the words which were stated a way to not reveal the third party to the game early on.

The cult group for all intents and purposes is another separate mafia group that acts in different ways.

For town to win, the Cult must be eliminated fully. The only way to be eliminated fully is to be lynched out. If town lynches wrong, cult can take over and win.

You are nitpicking the words. I mean, if you are arguing that the host needs to clarify it to the game because people could be confused, I can understand that.
 
My only regret this game was calling out TP! Sorry man, you actually did pretty well in hindsight. Only big mistake was letting me get out my claim first, and kinda fucking yours up, and of course, not focusing on cult.
 
S
Also I was looking at Zelda since Natiko was complaining about it again. And the main problem is town simply didn't have enough players to match a team of 4 mafia and a SK.

But also the win conditions there are screwed. IMO nin should not have won.

2nd last day 5 players
>1 town, 2 scum, 1 SK, 1 item giver
>town lynched
night
>scum kill SK, SK kill scum
last day
> 1 scum , 1 item giver (nin)

Both scum and nin were given the win however these were the win conditions



Nin still had an item remaining to vend on the final day so had not been removed from the game.



IMO the game mistakenly ended with two players remaining. Scum did not have 50%+1 of the votes. The game should have went to the following night phase where the remaining scum player could have blocked and killed nin to prevent him fulfilling either of his win cons.
Scum should never need 50% + 1. I do not even understand that. As soon as you control the lynch you win. If it is 1 - 1 and the 1 is scum vanilla and the other 1 is bulletproof town vig with a shot left. Scum wins. Even though town can shoot him the final day and cannot be killed by mafia, scum still wins.

Edit: Unless the rules are clearly stated as otherwise. I have seen games where scum could control the Lynch and not win due to specifically stated reasoning. Games with SKs and other 3rd parties most common.
 
As for cult win/loss at 50/50, what do you do if none of the remaining town are recruitable? There's definitely issues with the win conditions in this game. Worse is a 5v3town&1scum. Mafia can kill them while they fuck up recruitments and eventually lose.
 

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
My only regret this game was calling out TP! Sorry man, you actually did pretty well in hindsight. Only big mistake was letting me get out my claim first, and kinda fucking yours up, and of course, not focusing on cult.

Hey Palmer :). Been while.
 
As for cult win/loss at 50/50, what do you do if none of the remaining town are recruitable? There's definitely issues with the win conditions in this game. Worse is a 5v3town&1scum. Mafia can kill them while they fuck up recruitments and eventually lose.
If no one is recruitable and there is 4 cult, 4 town and 1 scum. Scum is lynched. No nightkill. 4 cult, 4 town. Town has to eliminate the cult to win. Cult has to control the Lynch to win. 4-4 Cult wins. Town cannot Lynch out the cult.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
We can argue balance all day since it’s somewhat ambiguous and probably never perfect. I just think it’s a bummer when people don’t try or only thinly participate. I know everyone has lives and shit happens, I get it. Just sucks to experience and I’m sure it can be disheartening as a game runner too.
 
If no one is recruitable and there is 4 cult, 4 town and 1 scum. Scum is lynched. No nightkill. 4 cult, 4 town. Town has to eliminate the cult to win. Cult has to control the Lynch to win. 4-4 Cult wins. Town cannot Lynch out the cult.
You assume they know who the mafia is.

Edit Nm I misread though majority should not be used if they win at 50%. Win condition should have been “when no one can achieve majority against you”
 
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Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
You are nitpicking the words which were stated a way to not reveal the third party to the game early on.

The cult group for all intents and purposes is another separate mafia group that acts in different ways.

For town to win, the Cult must be eliminated fully. The only way to be eliminated fully is to be lynched out. If town lynches wrong, cult can take over and win.

You are nitpicking the words. I mean, if you are arguing that the host needs to clarify it to the game because people could be confused, I can understand that.

I'm nitpicking the word MAJORITY which has an exact meaning and is vitally important in Mafia games.
 
Are all mafia players dead?
Godfather is mafia so there's at least 1 left.
If no one is recruitable and there is 4 cult, 4 town and 1 scum. Scum is lynched. No nightkill. 4 cult, 4 town. Town has to eliminate the cult to win. Cult has to control the Lynch to win. 4-4 Cult wins. Town cannot Lynch out the cult.
Since you are here, totally random but mind if I ask you to join the game I'm hosting on Gamefaqs? I need 3 players to start.
 
Also yeah, Godfsther = frisky dingo = palmer_v1

Now that I read the thread, meh. I can’t believe you put in a 4 shot vig who self confirms as well. This whole game woulda been boring as fuck if he had shot cult leader d1 and then been killed n1
 
Other thing I didn’t like is not knowing the NK was recruited the same night, but I guess it makes victory for those players weird
 

cabot

Why.
A changed man considering this post in Ouro's Invitational the day after we hit (inactive) scum and had built a margin of error.



It is easier to point these things out when removed from the game but in the thick of it most people want to confirm their reads/suspicions rather do some housekeeping cleaning up some lazy players.


Was inactive scum One Post Kawl?


What you say is true but I'm saying that's the problem. The community needs to be a little less urgent on finding scum in active players. This is a ongoing theme for ages. I've been guilty of this, but I'm seeing the theme constantly reoccur.

Inactivity itself is fairly scummy, especially if you're active enough to be making post targets, but not much more.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Ty, why is our team making the most basic trash check possible?
 
Was inactive scum One Post Kawl?


What you say is true but I'm saying that's the problem. The community needs to be a little less urgent on finding scum in active players. This is a ongoing theme for ages. I've been guilty of this, but I'm seeing the theme constantly reoccur.

Inactivity itself is fairly scummy, especially if you're active enough to be making post targets, but not much more.
Yup. I rail against it every game but nobody ever wants to policy lynch D1.
 

Sorian

Neutral Ascetic 1-Shot BP SK Alignment Cop
Staff member
Was inactive scum One Post Kawl?


What you say is true but I'm saying that's the problem. The community needs to be a little less urgent on finding scum in active players. This is a ongoing theme for ages. I've been guilty of this, but I'm seeing the theme constantly reoccur.

Inactivity itself is fairly scummy, especially if you're active enough to be making post targets, but not much more.

I still stand by the fact that Kawl's inactivity wasn't inherently scummy. You took a shot in the dark.
 

Ty4on

The 4 is silent
Honestly though, my gut was kinda to just ride out Nicole, but the Gorlak confirm basically confirmed to me she wasn't a veteran
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
I still stand by the fact that Kawl's inactivity wasn't inherently scummy. You took a shot in the dark.

We will argue this forever. We will be too old to type and play forum mafia so let's hope there is VR forum mafia and we will be arguing this. I still like you.

As for that scum check, it makes me laugh, but they are narrowly avoiding being spotted so good on them.
 

Natiko

Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I think it just comes back to the fact that a majority of players tend to coast which results in a majority of scum being coasters as well. This isn’t universally true but more often than not is the case.
 
If you join us in here, Fireblend, sorry I railed at you, but I had a bad feeling the moment you came into the game the way you did. I tried not to let it sway me, but once you ignored the risk of LYLO, I figured you must be a cultist, cause you're not that bad of a townie. Same for your cultist buddy, who I won't name for spoiler purposes.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
It seems to be going okay! Don't get cabot started though; he will yell about stuff and it's my birthday so I'm not here for it, tra la la.
 

Faddy

of, having, or involving transitory whims
Happy Birthday Monkey. Enjoy this hand made gif

na1ngTe.gif
 

Ty4on

The 4 is silent
It's an uphill battle to get those four mislynches, but not impossible. I see maybe seven potential targets.
 

heymonkey

Known Roblox Expert
Staff member
Depressed rac from being lynched first day is the highlight of the spec thread for me.
poor rac <3 ALSO, LONG LIVE LARRY

Happy Birthday Monkey. Enjoy this hand made gif

na1ngTe.gif
l o v e i t

Happy Birthday Monkey! And RIP Gorlak, you played great.

A shame it may not matter since he made himself an easy lynch to push by being so flippant.
I know. Ugh, turmoil whyyyyy

He messaged me and his idea wasn't bad but he kinda botched it. I can't say anything to him though.
 

Lone_Prodigy

Am I at 10 posts yet?
Also I was looking at Zelda since Natiko was complaining about it again. And the main problem is town simply didn't have enough players to match a team of 4 mafia and a SK.

But also the win conditions there are screwed. IMO nin should not have won.

2nd last day 5 players
>1 town, 2 scum, 1 SK, 1 item giver
>town lynched
night
>scum kill SK, SK kill scum
last day
> 1 scum , 1 item giver (nin)

Both scum and nin were given the win however these were the win conditions



Nin still had an item remaining to vend on the final day so had not been removed from the game.



IMO the game mistakenly ended with two players remaining. Scum did not have 50%+1 of the votes. The game should have went to the following night phase where the remaining scum player could have blocked and killed nin to prevent him fulfilling either of his win cons.

Uh, Sawneeks can answer this one.
 

Ty4on

The 4 is silent
if that's the case why not just lynch gotham then?
kinda random, kinda felt better to leave her alive lol

I felt like you wouldn't take up discussion as much. You'd be settled, possibly town read later
 

rac

whatever
damnit monkey you just reminded me i didn't get to drink post one time

include where are you?? i need you to save town
 

Sawneeks

little green dog
Blarglak stealing Gorlak's avatar actually got me for a bit. Was so confused as to why Gorlak was still posting and why he was talking so strange...

Uh, Sawneeks can answer this one.

Throw me under the bus why don't ya. :p

Honestly I do remember a conversation between Hecht and I about the Win Con and how the final Night Phase went down but I don't remember a lot of the details. Pretty sure it revolved around the Survivor Win Con of Nin's role to simply survive until the End Game though, something to do with 2 players constituting 'End Game' but that's all I can recall. But Faddy is technically right, given Scum's Win Con he really shouldn't have won since Scum didn't control the majority of votes. Can't do much about it now though.

I re-read Zelda for fun and realized it's been a year since that ended. Time flies!

Can't believe it's already been a year since we ran that. Time really does fly...

You still up for Zelda Mafia 2? Now featuring a not-broken Win Con?
 

cabot

Why.
I haven't paid any attention to your game so far. Did cabot and i fuck the balance or is it going ok? If the former, it's cabot's fault.

It's no longer her birthday so complaining time.


We had to last minute balance change since monkey expanded the player list when some folk didnt get their game choice in the sign ups.



Looking at it now, it may have been too little Killing Powers added, but I guess we'll see.
 
hey everyone, thanks for the warm words

I fucked up with skipping LP's D1... can't even recall why I didn't look at it. I never mentioned Blarg to anyone, but he definitely knew something about me, just look at his posts. Was going to call him out and expect some info today, otherwise he's scum.
 
Why do I have scum chat access? That kinda spoiled the game for me :( Might as well jump into the thread now.
 

cabot

Why.
You should've just waited till day start and shot twice.

I didn't realize until re-reading your PM a while in that you had the choice to day shoot twice, thought it was one night one day.
 
@cabot - I wanted to use at least one shot in case I died...
spoiler heavy grousing:
if they kill our vig without a single shot used, I shall be very put out

Gorlak and Fran kind of are too but they are both known for tunneling weird shit so as long as I keep pushing there, most will just blow it off as noise.
Yeah, seemed like the right choice there :p

The spoiler contains scum not revealed yet:
I mean, boy I'd sure love to end Gorlak
yep
AHAHAHAHAHA <3
 
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