Spectator Thread Chain of Sleep Dream Drop Re:Coded Over Two Days Union Fragmentary Deep Dive Point Final Mix HD
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
Kingdom Hearts isn't that good. :D
Now that that's out of the way, I am here to root for my friend, Z-Beat, because he is going to win. :D
I'm also here toshitpostchat with my friend, nin. :D
Fun times! :D
Tell your friend that they need to make an Outer Mafia account or the game will never begin :P.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Just PM'd him on Discord so he'll see it soon probably.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Ok, he said he just made one now. :D
CrimsonFist
Neutral Vanilla
Feel like we got away from No Lynch arguments seasons ago, and now it's back in full force.
In a couple of seasons I guess we'll have peeking/no peeking back.
In a couple of seasons I guess we'll have peeking/no peeking back.
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Not sure what to make of this talk about a No Lynch on D1.
I do agree his responses seems odd compared to some of the others though, especially with the vote being followed by some seemingly-faux-concern posts.
Hmm, I think I want to see if anyone circles back to this, as you put it, "NAI dead end" later on in D1 once other things are being discussed.
I do agree his responses seems odd compared to some of the others though, especially with the vote being followed by some seemingly-faux-concern posts.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Red_V2 is interesting to me. I usually filter people who want to no lynch as vanilla town because it is kind of towny to talk about not lynching and they are not denying themselves information for the role. e.g. if someone is a cop they would want a day 1 lynch to have something to base their check off of.
But this is role madness so Red_V2 isn't doing this as an ordinary town. (unless he is because there is always 1 vanilla in role madness....)
Fandorin's opening post is a yikes. I did not expect that tone from his as town. The joke was enough imo. Then if you read Brazil's response it is very pockety. Both aren't mafia together imo.
But this is role madness so Red_V2 isn't doing this as an ordinary town. (unless he is because there is always 1 vanilla in role madness....)
Fandorin's opening post is a yikes. I did not expect that tone from his as town. The joke was enough imo. Then if you read Brazil's response it is very pockety. Both aren't mafia together imo.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Nicole feels to me very much like she did at the end of GoT right now. Being kind of over the top with reactions to things in the thread and hopping in with some interrogations.
And why are people saying that the No Lynch talk is inherently scummy? Gorlak has called it NAI, Faddy said he would normally consider it vanilla-towny on D1, why are there people in the thread saying it's automatically scummy though? That seems like something I would want to question if I were playing.
And why are people saying that the No Lynch talk is inherently scummy? Gorlak has called it NAI, Faddy said he would normally consider it vanilla-towny on D1, why are there people in the thread saying it's automatically scummy though? That seems like something I would want to question if I were playing.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I think it is towny because people would automatically question it. It adds an unnecessary spotlight to someone. However it does depend on the person who suggests it. I don't think Red_V2 wants that kind of spotlight since he is an easy lynch. Now if coolestspot did it then that doesn't tell me anything because he could do anything as either alignment.
The people in the game read it scummy because either
a) they are scum and it is an easy push (look at me, I'm solving)
b) they are town and think the person is struggling to think of something else to post (make better posts)
Or most likely they don't actually think it is scummy and want to use it to try and build something in the game. Stuart's vote is a pretty simple move in that he calls Red scum to see who else is willing to back that read or push back on it.
Is Red_V2 new or just an unfamiliar name to me same with z-beat? Gyrvan I know the name but have no real sense of him as a player.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Here is my Nicole meta. She likes to lie and rarely does things in a straight forward way. She can get very worked up in the game if things are going against her. However she is still really learning mafia so that isn't something I would really hold onto. Being too logical and reasonable if town is doing badly is probably a scum tell for her in my mind.
I'm not alignment reading anything she is doing now.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Any thoughts on Nicole and Stuart's interaction there? I'm guessing she's asking for his thought on that post because he's the one who placed a vote on Red. Stu responds saying that it's "mostly a nothing post" but ending by saying "it feels scummish". Feels like he's giving his real thoughts first and then tacking on a reason for his vote still being there at the end by calling it scummish. Not sure what that means, but that's what I'm seeing there.
I'm not actually scum reading her for anything here yet, just thought her phrasing there was kind of funny because it could be read as her calling her own post scummy lol. Otherwise I was just making note of some things about how she seems to be playing so far.
Idk about Red, but I met Z-Beat through Pirate Bae earlier this year. We play Overwatch and some other games together. He said he's played a few Mafia games back on GAF but that he hasn't played any yet on Era.
Yeah, that describes what she was doing at the end of GoT pretty well. I feel like she quickly became very sure of both herself and the game situation, even though it was clearly a dire one.
I'm not actually scum reading her for anything here yet, just thought her phrasing there was kind of funny because it could be read as her calling her own post scummy lol. Otherwise I was just making note of some things about how she seems to be playing so far.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Brazil bringing up a good point, idk what Ezekial was trying to say there either about Fandorin's post influencing him to consider a No Lynch. He literally concluded by saying they should lynch, and Ezekial claims that made him consider a No Lynch instead? Like, what? Why are people being so suspect lol.
Red_V2 said:
Which is the first part of Fandorin's answer before he says "we gotta use town's main weapon, the lynch."Fandorin said:
I can definitely see how Ezekel came to his line of thought, however he seems to be misunderstood very often. There was no push and this is a witch hunt.
People like to gang on no lynchers because it's so "oh so dumb" position to take. Scumreading players for it is just a way to supress their point of view.
Role madness d1 is a stellar opportunity for no lynch. They'd have enough pieces to pick a night action right now.
Let me predict how this day will play out: they continue to push Red and Zeke, midway a new contender comes up because of a bad post. 30 minutes before deadline the top candidate will claim doctor (it's always the doctor) and people swerve to candidate two. Another claim, either ppl believe it and lynch #3 or continue to lynch #2.
The whole discussion is NAI. People have their opinion about no lynch, the meta is set. Scumreading someone for arguments one way or another is not expedient. However influencing the discussion around it and pushing people for it, is something to look into (looking at you Stu)
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I threw around a few "side-eyes" during GoT. I specifically remember a post where I said I had 3 side-eyes on someone even though I only have 2 eyes.
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
Re: Giving scum safe roles to claim.
This was bit tricky. Mass claiming could have potentially lead to at least few of the scum being lynched, so I gave them few safe roles to claim. But this also gives scum info that these safe roles are not in the game. So the information that scum have safe roles was made public to the game thread.
This was bit tricky. Mass claiming could have potentially lead to at least few of the scum being lynched, so I gave them few safe roles to claim. But this also gives scum info that these safe roles are not in the game. So the information that scum have safe roles was made public to the game thread.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Stu's early vote on Red does seem to have influenced the discussion a lot even if he hasn't been a part of it as much as the others have, which is kind of interesting to me.
yeah, we're in yikes state right now with that.
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
To be bair, now only one is under that line.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I think there will be action with a few hours to go until end of day. That is becoming a bit of thing in our community, that people only really post as deadlines approach. Even in Monopoly Mafia the first 24 hours of a phase were quiet after the initial buzz on the start of day.
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
To be fair, this game also has less players than Monopoly did.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Yeah that makes activity even tougher if a few people are MIA until deadline.
No votes from Red_V2 or Zeke yet. This has been a tough day to parse.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I still don't like these votes on Red, what the heck was that from Nicole just now? IIRC, she had said earlier she was very sure of her vote on FinalBeta, and now just "eh, not my first choice, but sure, I'll vote Red too I suppose." He's clearly getting voted out, Zeke said he only took his off to avoid it being hammered through. she didn't need to move her vote there.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Yep, there's the flip. I am very suspicious right now lol. I would never have voted for Red there. D2 I would be questioning the shit out of that little "survival pact" between FinalBeta and Zeke, as well as questioning Nicole and Z-Beat for their votes on Red. I would also start questioning Fandorin over the weird-ass posts he was making at the EoD there, and I'd also have some questions for Brazil about his EoD activity too.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
1-shot Double Voter. Might as well be vanilla.
That is probably my 1 good read for the game.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Eh, like I said, I would never have put a vote on you there, so I wouldn't say it was all on your play. I'm positive there was at least one Mafia member guiding that lynch along from the start of the day, if not more. There were definitely far better candidates who fell off, I'm going to want to re-read some of that and see who was really guiding things towards a vote on you instead. Z-Beat's posts are definitely suspect to me in that regard.
CrimsonFist
Neutral Vanilla
Protagonist curse, always happens.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Well, Ned Stark made it through D9 and outlived all the Lannisters and even the Night King in GoT Mafia lol.
Although we did lynch his daughter Sansa on D2, so yeah *shrug*.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
No kills. Interesting...
I thought town would have at least a couple of ways to stop kills. 1 shot BP and a Doctor. If I was the doctor I would probably have saved Brazil. If there is an investigator they should have checked Zeke imo.
We'll see if anyone claims today. The info for a lynch is probably more important than future PR use in a game this small or it is at least a trade off worth making.
I thought town would have at least a couple of ways to stop kills. 1 shot BP and a Doctor. If I was the doctor I would probably have saved Brazil. If there is an investigator they should have checked Zeke imo.
We'll see if anyone claims today. The info for a lynch is probably more important than future PR use in a game this small or it is at least a trade off worth making.
CrimsonFist
Neutral Vanilla
And Nicole immediately tries to shade it.
Why wouldn't town counter claim in that situation anyway. Caught scum is a pretty good deal.
Why wouldn't town counter claim in that situation anyway. Caught scum is a pretty good deal.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Nicole has definitely earned my side-eye at this point.
She was saying this yesterday:
The underlined is just something sneaky I think. She's twice now referenced the end of GoT, once directly, and now again indirectly. The easy lynch for scum later in the game in GoT was Nin. He is also the mislynch that lost the game on the final day. Why is she bringing this up so much? Yes, she was obviously just there playing it as scum, but it's almost like she's trying to make herself seem town by telling everyone to avoid the things that led to town's loss in GoT, even though that vote on nin isn't really a worthy comparison to anything in this game so far.
But idk, maybe I'm just salty about GoT still, just feels like she's saying "Don't be dumb like Fantomas was at the end of GoT!" even though it isn't comparable or worthy of bringing up here in my opinion.
She was saying this yesterday:
And now this today:SweetNicole said:
Bolded is conflicting logic from how I see it. She's justifying the vote by saying he's being defensive, and then goes off about how he deserves it for that because scum can justify it that way later even if he is town. This goes against her logic that using defensiveness to point to either scum or town is useless, does it not?SweetNicole said:
The underlined is just something sneaky I think. She's twice now referenced the end of GoT, once directly, and now again indirectly. The easy lynch for scum later in the game in GoT was Nin. He is also the mislynch that lost the game on the final day. Why is she bringing this up so much? Yes, she was obviously just there playing it as scum, but it's almost like she's trying to make herself seem town by telling everyone to avoid the things that led to town's loss in GoT, even though that vote on nin isn't really a worthy comparison to anything in this game so far.
But idk, maybe I'm just salty about GoT still, just feels like she's saying "Don't be dumb like Fantomas was at the end of GoT!" even though it isn't comparable or worthy of bringing up here in my opinion.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Because town probably don't know. There can be a doctor and a BP. Stuart claims he gets told when he gets shot, typically a doctor doesn't get a notification when they get a save.
I guess in the world where Stuart is fake he is stopping the doctor and their save being confirmed town. But I don't think he was going that deep unless he is exactly with Nicole.
The Stuart kill is a good kill. He is a very involved player that will try and solve the game but at the same time he hasn't really aligned himself with anyone. There is no narrative with a Stuart death. They killed within the largest voter group to keep info to a minimum. With that idea I lean that mafia are spread with 1 player on each vote.
Zeke, Fan and Coolest is a team.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I'm going to entertain the idea of this world for as long as I can.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Not if they lynch Zeke today.
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
That would be interesting.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Natiko does not sit back and will push for his lynch target. A great player to have on town if he makes the correct reads.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Update: No longer entertaining this world. I think Stu is town. Still think Nicole is scum though.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
If his perspective is that Zeke is town then I can see the position that Brazil was being scummy on day 1 sticking to a simple tunnel over nothing. Natiko is definitely aligning in the Fandorin and Zeke world.
Zeke hasn't done himself any favours in the way he argued with Brazil. Brazil's reaction to the double vote doesn't mean anything imo. It isn't like Brazil could have unvoted to save Red from the hammer so I don't really know what his point was other than being overly defensive of his hammer.
Definitely a possibility. Nicole's response to the questioning of her vote move on Red that she wanted to ensure there wasn't a no lynch doesn't feel quite right with how the votes were at the time.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Yeah, I felt right away that there was something off about that vote. It was 5-4-3 with Red in the lead for the trains when she moved to make it 6-3-3. The only person who was unvoted was Zeke, who only did it to prevent the hammer on Red but made it clear his vote was going to go there in the end.
Unless she thought someone else was going to move off of Red and on to Final, and then Zeke put his vote back on Red which would have resulted in a 5-5-3 tie, but that seems unlikely and she never said that was why she wanted to move her vote at the time.
She seems to want to retroactively apply that reasoning to her thoughts though, or in other words, she's trying to pull a Meatwad!SweetNicole said:
God I would be all over her for this if I was in there lol.SweetNicole said:
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Ok, my gut-feels tell me that the scum team is somewhere in here:
Nicole/Gryvan/Final/Muffin/Fandorin/Coolest
I think Brazil and Zeke are both town and their little spat is being used by scum as a distraction.
Muffin is giving me different vibes than he was for the short time I played with him in GoT and it's kind of starting to stick out to me now. I don't think he's Town, might be neutral though, but I think I would go for him at some point regardless.
Nicole + Final probably doesn't make sense, so if one of them flips scum I'd take the other off the list.
I could also replace Gryvan with EmpressDonna, but right now I'm leaning more towards Gryvan so he's on the list. I find his quick vote for Red right after the "Survival Pact" votes to be suspicious.
Nicole/Gryvan/Final/Muffin/Fandorin/Coolest
I think Brazil and Zeke are both town and their little spat is being used by scum as a distraction.
Muffin is giving me different vibes than he was for the short time I played with him in GoT and it's kind of starting to stick out to me now. I don't think he's Town, might be neutral though, but I think I would go for him at some point regardless.
Nicole + Final probably doesn't make sense, so if one of them flips scum I'd take the other off the list.
I could also replace Gryvan with EmpressDonna, but right now I'm leaning more towards Gryvan so he's on the list. I find his quick vote for Red right after the "Survival Pact" votes to be suspicious.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Nicole could have an investigative role. That is what her focus on information and ensuring a lynch says to me. But then she hasn't posted today like she has any definitive information so that doesn't seem to fit. Maybe she is a very weak investigator like tracker.
Potential scum roles in my mind. A ninja or godfather probably. A role cop. And a block or strong kill.
Potential scum roles in my mind. A ninja or godfather probably. A role cop. And a block or strong kill.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
You can't call seven out of twelve people mafia. BOOOOOOOOO!
Also future lols when z-beat is mafia.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I'm not saying their all Mafia, I'm saying those are my suspects. Out of the list, I'd put Nicole, Fandorin, and Muffin on high alert status.
And yeah, Z-Beat is probably Mafia, I just want to see more from him. If he gives some good thoughts after his recap posts and makes a push, then I'll town-lean him more for that.
And yeah, Z-Beat is probably Mafia, I just want to see more from him. If he gives some good thoughts after his recap posts and makes a push, then I'll town-lean him more for that.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I think large scum lists like yours are a bad way to present reads. You know you have called at least 4 town mafia and then a fifth if you think Z-beat is mafia. If you were in the game making these reads you would look smarter and more focussed if you said it this way.
"I think Brazil and Zeke are town and scum are exploiting the situation as a distraction. Stuart is town for the claim, Natiko feels town for his demeanor.
Donna I think is town too but she isn't 100% clear in my mind. That is a nice town circle.
Nicole + Final probably doesn't make sense, so if one of them flips scum I'd put the other on my town.
I'm on high alert status with Fandorin towards the Brazil/Zeke clash.
Muffin is giving me different vibes than he was for the short time I played with him in GoT and it's kind of starting to stick out to me now. I don't think he's Town, might be neutral though, but I think I would go for him at some point regardless.
I'm leaning scum on Gryvan I find his quick vote for Red right after the "Survival Pact" votes to be suspicious.
Beyond that I am still evaluating Coolest. I need more from z-beat too"
Donna I think is town too but she isn't 100% clear in my mind. That is a nice town circle.
Nicole + Final probably doesn't make sense, so if one of them flips scum I'd put the other on my town.
I'm on high alert status with Fandorin towards the Brazil/Zeke clash.
Muffin is giving me different vibes than he was for the short time I played with him in GoT and it's kind of starting to stick out to me now. I don't think he's Town, might be neutral though, but I think I would go for him at some point regardless.
I'm leaning scum on Gryvan I find his quick vote for Red right after the "Survival Pact" votes to be suspicious.
Beyond that I am still evaluating Coolest. I need more from z-beat too"
It is the same reads but rather than coming off like a scattershot scum reads it becomes more about your town reads and feels more constructive than writing that 7 people are mafia. But that is just me, I find town reads to be more helpful in working out how people are reading the game. Remember how mafia had such a hard time building worlds in the MU game as town it is good to be building your own worlds when you post read lists.
I'm disappointed by the lack of town reads in this game fwiw.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Looking closer at the Survival Pact again, noticed something interesting I think.
Final accepted the Survival Pact with Zeke, and now that I look at it, I do feel like he was in more danger of being lynched there than Zeke ever was really. So why did Zeke offer it instead of just voting for Final and encouraging others to do so as well?
4-3-3 Zeke/Final/Red when Zeke offered the pact to Final after he voted for Zeke. It would have shifted to 4-4-3 Zeke/Final/Red if Zeke votes Final there, so let's say there was no pact and that's what happened.
Gryvan and Red had not yet voted.
It's reasonable to think that Red would have gone for either Zeke or Final, he landed on Final in the end, so let's assume he goes there even without the pact, 5-4-3, Final in the lead.
Gryvan had been looking at Red at various times, but was more recently interested in Z-Beat and Final. Z-Beat didn't have a train going really, so he probably goes Final there too if not for following the Survival Pact votes.
That puts it at 6-4-3 Final/Zeke/Red.
Final accepted the Survival Pact with Zeke, and now that I look at it, I do feel like he was in more danger of being lynched there than Zeke ever was really. So why did Zeke offer it instead of just voting for Final and encouraging others to do so as well?
4-3-3 Zeke/Final/Red when Zeke offered the pact to Final after he voted for Zeke. It would have shifted to 4-4-3 Zeke/Final/Red if Zeke votes Final there, so let's say there was no pact and that's what happened.
Gryvan and Red had not yet voted.
It's reasonable to think that Red would have gone for either Zeke or Final, he landed on Final in the end, so let's assume he goes there even without the pact, 5-4-3, Final in the lead.
Gryvan had been looking at Red at various times, but was more recently interested in Z-Beat and Final. Z-Beat didn't have a train going really, so he probably goes Final there too if not for following the Survival Pact votes.
That puts it at 6-4-3 Final/Zeke/Red.
HOLY SHIT! THANK YOU! Lol, yes, that is EXACTLY what I would have wanted to say. Those are my reads right now lol.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
But yeah, as for the Survival Pact, my point about the above is basically this:
Zeke offering that Survival Pact vote on to Red is what caused Red to be lynched. Gryven followed them on to the Red vote even though he was posting suspicions about Final. Nicole switched her voted off Final and on to Red following those votes as well.
My questions if I were playing:
Why did Zeke offer the Pact instead of voting for Final and trying to get Gryv and Red to do so as well?
Why did Gryv follow the Pact immediately?
Why did Nicole switch her vote to Red following the 2 Pact votes and Gryv's vote for him?
Zeke offering that Survival Pact vote on to Red is what caused Red to be lynched. Gryven followed them on to the Red vote even though he was posting suspicions about Final. Nicole switched her voted off Final and on to Red following those votes as well.
My questions if I were playing:
Why did Zeke offer the Pact instead of voting for Final and trying to get Gryv and Red to do so as well?
Why did Gryv follow the Pact immediately?
Why did Nicole switch her vote to Red following the 2 Pact votes and Gryv's vote for him?
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Ok, I realize now Natiko had been asking Zeke about that, I was kind of skimming those posts earlier since I was trying to reread some stuff too. I don't know how I feel about his answers, they're plausible I guess.
I also feel like Final is the easy lynch right now with the way the general thread consensus is, which makes me think they should be re-evaluating why they want to lynch him and who, if anyone, is swaying their thoughts.
I also feel like Final is the easy lynch right now with the way the general thread consensus is, which makes me think they should be re-evaluating why they want to lynch him and who, if anyone, is swaying their thoughts.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
I'm wondering what to make of this exchange here between CoolestSpot and Muffin in response to Stuart's role claim:
Nicole/Muffin/CoolestSpot?
I think that's it for stuff I wanted to re-read. I'll be interested to see Nicole make her return, and I want to see more posts from Coolest and Z-Beat. Also someone needs to put some pressure on Fandorin already haha.
CoolestSpot said:
Considering neither of them seems to actually doubt the claim (underlined), it just seems like they were trying to plant some seeds to go along with Nicole's "Don't trust him!" post without using her same logic (bolded).Muffin said:
Nicole/Muffin/CoolestSpot?
I think that's it for stuff I wanted to re-read. I'll be interested to see Nicole make her return, and I want to see more posts from Coolest and Z-Beat. Also someone needs to put some pressure on Fandorin already haha.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Is this legit? I feel like I held my vote on almost every day in GoT except maybe the first 2. I made it clear who I would want to vote for during the day, but I usually waited until closer to the end before placing one. Was that scummy of me? No one ever called me out on it.Natiko said:
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Just caught up and boy that turned into a mess.
Am I being dumb when I read that CoolestSpot post about town chat and thought it was a claim that he is mafia with Fandorin. OMG IDK
CoolestSpot said:
CoolestSpot said:
Stuart buying into the Nicole scum and putting her with Brazil which seems like a decent read to me. I don't think it is right but Nicole has been scummy.
However Fandorin's reads list is bad. It has too many towns and not enough scum. His scum read on Natiko is weird to me as well but most concerning is that he puts the two easy lynches FinalBeta and Z-Beat as his lowest scum reads. That says he isn't solving the game.
Also he has mixed messages with his read lists. He basically is saying he solved the game with only 3 mafia reads but is also faking healthy scepticism by not putting Stuart in his top town. He is a better town player than that imo. He is just mafia here.
