Mason Thread This is very Includious - Mason Thread

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
Welcome to the Mason thread! Standard rules apply, don't edit posts.

The rolenames of the masons are Verelios and Include, who were combined to one player entity Includious in Heroes vs Villains. You two aren't lovers, just masons.

Masons are:
ShadowSwordmaster
cabot
 
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Fanto

Confirmed Town
Well, first of all I just want to say that I'm sad that ShadowSwordmaster left before you two could slay together. :( I hope he comes back and plays with us again in the future!

And now that I'm here, hi Cabot! Looking forward to chatting with you.
 

The Bear

Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
Well, first of all I just want to say that I'm sad that ShadowSwordmaster left before you two could slay together. :( I hope he comes back and plays with us again in the future!

And now that I'm here, hi Cabot! Looking forward to chatting with you.

well you are the new slayer.
 

cabot

Why.
Better than buffy.

I can't access this site at work so condensed thoughts posted here until the evening.

I'll catch up in game when I get in the office
 

cabot

Why.
Regarding leadership :

While we could try and discuss voting either of ourselves to keep a relative consensus vote based on trust, my current feeling is the best way to play it is to give it to someone not in this partnership.

I know I can trust you already. Best to give it to someone who we know little about. Day one votes are lessened in this setup, so leaders choice is the most useful information to get
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah I agree on not voting each other for either.

I just made my big catch-up post, and my position on the leader is basically that it should be someone who can make a read on their own and not need the room to guide them, or feel like they need to go with the majority just because. I can see where you're coming from with going for someone we don't know much about too though.
 

cabot

Why.
Hmm I'm not liking geno now. He's quite willing to shut down discussion of ketkat who is currently my biggest scum read.

I'm throwing a vote on kyan to see how he reacts
 

cabot

Why.
Malus has also shot up the suspicious chart because he threw shade at Shadows vote which is low hanging fruit since I know you're town.

Is it convenient he never commented on you replacing in?

Asked for clarification
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Oh shit, forgot to check in here, lol!

Yeah, the Malus stuff is weird to me. I'm not sure why he would want to take that angle, and I'm also wary of Dr. Monkey latching on to it and giving it legitimacy, because it's pretty bullshit IMO and I'm honestly amazed I had to address it at all. I figured giving my read on Terra is about all I could really do though.
 

cabot

Why.
It's really bizarre. He didn't back down either.

Feels really lazy tbh.


I'm still unsure of Monkey right now. I struggle to read her in the early phases.
 

cabot

Why.
my current feels on the players..

Townish thoughts:

7. [m] Sorian - MST
9. [m] StanleyPalmtree - GMT+13
6. [m] Fran - GMT-3
24. [m] Giant Panda - EST
10. [m] Fireblend - GMT-6
25. [m] Faddy - UTC

null but no major red flags:

5. [f] Pirate Bae - UTC+4.30
4. [m] Blargonaut - GMT-3
11. [m] Terraforce - GMT-5
17. [m] turmoil7 - GMT-3
13. [m] Kawl - CST
26. [m] AbsolutBro - GMT-5
15. [m] Natiko - GMT-5
23. [m] TheChuggernaut - CST

ehhh:

2. [they] Zubz - EST
3. [m] Brazil - GMT-3
12. [m] FluxWaveZ - GMT-5
16. [m] malus - UTC+1
19. [m] Fandorin - GMT-3
21. [f] Dr. Monkey - GMT-5
27. [m] Geno - UTC
20. [m] Kyanrute - UTC+2

feelsbad:

14. [m] rac - GMT-5
18. [f] KetKat - EST
22. [f] Sophia - GMT-5 Replaced by [m] CeeCee - GMT
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah, for Malus I did play with him as Scum in Conspiracy together, and could maybe see him as Scum here wanting to present something original, even if he knows it isn't going to go anywhere, just to seem like he's scum hunting. I can see him going after me because of the "Well I played with him as Scum together" reasoning if he had to fall back on it too.

For Monkey yeah, agreed, I'm always going to be giving Monkey town-leans in the early game just because she's helpful and talkative, but I did not expect to see her latch on to that BS from Malus so easily, and then bring it up again later in a serious read list was kind of a red flag for me too.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah, I'm mostly in agreement with that read list. I'd probably move Fran out of Town personally just because I don't have any experience playing with him, and I'd also move Faddy and GP into null.

I was feeling ok about Natiko until he came in and threw more shade at this me and Terra thing.

Also, just a hot take #SickRead, but I'm keeping my eye on Chuggernaut. I know this is going to sound weird, but he reminds me of B-Dubs in Gif Mafia lol.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
The Sophia/CeeCee situation is interesting to me. It almost makes me wonder if they have an Override maybe? Like it seemed as though Sophia was almost going out of her way to seem scummy, and now when CeeCee took over he certainly didn't make what I would call a Townie entrance? Just feels fishy to me, I kind of doubt they are Scum right now and I think Faddy has the right read, but I want to keep them in my Scum list just because that's probably what they ultimately want, right?
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
I feel like I'm being scum read a bit here, not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing though lol. On the one hand maybe I get kept alive by Scum, on the other hand maybe I get lynched because my thoughts and opinions kind of fucking suck lol.
 

cabot

Why.
I think you'll be safe for the leader choice, there's a lot of dead and uncertain weight around, would be fairly reckless to shoot you.


Outside of that the Mason claim should make it likely we're safe.


I kind of like the current leader setup. The day phase makes it difficult to feel productive for voting records etc, but I'm fine with either Brazil or Stan as leader.

I townread Stan, not so sure on Brazil but he's not ringing scum to me, so he as leader could help.
 

cabot

Why.
The override theory is interesting. Would kind of make this entire phase pointless though.

I'm not sure what ceecee is just now but I have read him pretty well in the past, so I'm willing to keep him alive for now.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah the leader picks seem good to me, Stan is someone I had in the back of my mind as a good pick.

I feel like the scum reads on me have maybe cooled. Feels nice to be in people's null lists for once though lol usually I'm at one extreme or the other.

Just woke up, but I'll hop in the game thread soon here.
 

cabot

Why.
Stan and Brazil made good points on Sophia.

I mean Faddy's defence of her is completely meta based, which is a very weak straw to suck on.

I don't think ceecee has done much either yet
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah, Brazil's post just now kind of hit the nail on the head really. Yes, she was acting scummy, and yes, there were a strange amount of people who reacted to the low hanging fruit, but she's gone now.
 

cabot

Why.
All the contenders don't have us as an option. Sorian mentions you but says he'd rather kill Fran first.

Think we're alright
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Haha, timing. But yeah, I'm not actually worried about Sorian. He'll probably drop it by tomorrow. I do think I played a little scummy today, like I did in Conspiracy, so he's smelling that and doesn't want to town read me like he did in that game is my guess.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Ok, here's my read list. I'm going to post it in the main thread once D1.5 begins:

Town

Cabot
He’s been playing a very Townie game to me so far, it’s hard for me to see scumminess in his motivations. He’s pushing people, he’s sharing reads, he’s been trying to solve things since the beginning of the day. Dare I say, I think he is Town as Fuck.

StanleyPalmtree
Though I do think the people (I believe Sorian and Faddy) who were pointing out some of his excessive “Angry Stan” posts have a decent point there, I haven’t had any reason to feel suspicious about Stan personally. He did become a leader candidate a bit easily, but most everyone seemed to do it because they were town reading him, so I can’t really fault that too much.

Natiko
He’s also been pushing things forward, interacting with people a lot when he’s around, similar to Cabot in some ways.

Fandorin
Again, it’s a lot of similar reasons here to Cabot and Natiko, they are all doing pretty similar things really, and make posts that I find hard to scum read, and so they read naturally towny to me I guess.

Kyanrute
Although he hasn’t done much real time interacting with the thread, his catch up posts always seem to contain some good Towny thoughts and questions in them. Can't really think of any reason for me to be suspicious of him, and he's made some solid points, so he seems Town to me.

Lean Town

Sorian
He’s playing just like I expected him to really based on the other time I played with him. He’s very confident, he’s forthcoming with his reads, he pushes on people when he wants to, and he generally speaks freely. It all reads naturally townie to me for the most part, but sure call it a meme or whatever, the stories of him being a good Scum player keep me wary.

Terraforce
He’s a strong player who can write a whole novel in response to a question. He doesn’t like to back down from his thoughts too much, but is willing to and will do so gracefully if he really feels like he was wrong about something in my experience. Mostly, this all reads townie to me because I don’t know if Scum would want the target that Terra kind of puts on himself with his big posts and his confident reads. At the same time though, he’s the kind of player who can handle some heat pretty easily, so it wouldn’t surprise me if he played like this as Scum too. Hence, the lean.

Faddy
He’s bringing up a lot of good points and doesn’t seem shy of the spotlight even though he isn’t craving it too much. Some people disagree with his Sophia read, and I’ll admit that it is kind of out there since it is based on a lot of assumptions about meta as others have pointed out. I do think he believes this to be a fact though, I’m just not sure if it’s because he’s Scum or not. I feel more towny thoughts than scummy thoughts overall about him though, so I give him the lean town.


Null

Brazil
There hasn’t really been anything I could point to and say why I’m suspicious of Brazil, it’s more of just a not trustworthy kind of thing since I have spectated a game where he was Scum and had no clue until the end. He can fool me good basically. The reason I wanted to vote him for leader is precisely this, I believed it would help me to get a more solid take on him early on.

Blargonaut
I’m not very good at reading Blarg, and I’m definitely not going to try too hard on D1. When I saw him as Town, he came out on D2 with some goofy but sensible posts that showed he clearly had thoughts on the game, the players, and what he wanted to do. So I’d at least give him until then before I wanted to try reading him.

Pirate Bae
Wary of my ability to read her mostly. She seems towny at times, but sometimes I question myself and wonder if she’s just good at hiding as Scum and that I can’t see it yet.

Fran
I feel like I can go back and forth on Fran. For the most part, I’ll be keeping my eye on him and reconsidering following flips.

Fireblend
Nothing one way or the other that I can remember sticking out really, reads kind of Towny from some of his posts, but could easily be somewhat of a coasting Scum too I suppose.

Rac
My only experience with Rac was him telling us in Scum Chat in Conspiracy that he wasn’t very good at playing Scum, then he subbed out like 6 hours later haha. I don’t know, he’s a pretty jokey guy overall it seems so it’s a little hard to read him, would like to keep my eye on him as the days progress.

Malus

Malus is a dangerous one if he is Scum due to his coasting/blending abilities. I don’t have enough yet from him to fully point at things that could make him Scum, but I’ll keep my eye on him because I love him.

Dr. Monkey
I don’t trust her intentions yet. I find myself disagreeing with her on a lot of things so far. It’s probably just that I’m severely wrong and she is severely right, but she could also easily be Scum since that is how it felt in GoT a lot too eventually.

Giant Panda
Replaced out, was seeming like typical GP but there wasn’t much to go on yet.

AbsolutBro
I have a hard time reading AB since he is playing catch up a lot, but I haven’t really seen anything that stuck out enough for me to think scummy thoughts at least.

Geno
Most people who have experience with him seem to think this is normal play for him, but I just personally have a hard time reading him. At times I think he’s got some townish posts, but his attitude can be hard for me to read at times. Reminds me of how it’s kind of hard for me to read Zeke and his attitude too I guess.


Lean Scum

Zubz
I haven’t really liked their engagement with the thread so far, it feels a bit fake I guess. When I asked for their top two Town and Scum, they included themselves as one of their top Town, which felt a bit like a cop out to me. Other than the rest of their reads feeling a bit off, I just have a lean scum mindset right now for them.

Kawl
Replaced out, but was reading scummy to me due to the amount of fluff. Seemed to be having trouble keeping up with the thread though, so I don’t want to hold that against him too much, but some of his posts did give me scummy “not too invested” kind of vibes I guess.


Scum

FluxWaveZ
Coasting along after drawing some attention early on. Seemed fine at first with being a topic of discussion and was around to engage, but then kind of drifted off and haven’t been around as much. That kind of behavior reads scummy to me.

turmoil7
I made a post earlier about Turmoil, and I stick by what I said there. I didn’t feel very good about his response to me either, and his reads and leader voting behavior have set off some alarms as well.

KetKat
Ketkat is a master lurker as Scum, and all of the signs are here. I would honestly feel safest about getting her out today, I do not like the idea of scummy lurker Ketkat hanging around and giving the scum team tons of good reads while dropping by to giggle with us every now and then. Not today, Ket!

CeeCee
Wasn’t a fan of Sophia’s play, like basically everyone honestly. I think Sorian made some very good points about her back then. CeeCee hasn’t inspired much confidence after taking over, and since I can’t ignore the amount of posts we have from Sophia to work with too, CeeCee reads pretty scummy overall to me.

TheChuggernaut
I think this is Scum Chugg. He’s kind of grasping at straws for his reads at times, he has made some posts that felt pretty forced or where the timing was suspect enough for me to raise an eyebrow. Overall he just feels fake to me, like he’s trying to act like he’s Town rather than just being Town.
 

cabot

Why.
Nice. Kyan as town though so bold.

Bring us day 1.5

Any idea on what game to vote for in the night?
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Any idea on what game to vote for in the night?
Well, since the only game I have any experience with is Conspiracy, and that honestly seems like probably a bad idea, I'm not sure. At best Conspiracy is probably the Secret Vote mechanic, but I could also see it being just some bastard as hell mechanic that is meant to fuck with us lol.

I think some people had mentioned that a few of the games involved getting items, which I assume are one shot powers, so maybe one of those would be a good one to pick early? It really depends on what Grizzly decided to do for each one though I guess, it could just be related to the flavor of the game rather than the mechanics or roles within it.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Hmm, I push Ketkat for reads, and I basically receive an OMGUS from her in return. Not sure how to feel about that yet.
 

cabot

Why.
I must admit I am skeptical that the modifiers will be as significant as items and bastard rules.


I think it'll be variations on voting or posting.
 

cabot

Why.
I'd say the percentage chance of ceecee being town or neutral is about 80%.

He didn't have to kill stan to stop being a lynch target
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
I just woke up and checked in here first. Have not read game thread yet, but I'm assuming I know what I am about to find lol. Holy shit.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Ok omg lol I'm still in bed, immediate reaction before I get up is I believe in the Neutral CeeCee here, I dont see this as a Town move, I liked the note about how it's all self preservation and the timing and the read make no sense.
 

cabot

Why.
I think paying close attention to those who are super keen to kill ceecee is worthwhile here.

Scum have every reason to be afraid of him right now
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Flux is the one that sticks out like a sore thumb from that list to me. His post feels different when compared to others who have said CeeCee should probably get lynched. He just throws it out like it's a done deal, doesn't say why he thinks it should happen though.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Sorian's reaction to this is about what I expected. Pick a fight with someone who doesn't see it the same way as he does and accuse them of being Scum for it.

I'm looking forward to seeing what Dr. Monkey and Faddy think when they show up.
 

cabot

Why.
I'm not sure if he's accusing geno of being scum.

He's pretty much on my stance exactly.

Geno is difficult because I could see it as town aligned blowhard dying on the hill of principles just as much as desperate scum trying to kill threat.

I really, really don't like how Brazil chose to run away from this
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
I expected a lot more from Brazil, yeah. This is pretty interesting now, and I like that theory about Ket showing up on his kill list in a really lame way.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
I think I'm still leaning on this being Neutral CeeCee. It seems like he's just trying to have as much fun as possible and cause chaos in the game. That is like, the perfect goal for a Neutral who is handed DayVig shots lol. I feel like Town uses it more sneakily and with some caution, the Neutral doesn't give a shit though, they just want to watch the world burn, they have no teammates.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Huh, is Blarg going the "This is a Scum Gambit" route?

Let's put on a Blarg-shaped tinfoil hat quick:

CeeCee is a Bomb, one of the other Mafia members is a JoaT with a Day Shot. Sophia/CeeCee play up the "I'm so scummy" angle, wasn't super working to get them lynched today though probably, so they go for a Gambit and CeeCee claims the Day shot in just a wild-ass way in the hopes of being lynched and Bombing someone on their way out.

Blarg-shaped tin-foil hat off.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
I wasn't sure if I should continue down this road with Chugg, but I suppose I'll see if that breadcrumb from you takes hold first haha.
 

cabot

Why.
monkey is afraid of me since her first game when she completely trusted me and I was a big scum bastard.

it's amusing to see her constantly feel sick at townreading me in all other games.



For reference, that bill and ted post I just made is my obvious mason shoutout post in the event of my death and your life.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
monkey is afraid of me since her first game when she completely trusted me and I was a big scum bastard.

it's amusing to see her constantly feel sick at townreading me in all other games.
Yeah well, I trusted Monkey when she was a big scum bastard in my first game, and town reading her makes me feel sick, so I can relate lol.
 

cabot

Why.
you never do get over that first time...

giphy.gif
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
There is a chance that Terra has a good claim here, and Brazil moves to me instead. Last time I played with Terra, he was also up for the lynch on D1, and he was a Cop so he was fine and we lynched elsewhere.

I mean, what sucks is that me claiming would have to involve dragging you into it too if it comes to that. I guess it's probably not the worst thing in the world though since you are like the biggest Town read in the room now, so it's not like Scum wouldn't have already wanted to shoot you.

What I'm actually worried about is Terra flipping Scum and then everyone coming at me with their pitchforks and torches for not being able to read him.
 

cabot

Why.
to be fair the way to use a mason is to have it as a way to confirm town more than anything.

Am i particularly bothered if we have to claim today? No, not really.


Scum may back off this early, because one of us could be protected, and obviously if one dies the other is town confirmed.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah, I suppose at the end of the day we are just an all around pro-Town role, so throwing out two green checks at any point during the game will be useful for sorting no matter what. Plus we get to have that shiny Confirmed Town status for as long as we get kept alive, and that's gotta be nice lol.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
I like the mental image of us being in a room, and Brazil is just pointing a gun at Terra, while everyone else is just reminiscing about old times lol.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah, that was rough.

I think Ketkat is Scum 100%, I'm gunna push for that tomorrow for sure.

I just hope there isn't some ridiculous restriction on voting again lol that was so rough trying to just play the game without being able to vote for people or see who others were voting for and shit, that's probably part of what was making me crack too haha.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
I honestly have no idea what to vote for because I know nothing about the games except Conspiracy. I'll probably just sheep your vote some time later tbh lol.
 

cabot

Why.
I'm leaning to cthulhu for laughs.

Star Wars will probably be a basic modifier. It was a very vanilla game.
 

cabot

Why.
love boat could potentially be interesting.

We could be put in a partnership with someone else.


We could try and get information from our partner and report back.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Yeah, if the Love Boat one does actually pair us up that could be really interesting. I think the worry from most people is that the full lovers mechanics will be in effect during the day and night, so that's lots of potential deaths (especially if CeeCee is still out there lol).

I'll probably wait and see how things are shaking out when I wake up tomorrow and just drop a vote wherever your's is haha.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
So just for fun, I decided to go peek at one of these old games from the list that piqued my interest based on the description, which was Price is Right Mafia. It contained a handful of players from this very game actually. Outside of some newly acquired meta on Pirate Bae, and realziing that I should never trust Kyanrute, my main takeaway is that there is no way the mechanic for this does not involve winning items that give out PR shots. The whole point of the game was that no one had powers and could only win them through a guessing game at night.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So far the votes are bringing forward most of the games that were discussed during the day: Cthulu, HvV, Love Boat, and Power Rangers. Faddy has a vote on Price is Right, presumably because he's thinking like me that those items are probably good to get early. I might just drop a vote there for now too, seems legit.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Ok Cabot, as everyone who has been forced to share a night chat with me has learned since my first game when Sophia was my mentor in GoT, I am a talkative one at night, so here comes my first big post.

My plan here, which I had meant to do today before the unfortunate murder of our dear leader Stan got me a bit distracted, is to go through the early part of the day before I subbed in to look for some notes to take. I was following along the whole day before I subbed in, but I kind of rushed my entrance because I wanted to be able to get into my groove right away. Therefore, a lot of this stuff has slipped my mind, and I want to make sure I remember what was all going down before I came in.

Here's my thoughts on the first few pages of the day:

Pirate Bae was a lot different at the start of the game. I don't know if I want to scumread her for that alone yet because she is busy with life, but man, she is trending down overall on my read list.

This early stuff with FluxWave feels weird looking back. Just feels like people wanting to jump on some random bullshit to have something to post about. Pirate Bae and Sophia were pretty much the queens of getting it started, but Geno was all over it too. I'm pretty sure Sophia was trying to appear scummy due to the role. I don't think Pirate Bae or Geno were trying to do that though, I think they were looking for some random bullshit to post about. As Scum? Not sure, could be. I can't remember if either of them ever talked about Flux again that much after the first few hours or so, so I'll keep my eye on that as I continue to read.

Sorian in general is kind of all over the place, but I don't know how to read that. He goes from being his usual "I know better than you" self, to being kind of self conscious, to being jokey and memey, to doing some shade throwing, some of which all happen in the same post. Eventually he seemed to have settled on "I know better than you" by the time I came in for the most part, but it's interesting to see the full range there in the first ~40 minutes or so.

Side note with a tinfoil hat on: Sorian and Pirate Bae. Scum Partners? *Shudders* Tinfoil hat off.

I honestly can't believe people later tried to bring up SSM voting for Terra and then subbing out of the game. He only really made one post, and it was the vote. Why the hell did I catch heat for calling that bullshit? I would have called that out regardless of if it was the player I replaced or not.

Ketkat reads scummy (surprise, surprise). Both Fandorin and Natiko had made notes about her posts as early as page 2.

You didn't seem to like Fran right away due to his big "Here's all my best guesses for these 80 different modifiers you guys, let's discuss" post. I remember thinking that post was just asking to be called out, and was glad when I saw you did.

That's about all I have for the first couple pages, I'll take a look through the rest later, surprised that I wrote that much already lol.

I'll also get a revised read list posted in here and ready by the start of D2, just in case anything unfortunate should occur. It would also be remiss of me to not point out the irony in me and you having to discuss how to share the other's reads to the thread after that whole thing with me and Zeke in Brexit lol.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Wait, was this a breadcrumb from you? That was smooth if so lol "we can trust in the void"
cabot said:
Can we vote the void left by ShadowSwordmaster?

We can trust in the void.

Early on it seemed like there was a good amount of stuff between Fran and Pirate Bae going on. It started with Bae saying if she was elected she would kill Fran because they've gotten "nothing of value" from him (in the first hour of the game). Fran called it bullshit, they went back and forth for a while. I'm not sure where I fall on this. Fran eventually moved on and had his read on Chugg the next day. Bae turned around on Fran after a while, but then turned around again and put him and Chugg in her Scum list at the end of the day. At first I thought she had just meant it in a "shoot within here" kind of way, but she clarified she thought they could be Scum together. I don't know how to read that shit. I'm thinking there could easily be a Scum within Bae, Fran, and Chugg if there wasn't already just between Fran and Chugg.
 

cabot

Why.
Oh yeah, that was a breadcrumb.

Forgot about that one.


Your thoughts on bae are interesting. I think she's a reasonable scum candidate and I'll take a looksie myself a bit later I think.

That post by Fran in the early game was poor, and to be honest I wouldn't be particularly upset if he was shot today, I'm kind of scum leaning on him.

I'm unsure again on Brazil. When I read most of his posts he comes off as town, but then there are weird things like bailing in the middle of ceecee and turning up with an answer I liked.

The problem was it was well past the discussion of scum having a reason to want him dead, so he could have easily read the room and adjusted.

He also now has town blood on his hands. I wasn't reading terra well but he wasn't going to be my lynch target. Not before ketkat. I'm going to take a look at his terra reads before end game when he became leader, see if it's consistent
 

cabot

Why.
Regarding modifier, I won't be lying if I said I didn't choose cthulhu because I'm a reasonably big fan of spreading insanity.

I do think mechanically it may be more dangerous than some of the others.

I'd be willing to switch to price is right or love boat I think
 

cabot

Why.
Post #807 by Brazil is interesting. He actively defends ketkats stance regarding competent scum as leader.

I still stand by my point, ketkat and monkey vastly overstated the damage a competent scum could do as day 1 leader.

Also noticed Brazil starts being suspicious of terra almost immediately.
 

cabot

Why.
Hmm his ketkat read in his kill list does sync up with the other comment he made on her.

As I go through I am again feeling town when reading posts
 

cabot

Why.
Caught up on Brazil. Pretty decent town read overall, though a little disappointed in the way the lynch was handled.

He never really interrogated anyone other than terra, which felt like a missed opportunity.

Voted for price is right to keep it competitive.

It's COC 7 - PIR 5 - HvV 4 I think
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Am awake now.

Yeah, Brazil is a tough read for me because I've seen him be a pretty convincing Scum. I agree that it felt like he waited to read the room on CeeCee, and I highly doubt Terra would have been the D1 lynch if normal voting were taking place. But that's kind of why I wanted to vote Brazil as leader, the Terra pick gives us something to work with from him now, even if it is "Town Blood" on his hands, because I don't think many, or any, others would have picked Terra above everyone else to shoot D1.

As for Natiko, when he's around I think he's one of the more engaged players, he definitely gets in on conversations and stuff. The one thing that stands out is that it did feel like he was floating himself as a leader candidate for a while, but then he faded out in the latter half of the day once real votes started to come in. He's also all aboard the Ketkat Is Scum train, so I'd feel safe calling him Town at least until we see the Ketkat flip. I haven't really done an ISO on him at all though, but I'll try to keep an eye on him while I go through the rest of the early pages there from before I came in.
 

cabot

Why.
Kinda hoping ceecee shoots ketkat today. He did say that was his new scum read.

I have a sneaky suspicion he's lying and may be a vigi with a day and a night shot.

I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Post #452 from Pirate Bae is where she first seems to start laying off of Fran, but it feels weird. It's almost in like a "I don't want to keep arguing" way rather than a "I'm not really scum reading you anymore" way. Then Brazil hops in and starts asking her about Terra instead.

Interesting random defense of Fireblend from Dr. Monkey here. I only point it out because I seem to remember she did sly shit like this in GoT as Scum too. Not sure if it means she's partners with Fireblend, but it could mean she already knows he's Town.
Dr. Monkey said:
If I remember correctly, Febe got d1 lynched in... Dark Souls? No, something with a flip, but around that time - for a similar entrance. He was town. I remember 'cause I went kinda hard on it, too, thinking along these lines. So I'd say see if there's another reason to suspect him. I mean, keep it on the list or whatever, because that was a while ago, but I wouldn't make it my #1.
Honestly though, I think if Monkey is Scum, it will become much more obvious as the days go on based on who she is scum reading and why.

The first posts from Chugg that make me start to feel weird about him are when he says he would consider giving his vote to Geno to make amends for wrongfully killing him in Conspiracy. Fran tells him that's dumb because past games shouldn't force his decisions in this game. Chugg agrees and says he wouldn't actually do it. But then he clarifies his stance to say that he is town reading Geno more than anyone else in the game so far, based solely on meta, so he'd do it for that. That just seems like a weird first town-read to throw out there to me, but at the same time it's definitely not a safe one to present either because it does stick out a bit. However, it did go unnoticed by everyone but Brazil though, who asked him to explain but didn't follow up after that.

Natiko says that if he were leader he would kill Ketkat, in post #571. So he had his feet firmly planted in an anti-Ketkat stance that early and was trying to gather leader votes with it. He also says he would vote for Brazil as leader other than himself in that post, and he did stick to that decision too.

Chugg says he's been swayed by Monkey to vote for Fandorin instead of Sorian. All Monkey did was explain why she wouldn't want Sorian, or someone like him, to be elected leader, then placed her vote on Fandorin without a reasoning why she wanted him instead. Just felt like a double-sheep there. I'm going to have a post about Chugg's not-so-original reads later too, since that's a big part of my scum read on him, I feel like he's just borrowing thoughts from the thread to make other people more interested in their own wrong Scum reads.

And I now got to the part where I entered the game.

So yeah, I think I'll go ahead and get my thoughts on Chuggs put down next, then get a new read list put together and posted as well.

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I have a sneaky suspicion he's lying and may be a vigi with a day and a night shot.
That would make sense, yeah. Him being X-Shot Day-Vig does feel OP, but having the night shot as his other shot would make a good amount of sense. It would be dope as fuck if he hit Scum tonight to make amends for the murder of Emperor Stan lol.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Ok, so the first time Chugg mentions that he thinks Fran could be Scum is #596. He says that he isn't sure though and wants to keep an eye on him. He doesn't make any other posts in the thread until the next morning (US time) when Brazil was pointing out some things about Fran. He quotes one of Brazil's posts in #827 and says he finds it interesting. #835, he says he doesn't like how Fran switched his thoughts, and that he's already been nervous about Fran but this adds to that.

Kyan makes a note of Chugg first, before anyone else ever did, as being kind of parroty. I crossed posted when Chugg was replying to it as well to ask for some more thoughts from him about Chugg because I had been feeling weird as well. Chugg clarifies he thinks Fran could be Scum and agrees with Brazil, and then also brings up agreeing with my Ketkat read too.

Chugg engages me on it, I bring up his post from my entrance to the game that worried me a bit and give him the reasons it set off alarms.

Then Kyan gets back to me, and he pointed out that stuff about Monkey voting Fandorin that I just pointed out above:
Kyanrute said:
Chuggs became a sidetrack from the minor complaint I had towards Monkey earlier. Monkey follows her Fando read with wanting him as the leader, what convinces Chugg to join the cause. That rang bells, "Where have I seen this before?" I searched for Chugg's posts and saw few others like that: posts where he presents the argument someone else makes for him. He gives air to the arguments without really adding into them or taking the responsibility for them.
That bolded part remains true (and is a really well worded statement), and it does seem suspicious the more he does it.

Then comes Chugg's town-read on Malus for not posting stats on D1, which I really have to agree with Fran, that was a terrible way to try to throw out a town-read for Malus this early. That's what ignited the Fran vs. Chuggs battle really, because it came after Chugg had started quoting Brazil's Fran read saying he felt bad about Fran too.

Next page, Fran comes back because Sorian thought his read on Chuggs was forced as opposed to mine. Fran continues to lay down his point that Chugg is trying to draw a read out of Malus too early based on what he's trying to say about him. Chugg tries to clarify that it's just a lean town actually, and that he could be doing better as Scum too.

I finally come in to engage with Fran because he was starting to throw shade at Sorian too when he really needed to be focusing on his real scum read instead. He gives me a straight answer about his thoughts on Chuggs (He is Scum and forced a read on Malus who he knows is Town), but also says he doesn't like how Sorian is quick to defend Chugg.

Fran lays down in post #1058 that he thinks Chugg is Scum and will vote for whoever wants to kill him. That's a much stronger position on Chugg from Fran than Chugg has on Fran at this point.

Nothing else happens between the two until the more well known and more seemingly forced "Thunderdome" post from Chugg where he made his big scum read on Fran.

He seemed to initially be on the side of "CeeCee is Town" but later he made a post saying he felt worse about CeeCee now. Comes back again way later to say that he thinks CeeCee should be kept alive just to "make his stance known".

Then in #2069 he quotes a post from Brazil about how I backed down from reading CeeCee as a Neutral, which was coming at a time when I was getting heat from Natiko for it too and for being defensive again. Perhaps "giving air to the argument without really adding into it or taking the responsibility for it." as Kyanrute woud say.

He also quotes Ketkat's OMGUS scum read on me in #2096, while this was all still going on, and tries to "give air" to that argument as well, even though he had always said he was feeling iffy about Ketkat, never turned around on that read, but he's going to go with her one scum read post about me, her only scum read really since her other one was CeeCee and we all backed down from that eventually?

That was when you stepped in with the defense/breadcrumb so I stopped going at it, and kind of stopped posting in the thread altogether for the day after that.

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Ok, full read list coming within the next few hours before the day starts. Just wanted to really get my thoughts down on Chuggs because it's based on most of the relevant things he's done in the thread.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
because I seem to remember she did sly shit like this in GoT as Scum too.
Just to expand on this, I just remember the meta that I'm feeling from this. It was when I was scum reading her teammate Include in GoT, she came in with a sly-ass defense of her just like that one that immediately made me feel better about her, just like that post made Terra feel better about Fireblend.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Ok here's the read list. Town and Scum is ordered from most to least (so bottom halves are more of a lean), Null is in no particular order.

Town:
cabot
CeeCee
Natiko
Faddy
Fandorin
Kyanrute
Sorian
Sawneeks
Dr. Monkey

Null:
Zubz
Brazil
Blargonaut
Fran
Fireblend
FluxWaveZ
rac
malus
AbsolutBro

Scum:
KetKat
TheChuggernaut
Pirate Bae
turmoil7
Geno
nin

Main thing I'd point to is that the bottom half of the Town list is definitely Lean-Town City. I feel a lot better about Natiko, Faddy, Fandorin, and even the Kyan read than I do on the Sorian, Saw, and Monkey reads, but they all populate the list of people who appeared to be acting in the best interest of Town for the most part on D1. So in short, there are definitely people there I want to keep my eye on, but this is based on D1 so, that's what I got.

My Scum list has Pirate Bae at #3 now. I want to get some pressure on her today, she was skating by too easily during the back half of D1 compared to how she came out at the start. She didn't contribute much or have to answer to too many people.

Ketkat is where my vote goes to start things out because I want that flip more than anything. She's a very good Scum player, we've been teammates, and I'm seeing all the signs of a Scum Ketkat here again.
 

cabot

Why.
Kyan is interesting. I'm still on the fence there. Fandorin, neeks I'd also move down to unsure.

I just love using some night votes
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Kyan's Scum list was very close to mine at EoD if I remember right as well, that was another thing that made me feel better about that read. But then, a lot of kill lists were looking very similar, so it could have been a "How do you do, fellow Townies?" list as well.

I could probably move Fandorin and Saw down honestly, those aren't very sure reads as I've never played with either of them before.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
What is the main expectation for the Cthuhlu modifier by the way? Is it just a "who knows what we'll get" kind of thing?
 

cabot

Why.
I'm really not sure, people were going crazy with the modifiers, I thought they'd be very basic things on the day/night.


So, I've a feeling I'm about to be very wrong.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Any predictions for the night kill? I'm guessing it's going to be a low activity poster, someone without many connections to draw from and who wasn't catching heat or town reads either way.
 

cabot

Why.
Geno seems like a low info kill tbh.


No ketkat shot. Damn.


Also like i suspected, the modifiers arent too crazy, though 30 post max is a bit of a pain.
 

Fanto

Confirmed Town
Ah, the 1-shot BP claim from Chugg. The same fake role that Monkey used in GoT when she claimed. Not a good one to convince me with in other words lol.
 
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