Holy Grail War Roster (and ideas)

[Verelios]

Mixed pair and maybe more power to mislead town sounds like a good way of doing it, tho let's not go the delayed extra kill route unless we feel it's needed.

Admittedly that wouldn't be too bad since town has a lot of specific killing power (vig shot, override, gladiator, vengeful).

Kind of wonder if maybe a switcher power might work for Tokiomi? Xuanzang has a reflect but that's only one time.

Hmmm, but would a switcher be the answer for tackling the confirmed town? It could certainly work. What do you think about changing Xuanzang's X-shot to just deflector?

Also, I think delayed kill sounded bad but I'm more talking about a poisoner or bomber variant. Something that's situational on who gets voted out and if the initiator is still alive.

 

[lokiduck]

Hmmm, but would a switcher be the answer for tackling the confirmed town? It could certainly work. What do you think about changing Xuanzang's X-shot to just deflector?

So you want to get rid of her motivate and just make her an x shot deflector?

As for how the Switcher could affect things, it can mess up some investigations at least but you might be right that it's not enough. I was just thinking of options besides killing powers that could mess with things.

Also, I think delayed kill sounded bad but I'm more talking about a poisoner or bomber variant. Something that's situational on who gets voted out and if the initiator is still alive.

LOL if we go the bomb route then Drake would be a good pick for that power. Tokiomi might work for Poisoner I think (if it's magic based flavor wise).

 

[Verelios]

So you want to get rid of her motivate and just make her an x shot deflector?

As for how the Switcher could affect things, it can mess up some investigations at least but you might be right that it's not enough. I was just thinking of options besides killing powers that could mess with things.

I just felt like if we were making a switcher another option would be to just let Xuanzang be a full time deflector. It could also conflict with Holmes. Of course that runs the risk of being a little too powerful.

LOL if we go the bomb route then Drake would be a good pick for that power. Tokiomi might work for Poisoner I think (if it's magic based flavor wise).

Yeah, those are good options to keep in hand.

 

[lokiduck]

I just felt like if we were making a switcher another option would be to just let Xuanzang be a full time deflector. It could also conflict with Holmes. Of course that runs the risk of being a little too powerful.

True LOL It's one option to consider tho motivate might be handy still >> Plus it works as a provable power for deep wolfing.

Yeah, those are good options to keep in hand.

Yep

 

[heymonkey]

I like where this is going. I think a light touch is really all that's necessary - keep it in line with your flavor, push the needle just a little, and balance should improve.

 

[lokiduck]

I like where this is going. I think a light touch is really all that's necessary - keep it in line with your flavor, push the needle just a little, and balance should improve.

Yeah i'm liking it too. Honestly I think one of the main fixes would just be to give Xuanzang more deflect shots.

That and maybe giving Tokiomi a delayed poison skill tho we'd want to figure out how it's delayed.

 

[Flush]

I'm curious why you think it would be NAI. I lean town on such a role because it's influential, and I think after EastEnders, most of the community would as well. (Now I want to put one in as scum, though).

Flush, you don't think a universal back-up is more town-side? Especially since they will always inherit a town power unless a vig happens to hit d1 or a neutral goes out first? And that's only if it doesn't specify town power - often, they do. Same for gladiator. It can be classified as negative utility, but that's part of what makes it town.

Same with override. It's possible that can be given to scum but it's shitty if it is because it's basically a vig for scum that hijacks the only collective power town has.

And innocent isn't yellow, it's mod-confirmed and loki isn't quite Geno yet. :P

"Influential" is just as strong a weapon in the hands of Scum as it is in the hands of Town. I would take anonymous message I receive with a heavy grain of salt, but that may be just me...

Back-up definitely is Twon-sided, question is if they can prove they're a universal backup. Backup is a very easy fakeclaim because you don't have to worry the role you're claiming is actually in the game anymore. That's what I meant with "if you get unlucky".

I strongly disagree that a thunderdome always is Town - or at least that our community thinks it is. I would argue the role is less certain Town than a day vig shot (because honestly, giving Scum straight up extra kills is just lazy design) and you've seen the "is the vig shot town?"-scale image... If you are right, however, that role is completely ridiculous and either it or the override should be replaced.

Innocent is mostly Town, but in most cases it doesn't really matter, because this community is so chicken-ish about turboing that I think it will only come up when it's too late. But I admit that that thought is a bit circumstantial based on my limited experience with Innocents in this community.

 

[Flush]

I don't know the lore aspect, but is it possible to put the confirmable roles into pairs with each other? That way we have less confirmed-unless-mixed partners around.

 

[heymonkey]

I don't want to fight you, Flush, because I love you, but I will 1v1 you with these fists of fury if I gotta! (╯°益°)╯彡┻━┻

"Influential" is just as strong a weapon in the hands of Scum as it is in the hands of Town. I would take anonymous message I receive with a heavy grain of salt, but that may be just me...

I mean, yes, obviously this is true. But what I'm saying is that as a ROLE, I think most people are going to assume that's a town or at worst neutral role, because it supports communication in the one time town usually can't talk: at night. And especially after EastEnders, which had a similar role in the landlord, people will attribute that to town. I'd love to see it in scum. I think that would be baller. But that won't be the assumption.

It would be great if it could be the variation who basically reports on the night kill before it's revealed in the game, a pre-dawn role, but with our array of time zones, that's a shitty role if it ends up with someone like Stan or even someone who just happens to be busy before day start.

I strongly disagree that a thunderdome always is Town - or at least that our community thinks it is. I would argue the role is less certain Town than a day vig shot (because honestly, giving Scum straight up extra kills is just lazy design) and you've seen the "is the vig shot town?"-scale image... If you are right, however, that role is completely ridiculous and either it or the override should be replaced.

Thunderdomes fuck up voting and often works as negative utility for town. It also hijacks standard voting and analysis, making it further negative utility. This makes it almost broken in scum hands, especially if it's a four person thunderdome, which reduces their risk - and that's why it's usually town and will be read as town. If someone does a bad thunderdome, it's standard to yell at them but not really scumread them.

I don't know the lore aspect, but is it possible to put the confirmable roles into pairs with each other? That way we have less confirmed-unless-mixed partners around.

hmm, that's interesting, let's put this table back....
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

I think this is probably not due to the nature of the way the pairs are done BUT how are they spread across factions? If we can spread them across factions that at least introduces another point of confusion/potential weapon to create paranoia.

 

[lokiduck]

I don't know the lore aspect, but is it possible to put the confirmable roles into pairs with each other? That way we have less confirmed-unless-mixed partners around.

It is 100% possible to move some pairings around as needed. I want to keep the masters on the teams they currently on, but their servant can be switched around to where you guys think they should go to help with balancing.

Here't are the main things we need to keep in mind.

1. We need one of each of the seven classes for each faction. So we can't move both riders to the same faction.
2. I'd like to keep the neutrals and scum on the teams they are on, tho I'm willing to put scum servants with town masters or scum masters with town servants (hell we could always give them one of the neutral servants if we wanted).
3. Originally Vere and I matched up masters and servants based on what command seals they'd get.

What I mean is like how we handled fate/Mafia... masters with powers usually got a servant who wouldn't need command seals (in Fate/Mafia that was our flavor cop who got paired with a double vote). So by match up confirmable powers with other confirmable powers it'd result in some poor vanilla master probably getting a servant who doesn't need command seals... but that's a reasonable thing to happen as it did happen as well in fate/mafia.

4. We also placed similar powers on opposite teams so both factions power wise would be equal two each other.

Some examples:

The Thunderdome on one team and the Override on the other.
Two Commuters between the teams.
Two protective (the jailor and doctor)

For obvious reasons we should keep those part. So what I'm more of thinking in the end is that maybe we should pair of confirmable powers on each of the factions but keep everyone on the teams they are on now unless there are some where we can make that change.

Besides if we move the Assassin from one team to the other, then the assassin on that other team also has to move... In this case it'd be moving the Tracker from Homunculus to Big Ben, but now the Override has to move to Homunculus would be on the same team as the Gladiator and that's not good >> So we need to keep that in mind.

In either case, I can put together a list of servants that'd need command seals and ones that don't in addition to our confirmable powers so we can see what we can do . Some pairs I think are fine as is with confirmable powers, but we'll see.

Also reminder...

---

Command seals are traditionally one redirect shot (master can force servant to pick a specific target once if they have a targetable power) this power was largely done to sow distrust between partners (and LOL boy did that happen in Fate/Mafia) but also so if the Servant is AWOL after submitting their command, the master can change it if they have a better idea.

The second one is 1 motivate shot which lead us to making a lot of powers x shot. The motivate shot can only be used on servants and servants that are masters (aka Taiga who doesn't need them, Gilgamesh who could use them based on what power he gets, and Medea who doesn't need x shots.)

That's what makes Xuanzang's motivate so unique if we keep it because she can actually motivate master powers.

It would be great if it could be the variation who basically reports on the night kill before it's revealed in the game, a pre-dawn role, but with our array of time zones, that's a shitty role if it ends up with someone like Stan or even someone who just happens to be busy before day start.

Yeahhhh I like that suggestion but you are right that it's not really fair to players who won't be around to do it. So we will probably have to make them a standard reporter.

Only way to counter this i think is if we make the reporter able to be one of two variants and the reporter player picks which variant they wish to be at the start of game based on which would fit their schedule better. But that might be harder to balance.

hmm, that's interesting, let's put this table back....
┬─┬ノ( º _ ºノ)

Can I just say I just love comments like these LOL.

I think this is probably not due to the nature of the way the pairs are done BUT how are they spread across factions? If we can spread them across factions that at least introduces another point of confusion/potential weapon to create paranoia.

That's definitely a good point. This is part of why I think it might be better if we move servants around within their team and not between both teams, as that way we can match up some confirmable pairs on both teams.

 

[lokiduck]

Okay I did the dishes while working on my big post and here were some things I wanted to bring up before that. LOL

1. Should most of the town powers be X Shot? I personally think they should be because 1. It limit's town's powers and forces the players to be careful about when they use shots and who on. 2. It justifies the motivate shot masters have. 3. It justfies having a motivator that can motivate master powers as well (just not specific ones) which helps Xuanzang's claim and towniness. (Basically the only thing going against her at that point is if her master is scum read too much LOL)

2. With the scum servants. I am 100% okay with Drake and Billy ending up with town masters because flavor wise we can make the excuse that the scum team approached them with a better offer than what their masters offered plus the fact that the master is mostly likely just going to fuck them over anyways (bonus points here if we put them with asshole masters like Zouken, Shinji, or Gilgamesh (Kayneth on Big Ben team as well).

However with Xuanzang we can not do that. For one the girl is a super wholesome Buddhist Saint that would 100% be against the plan the scum team has for the grail. The only reason she is on the scum team is because 1. Amazing misdirect flavor wise 2. Her master flavor wise compelled her with command seals to follow along with their orders. So I don't really care which master is her master, but it needs to be a scum one.

As for why scum may have town servants when she got made scum? Simple... after they found themselves having to command seal Xuanzang, they decided not to tell any of their other servants what the plan is and let them just think they are fighting for their respective teams. They figure they can do that because they'll just use CS if they have to, but otherwise can hold off. Bonus points if the town servants end up being head strong really good moral servants like Bedivere, Karna (do we want a scum master and neutral servant thoooo), and Nero.

Drake and Billy would know because they were recruited LOL.

Basically Scum = Anyone in on this plan to steal the grail. Town = Anyone fighting the war like normal/wanting it to run like normal. Neutral = Have personal plans besides the grail war.

3. Another reason to keep the no partner reveal rule is to make it less clear who is with who. With Artoria as the alignment cop, her master might get town read, so the rule prevents it. I think in a way this will both help and hinder how each pair is handled. It's good we are deciding about moving confirmable powers together, but we still also need to keep in mind that the no partner reveal rule will be in place.

 

[lokiduck]

Right...

I'll go through our roster based on the pairings we have currently and list whether they need command seals or are confirmable. From there we can make a list of what can be moved around.

My writing ended up being more complex so I'm going to spoiler the big post and have a TLDR conclusion below it.

Team Homunculus

Spoiler: The big post

Rider: Tohsaka - Godfather and Sir Francis Drake - Thief

Both are Scum. Drake's power is confirmable, Tohsaka's is not.

Should Drake be X shot? If she is she would need a motivate. If tohsaka is her master, her master doesn't need a redirect, but if she gets a town master she should.

Conclusion: Only one confirmable. So good one to consider moving maybe.

---

Archer: Emiya - 1 Shot Switch and Billy the Kid - Strongman

Both are Scum. Emiya's is lol confirmable but he would never claim it (guess he could fake claim vanillizer since the person will be roleblocked until he dies but he doesn't have to mention that last bit) Billy's as well.

Emiya should never be motivatable based on how the power works. Billy like drake only needs a redirect if he has a town master >> We talked before about him being x shot or unlimited. I'm leaning towards unlimited with the amount of protective powers in the game. So no need for motivate. However... maybe he shouldn't be able to get through commutes just to balance it?

Conclusion: Neither would want to confirm publicly LOL so fine is unless we want mixed alignment pairs.

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Assassin: Shinji - Snitch and Li Shuwen - Tracker

Both are town.

Shinji if he power claims should be believed as town (however flavor wise he may get scum read) but it's only provable with death. Li Shuwen's power is 100% provable with results.

Li Shuwen needs 1 motivate as he should probably be x shot. We have a lot of night powers running around, but we shouldn't give him too much power. Also 1 redirect.

Conclusion: both powers are provable and will lead to being town read most likely, so wouldn't mess up this pairing unless we need to. Shinji possibly being scum read based on flavor is the counter to this pairing.

---

Caster: Gilgamesh - Universal Back up and Summer Nero: Gladiator.

Both are town.

You two have debated on whether Gil is confirmable but in theory he should be if he gets a power he can show off of the first flipped person. He's a maybe.

Nero is 100% provable and will most likely earn her town points.

Nero does not need motivate. Should her master have a redirect however... >>

Gil should by default get a motivate so he can use it on himself if he gets a x shot power (it'll be useless if he doesn't) but still.

Conclusion: Nero is confirmable and Gil is maybe confirmable

---

Lancer: Ilya - 2 shot mailman - and Karna - Self watcher (notified when divine players visited him)

Ilya is town and Karna is Neutral.

Ilya's power is provable 100% but scum mailmen are a thing. Honestly out of powers to cut, i wouldn't mind cutting hers.

Karna's power is provable if he asks a divine player to target him LOL butttttttt his power doesn't sound very town to me and town will probably think the same.

Karna doesn't need as he has a passive.

Conclusion: Both are confirmable, it's just Karna's doesn't seem all that townie, and town may think a mailman is town.

---

Berserker: Zouken - Jailor and Caligula - Vengeful

Both are town

Zouken's power is very provable especially since right now he has a night chat with his jailed target... Easy fix there is to make him not have the chat and just jail. Additionally his flavor will 100% not do him any favors as Zouken is basically a villain in Fate. He is town mostly to throw off flavor and to make it believable Tohsaka is town as well especially if Kiritsugu flips first.

Caligula's claim is provable if Nero dies LOL.

Caligula does not need command seals.

Conclusion: Both are confirmable tho Zouken will get some heat flavor wise. Only real reason to split this pair up is if we give Zouken a scum servant.

---

Saber: Iri - Even or Odd night commuter and Sir Bedivere - Lightning rod.

Both are town.

Iri's is provable if targeted on a night she commutes. Bedivere's is 100% provable.

Bedivere does not need command seals.

Conclusion: Both are provable. However do we need Iri to be a commuter. I think the reason we made her one was so Bedi could possible live long enough to do his power.

Homunculus Conclusion Conclusion.


Confirmable townie powers:

Both are town confirmable:
- Shinji and Li Shuwen: both powers are provable and will lead to being town read most likely, so wouldn't mess up this pairing unless we need to. Shinji possibly being scum read based on flavor is the counter to this pairing.
- Zouken and Caligula: Both powers are provable tho Zouken will get heat for flavor name. Only reason to split up this pair is if we want to give Zouken a scum servant.
- Iri and Bedivere: Subject to change if get rid of Iri’s commute.

One is:
-Tohsaka and Drake: Only Drake is but she may not be town read for it.
-Gil and Nero: Nero is 100% confirmable and Gil is a maybe confirmable. Wouldn’t mind keeping them together because flavor wise they are a hilarious team, but willing to move if needed.
- Ilya and Karna: both are provable it’s just while Ilya will probably be town read, Karna will not be probably XD So better not to claim >>

Neither are:
-Emiya and Billy: Both have scummy seeming powers so better not to confirm.

---

3 pairs where both are confirmable, 3 where only one is, and 1 where both aren't.

Command Seals:
Drake - 1 redirect if master ends up town. 1 Motivate if she’s X shot.
Billy - 1 redirect if master ends up town. If infinite shot then no motivate.
Karna - No CS needed as he is a passive power.
Gil - 1 motivate on the off chance he gets a x shot power. No redirect.
Nero - No motivate but maybe 1 redirect.
Caligula - No CS needed as power is passive.
Li - 1 Motivate (since want to make x shot), and 1 redirect
Bedivere - no CS needed power is 1 shot and non targetable.

---

Questions I realized while making my post:

- Should Billy be X shot? I wanna say no with all the protection in town (tho maybe can’t get through commuter powers)

- Should Drake be X shot?

- Do we really need the 2 shot mailman? It’s an extra confirmable power on a master, so one that can be easily cut.

- Nero’s master should have a redirect right? It’s how we’ve done every other

- Should Iri be an even night or odd night commuter? Do we need her power as she is a master?

 

[lokiduck]

TEAM BIG BEN

Spoiler: The Big post

Caster: Kirei - Janitor and Xuanzang - 1 shot motivate and 1 shot deflector.

Bother are scum.

Kirei's power is 100% provable and 100% scummie. Xuanzang's motivate is provable and townie, with her deflector being NAI.

Xuanzang will need a motivator maybe for the deflector shot, not sure if she does.

---

Berserker: Medea - Survivor/Mason maker and Beowulf - Double vote

Both are neutrals.

Medea as a survivor is not provable. As a Mason Maker she 100% is but is that a town seeming power? It kind of is in that it prevents town servants from dying with their town masters... but it still sounds pretty neutrally LOL.

Beowulf is 100% provable but scum DVs exist.

Beowulf and Medea both don't need CS.

Conclusion - Beowulf can maybe pass as town, Medea can't while Wulf is alive and she may be found suspicious when she starts making people masons. XD

---

Archer: Kayneth - Vanilla and Arjuna - x shot divinity cop

Kayneth is Vanilla and Arjuna is Neutral.

Arjuna's power isn't all that provable nor would he really want to considering how neutral sounding the power might be.

Arjuna would need one redirect and one motivate (good luck convincing your master you are town lol).

Conclusion: Neither work as town confirmable power wise

---

Lancer: Waver - Vanilla and Artoria Pendragon - Alignment Checker.

Both are town.

Artoria will be able to prove her power via results.

Artoria needs 1 redirect and one motivate.

Conclusion: Only one is confirmable. However, because Artoria is the alignment cop, her master (if they find a way of indicating who that is) might be believed to be town. (Honestly what I hope is that Artoria assumes her master is a godfather XD)

---

Rider: Sisigou - Doctor/Restless Spirit and Kintoki - X shot commuter

Both are town.

Doc is the doc and Commuters are usually town read. Also flavor wise they make a fun pairing.

Kintoki does not need a motivate since what shots he will have should be enough. No redirect needed.

Conclusion: Both are pretty townie and pretty provable.

---

Saber: ??? - Innocent Master and Musashi - 1 shot vigilante (because why would we give her more than one shot LOL)

Both are town.

??? Is 100% confirmable but it's a bastard game so it may not work out for her player. >> Musashi's vig shot is very provable when she kills someone during the night LOL.

Musashi... does not need CS. It seems unfair to make a vig get her shot redirected.

Conclusion, both are very provable.

---

Assassin: Taiga - Reporter and Cleopatra - Override

Both are town.

Both powers are massively provable and will probably lead to them being town read.

Both do not need CS.

---

Big Ben Conclusion Conclusion

Confirmable townie powers:

Both are town confirmable:
- Sisigou and Kintoki: Both are provable and townie as fuck. I love this pairing flavor wise too.
- ??? and Musashi: Musashi night vig but still both are confirmable.
- Taiga and Cleo: Both are provable and townie.

One is:
-Kirei and Xuanzang: Xuanzang is, Kirei is not.
- Medea and Beowulf: Double Vote is provable and Medea probably wouldn’t want to be confirmed LOL. However, these two are 100% staying together.
- Waver and Artoria: Alignment cops always get town read unless proven otherwise. Partner is vanilla LOL.

Neither is:
- Kayneth and Arjuna: Kayneth is a vanilla and Arjuna has a neutral seeming power.
—-

3 where both are, 3 where one is, and 1 where neither is.

Command Seals
- Xuanzang - 1 motivate maybe if we want her to have more deflector shots then what she has at start.
-Medea - no CS
-Beowulf - no CS
- Arjuna - Redirect and Motivate.
- Artoria - Redirect and Motivate
- Kintoki - no CS
-Musashi - no motivate. Only gets a redirect if the gladiator does.
- Taiga - no CS
- Cleopatra - No CS

Questions:
- How many deflector shots should Xuanzang have?

- I think we may want to remove Illya’s mail and Iri’s commuting because then Homunculus has two vanilla to match the two vanillas on Team Big Ben LOL. Seems a bit unfair to big ben :< Tho we can keep powers to throw off things if needed. After all town may doubt there being two commuters in town.

- I already making most of town as x shot, but should the doc be as well? I assume so.

- Forgot to mention that ??? Innocent master power is a power they activate. I guess that technically makes them a celebrity instead but come on Innocent Masters is so cute sounding :<

- Soooooo Should the vigilante’s master have a redirect. If the gladiator’s master does then the vig’s should be too >> It’d be unfair otherwise.

 

[lokiduck]

One thing of note from doing this:

Both teams have 3 pairs where both powers are confirmable, 3 that have only one, and 1 that have neither.

Aka 6 both confirmable pairs, 6 one confirmable, 2 neither.

In both cases the two where it's neither are a double scum pair and a town and neutral pair. This is a bit of an issue, so when making more confirmable pairs, we should as a result make more where neither are.

Over all right now it's pretty reasonable since it's even for both teams.

I'll let you guys look over my posts and questions before I'll continue.

 

[heymonkey]

Yeah, I think spreading them out like this makes a difference. It'll take me a bit to go through all this.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah, I think spreading them out like this makes a difference. It'll take me a bit to go through all this.

Okay sounds good o7 I think having them split by teams and then all together also helps. Since besides making things balanced for town, scum, and the neutrals, we also want both teams having an even chance at the bonus wincon XD

 

[heymonkey]

- Soooooo Should the vigilante’s master have a redirect. If the gladiator’s master does then the vig’s should be too >> It’d be unfair otherwise.

Doesn't have to be fair, just has to be balanced. How does a gladiator redirect work, anyway?

- I think we may want to remove Illya’s mail and Iri’s commuting because then Homunculus has two vanilla to match the two vanillas on Team Big Ben LOL. Seems a bit unfair to big ben :< Tho we can keep powers to throw off things if needed. After all town may doubt there being two commuters in town.

You could make the commute 1-shot, one is even, one is odd, if you wanted both. However, 2x commuter, doctor, and jailer... is a lot.

 

[heymonkey]

big game tho, so... ehhhhhh it just depends on what you want. My role in a game like this is not to take away from you, but to point things out and let you decide.

 

[lokiduck]

big game tho, so... ehhhhhh it just depends on what you want. My role in a game like this is not to take away from you, but to point things out and let you decide.

LOL we usually tell our reviewers that they have free reign to suggest ideas or change things how they feel it should be, as long as we approve it of course.

So if you guys have ideas how how to balance this game then let me know o7.

I have a lot more experience with balancing and making games now, but I also sometimes need ideas or help to make my games better. Some reviewers have really changed my games for the betters with their ideas, like Geno and Fanto wanted more scum members for Fate/Mafia :D

 

[heymonkey]

I mean, that's fine! I'm not usually that kind of reviewer, though. I'm a nudger. :) Let's wait a minute and hear from Vere. I'm sure playing a game with such quick phases is tiring tho so it may be a few.

 

[Flush]

test

 

[Flush]

I seem to be unable to make long posts atm... Anyway, I won't be able to read through your new posts until the weekend.

 

[Flush]

this is just a test, don't mind me

...

linebreaks


hello there how are you doing here in the morning and I don't have a sleeping bag with me because I expected to stay in that flat for at least 2 years old and new friends and family I would have taken over the one I just signed up for a game is a

 

[lokiduck]

I mean, that's fine! I'm not usually that kind of reviewer, though. I'm a nudger. :) Let's wait a minute and hear from Vere. I'm sure playing a game with such quick phases is tiring tho so it may be a few.

Okay. XD Vere doesn't always get pinged. So i'll tell him to check in on the thread like I have been doing XD

 

[heymonkey]

this is just a test, don't mind me

...

linebreaks


hello there how are you doing here in the morning and I don't have a sleeping bag with me because I expected to stay in that flat for at least 2 years old and new friends and family I would have taken over the one I just signed up for a game is a

I know about your tests but this is still a delight :D

 

[lokiduck]

I know about your tests but this is still a delight :D

yes :D

 

[heymonkey]

I would say unless Flush has some objection he hasn't gotten through with his message limitation, start writing the PMs. We can test read a couple like suggested but i don't think we need major changes at this point.

 

[lokiduck]

I would say unless Flush has some objection he hasn't gotten through with his message limitation, start writing the PMs. We can test read a couple like suggested but i don't think we need major changes at this point.

Okay sounds good. :D

Here is the doc for the PMs.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zc7A5_E2q0PUpbDIyupU-XPu8tMcBQxWThZFgy_M6u4/edit?usp=sharing

 

[lokiduck]

Stuff I'm noticing while working on PMs (honestly writing these suckers always helps me realize questions I still have and didn't think of before then lol):

- So Holmes the Captain. I like how we are doing the role where each day he'll get three players he can captain (all RNG'd) and they'll be listed by what type of power they are

So 1. Investigative (Artoria), 2. Investigative (Arjuna) 3. Protective (Sisigou) (without the name of flavor of course).

1. Are we including neutral and scum powers?
2. Basically which powers should be be allowed to captain.

Naturally if the player doesn't listen to his target choice they are RB'd.

---

Flavor for factions:

Town: You are trying to get this greater holy grail way back on track dammit!
Mafia: You are out to steal the grail from under the noses of these suckers!
Karna/Arjuna: You are wanting to loyally serve your master, but you really need to kill your half brother first (sorry master :<).
Medea: You aren't even sure why you signed up, but if it helps your goals whooo.
Beowulf: You don't know what's going on, but you will do anything so your master wins.

---

I don't think we decided... is Holmes allowed to say he doesn't have a partner or do we want to put him under gag order too?

---

I made most of town powers 2 shot except for those that most def need to be 1 shot. We can adjust as needed.

1. Should the doctor who is a master being x shot or infinite?
2. We didn't decide whether the scum team should be x shot... I was thinking Billy should be infinite to counter all the commuters and the doc if he's not x shot... but should Drake be?

Should Xuanzang be on her deflector and motivator shots?

Whether they are X shot will determine if their masters need motivate shots.

@heymonkey @Flush

---

I'm removing Zouken's ability to chat with his jailed targets because it makes his power less confirmable as a jailer power. \o/

I will add it back if you guys think we should.

---

Reminder this is what a thief does

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Thief

Since the scum team already has the switch, I don't want to make Drake a permanent RBer like some Thieves, but I do really like the idea of Drake being able to use the power she stole for the night to give the scum team a bump in power.

Basically it'd work like this:

- If she can't roleblock a certain power (we'll have to decide what those are once we finalize the powers), then she only gets a hint about what the role is.
- If she can roleblock the power, she'll RB them for the night and get a shot of the power she can use the following night if she wants (but only for that following night).

So say if she uses her shot on a night Iri or Kintoki are not commuting, she'll get Iri's car or Kintoki's motor cycle (if they are commuting nothing will happen LOL). The question then is... can she use the power that night if she wants to?

However, if she does have this ability, then we will make her a 2 shot that can be motivated. That way it won't make the team toooo powerful (hell if she gets the vig shot LOL)

If she can't use the power she blocks, then I'd be okay with her being unlimited unless we decide otherwise.

What do you guys think?

Once we have finalize the powers, we'll need to decide what powers she can RB, and what will be the item for each power.

 

[Verelios]

Haha, I was wondering where the new posts were coming from. It just so happened that I never got pinged when this one updated, but do for the other (sometimes).

 

[lokiduck]

Haha, I was wondering where the new posts were coming from. It just so happened that I never got pinged when this one updated, but do for the other (sometimes).

This is why you need to check the thread :D :D :D every minute >:D >:D >:D.

 

[Verelios]

Stuff I'm noticing while working on PMs (honestly writing these suckers always helps me realize questions I still have and didn't think of before then lol):

- So Holmes the Captain. I like how we are doing the role where each day he'll get three players he can captain (all RNG'd) and they'll be listed by what type of power they are

So 1. Investigative (Artoria), 2. Investigative (Arjuna) 3. Protective (Sisigou) (without the name of flavor of course).

1. Are we including neutral and scum powers?
2. Basically which powers should be be allowed to captain.

Naturally if the player doesn't listen to his target choice they are RB'd.

I think Holmes should have the option at least so I'll vote yes for neutral and scum.

Flavor for factions:

Town: You are trying to get this greater holy grail way back on track dammit!
Mafia: You are out to steal the grail from under the noses of these suckers!
Karna/Arjuna: You are wanting to loyally serve your master, but you really need to kill your half brother first (sorry master :<).
Medea: You aren't even sure why you signed up, but if it helps your goals whooo.
Beowulf: You don't know what's going on, but you will do anything so your master wins.

---

I don't think we decided... is Holmes allowed to say he doesn't have a partner or do we want to put him under gag order too?

Hmmm...that's hard to answer but I'm leaning yes. I suppose their alignment will be called into question and they won't be able to prove much, so a gag order doesn't have much utility for him. The only reason we wouldn't want him claiming is if irlt adversely affected other players.

I made most of town powers 2 shot except for those that most def need to be 1 shot. We can adjust as needed.

1. Should the doctor who is a master being x shot or infinite?
2. We didn't decide whether the scum team should be x shot... I was thinking Billy should be infinite to counter all the commuters and the doc if he's not x shot... but should Drake be?

Should Xuanzang be on her deflector and motivator shots?

Whether they are X shot will determine if their masters need motivate shots.

@heymonkey @Flush

1. I vote for X-shot.
2. Drake should be X-shot but Billy can ve infinite.
3. I don't get the Xuanzang one.

I'm removing Zouken's ability to chat with his jailed targets because it makes his power less confirmable as a jailer power. \o/

I will add it back if you guys think we should.

---

Reminder this is what a thief does

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Thief

Since the scum team already has the switch, I don't want to make Drake a permanent RBer like some Thieves, but I do really like the idea of Drake being able to use the power she stole for the night to give the scum team a bump in power.

Basically it'd work like this:

- If she can't roleblock a certain power (we'll have to decide what those are once we finalize the powers), then she only gets a hint about what the role is.
- If she can roleblock the power, she'll RB them for the night and get a shot of the power she can use the following night if she wants (but only for that following night).

So say if she uses her shot on a night Iri or Kintoki are not commuting, she'll get Iri's car or Kintoki's motor cycle (if they are commuting nothing will happen LOL). The question then is... can she use the power that night if she wants to?

However, if she does have this ability, then we will make her a 2 shot that can be motivated. That way it won't make the team toooo powerful (hell if she gets the vig shot LOL)

If she can't use the power she blocks, then I'd be okay with her being unlimited unless we decide otherwise.

What do you guys think?

Once we have finalize the powers, we'll need to decide what powers she can RB, and what will be the item for each power.

I like the thieving PR idea. So she won't be told what the power does right?

 

[lokiduck]

I think Holmes should have the option at least so I'll vote yes for neutral and scum.

Yeah plus it weird gives scum some cover tooo and captains do sometimes have the ability to boss scum powers around so we'll include them o7

Hmmm...that's hard to answer but I'm leaning yes. I suppose their alignment will be called into question and they won't be able to prove much, so a gag order doesn't have much utility for him. The only reason we wouldn't want him claiming is if irlt adversely affected other players.

True. There's also the fact that people may want to vote him out because he's a neutral since he doesn't have a partner. So LOL might be better to have him say he doesn't have a partner... but at the same time... it kind of prevents him from being able to fully claim unless he fakes something like he's a caster servant with a master (because of the flavor mentioning stuff like that).

1. I vote for X-shot.
2. Drake should be X-shot but Billy can ve infinite.
3. I don't get the Xuanzang one.

Yeah i decided to make Drake a 2 shot. Tokiomi has a chance of giving her a 3rd and Xuanzang at least once more LOL. 4 shots is plenty >>

Billy being infinite is fine. With an even night commuter in game there's still a chance he won't kill someone.

ooooh since Kintoki is 2 shot, his master can motivate him now * w *

With Xuanzang she is right now a 1 shot Motivator, and a 1 shot Deflector. There as talk of giving her more deflector shots, but personally I think we should keep the motivator shot to one since it's a powerful ability that can be used on masters even. One shot is also all she needs to prove her power to town for her cover if she goes that way.

I like the thieving PR idea. So she won't be told what the power does right?

ooooh I hadn't thought of that but I like it.

So basically if she robs from Illya she'll receive a familiar (which is how Illya sends messages), if she chooses to use the familiar she'll be asked to send a message. The power will get confirmed at dawn, and we ask her... and then send the message to the player.

Since she can't roleblock commuters, that mean she won't ever get Kintoki's Motorcycle to use LOL, but she can at least see it.

 

[lokiduck]

So right now. All servants will die if their master does unless Medea mason's them.

In our previous game, town servants didn't die with scum masters, but I don't think that applies with a town masters and neutral servants.

If you guys think the servant should live let me know.

If we ever end up giving scum servants to town masters, we'll have the mix alignment rule apply however aka the pairs aren't one sided lovers but masons already. That way mafia doesn't get punished if they kill town. Same with scum masters and town servants.

hmmmmmmm

now that I think of it, that seems mean to Karna and Arjuna and also makes their wincon easy >>

>< What do you think Vere? does the mix alignment pair rule apply to Arjuna and Karna?

---

Also Karna and Arjuna will stay in the game if one of them wins because they are loyal to their master. Are we all okay with this? XD

I kind of love the idea of...

Arjuna dies...

Game runners: Karna wins!!! (no PM is posted)

Karna: \o/ Okay back to the war Master. Let's win the game for town and our team!

Illya: Why are you still here?

---

Alternative history

Karna dies...

Game runners: Arjuna Wins!!! (no PM is posted)

Arjuna: At last I have killed him and can focus on your fight master! \o/

Kayneth: You were neutral?

 

[lokiduck]

I'm going to tell Caligula his power activates if Nero dies >> Anyone who knows Caligula in FGO will know it's her that'd cause it and she's already pretty much confirmed via a thunderdome causer.

Plus Nero may not trust Caligula automatically anyways. Anddddddd Caligula may not know if Nero is town >> The game is bastard it could be part of an elaborate scum cover up! And any servant can be scum anyways >>

If you guys don't like this, then I can change his PM up LOL.

 

[lokiduck]

Okay Team Homunculus is done PM wise!!!

I'll get to work on Team Big Ben \o/

 

[lokiduck]

So with the restless spirit. I'm totally cool with letting him keep voting until the end of the game, but if you want to limit it to one day or several days then please say so.

We could always have it that he can't vote during Mylo/Lylo if anything.

 

[lokiduck]

Okay looking at the reporter role again i really like the variant where the reporter is given some info about the game state (such as who died) to write a fake news article about it. >> The issue is time zones of course.

However I have a proposal.

During N0 Taiga's player is given one of two variants of announcer to play as. They will tell us which version they wish do.

The options are:

1. The variant that is told who died or anything else that would normally be announced by mods after actions have been processed. They will write up their post during dawn and then we will post it when it's ready. They can't report their own death tho LOL (unless we want them to be allowed to XD)

2. A version that is allowed to write a post that will be posted by use during the night. They have until actions lock to submit their post and when we are around we will post it in the main thread. This post can be just their general thoughts on the game state, and what happened with the day's flip just in case they die during the night.

Basically 1 gives them more info on the night but in a shorter window that doesn't work for every player... and 2 gives them more time but is less info giving.

It seems fair to me.

 

[lokiduck]

Finished Big Ben Masters. Only 7 PMs left LOL.

Soooooo have fun looking over these while I sleep. x3 There will most likely be some misspellings since I am pretty tired, but I am determined to finish this before bed .\ , /.

 

[lokiduck]

Fun idea. Since Beowulf is a neutral... what if his double vote works even during mylo, lylo?

 

[lokiduck]

*Collapses* Okay i did it.

\o/

So please correct any grammar mistakes you see, i don't mind and let me know your thoughts.

Some final thoughts I had.

... I don't remember them...

Okay one thing.

The list of players off the top of my head that are divine to confuse Arjuna's divine checks in his hunt for Karna:

Gilgamesh
Himself
Karna
Taiga Fujiwara.
Kintoki
Xuanzang
Cleo
Medea

(So yeah all three servant turned masters are Divine LOL) rest are servants.

Basically for the neutral analysis. Arjuna has 2 shots to find his target in a group of 7, and may find servants that are masters. XD

Karna has a chance of being targeted by...

Gil (if he has a targetable power)
Arjuna
Xuanzang
Medea (if Beowulf dies).

Soooo his odds are honestly better but that requires Arjuna actually picking him (basically they find each other at the same time but may not realize it) and also requires him being targeted by these peeps

Good news: The two just need the other to die. And if that won't happen somehow then they just need town to win and for their team to win.

 

[lokiduck]

Bed time o7

 

[heymonkey]

PMs always do reveal a lot but gosh that's a lot of posts. O.O I'll get caught up.

 

[lokiduck]

PMs always do reveal a lot but gosh that's a lot of posts. O.O I'll get caught up.

I know right? Same thing happened when i was pushing out the Nier: Automata PMs.

In previous games we wait on PMs till everything is balanced, so there's usually less questions. But I think this does help us figure out what things we still need to work on.

 

[Verelios]

So right now. All servants will die if their master does unless Medea mason's them.

In our previous game, town servants didn't die with scum masters, but I don't think that applies with a town masters and neutral servants.

If you guys think the servant should live let me know.

If we ever end up giving scum servants to town masters, we'll have the mix alignment rule apply however aka the pairs aren't one sided lovers but masons already. That way mafia doesn't get punished if they kill town. Same with scum masters and town servants.

hmmmmmmm

now that I think of it, that seems mean to Karna and Arjuna and also makes their wincon easy >>

>< What do you think Vere? does the mix alignment pair rule apply to Arjuna and Karna?[/highlight]

I think it's only fair for them (Karna and Arjuna) to die if their masters die since it adds a secondary layer to them not being entirely self-serving. But--

Also Karna and Arjuna will stay in the game if one of them wins because they are loyal to their master. Are we all okay with this? XD

I kind of love the idea of...

Arjuna dies...

Game runners: Karna wins!!! (no PM is posted)

Karna: \o/ Okay back to the war Master. Let's win the game for town and our team!

Illya: Why are you still here?

---

Alternative history

Karna dies...

Game runners: Arjuna Wins!!! (no PM is posted)

Arjuna: At last I have killed him and can focus on your fight master! \o/

Kayneth: You were neutral?

I also absolutely love this idea. So, we can have whoever won stick around but I feel like they should lose their right to vote since their mission was completed. They're basically only sticking around out of goodwill to their master (but they've won). Or, alternatively, we can give them the choice of going back to the throne (spec).

I'm going to tell Caligula his power activates if Nero dies >> Anyone who knows Caligula in FGO will know it's her that'd cause it and she's already pretty much confirmed via a thunderdome causer.

Plus Nero may not trust Caligula automatically anyways. Anddddddd Caligula may not know if Nero is town >> The game is bastard it could be part of an elaborate scum cover up! And any servant can be scum anyways >>

If you guys don't like this, then I can change his PM up LOL.

I feel like naming Nero is giving the player too much information. For all the player knows it might even be an artoria look alike like Jeanne instead of Nero, so changing it to the vague someone seems a better fit.[/QUOTE]

 

[lokiduck]

I think it's only fair for them (Karna and Arjuna) to die if their masters die since it adds a secondary layer to them not being entirely self-serving. But--


I also absolutely love this idea. So, we can have whoever won stick around but I feel like they should lose their right to vote since their mission was completed. They're basically only sticking around out of goodwill to their master (but they've won). Or, alternatively, we can give them the choice of going back to the throne (spec).

I feel like naming Nero is giving the player too much information. For all the player knows it might even be an artoria look alike like Jeanne instead of Nero, so changing it to the vague someone seems a better fit.

[/QUOTE]
okay got it.

 

[lokiduck]

New proposal then we don't say who triggers his vengeful but we will send him a little flavor blurb when Nero dies, telling him he killed someone.

We can decide if we chose to tell him who he killed or not. I'm good with either option.

 

[heymonkey]

I know right? Same thing happened when i was pushing out the Nier: Automata PMs.

In previous games we wait on PMs till everything is balanced, so there's usually less questions. But I think this does help us figure out what things we still need to work on.

I find that in these complicated games, writing the PMs a little earlier REALLY helps.

 

[lokiduck]

I find that in these complicated games, writing the PMs a little earlier REALLY helps.

And it does :D

 

[lokiduck]

I had some general thoughts about Medea. LOL

1. if she wins with her second wincon (aka mason maker wincon) if the reporter is 1. Alive and 2. has picked the reporting with night results option... We should tell them that besides who died, that Medea has won so to include in the report.

I am very tempted to ask the neutral player to supply us with a quote we can give the announcer in this case LOL At the same time I'm tempted to just in form them a neutral has won and left the game and let them write what they want then at day start write:

"As she stared at this shithole of a battlefield, she was glad she was going to be leaving this place. She had considered going after the greater grail, but the idea of helping her team win to then have to kill them for the grail didn't really appeal to her anymore. Besides, while there was definitely a chance she could have survived this war fine... whether he team would was... debatable.

So screw the greater grail, she accomplished what she needed to do for her own plans and she was going to get out of here! As she left flying away she could be overheard by several witnesses saying "Sorry my fellow servants... I was only able to help those that I could... I hope that you I have helped appreciate the gift. As for you masters... EAT SHIT!" And with that she flew off never to be heard from again for this Greater Holy Grail War.

player has won!

PM

---

2. If she wins/dies after this second wincon has been unlocked will her PM flip with the mason maker info and wincon? I think it's only fair those servants she masoned know what's happen, and we could do the thing we do with cults where we put a line through the survivor parts.

---

3. If she's a survivor that makes it to end game, I will probably write two different endings based on whether her teams wins or not. She wins regardless but it makes sense flavor wise.

 

[Verelios]

I had some general thoughts about Medea. LOL

1. if she wins with her second wincon (aka mason maker wincon) if the reporter is 1. Alive and 2. has picked the reporting with night results option... We should tell them that besides who died, that Medea has won so to include in the report.

I am very tempted to ask the neutral player to supply us with a quote we can give the announcer in this case LOL At the same time I'm tempted to just in form them a neutral has won and left the game and let them write what they want then at day start write:

That's cool, it gives the players some involvement beyond their actions too. Let's go with taking a quote from Medea if they win with the second WC and giving it to the reporter. It would have to be after actions lock though O_O, so would the type of reporter picked have an effect on that?

2. If she wins/dies after this second wincon has been unlocked will her PM flip with the mason maker info and wincon? I think it's only fair those servants she masoned know what's happen, and we could do the thing we do with cults where we put a line through the survivor parts.

Agreed, but instead of putting a line we could just put RULE BREAK across the survivor part, haha.

3. If she's a survivor that makes it to end game, I will probably write two different endings based on whether her teams wins or not. She wins regardless but it makes sense flavor wise.

Yep, that sounds good.

 

[lokiduck]

That's cool, it gives the players some involvement beyond their actions too. Let's go with taking a quote from Medea if they win with the second WC and giving it to the reporter. It would have to be after actions lock though O_O, so would the type of reporter picked have an effect on that?

I think we'll go this method if the reporter picks the dawn report variant (they get the night results for kills/Medea's win and have until day start to write their report on the info).

If the reporter is 1. dead 2. picks the night report variant (they make one post that we will post in the thread during the night phase. It has to be given to us before actions lock so more time but less info on night actions), I'll go with the blurb I wrote up top.

I think it's totally fine the Reporter getting a quote from Medea tho LOL we can flavor it as they managed to get a special interview with Medea before she left, but that's of course only if Medea's player is around before day start to give said quote.

If not then we can just have Medea player send in their will as per usual.

Agreed, but instead of putting a line we could just put RULE BREAK across the survivor part, haha.

I love it. Let's do it.

Yep, that sounds good.

I'm thinking for day start and ends this time we do the flavor more on the spot. Maybe doing something ala Aeleus where we come up with something based on what happened but quick.

Instead of the two people talking format we'll do it like I wrote that blurb up top, more in a story formate or even like an announcer talking (though in a different writing style than our intrepid announcer LOL).

Something like: "It was going to be a very lovely day here in the Greater Holy Grail War, and some certainly found it that way! One participant said they had a lovely breakfast with their servant and all things are going good. However, not everyone had a happy morning... as one poor suck master found their servant dead this morning!

Player has died!"

However, I do think we should write different endings both losing and winning dialogue for our neutrals and of course for how the game may end.

Aka scum win, town win, different teams winning, all that good stuff XD

 

[lokiduck]

Proposal for flavor: Vere and I can do flavor like it's reporters reporting on the GHGW and Taiga is one of their fellow colleagues that just happens to be in the war too.

Soooooo when Vere posts he's one character, and I post as another (like how we handle as Devola and Popola in Nier) and when say posting the reports from taiga we say "our agent in the field had this to say! (Taiga post)"

And we do shit like posting Taiga's post then after in our post going "thank you our agent in the field! Now back to the news!" followed up but some light flavor or our own and the PM stuff XD

 

[Verelios]

Proposal for flavor: Vere and I can do flavor like it's reporters reporting on the GHGW and Taiga is one of their fellow colleagues that just happens to be in the war too.

Soooooo when Vere posts he's one character, and I post as another (like how we handle as Devola and Popola in Nier) and when say posting the reports from taiga we say "our agent in the field had this to say! (Taiga post)"

And we do shit like posting Taiga's post then after in our post going "thank you our agent in the field! Now back to the news!" followed up but some light flavor or our own and the PM stuff XD

Definitely going to be an anchorman vibe, haha. I like it.

 

[Verelios]

I think we'll go this method if the reporter picks the dawn report variant (they get the night results for kills/Medea's win and have until day start to write their report on the info).

If the reporter is 1. dead 2. picks the night report variant (they make one post that we will post in the thread during the night phase. It has to be given to us before actions lock so more time but less info on night actions), I'll go with the blurb I wrote up top.

I think it's totally fine the Reporter getting a quote from Medea tho LOL we can flavor it as they managed to get a special interview with Medea before she left, but that's of course only if Medea's player is around before day start to give said quote.

If not then we can just have Medea player send in their will as per usual.


I love it. Let's do it.



I'm thinking for day start and ends this time we do the flavor more on the spot. Maybe doing something ala Aeleus where we come up with something based on what happened but quick.

Instead of the two people talking format we'll do it like I wrote that blurb up top, more in a story formate or even like an announcer talking (though in a different writing style than our intrepid announcer LOL).

Something like: "It was going to be a very lovely day here in the Greater Holy Grail War, and some certainly found it that way! One participant said they had a lovely breakfast with their servant and all things are going good. However, not everyone had a happy morning... as one poor suck master found their servant dead this morning!

Player has died!"

However, I do think we should write different endings both losing and winning dialogue for our neutrals and of course for how the game may end.

Aka scum win, town win, different teams winning, all that good stuff XD

Yeah, spontaneously writing flavor based on the gameflow sounds good to me. We can even alternate day end and starts like you mentioned previously.

 

[heymonkey]

Definitely going to be an anchorman vibe, haha. I like it.

I dig it.

 

[lokiduck]

Definitely going to be an anchorman vibe, haha. I like it.

Of course :D It's a greater holy grail war, every magus will want to see it :D :D :D so might as well have some coverage.

Yeah, spontaneously writing flavor based on the gameflow sounds good to me. We can even alternate day end and starts like you mentioned previously.

Yep that's the plan. It may also depend on our schedules LOL. If I get the job I'm hoping to get, then my schedule will be a bit different than a typical 9-5 so we'll def have to alternate then depending on where I can be there for end/start or not. XD

But we'll make it work :D :D :D

All we gotta do is balance this game.

 

[lokiduck]

I'm super fucking tempted to keep throwing in fake quotes from characters through out the flavor andddddd

if the reporter goes with the dawn report option, asking the dead member for their will and having the reporter take care of it, as "an exclusive interview from the after life" LOL


the will just be a regular will tho. So no game play shit. Hell could do it even with them picking option night report. They could be in charge of sharing the will from the player voted out XD.

 

[lokiduck]

Example fake quotes.

When a new train pops up last minute causing said person to be voted out:
-When asked how they felt about today's fight one participant had to say "I don't know... I seriously thought I was a goner today so I'm definitely glad we killed that other guy/gal/"

When there's only one main train the day phase:
- As everyone returned to their safe houses, one master could be heard saying "well you gotta give props to the sucker for living so long, having so many attack them."

Thunderdome day and Nero dies:
- To get a feel of everyone's emotions after the talent show we asked one servant what they thought. Their responses was, "To be honest I have no clue what's going on, but I gotta say that extra person also dying after the Emperor died was pretty hilarious" (Since LOL Caligula will kill someone if Nero dies in the thunderdome.)

Thunderdome day and Challenger dies.
- Man wasn't that an exciting day wasn't it!!! We asked the winner what they thought about their victory and their response was "Of course I won!!! What kind of Emperor would I be if I couldn't win in a talent show battle to the death! I'm sure I'll have many fans after this!"

And sure enough at least one participant was heard cheering in the crowd for the victor (if Caligula is still alive).

Bonus: Day start dialogue for the thunderdome day.
- Come one, come all!!! Today is the Greater Holy Grail War's first ever and last Talent show!!! Today and today only you can only vote for Nero player and other player who will be preforming their special talent!!! Be sure to vote for who you think was the worst performance because there will be deadly consequences for whoever loses!!!

When asked about how they felt about todays talent show one master responded with the ever graceful comment of "What the fuck?"

 

[heymonkey]

Just checking in - I think at this point we're waiting mostly on Flush to catch up. How are y'all doing on finishing PMs? I'm not rushing lol I just don't want to go start reading if you're still actively changing things.

 

[Verelios]

Just checking in - I think at this point we're waiting mostly on Flush to catch up. How are y'all doing on finishing PMs? I'm not rushing lol I just don't want to go start reading if you're still actively changing things.

From what I saw, we're mostly good on that front. Loki did a great job there \o

 

[heymonkey]

Loki is a beast and a powerhouse. I'll put them on my to-do list then!

 

[lokiduck]

Just checking in - I think at this point we're waiting mostly on Flush to catch up. How are y'all doing on finishing PMs? I'm not rushing lol I just don't want to go start reading if you're still actively changing things.

I finished those two-three days ago. I've been waiting on you guys to respond to them.

From what I saw, we're mostly good on that front. Loki did a great job there \o

Loki is a beast and a powerhouse. I'll put them on my to-do list then!

I do however, appreciate the compliments >:D

I am the master at writing a fuck ton of PMs in one day *faints*. I may spice up the flavor for some of them later, but otherwise I feel pretty good about them, tho that won't stop me checking for typos like 5 times and still missing them so Ephi will point them out. >>

Additionally @Verelios we really need to talk fake claims so we can write up some flavor for them. I maintain that our scum and neutral servants should all be fine, but Medea probably and at least Tokiomi and Kirei might want some master claims. Honestly Kerry may but I also think not since he was the protag of Zero.

If he flips then Kirei is in the clear probably. If Kirei or Tokiomi flip he's probably in the clear. But still should give them 3 masters at least.

 

[heymonkey]

I finished those two-three days ago. I've been waiting on you guys to respond to them.

I'm sorry, I thought the continued discussion meant they were still in progress. mea culpa

 

[lokiduck]

I'm sorry, I thought the continued discussion meant they were still in progress. mea culpa

It's okay :D I did say a post that I was done with then, I was mainly talking to myself when I made that post so there's all the other stuff I thought of while writing that caused it to be harder to see.

In fact it was in this post.

*Collapses* Okay i did it.

\o/

So please correct any grammar mistakes you see, i don't mind and let me know your thoughts.

Some final thoughts I had.

... I don't remember them...

Okay one thing.

The list of players off the top of my head that are divine to confuse Arjuna's divine checks in his hunt for Karna:

Gilgamesh
Himself
Karna
Taiga Fujiwara.
Kintoki
Xuanzang
Cleo
Medea

(So yeah all three servant turned masters are Divine LOL) rest are servants.

Basically for the neutral analysis. Arjuna has 2 shots to find his target in a group of 7, and may find servants that are masters. XD

Karna has a chance of being targeted by...

Gil (if he has a targetable power)
Arjuna
Xuanzang
Medea (if Beowulf dies).

Soooo his odds are honestly better but that requires Arjuna actually picking him (basically they find each other at the same time but may not realize it) and also requires him being targeted by these peeps

Good news: The two just need the other to die. And if that won't happen somehow then they just need town to win and for their team to win.

So again it makes sense you missed it. XD

 

[heymonkey]

Yeah, i thought it kept going after! okay, I'll be in there this weekend.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah, i thought it kept going after! okay, I'll be in there this weekend.

Okay sounds good o7

Also the only part of that post that made it clear I was done was the fact that posts above it I mentioned being 7 PMs from completion (also surrounded by other thoughts).

 

[Verelios]

View attachment 233 I finished those two-three days ago. I've been waiting on you guys to respond to them.



I do however, appreciate the compliments >:D

I am the master at writing a fuck ton of PMs in one day *faints*. I may spice up the flavor for some of them later, but otherwise I feel pretty good about them, tho that won't stop me checking for typos like 5 times and still missing them so Ephi will point them out. >>

Additionally @Verelios we really need to talk fake claims so we can write up some flavor for them. I maintain that our scum and neutral servants should all be fine, but Medea probably and at least Tokiomi and Kirei might want some master claims. Honestly Kerry may but I also think not since he was the protag of Zero.

If he flips then Kirei is in the clear probably. If Kirei or Tokiomi flip he's probably in the clear. But still should give them 3 masters at least.

Fake master claims will be kind of hard due to us exhausting most of the known masters. Do you want to start pulling from Fate/Stange Fake? We can do Tine Chelc (master of fake King) for Medea, Wolf for Kerry and Faldeus Dioland for Tokiomi.

 

[lokiduck]

Fake master claims will be kind of hard due to us exhausting most of the known masters. Do you want to start pulling from Fate/Stange Fake? We can do Tine Chelc (master of fake King) for Medea, Wolf for Kerry and Faldeus Dioland for Tokiomi.

I think you mean Wolf for Kirei. XD

It'll look a bit suspicious of we use masters all from the same series tho LOL. You are right that we are running out of people... but we do have some options.

There are a lot of unused masters from Fate/Apoc, CCC, and Fate/Requiem as well. We could even reuse a master that was previously in Fate/Mafia as a alternate reality version of them either from this world specifically or another one.

After all Mafioso kind of has to happen in a different universe from Fate/Mafia considering what happened there >>

After All Illya and Waver are from an alternate reality as well this game. Ohhhh plot twist... if Town wins Waver finds out he can go home, but he shouldn't because his world is the Fate/Mafia world soooo >> for the best he's here I guess. That's if he's alive of course. If Illya is and he isn't then she's from that world \o/

Another option is both are from that world and Illya's specifically mentions she left her old world because the world ended LOL. If Waver is also attached to this world and mentions it then having a third character (the fake claim) claim to be from it works perfectly.

oooh we could use Sola-Ui Nuada-Re Sophia-Ri (Kayneth's fiance) as an option for Kirei maybe??? She'd have to be Big ben team if she's a fake claim.

 

[Flush]

Role PM feedback (not commenting on balance, just on unclarities. Still didn't have the time to go over the balancing stuff properly):

Gilgamesh:
Maybe put in a phrase that the backup does not include the factional Scum kill. Does it include passive powers?

Illya:
It's not clear whether the receiver will know the identity of the sender

Karna/Arjuna:
The info that they both and a bunch of other players too are divine is missing in the PMs

Francis Drake:
Does the one ability/night also include the factioanal kill?

Henry McCarty:
Strongman also hits commuter and jailed people?

 

[lokiduck]

Maybe put in a phrase that the backup does not include the factional Scum kill. Does it include passive powers?

Will put in the faction kill mention. As for passives... hmmm I'll let you guys decide whether he should or not on passives..

It's not clear whether the receiver will know the identity of the sender

I will make it clear that they will not.

The info that they both and a bunch of other players too are divine is missing in the PMs

I'll add that in o7

Does the one ability/night also include the factioanal kill?

Yes. I'll include that too.

Strongman also hits commuter and jailed people?

He can shoot jailed people (after all they are sitting in one place LOL) as for Commuters... I'm debating. He's an unlimited strongman so having him be able to kill the commuters seems a bit much especially since one commuter is a 2 shot that dies anyways if his master does (unless he get's rule breaker'd) and the other is an even night commuter.

Flavor wise Billy would 100% be able to shoot someone on their motorcycle or sports car.

What do you guys think?

 

[heymonkey]

I have never liked that strong gets commuters; it makes no sense to me. You're GONE, so how do you get got??? That said, it is standard that strong goes through anything, so if it fits flavor and you want to go standard, there's precedent.

 

[lokiduck]

I have never liked that strong gets commuters; it makes no sense to me. You're GONE, so how do you get got??? That said, it is standard that strong goes through anything, so if it fits flavor and you want to go standard, there's precedent.

Okay then we will. It does make sense flavor wise. billy so quick he can shoot someone going 100 miles an hour LOL. XD

 

[Verelios]

Okay then we will. It does make sense flavor wise. billy so quick he can shoot someone going 100 miles an hour LOL. XD

I can gel with this. But I've always thought of strong as a high powered rifle or rocket launcher, and commuting as moving somewhere else. So strong logically goes through barriers, BPs, doctors, body guards, but it does seem weird that if someone left their house and I blew it up with a rocket launcher, they'd still die.

 

[heymonkey]

I can gel with this. But I've always thought of strong as a high powered rifle or rocket launcher, and commuting as moving somewhere else. So strong logically goes through barriers, BPs, doctors, body guards, but it does seem weird that if someone left their house and I blew it up with a rocket launcher, they'd still die.

See, we're same page. And also now I want to design a strong role that's just a rocket launcher haha.

 

[heymonkey]

I'm trying to do the PMs and google keeps kicking me out.

 

[heymonkey]

I'm gonna have to mess with settings and come back, it's happened now in two browsers. But this:

Fate info: What is a Greater Holy Grail Wars? GHGW are grail wars where two factions compete for the greater grail, a grail more powerful than your standard grail. Two factions made up of 7 masters and servants (one of each standard class) each will fight until one faction is victorious and an overseer or Ruler class servant will make sure the war is conducted fairly. When a victor is decided the remaining servants and masters for the winning faction will then compete in a standard Holy Grail War to see who actually gets the greater grail.

is gonna make people immediately go to the odd number and try to start speculating about who it is and finding ways to game it no matter what rules you put in place. It'll also make Sherlock feel immediately trapped. It sets a tone for the game that I'm not sure you want.

 

[lokiduck]

See, we're same page. And also now I want to design a strong role that's just a rocket launcher haha.

Then make a resident evil game where Umbrella/various monsters are town. Chris Redfield can be the strongman with a rocket launcher.

I'm trying to do the PMs and google keeps kicking me out.

>:( Google

I'm gonna have to mess with settings and come back, it's happened now in two browsers. But this:

Fate info: What is a Greater Holy Grail Wars? GHGW are grail wars where two factions compete for the greater grail, a grail more powerful than your standard grail. Two factions made up of 7 masters and servants (one of each standard class) each will fight until one faction is victorious and an overseer or Ruler class servant will make sure the war is conducted fairly. When a victor is decided the remaining servants and masters for the winning faction will then compete in a standard Holy Grail War to see who actually gets the greater grail.

is gonna make people immediately go to the odd number and try to start speculating about who it is and finding ways to game it no matter what rules you put in place. It'll also make Sherlock feel immediately trapped. It sets a tone for the game that I'm not sure you want.

Yeahhhhhhhhh I debated about that when i included the overseer. I will remove that part. Let the fans of the flavor suggest the odd one out is probably the ruler...

Additionally I'll include the "what is fate" stuff we included from the first game which is why I also listed Rulers then and mentioned that usually they don't want the grail.

Amakusa immediately threw a wrench in that in Fate/Mafia (since he is a ruler that does that shit) but people may see that and someone saying the odd one out is probably a ruler and feel good about them but they may not.

For a refresher

https://www.resetera.com/threads/fa...hey-are-killed-in-mafia.366281/#post-56923172

When making the what is fate I included examples of nearly every type of servant that may feature in one of our Fate/Mafia games just to not clue in players on what class was added by only explaining it that game LOL.

I just didn't see the reason to explain GHGW for that game as it only applies so far to this one. XD

...

...

@Verelios I think I want to look up pics for all the characters while we wait on other stuff for the review. :D :D :D And it's totally not just because I want to see these guys reactions to these characters.

 

[heymonkey]

Yeahhhhhhhhh I debated about that when i included the overseer. I will remove that part. Let the fans of the flavor suggest the odd one out is probably the ruler...

yes!! I love this. I think leaving it open and letting people get buckwild instead of funneling them one way is better here.

 

[heymonkey]

I made some notes on the PMs but I think they're all early, and all little stuff. I think we're ready to test! I'd say pick a pair and let's "flip" them here and try to imagine it's d1 - what happens? I think if we do two pairs that might be most questioned, we'll see if there's any last sticky points.

 

[lokiduck]

yes!! I love this. I think leaving it open and letting people get buckwild instead of funneling them one way is better here.

Agreed. Again I had hesitation when I wrote that, so I'm glad you brought it up.

 

[lokiduck]

I made some notes on the PMs but I think they're all early, and all little stuff. I think we're ready to test! I'd say pick a pair and let's "flip" them here and try to imagine it's d1 - what happens? I think if we do two pairs that might be most questioned, we'll see if there's any last sticky points.

I'm going through the comments LOL. I got stumped on what to call the two sides besides Faction or team and basically >> my solution is to explain that by team I mean all of team Einzbern or all of team Mages' Association.

 

[lokiduck]

:I I copied the PMs over from the previous games and while I got the typo that every PM had which was the wincon say "You when when" but left in the lover chart :I

 

[lokiduck]

I made some notes on the PMs but I think they're all early, and all little stuff. I think we're ready to test! I'd say pick a pair and let's "flip" them here and try to imagine it's d1 - what happens? I think if we do two pairs that might be most questioned, we'll see if there's any last sticky points.

Okay willing to do this :D I'll just work on the comments too.

 

[heymonkey]

:I I copied the PMs over from the previous games and while I got the typo that every PM had which was the wincon say "You when when" but left in the lover chart :I

cursed efficiency!

 

[lokiduck]

cursed efficiency!

this is also why the sample servant PM had that a in "you are a"

 

[heymonkey]

Okay willing to do this :D I'll just work on the comments too.

Let's see what Flush says (maybe snag him on Discord) - I don't want to push if he's not ready but also i think it looks pretty close. Game like this will never be "perfectly balanced" but there's a lot of room to move.

 

[lokiduck]

Let's see what Flush says (maybe snag him on Discord) - I don't want to push if he's not ready but also i think it looks pretty close. Game like this will never be "perfectly balanced" but there's a lot of room to move.

Yep :D

Funny enough Nier: Automata is basically almost done, but then OA jumped in with two suggestions so now we have to discuss that. So I'm sure something like that might come up.

Also I can ping Flush on discord if you want me to.

 

[heymonkey]

Yeah, go for it.

Now I'm gonna go catch up on work. there's always something.

 

[lokiduck]

Yeah, go for it.

Now I'm gonna go catch up on work. there's always something.

o7

 

[lokiduck]

While we wait I'm going to work on pics :D

 

[lokiduck]

@Verelios I'll PM some stuff to you on Era, buttttt will also put all the options I find in the doc. So let me know what you think.

You reviewers can also give input if you want XD

---

I am so fucking tempted for Shinji's pic to be a gif of him getting punched LOL.

---

*resists the strongest temptation to just do AUO Gilgamesh.*

---

I have to be careful with the pic I use for Zouken otherwise we may traumatize the players if his player dies :I

There's one of him blushing and it's like the creepiest fucking thing I've seen and I'm sooooooo tempted to use it.

Spoiler: Just so I don't traumatize those who don't want to see

With these games I do try and use fan art instead of official stuff but there's like no fan art of this creepy fucker (makese sense) except for when he was younger and therefore hotter. Dude didn't look bad at 450 something lol.

Either case probably will just use some official artwork. Scratch that found something.

 

[Verelios]

@Verelios I'll PM some stuff to you on Era, buttttt will also put all the options I find in the doc. So let me know what you think.

You reviewers can also give input if you want XD

---

I am so fucking tempted for Shinji's pic to be a gif of him getting punched LOL.

---

*resists the strongest temptation to just do AUO Gilgamesh.*

---

I have to be careful with the pic I use for Zouken otherwise we may traumatize the players if his player dies :I

There's one of him blushing and it's like the creepiest fucking thing I've seen and I'm sooooooo tempted to use it.

Spoiler: Just so I don't traumatize those who don't want to see

With these games I do try and use fan art instead of official stuff but there's like no fan art of this creepy fucker (makese sense) except for when he was younger and therefore hotter. Dude didn't look bad at 450 something lol.

Either case probably will just use some official artwork. Scratch that found something.

Cool, les go!

 

[lokiduck]

Cool, les go!

I'm so proud. I found a nice pic of Iri not in her sexy outfit ;w; (tho that outfit is super fucking cute on her LOL)

 

[Flush]

What exactly are you waiting for? My balancing thoughts? I think that can wait until after the simulation, it's slightly less theoretical then.

For role PMs: I'm the wrong person to ask for flavor suggestions, my PMs usually are sterile and have no flavor at all except for the very first paragraph (that's similar to your first one). I don't have more mechanical points other than the ones already addressed. So let's start with the next step :)

 

[lokiduck]

What exactly are you waiting for? My balancing thoughts? I think that can wait until after the simulation, it's slightly less theoretical then.

For role PMs: I'm the wrong person to ask for flavor suggestions, my PMs usually are sterile and have no flavor at all except for the very first paragraph (that's similar to your first one). I don't have more mechanical points other than the ones already addressed. So let's start with the next step :)

Okay sounds good :D

@heymonkey :D :D :D

 

[lokiduck]

Oh @Verelios All the talk about Holmes reminded me to tell you... I got Moriarty :D :D :D

 

[lokiduck]

All the good Sisigou fan art is of him with Mordred. I love that :< Best Master and Servant Pair in Apocrypha (lol the series that had the GHGW) but I need just him :<

 

[Verelios]

Oh @Verelios All the talk about Holmes reminded me to tell you... I got Moriarty :D :D :D

Congratulations on getting the suspicious old man!

 

[lokiduck]

Congratulations on getting the suspicious old man!

He certainly was a butt for a few years there :< Cost me a lot of quartz, but hey I got him >:D