Holy Grail War Roster (and ideas)

[lokiduck]

Finding now sexy fan art of Lancer Artoria is hard >> but I found one at least.

 

[lokiduck]

@Verelios and the others https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IedELid-BERgireft1sQWLaMvxUrYh0-quaugzMvHU/edit?usp=sharing Here are the pics I selected for the characters. please let me know if you find something better Vere or want something else. However :I the hardest part of this whole thing was finding pictures of female characters in their actual outfits that weren't super fanservicey.

It was really really fucking hard :I especially with characters like Xuanzang because she basically wears a bikini with some robes. :I

Anyways

@heymonkey I am 100% ready to do the simulation stuff. I just don't know where to start. XD

 

[heymonkey]

@Verelios and the others https://docs.google.com/document/d/11IedELid-BERgireft1sQWLaMvxUrYh0-quaugzMvHU/edit?usp=sharing Here are the pics I selected for the characters. please let me know if you find something better Vere or want something else. However :I the hardest part of this whole thing was finding pictures of female characters in their actual outfits that weren't super fanservicey.

It was really really fucking hard :I especially with characters like Xuanzang because she basically wears a bikini with some robes. :I

Anyways

@heymonkey I am 100% ready to do the simulation stuff. I just don't know where to start. XD

Just pick a pair and post the PMs here, like the master died. If there’s one you’re not sure about, pick that one. We can pretend it’s the d1 flip and analyze it. :D

 

[Verelios]

Just pick a pair and post the PMs here, like the master died. If there’s one you’re not sure about, pick that one. We can pretend it’s the d1 flip and analyze it. :D

Best to random.org it so we're all unprepared.

 

[lokiduck]

Just pick a pair and post the PMs here, like the master died. If there’s one you’re not sure about, pick that one. We can pretend it’s the d1 flip and analyze it. :D

(I RNG'd it.)

Well there you have it! It's the first casualty of this Greater Holy Grail War and shocker of all shocks it's a master! However, unlike most masters this one can still talk even after death albeit in a limited capacity!

When asked for a comment he stated, "I'm sorry I failed my servant, but don't worry buddy, I'll get back at both of them for the both of us." (Totally using this dialogue when this cahracter dies will just reword if he gets night killed.)

Kairi Sisigou has died!

A necromancer that has worked for the Mages’ Association for years, you have proven to be a good magus for the job. You hope your servant and you will get along because otherwise this war will be a long one.

You are Kairi Sisigou and you are a 2 shot Doctor.

You are a: Master.
Your servant is: Sakata Kintoki. Their class is: Rider.
Your team is the: Mages’ Association.

You are trying to get this greater holy grail war back on track dammit! (that is town)

During the night you can use the command Mend: player. The player will be protected from a killing action.

Additionally you are a Restless Spirit. If you die, you will be able to vote but not talk in the thread until the end of the game. Please do not try and communicate with the vote tool.

However, you have 1 command seal.
You have:

• 1 Motivate - Use the command Motivate and your servant will get one more shot the next night.

You are also a one sided lover! If you die, your servant will die with you! If your servant dies, you continue living!

You will be modkilled if you reveal your lover in the main thread. Please read the game specific rules for more rules.

You can also vote!

You win when all threats to town are eliminated.

The thread:
Your Lover Night Chat:
If you have questions please contact the game runners c:

Since Kairi Sisigou was a master, his servant died too!!!

Sakata Kintoki has died!

One of the four kings that followed Minamoto no Raikou, you have taken a much more western appearance in your servant life… partly because you love being so golden. You even convinced your famous golden Bear into turning into a motorcycle for you so you can… ROCK ‘N’ ROLL!

You are Sakata Kintoki and you are a 2 shot Commuter.

You are a: Servant . Your class is: Rider.
Your master is: Kairi Sisigou.
Your team is: The Mage's Association.

You are trying to get this greater holy grail war back on track dammit! (that is town)

During the night, use the command Have a Golden time ;) and you will not be able to be targeted by night actions.

You are also a one sided lover! If you die, your master will not die with you! If your master dies, you will not continue living!

You will be modkilled if you reveal your lover in the main thread. Please read the game specific rules for more rules.

You can also vote!

You win when all threats to town are eliminated.

The thread:
Your Lover Night Chat:
If you have questions please contact the game runners c:

Night one start

 

[Verelios]

Tin foil hat on:

Bad night. Ouch. I'm guessing scum has some strong shots because having both a commuter and doctor for town is really powerful and wouldn't make sense otherwise.

Hmmm...maybe there's also another killing role in the the game? A neutral or vig most likely.

 

[heymonkey]

That’s juicy. Doctor and commuter - commuter is safer than doctor but dies with doc. Ouch.

Knowing about the bonus wincon keeps me from speculating too hard there. Similar thoughts to Vere on the game set. What flavor inroads might folks make here?

 

[heymonkey]

And speculation re: strong does track because they have strong and other things that could potentially counter (switch). Okay. That feels good on mechanics. Just the flavor question.

 

[Verelios]

That’s juicy. Doctor and commuter - commuter is safer than doctor but dies with doc. Ouch.

Knowing about the bonus wincon keeps me from speculating too hard there. Similar thoughts to Vere on the game set. What flavor inroads might folks make here?

Not much. They may link the class (rider) to functionality, and it will certainly open up masters not having to be only vanilla. In fact, having a master be the doc is weird in itself...makes me wonder if there are negative utility town servants or masters how many actual vanillas (regular masters with only Command Seals) there are in the game. I'd bet they're a minority if there are any at all.

 

[heymonkey]

Not much. They may link the class (rider) to functionality, and it will certainly open up masters not having to be only vanilla. In fact, having a master be the doc is weird in itself...makes me wonder if there are negative utility town servants or masters how many actual vanillas (regular masters with only Command Seals) there are in the game. I'd bet they're a minority if there are any at all.

This would be such a demoralizing d1 flip that I actually wonder if some of these questions would even come up immediately, but there's a LOT in there to mine and consider.

I do not have any concerns myself at this time if there's not any weird flavor things.

 

[lokiduck]

Sisigou player: Vote: heymonkey

 

[lokiduck]

Not much. They may link the class (rider) to functionality, and it will certainly open up masters not having to be only vanilla. In fact, having a master be the doc is weird in itself...makes me wonder if there are negative utility town servants or masters how many actual vanillas (regular masters with only Command Seals) there are in the game. I'd bet they're a minority if there are any at all.

*not Sisigou player* What makes you say that? Surely with how many players there are in the game, there's gotta be a tleast more than a couple vanillas? I mean last game all of the masters were vanilla except like two scum masters and that ruler posing as a master.

I mean sure this makes it clear that town non servant based masters can have powers but maybe this one is just a minority?

 

[heymonkey]

Sisigou player: Vote: heymonkey

 

[heymonkey]

Just leaning into the role I see!

 

[lokiduck]

Just leaning into the role I see!

LOL were you wondering why our dead player would vote for you? Are you worried they may have some info on you?

Spoiler

Since he is a restless spirit we do gotta factor in that he's going to be able to vote LOL.

 

[Verelios]

*not Sisigou player* What makes you say that? Surely with how many players there are in the game, there's gotta be a tleast more than a couple vanillas? I mean last game all of the masters were vanilla except like two scum masters and that ruler posing as a master.

I mean sure this makes it clear that town non servant based masters can have powers but maybe this one is just a minority?

It's better to err on the side of caution than stumble in the dark. Last game is last game, and this game is this game. NO ONE CLAIM, but if you're a town master and have a PR other than CSs then you know it in your heart that this game is different. Nights will be very chaotic, unpredictable and messy. We'll need to unravel it all during the day, and if we have some people trying use the last Fate/Mafia as a barometer, look at their sincerity before anything.

 

[lokiduck]

It's better to err on the side of caution than stumble in the dark. Last game is last game, and this game is this game. NO ONE CLAIM, but if you're a town master and have a PR other than CSs then you know it in your heart that this game is different. Nights will be very chaotic, unpredictable and messy. We'll need to unravel it all during the day, and if we have some people trying use the last Fate/Mafia as a barometer, look at their sincerity before anything.

Hmmm I guess you do have a point there... I'm just confused. What we aren't talking about but should be because LOL he just voted, is that our dead master here had TWO powers. He wasn't just the doc, but a restless spirit. Was that to compensate for him being a 2 shot with no way to recharge (since motivates in this game seem to only work on servants)?

Why have a 2 shot doc on a master in a game this big?

 

[Verelios]

Hmmm I guess you do have a point there... I'm just confused. What we aren't talking about but should be because LOL he just voted, is that our dead master here had TWO powers. He wasn't just the doc, but a restless spirit. Was that to compensate for him being a 2 shot with no way to recharge (since motivates in this game seem to only work on servants)?

Why have a 2 shot doc on a master in a game this big?

It's possible he's not the only protective? We could have a BG, or a backup maybe. Hmmm, the doc has 2 shots, so it's even possible that there's a role to motivate masters.

 

[lokiduck]

It's possible he's not the only protective? We could have a BG, or a backup maybe. Hmmm, the doc has 2 shots, so it's even possible that there's a role to motivate masters.

Hmmm that's all possible. There definitely is some kind of protection in the game besides the doc then... Just not sure what.

Spoiler

Oh shit I just realized that Gilgamesh is now a 2 shot doc, that's actually a fantastic outcome for town considering he can motivate himself once.

 

[Verelios]

Hmmm that's all possible. There definitely is some kind of protection in the game besides the doc then... Just not sure what.

Spoiler

Oh shit I just realized that Gilgamesh is now a 2 shot doc, that's actually a fantastic outcome for town considering he can motivate himself once.

I guess the only thing we have to ask is if scum have a way to burst town down 2 targets at a time (multi-kill abilities), of if they only have potent 'firepower'. Either one would work with the number of protectives.

 

[lokiduck]

Out of sim thought: I just realized that Gil's back up is both a great boon for town and also a curse depending on who dies first. If it's a good power like say the doc then town really benefits because he has a power he can motivate so three doc shots for town instead of two. Buttttttt if the snitch flips then LOL not that great. So it's kind of balanced in that way.

 

[lokiduck]

I guess the only thing we have to ask is if scum have a way to burst town down 2 targets at a time (multi-kill abilities), of if they only have potent 'firepower'. Either one would work with the number of protectives.

True...

 

[heymonkey]

(Don’t make me spoiler tag on mobile. How does it feel to play your own game?)

 

[heymonkey]

I guess the only thing we have to ask is if scum have a way to burst town down 2 targets at a time (multi-kill abilities), of if they only have potent 'firepower'. Either one would work with the number of protectives.

Linked question: how much havoc can town wreak on itself?

 

[Verelios]

Out of sim thought: I just realized that Gil's back up is both a great boon for town and also a curse depending on who dies first. If it's a good power like say the doc then town really benefits because he has a power he can motivate so three doc shots for town instead of two. Buttttttt if the snitch flips then LOL not that great. So it's kind of balanced in that way.

True, it was a good addition.

(Don’t make me spoiler tag on mobile. How does it feel to play your own game?)

Feels like I'm Apollo Justice. I'm FINE.

Linked question: how much havoc can town wreak on itself?

That's a consideration. Town can have some real negative utility roles to counteract the protection.

Spoiler

A few. Theres Nero's Thunderdome which can go very wrong. If Nero dies in the TD or after (haha), vengeful would trigger and can kill a random townie. That's 3 I suppose. Snitch can out a PR, giving scum a very good shot on someone expensive. That's 4.

 

[lokiduck]

(Don’t make me spoiler tag on mobile. How does it feel to play your own game?)

[It is definitely interesting. A flip by Sisigou's day one isn't as bad since 1. he can still vote, and 2. Gil gets his doctor shots... We asked whether Gil gets passives and because of the fact we don't want two restless spirits (or do we )I'd say it's safe to maybe not have him pick up passives. What do you think on that matter?

But also this flip does give town a lot of info about the game which is good for them to know.]

Linked question: how much havoc can town wreak on itself?

That certainly would be a good one to know. Maybe the added protection is to also help protect town from town?

 

[lokiduck]

That's a consideration. Town can have some real negative utility roles to counteract the protection.

Spoiler

A few. Theres Nero's Thunderdome which can go very wrong. If Nero dies in the TD or after (haha), vengeful would trigger and can kill a random townie. That's 3 I suppose. Snitch can out a PR, giving scum a very good shot on someone expensive. That's 4.

(Yep this power can go either way and that's great for balancing honestly. Also if we allow Gil to pick up passives, then if Caligula dies first then that'd mean Gil would get it.

Honestly because of that and the hilarity of 2 restless spirits (tho that doesn't help scum) I kind of want him to be able to pick up passives (plus isn't snitch a passive as well. Yeah he 100% needs to pick those up so he can get a dose of good or bad.)

 

[Verelios]

[It is definitely interesting. A flip by Sisigou's day one isn't as bad since 1. he can still vote, and 2. Gil gets his doctor shots... We asked whether Gil gets passives and because of the fact we don't want two restless spirits (or do we )I'd say it's safe to maybe not have him pick up passives. What do you think on that matter?

But also this flip does give town a lot of info about the game which is good for them to know.]

That certainly would be a good one to know. Maybe the added protection is to also help protect town from town?

So let's not give Gil passives. Having two restless spirits running around would be game breaking.

 

[Verelios]

(Yep this power can go either way and that's great for balancing honestly. Also if we allow Gil to pick up passives, then if Caligula dies first then that'd mean Gil would get it.

Honestly because of that and the hilarity of 2 restless spirits (tho that doesn't help scum) I kind of want him to be able to pick up passives (plus isn't snitch a passive as well. Yeah he 100% needs to pick those up so he can get a dose of good or bad.)

Oh, snitch is a passive. Hmmm. Now I'm conflicted. Adding that into the mix is mighty attractive.

 

[lokiduck]

So let's not give Gil passives. Having two restless spirits running around would be game breaking.

*points to post up top* we kind of need him to be able to for some powers at least since snitch and vengeful are passive.

Wait. Sisigou is listed only as a doc. His passive of Restless Spirit is not in his main job title. What if as a result Gil only gets the main power.

It'd be like if Zouken dies first. Zouken is a Jailer with a BP as an additional power not included in his main power list. Gil will get the Jailer shots but not the BP because it's not his main power.

Snitch is a passive but it's a main power so it can be transferred as can be vengeful.

 

[heymonkey]

So let's not give Gil passives. Having two restless spirits running around would be game breaking.

agreed

 

[heymonkey]

You don't have to do it with everyone. You can pick and choose and just put on the backup "the first obtainable power."

 

[heymonkey]

I mean, basically you are as gods. DO WHAT YOU WANT

 

[heymonkey]

Okay, real talk, d&d is tonight and tomorrow I get pretty busy again BUT I want to try to get this done. Let's keep a list of any small adjustments y'all want to make and when you're done with this one, let's flip one more? I like this method. I think it gives us a lot to look at and a cool way to see the game.

 

[lokiduck]

Okay, real talk, d&d is tonight and tomorrow I get pretty busy again BUT I want to try to get this done. Let's keep a list of any small adjustments y'all want to make and when you're done with this one, let's flip one more? I like this method. I think it gives us a lot to look at and a cool way to see the game.

I also want to get this done. XD

So here are somethings I was going to work on once the roster and powers were more finalized:
- What powers can the thief RB? what happens can she not? What are the items she will get even if she can't RB? What powers have items and what do not...
and now...
- What powers Gil can back up for and what can he not.

I feel like both of these items can be worked on at the same time. I just want to more or less finalize what powers we have so we know what to work with.

 

[lokiduck]

Or I can work on that. I'm not sure how to balance a game like this (and most of us agree it can be a bit unwieldy so maybe we should address this now. I mean since the Thief can maybe use the power she steals the following night (we agreed on that being a thing right?) we need to decide which powers she can do that with so Scum doesn't get two OP. >>

So yeah I'll put something together. Maybe a spreadsheet so it looks more easy to read.

Here is the spreadsheet

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1YmqRcL2qUie3n6Gmh-rfvbOGuJBy8W1n5P2Uudv_1Cs/edit?usp=sharing

@Verelios I will 100% need help with figuring out flavor fitting items for the powers.

 

[heymonkey]

I'll look tonight while playing. Yeah, I think we're at that point when it's good to work stuff out like that. Also without looking at the other sheet, do you have a list of just the potential night actions? I think we are close to balanced (I mean, as we're gonna get) but just seeing everything that can happen in a given night if all powers go off is a good final touch.

 

[heymonkey]

if it's already there just tell me and I'll look in the sheet you already had :D

 

[lokiduck]

I'll look tonight while playing. Yeah, I think we're at that point when it's good to work stuff out like that. Also without looking at the other sheet, do you have a list of just the potential night actions? I think we are close to balanced (I mean, as we're gonna get) but just seeing everything that can happen in a given night if all powers go off is a good final touch.

o7 I'll do that after I put together my full list of suggestions.

Edit... actually i should figure out the order of actions so we know for sure action wise what Drake can and cannot block LOL.

 

[heymonkey]

o7 I'll do that after I put together my full list of suggestions.

Edit... actually i should figure out the order of actions so we know for sure action wise what Drake can and cannot block LOL.

you have the guide, right? that helps

 

[lokiduck]

you have the guide, right? that helps

I'm using the list order i've used in the past yes. It's in the same spread sheet.

Speaking of.

Drake's thief power counts as a copy power if she gets a 1 shot of the ability she stole. So that means it goes first and will happen even if she can't RB someone.

That seems pretty powerful and that's fine, but we could limit her abilities by making it like how thieves have worked and making it that she can only copy the powers of those with an item.

So again what power do we want her to be able to not get. Keep in mind that if she can't, then she won't get a clue what power they do have.

 

[lokiduck]

This is what I have for night actions. Let me know if I missed something or got something wrong.

 

[lokiduck]

Okay I'm putting this together but I'm not sure about a lot of this.

@Verelios I'm getting food. but later do you maybe want to go through all of the powers on discord and discuss how Drake interacts with it?

We can also include you reviewers too, but we'd have to do it at a time when everyone is able to comment.

 

[Verelios]

Okay I'm putting this together but I'm not sure about a lot of this.

@Verelios I'm getting food. but later do you maybe want to go through all of the powers on discord and discuss how Drake interacts with it?

We can also include you reviewers too, but we'd have to do it at a time when everyone is able to comment.

I'm not near my laptop yet but totally, yeah. I left a few comments on the sheets page when you get around to it.

 

[lokiduck]

I'm not near my laptop yet but totally, yeah. I left a few comments on the sheets page when you get around to it.

Okay sounds good. c:

 

[lokiduck]

One thing I realized... if Gil gets the innocent master power from ??? dying...

His command is I AM THE RULES!!!

When he does it in thread, this video will be posted

followed by

"Everyone was minding their own damn business in this greater holy grail war (you may be wondering but yes I am 100% going to try and see how many times I can say greater holy grail war in flavor dialogue) when suddenly they heard a mad cackling and thus was revealed... the Great King of Heroes Gilgamesh!!! Now most who know the world's oldest bully wouldn't exactly call him good... but his bio says he is chaotic good so it must be true???

Player is town!

I'm pretty sure this outcome won't happen but I can dream can I :< I'll def post this in spec chat once it's revealed safely (aka open spoilers) that it could have XD

 

[lokiduck]

Okay I went through everything and made the spread sheet. Let me know guys what you think. XD

Need to figure out some items and review some things.

Some things we considered about Drake:
- She can't copy passives
- She can't RB: Day powers, passives, or commuters.
- Right now she can't copy anyone she can't RB (fits with flavor for how the power works. She can use the power because she steals the item from them which RB's them.)
- If she can copy the power she gets a shot she has to use the following night or it's gone forever (unless she steals again).
-Question: Can she RB command seals?
- No she can not copy them.
- Probably safer to not let her copy the Innocent Master shot... we don't want to pull a Geno XD. However, willing to discuss.

As for Gil:
-He can copy most powers except for passives not apart of the main power.
-We can take away more options if you think it makes him too OP.
-Yes he can do regular passives.
- He can't take on other peeps Command seals.

 

[heymonkey]

The switch isn't on the list. But I went through every action and everything but the deflect really has something that can counteract or interfere so I declare this game about as balanced as it's gonna get.

 

[heymonkey]

I do think it's slightly heavy on self-confirms, but there's enough interference and chaos to shed doubt, so I'm good with it! Keep tweaking but you have my tentative approval and I'll check again when you're done.

 

[lokiduck]

The switch isn't on the list. But I went through every action and everything but the deflect really has something that can counteract or interfere so I declare this game about as balanced as it's gonna get.

Oh shit i noticed that but forgot to add him LOL.

 

[lokiduck]

I do think it's slightly heavy on self-confirms, but there's enough interference and chaos to shed doubt, so I'm good with it! Keep tweaking but you have my tentative approval and I'll check again when you're done.

Thanks o7 In that case can you respond to my summary post for Drake and Gil? That was the largest questions i think I have currently. Vere and I can look over everything and see if we have any further questions while we wait on @Flush to also give his thoughts about it and if there's anything he wants to consider before approval.

 

[heymonkey]

Yeah, sorry, I wasn't sure if that was just for Vere or not and on limited time today so please let me know if I missed anything else.

Okay I went through everything and made the spread sheet. Let me know guys what you think. XD

Need to figure out some items and review some things.

Some things we considered about Drake:
- She can't copy passives
- She can't RB: Day powers, passives, or commuters.
- Right now she can't copy anyone she can't RB (fits with flavor for how the power works. She can use the power because she steals the item from them which RB's them.)
- If she can copy the power she gets a shot she has to use the following night or it's gone forever (unless she steals again).
-Question: Can she RB command seals?
- No she can not copy them.
- Probably safer to not let her copy the Innocent Master shot... we don't want to pull a Geno XD. However, willing to discuss.

As for Gil:
-He can copy most powers except for passives not apart of the main power.
-We can take away more options if you think it makes him too OP.
-Yes he can do regular passives.
- He can't take on other peeps Command seals.

I think this makes sense unless the commuters are shot-based, but since they aren't, then that tracks. I do not think she should be able to copy the Innocent. I don't understand "not apart of the main power" for Gil - clarify?

 

[Flush]

Okay I went through everything and made the spread sheet. Let me know guys what you think. XD

Need to figure out some items and review some things.

Some things we considered about Drake:
- She can't copy passives
- She can't RB: Day powers, passives, or commuters.
- Right now she can't copy anyone she can't RB (fits with flavor for how the power works. She can use the power because she steals the item from them which RB's them.)
- If she can copy the power she gets a shot she has to use the following night or it's gone forever (unless she steals again).
-Question: Can she RB command seals?
- No she can not copy them.
- Probably safer to not let her copy the Innocent Master shot... we don't want to pull a Geno XD. However, willing to discuss.

As for Gil:
-He can copy most powers except for passives not apart of the main power.
-We can take away more options if you think it makes him too OP.
-Yes he can do regular passives.
- He can't take on other peeps Command seals.

Drake:
I would probably phrase it in a way that she steals an item corresponding to an active power. I would be in favor of being able to use day powers, although there are some really powerful ones running around. If you want to do it, you should rephrase it such that the stolen power can be used until the end of the next night phase, not just during the next night phase, then you include the dayphase before. How is the flavor of servants commanding other servants? I'm ambivalent about stealing control seals, it doesn't make much of a difference balance wise, go for the better flavor (but be sure to say it explicitly in the PM if you exclude them). To circumvent the innocent problem, you could rephrase ???'s PM to "You will be revealed to be an Innocent Master and your alignment be known". But I have another question: If she copies an x-shot ability and all shots are already used, can she still use it?

Gil:
I would let him copy everything except the factional kill, but that's just my preference...

 

[lokiduck]

I think this makes sense unless the commuters are shot-based, but since they aren't, then that tracks.

Kintoki is a shot based commuter. Right now the only reason she can't copy his power is because she can't roleblock him since that's seems to be a consistent aspect with this role.

But if she can copy any shot based power aside from the Innocent Master shot then she would be able to copy it at least.

I do not think she should be able to copy the Innocent.

Agreed.

I don't understand "not apart of the main power" for Gil - clarify?

Right now all the powers Gil will get as a back up are the main power of a player. Example is Lartoria is listed as an Alignment cop so he gets her Alignment cop powers if she dies first.

But with Zouken who is listed as a Jailer (but as 1 BP as a passive) he gets only the Jailer shots.

With Sisigou who is listed as a Doctor but has a restless spirt passive and one Command seal, Gil only gets the Doctor Shots.

This was done because we don't want to have two Restless Spirits running around, but if we do then we can remove this restriction.

I would probably phrase it in a way that she steals an item corresponding to an active power. I would be in favor of being able to use day powers, although there are some really powerful ones running around. If you want to do it, you should rephrase it such that the stolen power can be used until the end of the next night phase, not just during the next night phase, then you include the dayphase before.

I'm not sure about this. Right now we have it that she only can use powers from those she roleblocks.

However, if we make it that because she's getting an item always, she can copy any power that has shots (so not passives) this making her able to also copy Kintoki's commuter shots, then she would be allowed to copy day powers as well.

So basically like I said to Monkey we have to decide balancing wise if we want her to only be able to copy x shots she roleblocks,

or if she can copy any x shot power aside from the Innocent Master including day powers.

But yes your idea about saying until the end of the next night phase makes sense.

How is the flavor of servants commanding other servants? I'm ambivalent about stealing control seals, it doesn't make much of a difference balance wise, go for the better flavor (but be sure to say it explicitly in the PM if you exclude them).

Command seals are tattooes on the hand of the master that disappear when used. They have three of them, meaning that if they use all three their contract with the servant ends. In these games we only give masters two command seals at most so that last bit never comes into gameplay LOL

Basically I do not think she should be able to steal command seals because that'd require chopping off the hand of the master (funny enough that has been done before >>) which is more permanent of a Roleblock LOL.

Mind you, flavor wise Drake seems to be able to steal more intangible objects as well to use the copyable powers (like Arjuna's flavor cop shots or Li's tracker shots) so technically she could do command seals too... I just don't see a reason to.

Like Gil, I kind of want her to only be able to steal abilities that are listed as their main power. She can copy a Jailer shot, but she can't get Zouken's BP for example.

To circumvent the innocent problem, you could rephrase ???'s PM to "You will be revealed to be an Innocent Master and your alignment be known".

That could work, but that also depends on us telling Drake what each of her copied shots do.

I think Vere suggested we just give her an item and tell her she can use it if she wants before the end of the next night phase, without telling her what it does.

That way scum doesn't learn automatically what the other person does and still have to guess.

But again she could only steal the Innocent master shot if we let her copy day powers so this may not be a concern.

But I have another question: If she copies an x-shot ability and all shots are already used, can she still use it?

I'm leaning towards her not getting a shot if they are all used up, but at the same time I don't see the harm in her always getting one since it's a one time deal. It would make her power powerful if she saves her shots to later game as she can pick someone with a claimed powerful role to use it even if they have used their shots.

Gil:
I would let him copy everything except the factional kill, but that's just my preference...

I am okay with this to except for the concern about two possible restless spirits in the game.

It's like super low that Sisigou will die first, but if we does then town permanently gets two extra votes all though their votes don't count towards the town total.

This means that while they can still vote, scum can still meet their wincon if they get enough town killed.

 

[lokiduck]

Pros and cons of just having Drake limited to powers she can roleblock.

Pros
- She has less options and targets that will give her something, but if she gets something it will most likely be good.
- That means her limited shots aren't wasted on a power she may not want.

Cons
- Powers are for the most part less provable or usable for a fake claim.

Pros and Cons of letting Drake copy every shot power even if she isn't roleblocking.

Cons
-Gives her more options if she selects the right targets with the shots. This is balanced in that she will only have 2-4 shots max the entire game depending on if she gets motivated by Xuanzang and Tokiomi.
-Makes her power more provable if she decides to claim it as she can copy a noticeable power like the double vote and use it the next day.
-Leads to the scum team being able to mess with more things or get more info depending on what power she gets.
- Chance of getting the commuter shot which can keep her alive for the night.

Cons
- Forces her into a certain claim based on what shots she get if she wants to prove her ability.
- She may get powers she considers useless or powers that are two noticeable for her liking.

If she knows what the item does:

Pros
- She can plan which powers she wants to use which helps with claims.
- Helps scum in general with planning night actions.
- Acts way more like a role cop power.

Cons
- Makes it too easy for scum team to figure out what someone's power is.


If she doesn't know what the item does:

Pros
- Balancing wise it makes it less obvious what someone's power is as it forces her to use it to find out.
- Makes it more of a risk as well which would help with allowing her to have access to more powers

Cons
- If she uses a power she didn't want she's forced into making a certain claim if it's a noticeable power.
- Makes using items more risky which may end up not helping the scum team.


---

Proposal:

Based on pros and cons we can decide which outcome is better of these combos. When deciding on whether she can copy only blockable powers or all shot powers, we will need to pick between if she knows or not to balance out said option so it doesn't make her power too powerful.

For example as I have said Her being limited to blockable only is mostly good powers but requires her hitting the right target, while her getting all shot powers means she's at more risk of wasting a shot on a power she may not want but she is more likely to get something.

Having her know helps with planning, but also makes it easier for the scum team to figure out what powers do. So personally I'd make it that she doesn't know if we give her the more powerful of the two options, but let her know what it does if she has the weaker.

What do all of you think about this?

 

[heymonkey]

Right now all the powers Gil will get as a back up are the main power of a player. Example is Lartoria is listed as an Alignment cop so he gets her Alignment cop powers if she dies first.

cool, cool, just didn't understand the phrasing there, gotcha

Kintoki is a shot based commuter.

lol I'm not saying shit else without the spreadsheet open in front of me. I forgot we had a shot-based.

 

[heymonkey]

---

Proposal:

Based on pros and cons we can decide which outcome is better of these combos. When deciding on whether she can copy only blockable powers or all shot powers, we will need to pick between if she knows or not to balance out said option so it doesn't make her power too powerful.

For example as I have said Her being limited to blockable only is mostly good powers but requires her hitting the right target, while her getting all shot powers means she's at more risk of wasting a shot on a power she may not want but she is more likely to get something.

Having her know helps with planning, but also makes it easier for the scum team to figure out what powers do. So personally I'd make it that she doesn't know if we give her the more powerful of the two options, but let her know what it does if she has the weaker.

What do all of you think about this?

If I don't circle back to this by tomorrow, ping me on discord, I don't want to forget.

 

[lokiduck]

cool, cool, just didn't understand the phrasing there, gotcha

Yeah i can be pretty wordy so it happens. Sorry :<

lol I'm not saying shit else without the spreadsheet open in front of me. I forgot we had a shot-based.

LOL we made them different to balance out their powers and to make them less powerful since 2 shot... All tho Kintoki is already weakened because he dies with his master.

Could always make him an Odd Commuter.

 

[lokiduck]

If I don't circle back to this by tomorrow, ping me on discord, I don't want to forget.

Okay o7.

 

[Flush]

I wasn't aware Drake wasn't supposed to know what she's stealing. I have to think about what it means...

But either way, you can't combine in-thread commands (like a double vote) with Drake not knowing what she copies, because, well, she has to post the specific command.

 

[lokiduck]

I wasn't aware Drake wasn't supposed to know what she's stealing. I have to think about what it means...

But either way, you can't combine in-thread commands (like a double vote) with Drake not knowing what she copies, because, well, she has to post the specific command.

As for knowing...

Drake's role in this variant at least is three aspects, it's a role cop (she receives an item and has to guess with her team who the character is flavor wise or power wise based on what it is) a roleblock (for the night that person is rb'd because they don't have their item), and a power copier (she gets to use said item for a limited time until the item is returned.)

Having her know what the power is because she's told makes it too obvious for the scum team and makes her a standard role cop, but you are also right about day powers...

If she gets day powers it makes more sense for her to know what she gets power wise so she gets the command to use in thread too and also so she doesn't get in trouble by doing something she doesn't wan to do.

 

[heymonkey]

re: Drake, here's the PM for reference:

The famous privateer, you sailed the seas stealing from powerful enemies to enrich England in the Carribean. You were a fierce Captain and now you are a powerful servant able to control your amazing ship the Golden Hind. All you know is the plan your gang has cooking up is a really sweet deal and you want in.

You are Sir Francis Drake and you are a 2 shot Thief.

You are a: Servant. Your class is Rider.
Your master is: (Tokiomi Tohsaka).
Your team is: The Einzberns.

You are out to steal the grail from under the noses of these suckers! (That is mafia)

During the night you can use the command Plunder: player. You will receive an item that is a clue about that player’s power. Certain powers will be roleblocked for the night and you will receive an x shot of that ability. You can only use that shot the following night otherwise you will lose it.

You can not use more than one ability a night and that includes the factional kill.

You are also a one sided lover! If you die, your master will continue living! But if your master dies, you die too! You have a night chat.

You will be modkilled if you reveal your lover in the main thread. Please read the game specific rules for more rules.

You can also vote!

The Scum team also has a factional kill. Just uses the command Kill: Player.

You win when scum takes up more than half of the remaining players.

Your scum partners:
The thread:
Scum Chat:
If you have questions please contact the game runners c:<

 

[heymonkey]

"During the night you can use the command Plunder: player. You will receive an item that is a clue about that player’s power. Certain powers will be roleblocked for the night and you will receive an x shot of that ability. You can only use that shot the following night otherwise you will lose it."

I'm just thinking through the wording, because we should make sure that's very clear, too. I feel like I have more perspective on this one now. Maybe:

During the night you can use the command Plunder: player. If successful, you will receive an item that is a clue about that player’s power. Certain powers will be roleblocked for the night and you will receive an x shot of that ability. You can only use that shot the following night otherwise you will lose it.

The bold indicates that not all powers can be stole.

The next line is stickier. Affected powers? will be roleblocked (which night? the night of the action or the next when you can use the item?) and you will receive a 1-shot limited copy of that power which can only be used on the following night.

Maybe better?

 

[heymonkey]

And then when we work out the list it's situational and you deal with it based on your list. Which really only has to be consistent in that it's what you want her to be able to take.

 

[lokiduck]

"During the night you can use the command Plunder: player. You will receive an item that is a clue about that player’s power. Certain powers will be roleblocked for the night and you will receive an x shot of that ability. You can only use that shot the following night otherwise you will lose it."

I'm just thinking through the wording, because we should make sure that's very clear, too. I feel like I have more perspective on this one now. Maybe:

During the night you can use the command Plunder: player. If successful, you will receive an item that is a clue about that player’s power. Certain powers will be roleblocked for the night and you will receive an x shot of that ability. You can only use that shot the following night otherwise you will lose it.

The bold indicates that not all powers can be stole.

The next line is stickier. Affected powers? will be roleblocked (which night? the night of the action or the next when you can use the item?) and you will receive a 1-shot limited copy of that power which can only be used on the following night.

Maybe better?

Yeah that works a lot better.

And then when we work out the list it's situational and you deal with it based on your list. Which really only has to be consistent in that it's what you want her to be able to take.

Really what makes the most sense to me is that Drake:
- can't copy passives because even if there's an item for that, it won't automatically give you that power.
- Personally i feel like she should only be able to steal items that are actually steal-able. Like she can't steal command seals because those are on people's hands, so why would she be able to steal other intangible stuff like Li's finely tuned martial arts skills that allow him to follow targets silently (aka the tracker shot)

So in some way i think we should actually further restrict what powers she can copy based on what the item is It'd help with balancing the power as well.

The issues with that is it limits what she can roleblock... tho her team also has a switch so maybe they can permanently RB someone she can't steal from.

Additionally it limits what she can steal which means which roles she can learn about.

If we go with this method then I think we should allow day powers but only ones that can be stolen, so the double vote is off the table.

Here I'll make a list in my next post of what she can steal item wise: And since we are limited what items can be stolen I'm perfectly okay with telling her what the item does if she copied the power.

 

[lokiduck]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TuCxgbJMSaiGXp239Imt0SVFgJ-q45MFHDG8r_hwih4/edit?usp=sharing

Added to the main roster. For this list.

I'll sum up stuff I saw.

31 powers listed

8 items can't be stolen: 23 can be (healthy pool of info tho some of that is the scum team LOL)
Town:
1.Captain
2.Tracker
3. Override
4. Vanilla

Neutral:
5. Survivor
6. Self watcher
7. Double Vote
8. Divine Cop

Good for our neutrals honestly as all of them can't have their power figured out except for Medea if her wincon switches and she gets the mason maker power. That item can be stolen, RB'd, and Copied.

This also keeps three powerful town powers out of scum hands.

If you feel that is too much (I think it's good they can't have Captain but willing to negotiate Override and Tracker).

15 powers she can roleblock:
Town:
1. Mailman
2. Jailer
3. Gladiator
4. lightning rod
5. Doctor
6. Innocent Master
7. Reporter*
8. Alignment Cop
9. Vig

Neutral:
10. Mason Maker

Scum:
11. Switch
12. Motivator
13. Strongman
14. Janitor
15. Deflector

5 of those powers are scum but this does give scum options as they could have her copy Xuanzang's motivate shot one night to use it the next night!!! That and getting some action at other powers.

Like say the scum team has a plan to use an already suspected team member as a scapegoat.

Drake steals from them that night and the player does in fact die, then Drake can use the shot she copied!!!

Anyways good supply of powers she can RB. Can only RB one netural. Seems fair.

16 powers she can copy:
Town:
1. Mailman
2. Jailer
3. Gladiator
4. lightning rod
5. Doctor
6. Innocent Master
7. Reporter*
8. Alignment Cop
9. Vig
10. Commuter shot**

Neutral:
11. Mason Maker

Scum:
12. Switch
13. Motivator
14. Strongman
15. Janitor
16. Deflector

Lots of powers, not all of them will be useful to scum. Again scum can plan some shit with their own powers.

*Reporter. Here is my proposal. The Reporter's item is steal-able. So:

- If the Reporter picks Night report then they are not RB'd the night their item is stolen from as the reporter has to share their report with the game runners before actions lock. However because Drake has the microphone the following night, The reporter is RB'd then. It's basically a delayed RB.

- If the reporter picks Dawn report, then they are RB'd immediately because they will not have their microphone. The Thief is then told at action lock that they can write a report for down if they elect to as they get the item. However they will not be able to use it if they do not use it during that time period. This sucks if the player in question isn't around but it makes sense flavor wise. The reporter can report the following dawn.

In both cases, Drake is given the option to write the report and of course if it's the dawn report then they personally will be told who died (meaning they learn early if their kill worked lol). If that's too much power then we can just give them the option to report.

**Since Kintoki has an item and is an x shot his motor cycle can be stolen but only one nights he is not using it (it's the same for Iri). However, while he can't be RB'd due to action order, I do think Drake should be allowed to copy his power in this case???

The issue with this is that so far Drake can only copy items she can RB (if she can steal the item).

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[heymonkey]

The issues with that is it limits what she can roleblock... tho her team also has a switch so maybe they can permanently RB someone she can't steal from.

Additionally it limits what she can steal which means which roles she can learn about.

There are always things in a came that can't be roleblocked or affected, like day powers and passives. I think this is fine.

I like the list. The microphone is risky for the thief but it will be interesting to see if that comes up.

 

[lokiduck]

There are always things in a came that can't be roleblocked or affected, like day powers and passives. I think this is fine.

I like the list. The microphone is risky for the thief but it will be interesting to see if that comes up.

True but Drake doesn't have to use it of course. All shots she copies don't have to be used just like Gudako's innocent master shot LOL (which like Flush suggested I have labeled as revealing your alignment)

I'm glad you like it :D :D :D

@Verelios @Flush I'd like your opinion guys on the list.

I think once everything approves this we may be done? or is there something else you wanted Monkey?

 

[Verelios]

True but Drake doesn't have to use it of course. All shots she copies don't have to be used just like Gudako's innocent master shot LOL (which like Flush suggested I have labeled as revealing your alignment)

I'm glad you like it :D :D :D

@Verelios @Flush I'd like your opinion guys on the list.

I think once everything approves this we may be done? or is there something else you wanted Monkey?

The list looks good. I hope drake steals innocent master though, haha.

 

[lokiduck]

"During the night you can use the command Plunder: player. You will receive an item that is a clue about that player’s power. Certain powers will be roleblocked for the night and you will receive an x shot of that ability. You can only use that shot the following night otherwise you will lose it."

I'm just thinking through the wording, because we should make sure that's very clear, too. I feel like I have more perspective on this one now. Maybe:

During the night you can use the command Plunder: player. If successful, you will receive an item that is a clue about that player’s power. Certain powers will be roleblocked for the night and you will receive an x shot of that ability. You can only use that shot the following night otherwise you will lose it.

The bold indicates that not all powers can be stole.

The next line is stickier. Affected powers? will be roleblocked (which night? the night of the action or the next when you can use the item?) and you will receive a 1-shot limited copy of that power which can only be used on the following night.

Maybe better?

I used the info you posted here for Drake's PM, but changed the last part to "You can use the shot until the end of the following night otherwise you will lose it."

that way day powers she was allowed can be counted.

 

[lokiduck]

The list looks good. I hope drake steals innocent master though, haha.

The way i figure innocent master in there is a way of fucking up scum plans for the night. THey have a good chance at getting a lot of good powers like the vig shot or jailer shots, but they can also waste one of their shots getting something like Innocent master or a obvious power like the reporter. I think it helps balancing the roll

Mind you... Drake could use the shot to confirm she's scum and then be bussed XD If her last thief shot was used on said power. they could pretend she didn't know what it would do LOL.

 

[lokiduck]

I hope you guys like the fact i purposely made it so Drake can't get the override LOL. I figured the vig shot and thunderdome were enough.

Also how is this for a crazy play? Drake steals from Nero and gets the thunderdome shot and by sheet coincidence Nero didn't use it so is unaware. Drake then uses the shot the same night Nero plans too and targets Nero forcing a thunderdome between them, all while Nero thinks she got just got switched.

However, in this scenario Nero has been pretty scum read and was relying on her power to confirm her while Drake is fairly deep wolf.

So everyone thinking Nero picked Drake is sus. XD

 

[lokiduck]

If she has her copied shot till the end of the next night... does that mean she RB's any day power she can steal from that isn't a passive?

Aka ??? Innocent master shot? ??? needs her phone to roll the gacha so I'd say yes.

 

[heymonkey]

I hope you guys like the fact i purposely made it so Drake can't get the override LOL. I figured the vig shot and thunderdome were enough.

I agree it's enough.

 

[Flush]

Command seals, fine, but having a list of powers ruled out based on flavor feels arbitrary. It's pure luck that the list of untouchable players turned out to be decent. Monkey's phrasing of Drake's role PM makes it at least somewhat clear that that's what's going on, but I still feel like there should be a phrase like "Some players can't be stolen from".

Anyway, the end result is not a problem balance wise, so you can go ahead with the list.

 

[lokiduck]

Command seals, fine, but having a list of powers ruled out based on flavor feels arbitrary. It's pure luck that the list of untouchable players turned out to be decent. Monkey's phrasing of Drake's role PM makes it at least somewhat clear that that's what's going on, but I still feel like there should be a phrase like "Some players can't be stolen from".

Anyway, the end result is not a problem balance wise, so you can go ahead with the list.

I'll add the (some players can't be stolen from) o7.

Do you have any other concerns with the game or do you think we are done?

 

[lokiduck]

Sooooooo how is everyone one? :D I realized we hadn't talked since tuesday and wanted to see if we could move things along soon.

 

[heymonkey]

I been done! As long as those little adjustments get made and you have all your other stuff or plans to get it together (description, banner, etc), I'm done.

 

[lokiduck]

I been done! As long as those little adjustments get made and you have all your other stuff or plans to get it together (description, banner, etc), I'm done.

:D :D :D What were the little adjustments?

Also I don't think we have ever done a banner LOL, we just let someone make an awesome one for us. XD

Description wise I think I wrote a mock one, but I can write a new one.

"It's that time again!!! Time for another Holy Grail War! However there's a special twist this time! The Esteemed and mysterious Einzebern family has gotten their hands on Greater Holy Grail and have issued a challenge against the Mages' Association to see that it is fully realized. Now two teams of 7 masters and their 7 servants will compete to see which side will win the grail!!! Like the first game, this game will use the One sided lovers mechanic and command seals.

To also sweeten the pot... there is a special unique town bonus win con that will give the winners bonus bragging rights! So if you love backstabbing and blood shed, then please sign up to participate in the Greater Holy Grail War!!!"

 

[heymonkey]

:D :D :D What were the little adjustments?

Just the thing Flushie was talking about with phrasing!

 

[lokiduck]

Just the thing Flushie was talking about with phrasing!

Oh I already did that :D

 

[heymonkey]

Then get Flush to approve and we can call this one DONE.

 

[lokiduck]

Then get Flush to approve and we can call this one DONE.

:D

@Flush Do you approve of the changes we made?

 

[Flush]

Mechanically I think we're fine.

One more thing that came to my mind yesterday: Does Scum need fakeclaims? i.e. is the game flavor-solvable if everybody posts their role name (not their role itself, just the flavor name)? afaik the Scum/Town line isn't drawn based on source material alignment (in which case we wouldn't need fake claims), but I wanted to make sure.

 

[lokiduck]

Mechanically I think we're fine.

One more thing that came to my mind yesterday: Does Scum need fakeclaims? i.e. is the game flavor-solvable if everybody posts their role name (not their role itself, just the flavor name)? afaik the Scum/Town line isn't drawn based on source material alignment (in which case we wouldn't need fake claims), but I wanted to make sure.

Vere and I have already talked about this.

The servants are all fine as while Billy the kid is an outlaw and Drake is a pirate that was also a villain in one fate property, both are good guys in general.

The master's is a mixed bag.

Kiritsugu was basically the protag of Fate/Zero however, he is the magus killer for a reason LOL. He does some pretty fucked up shit in Fate/Zero so like most masters he could be believable to be scum.

What saves him however is in said series, Kirei is the main antagonist to him as a lot of the story focuses on how different and similar the two men are and Kirei is an all out horrible bastard.

Additionally, his wife and daughter are town (we justify him being scum via him not hooking up with Irisviel in this world and Ilya being from an alternate universe).

Both Kirei and Kiritsugu could get a pass if the other one flips first. Tokiomi might get a pass since Zouken (a man he has worked with) is town and if Kiritsugu flips first but not so much if Kirei does because the two of them worked together (tho Kirei killed him so maybe not)

Basically:

- Kiritsugu has the best chance of passing a name claim out of the scum masters especially since his immediate family are town.
- Tokiomi is fine if Zouken or Kerry flips first
- Kirei has the worst chance of passing based on being an antagionist in serval fate stories.

However... because characters like Shinji and Zouken are town even in this case Tokiomi and Kirei may also get a pass. That was part of why we made Kiritsugu scum and made Shinji and Zouken town LOL.

Out of Kirei, Tokiomi, Zouken, and Shinji Kirei and Zouken are the worst out of the bunch, and Zouken is town so he'll probably get more shit that Tokiomi or Kiritsugu.

TLDR: Servants are fine. Kiritsugu probably does not need a fake claim, but Tokiomi and especially Kirei may want fake claims just in case. Vere and I can give them some masters to use and they don't have to if they don't want to. But if Zouken gets a lot of shit and even gets voted out then they will have those fake claims to use so the same doesn't happen to them.

 

[lokiduck]

I woke up in a frenzy debating if Drake will be notified if she's been roleblocked. LOL

General plan there is her results are

1. You stole an item! The item is ... You can use the item once! The power is ... You have until the end of tomorrow night to use it!
2. You stole an item! The item is ... You did not get a power.
3. You cannot steal an item. Your shop has been refunded.
4. No result. Your shot has been refunded.

In my personal opinion her shot should only count as used if she receives an item (even if she doesn't get a power from it). But for powers she can't steal from she gets refunded.

However, if balancing you think I should only have her get refunded for roleblocks since with option 3 she is receiving a result (it's just nothing useful at all happens) then that's fine.

Other thing I'm going to work on is making a list of which powers Sherlock can captain so I can RNG the list of three for him every day phase based on who is still alive. Based on that he can only captain 10 powers which is a pretty healthy number and a good mix of town, scum, and neutrals. He will be getting a lot of Investors LOL there are 4 total, 2 of which are non-town. I will die laughing if I some how RNG 3 investigators on day 1.

Any time a dupe power type comes up I will number them so Holmes can select a specific one. The number will be absed on the three slots not their number in general so Holmes will never learn fully how many of each power there are.


But other than my drake question I am 100% ready for this game to be approved.

 

[Flush]

I would deplete a shot even if she doesn't steal an item.

1. You stole an item! The item is ... You can use the item once! The power is ... You have until the end of tomorrow night to use it!

I thought she wasn't supposed to know which power it was, just an hint by the item? According to

As for knowing...

Drake's role in this variant at least is three aspects, it's a role cop (she receives an item and has to guess with her team who the character is flavor wise or power wise based on what it is) a roleblock (for the night that person is rb'd because they don't have their item), and a power copier (she gets to use said item for a limited time until the item is returned.)

Having her know what the power is because she's told makes it too obvious for the scum team and makes her a standard role cop, but you are also right about day powers...

If she gets day powers it makes more sense for her to know what she gets power wise so she gets the command to use in thread too and also so she doesn't get in trouble by doing something she doesn't wan to do.

 

[lokiduck]

I would deplete a shot even if she doesn't steal an item.


I thought she wasn't supposed to know which power it was, just an hint by the item? According to

o7 Then only getting roleblocked gives her a shop refund.

We decided later (or I did at least) that because she gets the innocent master shot (flavored maybe as corrupt servant shot LOL) she should know what her power shots do.

It makes her more of a regular rolecop for the powers she can copy from, but it's more fair as some of the verifiable powers she can copy like the reporter or thunderdome may fuck up her plans.

Like imagine a world where she's safely deepwolfing and has used one of her shots even to make her seem this way (like copying the alignment cop and having Kirei hide said cops PM after they kill her so she can't be CC) and she uses a shot on ??? and then uses the cell only to be confirmed as scum.

Not to mention the day powers will be hard to do without telling what the power is.

The only way I can think of doing it is if we do it like this.

"You stole an item! The item is a Holy Lance! This is a night power. You have until the end of tomorrow night to use it."

"You stole an item! The item is a Cellphone ! This is a day power. Use the command ROLL THE GACHA in the main thread. You have until tonight to use it.

For day powers she can use the command given by us and it'll work automatically. For night powers she uses the night and the item and during the dawn phase we quickly ask who she wishes to target??? that'd require her player to be around.

Seee telling them what the power does makes it easier for processing the command night power wise at least... unlesss....

"You stole an item! The item is a Holy Lance ! This is a night power. Use the command Lance: Player to use it. You have until the end of tomorrow night to use it."

"You stole an item! The item is a Talent Show poster ! This is a night power. Use the command I challenge you to a duel!: player. You have until the end of tomorrow night to use it."



Yeah that works better.

So @heymonkey @Verelios @Flush Last decision of this game... Which works better for you.

Spoiler: Option one

Option one: Drake does not learn what power she has gotten but just receives the item and the command along with when it can be used.

"You stole an item! The item is a Holy Lance! This is a night power. Use the command Lance: Player to use it. You have until the end of tomorrow night to use it."

"You stole an item! The item is a Talent Show poster! This is a night power. Use the command I challenge you to a duel!: player You have until the end of tomorrow night to use it."

"You stole an item! The item is a cellphone! This is a day power to use cell phone use the command ROLL THE GACHA in the main thread. You have until tonight to use it.

"You stole an item! The item is a Father of the year mug! There is no power!"

pros: Easy command use for game runner while keeping it a secret. Command might clue in on what the power is, but it may not. For example they may think the holy lance shot is a vig shot.

cons: There's a risk of her not knowing what a power does and then being forced to use and it fucking her plans. However, because the power is public, she may be more cautious about using the item.

Spoiler: Option 2

Option two: Drake does know what the power is if she gets it.

"You stole an item! The item is a Talent Show Poster! This is a gladiator shot! Use the command I challenge you to a duel!: playerto use it. You have until the end of the following night to use it.

Pro: Less risk of plans being foiled.

Con: She is a more traditional rolecop and easily learns someone's role, it's just the flavor that leads to more speculation.

Based on what has been presented. I prefer Option one I think. There's a lot more risk involved but it keeps scum speculating and I'm sure scum will be smart enough to figure out whether using a public command is a good idea or not.

Really the biggest concern is the innocent master shot.

 

[Verelios]

I think option 1 is better and fits her flavor of stealing and not necessarily knowing what she stole yet.

 

[lokiduck]

I think option 1 is better and fits her flavor of stealing and not necessarily knowing what she stole yet.

:D Then that probably settles it if we both agree. Still will wait to see what our reviewers think :D

They can approve the game with this final opinion. :D :D :D

 

[heymonkey]

I think option 1 is better and fits her flavor of stealing and not necessarily knowing what she stole yet.

Agreed here.

 

[lokiduck]

One more reviewer and we done.

 

[Flush]

Okay.

Go ahead.

 

[lokiduck]

We are done! Then. \o/

Thank you guys for everything!