Verelios
Were-elios
So you're in favor of making an example out of him. I don't know. Polter has been suspicious to me however those are on grounds separate from his anti-town move.
Mason Thread Roman Brothers
- Thread starter Geno
- Start date
Verelios
Were-elios
Depends on how lucky they are. It might be possible while not being feasible.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
O the innocent times!
Verelios
Were-elios
Fanto certainly is detached, a bit indifferent this game. I don't know what to make of it. Town and scum fanto usually puts in a lot more effort into analysis, but what really makes me pause is that she isn't indecisive. That's uncharacteristic of town Fanto.
She should have checked, thought about it, re-checked and wavered on the read instead of being so sure of it. That doesn't seem like normal Fanto. Fanto goes into the trenches for people but will pop back out to question them or ponder.
Verelios
Were-elios
Man, Jman is actively anti-town. He needs to go.
Depending on what Fanto flips up, it's very possible that it was a rush to save launch. WIFOM also tells us that we can't be sure it wasn't coordinated to give off that impression.
Verelios
Were-elios
Ohhhhhhhh motherfucking egg!
Hm, I vaguely remember that it was either Uzzy/Hawthorne/Terra/Ambulance that said it really surely. Is that right?
Verelios
Were-elios
I wouldn't put it past Fanto.
What are your thoughts on Launch and Hawthorn? Do you think they're definitely opposed?
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
I want to say that there is no definite there. Clearing one does not clear the other. Both lost battalions in that take and retake, but why should we care when we don't know how much that even matters for night actions?
Hawthorn's reasoning felt like it was missing a piece of the why, the act itself was hella opportunistic and she echoed both Polter and Jman in her defense. Looking at this right now, it looks at least slightly convincing and I do moderately regret not voting there. Then again, I did feel the Kopite swerve and I was greatly unnerved when the same swing came again minutes before the end but for Hawthorn this time.
FYI if you ever need to attack a lone general, I think Polter was right that attacking with 2 instead of 1 is right.
Hawthorn's reasoning felt like it was missing a piece of the why, the act itself was hella opportunistic and she echoed both Polter and Jman in her defense. Looking at this right now, it looks at least slightly convincing and I do moderately regret not voting there. Then again, I did feel the Kopite swerve and I was greatly unnerved when the same swing came again minutes before the end but for Hawthorn this time.
FYI if you ever need to attack a lone general, I think Polter was right that attacking with 2 instead of 1 is right.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
By look I mean it has been more than a decade since I did any meaningful math so I have come to the conclusion that I don't trust my own calculations about the casualties at all. At least it was a fun waste of time. I now want to say that going with 2 is the better option by a margin of few casualties (unless you roll really lucky), but I'd really want to hear that from someone who understands something about probabilities lol. If the situation arises, I'll just attack with two and pretend I know what I am doing.
Verelios
Were-elios
Well, probabilities were never my strong suit so I'll take your word on it.
I think Hawthorn is an interesting case. There was a post from her near day end, maybe two pages from there, where I had to stop and ask if she was threatening us. That's not town behavior. At the same time the push for her started so abruptly and consolidated so quickly that it seemed artificial.
Launch felt slightly better in the latter half of day 2. It could've been him course correcting after getting told how scummy he was acting. If it was then that's unsettling.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Lauch did attain the coveted position of a bitch eating crackers on D2. Or so I thought, but come day end there was a notable crowd going all "I don't want Launch, he is town I think." So much of it comes down to people not having votes down earlier.
What do you think about using Risk to eliminate Jman today? He did say he might get something done in two nights, I'd hear that out and then kill him when he says that he wasn't able to do it. Launch too should be eliminated, but I am not sure how much faith town has in flipping trains right now after the Polter episode.
Fran too speculated about Puppetmon being a scum thing and he eventually changed his stance to Jman is neutral and Egg is his power.
What do you think about using Risk to eliminate Jman today? He did say he might get something done in two nights, I'd hear that out and then kill him when he says that he wasn't able to do it. Launch too should be eliminated, but I am not sure how much faith town has in flipping trains right now after the Polter episode.
Fran too speculated about Puppetmon being a scum thing and he eventually changed his stance to Jman is neutral and Egg is his power.
Verelios
Were-elios
I forgot about Fran. He was adamantly sure Jman was scum but then suddenly jumped to being sure he was neutral. It could have been a work that didn't pan out from him.
As for Jman, yeah, if he walks back in with nothing to show today then I don't mind him getting BTFO. We gave him a chance and he didn't want to take it. Instead he sniped a chance at Uzzy's spot.
Verelios
Were-elios
There's a big possibility of this being true.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
There was a deal for this. I still think Jman needs to have land on two or more continents for some weird purpose.
Verelios
Were-elios
There was a deal? When was it?
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Uzzy agrees to the takeover in #3300.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Wee too thought that Egg was neutral and wanted Puppetmon dead. Lyncher with Jman as a target or just wee being wee? More than a half of her posts are about the the weird shit on the board; the scorched land, Egg and Puppetmon, Launch's traps, even nin's inaction to claim GB. She suspects Launch's claim but ends up thinking Launch is not scum.
Verelios
Were-elios
I don't think there's anything to the difference between the two events other than being seemingly time based. It's kind of odd that a fire started adjacent to GB, so either it really was a coincidence that Chuggs was hit the same night, someone can choose where the fire hits, or the fire spreads to the surrounding territories randomly.
Also, didn't Launch go on about his PR having precedence or something? So shouldn't Puppetmon lose all but one if he used the ability?
Verelios
Were-elios
She did? Hold up, I need to go read that.
Verelios
Were-elios
How do we know that? Could it just not be reflected in the map right now? It would be weird for Geno to announce the NK so early. Then again, I'm sure he doesn't want to do that map bullshit again so maybe you're right.
Verelios
Were-elios
As of now, slight scum read. She comes across weird over posts this game, like on one hand her reads are law but on the other hand she doesn't want to explain why that's so. We're basically having to take her on her word. I think what that boils down to for me is that Wee is acting very confidently. Not, I know my stuff confident, but Of course that's so confident.
Verelios
Were-elios
If he was a weak hider then he'd have enough information for us to whittle down the pool of suspects. Ghost makes sense except for the usage and conditions Jman said.
Verelios
Were-elios
Man, I wonder if spec is calling us idiots at this point.
Verelios
Were-elios
Oh my god, that would be insane. We'd need to turn the whole game on its head.
Verelios
Were-elios
At least you won't have to worry about getting backstabbed.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
I can buy it as a edge case at least. One way to look at it would be to think us as a unit that will not create conflict over it, it's not 1+1+1 but 2+1. Another way that I have in my mind is that Geno might've tailored different continents to different purposes. Both of the known territories that supposedly are shared between multiple players are in Europe, maybe Europe just has that as its theme of sorts. Wee supposedly wants most if not all of Asia, that's pretty thematic on its own.
Verelios
Were-elios
I want to see what Blarg has to say about the SiC situation before thinking this through.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
To some extent, you'd be expected to mention that you too want SE. It'd be new information and a possible contradiction against Blarg (and me). Someone could connect the dots though, we have been a bit buddy-buddy in our interactions. You'd need to fake at least a little suspicion toward me as well.
If he flip Alex of town though, I become at least a bit suspicious if you mention this. In addition, I become quite suspicious if I participate in the Blarg kill.
If he flip Alex of town though, I become at least a bit suspicious if you mention this. In addition, I become quite suspicious if I participate in the Blarg kill.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
I am not sure if it is the play to claim SE as your country of origin. It really is about the read - is he scum? He could be. If I had to bet right now, I'd say he is scum. If he flips scum, good. If he flips as Alexander of Town from Southern Europe, that's some unnecessary heat on us.
I get the feeling that Blarg's death can be achieved without you mentioning it and I also think that mentioning it can backfire. It is hard to say. Perhaps I underestimate how odd it is that three people would share a territory of origin. Perhaps I overestimate the heat that we'd get in the worst case scenario. After all, why would you or I fake such a minuscule detail? There is no purpose in that. And three people sharing a territory of origin is something that should in reality be judged by all town, not just us.
But. Territory of origin will lead to name claims. That is a biiiiiig no. That's too much information. Two emperors, sharing a province, being all friendly to each other and reading each other as town, I wonder what that could be. Silence is golden here I think.
I get the feeling that Blarg's death can be achieved without you mentioning it and I also think that mentioning it can backfire. It is hard to say. Perhaps I underestimate how odd it is that three people would share a territory of origin. Perhaps I overestimate the heat that we'd get in the worst case scenario. After all, why would you or I fake such a minuscule detail? There is no purpose in that. And three people sharing a territory of origin is something that should in reality be judged by all town, not just us.
But. Territory of origin will lead to name claims. That is a biiiiiig no. That's too much information. Two emperors, sharing a province, being all friendly to each other and reading each other as town, I wonder what that could be. Silence is golden here I think.
Verelios
Were-elios
These are all good points. I do think town will try and kill one of us the moment I claim that, to the extent that we might have to tell them we're masons. It doesn't seem worth it if Blarg is already self-imploding. If Blarg ever flips town then I do want to tell town though, so that they know it's possible.
You are right, the problem is that I relied on the vote tool before the game started and it doesn't work when day end comes. It's not an excuse I know.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
I don't fault Geno for needing time. What I don't like is that giving these extensions changes the game. It was on Tearable to claim before t minus 10. Time usage is a part of the game. Uzzy was supposed to die. The extension gave us the chance to change the lynch. It does not matter if the new lynch target is better for one side or not, what matters it that the target changed. That is not supposed to happen in my opinion.
Agreed, like I said I got no excuse, I'll do better next time, that's a promise.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
I have renewed my interest again, but I don't know how long that will last. I don't think there was any point in talking down the Hedin vote, better him dead than you. Can always claim tomorrow if the heat comes your way. Might even want to claim early to clear the air and to make people re-evaluate their targets.
There's a beginning now, something that we did not have before.
Verelios
Were-elios
Yeah, you're right.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Again, holy hell town. It takes a t minus 10 cop red check to get people to talk.
Ynnek is not scum, that's for sure.
Launch is extremely opportunistic again and I want him dead again.
Kalor was cleared, good, he can be hard to read.
We have a scum flip to analyze for game mechanics. Can consider if wee, Kopite and Jman make sense now.
We also have Uzzy's claim to think about.
Ynnek is not scum, that's for sure.
Launch is extremely opportunistic again and I want him dead again.
Kalor was cleared, good, he can be hard to read.
We have a scum flip to analyze for game mechanics. Can consider if wee, Kopite and Jman make sense now.
We also have Uzzy's claim to think about.
Verelios
Were-elios
We can consider this if it really gets bad tomorrow. I'd like to see what arguments everyone have though, so we can reference them later.
Verelios
Were-elios
I'm also kind of confused, and am left wondering why Launch would snipe the last vote in that scenario, under that pressure, with no reason.
Verelios
Were-elios
Well, I can empathize. Town wants people to tell them what to do, while scum love nothing more than letting other people guide the conservation. It's no surprise that they let themselves get more chatty when the news came up.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Launch is playing well regardless of his alignment, he's playing to survive. Maybe he sniped Hedin to get a third territory so that Puppetmon couldn't prevent him from laying down a trap again. Maybe he also wants to go for Congo for his bonus, he supposedly has a special attack waiting for him there.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
Uzzy is a vigilante who uses others to do the work for her. If she can do it again, can she be scum? I can see scum having a chance (a chance because the kill is not certain because of the uncertainty in the rolls) for a single additional kill, but more than one? Two shots max.
If it is a scum ability, was it used in a scummy manner? No, she chose two armies of almost equal size. But there wasn't that many good picks for a kill either. Going into N2 action lock, the only clear chances for a kill were Kopite-Hawthorne (+6), Stan-Natiko (+4) and Fran-Blarg (+3). The middle one would've never been picked of course.
The final thing to consider is that she did imply some interest in flipping nin. The idea that scum wanted to masquerade as benevolent townies flipping unknowns is not impossible but it feels hard to believe. It feels like going with the conclusion first and then working the events to support it, instead of the other way around as it is supposed to be done.
If it is a scum ability, was it used in a scummy manner? No, she chose two armies of almost equal size. But there wasn't that many good picks for a kill either. Going into N2 action lock, the only clear chances for a kill were Kopite-Hawthorne (+6), Stan-Natiko (+4) and Fran-Blarg (+3). The middle one would've never been picked of course.
The final thing to consider is that she did imply some interest in flipping nin. The idea that scum wanted to masquerade as benevolent townies flipping unknowns is not impossible but it feels hard to believe. It feels like going with the conclusion first and then working the events to support it, instead of the other way around as it is supposed to be done.
Verelios
Were-elios
I think Nat needed to be flipped because of the RC and the extra time duration meant it was very likely for him to die either by kill or lunch. Since it was an inevitability, it's NAI.
Kyanrute
kyan-rute
The inevitability of it is NAI, I agree, but Ynnek's reaction, that was quite fast in my opinion. Could be that he was desperate for that sweet town karma. Could also be that the meanies had planned for the inevitable moment of inter-faction combat and concluded that the winner, the first to act, takes all.
I just feel that his reaction speed was more of an instinct than something planned.
I just feel that his reaction speed was more of an instinct than something planned.