Cult Thread Baby Vegeta's Chat

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Unfortunately, we're both on the table for a night kill tonight, too.

I still think Vere and Muffin are sketchy. They probably inherited the kills, if I had to guess.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Recruitment pool, leaving out the sketchy neutrals and Sorian the mirror:

Aeleus
Zippedpinhead
Jman
Terraforce
Brazil
Natiko
TheChuggernaut

-Zipped will probably be killed soon
-Natiko might be part of whatever non-town faction besides us is remaining. I'm still suspicious of that commute claim, and we've now tried to recruit him twice. I feel like trying a third
-Aeleus seems super suspicious, and people will think that they're part of the remaining mystery faction, which they actually might be.

Which leaves:

Jman
Terraforce
Brazil
TheChuggernaut

None of them have claimed protectice abilities AFAIK. Chuggernaut? Zipped will protect him against NKs, but I don't think against recruitment shots.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Recruitment pool, leaving out the sketchy neutrals and Sorian the mirror:

Aeleus
Zippedpinhead
Jman
Terraforce
Brazil
Natiko
TheChuggernaut

-Zipped will probably be killed soon
-Natiko might be part of whatever non-town faction besides us is remaining. I'm still suspicious of that commute claim, and we've now tried to recruit him twice. I feel like trying a third
-Aeleus seems super suspicious, and people will think that they're part of the remaining mystery faction, which they actually might be.

Which leaves:

Jman
Terraforce
Brazil
TheChuggernaut

None of them have claimed protectice abilities AFAIK. Chuggernaut? Zipped will protect him against NKs, but I don't think against recruitment shots.
lol I was considering going again for Natiko.

Chugg is kinda sketchy without knowing who revived him ngl. Those are some good choices otherwise.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Unfortunately, we're both on the table for a night kill tonight, too.

I still think Vere and Muffin are sketchy. They probably inherited the kills, if I had to guess.

Yeah, that's a concern. I don't have any protective abilities among my powers. If there was time I could have attacked Vere and Muffin twice to roleblock them-- I can do that tomorrow if necessary.

How are you on bells? Close to getting the mansion, or do you think it's worth it for the pocket?

I can also use my risk ability tomorrow, but need to think it through. My guess is that it puts us all in countries and allows us to day attack like in Risk. I would bet that we could influence discussion towards taking out Muffin and Vere or at least one of them. But I have this feeling like Maol would tell me not to use that ability no matter how cool it seems, I don't know what it does, and with only two we have to seem impeccably townie.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
lol I was considering going again for Natiko.

Chugg is kinda sketchy without knowing who revived him ngl. Those are some good choices otherwise.

True, and it seemed like he *couldn't* talk about it. The way he was like "I have no further information to relate at this time." There's more to it than what he said.
 
My guess is that it puts us all in countries and allows us to day attack like in Risk
That's a pretty good guess, I couldn't say it during the day phase because you're not meant to use it the same day you receive it, but now it's ok. That's what it does, puts everyone in countries with battalions and can kill each other, there's 3 minibosses with a lot of battalions that grant loot.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I mean that would be really fun. Everybody has already pretty much guessed/assumed that I have the map. If I come into the thread like, hey I got this new ability, I feel like we're really in the dark with few leads after the implication that there's a second mafia/anti-town faction, I really feel like the ability to attack could reveal things kind of like it did in Risk, so I'm going to try this, maybe people would buy it as a townie action?
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Launchpad, I hear you on wanting to try again for Natiko, but I feel kind of like it's tempting fate to try the third time. IMO Brazil, Jman, or Terra. The claims spreadsheet isn't up to date, so I'm going to read back a bit and hopefully find info on those three's powers.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Launchpad, I hear you on wanting to try again for Natiko, but I feel kind of like it's tempting fate to try the third time. IMO Brazil, Jman, or Terra. The claims spreadsheet isn't up to date, so I'm going to read back a bit and hopefully find info on those three's powers.
I actually thought you were also considering Nat lol! I think your sentence got caught off in that other post.

Do we want to stay away from recruiting players who were near Salva/you during those night phases? Actually, let's not take Chugg out of the running; that might just be me being paranoid. lol
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Yeah, sentence got cut off! Sorry. IDK what I was going to say, but something about we have to accept the sad truth that it's not going to happen.

I think we can forget about the locality thing at this point. Salva's been dead for a while. Even if one of us flips, they won't know who else is in the cult. Contact tracing is not possible.

You convinced me about Chuggs though!
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Yeah, sentence got cut off! Sorry. IDK what I was going to say, but something about we have to accept the sad truth that it's not going to happen.

I think we can forget about the locality thing at this point. Salva's been dead for a while. Even if one of us flips, they won't know who else is in the cult. Contact tracing is not possible.

You convinced me about Chuggs though!
Contact tracing lmao

You're probably right. At the rate this is going, they'll likely make the mistake about looking at who Salva came in contact with and that'll cost them a mislunch then. I'm game for any of those. Jman, Terra, and Brazil are great candidates.

As for where to throw my roleblock, hard to say. Maybe Vere off the back that he was suspecting me earlier as being scum, maybe thinks I'm the backup scum?
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
well... I can roleblock you! lmao

I didn't think of the map, but Zipped can't protect either of us if he has any night actions. We are unfortunately prime targets, so we should prepare for the possibility that one of us doesn't make it through tonight.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I keep forgetting that other players are limited by the map!

Geno, since I have the ship, if Launch passes me the banana peel do I have to use it on someone on my continent?

On the mechanics of the possible new recruits: Terra claimed that he has a percentage chance of dodging all night abilities, so I don't think we should go there, unfortunately. Brazil seems not to have claimed, which could go either way. Jman is probably vanilla by now-- his mason partner is dead and Stu already did the ITA event twice. My order of prefence would be 1 Brazil, 2 Jman, 3 Chuggs (alignment flip is only a theoretical possibility), 4 Natiko (third time's the charm!), 5 Terra, pray to hit the good X%
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I don't know how we ended up with just the two cult players on one continent. Geno, if we play risk, will our positions be randomized, or will they be based on where we were at day end?
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
I keep forgetting that other players are limited by the map!

Geno, since I have the ship, if Launch passes me the banana peel do I have to use it on someone on my continent?

On the mechanics of the possible new recruits: Terra claimed that he has a percentage chance of dodging all night abilities, so I don't think we should go there, unfortunately. Brazil seems not to have claimed, which could go either way. Jman is probably vanilla by now-- his mason partner is dead and Stu already did the ITA event twice. My order of prefence would be 1 Brazil, 2 Jman, 3 Chuggs (alignment flip is only a theoretical possibility), 4 Natiko (third time's the charm!), 5 Terra, pray to hit the good X%
If I pass you the item, you won't get it until the day phase starts, unfortunately. And it can be stolen if I'm killed at night (though thankfully not normal stolen since I have the Metal Box).

I'll think on who and get back to you in the morning.
 
SPOTS: A2, A8, B7, D5, D8, E1, E3, E7, F1, F4, H1, H2, H6, H7
A2 - Empty
A8 - Tarantula
B7 - Empty
D5 - David(Goddamn what snipes)
D8 - Empty
E1 - Empty
E3 - Empty
F1 - Empty
F4 - Piranha
H1 - Empty
H2 - Empty
H6 - Empty
H7 - Empty

You get 2 more digs, your turnips have matured and are both 800
 
I don't know how we ended up with just the two cult players on one continent. Geno, if we play risk, will our positions be randomized, or will they be based on where we were at day end?
It gets randomized and continent restrictions are lifted, Europe and Oceania get back into the mix as well, every 12 hours players get 3 battalions, you get 4
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Right right. All the item passing stuff was explained before I subbed in so I didn't pay attention. IMO we should play risk. Sounds like the command will go through even if I die tonight. I can make it sound townie, and if I die even better. If we both survive tomorrow & still have the banana peel we can decide how to use it.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Right right. All the item passing stuff was explained before I subbed in so I didn't pay attention. IMO we should play risk. Sounds like the command will go through even if I die tonight. I can make it sound townie, and if I die even better. If we both survive tomorrow & still have the banana peel we can decide how to use it.
I am absolutely down, and will pretend to be absolutely horrified when it happens
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Awesome! OK Geno, when you see this when you wake up, know that risk is going to happen. I'll post it publicly tomorrow. Excited for this :-D
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
I think we do Brazil. It's a bit of a risk without knowing what his abilities are, but Brazil feels solid town and will likely stay in that middle space for folks until much later in the game. Jman is also solid town, and it would be great to reunite with him after our first game together, but I think he's much more town read and therefore likelier to die in the coming nights.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I agree. It would be great to get someone who's in the same continent as zipped, but I don't think any of them will work. Sorian's protected, Terra has a dodge, and after sleeping on it I'm more and more sure that Chuggernaut is in some kind of resurrection cult. I looked up the illuminati from HVV2 after someone mentioned them and they were forbidden from mentioning their group in the main thread. Similar to how Chugg was hinting that he couldn't talk about his resurrection. Something is up with him.

Possess: Brazil

Geno, would you mind confirming one more time that I'm to post the Risk command publicly in the game thread, not here in our thread? I don't want to make a mistake about that, sorry.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
I agree. It would be great to get someone who's in the same continent as zipped, but I don't think any of them will work. Sorian's protected, Terra has a dodge, and after sleeping on it I'm more and more sure that Chuggernaut is in some kind of resurrection cult. I looked up the illuminati from HVV2 after someone mentioned them and they were forbidden from mentioning their group in the main thread. Similar to how Chugg was hinting that he couldn't talk about his resurrection. Something is up with him.
Kudos for going to look that up. That's a really good catch.

Launchpad, great spin towards Vere/Muffin in the main thread.
I actually thought about it, and maybe we made a bad assumption that scum are all dead haha

I had to rewrite that post at one point because I was coming at it from the angle that VA was telling the truth, but maybe VA really was just lying and trying to cover for Vere/Muffin. We only think that VA was telling the truth because we were expecting to get the faction kill when they were all dead.

Either way, if there's another faction or more scum, it's probably still Vere/Muffin at the center of it.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Yeah if you go back and look at when our win con changed, Geno had this to say (emphasis added):

It's fine like this, give me a moment to update the map, but just so you know Godzilla has now changed your win con to cult receiving majority. On the upside if all scum die cult gains a faction kill. I will also mysteriously say "A win con has changed" in the main thread. No this is not me changing rules midgame Godzilla was always meant to fuck up things for players, you just happened to be in the cult lol

I feel like he would have said "all other threats to town" or something if we were talking about another cult. Likely either 1) VA was lying and there's some other reason why OJ's full pm got posted or 2) there are two mafia teams.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
& yes Vere and Muffin are probably involved. But even if they're just innocent neutrals as they claim, the best thing for the cult is for those two to be the focus tomorrow.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Here's my post for day start today, for copy/pasting. I'm going to imply that initiating risk had to be a night action, but not outright say it unless someone asks.

Good morning. You probably all have some questions about my Let's Play Risk action. Here are the answers:

-I gained this power from the Map, which is my personal item. I received it in my items yesterday. It was last seen stolen from Aeleus, so likely VA had it. I didn't mention it publicly because I intended to keep it, and I didn't need to mention it to explain why I thought there was mafia in Antarctica.
-Geno told me that the power would give the ability to attack each other on the Risk board and that there would be the chance to gain some additional loot; that was all I knew about how it would work.
-I chose to use the power because I thought that we need some way to move quickly and test reads today. Town is doing well, but there are too many unanswered questions after VA's death & we could easily go in the wrong direction. Having day attacks-- essentially ITAs if used that way-- allows us to test our theories without have mafia... or whatever faction is left ... kill/recruit/do whatever they do in the night.

With that in mind, it's critical that we keep an eye out for scum doing what I did in Risk mafia. If anyone attacks a town-read player without explanation, town should immediately band together and attack the attacking player. Do not leave room for discussion.

Let me know if you have other questions about my choice to use this power. I really hope it works to town advantage.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Yeah, there were a few grammar type errors in there, got them by now.

Can't wait to see how our recruitment gets foiled this time XD
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Neither of us died though!! Could be worse.

I would predict that Brazil has some kind of protective action over him being mafia/second mafia.

So, my ship's not around during Risk?
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I'm thinking I'll suggest that Jman should take the Eastern route to North America & settle in the NWT, then I can follow through to Alaska and help fight the monsters; in the mean time that maybe you & Terra should consider heading southeast in case it becomes necessary to attack Muffin/Verelios.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Oh, you know, even though Geno didn’t mention it earlier, you can say that you used Risk because it would cancel all other commands. You pulling a protection looks good on you
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I think it's better if I didn't know about it. I hear what you're saying about it being read as a protective action, Launch, but I think it could also be taken as messing up town abilities. Also if I don't announce it the other mafia faction will just keep trying to use their abilities (if the have them); we'll have the information advantage.

Geno, the recruit command isn't gone, is it?!?
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
I think it's better if I didn't know about it. I hear what you're saying about it being read as a protective action, Launch, but I think it could also be taken as messing up town abilities. Also if I don't announce it the other mafia faction will just keep trying to use their abilities (if the have them); we'll have the information advantage.

Geno, the recruit command isn't gone, is it?!?
oh, I didn't figure that it would cancel day commands while Risk is going, too. Fair point.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I kind of think Launch isn’t evil because surely if he had a chat someone would have told him to stop and read the post about the item steal

Nice deduction, the Chuggernaut, but you've failed to account for every possibility!
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Looks like people are going to go after Aeleus instead of the obviously suspicious neutral team, fine by me TBH
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Hmm I think Brazil and Chugg are the other cult maybe. Need to consider consequences of guiding the conversation towards them.

Nice deduction, the Chuggernaut, but you've failed to account for every possibility!
Yeah! Like that I just miss things ALL THE TIME lmao
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I think the ideal would be for Aeleus to die first, then when they flip the narrative is "oh no, we should have listened, Aeleus was right about the second cult!" thereby narrowing town down more & clearly turning focus towards Kosmos. At that point I can come up with reasons for Chuggs being in Kosmos but so far nothing on Brazil
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Hmm I think Brazil and Chugg are the other cult maybe. Need to consider consequences of guiding the conversation towards them.


Yeah! Like that I just miss things ALL THE TIME lmao

And that you do have a chat, but with someone who also misses things LOL
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
wait lmao Terra out here trying to pull a fast one on Sorian like Sorian isn't a mirror? Are there any town left in this game?
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I hope Terra had something that nullified the mirror, because the alternative is that he's neutral/in the other cult and just somehow forgot about the mirror?! IDK. See how it plays out?
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
OK, Vere used the card to redirect the action to you, then it bounced back because of the metal box. You already claimed all your abilities. Don't say you have the box-- we need to maintain separation if anyone knows that I had it. IMO best plan say you don't know why that would have happened. Muffin and Vere are not credible
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
OK, Vere used the card to redirect the action to you, then it bounced back because of the metal box. You already claimed all your abilities. Don't say you have the box-- we need to maintain separation if anyone knows that I had it. IMO best plan say you don't know why that would have happened. Muffin and Vere are not credible
I'd actually not thought of the box, but I went to shade Muffin instead lmao
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Brazil has to be in the other cult. His claim didn't include any protection against night actions.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
They'll have the vindication of knowing they were right when they read back over, hopefully that'll make up for it
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Brazil is already laying the groundwork by saying he's expecting Ael to flip town. So evil, the cult of Baby Vegeta would never behave like that
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
So, I'm kind of sitting here wondering, what keeps us from coming forward right now as a benign cult? There's another cult out there with a win condition that Geno seems to be redacting, and that may as well be the one that had the public announcement. We could tell them we're Cult of Baby and tried to recruit Brazil, but it failed. Chugg is likely also part of that. Honestly, I've been sitting here thinking Sorian is too because of the Cthulhu linking to cosmic horror.

Town doesn't know how many Cult of Kosmos there are, so we can string them along to kill town after we're done lunching them. For our sake, too, they might outnumber us and we might end up in a bad situation later if we don't have a majority.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
We can say we didn't come forward because our numbers were few then and we were being cautious, so we decided to just play as pro-town survivors.

There's a good chance the other cult doesn't have their recruitment anymore, too.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
There are a lot of unknowns. Let me think this one over a bit-- got some stuff this evening, but I'll post my thoughts tomorrow-- need to be sure first.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Let's say 3 Cult of Kosmos, 2 Patriots, 2 Cult of Baby, that leaves 4 town left. They're about to kill Aeleus, so that brings the number down to 3 town. I think the Cult of Kosmos will steer away from their own, and try to lunch another town since you and I specifically are in a good position towncred-wise. But then they'll night kill one of us to preserve the neutrals as an ally or potential mislunch.

Tomorrow, will be 3 Cult of Kosmos, 2 Patriots, 2 Cult of Baby if a recruitment goes through but one of us dies, and 2 town left. They'll go for another town then, again, then another one of us the subsequent night.

D9 starts with 3 Cult of Kosmos, 2 Patriots, and 2 Cult of Baby if a recruitment goes through but one of us dies. Cult of Kosmos steps out into the light and says vote with us Patriots and we will let you win. One Cult of Baby gets lunched, the other gets night killed. Kosmos has majority and they win.

The situation is even more dire if there are more than 3 Cult of Kosmos out there. Our win here hinges on whether we can convince town to vote with us against Kosmos, basically, whether openly or secretly. But if they have at least 3 players, then that's going to be difficult without leverage.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
I'm trying to think this through more carefully, and I'll post a longer thing tomorrow, but gut feeling I feel really really uneasy about coming forward. The difficulty is the hurdle isn't just getting town to work with us (already a high bar) it's protecting ourselves against the Cult of Kosmos. There's so much we don't know about them:

-Can they recruit every night?
-Do they have a kill shot? We don't have ours yet, which would make me think yes. But then there was no kill last night, which makes me think maybe not.
-How many members they have
-Their win condition
-Any other night powers they have
-Was Mr. Hedin one of them, or was he truly hunting for them?

I bet we can get them to go after Brazil or Chuggernaut after Ael's flip, whether by risk attacks or votes, then hopefully the flip will send us in a new direction. But as for how the days/nights play out, they could e.g. waste recruit shots on us tonight, which they won't do if we claim.

We're in a pretty good position now with the town. Both highly town read. Lots of other people they're going after. We don't know what our position will be if we come forward, and we don't need to come forward to aim the town toward the players we know/believe are Kosmos.

I have to go now, promise I will give this more thought
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
Yeah, after I started spinning this yarn about the roleblock, I’ve been panicking a lot less. Still lots to think about and consider hmm
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
I'm trying to think this through more carefully, and I'll post a longer thing tomorrow, but gut feeling I feel really really uneasy about coming forward. The difficulty is the hurdle isn't just getting town to work with us (already a high bar) it's protecting ourselves against the Cult of Kosmos. There's so much we don't know about them:

-Can they recruit every night?
-Do they have a kill shot? We don't have ours yet, which would make me think yes. But then there was no kill last night, which makes me think maybe not.
-How many members they have
-Their win condition
-Any other night powers they have
-Was Mr. Hedin one of them, or was he truly hunting for them?

I bet we can get them to go after Brazil or Chuggernaut after Ael's flip, whether by risk attacks or votes, then hopefully the flip will send us in a new direction. But as for how the days/nights play out, they could e.g. waste recruit shots on us tonight, which they won't do if we claim.

We're in a pretty good position now with the town. Both highly town read. Lots of other people they're going after. We don't know what our position will be if we come forward, and we don't need to come forward to aim the town toward the players we know/believe are Kosmos.

I have to go now, promise I will give this more thought
-I think they've likely lost their ability to recruit by now.
-Risk cancelled the night actions, so it's unclear right now.
-At least 2. I am certain about Brazil, and one of Sorian or Chugg. Maybe both. They're too in sync.
-Likely the same as ours, but since there was never an announcement of a win condition change, they may have started with the "gain majority" win condition and promised the kill before us? Not sure about this.
-If they've been recruiting, it would be whatever town powers some of them originally had.
-MrHedin's flip being redacted reads like he was involved.

Even if they had recruitments left, Sorian is certain I am cult now. They're intending to flip you after Aeleus. I would push against that, but maybe if it's coming down to the wire, that's the point to claim.
 

LaunchpadMcQ

...can I smell you?
I don't know. With 11 players, if Cult of Kosmos has three players and can even just Risk kill two town today, they can bargain with Vere/Muffin to have a majority.

This is looking dicey.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Good morning!!

I can see that we're not in the greatest of positions here, for sure.

I started the day really thinking that there was still secret mafia out there -- somehow -- because I thought that we would have known if we were in fact third in line to get the faction kill. I still think that's possible, but the evidence for Kosmos is looking pretty strong.

Definitely, the option of claiming should be there as a backup plan. If one of us is about to be voted out or risk-killed, that person claims alone and shares the info about Brazil.

I thought that Aeleus's flip was going to turn town in the direction of listening to what they're saying, which is 100% both correct and the direction we want the town to go, but now the loudest argument is that we can't trust pm's in terms of alignment, which is essentially the equivalent of saying "nothing can disprove my theories, they are self-reinforcing" which is dangerous.

However I still think an open claim is too dangerous, it'll expose us not only to town but also to Kosmos/mafia, and several people are now saying that they think the two cults are the same.
 

Hawthorn

I'll explain my reasons later
Also, I now have to answer the question about the dousing, which is something nin did after being recruited. Got to go look up timestamps to see if I can blame it on Fandorin, if not I'll say the dousing didn't do anything (which is true) & nin was probably just being playful/enjoying his role, not implausible for him.
 
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