FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
oh god no
launch use ur telekinetic powers and tell ATP not to do that
Spectator Thread The Snug'
- Thread starter Aeleus
- Start date
- Status
launch use ur telekinetic powers and tell ATP not to do that
Sawneeks
little green dog
given how long you two have used those team avatars i feel like it should be related to that.
The doctor's assistant? My best friend is a monkey?
can we still be friends tho
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
That boy hasn’t listened to any telepathic communications I’ve sent him. He’s lost to me.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
It’s okay ATP is probably dead tonight
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
AllThingsPurple said:
Giant Panda said:
AllThingsPurple said:
VOTE: FateShirou
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
Poor Alex
I'm sorry I couldnt do better
I hope when you read this, you will be less disappointed in me
I'm sorry I couldnt do better
I hope when you read this, you will be less disappointed in me
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
A Wild Shark Appears
Our resident acupuncturist
man, malus and LP's vote records this game are pretty atrocious. if they bother to vote at all, they make sure to not be on the main wagon. even Sparks has a townier looking record if you look back to D3 and prior.
this game is still solvable for town if someone puts in the effort to go back and read older days I think, both malus and LP should be very viable kill candidates at this stage. the only one that would be hard to catch is GP, but I think town would flip him before either Cheshire or HP.
town should kill tomorrow, the no kill option is there, but with this many options on the table, it's really just stalling and scum won't make the decision any easier the next day and town will be missing a key decision making voice.
this game is still solvable for town if someone puts in the effort to go back and read older days I think, both malus and LP should be very viable kill candidates at this stage. the only one that would be hard to catch is GP, but I think town would flip him before either Cheshire or HP.
town should kill tomorrow, the no kill option is there, but with this many options on the table, it's really just stalling and scum won't make the decision any easier the next day and town will be missing a key decision making voice.
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
How about:
- Prime
- Dash
- World
- Boom
- Boom: Shattered Crystal
- At the Olympic Games
- At the Olympic Winter Games
- Spinball
- Adventure
- Pocket Adventure
- Mega Collection
- Ultimate Genesis Collection
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
yeah I think scum's gonna off Alexem Tonight so they can really finally control the narrative
Verelios
Were-elios
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Yeah, it's very possible for them to still turn this around. They probably end up hitting scum if they decide to not go with Sparks tomorrow. Panda is the big problem for town here, I think he could probably get Cheshire killed before him, but beyond that it gets rough.
Verelios
Were-elios
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Basically if they get Malus or LP, they probably get the other. Alex, Zeke, and ATP probably bite it through the night kills and you're in a final four with Panda, Sparks, Cheshire, and HP. Still possible that town can win it there, but that is very dicey.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
if it goes to a final four of panda, sparks, chershire and HP
I think town can pull through
just need to give alex a boost
:sob:
I think town can pull through
just need to give alex a boost
:sob:
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Yeah, I don't think town win with that final four lol
Sawneeks
little green dog
Nah, LP and Panda are safe for the game. Maybe LP bites it if Town is really uncertain and just goes for an 'unknown' force but I think there is enough suspicion spread around that he can live through it. Malus is the one I'd be worried about the most here with his ties to me, vote record, and current play.
You also have to remember that role claims can be brought out. Panda has been giving out wills to 'town read' targets, malus has his tie breaker command, and LP is debating a 'cop-like' role. Even if the other two are gone I think Panda's claim and actions will lead him to victory.
You also have to remember that role claims can be brought out. Panda has been giving out wills to 'town read' targets, malus has his tie breaker command, and LP is debating a 'cop-like' role. Even if the other two are gone I think Panda's claim and actions will lead him to victory.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Basically I think town winning comes down to how the players with keys use the keys and if Sparks can get a good role block off
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
I'm not confident in town winning this, but it's not impossible. 3 town players have put the remaining scum team on their scum lists. Panda is going to be the most frustrating one to see live though. Of all those that remain, Panda is the one I would've went for after the Sneeks flip. LP is the tough one that would've flown under my radar. I've got like...0 reads on him. Even after knowing that he is scum. lol.
I like "My best friend is a monkey" or something similar
Nah, only tracker and watcherDoes Shirou's death blind Zeke?
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
k n a c k e r e dAlexem said:
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
Alexem has to throw his life's work out a window and start attacking the people he trusted the most, it's the only way
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
The end of this game should be a lesson extolling the importance of establishing a town core.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
I feel bad for alex
someone give him some good vibes
also when is the game entering night ends when everyone submits
someone give him some good vibes
also when is the game entering night ends when everyone submits
Ephidel
How do you do, fellow mafia?
What to do when you manage to establish a town core full of scum?
Asking for a friend
It gets pretty obvious after a while, or it should, at least for town leaders. By about day 4-5, if someone is leading the towncore and organizing everyone but still alive, it's probably either:What to do when you manage to establish a town core full of scum?
Asking for a friend
1. they are wrong about several people
2. scum hopes town will get sus of them being alive and kill them so they don't have to (usually goes with #1)
3. they are scum
I haven't seen a lot of scum town leaders be able to hold it for that long, though - they don't stand up under scrutiny. They start to lose steam.
As for a scum towncore... I think a lot about my first MU champs final, where the towncore was pretty much the four scum and people they had pocketed bigtime. By the time I died (I was the game-ending elim), it was super obvious to me for these reasons:
1. the scumcore was leaning heavily into their pockets and building relationships - a lot of "I'm so glad we were able to find each other!!" enthusiasm and talk of mindmelds and feelings
2. the one outlier to this was SUCH an open asshole that no one thought that could possibly be open wolfing
3. all their posts were full of deflections and fluff and no substance
So over time, you can really start to build an image of someone but you have to be ready to reset yourself every day if you need to. Re-explore your assumptions. Look at things you labeled town and explore if they really were. THIS IS HARD. IT IS REALLY, REALLY HARD. IT IS VERY EASY TO FAIL. Because we just don't know. We don't. But in that case, separation became:
1. who is focused on making friends vs who is actually frustrated and trying to solve?
2. who is upset because they are being targeted and WHY? why are they upset? how are they framing it?
3. who is reactive vs proactive? <<<-this one is hardest because when accusations start flying we all get a little reactive and not everyone feels confident enough to be proactive, but it's a good measure nonetheless
4. who is uncertain about the game vs uncertain about their standing?
5. who actually wants to live? <<-- this one is also hard but town needs to learn that they can die and there is more town behind them. scum can't really do this ever unless it's an organized bus. they have to want to live, most of them, because otherwise the game drags on
hi, I'm monkey, and I really like lists. :D
Anyway, I think it gets extra difficult in our community because people come in with different levels of investment and time, and vastly different time zones, so you kinda have to meet people where they are instead of using your own rubrics and standards. This is a lesson I have to learn over and over and over because I am obsessive and have a very flexible work and sleep schedule that can lead to me living in a game thread. I really cannot expect anyone else to be like that because I am the result of very particular factors... but it's hard. It's frustrating. And you feel alone.
There's another one: who's alone? Who feels alone? Looking for that, too.
So it's taken me a long long time to get comfortable with the notion of a towncore and I still get wary sometimes about complacency. I really don't like it, still, when someone takes the reigns and starts declaring their towncore versus a more consensus core - it always tickles my radar, even if I'm wrong in the end, because it feels wrong to me. That's something I'm working on. I prefer more of a consensus approach when possible - to me, that gives town a chance to come together and actually work as a team (and you can watch people who jump in without suspicion, because they may need to BE suspected).
But I think if you just don't get complacent, scum in your towncore is okay. Very few mafia can go the whole game without making missteps and so long as you don't ignore them (don't ignore your gut!), it's a surmountable problem.
and sometimes you're just gonna be wrong and look dumb and end up with a tag like mineWhat to do when you manage to establish a town core full of scum?
Asking for a friend
but them's the breaks
listenI don't think I was really expecting to get a serious answer, so I appreciate that you gave me one! Especially such a detailed one!
if you give me an opening to soapbox
you're gonna get the soap AND the box
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
That whole Monkey post is really good, but seriously looking for people who appear alone is good advice. If someone just seems off on their own little island, they probably don’t have a team.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
That's why it's important there is a consensus. Maybe you personally have scum as part of the town core, but if 8 of the remaining X players don't? Then they aren't town core. It takes a little pressure off of you. And for this game specifically, the remaining scum have not had close to enough town reads to be on a town core list. GP, who has blended in the most, is still winding up on lists as potential scum.What to do when you manage to establish a town core full of scum?
Asking for a friend
For me personally, the toughest part of a town core list is getting over, "what if I was wrong about ATP? What if ATP was scum this whole game?" I really put myself out there to say ATP was town again and again, and then later the same for Zeke/Stu. Jiminy, that'd be embarassing if I was wrong! It almost makes me want to find ways they could be scum so it'd hurt less if they pulled a fast one on me. But I have to shove that stuff into a deep dark hole and not think about the "embarrassment" of being completely wrong because it doesn't get me any closer to solving the game. If that makes sense....
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A Wild Shark Appears
Our resident acupuncturist
I’m going to have to bookmark some of these posts. Some pearls of wisdom right here.
Verelios
Were-elios
You can always bring back the scum stratagem of watching at the sidelines as town rips into each other.
Sawneeks
little green dog
might be a while before i can do that, i think im going to be voted out day 1 for a while after this game
AS YOU SHOULD BE
Verelios
Were-elios
That would be the logical move to make for town so I think you'll live long instead =(
Unless you're actually town.
I like to create town cores in my head and not tell anybody about them. The fondness for night chats here makes it really easy to spot when two or more players are suddenly working together and I'll sometimes take cues from them in how to read the rest of the game.
It's good to think about developing town cores consciously early on in the game, I suppose, but if your scum team contains more than one player who's really good at playing scum, they can go that distance and fool the town core the entire game. They should be viewed as a tool in the toolbox town can pull out if it fits the current game's direction, I don't think they work in every game with any roster of players.
And, as an addendum, it doesn't take long for a community's meta to devolve into scum teams just killing the players who set up town cores every game as fast as possible.
It's good to think about developing town cores consciously early on in the game, I suppose, but if your scum team contains more than one player who's really good at playing scum, they can go that distance and fool the town core the entire game. They should be viewed as a tool in the toolbox town can pull out if it fits the current game's direction, I don't think they work in every game with any roster of players.
And, as an addendum, it doesn't take long for a community's meta to devolve into scum teams just killing the players who set up town cores every game as fast as possible.
This is SO true.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
Yea, if you got LP in ur roster, you lunch them day 1
:angrybob:
:angrybob:
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
Our day 1 roster is getting big now. Do we get rid of LP, Sneeks, or Sorian first? Decisions, decisions.
The right answer is always fireblend
Sawneeks
little green dog
So in practice what would that look like?
It's gonna largely depend on the setup and who's playing the game, and how familiar players are to one another.
If there's a gossip chat in the setup, that's a great place to develop a town core as it ideally means scum can't see what town is thinking. If the setup encourages claims to be made quickly, town should form a core quickly around that element of the game. (This can be manipulated by a good scum team, but it's harder to do with players who know each other well)
I think they're a popular idea here because a lot of the setups here are friendly to them. Games here are day centric, and the setups use chats, lovers or other roles that team people up with one another. Those sort of setups naturally make town cores look appealing.
Hello everyone.
I'm ashamed of my words and deeds.
I think I shall take my leave now and never show my face around these parts again.
I'm ashamed of my words and deeds.
I think I shall take my leave now and never show my face around these parts again.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
I never dealt with sorian as we killed them day 1
but id rather deal with sneeks
i can read sneeks like how you guys read one piece
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Man, we've all been there. Don't be down on yourself. You did good. Had me on my toes the entire time I was in lol
A Wild Shark Appears
Our resident acupuncturist
You did good!
We’re just going to have to add Sneeks and Chuggs to our forever scum list.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
You know i was so close to messaging Aeleus and asking to replace out during that fight.. in hindsight I wish I had lol
I've never felt so lost and hopeless in a game before.
Sawneeks
little green dog
Leo
Quack Pack King
You did good! That was a hard game, you were very resilient. And you managed to get a lot of town cred from very early on, that isn't easy to do.
thats what we old bears call a learning experience.
but you did really good considering what you were working with. one of the most valuable tools town players can have when scum hunting is honestly time playing as scum themselves. without that experience it's extremely difficult to be familiar with how scum think in different scenarios. that being said, your instincts are sharp for someone who doesn't have dozens of games under their belt.
Verelios
Were-elios
You did good. I think you became less assertive as the days went on and scum kept evading, but we all get those bouts of discouragement when reads turn up wrong. In my opinion, the most important quality for town is to always be pushing the conversation forward and not getting stuck in muffled silence. Scum want you to shut up and run in circles, and when you don't they get more quiet and more passive agressive. It's just a matter of finding who's stoking the flames and who is actually getting singed. Like others have said, you can let this be a learning experience on what to look for next time.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Learning experience and all that. If you ever want to see a completely lost and hopeless town you should read House of Horrors lol. I'm willing to bet it's going to be really hard to get past you again if I roll scum while you're town.
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
I think this something we can all take away
:ghostblush
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
LP saying sorry to me
grrrrrr
grrrrrr
Honestly, the moment I realised my green check was weak af and I had saved sneeks the weight of that just wore me down gradually, and I wanted so badly VA to be the one who was lying to my face and was scum because I knew that I had basically screwed town if sneeks was scum.
I just don't have the confidence in my reads to really push them, like when I put out the sneeks slipping with the key comment, what I wanted was someone else to take the lead on that. Same with Chuggs after that fight, it felt scummy and oppurtunistic but everyone else is town reading him so I just thought I guess I'm wrong
Honestly by the end I felt so hopeless and confused and paranoid that I welcomed Panda's pocket.
I just don't have the confidence in my reads to really push them, like when I put out the sneeks slipping with the key comment, what I wanted was someone else to take the lead on that. Same with Chuggs after that fight, it felt scummy and oppurtunistic but everyone else is town reading him so I just thought I guess I'm wrong
Honestly by the end I felt so hopeless and confused and paranoid that I welcomed Panda's pocket.
I wanted to build a beautiful town core with you blarg
Sure, but the friendship will be kind of pointless since I can't show my face in this community ever again!
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Fun fact! Neeks actually did get a key that night lmao.
Here's the thing about town, if you think you have a solid read and you really want that person dead, you got to be the one hard pushing it. If you can't get town to rally around a kill it can very well just not get done. It's possible you screw up, but hey that's the game. As scum I've legit left people alive who had me basically figured out because they don't really have the play style to get the rest of town to rally behind them.
My philosophy is that it's always OK to target Chugg or Launch and most of the time you're going to be right. And even if you're wrong it's still fun to get them out.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
You're overselling me and Launch. Thorny is the real scary one.
I really really hope Zeke pulls this out and Alexem is willing to trust him.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
I love town Zeke in these end game scenarios. All business.
Verelios
Were-elios
No more truffles to shuffle.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
ATP, you played as well as you could given the circumstances and that was pretty good in itself. The scum team in this case was just making all the right moves and I don’t think there was the trust or cohesion on town side to solve them quickly. It was rough game to watch, but I’m betting it was ten times worse on the ground. Learn from what didn’t work here.
p.s. don’t listen to Hedin and stop scum reading me when I’m town (or trying to help town in this case) D:
p.s. don’t listen to Hedin and stop scum reading me when I’m town (or trying to help town in this case) D:
There’s no redeeming that one.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
LP suggesting no kill AND going silent after Zeke asked for claim again:
She has never killed me or pushed for my vote so she's still alright in my book.
Look how many times I was wrong about who to kill in Fate Mafia. Can't let being wrong about a read put you down to the point you aren't pushing your other reads.
I was completely wrong about Sky on D2, but then rolled into D3 with my sights on Natiko who was scum, and spent most of D3 defending Salva, who also turned out to be scum and the flip that day. (Natiko was in the running for a bit tho) It's just how the game is. Have to learn to be satisfied with what you did correctly and learn from what you made mistakes on and take that into the next game.
I'll be more disappointed in you, ATP, if you disappear lol.
I was completely wrong about Sky on D2, but then rolled into D3 with my sights on Natiko who was scum, and spent most of D3 defending Salva, who also turned out to be scum and the flip that day. (Natiko was in the running for a bit tho) It's just how the game is. Have to learn to be satisfied with what you did correctly and learn from what you made mistakes on and take that into the next game.
I'll be more disappointed in you, ATP, if you disappear lol.
Vincent Alexander
My best friend is a monkey
SOMEONE SAY SOMETHING!
Scum team right now probably:
Scum team right now probably:
Look, I can’t keep agreeing with you this much, Maol, it will ruin our dynamic.
ATP, you played hard in a hard game. You should be proud, not sad. We all get things wrong but you KEPT AT IT and that’s so so hard.
Don't worry, I intend to be entirely disagreeable next time we play together again
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
Totally agreed. One of things I think I did well in Fate was “finding” you on the last day, just in time to tank the game in solidarity.
Sawneeks
little green dog
I posted a bit in scumchat about it but I'll say it here too: you did fine. Part of the game is to make mistakes, learn from it, and then roll with it from there and see where it gets you. More often than not we will be wrong. It sucks, especially when you were so sure that person was town, but for every time we get something wrong you'll nail scum and have it all figured out. It's just working passed those mistakes and trust me, almost every one of us here has a story about trusting someone too much and ended up being backstabbed. You're part of the club, now <3
Being demoralized is a lot harder to deal with though. Finding someone you can fairly confidently guess at being town, even if it's 90%, helps there if they will bounce ideas back and forth. Working as a team is town's strength.
Sorry, it's in the contract you signed that you're never allowed to leave us. Thems the rules.
How would GP know if Chugg town read Alex?
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Probably my chat with Ambulance lol
Hawthorn
I'll explain my reasons later
I thought you played well ATP-- it's hard to have the confidence to push for things when you're not sure yourself! Playing well as town is really hard. Much harder than playing well as mafia IMO.
I'd love it if one day we did another one of those costume games where nobody can rely on meta-- the most recent one was before my time, but I'd be so interested to see how people read each other with only the evidence on the page-- not easily, I bet.
I'd love it if one day we did another one of those costume games where nobody can rely on meta-- the most recent one was before my time, but I'd be so interested to see how people read each other with only the evidence on the page-- not easily, I bet.
This sounds like a great idea
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
We should never play a costume game again
A Wild Shark Appears
Our resident acupuncturist
I want another shot at being costumed so I don’t get found out in an hour lol.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
You just do what I did Ambulance and completely change your posting style, get really town read by busing a team mate on day 1, and then get killed because you accidentally posted something in the main thread instead of scum chat
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
I would love to play in another costume game.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
Remember our first time butting heads? We didn’t even know each other!
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