Vere is open wolfing while Blarg is trying to solve and if this town votes out Blarg, I don't even know.
Ghost in the Skeld
- Thread starter Faddy
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Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Weird self check aside, Blarg and Thorny were like the only town trying to really solve this game. You hate to see it.
This is why you go team scum
This is why you go team scum
Alexem
Yeah, I'm town
Never before has the Gengar avy been so appropriate.
There comes a point where you just want town to lose. If they seriously can't see that blarg and Hawthorn have been the two people trying to solve the most they deserve the loss.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
I haven't been keeping up with the game, but just reading the highlights is stressing me out.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
It’s done if no one removes a vote. Scum can just hammer as soon as the meeting starts. Unless they’re still worried about the vig
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Yeah the rest of town is just straight letting them down here. They’re both so townie it hurts
the Blarg vs Vere situation is a replay of every town cop vs mafia counterclaim scenario I've ever seen and it hurts that no one sees it other than Thorny. Vere isn't even doing anything other than riding a wave of town's preconceptions, offering himself up if the flip is wrong, it's all obvious scum tells.
what scum tells town he checked himself when faking a cop claim? that's such a dumb townie thing to do in a game like this, people aren't even really looking at what Blarg has said or done.
i love when scum has to work to flip the cop on claims like this (because I've done it as scum and it's usually hard as fuck), but they're really not needing to here, and are open wolfing, so it's just a painful to watch conclusion.
what scum tells town he checked himself when faking a cop claim? that's such a dumb townie thing to do in a game like this, people aren't even really looking at what Blarg has said or done.
i love when scum has to work to flip the cop on claims like this (because I've done it as scum and it's usually hard as fuck), but they're really not needing to here, and are open wolfing, so it's just a painful to watch conclusion.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Verelios is presenting the game as solved so he isn't inclined to be doing any real work.
1 kill last night so there was a hit, probably zipped. Or something weird happened with the vig and it is swamped... who cares. 1 down
Blarg is 2
Hawthorn is 3
His claim is so solid that town want to believe it. I think that the want to believe in a solution is overriding any sort of willingness to doubt it. If you believe Blarg.. ok you got Verelios. But Vere voted on both zipped and swamped so did the medic get a save? Why would mafia stack on nin? There are two other scum out there that aren't Blarg or Hawthorn. That sounds like a lot to consider. So people assume it must be impossible.
1 kill last night so there was a hit, probably zipped. Or something weird happened with the vig and it is swamped... who cares. 1 down
Blarg is 2
Hawthorn is 3
His claim is so solid that town want to believe it. I think that the want to believe in a solution is overriding any sort of willingness to doubt it. If you believe Blarg.. ok you got Verelios. But Vere voted on both zipped and swamped so did the medic get a save? Why would mafia stack on nin? There are two other scum out there that aren't Blarg or Hawthorn. That sounds like a lot to consider. So people assume it must be impossible.
That should be a red flag considering this is a game where you can't be sure of the information you're getting is true to the reality of the game if you're not the cop.
No one should be confident that the game is solved in this setup. Vere claiming after Blarg is sus as hell, and it's awfully convenient that he's presenting a game that's simple to wrap up to town compared to Blarg's version that rightfully declares that the game is still a mess.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
I think the issue is that if Vere is telling the truth this shit is solved and they can go home with a W. If Blarg is telling the truth they actually have to put in work once Vere is dead
And what's the more likely scenario in a game of mafia lol.
^^^^Maol and I have been so same-page lately that it's eerie!
the real secret is that we're actually same page about a lot of things, but I purposefully put myself on the opposite end of the spectrum to watch how you and everyone else reacts.
I'm very uninterested in being too predictable.
lol, I saw the original post here and looked at Hedin's post again and realized how it could have looked like he meant to post that in scum chat
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Oh no, I’m agreeing with you. I just think scum Blarg is the easier road for town to swallow so that’s what they’re going with. I’m not saying it’s good play lol
I'm not so experienced with blarg but his town play here and in eastenders was massively different to his scum play in eza. I don't know if its not normally so cut and dry but in both those town games he was clearly trying to solve.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
My first thought was why is Hedin even posting. Then I quick skimmed it and it was like LOL kyan we hammering this right away. It fried my brain for a minute.
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
This is a top tier scum team.
You can all go and like Verelios posts when the boards open. But I'll quote
> Vere, that was one of the ballsiest moves that I have seen, I don't know if I would have claimed when the cop had no red checks.
> I didn't want to. I had my vanilla post ready literally a minute before Blarg posted, someone called me so I stepped away, and when I came back Blarg was trying to confirm THREE townies. Nah. Fuck that. It would be a lot riskier to go into the day with 3/6 of us the targets, and I heavily doubt Leo or Sorian would be their go to, leaving us to try and get turmoil out. I considered it for a minute and figured that it was a gamble that had the highest chance to succeed.
And ya'll came through for me with the assist, like damn. On the fly, you guys are the best.
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
Kyan is the 2nd??? omg
Yeah, it was stone cold. And that they couldn't chat and coordinate was great.
Still mad at town tho
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
fucking hell and I was thinking of hammering myself from this literal Impostor stealing my face with me still in it and maybe my self-destruction would make Town wake the fuck up going forward because a scum wouldn't do that but I thought at the end maybe that's enough sci-fi tropes for one game plus they'd all just brush it off as me being theatric as a scum anyway
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Town are about to wake up alright. Wake up dead.
The game is functionally over. Mafia have 2 kills and will use them. But I am going to stick to the night phase timings because there is no way mafia can be sure that the medic or vig is dead. And either one could stop them winning.
It will be 3v3 tomorrow and an Impostor win.
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
Vere you disgust the fuck out of me congratulations, very raw, very surgical
If I had survived honestly I think I'd still be clouded over with rage and go for the Sorian check I promised, but with Kyan claiming Doctor with no counter I hope that would've passed from me before the Night ended and that I'd do the sensible thing to check the sole claimant, but w e ' l l n e v e r k n o w
If I had survived honestly I think I'd still be clouded over with rage and go for the Sorian check I promised, but with Kyan claiming Doctor with no counter I hope that would've passed from me before the Night ended and that I'd do the sensible thing to check the sole claimant, but w e ' l l n e v e r k n o w
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
wait what? They still have 2 kills? How?
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
There's still 3 of them???????
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
HEDIN??????
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Yup lol. Vere, Hedin, and Kyan
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
Once you knew Verelios was bad who did you think was his dead partner?
He voted on both Swamped and Zipped.
I emphasize with your pain, Blarg
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
I think Kyan not dying would have fucked him if they actually listened to Blarg. I have no idea if they would get Hedin, but town would have had a chance!
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
I thought of the plan like it was emergency lighting, yes they can see us but there's a chance we might see them and they can see in the dark anyway so why not
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
It would probably have been turm and leo vs hedin. Which would have been really interesting.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Blarg you played an amazing game! So very happy my reads got confirmed with your play. I loved the gambit of sorting everyone into groups. Helped give day 1 something to do beyond the usual shit posting!
just an absolute massacre from Verelios and Co.
just an absolute massacre from Verelios and Co.
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
TY! Had the most [Mafia] fun in a while with this game, rage included and appreciated
About why I did what I did overall, I really felt we needed a different way to look at this game considering the gameplay settings. 15 players, open-info 3 PR's, 3 scum, 2 dead a Night while 3 scum, no flips on death? So each Night, we lose max 2 and can't ever tell who's what or if the danger has actually reduced or not. Numbers would dwindle down to a smaller & smaller pool of players who would likely devolve in the end to using each other's meta (if any) as gotcha's against each other, and I felt that alone was too unreliable to be acceptable.
The social/meta aspect is well & good for solving; it's what clued me in on a possible Impostor being between Vere & Kyan (I just didn't bet on it being both lol), because my meta of them is that they're some of the more strategic/sneaky thinking-type players present, who would be attracted to positioning themselves in spots they could usurp the Power Roles as a ready tactic just in case, rather than just cover-shooter the whole game to death. But I was only led to them because the plan allowed me to see over time that scum clearly wasn't touching the COP and MEDIC groups where they were/are.
And yes while that doesn't necessarily mean there are any scum there (they could just be deliberately avoiding attacking those groups to make me think there are, and that they were all in VIGILANTE), since I was the COP I could actually verify the slots being generally avoided. The plan gave me both a place to start aiming at plus a higher %-chance-to-hit scum IMO. If I wasn't the COP myself I would be trusting whoever was to be paying attention and doing that. I was working towards it when I began with Hawthorn in MEDIC. I felt Leo was comfortably soft-confirmed Town (something he did on D1 that felt like innocent mistakes? Can't remember what it was exactly but I remember reading something like that about him then) so he was my last priority between clearing the 2 groups. My fucking luck I didn't scan Vere in COP or Kyan in MEDIC first, lol
My self-check was a bit of an oops but hindsight/foresight bleh. I thought it was a good idea but I should've been going for quantity over quality, realised that too late
About why I did what I did overall, I really felt we needed a different way to look at this game considering the gameplay settings. 15 players, open-info 3 PR's, 3 scum, 2 dead a Night while 3 scum, no flips on death? So each Night, we lose max 2 and can't ever tell who's what or if the danger has actually reduced or not. Numbers would dwindle down to a smaller & smaller pool of players who would likely devolve in the end to using each other's meta (if any) as gotcha's against each other, and I felt that alone was too unreliable to be acceptable.
The social/meta aspect is well & good for solving; it's what clued me in on a possible Impostor being between Vere & Kyan (I just didn't bet on it being both lol), because my meta of them is that they're some of the more strategic/sneaky thinking-type players present, who would be attracted to positioning themselves in spots they could usurp the Power Roles as a ready tactic just in case, rather than just cover-shooter the whole game to death. But I was only led to them because the plan allowed me to see over time that scum clearly wasn't touching the COP and MEDIC groups where they were/are.
And yes while that doesn't necessarily mean there are any scum there (they could just be deliberately avoiding attacking those groups to make me think there are, and that they were all in VIGILANTE), since I was the COP I could actually verify the slots being generally avoided. The plan gave me both a place to start aiming at plus a higher %-chance-to-hit scum IMO. If I wasn't the COP myself I would be trusting whoever was to be paying attention and doing that. I was working towards it when I began with Hawthorn in MEDIC. I felt Leo was comfortably soft-confirmed Town (something he did on D1 that felt like innocent mistakes? Can't remember what it was exactly but I remember reading something like that about him then) so he was my last priority between clearing the 2 groups. My fucking luck I didn't scan Vere in COP or Kyan in MEDIC first, lol
My self-check was a bit of an oops but hindsight/foresight bleh. I thought it was a good idea but I should've been going for quantity over quality, realised that too late
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
I'll admit I didn't really think about that further because I was so busy trying to fuck up Vere. I just entered the Day thinking Zipped was scum for some reason and we totally got one >_>
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I was giving you a bit of a hard time for it but you would have been in pretty much the same position if you had checked Geno or Terra. You robbed yourself of a shot at finding mafia. It was a lost opportunity more than a complete disaster*
When you starting talking about fake red checking someone I lost it. What was that plan? I am usually good at not responding to PMs but i felt like I had to say something because that was close to game throwing.
*if ty was mafia it would have all worked out.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I mean I don't let people get extra info out of me. I appreciate any messages I am sent as mod.
I have 2 general stances.
1. I will answer your question and I will also answer it in the game thread.
2. No reply
When Blarg asked me about Self targeting it kind of broke that. He should know if he can self target, that is a game related question. But I can't clarify for everyone in the game thread during the game because it would tip everyone that the cop was alive.
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
You know when you're in a large group and there's a monster chasing you all? You trip someone because you're more important than them, right
Blargonaut
SCUM UP!
It wouldn't have worked without the MEDIC being alive anyway. Although I guess scum could've kill-stacked on me too if I did it either way. In the end though it would hinge on scum leaving me alive in the belief they're saving me the "unnecessary evil" for an ejection by Town in public. But the hope is by then I'd have used that extra time I bought by sacrificing innocents and have caught some or all the scum, which I would then info-dump for Town to follow-up on once I saw the tide turning against me and then beg them to believe me that this time I really found scum though never mind that I'm asking you to eject like 5 people total when there's only 3 scum. And with no flips to incriminate me earlier that might actually mitigate the need for begging a bit and so up the success rate. What I'm trying to say is that it's a bad plan which is why it never works in fiction but in [Mafia] who knows
Just skimming through, the situation seems even more dire for town. I was surprised to read that Blarg got the axe over Vere. Blarg you really went in this game, so I really respect your play. Hawthorn is also putting in mad work. I'd like to see town make a turn around, but it doesn't seem likely.
In another game I could potentially understand a self check. But in a "Normal" game with only three town power roles and scum with two kills per night, I don't see why that should remotely be a concern for you. In a game with low info, any info that we can get helps. The self scan especially hurt because me and Geno were already dead so the first couple days were basically a wash for town. Town's basically fighting a sword fight bare handed this game.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
It's over already unless scum just completely lose their minds
Stantastic
Our Badminton Stanpion
Have you met this community?
I enjoy being more townie as scum than when I'm town. I don't know if that is progress or not.
Actually thinking it over for me personally I think not having chat during the day helped a little bit. I think it made me react a little more organically than if we were bouncing ideas around in chat.
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
I think not being able to talk would also make you less likely to bus your partners.
If anything you still had too much communication. In live mafia you don't get to chat at night, all you can do is suggest someone to kill.
Leo
Quack Pack King
Yeah, that was it. What fucked me was that i don't have much meta knowledge about Blarg so he was so over the top in everything he did it was really hard for me not to scum read him. I tried hard to stay null on him but when Vere counter claimed him it was the push it needed, there was no turning back.
And Vere presented a perfect narrative if you were looking at the game in a certain way, every piece just fell into place. While Blarg had a lot of rough edges during the game (obviously, because he was town and he didn't have any info), Vere looked great in hindsight, always reading the right people, always voting right in the right time. And then he came with that claim that was just cherry on the top.
This game more than any else should be played entirely free of biases and preconceptions, but i fell into that trap because having no info at all was so hard that it made me want to believe something as a certainty, and that was the biggest mistake. Lesson learned, i hope!
I don't think its really possible to play free of bias/preconceptions/meta but I think the important thing is to realize what your blind spots are going to be in accordance for that and just make sure you double examine yourself there. I know its something that I have to work on myself a lot and still need to get better at.
Hawthorn
I'll explain my reasons later
Man, it was vindicating reading this thread!
I wish I knew who left this note.. I want to be friends with them!
I should have gone back to look at my own chart!
100% agree. When the game started I thought that were all supposed to submit PR actions & we'd find out later if we were real PRs, so I was thinking about what I would do as cop, and I had already decided to self-target on the first night. I would just rather have certainty than probabilities.
I definitely realized how important credibility is this game! I thought town play was all about figuring out who's mafia, but that's not enough. You also have to have the credibility to convince others.
That was the problem. It's just too attractive to have a solution that ties everything up. Great mafia play.
Meta-mafia!
I wish I knew who left this note.. I want to be friends with them!
Blarg's mechanics on the vigilante isn't exactly wrong. Other than the possibility of the vigilante stacking targets with mafia... but that is quite a long shot.
Which is why it isn't actually a bad idea for the vigilante to claim whenever they want, even on day 1. I don't think Terra was wrong to just hold both his shot and his claim. He could genuinely have had no expectation of dying in the night. Very unfortunate circumstances for town. If he was alive he opens the day by claiming and saying he didn't shoot. Everyone knows Swamped was town and they can work from there.
Claiming before you shoot gets out of this scenario Blarg describes where mafia can claim vigilante after deducing that the vig is dead.
Hawthorn did a good job of explaining her thoughts on the likely scenarios. They need to see there is no claim and now there are 3 possible scenarios where Swamped was town and only 1 where she was mafia.
I should have gone back to look at my own chart!
You know what, fuck it.
I sat on my hands not wanting to be criticised for not seeing whatever you were all seeing yesterday, but I just don't understand why that previous cop move bothers you all so much.
If I had that role it's the very first thing I'd have asked if I could do. It turns comparative speculation into confirmation. It's so damn obvious to me as a move that I'd have expected it to be disallowed and for the answer to be "lol no, of course not", but I'd still have asked.
And I refuse to let that person walk in here after the game and see all this lolwhuting and think nobody was on their side, even if the fact it's me saying I'd do it is more damning than any of your comments would be
... that newer plan though, nah.
Nu uh, that's not one I'd claim
100% agree. When the game started I thought that were all supposed to submit PR actions & we'd find out later if we were real PRs, so I was thinking about what I would do as cop, and I had already decided to self-target on the first night. I would just rather have certainty than probabilities.
I definitely realized how important credibility is this game! I thought town play was all about figuring out who's mafia, but that's not enough. You also have to have the credibility to convince others.
That was the problem. It's just too attractive to have a solution that ties everything up. Great mafia play.
Meta-mafia!
I’ll pass your message on. >.>
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