Scooby Doo 2: Mafia Unleashed - This time there are costumes!

[Alien]

I'm sorry everyone for how I have behaved this game.

I should have replaced out like normal.

I cant play this game if I'm gonna be mean to other players simply because I feel bad.

You've not done anything wrong. Please don't replace out.

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

My intention is to reread snowG and see why he was a target over me since i generally expect to die every night; current hypothesis is that I Have pretended to be pocketed by sans whereas ghost pushed a narrative where she’s scum; i remember nothing and don’t think i reread myself so maybe my predecessor crumbed vanilla and i’m being silly. Not sure.

People aren’t sure who I am? I’m :pikachushocked:, only thing I’ve done different is avoiding a few of my more common catchphrases.

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

Nope, don’t see any crumbs. It’s all just pirate talk and a few nice little jabs at scum. Good job, ambulance!

hope you’re not trying to strangle me from spec.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

My intention is to reread snowG and see why he was a target over me since i generally expect to die every night

Because snowG is the second most town confirmed after Wax

SnowG was townread by Vanilla Cop.

We flipped mafia goon already

 

[Wax Phantom]

god this is insanity

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

As I've already said MULTIPLE times I'm pretty clearly just shit at this game. You're gonna flip me, I already know this and as a result you're probably gonna lose. I'm sorry if I'm being abrasive. I just genuinely thought I had a chance to be a part of a town win. I'm vanilla Town. I said it like 3 day phases ago.

If you want me to stop posting I will. I tried to step up and play because I didn't want to just fade out and let myself die because town can't afford to just lose another player because they decided not to put any effort in. I'm really sorry if I upset anybody. I was just trying to look I other directions that I felt other people weren't.

I was being serious when I said I probably won't play again. I'm sick of feeling crap like this every time I play.

Whatever team you turn out to be, I respect your play ethic. It’s just a game in the end, we win some we lose some. There’s times when mafia bus a teammate and times town has to teamkill just to move on. It can still help solve. we all have mafia games that stress us beyond, it can be a real tough game.

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

Because snowG is the second most town confirmed after Wax

SnowG was townread by Vanilla Cop.

We flipped mafia goon already

I thought the green check was imaginary. Everything about the cop gambit seemed to be a lie except that he got a real good reaction out of Gnome.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

I thought the green check was imaginary. Everything about the cop gambit seemed to be a lie except that he got a real good reaction out of Gnome.

I assumed the greencheck was real since they really where a cop.

No way everything was a lie.

I'm kicking myself because last night I was coinfllipping between protect snowG and the player I did protect.


Notice I healed snack one day early then the claim meant no heal for the death.


Doctor is either really hard to play or I am really bad at it.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

I'm curious @San Franpsycho since you are confident at reading who people are.

I guess I will ask everyone else too.

If I did not reveal real self day 1 how long would it have taken you to know who I was?

 

[Alien]

I'm curious @San Franpsycho since you are confident at reading who people are.

I guess I will ask everyone else too.

If I did not reveal real self day 1 how long would it have taken you to know who I was?

I think day 4 or 5 when you posted like 15 times in a row about real identities would've been when I knew for sure

 

[San Franpsycho]

I'm curious @San Franpsycho since you are confident at reading who people are.

I guess I will ask everyone else too.

If I did not reveal real self day 1 how long would it have taken you to know who I was?

Your second post.

*sigh*

nobody shot me

I no longer think there’s any neutral after seeing light’s claim. Leaving aside Some probably smudgy details since i’ma try a new thing and let him play his role as he sees fit - either he IS the arsonist, or he is a multi-target doctor. If doctor then it makes sense team-wise for the arsonist to be a mafia role. Multi-kill, multi-save, no neutrals anywhere.

This is supported by *kill me* one of the mafia safe claims being Scrappy Doo, the most likely lore character to be placed as a neutral.

Do you think mafia has safe claims in this game? They also had a costume identity, so where was the need? Is this your main reason to think there's no neutral?

I just don't see that as a mafia role and I really don't understand why Lightning's role is seen as any way indicative of the arsonist's alignment. Can someone explain that to me? It's been bandied about but I don't get it. Kills are kills; what does it have to do with alignment? ELI5.

I just don't remember a mafia arsonist anywhere. That doesn't mean it's not possible, it just feels very OP for the mafia if there's no other balance. Mafia-neutral-wildOPdoctormaybe can balance each other, depending on powers. The other firefighter does seem like overkill but that feels more a balance issue than an alignment thing?

I don't think it matters too much but I'm just curious how y'all are doing the math here.

 

[San Franpsycho]

As for the green on SnowG, I think it was a real "green," it just wasn't an alignment green.

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

No i can’t break it down into smaller pieces than that. This is why I am not a coder.

It is what I think. You might say a multi-target doctor is OP for town if you looked at it that way. Maybe this is just a game of one superpower per team.

 

[San Franpsycho]

So while I wrote this out, I tried to cover all possibilities. What could happen if arsonist is neutral, what could happen if arsonist is mafia. I assumed there was at least 1 more mafia left. Keeping as general an assumption as possible, the endgame for mafia is unclear. I will admit that. I have a habit of examining all possibilities broadly, and then narrowing down to the ones I think are most likely. This is an element of how I solve, maybe it's a crappy way to do it.

If there's one mafia left and they ARE the arsonist, then this theory probably doesn't pass muster, which is why my second point of contention falters. If Neon is both the arsonist and the remaining scum, they would be stupid to do a move like this that would ultimately put their ass on the line once Kook and Alien had been voted out.

If there's two mafia left and one of them is the arsonist, this second point of contention is less so. Let's say they help convince town to vote out Kook and Alien, and they get night kills in, plus at least one ignite (Snow Creature) and an extra douse. That's at least five dead town in two days & nights, plus a doused person. Right now there's 8 people in the game. If we vote out a non-mafia and they succeed in killing at night and douse somebody, we'll be down to 6 players with 2 mafia and a townie doused. That puts us in a very perilous position where we will lose if we vote out non-mafia again.

If there's two mafia left AND a neutral arsonist, this second point of contention is similarly less so. Like I mentioned before, the mafia would be hoping for the arsonist to continue dousing and killing townies. If the arsonist douses mafia instead, they shift to arsonist hunting. If we vote out a townie today, mafia could kill someone tonight and someone could be doused, and we end up in a similar situation as above. The situation is arguably worse because there would be 3 killing roles in that situation instead of 2 like above.

If there's more than two mafia, then this is even worse because Scum!Neon could easily stick their neck out while letting their scummates hide.

Of course, now with the revelations of today, we know that we do have a protective role in Lightning. I think it was a fair assumption beforehand that town had a protective role of some sort, and surely mafia included that possibility in their strategies, which does weaken this theory somewhat. However, with mafia being on a bit of the backfoot due to losing 3 members 3 days in a row, it is possible they chose to make this gamble aiming for the worst case scenario (for town) to arise where Lightning fails to save the right townmate that is targeted. Mafia would not have known that Lightning's role is as powerful as it is, so that wouldn't have figured as heavily into their gamble.

So basically, there's a few possibilities based on how many scum remain and if arsonist is neutral. Personally, I believe there's 2 scum remaining. Maybe it's looking too much into flavour, but there's 5 members of the scooby gang. Unless 5 members was found to be hopelessly overpowered from a balance perspective, I don't see why it wouldn't adhere to that. I feel strongly on that point. As for whether arsonist is mafia or neutral, I don't feel quite as strongly about it, but I'm leaning towards neutral. However, as I explained, if there's 2 scum or if there's 2 scum + neutral arsonist, we could be boned if we vote out town today. Obviously I am thinking in worst case scenarios.

I follow the scenario logic. What I'm missing from the other post is how you get to the vote on Neon when it reads as "If Neon did this as mafia, it would be foolish." You get closer here but you just say "well, it's less risky if this, therefore vote." But I still don't see how you conclude that Neon is mafia. I've had a long day. Maybe I'm stupid. But please, fewer words, more direct: why Neon?

Not a judgment on the conclusion. I just want to SEE the conclusion.

 

[San Franpsycho]

No i can’t break it down into smaller pieces than that. This is why I am not a coder.

It is what I think. You might say a multi-target doctor is OP for town if you looked at it that way. Maybe this is just a game of one superpower per team.

All righty. I don't think it matters too much. I was just curious because I just go arsonist = neutral without overriding evidence. Town gets neutral counters all the time.

I have D&D tonight so in and out, probably.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Unvote

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Being so wrong about Kooky yesterday really Fucked me up.

I really have no clue what to do everything is second guessed

 

[BooBeard]

I follow the scenario logic. What I'm missing from the other post is how you get to the vote on Neon when it reads as "If Neon did this as mafia, it would be foolish." You get closer here but you just say "well, it's less risky if this, therefore vote." But I still don't see how you conclude that Neon is mafia. I've had a long day. Maybe I'm stupid. But please, fewer words, more direct: why Neon?

Not a judgment on the conclusion. I just want to SEE the conclusion.

Neon has played to the middle all game, you've said it yourself. Doing just enough solving and participating to not arouse suspicion. I also don't like how convenient and last minute their votes are.

There's 8 players left: I'm not scum, I'm choosing to believe you aren't scum, Lightning isn't scum, Wax isn't scum, I'm choosing to believe Alien is not scum (could be arsonist).

That leaves Neon, Pazzo, and Skunkbeard. I am most suspicious of Neon there.

So that plus the gamble of Neon sticking up for Alien knowing that with this crowd Alien will probably get axed anyway the next day. I think that's a scum play because if things go right based off that play, as I described in the scenarios, scum wins.

I think we need to hit scum today and I think Neon is scum. Hopefully that explains how I came to this point.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Don't let the Kook vote demoralize you. Town always get misvoted in games. It's going to happen and we can't beat ourselves up for it every time. I am sorry Kook was town but I don't regret the vote.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Neon has played to the middle all game, you've said it yourself. Doing just enough solving and participating to not arouse suspicion. I also don't like how convenient and last minute their votes are.

There's 8 players left: I'm not scum, I'm choosing to believe you aren't scum, Lightning isn't scum, Wax isn't scum, I'm choosing to believe Alien is not scum (could be arsonist).

That leaves Neon, Pazzo, and Skunkbeard. I am most suspicious of Neon there.

So that plus the gamble of Neon sticking up for Alien knowing that with this crowd Alien will probably get axed anyway the next day. I think that's a scum play because if things go right based off that play, as I described in the scenarios, scum wins.

I think we need to hit scum today and I think Neon is scum. Hopefully that explains how I came to this point.

Thank you for answering.

 

[Alien]

I'd be willing to believe Skunk and Pazzo as remaining scum. Try as I might I just can't shake the feeling I have about Sans being off.

I'm not really feeling Neon but IDK maybe I'm just feeling good there because they town read me.

Pretty confident everyone else is at least not Mafia though. If I'm wrong with these players then I'll just accept that they fooled me. Sans was right before in that Boo could be the Arsonist. I believe Lightning's claim and Wax is confirmed town.

As of right now my view is
Mafia - (probably) 2 of Skunk, Pazzo and Maybeee Sans

Arsonist (if not Mafia) - one of those 3, Boo or Neon

Town - Wax and Lightning, town leans on Boo and Neon but not particularly confident there.

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

Sorry, was out enjoying nature

I understand the attempts to link me and Boo though. 'Easy' vote on me today and then hope the rest of town follow onto Boo tomorrow like Lemmings. That'd fall apart when I flip though.

But.. I’m pushing for BooBeard, not you.

As I've already said MULTIPLE times I'm pretty clearly just shit at this game. You're gonna flip me, I already know this and as a result you're probably gonna lose. I'm sorry if I'm being abrasive. I just genuinely thought I had a chance to be a part of a town win. I'm vanilla Town. I said it like 3 day phases ago.

If you want me to stop posting I will. I tried to step up and play because I didn't want to just fade out and let myself die because town can't afford to just lose another player because they decided not to put any effort in. I'm really sorry if I upset anybody. I was just trying to look I other directions that I felt other people weren't.

I was being serious when I said I probably won't play again. I'm sick of feeling crap like this every time I play.

Breathe, it’s just a game

*sigh*

nobody shot me

I no longer think there’s any neutral after seeing light’s claim. Leaving aside Some probably smudgy details since i’ma try a new thing and let him play his role as he sees fit - either he IS the arsonist, or he is a multi-target doctor. If doctor then it makes sense team-wise for the arsonist to be a mafia role. Multi-kill, multi-save, no neutrals anywhere.

This is supported by *kill me* one of the mafia safe claims being Scrappy Doo, the most likely lore character to be placed as a neutral.

Erm, unless I’ve missed something no one has flipped from scum with Scrappy Doo as their fake flavor have they? What are you meaning with this? I can’t tell if I’m dumb and misunderstanding or what.

I'm sorry everyone for how I have behaved this game.

I should have replaced out like normal.

I cant play this game if I'm gonna be mean to other players simply because I feel bad.

You just breathe too

I thought the green check was imaginary. Everything about the cop gambit seemed to be a lie except that he got a real good reaction out of Gnome.

I just assumed it was a real vanilla check, but I guess that can be questioned given the lie by Snack.

I'm curious @San Franpsycho since you are confident at reading who people are.

I guess I will ask everyone else too.

If I did not reveal real self day 1 how long would it have taken you to know who I was?

I’m pretty sure I knew it was you part way through the post that you said your name in.

I'd be willing to believe Skunk and Pazzo as remaining scum. Try as I might I just can't shake the feeling I have about Sans being off.

I'm not really feeling Neon but IDK maybe I'm just feeling good there because they town read me.

Pretty confident everyone else is at least not Mafia though. If I'm wrong with these players then I'll just accept that they fooled me. Sans was right before in that Boo could be the Arsonist. I believe Lightning's claim and Wax is confirmed town.

As of right now my view is
Mafia - (probably) 2 of Skunk, Pazzo and Maybeee Sans

Arsonist (if not Mafia) - one of those 3, Boo or Neon

Town - Wax and Lightning, town leans on Boo and Neon but not particularly confident there.

How did you get to a town lean on Boo given when I looked back earlier I just saw you constantly being unsure and even voting him last phase iirc? Though I guess even here you’re waffling. Why is Sans third in your tier list when like five hours ago we were teammates in your mind?

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

Erm, unless I’ve missed something no one has flipped from scum with Scrappy Doo as their fake flavor have they? What are you meaning with this? I can’t tell if I’m dumb and misunderstanding or what.

Geno’s fake claim. He said he was scrappy doo.

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

Geno’s fake claim. He said he was scrappy doo.

Ohh okay, I just went back and checked flips thinking I had missed a reference to Scrappy and was so confused lol Totally spaced Geno had thrown that out

 

[San Franpsycho]

It's been a long day and I don't think I have much energy to try to untangle this tonight. The person I feel most certain about is Alien. I am feeling iffy about too many others. I'll dig back into the thread in the morning.

 

[San Franpsycho]

You know, i think I just feel iffy about the state of things. People are not working together. We jumped straight from several mafia in a row to Spider-men pointing at each other. It feels like with a few exceptions, everyone suspects literally everyone else and tbh that's reasonable. It's been an uneven game. But if Lightning is correct about his role, though, it's not a bad position to be in, so we need to figure out how to work together. Things have been very fractured and I know my dumbass cosplay factored into that in early game and I am trying to make up for it.

Right now I think: Alien is the arsonist.
I think: There are 1-2 mafia. I guess this even holds if the arsonist is mafia, as proposed by some.
We have a doctor who will live on at least for several days, possibly longer. This is an unbelievable benefit at endgame.
My positions:
Lightning and Wax are town.
Pazzo and Neon could potentially be mafia, but probably not together, and I also have some reasons to townread them both. Boo I am still working on. It's hard to parse someone in this position who knows the game but doesn't know the community, who picked up some but not all the language, who is involved but also operates in a weird space sort of to the left of everything. I'm trying to figure out how much of that I can trust to be genuine. That's where I'll keep reading in the morning.
I would like Skunkbeard to do more. Where does she go after Alien flips? Doubtful it ends the game, so what next? I know I don't have definitive answers either but I am trying to find out here. What's she thinking through? though, also:

Spoiler

(ironically in the post when she expressed surprise at not being known, I realized who she was. lol.)

I think Alien is a very safe vote. I think he has played a very good game but is almost certainly red. I would rather not waste the day on the safe vote if we're also safe in the game but I am banging my head trying to parse what's left.

Okay, now I'm really going to bed.

 

[Aeleus]

Votes for day 7 have been updated, sorry for the delay

 

[Neon Phantom]

I can see reasons to townread you. They are fewer and smaller. The reasons to scumread you are bigger and easier, and in abundance, so please, if you are town, make the others bigger.

God I wish I knew how.
I really do.

I don't *want* to sit around here being cagey, it just happens.

You know, i think I just feel iffy about the state of things. People are not working together. We jumped straight from several mafia in a row to Spider-men pointing at each other. It feels like with a few exceptions, everyone suspects literally everyone else and tbh that's reasonable. It's been an uneven game.

Yep, I'm certainly there.

Even trying to break it down into "who do I find more or less suspicious" is bleh at this point.

Geno’s fake claim. He said he was scrappy doo.

I think odds are he just bullshitted that.

 

[Neon Phantom]

I tried doing another full reread to try and work out how I really felt about all of this after all and I'm not quite done but as I have to put it on hold for a little I figured I'd get down where I am so far.

I might finally be able to pin down why I find Boo so off, at least.
On rereading I think he's tends to echo the general sentiment at the time he posts, shifts the wording a bit, but generally ends up commenting in agreement. There are occasions where he's put something down to see if anyone will run with it, but didn't try to make it move himself.
Even his case on me echoes sentiments already expressed, he tried to puff it up by waffling through reasonings for why I would do that combination of anythings but ended up defaulting back to "I was agreeing with you" when questioned.

Pazzo makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I can't actually point to a specific reason why so for the moment all I can do is make my stance known rather than understood.

I still feel iffy about Sans, going over the early game where she was slapping down objecting opinions rather than promoting discussion of them made me feel worse, not better. At the same time the recent appeals for myself and Skunkbeard to buck up feel genuine whereas logic tells me if she were scum she'd be happy for us to stagnate.

I might be feeling a little better about Captain.

Let me try this not voting at the last minute thing out.
Vote: BooBeard

 

[San Franpsycho]

Good morning. I have had four hours sleep and two meetings already. I feel like I'm about to reach my final form, but it's just me combusting.

 

[BooBeard]

I might finally be able to pin down why I find Boo so off, at least.
On rereading I think he's tends to echo the general sentiment at the time he posts, shifts the wording a bit, but generally ends up commenting in agreement. There are occasions where he's put something down to see if anyone will run with it, but didn't try to make it move himself.
Even his case on me echoes sentiments already expressed, he tried to puff it up by waffling through reasonings for why I would do that combination of anythings but ended up defaulting back to "I was agreeing with you" when questioned.

That "generally" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. I don't always agree with the prevailing sentiment, though I certainly do sometimes. There's been a lot of "obvious" wagons so far, you could be accused of doing the same. I started pushing Woodsman early before a lot of people did. I did a big write up on Snow Creature early on because I was scum reading them, but as the game went on I began to town read them more and more as I saw more of their play, even though others such as Skunkbeard still wanted Snow Creature flipped and was bargaining with the arsonist to flip them so town wouldn't have to.

I'm curious, do you think I'm scum, or arsonist, or both?

 

[BooBeard]

I did a re-read on Skunkbeard yesterday like I said I wanted to but I let my thoughts collect overnight before posting about them. I don't think there's much of concern there so far. The "weirdest" thing Skunkbeard has done was bargain with the arsonist, but that just feels like a WIFOM tornado where you can read anything you want from that post so I'm choosing to say it's NAI. I think I will choose to believe they are town for now.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Pazzo makes me incredibly uncomfortable, but I can't actually point to a specific reason why so for the moment all I can do is make my stance known rather than understood.

I still feel iffy about Sans, going over the early game where she was slapping down objecting opinions rather than promoting discussion of them made me feel worse, not better. At the same time the recent appeals for myself and Skunkbeard to buck up feel genuine whereas logic tells me if she were scum she'd be happy for us to stagnate.

I might be feeling a little better about Captain.

On my reread of Pazzo, I felt like he was fine when he was here. He engages and doesn't seem to hold back. He has some good ideas. But then there are just... gaps. And maybe he's busy. But it's also very convenient. I don't feel like I'm ready to go full conspiracy and I think I'd have to in order to reconcile some of Pazzo's actions with scum strategy.

My early game will just have to be what it is. Turns out even fake Sorian is exactly as good at being town as I thought he was. I dropped it for a lot of reasons, but I did find it helpful in pushing people for reactions. Good for building early reads. Shit for solving complicated tangles. But it's for y'all to weigh.

Skunkbeard is up next on my rereads. Boo I'll post about shortly.

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

You know, i think I just feel iffy about the state of things. People are not working together. We jumped straight from several mafia in a row to Spider-men pointing at each other. It feels like with a few exceptions, everyone suspects literally everyone else and tbh that's reasonable. It's been an uneven game. But if Lightning is correct about his role, though, it's not a bad position to be in, so we need to figure out how to work together. Things have been very fractured and I know my dumbass cosplay factored into that in early game and I am trying to make up for it.

Right now I think: Alien is the arsonist.
I think: There are 1-2 mafia. I guess this even holds if the arsonist is mafia, as proposed by some.
We have a doctor who will live on at least for several days, possibly longer. This is an unbelievable benefit at endgame.
My positions:
Lightning and Wax are town.
Pazzo and Neon could potentially be mafia, but probably not together, and I also have some reasons to townread them both. Boo I am still working on. It's hard to parse someone in this position who knows the game but doesn't know the community, who picked up some but not all the language, who is involved but also operates in a weird space sort of to the left of everything. I'm trying to figure out how much of that I can trust to be genuine. That's where I'll keep reading in the morning.
I would like Skunkbeard to do more. Where does she go after Alien flips? Doubtful it ends the game, so what next? I know I don't have definitive answers either but I am trying to find out here. What's she thinking through? though, also:

Spoiler

(ironically in the post when she expressed surprise at not being known, I realized who she was. lol.)

I think Alien is a very safe vote. I think he has played a very good game but is almost certainly red. I would rather not waste the day on the safe vote if we're also safe in the game but I am banging my head trying to parse what's left.

Okay, now I'm really going to bed.

I think the part that has made everyone wary is the gradual degradation of people's town reads. That combined with some multikill nights has just taken the wind out of our sails despite a good start to the game. I've had to check myself from not going full paranoia and turning on Skunkbeard and you. I'll admit Skunkbeard is really still riding off the coattails of the original costume occupant's meta plus a pretty strong early entrance post-replacement. They also just haven't done anything to really ping my radar as scummy, and with the POE from my POV being what it is I feel strongly there are scum within it - so I'm not ready to go for a deep wolf. In my head it's Lightning and Wax as safe, Skunkbeard and you as shelved with the hope some of it will just be resolved via NKs eventually (or we'll get a save from the doc potentially that could clear), and then everyone else as the pool that needs to be dug into more.

On my reread of Pazzo, I felt like he was fine when he was here. He engages and doesn't seem to hold back. He has some good ideas. But then there are just... gaps. And maybe he's busy. But it's also very convenient. I don't feel like I'm ready to go full conspiracy and I think I'd have to in order to reconcile some of Pazzo's actions with scum strategy.

My early game will just have to be what it is. Turns out even fake Sorian is exactly as good at being town as I thought he was. I dropped it for a lot of reasons, but I did find it helpful in pushing people for reactions. Good for building early reads. Shit for solving complicated tangles. But it's for y'all to weigh.

Skunkbeard is up next on my rereads. Boo I'll post about shortly.

It's mostly been me being busy. You have the unique advantage to know I just have a lot going on in my life, but I'm not going to act like I COULDN'T have done more if I'd dedicated myself. Sometimes you just feel lazy after a long day of working/social interactions and don't want to hunker down and play mafia. Yeah, that's my bad and if it costs us then that's pie on my face ultimately.

Going to be in and out today, but nothing thus far has rattled my confidence in the Boo vote. I think D1 just looks entirely different now that we've seen a lot more flips than it did initially. I'll try and be here for day end, but I can't promise it - just depends how today breaks with work.

 

[Neon Phantom]

That "generally" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

Possibly.

I'm curious, do you think I'm scum, or arsonist, or both?

Quite frankly, I am clawing for every read at this point so I don't care which variety of suspicious nightly murderer you are.

You're clearly not of the position that the play for the two has to be mutually exclusive so why should I be.
You're mutable enough that you could fit both holes.

That Pazzo might want you dead makes me want to say Arsonist, but that's just because it's easier to rationalise voting alongside my scumreads if they have actual reason to want each other dead too beyond unnecessary bussing.

 

[San Franpsycho]

The issue I'm having is that BooBeard sounds great but on a deep dive the progression makes no sense and I have no idea how he's getting from point A to point F. I can see both sides of the Neon/Boo divide - Boo IS very agreeable when he's talking to people but Boo is right in that there was a lot of early consensus. Problem is that now there's not and he's still that way. But that's not the only weirdness in his ISO. I pulled out some examples I want to go through.

No, it's not really a progression thing. It's a lack of internal consistency. (Sorry, I wrote the post and reread and realized it's actually this. The same things get read differently by Boo throughout the game.)

Thanks gang for not voting me out Day 1. I really am a new player, I can claim my ERA username if you'd like, it won't change much.

Char was on an island Day 1 and seems to continue to draw some ire today. Gnome defending them is interesting, but could be nothing. I'm continuing to keep an eye on Char.

More suspicious is Ghost Bear, who "had to miss end of day" yesterday, and barely participated otherwise, only slapping down a No Vote and then quickly changing after getting called out. I'm getting scum coasting vibes.

Let's start here. Boo was up front about targeting Ghost Beard due to coasting. This gets important later, I think.

Alright I've got some time at lunch so I'll post my reads here. They might not be amazing because I haven't learned The Art of the Read quite yet.

Wax Phantom: Wax is either an obvious roleplay or somebody who does not care about costumes, judging by others' comments. I don't know the person who they are/seem to be, either way. They exploded with a flurry of posts early into Day 1 and backed off into the shadows later in the day. Feels like an obfuscation play to me. The gimmick could just be fun for the costume game, but then why back off so abruptly? That doesn't seem like a town behaviour to me. I'm leaning scum but I need to see how they post Day 2.

Pazzo: Has been making pretty clear, nicely measured and explained reads throughout. I'm getting town vibes. I would be surprised if they were scum.

Snack: Very active and very actively trying to solve the game. Activity does not indicate roles, however. I am feeling a huge town indicator, but so much so that it almost feels too much? I trust them right now, but if they live late into the game I would become more suspicious depending on how things go. Maybe I am just getting too much into my own head.

Skunkbeard: Faded into the background a bit but is getting called out for it today and trying to once again recede from the spotlight. I do agree with their vote on Ghost Bear. A null read for now but someone to watch.

Lightning: Seems very sincere in their arguments. Arguments are well thought out and explained, as well. Doesn't seem to care what people think of them. Town lean for sure.

San: Seems very town. They are eager to cut through the bullshit and get to solving properly.

Alien: If Alien is who I think they are then I believe they would've sacrificed themselves for me regardless of their alignment. I do believe them when they say their role is uninteresting. Unsure on this one.

Hyde Monster: I'm having trouble reading Hyde, and not in a null read kinda way. They seem to bounce from point to point without sticking anywhere too long.

Cat Creature: Cat's vote jumped around a lot end of Day 1, from Anthos to Char to Skunkbeard. Kinda weird, but I'll excuse it for Day 1. I get a slight town lean from their postings otherwise.

Spooky Space Kook: They seem really nice? I know this isn't a game about being nice and you could be a perfectly polite scum. I lean ever so slightly town for them.

I've already posted my thoughts on Char and Ghost Bear today, they haven't changed. Anyone I didn't mention I am unsure on or are mostly inactive. I'm going back to work now so I won't post anymore for a bit. If nothing changes I see myself voting Ghost Bear near the end of the (real life) day, after work.

So here: he has a read on Ghost Bear for inactivity but skips a lot of people due to... inactivity. Ghost Beard also had some weirdness on Boo, so sure, there's some OMGUS to it, but I want to focus on this Ghost Bear thing for reasons that will become clear throughout this post. I also want to point out how much SPACE he's leaving in this reads.
Skunk: doing the same as Ghost Bear but also voted for Ghost Bear so... null. This one really sticks out to me for future reasons.
Hyde bounces a lot (leaving space for future reads; this is a summary statement, description, not a read)
Cat: also jumps around, excusing d1 BUT town - reads as "there are reasons to read both ways" i.e. leaving space
Kook: is nice and that could be scum? But also town - leaving space to flip back.

Then the others: Lightning and I get firm town reads for not caring what others think but I also had an exhange with Boo in which he indicted me for that but I didn't grab it. I can go back and look. Pazzo and Snack get described pretty much the same way if you deep read but he reads them differently. I don't know why.

Noted again: the weird "Alien would sac themselves for me regardless." This one because it just seems so weird for any alignment so I guess it may just be a Booism.

The Wax thing gives me some pause because a Boo on a team would probably get info about Wax. But I think at the time the prevailing idea was that Wax was not actually who Wax seems to be but a fake, so I'm not sure if that's meaningful at the point this post was made.

I think Wax is scum but it's not really because of the RP. The RP itself doesn't indicate anything, it's what they're doing with the RP. If they were still trying to solve the game that would be one thing, but they've impeded progress and caused distractions, but only until there was a greater distraction and then backed off. I'm good to vote either Wax or Ghost Bear today, but I'm sticking with Ghost Bear for now.

Char, you're taking a lot of heat and seem to have really tunneled onto Wax. I understand why you would be defensive in this situation, but you don't seem to be doing yourself any favours. @Char Gar Gothakon what are your plans if Wax isn't voted out right away? Are you just going to keep going on about them? I'm genuinely curious I'm not trying to attack you.

In hindsight this could be read a lot of ways, like giving Char an out. I don't really have my mind made up but I thought I'd pull it out if anyone else did.

Well Ghost Bear was not scum unfortunately, merely an inattentive townie who was not interested in actually playing the game. With so many people on the wagon, it was definitely not a pure vote.

I’m going to start with Skunkbeard. As I mentioned in post #1117, the Captain has been hard to read. They haven’t made a lot of moves. I also mentioned that I don’t think Skunk would be bussing Ghost Bear. Ghost Bear has proven to not be scum, which puts the Captain under further suspicion. They actually started both of the wagons that resulted in an elimination so far, being the first to vote for Anthos Day 1 and Ghost Bear Day 2:


Skunkbeard is currently a prime suspect based on this, but I don’t feel quite strongly enough to put down a vote just yet, mainly as a result of their inactivity. It doesn't seem like they are playing the game, so if they're frustrated and want to sub out I get it. It is possible they are a townie and got very unlucky with starting two separate wagons that eliminated town. I need to hear more from them. @Captain Skunkbeard do you have any reads that you would like to share?

This is a red flag to me in hindsight. At that point, going from one low activity poster immediately to another one not only looks bad, but it looks like it's absolutely setup from the earlier reads. "Welp, this inactive isn't it so it must be this one who voted for them." But. Why? And of course they weren't bussing - what a weird thing to call back to here.

This is weird and I want to talk about it. If he is scum and he knew how the flip would go, he could be trying to get townie cred for a really good “read”.


If he is town this is a ludicrously ballsy play. I’d like to see what others with more experience think. Can anyone chime in? Based on what I do know of jman, I could genuinely see him doing this in earnest as town. There’s always the possibility it is not the real jman but a RP, but I am choosing to believe he is telling the truth about that point. I'm sticking with a null read for now, I don't think this means much at all, but I was taken aback and I'd like some perspective.

This just sticks out all over the place. How much would Boo have to backread before play to know much of anything of jman? This makes the Wax/Char stuff more interesting instead of less. It's also a lot of words to say "I don't have a read; someone please give me one."

There's a lot of good points here. San has been such a dominant player in this game so far and yet she hasn't been nightkilled. The longer that goes on the more suspicious she gets. Also reading through this I realize a lot of my suspicion on Kook comes from San. I need to sleep on this and re-evaluate my thoughts.

Interestingly this has not changed but the approach has. I'll get back to this in a second.

Okay here's where my head is at today, whatever it's worth:

Town:
Wax Phantom
Lightning Strikes
The Ghost of Stealin Stan

Town-lean:
Pazzo the Ghost Clown
Captain Skunkbeard
Snow Ghost

Neutral:
Spooky Space Kook
Alien
Neon Phantom
Snow Creature

Scum-lean:
San Franpsycho
Woodsman

There's no sorting within the tiers. After sleeping on it I really am suspecting San now. It would help explain their constant fighting with Baba, who flipped town. I don't believe San is the arsonist, I think they are likely scum but if not they are town. Their flip will decide if I pursue Woodsman tomorrow. I am okay with a Woodsman kill today if we decide to pursue that route instead but I would go for San first.

Vote: San Franpsycho

I still need to do a whole thread re-read with the new knowledge gained from the recent flips. Work is really tough lately and I've been feeling under the weather, but I won't let that be an excuse.

One of those with no work to reconcile where I was on Woodsman - not as blatant as Alien's, but it's definitely missing.

New!Skunkbeard seems like a pro to me because they've managed to successfully drop in and exude big town energy with their reads and questioning. If it wasn't for Old!Skunkbeard I would have them in town-lean instead of neutral, but I have no idea how to read replacements players and compare them to pre-replacements so I think neutral is fine for now for me.

So here we go. Skunkbeard went from:
null-but-not-bussing for voting on Ghost Bear to
scum for inactivity (like Ghost Bear), to
null for new person to...

I did a re-read on Skunkbeard yesterday like I said I wanted to but I let my thoughts collect overnight before posting about them. I don't think there's much of concern there so far. The "weirdest" thing Skunkbeard has done was bargain with the arsonist, but that just feels like a WIFOM tornado where you can read anything you want from that post so I'm choosing to say it's NAI. I think I will choose to believe they are town for now.

Town now for doing... less than she did when she first came in. How? This is what I mean when I talk about internal consistency. The same things get read differently throughout Boo's ISO. It's absolutely possible this is just new player shit. But it's hard to read Boo as new player shit when they are also doing everything "right" at a level that a new player wouldn't. So I don't think I can just leave it as "new player shit."

Okay I'm back from eating cake and playing Mario Golf with my dad.

That is an extremely ridiculous power set. @Lightning Strikes so obviously you are going to self-heal today because otherwise you would be the obvious kill for scum. Will you reveal who you healed last night during next day phase? Also by dying night 8, do you just mean because your powers will be used up by then or will you die night 8 no matter what?

Then, this. This is a real big fish.

Neon has played to the middle all game, you've said it yourself. Doing just enough solving and participating to not arouse suspicion. I also don't like how convenient and last minute their votes are.

There's 8 players left: I'm not scum, I'm choosing to believe you aren't scum, Lightning isn't scum, Wax isn't scum, I'm choosing to believe Alien is not scum (could be arsonist).

That leaves Neon, Pazzo, and Skunkbeard. I am most suspicious of Neon there.

So that plus the gamble of Neon sticking up for Alien knowing that with this crowd Alien will probably get axed anyway the next day. I think that's a scum play because if things go right based off that play, as I described in the scenarios, scum wins.

I think we need to hit scum today and I think Neon is scum. Hopefully that explains how I came to this point.

So back to me. I'm town again here, but also I'm still alive and last night's kill definitely sticks out. So why am I not still suspicious for the crime of survival?

My questioning of the internal logic of the Neon read stands, by the way. Boo has explained but I still don't see how he comes to a scumread there. *I* can get to a scumread but using only his logic, I don't see how *HE* gets to a scumread.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Boo also argues he was on Woodsman early, and yeah he voted, but... this is all I could really find.

I like Snack, Hyde, Frankenstein, Woodsman, Gnome and San Fran. They feel town leaning to me.

Town at first. Then:

"Yes, Gnome is okay but what if we took this time to vote Woodsman as a prod without saying anything about them at all?" What a day to offer scum as a counterwagon, too. This feels as close to a smoking gun as I can get.

I'm okay with the Gnome vote. We'll get some direction with the flip. Sorry if you're telling the truth, Gnome. I'm not gonna park my vote there for now because I'd like to see another wagon and not turbo.

I also want to hear from Char about his conversation with Tech.

In the meanwhile, here's the list of votes on Ghost Bear and my brief thoughts on them before I log off for the night:

Captain Skunkbeard:
-Like I said previously, suspicious, but I don't necessarily want to pursue this lead at this time

Snow Creature:
-I get a slight town lean here

BooBeard:
-It'sa me

Snow Ghost:
-I get a null read here, if Gnome flips scum then I trust Snack that Snow Ghost is town

The Ghost of Stealin Stan:
-Bit of a weathervane, jumping on the most popular vote doesn't seem indicative of anything. I wouldn't be surprised if they were scum but it's not a strong read.

Neon Phantom:
-Town lean

Hyde Monster:
-Mason, no reason to doubt claim

Char Gar Gothakon:
-I've been suspicious of Char all game but with the recent revelations I'm okay with waiting on this one

Scooby Snack Monster:
-Town

Pazzo the Ghost Clown:
-Town

Gnome:
-I thought town Day 1, leaned to unsure Day 2, now starting to think scum

Spooky Space Kook:
-Town lean

So potentially around 2-4 scum votes? I don't want to put my vote down on these right now. Instead I'd like to prod Woodsman to reply, they've been awfully quiet lately.

Vote: Woodsman

@Woodsman what do you think about this Gnome business?

Stan looks good after the Char flip. Kook on the other hand looks worse.

Cat raised good points about Woodsman yesterday so I'm starting to question my prior read on them, combined with the Char flip as well.

So first they were on top of your list, but then they weren't the most suspicious? Very interesting.

Here's some light questioning to Woodsman.

And then... this:

Scum-lean:
San Franpsycho
Woodsman

There's no sorting within the tiers. After sleeping on it I really am suspecting San now. It would help explain their constant fighting with Baba, who flipped town. I don't believe San is the arsonist, I think they are likely scum but if not they are town. Their flip will decide if I pursue Woodsman tomorrow. I am okay with a Woodsman kill today if we decide to pursue that route instead but I would go for San first.

Vote: San Franpsycho

I still need to do a whole thread re-read with the new knowledge gained from the recent flips. Work is really tough lately and I've been feeling under the weather, but I won't let that be an excuse.

So if I'm missing something, Boo, about you being "on" Woodsman early, please show me?

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

All righty. I don't think it matters too much. I was just curious because I just go arsonist = neutral without overriding evidence. Town gets neutral counters all the time.

I have D&D tonight so in and out, probably.

The evidence is that they’re not a very basic serial killer who just has to reach 3, because they would have won and left. They could be a neutral serial killer who has to live to the end, sure. Or they could be mafia and a way to stack up the kills.

I would like Skunkbeard to do more. Where does she go after Alien flips? Doubtful it ends the game, so what next? I know I don't have definitive answers either but I am trying to find out here. What's she thinking through? though, also:

Spoiler

undefined

I’m not going to do more than I can do, I got stuff.

Tomorrow’s [phase] work can be done tomorrow, or maybe I’ll be the night kill. whether the “red check” is a neutral or a mafia, I don’t see the point in holding off on flipping it; that is something to handwring about when a game has caught insufficient mafia members, yes, but not when probably 3/5 are dead and it’s very possible this “red” is also mafia.

Of course it won’t end the game, i don’t believe there are only 4 mafia and no neutrals even if the arsonist is mafia.

If alien flips red, I’m thinking boobeard looks like mafia for previous play and relation to the flipped mafia, wouldn’t matter which red alignment alien came out. If mafia san looks bad for wanting to avoid letting alien die. It’s always ”no, we can do that one tomorrow” which is a common scum partner tactic. If neutral then san COULD look bad based on wanting to keep the much-more-effective town killer around.

If alien flipped green I’d need to reassess everything, which is why I want this flip today. I need to see it to get a better handle on the middle players.

 

[BooBeard]

Possibly.


Quite frankly, I am clawing for every read at this point so I don't care which variety of suspicious nightly murderer you are.

You're clearly not of the position that the play for the two has to be mutually exclusive so why should I be.
You're mutable enough that you could fit both holes.

That Pazzo might want you dead makes me want to say Arsonist, but that's just because it's easier to rationalise voting alongside my scumreads if they have actual reason to want each other dead too beyond unnecessary bussing.

Alright thank you for the response.

@San Franpsycho I'll get into your points, let me write something up. You're lucky that I just had an hour-long meeting at work get cancelled. I don't have any crazy defense, a lot of my lack of consistency is due to being a new player. I did a lot of research beforehand and read through some games, but I really am learning as I go. The reason I signed up for this game is because I wanted to practice playing Mafia after not playing it for years and years, because I was excited for the upcoming Fate/Mafia 2 that my friends in FGOEra told me about and I didn't want to just go in without experience for that one because I'm a big Fate fanboy and wanted to last a while in it. This game just happened to be the first game available, I think joining a costume game maybe wasn't the best choice in hindsight but whatever. I've been using this game as an opportunity to try a bunch of different things, learn, and see what works. That definitely kills any consistency I have. I'm kinda shocked I've lived this long, to be honest? I thought I would certainly have been voted out or night killed by this point, just based on my disastrous Day 1 alone. Every extra day phase I live I am treating as an opportunity to learn more. If y'all have gone easy on me and let me live so far then I appreciate it. If you think I'm the best vote today or tomorrow or if I get night killed then oh well, my time has come. That said, I really want town to win and I am trying to help make that happen.

Okay I'll get into your individual points now, but like I said don't expect anything amazing.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

alien flips red, I’m thinking boobeard looks like mafia for previous play and relation to the flipped mafia

Once again there "connections" are from outside the game they claim to know each other.

I have seen nothing to suggest they are the same alignment.

 

[Captain Skunkbeard]

Once again there "connections" are from outside the game they claim to know each other.

I have seen nothing to suggest they are the same alignment.

I said, relation to flipped mafia.

Anyway I have said what I’ve got and I don’t expect to return today. I have things.

 

[BooBeard]

I also want to point out how much SPACE he's leaving in this reads.

I had to re-read this part a few times to understand what leaving space in my reads means, but I think I understand. I wasn’t firm enough in my reads. I left them open to interpretation, which could be seen as a scum behaviour because you can fill them in later either way and go “see I said it like this!”. I didn’t intend to write my reads like this, they were just bad reads by an inexperienced player. I like to think I’ve gotten a teensy bit better over the course of the game but maybe I’m still shit at reads in a different way.

Noted again: the weird "Alien would sac themselves for me regardless." This one because it just seems so weird for any alignment so I guess it may just be a Booism.

The “Alien would sacrifice themselves for me regardless” post was a double boner of a move, because one I was initially wrong about who I thought Alien was, I’m way more certain now (like 99%) and two, I felt so freaking bad that they did this Day 1. I just threw this out there to try and put some distance between us because I didn’t want them to be linked to me all game because I’m a dumbass and I’ll ruin their game. For the record we aren’t linked, if you flip us it’ll be proven.

In hindsight this could be read a lot of ways, like giving Char an out. I don't really have my mind made up but I thought I'd pull it out if anyone else did.

I wasn’t trying to give Char an out. I didn’t know who Char actually was unlike a lot of others, so I didn’t know they were using their anger as a scum tool. I was trying to be kind here. I saw someone melting down and I wanted to be nice, while still questioning them. I’m too much of a big softy for my own good. I know it’s a game and you have to be ruthless. Starting to think I’m not cut out for this game honestly but I won’t get into that now, maybe after the game is over.

This is a red flag to me in hindsight. At that point, going from one low activity poster immediately to another one not only looks bad, but it looks like it's absolutely setup from the earlier reads. "Welp, this inactive isn't it so it must be this one who voted for them." But. Why? And of course they weren't bussing - what a weird thing to call back to here.

Going from one inactive poster to another was a dumb move yeah. I forget when it was, but at some point this game San you said “why are you thinking in chains” and I didn’t realize what you meant right away but after thinking about it for a bit, it was like a eureka moment. I realized that I was consistently doing this and going “oh if they flip like this then I’ll vote so-and-so next” which is just terrible logic. You need to draw in all points of possible information before making your decision instead of just pre-supposing like that. So, credit to you for making me a better mafia player lol.

This just sticks out all over the place. How much would Boo have to backread before play to know much of anything of jman? This makes the Wax/Char stuff more interesting instead of less. It's also a lot of words to say "I don't have a read; someone please give me one."

I knew about jman because I read the entirety of Fate/Mafia before this, also I’m active in the NBA Era thread. Fuck the Clippers

So here we go. Skunkbeard went from:
null-but-not-bussing for voting on Ghost Bear to
scum for inactivity (like Ghost Bear), to
null for new person to...

Town now for doing... less than she did when she first came in. How? This is what I mean when I talk about internal consistency. The same things get read differently throughout Boo's ISO. It's absolutely possible this is just new player shit. But it's hard to read Boo as new player shit when they are also doing everything "right" at a level that a new player wouldn't. So I don't think I can just leave it as "new player shit."

Then, this. This is a real big fish.


So back to me. I'm town again here, but also I'm still alive and last night's kill definitely sticks out. So why am I not still suspicious for the crime of survival?

My questioning of the internal logic of the Neon read stands, by the way. Boo has explained but I still don't see how he comes to a scumread there. *I* can get to a scumread but using only his logic, I don't see how *HE* gets to a scumread.

Boo also argues he was on Woodsman early, and yeah he voted, but... this is all I could really find.


Town at first. Then:

"Yes, Gnome is okay but what if we took this time to vote Woodsman as a prod without saying anything about them at all?" What a day to offer scum as a counterwagon, too. This feels as close to a smoking gun as I can get.



Here's some light questioning to Woodsman.

And then... this:

So if I'm missing something, Boo, about you being "on" Woodsman early, please show me?

 

[BooBeard]

Ah I fucked up the post

 

[San Franpsycho]

I may not be back until an hour or so before EoD. I have a book proposal and three article drafts due mid-month, y'all, so when I say I'm tired, I mean I am bone deep fucking exhausted and my brain is at the limit and everyone decided this week was a good week for meetings on top of it. I am doing my best and mostly I am waiting for answers anyway.

 

[BooBeard]

Ctrl+Enter should not auto post damnit. My mouse is broken too, the scroll wheel died on me a few days ago and I'm still waiting on a new mouse from amazon. Sorry.

So here we go. Skunkbeard went from:
null-but-not-bussing for voting on Ghost Bear to
scum for inactivity (like Ghost Bear), to
null for new person to...

Town now for doing... less than she did when she first came in. How? This is what I mean when I talk about internal consistency. The same things get read differently throughout Boo's ISO. It's absolutely possible this is just new player shit. But it's hard to read Boo as new player shit when they are also doing everything "right" at a level that a new player wouldn't. So I don't think I can just leave it as "new player shit."

This is definitely new player shit. I don't have anything else to defend myself for this point.

Then, this. This is a real big fish.

I need to learn what fishing specifically is because I keep doing it by accident. Is it just anything involving asking about roles? Lightning told his role, I wanted to learn how it worked. He straight up said anyone can ask if they have questions. I want to know for going forward so I can avoid doing this in the future.

So back to me. I'm town again here, but also I'm still alive and last night's kill definitely sticks out. So why am I not still suspicious for the crime of survival?

I’ve already said why I changed my mind on you. After everything with Woodsman, I don’t think you’re scum. You’ve made other anti-scum moves since then as well, like prodding people to action today.

Boo also argues he was on Woodsman early, and yeah he voted, but... this is all I could really find.


Town at first. Then:

"Yes, Gnome is okay but what if we took this time to vote Woodsman as a prod without saying anything about them at all?" What a day to offer scum as a counterwagon, too. This feels as close to a smoking gun as I can get.



Here's some light questioning to Woodsman.

And then... this:

So if I'm missing something, Boo, about you being "on" Woodsman early, please show me?

I stand by that I was on Woodsman, you quoted all the relevant posts. In hindsight I should’ve been way stronger on them because I scumread them hard, but I was scared of being wrong so I didn’t show it enough. I understand now that it looked bad to not jump on the Gnome vote, but you have to admit that me jumping on another scum instead makes it look better right? Or actually maybe not because it turned out Woodsman was the goon and Gnome had a more powerful role. The situation with Gnome and Woodsman was me thinking they are both scum and we could get two wagons going for more information with Gnome ultimately being voted out, but I didn't know that nobody would bother with a second wagon after a "confirmed" red check. I won't make that mistake again.

Okay I think that's everything. Sorry for breaking it into multiple posts.

 

[Neon Phantom]

Somehow those last couple of posts from Skunkbeard made that "a little better" feeling I had earlier start to fade again.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Somehow those last couple of posts from Skunkbeard made that "a little better" feeling I had earlier start to fade again.

very big "I don't care what happens, I have inflexible views of this game state" energy.

I kinda hate the while "I don't need to do any of this today" approach while also indicting me for saying one specific person (whom I'm also voting for!) can probably wait until tomorrow because my read of them is that they literally cannot do anything at all today. Especially since... she seems to agree on the read overall?

No, I do not like those posts either, but of course she's the person I haven't had time to reread this phase either.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Like... if I just jumped up and down and screamed even more that ALIEN IS THE ARSONIST and focused there like she's doing, then it's just another jump tomorrow (if I'm right) to "well it's easy for scum to focus on the arsonist." damned if I do, etc.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Wait though, wait a sec. Is that a reason to push this whole idea that the arsonist is definitely mafia somehow despite arsonists and SKs usually being neutral?

 

[Neon Phantom]

What, because you think he's less dangerous if he's the arsonist, but she thinks if she pushes that he's mafia regardless then that's not the case and people will feel more pressure to vote there?
You think she wants him flipped that badly?

 

[San Franpsycho]

I don't think I can make a judgment on that at this time. I'll see if I can reread her before EoD, though, since it's not like anything else is going on. Let me look at this Boo stuff first. Right now it looks like if both wagons stay the same and they self pres, we are deadlocked or Lightning decides it, but I expect there should be SOME flurry of activity here.

 

[San Franpsycho]

What, because you think he's less dangerous if he's the arsonist, but she thinks if she pushes that he's mafia regardless then that's not the case and people will feel more pressure to vote there?
You think she wants him flipped that badly?

No, more like if she pushes that he's mafia, mafia, mafia, she still gets "credit" if he's neutral but it's easy for HER to hide there if she's scum.

But yes, I do think he's less dangerous if he's the arsonist because... all signs point to him being less dangerous if he's the arsonist. Which I guess has been my sticking point this whole time on the alignment thing.

 

[Alien]

Tomorrow will be fun

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

Once again there "connections" are from outside the game they claim to know each other.

I have seen nothing to suggest they are the same alignment.

Let me go the opposite way, do you explicitly think they are not the same alignment then? I can't tell if this is you giving a read on the situation or stating an absence of a read.

The “Alien would sacrifice themselves for me regardless” post was a double boner of a move, because one I was initially wrong about who I thought Alien was, I’m way more certain now (like 99%) and two, I felt so freaking bad that they did this Day 1. I just threw this out there to try and put some distance between us because I didn’t want them to be linked to me all game because I’m a dumbass and I’ll ruin their game. For the record we aren’t linked, if you flip us it’ll be proven.

What do you mean by this, specifically? Why doesn't it simply say "if you flip me"?

I knew about jman because I read the entirety of Fate/Mafia before this, also I’m active in the NBA Era thread. Fuck the Clippers

You're not so bad in my book. I'm not active in the thread but I enjoy reading it lol Fuck the Clippers indeed.

 

[San Franpsycho]

I had to re-read this part a few times to understand what leaving space in my reads means, but I think I understand. I wasn’t firm enough in my reads. I left them open to interpretation, which could be seen as a scum behaviour because you can fill them in later either way and go “see I said it like this!”. I didn’t intend to write my reads like this, they were just bad reads by an inexperienced player. I like to think I’ve gotten a teensy bit better over the course of the game but maybe I’m still shit at reads in a different way.

There's no reason to leave things open to interpretation in general, but yes, the problem is that you can go either way from most of those reads. At that point, there's not much reason for the reads in general... but it makes it really stick out when you read the same thing differently for ??? reasons we don't know.

Going from one inactive poster to another was a dumb move yeah. I forget when it was, but at some point this game San you said “why are you thinking in chains” and I didn’t realize what you meant right away but after thinking about it for a bit, it was like a eureka moment. I realized that I was consistently doing this and going “oh if they flip like this then I’ll vote so-and-so next” which is just terrible logic. You need to draw in all points of possible information before making your decision instead of just pre-supposing like that. So, credit to you for making me a better mafia player lol.

I'm not gonna derail the game here but I have a lot to say about this in terms of broader play thoughts BUT THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO SOAPBOX, IGNORE THE CAPS, I AM YELLING AT MYSELF HERE

I knew about jman because I read the entirety of Fate/Mafia before this, also I’m active in the NBA Era thread. Fuck the Clippers

This one I can buy. Allllll the various behaviors and thoughts around Wax and some of the others still leave me scratching my head, though.

This is definitely new player shit. I don't have anything else to defend myself for this point.

But this is really the meat of it. One thing I would like from you if there's time here is some deeper thoughts on Skunkbeard because, friend, your progression is kinda trash (to be blunt).

I need to learn what fishing specifically is because I keep doing it by accident. Is it just anything involving asking about roles? Lightning told his role, I wanted to learn how it worked. He straight up said anyone can ask if they have questions. I want to know for going forward so I can avoid doing this in the future.

In this case, fishing refers to you asking for information that you do not need, that does not help solve, but would help mafia.

I stand by that I was on Woodsman, you quoted all the relevant posts. In hindsight I should’ve been way stronger on them because I scumread them hard, but I was scared of being wrong so I didn’t show it enough. I understand now that it looked bad to not jump on the Gnome vote, but you have to admit that me jumping on another scum instead makes it look better right? Or actually maybe not because it turned out Woodsman was the goon and Gnome had a more powerful role. The situation with Gnome and Woodsman was me thinking they are both scum and we could get two wagons going for more information with Gnome ultimately being voted out, but I didn't know that nobody would bother with a second wagon after a "confirmed" red check. I won't make that mistake again.

Okay. Let's talk about this, too. You grant then that this was the bulk of your presence on Woodsman?

 

[BooBeard]

What do you mean by this, specifically? Why doesn't it simply say "if you flip me"?

It doesn't say "flip me" because I don't know Alien's alignment, I just know based off mine that we can't be linked. "Both being town" is not being linked in case you think this was a slip. I'm assuming Alien will be flipped before me.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Maybe I'm a sucker but Boo's "aww shucks I'm just new" foot scuffling over there has me about 75% convinced, pending some discussion re: Skunkbeard and Woodsman.

 

[San Franpsycho]

By default Skunkbeard looks worse to me today, but that really may just be that I didn't get a chance to go back and look because deadass everyone looks better on the reread. Or at least I was able to find reasons to make me doubt their scumminess and I just want to put my face on the desk.

 

[San Franpsycho]

it's cool, I'll just talk to myself

 

[BooBeard]

There's no reason to leave things open to interpretation in general, but yes, the problem is that you can go either way from most of those reads. At that point, there's not much reason for the reads in general... but it makes it really stick out when you read the same thing differently for ??? reasons we don't know.


I'm not gonna derail the game here but I have a lot to say about this in terms of broader play thoughts BUT THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO SOAPBOX, IGNORE THE CAPS, I AM YELLING AT MYSELF HERE

This one I can buy. Allllll the various behaviors and thoughts around Wax and some of the others still leave me scratching my head, though.

But this is really the meat of it. One thing I would like from you if there's time here is some deeper thoughts on Skunkbeard because, friend, your progression is kinda trash (to be blunt).

In this case, fishing refers to you asking for information that you do not need, that does not help solve, but would help mafia.

Okay. Let's talk about this, too. You grant then that this was the bulk of your presence on Woodsman?

Thanks for the clarity on fishing.

For Skunkbeard, I am starting to feel weird about the tunnel on Alien. It's getting a bit excessive today. I feel like there's not a lot to grasp from Skunkbeard and I'm having trouble reading them. There's a lot of one-two sentence posts and not as many larger posts, with some of the larger posts today focusing again on Alien. Like I said before, nothing sticks out really badly for Skunkbeard, but nothing sticking out could itself be an issue. I am starting to get this nagging feeling, what if Neon and Skunkbeard are scummates and they're playing both sides of the Alien wagon so that no matter if Alien flips town or arsonist (once again I don't believe they're scum) one of them will look good and can continue surviving. I'm not holding strong to this theory right yet, I want to reevaluate. Sticking with town-lean for now but I can see them dropping. I agree that they look a little worse after today. That's where I'm at with Skunkbeard.

For Woodsman, yeah I admit that was the bulk of my presence on them. It probably doesn't look amazing for me but I'm not claiming otherwise.

 

[Neon Phantom]

Maybe I'm a sucker but Boo's "aww shucks I'm just new" foot scuffling over there has me about 75% convinced, pending some discussion re: Skunkbeard and Woodsman.

I see where you're coming from, I found myself nodding along and sorta understand where he's coming from, but I'm stubborn enough to tell myself that new scum and new neutrals make weird newbie mistakes in presentation as well.
Honestly if he hadn't revealed he was new I'd never have guessed, he's played one hell of a game.

By default Skunkbeard looks worse to me today, but that really may just be that I didn't get a chance to go back and look because deadass everyone looks better on the reread. Or at least I was able to find reasons to make me doubt their scumminess and I just want to put my face on the desk.

That's a floor :(

 

[Alien]

I eagerly await my impending death

 

[San Franpsycho]

For Woodsman, yeah I admit that was the bulk of my presence on them. It probably doesn't look amazing for me but I'm not claiming otherwise.

but... you did. You explicitly said you were on Woodsman before others.

 

[Alien]

Anyway, 8 left - me and I'm guessing Wax probably as the night kill leaves it at 6. YOU CAN'T FUCK UP. Fail to hit scum and we lose. Sans, Pazzo or Skunk. It's two of those 3.

 

[Neon Phantom]

It would probably make some people's heads explode to throw out the day and do so, but I wouldn't be opposed to voting for Skunkbeard.

Just saying.

I am starting to get this nagging feeling, what if Neon and Skunkbeard are scummates and they're playing both sides of the Alien wagon so that no matter if Alien flips town or arsonist (once again I don't believe they're scum) one of them will look good and can continue surviving. I'm not holding strong to this theory right yet, I want to reevaluate. Sticking with town-lean for now but I can see them dropping. I agree that they look a little worse after today. That's where I'm at with Skunkbeard.

I still don't actually see how me or Skunk would come out of Alien dying looking particularly good either way.

 

[Alien]

Arsonist could be Boo sure. But you NEED to hit scum

 

[San Franpsycho]

I see where you're coming from, I found myself nodding along and sorta understand where he's coming from, but I'm stubborn enough to tell myself that new scum and new neutrals make weird newbie mistakes in presentation as well.
Honestly if he hadn't revealed he was new I'd never have guessed, he's played one hell of a game.

^^^this is some truth all around

You make a really good point. I just... man, I dunno. The Woodsman thing is the only place where i'm really squinting.

That's a floor :(

IT'S STILL A PANDEMIC, GIFS ARE IN LIMITED SUPPLY OKAY

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

It doesn't say "flip me" because I don't know Alien's alignment, I just know based off mine that we can't be linked. "Both being town" is not being linked in case you think this was a slip. I'm assuming Alien will be flipped before me.

Okay, the assumption piece is what was missing. I read it as needing both flipped to know there was no connection which wouldn't make sense because you shouldn't know his alignment. Got it.

Maybe I'm a sucker but Boo's "aww shucks I'm just new" foot scuffling over there has me about 75% convinced, pending some discussion re: Skunkbeard and Woodsman.

What do you think of the D1 wagons in hindsight and the voters there?

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

Day ends in like six minutes right? Quiet day end, but I guess the game is getting fairly small and some indicated not being around at day end (and others never indicate anything a la Wax).

 

[BooBeard]

Sorry a meeting popped up right at the last minute at work

 

[San Franpsycho]

What do you think of the D1 wagons in hindsight and the voters there?

I mean, it's pure as fuck unless you are exactly scum here. But a bunch of town people voting for someone who openly lied d1 means absolutely zero to me now just like it meant zero to me then. People vote turmoil out d1 all the time for just fucking existing. I've seen many a pure and dumb d1 wagon. And that wagon was dumb. I don't care how towny it was. Even if Boo IS scum that wagon was STILL dumb. This is the one hill I will die on in this game.

inb4 Boo is scum and I die for this post and this post only

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Shit

I feel asleep and just woke up.

What's the vote. No way I can read all the post.

 

[San Franpsycho]

I mean there are several people on that wagon who did jack with a side of shit. Why do I care what dumb things they thought on d1?

 

[San Franpsycho]

Shit

I feel asleep and just woke up.

What's the vote. No way I can read all the post.

it's the same, it'll either be a slight edge for Alien or you'll tie it

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

I mean, it's pure as fuck unless you are exactly scum here. But a bunch of town people voting for someone who openly lied d1 means absolutely zero to me now just like it meant zero to me then. People vote turmoil out d1 all the time for just fucking existing. I've seen many a pure and dumb d1 wagon. And that wagon was dumb. I don't care how towny it was. Even if Boo IS scum that wagon was STILL dumb. This is the one hill I will die on in this game.

inb4 Boo is scum and I die for this post and this post only

It's not just that the Boo wagon is pure, it's that there almost certainly HAS to have been a stack on Anthos. It's both sides that raise the eyebrow. There aren't enough spots available for it to NOT have a scum stack on Anthos, at which point - why?

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Someone tell me who to Bote I just woke up. Hurry!

 

[San Franpsycho]

we have tossed around and rejected a last minute switch to skunkbeard because we are all nice and probably idiots

 

[BooBeard]

but... you did. You explicitly said you were on Woodsman before others.

I was on Woodsman earlier than others. They didn't get voted out the day I voted for them.

 

[Alien]

Erm, consider giving your power to nobody Lightning. That totally negates the risk of giving to scum.

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Is

it's the same, it'll either be a slight edge for Alien or you'll tie it

Tie with who?

Quick details go

 

[San Franpsycho]

It's not just that the Boo wagon is pure, it's that there almost certainly HAS to have been a stack on Anthos. It's both sides that raise the eyebrow. There aren't enough spots available for it to NOT have a scum stack on Anthos, at which point - why?

why are you arguing that you are scum to me

 

[Neon Phantom]

Shit

I feel asleep and just woke up.

What's the vote. No way I can read all the post.

Alien 3, BooBeard 2, Me 1

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

AND the NKs have avoided flipping many from said Anthos wagon. It's suspect.

 

[San Franpsycho]

Is

Tie with who?

Quick details go

BOO, SAME AS BEFORE, VOTES HAVE NOT MOVED

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

why are you arguing that you are scum to me

You are not this dense lol

 

[Lightning Strikes]

BOO, SAME AS BEFORE, VOTES HAVE NOT MOVED

Do I do nothing?

 

[San Franpsycho]

i am at two minutes to eod. we are here tomorrow we can litigate it then

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

VOTE: Alien

No ties

 

[San Franpsycho]

I guess I'm just letting mine ride on Alien. This day, man.

 

[Alien]

Vote:BooBeard

 

[Lightning Strikes]

I'm so sorry town I just woke up 5 minutes ago. I have no idea what's going on.

 

[Alien]

Dang

 

[BooBeard]

Vote: Alien

 

[Pazzo the Ghost Clown]

Dang

Fucking lol

 

[Lightning Strikes]

Vote:alien

 

[Alien]

 

[Alien]

Bye

 

[Aeleus]

Day 7 Ends

 

[Aeleus]

[He/Him] Alien - UTC		(6 votes)
[She/Her] San Franpsycho|Sans - UTC
[He/Him] Captain Skunkbeard|Captain - UTC
[He/Him] Wax Phantom - UTC
[He/Him] Pazzo the Ghost Clown|Pazzo - UTC
[He/Him] BooBeard - UTC
[He/Him] Lightning Strikes|Lightning - UTC
[He/Him] BooBeard - UTC		(2 votes)
[He/Him] Pazzo the Ghost Clown|Pazzo - UTC
[He/Him] Neon Phantom|Neon - UTC
[He/Him] Alien - UTC
[He/Him] Neon Phantom|Neon - UTC		(0 votes)
[He/Him] BooBeard - UTC
[He/Him] Captain Skunkbeard|Captain - UTC		(0 votes)
[He/Him] Lightning Strikes|Lightning - UTC

 

[Aeleus]

Alien has died!

You are the Alien: your true identity is Tessie, aligned with The Bad Guys (TOWN)

The party invite said smart casual so you brought your finest monster costume and nothing else, you are Vanilla Town

You have no special power or ability but can still vote!

You win when all threats to town are eliminated.

Night 7 Ends in:

Night actions are due 2 hours before the start of the next Day.