Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
OMG is it really going to flip at the 83+hr?
Nightless Spec Chat
- Thread starter Natiko
- Start date
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Scum wins?…
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Sawneeks wasn’t Scum? Who would have known?!?
me
Sawneeks
little green dog
i've accepted my new meta is to be scumread early game for hard-to-clarify reasons
what is it
Sawneeks
little green dog
i've been spoiled on scum so i won't mention it here but im mostly disappointed in myself for not listening to my gut and for town. what the heck, town. hope ya'll are ready for a realllyyy quiet thread.
if we flipped alex today i would have headed straight for a scum player. im just kicking myself over here. ;;
if we flipped alex today i would have headed straight for a scum player. im just kicking myself over here. ;;
The difference between who wants to solve and who doesn’t.i've accepted my new meta is to be scumread early game for hard-to-clarify reasons
what is it
Sawneeks
little green dog
i try doing that. it's just tough when half the time town doesn't look like they're solving either :(
we can take nin here. he didn't look like we has trying to solve fireblend and just went there 'because'. i dont know what to do in that kinda situation.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
Chuggs showing up after being a non-entity for several IRL days, saying “let’s stop fucking around”, and Donnie immediately going for that. RIP town
Like malus is town there. He came in ready to work. Febe was sketch at times but malus towntold in a big way. Sneeks, you were kinda weird but clearly focused on solving and trying to get people going. Donnie is mega town. melon, too, though she’s dropped off a lot and I might have her in my scum pool if I was in game. Hard to say. Alexem I read as oddly defensive but I think it’s just that he doesn’t play much. Otherwise he reads town to me.
I know. nin pinged the hell out of me too - it was terrible town play. And that’s why I came in yelling that he needed to be wagoned. But there were some great takes on town perspective on him that I think were right.
This this this this this
Sawneeks
little green dog
i'll admit the malus scumread was big OMGUS energy from me waking up to find out i almost died.
Donnie is town af though. how anyone can scumread him right now is crazy. he's just so honest in trying to figure shit out.
Sawneeks
little green dog
Fair enough. He was just an example as to what a majority of town are doing and it's hard to fight through that and find scum who are blending in as town better than actual town.
im just salty and a bit frustrated. this is a really fun experiment for a game and i think it works out well to get people to hammer but it can be an absolute nightmare to work in. half the time i felt like i was yelling to the void and no one was interested. Donnie finally came in recently and is doing great and I really wish that was around sooner. I was getting really burnt out running through multiple theories just for people to run in and give reads that contradicted someone else's and to never discuss it. it felt like we kept all talking past eachother.
You’re right. I really hope this makes people lean into town telling. Finding town is easier than finding scum but town has to also participate.
Sawneeks
little green dog
which is what's making this so hard. if town was being town then the weaker towntells would've fallen under scrutiny WAY sooner. we probably could've saved Sparks/nin spot too and had a better shot.
Sawneeks
little green dog
big spoilers
our community is SO anti-bus that a pure bus strategy from scum was never on the table to believe. why should we? it doesn't happen. so when scum hard busses zipped D1 we just have to take that as townie actions and take them out of the suspect pool for ease since everyone else was being way more suspect. but if we kept going and the people outside of that pool also looked super townie? we would HAVE to go back and reevaluate them.
hell, i was starting to do that myself. I kept saying that if alex wasn't scum then there had to be a busser on Zipped. Donnie was too townie to be scum and Fire/malus wasn't the last scum player so it HAD to be melon/chuggs/HP. And once you open up that floodgate of 'scum bussed' then all 3 of those people become candidates because they don't have any other towntell to them. the only thing saving them was the zipped vote and if they don't have that? they're scum read easily.
it's why i have some faith in town if they stop and think. alexem/malus should know by now that scum bussed zipped since they are on the hedin vote and know their alignment. Donnie is new but he's doing a great job at solving, he just needs to be pointed in the right direction. I'm hoping he can stop and rethink things once another townie flips. dunno what melon is doing or what will happen there.
hell, i was starting to do that myself. I kept saying that if alex wasn't scum then there had to be a busser on Zipped. Donnie was too townie to be scum and Fire/malus wasn't the last scum player so it HAD to be melon/chuggs/HP. And once you open up that floodgate of 'scum bussed' then all 3 of those people become candidates because they don't have any other towntell to them. the only thing saving them was the zipped vote and if they don't have that? they're scum read easily.
it's why i have some faith in town if they stop and think. alexem/malus should know by now that scum bussed zipped since they are on the hedin vote and know their alignment. Donnie is new but he's doing a great job at solving, he just needs to be pointed in the right direction. I'm hoping he can stop and rethink things once another townie flips. dunno what melon is doing or what will happen there.
Sawneeks
little green dog
speaking of, what am i doing that so damn sketchy to people? was it just my D1?
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
HPSauce said:
we’re pretty close to just open wolfing hereHPSauce said:
Faddy
of, having, or involving transitory whims
kinda. Just thinking in the contextof the big spoilers....
I think the way zipped dies always says mafia bussed. There was a chance to hammer someone else and it didn't happen. I thought your reaction to the zipped death was little strange. Why weren't you more pumped? I would have been pumped to be the big switch onto scum. You were talknig about taking the L when you just got a huge W.
it felt kiind of manipulative to me. Like you wanted people to see your negative reaction and then say you are cleared. It felt off.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
I feel like it’s almost an awful thing to say, but when I read your posts, they come off as too friendly and overly familiar. My impression was like you were trying to oversell your reactions almost, which I think is awful for me to say because 1) you’re just genuinely like that and that’s great, and 2) I can be the same way, which might be why people scum read me when I’m genuinely trying to town. :(
Fanto
Confirmed Town
This is a general issue that happens a lot in the community imo. It feels like sometimes people will get off on their own islands, where their personal read lists are their reality, and who they choose to vote for is their final vote. This leads to things like 8 people with one vote each on them 6 hours before EoD. Or in this game, it's led to an 80+ hour day that didn't really need to be that long.
Yep. We are not great at actually talking stuff out - see this game’s majority rule lol
Sawneeks
little green dog
This was because I wasn't interested in voting for zipped and instead wanted Hedin. The only reason I voted zipped was because I wanted the day to end and no one seemed to want to move lol. So I viewed it as a loss because I was way off and thought Zipped was town. Yeah it was great we got him and killed scum day 1 but it didn't feel like much of a victory after the stalemate.
Good to know though.
Someone else said something similar in a different game but I don't know how to change that? I can't just...not be nice, I guess. I mean I could try being an ass but I don't think that would solve the issue here. Or to just stop trying too hard but i don't feel like i'm doing that to begin with so. RIP me
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Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Did the game break?
I really did miss the possibility of hammering Hedin. If I had known it I would have done it.
I really did miss the possibility of hammering Hedin. If I had known it I would have done it.
I don't agree with Launch's attitudinal assessment lol but if you want I can point out some things that I found scummy-seeming. I do think ultimately here it was just that you were talking a lot and that makes a target in a game when nothing is happening. No one has anywhere to go so they end up suspecting the loudest person, but in a game like that, it's usually NOT the loudest person that's the issue (unless it's someone like me who is incapable of being quiet usually). There's just no reason at all to be the loudest person and certainly no reason to keep engaging people and asking them to talk.
Anyway, I have a lot to add to the above but I didn't want to do it on mobile earlier. I do think this game and situation is very fascinating to study.
Anyway, I have a lot to add to the above but I didn't want to do it on mobile earlier. I do think this game and situation is very fascinating to study.
AND THIS IS THE THING RIGHT HERE. RIGHT HERE. No one else moved and you weren't there so it really super begs the question of where they were. Clearly now not on Hedin... so they HAD TO BE BUSSING. It's SO not malus. They purposely took the shot to kill Sneeks today so they could do Alexem next because it will be hard to target malus, whereas Alexem will be easier. Sneeks dying today only serves scum, period - and that's a lesson town needs to learn (I am bad about this myself, but as town, we need to learn it. Keep the people pushing the game unless you have to kill them.)
I haven't seen the thread but I wouldn't be surprised now if Chuggs takes control of the thread. I don't think HP will but Chuggs can and they won't bat an eye.
I want to hate the strategy - the immediate kill, the shitty leap to immediate partner bus that I hate so much, the Hedin kill, which was just silly, frankly, the complete refusal to engage in the game - but it's clearly worked, however underhanded it feels. Hate the game and leave the player, I guess, but I'm side-eyeing y'all hard later for that instant ATP kill.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
But at the same time, There was a recent streak of scum wins where the “Mist” was real.
scum taking up the mantle of the loudest voice to swing quieter townies to voting out the other loud voices (which were town).
The Biggest one is Transistor GOTY mafia
scum taking up the mantle of the loudest voice to swing quieter townies to voting out the other loud voices (which were town).
The Biggest one is Transistor GOTY mafia
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
The ATP kill makes a LOT of sense when you look outside the game. ATP just ran a game with me, even just looking at the game with me considered leaving him in was a huge risk.
take in to account the spoilers? It’s all laid out in scum chat
Yes. It does happen. Believe me - I know and it's half my scum strategy. There's a way to fix it, though, and keep it from controlling a game.
But it was also definitely not happening here. There were no active signs Sneeks was scum. It's just a tired and demoralized town without a core - just people who know their reads are going off the rails but they can't quite figure out why. It's a bad feeling. It leads to moments like that where scum can easily capitalize. I know that one, too.
Oh, it's a great play. It's probably THE optimal play in this scenario (Hedin was not lol), though I think the choice of ATP should have been a clue more explored by town here. But it's just mean. After we killed Yuta in GoT and I saw that he was legit upset about it, my perspective on instakills kinda changed, and I was pretty pissed to be shot early myself. It's just a shitty move, person to person, to take someone out before they get a chance to even play.
I'm not saying I'd never do it now. Under the right conditions, I'd do all kinds of shit to win - that's the game. But I'm still not a fan. This is why I really don't like being mafia - sometimes the shittiest plays are the best and then you have to make a hard choice.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Sawneeks
little green dog
Hey, I'm all for hearing em. Would rather improve my town game any way I can so the next game goes better.
Yeah so if chuggs and hp are scum I was able to finger 2 scum members without even making a single post in the game. The immediate dismissal of my kill meaning nothing and no point reading into it was so annoying. Who was the one of the biggest voices on that front? Chuggs I recall.
Shooting someone straight away like that is kind of shitty imo and honestly its why I've not signed up to dad joke mafia. I'm still pretty salty about it.
But I also think there is innately something more personal about it, zipped has given his reasons, if it is also chuggs and hp, I'm always on chuggs case and we're coming off a star trek game where I correctly called out hp as scum on day 1, but you're right town, just write it off as random and don't look into it at all.
Shooting someone straight away like that is kind of shitty imo and honestly its why I've not signed up to dad joke mafia. I'm still pretty salty about it.
But I also think there is innately something more personal about it, zipped has given his reasons, if it is also chuggs and hp, I'm always on chuggs case and we're coming off a star trek game where I correctly called out hp as scum on day 1, but you're right town, just write it off as random and don't look into it at all.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
@AllThingsPurple i am sorry, we knew we would be making you very angry in doing it. It really was a shitty thing to do.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
I don’t think being an ass is a good approach, either. I’m not sure what to say, honestly. I think being nice is good! I can’t really explain why that attitude gets that reaction
Obviously this is just imo. I’m recalling Sneeks and I butted heads on D1 recently when we were both town, and I don’t think I could point to a single solid scummy thing she actually did right now. It was just a vibe I was totally misreading. And here I am again, scum reading Sneeks for the same vibe.
Before you say it, yes I need to get better at reading people lol
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
I am surprised that malus has not brought Chuggs up at all here. When you were shot, I immediately thought of Scooby Doo 2 where you died N1 because they thought you wouldn’t fall in line, and Chuggs and malus were both on that scum team. The one person who could make that connection right now isn’t making it :(
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Yeah, there are two things I would’ve changed from the mini setup if I could’ve - build in some twilight phases with all chats shut down to help reduce fatigue and at least make scum wait 24 hours before being able to do their first shot. Wasn’t sure how much I could get away with altering the mini’s pre-established rules though since we never do that.
Lol it’s fine! It’s actually better if we don’t agree so Sneeks can see different perspectives. One of the most interesting (and difficult) things about this game is how the same behavior can be read a billion ways.
One thing we could maybe do is make a thread here on open setup games and discussed potential changes - and then just build some of our own from there if need be. I think that would be fun. Crowdsource, make some final decisions, and have our own set of open games.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
malus :(
Although next up is whambo. Maybe he can make something happen here.
Although next up is whambo. Maybe he can make something happen here.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
About that…malus :(
Although next up is whambo. Maybe he can make something happen here.
He’s spoiled on it because I didn’t think we would need two more replacements. It’s actually Stan next (and he’s our last one so let’s all collectively cross our fingers no one else drops).
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
well
GO STAAAAAAAAAN
GO STAAAAAAAAAN
sonofabitch
he'd have definitely gone after Chuggs probably maybe!
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
He would have. He really wanted to know if Chuggs was scum lol The bad news is he went through just about the entire roster trying to guess the second one.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
To HP's immense credit, he's been doing a great job of acting totally burned out by this game. In fairness, there's probably a lot of truth to him feeling that way regardless of his alignment, but he's using it to his advantage really well.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
Where have I heard that story before? Lol
Fanto
Confirmed Town
Did I accidentally open the Star Trek Spec Chat?
excuse you Stan design-pocketed himself, I don’t claim that one!
came into post the same thing lol
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
even more since scum chat had anyone in there.
Fanto
Confirmed Town
They can only high five each other and say "job well done" so many times.
Yep. And I don’t understand why they are not SCREAMING at Chuggs, who is NEVER like this.
The problem is who is there to scream at him? Donnie is new so he's not familiar enough. I don't know melon's history but she's at least been away from playing for awhile. Stan could but he just replaced in and not engaging much yet. Alex might, I haven't played with him enough to know on that front. Basically though everyone who could come to a realization on what is going on is out of the game.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
RIP Saw
yep. :( that's the problem. stan, I hope, will notice.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
If I were alive, I would recommend our deepest wolf bus the hell out of the not-as-deep wolf.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
question…
If more than 50% of the remaining players wish to stop would we allow it?
I feel like we are torturing the remaining players, but then again they could always vote or puzzle the game out
If more than 50% of the remaining players wish to stop would we allow it?
I feel like we are torturing the remaining players, but then again they could always vote or puzzle the game out
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
Problem is I don’t know if Donnie or melon would realize soon enough they can’t put a vote down in ELo without being certain theyve got scum. Stan may not be around when D5 ends to remind them that with 2 scum left, scum can just hammer a misvote. If Donnie votes melon as he’s been threatening to do, it’s over. :(
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
If I were Chuggs, I would wait until Stan goes to sleep to drop the hammer
That would be tempting but Stan should be calling it a night here soon so it's close enough.
Over/under 36hrs for this next phase?
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
well, dropping the hammer when the gamerunners aren't around to call the day phase is close enough!
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
Welcome, Alex. Sorry, we all know you were putting real effort into the game. I thought that post you made earlier in the week made tons of good points, even if the vote wasn't in the right place. You played very well!
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
If more than 50% of the players want the game to end there’s this revolutionary idea called “voting together”.
Alexem
Yeah, I'm town
I knew HP had to be one of them by the end. I just couldn't push for him because there was zero interest from anyone else in going for him and there was no way that I could think of to signal that without tipping him off. He'd struck me as the typical 'hide in the background throughout' scum, but I couldn't think of a decent angle to push that with and get listened to. Also, I was pretty demoralised last week - a couple of rough votes early on and it didn't really matter what I said any more. That said, I'm glad that I was right about Sneeks in the end. I'd have kicked myself if I'd gone to her defence and found out she was scum!Sawneeks after all.
If a game like this ever runs again, though, it really, really needs an arbitrary time limit for the day phases.
If a game like this ever runs again, though, it really, really needs an arbitrary time limit for the day phases.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
This is actually a great move, take a step back, reassess, and its always better to Mafia on a full stomach.
Alexem
Yeah, I'm town
Absolutely. Hopefully the town players remember that they're now in hit-or-lose - one false vote and scum can finish things.
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
HP and Chuggs so obviously just standing around, waiting for something to happen
LaunchpadMcQ
...can I smell you?
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
It is INCREDIBLY FRUSTRATING when it feels like no one is listening to you. I'm so sorry you had to deal with that. It can make even a regular game feel like such a chore.