Beluga Whale
Costume
I'm going to have to disagree there. I'm not feeling it.
Game Thread Love Boat: The Spin-off |OT| We Bare Boats
- Thread starter The Bear
- Start date
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
Yacht (1 votes)
Kayak - #1,277
Gondola (1 votes)
Yacht - #1,376
Not voting: Inflatable Boat, Submarine, Beluga Whale, Lifeboat, Gondola
Post Counts:
Submarine: 38 Beluga Whale: 24 Inflatable Boat: 20 Yacht: 18 Gondola: 13 Lifeboat: 11 Kayak: 9
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
Yacht (1 votes)
Kayak - #1,277
Gondola (1 votes)
Yacht - #1,376
Not voting: Inflatable Boat, Submarine, Beluga Whale, Lifeboat, Gondola
Post Counts:
Submarine: 38 Beluga Whale: 24 Inflatable Boat: 20 Yacht: 18 Gondola: 13 Lifeboat: 11 Kayak: 9
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Yacht
Costume
Fair, so assuming 2 scum you think it's Kayak and?
Beluga Whale
Costume
And I would need to assess that after the flip or at least not chain vote. If we get scum we would get +1 day until mylo so we can be wrong in that case. If Kayak is town then we would need to switch up how we're going about scumhunting as there would be a deepwolf.
Submarine
Costume
Why Gondola over Kayak even after Beluga reminded you about the green check (which that logic still didn't make sense) when you have Kayak in both of your scenarios? Why do you think Kayak is paired with either of Gondola or Beluga?
Kayak
Costume
I don’t think anyone was asking you to chain vote. I’m not sure what would prevent you from weighing in on both options in advance.
Submarine
Costume
This was before you claimed but after you got results but I am curious what you were thinking about here. To me Lifeboat was the single scummiest player through the first two days when I was catching up. I mean they were so scummy both you and the cop checked them on D2 (I agree with what Kayak said at one point that it was so obvious that it almost felt like bait) so obviously you were suspicious. So what changed to make LB "a slot that comes off well during iso"?
Lifeboat
Costume
i think Submarine is town here. The day 1 votes make no sense if submarine is mafia.
unless people think houseboat went out their way to try and undercut their team mate who was gathering a whole bunch of town reads early. Nah makes no sense.
And submarine has been trying to solve and providing logic for all their actions. But i though it was worth changing the focus at the start of the day to try and shake some more reads out.
For one thing Inflatible is NOT off the table.
Why isn't this a bus vote? Like they call out houseboat seeing that they are caught in the slip but they also throw out multiple names as potential alternatives.
unless people think houseboat went out their way to try and undercut their team mate who was gathering a whole bunch of town reads early. Nah makes no sense.
And submarine has been trying to solve and providing logic for all their actions. But i though it was worth changing the focus at the start of the day to try and shake some more reads out.
For one thing Inflatible is NOT off the table.
Why isn't this a bus vote? Like they call out houseboat seeing that they are caught in the slip but they also throw out multiple names as potential alternatives.
Lifeboat
Costume
Why aren't you with inflatible?
Beluga Whale
Costume
On who you could be teamed with? I don't know, I could scratch in and cross out posts and reads but I would rather not atm because I can only take 3-4 min at a time at work and I want to be sure of the flip first.
On who else could be scum, I've talked about that.
Submarine
Costume
There is no way Beluga and Kayak are teamed. Just no way. Beluga and HB tied up Kayak with You on day one and Beluga was going hard on Kayak as it is.
Kayak
Costume
@Yacht Why are you currently going "Kayak has to be scum" today?
You felt our interactions with HB made us look better and didnt think we were teamed last day phase. Skiff flipping town doesnt really change that stance. Why arent you entertaining a world where we arent scum and there are two scummies in other places?
Also, what are you thoughts on Sub for today? I noticed you really havent mentioned that slot. The last thing I found as far as a read was giving them a pass because HB called out ppl townreading them day 1 and this post which is more mechanics than a read.
You felt our interactions with HB made us look better and didnt think we were teamed last day phase. Skiff flipping town doesnt really change that stance. Why arent you entertaining a world where we arent scum and there are two scummies in other places?
Also, what are you thoughts on Sub for today? I noticed you really havent mentioned that slot. The last thing I found as far as a read was giving them a pass because HB called out ppl townreading them day 1 and this post which is more mechanics than a read.
Gondola
Costume
My partner was talking about who the check came from, not who it was of. The green check came from Giant Rubber Duck. They were the slot we liked and thought came off well, not Life.
Duck claimed their role was speaking more for their certainty about the check too and we decided we believed them.
Yacht
Costume
This was the other guy, both of these posts. But there are only so many people that can be scum. Sub is town, Bear has used this same role on Love Boat 3 I believe, where Pooh was a celebrity/superstar, same exact thing, Bear just likes the role.
Kayak
Costume
It being the other person, still speaks to a townread coming from your slot on ours. So it still feels weird to now go into today with "kayak has to be scum"
Sub read - is that really all your read is? "Bear used the role before"? Role aside, what in this game are you townreading them for? Even before the claim you gave them a townread because you didnt think HB would call out sub like that day 1. But there doesnt seem to be a Sub read after that.
Submarine
Costume
I do find it interesting that Kayak puts a little GF shade on the green check and then tries to use that green check to put shade on our reads. When they were workin on a post they had the flip confirmed cop, the green check from the cop, and town us on them. Thats a lot of town at this point in the game.
Yacht
Costume
I'm allowed to have different opinions with the other person I share the account with no? How is that weird?
Yeah that's all my read is on Sub, since Bear has used this before in the same exact way then I have no reason to believe it's a scum role, so there's not really a "role aside", to me it's like asking why I think an innocent child is town, which I find weird as a question.
Kayak
Costume
That’s such a strange question to ask of us and not Sub or Beluga whom both seem hesitant to weigh in on what our flip will actually reveal and how that will impact the game state. I’m not the one saying we’re mafia and refusing to elaborate beyond a surface level read.
What will being “sure of the flip” give you? You must have SOME idea what each possible outcome would indicate about the game state and your existing reads. Even if it takes you doing so in 3-4 minute chunks.
Bear has town and non-town trackers in previous Love Boats. Bear has had town and non-town roles to mute chats in previous Love Boats. I’m glad our strategy this far in is “try and meta predict what the game runner would do” versus actually using anything grounded in this actual game.
Kayak
Costume
I didnt say yall having different opinions is weird. I said your slot going from town reading us to now saying we have to be scum today either with Gon or Bel, is weird.
Innocent child is mod confirmed town, so no it's not the same as a superstar.
Submarine
Costume
I have said at many times at this point that your flip will help solve Beluga because I do not believe you two are teamed so you flipping scum would mean they are most likely town. It would also at this point help me feel better about Yacht.
I honestly don’t know what you expect from us. Mafia is a game where people reread and reread and try and find scum and vote for who they find the scummiest and that is what I have been doing since I did those isos and felt you were my biggest scum lead.
Also you haven’t exactly said what my flip would even do for the game so why don’t you tell us? How will my flip solve the game?
Kayak
Costume
So you feel that Beluga and us are not teamed. You feel Beluga could likely be paired with Yacht, but you have no idea who would be paired with us. Please explain to me like I’m five how then it can be that you would learn the most from our flip versus someone else’s.
As for you, well it’s useful to clarify that we aren’t voting you so that’s not even that pertinent, but for the sake of answering the question you don’t want to - if you were to be flipped it would let us know that if you’re scum then that would further implicate Yacht as you ran interference all of D1 and most of D2 for HB and also were on the counter wagon to Yacht D1. If you are town, then I think we’d really have to dive into the wagon on us yesterday. With a smaller game it’s more of a toss up, but there would be no real incentive for scum to pile on one target for a TvT vote which would probably fuel some personal paranoia then to examine the other options.
I also want to point out that the reasoning behind this questioning has been that your group stated we would best help you solve this game. You did that, all while refusing to even once justify or expand on it. We aren’t the ones making empty proclamations that we refuse to expand on.
Submarine
Costume
Oh so you mean
Kayak
(4 votes)
Giant Rubber Duck - #1,124
Submarine - #1,126
Lifeboat - #1,152
Inflatable Boat - #1,242
THE TOWN COP
Us who will have flipped town
THE TOWN COP'S GREEN CHECK
and The MOST TOWN READ Player in the game?
That's is seriously where you'd luck if we flip town. Seriously?
I don't need to explain myself. I have explained myself plenty but apparently no one ever bothers reading my posts and I'm tried of it.
Bullshit. The reason I didn't come into the thread and vote you today is because I wanted to reflect and really make sure I get scum. My partner has been playing catch up because they need to, but also because I want to hear their opinion because they are the only person I know I can for sure without question trust, and hey they don't agree with me on everything so It really is helping me reflect on my own suspicions and if I'm write or not.
The thing about mafia is outside of a few cases usually done mechanically, you can't for sure know you are right about someone and most of this bullshit is just based on gut reads anyways. Every single fucking mafia game I have played, I have had my doubts about the scum read I voting for or pushing even when like 99% believed they were scum. Same thing with townreading outside of again those hard confirms like a PM telling me so in a non bastard game so doubt is what makes the game so hard, and that's why I want to know if I'm in a fucking tunnel and we've been town bickering for the past two days, or if I'm write and I feel like I'm going crazy because some people don't see it.
Either case I'm trying to reflect and keep going but it's hard okay. I have tunneled on town as town before, I have been the only person right about someone scum before, and part of my doubt is because I have strong suspicions on who you might be and my meta is influencing me a bit evem if I'm trying to not let it do that because the point of costume games is to play without meta.
I feel like at this point I have explained my reasoning for my reads like so many times now and I'm sorry if I'm not being clear enough. If we really are both town, then maybe we can put aside our differences here and actually work on it, but that's not going to happen if we keep fighting.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Yacht for clarity here what do you mean by the bolded?
If we voted for you would you do it?
Inflatable Boat
Costume
My partner and I are deep into a conversation about this. I got everything down to some teams I think might be the final 2 but my partner disagrees on the person that could be in all of them and I'm being swayed. There's too much out there that suggests bussing on some level with HB so we're trying to factor all of that in.
Really, it's trying to figure out who we think is scum and would also give the most insight into the game going forward if we're wrong. We're down to Beluga, Kayak, and Yacht as options.
Beluga Whale
Costume
Would I do what? Put aside my work and go read? No, I wouldn't. Unless you were asking something else.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Spitball with us who Kayak could be teamed with.
Submarine
Costume
I can see cases with the last two (this half of the sub is still trying to figure out exactly where I land on those) but can you give me your Beluga case?
Beluga Whale
Costume
I think you could be an option. Your vote yesterday could have been a bus and your dislike of the skiff vote could be a matter of prescience. You said that your preference was Kayak>Skiff>Sub out of PoE so your reaction at EoD was a bit much. At least I don't think Yacht is given how they've been with each other. The Yachts are up and down but Kayak has been consistent in seeing them as scummy. I know I'm town. Lifeboat is greenchecked. Gondola opens themselves up to a lot of scrutiny if Kayak ends up having a PR that can move, which I don't see them doing. Kayak's exasperation with Sub seems genuine as does Sub's irritation so I wouldn't say they were teamed.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
We'll share when our re-read is complete. I'm at work and have D2 and D3 to get through. I'm hoping my concerns on them vanish as the days go, but I'll share either way.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
My dislike of the Skiff vote was quite literally a dislike of Skiff self-voting. I was very unhappy, to put it lightly, at town voting themselves like that to the point where this and the above post are the first time I've returned to the game thread. So, for me personally, I don't fault any players not named Skiff who voted Skiff. (I mean, I do fault you, but that's because you might be scum)
Beluga Whale
Costume
Oh, but you didn't know Skiff was town at the time? Didn't you guys say they were in your PoE after talking in pair chat? Was it the self-vote that made you see them as town?
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Thanks for this. I'm gonna get started on my reread so I'll likely come back to this with questions for you.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Skiff was still in my PoE. I just thought Kayak was more likely as scum. I don't think my brain registered the self-vote until after it was all over (especially maybe since it started the party?) So by the time it was over.... to see that Skiff had helped vote themselves out...It's not how you want to see your day end. Makes your 48 hours of gameplay feel slightly wasted when town throws in the towel like that. Maybe there was strategy there that I'm missing, but I didn't take it well.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
I'm heading back to work. Will complete my re-read tonight.
Submarine
Costume
That self vote was so bad. They knew they were town and only thought Kayak was town, always bet on the sure thing.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Yep. But hey...it's a game. I gotta get over it. I've self-voted as town too, so everytime I get grumpy about it, I just remind myself I'm being a hypocrite and shake it off.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Okay. Stop distracting me. I have to do work stuff at work. It's very worky today.
Yacht
Costume
I'm around for a little bit f there's anything other boats wanted addressed.
My PoE is Beluga/Kayak/Gondola and of these I don't think it is a Beluga and Kayak team so Gondola is a common denominator for Gondola/Kayak and Gondola/Beluga. But from what I'm seeing a lot of people feel Gondola is town and so I didn't catch much discussion around those pairs and also do not have the time to do this day phase - I should next day phase. Is there anything obvious to eliminate one of these pairs I should consider when voting?
My PoE is Beluga/Kayak/Gondola and of these I don't think it is a Beluga and Kayak team so Gondola is a common denominator for Gondola/Kayak and Gondola/Beluga. But from what I'm seeing a lot of people feel Gondola is town and so I didn't catch much discussion around those pairs and also do not have the time to do this day phase - I should next day phase. Is there anything obvious to eliminate one of these pairs I should consider when voting?
Inflatable Boat
Costume
I quoted you yesterday in response to Gondola and don't believe I saw a reply. There wasn't a ton to respond to, but still would like to hear your thoughts if you get a moment.
Yacht
Costume
@Inflatable Boat is it this one or something else?
First part is that Gondola has better engagement after a replacement which is fair but kinda NAI for me.
In terms of liking the questioning and engagement, I think Beluga and Sub have achieved similar things so it's not enough to escape PoE on its own imo.
Your last past is about them taking a firm stance on the HB counterclaim day which is a little interesting as they commit to the vote early but don't actually place one on there. I could see the argument that if this bussing you would want the credit of having voted rather than saying you would.
Anyway I believe you town read Gondola but I would have liked to see more responses from the people in my PoE.
@Kayak and @Beluga Whale , how do you feel about Gondola?
I think I did read it but didn't find a ton to reply to yeah.
First part is that Gondola has better engagement after a replacement which is fair but kinda NAI for me.
In terms of liking the questioning and engagement, I think Beluga and Sub have achieved similar things so it's not enough to escape PoE on its own imo.
Your last past is about them taking a firm stance on the HB counterclaim day which is a little interesting as they commit to the vote early but don't actually place one on there. I could see the argument that if this bussing you would want the credit of having voted rather than saying you would.
Anyway I believe you town read Gondola but I would have liked to see more responses from the people in my PoE.
@Kayak and @Beluga Whale , how do you feel about Gondola?
Submarine
Costume
I have seen some of what you had said about Gondola but what is pinging you about Kayak and Beluga? Kayak in particular because in a small iso you seemed mostly favorable to that slot.
Beluga Whale
Costume
I think Gondola is okay and I'm fine town reading them. After their motion detecting claim, realistically they would be absolutely fucked if Kayak or Yacht had a PR that could move those days. Even if it were 2 shot, that would wreck their credibility.
There are only two situations I can see a scum Gondola doing that and they're both less likely to me than Gondola playing it straight.
Submarine
Costume
This is me typing out loud as I am working on finding my footing and this might help.
For me Lifeboat has been the scummiest feeling player all game. That said I would only consider that slot in a F3 with the cop only flipping with a single shot.
I think Kayak has been cherry picking arguments in a way that I find more than a little disingenuous. That said looking through D1 I don't see them as likely paired with HB. My partner disagrees on that front and I can certainly see where they are coming from but I don't quite feel it there yet.
Yacht is weird for me. Looking at D1 and their interactions with HB they feel more potentially paired than Kayak and HB are. But outside of the D1 and those interactions I think they are relatively OK?
Inflatable feels like they have been the most consistent in the game so far, I really haven't seen much to quibble with.
Gondola's claim is really good as it balances Beluga's claim. However part of me wonders if it's a little too good. They claim to check the D1 counter which makes sense. They claim to have checked LB on N2 and supposedly saw the cop movement at least and these claims came after the cop declaration and flip. They claimed to check the counter wagon N3. All of their claimed actions make sense and if it's Kayak or Yacht they just missed their 50/50 chance twice. It's all very believeable but my mind is wondering if it just makes too much sense. They also seem to have the most likely D1 HB bus to me.
Beluga is more null than I would like. I can confirm their claim by looking at our chat but it's NAI. Beyond that nothing has jumped out to me which is why I asked both Inflatable and Yacht about their reads there.
Vote wise I think Beluga and Gondola have the worst combined votes on D1 and D3 but I may be using hindsight too much on those. Still both of those felt like easier votes to take in my read through (for the record I am not a fan of our D1 vote but again maybe it's hindsight). I don't like Yacht being off wagon D1 with no self preserve, makes me wonder if they knew they would be safe.
For me Lifeboat has been the scummiest feeling player all game. That said I would only consider that slot in a F3 with the cop only flipping with a single shot.
I think Kayak has been cherry picking arguments in a way that I find more than a little disingenuous. That said looking through D1 I don't see them as likely paired with HB. My partner disagrees on that front and I can certainly see where they are coming from but I don't quite feel it there yet.
Yacht is weird for me. Looking at D1 and their interactions with HB they feel more potentially paired than Kayak and HB are. But outside of the D1 and those interactions I think they are relatively OK?
Inflatable feels like they have been the most consistent in the game so far, I really haven't seen much to quibble with.
Gondola's claim is really good as it balances Beluga's claim. However part of me wonders if it's a little too good. They claim to check the D1 counter which makes sense. They claim to have checked LB on N2 and supposedly saw the cop movement at least and these claims came after the cop declaration and flip. They claimed to check the counter wagon N3. All of their claimed actions make sense and if it's Kayak or Yacht they just missed their 50/50 chance twice. It's all very believeable but my mind is wondering if it just makes too much sense. They also seem to have the most likely D1 HB bus to me.
Beluga is more null than I would like. I can confirm their claim by looking at our chat but it's NAI. Beyond that nothing has jumped out to me which is why I asked both Inflatable and Yacht about their reads there.
Vote wise I think Beluga and Gondola have the worst combined votes on D1 and D3 but I may be using hindsight too much on those. Still both of those felt like easier votes to take in my read through (for the record I am not a fan of our D1 vote but again maybe it's hindsight). I don't like Yacht being off wagon D1 with no self preserve, makes me wonder if they knew they would be safe.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Is there any particular reason you didn't Unvote Duck here?
Inflatable Boat
Costume
When you have a moment can you explain why Beluga/Kayak isn't a possible team? We noticed something about that pair and I'm curious for your take on it.
Submarine
Costume
Not sure which one of you is active but wanted to see where you have landed.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
We're actively discussing right now, but one of us is about to hit the road and enjoy their night, and work is busy tomorrow, so we're doing our best to put our heads together in the short amount of time we have together.
As of right now, we both feel decently strong that Yacht is town. And if they're scum---congrats. But we're not going there today.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
We do not feel fantastic about Beluga Whale. D1 they played it safe. D2 had more activity. There was some heat/interest from Beluga towards Kayak, but after D2 it seemingly vanished, unless we're missing it? Lots of difficulty getting them to name people they scumread today or give possible teams. I'm doing a bad job summarizing because it's late and because our Beluga Whale posts/quotes are massive. My partner is has gone real Google Docs on me with their notes. Landed at thinking all the townie things Beluga has done are easily enough faked by scum.
We're not ready to vote Beluga though. We're still weighing all the contenders. It won't be Yacht. It won't be Lifeboat.
We're not ready to vote Beluga though. We're still weighing all the contenders. It won't be Yacht. It won't be Lifeboat.
Submarine
Costume
You know you are right. Beluga's focus on Kayak did sort of dip after the first day. If all three are scum that'd mean both Beluga and HB took a risk voting Kayak which has been done with bigger scum teams, but not sure they would with a three person team.Are you thinking that if Beluga is scum it'd be them with HB and not Kayak?
Inflatable Boat
Costume
I throw out a bunch to see what sticks, and one simple theory is that if Beluga is scum, they didn't enjoy town Kayak clapping back at them as much as they did and so they sought should we say....softer targets.
Are you thinking that if Beluga is scum it'd be them with HB and not Kayak?
Submarine
Costume
True. Kayak can hit hard even when you are town in a tunnel XD
Yacht
Costume
Mostly PoE where I'm not seeing you, Life or IB as the scum. Everyone left has moments when they look towny but those top 3 are the most consistent IMO.
For Kayak the main negative is still that day one vote because in my experience when a post says someone votes to vote a certain way but the actual vote goes somewhere else that can be a tell of a partner.
For Beluga they mostly floated in the periphery of the game so there's no concrete action that points to them being town, they have a mix of good engagement and then also feeling uninvested.
Yacht
Costume
Looking back Kayak claimed at EoD yesterday before Gondolas claim. It's true that they called our non-movement before our claim but there could be other ways to call that (role cop, inference from a more informed scum viewpoint of the setup and our actions)
Submarine
Costume
Ok I going to be real here, all of that works needs to be in this thread. This isn't an Inflatable solves everything on their own or Submarine solves everything on their own or anyone solves everything on their own. This is meant to be collaborative and I am getting the feeling that the reason why the thread is relatively dead and I'm having problems really getting a feel of where everyone is at is because people who are doing work are doing it behind the scenes. Town has at least 10 actual players who should be active (13 team game could only be two scum total), there should be a lot more discussion being generated. Looking at other arguments, poking and prodding to see how they fit or don't, that's how we get them. Instead your post here does nothing to show, let alone convince, me that I should follow you down on Beluga because there is nothing in that post I can latch on to.
Yacht
Costume
Can't recall a particular reason but I do think I have a preference toward moving a vote directly rather than unvoting in between because people could still engage with our Duck read while I was reassessing.
Submarine
Costume
Honestly I have had similar thoughts! However it'd make any bussing even more risky and sounds almost cruel in a game this size so I hope for their sakes there are three pairs XD
Yacht
Costume
Mostly this interaction
Beluga votes Kayak after HBs late fakeclaim making Kayak a viable wagon and Kayak takes the time to argue over it. It seems to me that scum would have better things to be doing in the critical time between the claim and new wagons being established.
Beluga Whale
Costume
So, are you saying that Gondola is scum, knew from yesterday that Kayak was vanilla and claimed no movement, and then either targeted you to find out about your actions N3 or took a calculated risk that you were vanilla? If I'm getting that right, you believe Kayak is town in this situation.
I know you're joking but 2 scum pairs in a game with unlimited doctor is unlikely.
2 scum teams is even crazier.
Submarine
Costume
pretty sure my partner just meant 2 scum pairs but I could be wrong :shrug:
Submarine
Costume
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
Yacht (1 votes)
Kayak - #1,277
Gondola (1 votes)
Yacht - #1,376
Not voting: Inflatable Boat, Submarine, Beluga Whale, Lifeboat, Gondola
Post Counts:
Submarine: 50 Inflatable Boat: 34 Beluga Whale: 30 Yacht: 23 Kayak: 16 Lifeboat: 14 Gondola: 14
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
Yacht (1 votes)
Kayak - #1,277
Gondola (1 votes)
Yacht - #1,376
Not voting: Inflatable Boat, Submarine, Beluga Whale, Lifeboat, Gondola
Post Counts:
Submarine: 50 Inflatable Boat: 34 Beluga Whale: 30 Yacht: 23 Kayak: 16 Lifeboat: 14 Gondola: 14
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Beluga Whale
Costume
Yeah, I thought so. I added the teams just in case lol.
Submarine
Costume
Correct only two pairs. That could be a way to counter balance the cop shot. I don't really think this is the case but also my brain started running with it.
Submarine
Costume
I mean have you looked at our total post count?
Submarine
Costume
LOL yeah I just looked at the vote tool. Not bad considering I only made like 3-5 posts for all of day 2 tho Engineer 2 was just as chatty as me :D
Inflatable Boat
Costume
What if we want all the glory? /s
I'm putting together a post on Beluga right now as well as our reads and potential vote. Trust me, you don't want to see my unfiltered 'Google Doc' mess of quotes and words lol
Hey it's a big game, I'm sorry.
Submariner 3?
Submarine
Costume
>:( You better pay me back for this.
Submariner 3?
Wasn't it obvious?I even responded "oh hello!" Not only have I been trying to solve this gosh darn mafia game, but I've been having to train a third submariner >:( Luckily they were able to take 2's stations easily without being far from the mike!
Inflatable Boat
Costume
I guess I should have noticed with the lack of italics lol. But no, it wasn't obvious.>:( You better pay me back for this.
I even responded "oh hello!" Not only have I been trying to solve this gosh darn mafia game, but I've been having to train a third submariner >:( Luckily they were able to take 2's stations easily without being far from the mike!
Welcome, Submariner 3
Submarine
Costume
This whole time I thought i was the one that couldn't read, but it was you.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
It's 'Google Doc' Boat again. I'm so sorry for how long this took as we didn't realize Beluga had over 250 posts and Yacht had over 100 and we both juggled that and trying to figure out who we were looking at.
Some background on it to be clear. At first it was figuring out what two boats could be teamed of the remaining and who was most likely vs not. This lead me to feel it was some combo of Yacht, Kayak, Sub, & Beluga and I spent yesterday in our chat whittling that down to some main groups that seemed feasible and they all had one person across all groups: Yacht. So, I suggested we go for Yacht as a vote.
My partner was baffled by this since they really felt Yacht was Town. I didn't have a solid lead on them outside this PoE so after some back and forth chats and ruling out stuff, we ventually landed on focusing our reread purely on two people: Yacht and Beluga.
Which is where my next big ass post is coming in. The tl;dr is simple: Beluga is more likely to be scum than not in our opinion. Yacht is so Townie on a reread I'm sad I didn't do it sooner.
Some background on it to be clear. At first it was figuring out what two boats could be teamed of the remaining and who was most likely vs not. This lead me to feel it was some combo of Yacht, Kayak, Sub, & Beluga and I spent yesterday in our chat whittling that down to some main groups that seemed feasible and they all had one person across all groups: Yacht. So, I suggested we go for Yacht as a vote.
My partner was baffled by this since they really felt Yacht was Town. I didn't have a solid lead on them outside this PoE so after some back and forth chats and ruling out stuff, we ventually landed on focusing our reread purely on two people: Yacht and Beluga.
Which is where my next big ass post is coming in. The tl;dr is simple: Beluga is more likely to be scum than not in our opinion. Yacht is so Townie on a reread I'm sad I didn't do it sooner.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Here’s my Beluga reread that my partner and I agree on. And yes, this is the condensed version of the mess.
--
Day 1 Beluga stayed out of the Houseboat/Galleon/Duck arguments and only semi-involved themselves when asked directly. Even then the reads weren’t strong (NAI on Houseboat & Scumish on Sub) and changed shortly after.
They have 2 early reads list that are important for a few things:
Sub becomes a Townread
Dislikes Kayak’s HB vote and how the following Yacht vote was attached to Jet Ski’s vote
Houseboat is a slight scum read BUT the read ties Sub to them, suggesting Sub is a better vote first
Yacht is ‘hard to read’
NO reads on Galleon or Duck despite being central to Houseboat.
Beluga/Kayak get into a small ‘fight’ early on about how many Kayak(s) are responding so far - which Kayak gets defensive about while Beluga explains. At first I agreed with my partner this meant they were teamed - but later Beluga actions make me doubt that. Know that Beluga NEVER uses this or brings it up against/for Kayak.
HB’s Doc claim gets them to move their vote to Kayak. Despite never openly suggesting to vote out HB they always seem to qualify HB’s read in an odd, ‘this wont last’ sort of way. Almost like they knew it wouldn’t last/didn’t trust it. See:
Eventually they drop Kayak and go for Galleon. Note they never gave a read on Galleon up to this point. Again, I point out that their reason for town reading us and scum reading Galleon are the same.
Doesn’t seem to consider Yacht an option either despite them being an ‘unknown/hard to read’.
--
Day 2 Beluga was more active but it was mainly in regards to Cruise’s Counterclaim of Houseboat - a place that Scum can easily pick a side on and go in. Beluga is also notably active here (as they were in the Kayak ‘partners’ argument) which tells me they have the ability to go in depth back-and-forth on topics but chooses not to. The ones they do choose are either easy or not scum hunting related.
Of note is Beluga saying they would have preferred Kayak over Galleon/Us and Yacht goes from an 'unsure/no comment' to 'not scummy'. This is the second Kayak push in 2 Days - and it will be suddenly the last.
--
Day 3 Beluga comes in hot but with a noticeable lack of Kayak read/push. I’m paraphrasing here but these are the reads with post numbers (i know, i know, im sorry);
It’s odd that Kayak was Beluga’s big push Day 1 AND Day 2 to suddenly them…not being their vote choice for Day 3? They have a chance to go Kayak in these 2 posts but instead take from all of it….that they shouldn’t go for Sub.
And then end on Skiff - their ??? after being on Kayak for Days.
--
Today. My partner put it perfectly that Beluga is ‘slippery’ - they are vague and indecisive in easily defensible ways. I won’t quote everything but take a look at Beluga’s responses to my questions today when asked for groups or what they may do if X or Y flips Town. Lots of indecision, dancing around questions, not answering questions, etc. - they are being slippery and don’t want to be pinned down. I think it’s highly likely Beluga is Scum and knows they don’t have many avenues left to push misvotes and it’s why they didn’t want to theorize - it shows just how cornered they are. See their post where they finally spitballed with me. They end up saying it ‘must be you I guess’ and can’t come up with other working pairs to help solve the game.
Their teammate is more of a question. I’m very happy I did the Yacht reread because I’m firmly in the camp that they are Town. This leaves Sub, Kayak, ….and Gondola.
Sub with Beluga I struggle with because of their claims. I don’t think Scum has both. Possible, but unlikely. Beluga tying Sub to HB seems odd if Beluga is Scum.
Beluga and Gondola I would need to look into but I don’t have the time to today. Beluga has nothing notable with Gondola or against them. Entirely possible for a team.
Beluga and Kayak have problems as previously discussed: the two’s argument on which partner posted Day 1, Beluga & HB’s vote on Kayak (odd for 3 scums), etc. HOWEVER, my partner brought this up and I think it’s worth considering: HB’s big reads list/vote (which we believe was HB’s attempt to save themselves) nails down Kayak as scum but when another option presented itself (Galleon) they jumped ship immediately to it and claimed Kayak’s train to be ‘dead’. My partner believes this more than I do but they think Kayak was possibly a sacrificial Scum player to save HB - it explains Kayak’s odd HB vote, HB going after them and dropping them so fast, etc. If Beluga does flip Scum today I wouldn’t immediately go for Kayak tomorrow however, I’d still want to read over Gondola before making that decision.
--
Day 1 Beluga stayed out of the Houseboat/Galleon/Duck arguments and only semi-involved themselves when asked directly. Even then the reads weren’t strong (NAI on Houseboat & Scumish on Sub) and changed shortly after.
They have 2 early reads list that are important for a few things:
Sub becomes a Townread
Dislikes Kayak’s HB vote and how the following Yacht vote was attached to Jet Ski’s vote
Houseboat is a slight scum read BUT the read ties Sub to them, suggesting Sub is a better vote first
Yacht is ‘hard to read’
NO reads on Galleon or Duck despite being central to Houseboat.
Beluga/Kayak get into a small ‘fight’ early on about how many Kayak(s) are responding so far - which Kayak gets defensive about while Beluga explains. At first I agreed with my partner this meant they were teamed - but later Beluga actions make me doubt that. Know that Beluga NEVER uses this or brings it up against/for Kayak.
HB’s Doc claim gets them to move their vote to Kayak. Despite never openly suggesting to vote out HB they always seem to qualify HB’s read in an odd, ‘this wont last’ sort of way. Almost like they knew it wouldn’t last/didn’t trust it. See:
Eventually they drop Kayak and go for Galleon. Note they never gave a read on Galleon up to this point. Again, I point out that their reason for town reading us and scum reading Galleon are the same.
Doesn’t seem to consider Yacht an option either despite them being an ‘unknown/hard to read’.
--
Day 2 Beluga was more active but it was mainly in regards to Cruise’s Counterclaim of Houseboat - a place that Scum can easily pick a side on and go in. Beluga is also notably active here (as they were in the Kayak ‘partners’ argument) which tells me they have the ability to go in depth back-and-forth on topics but chooses not to. The ones they do choose are either easy or not scum hunting related.
Of note is Beluga saying they would have preferred Kayak over Galleon/Us and Yacht goes from an 'unsure/no comment' to 'not scummy'. This is the second Kayak push in 2 Days - and it will be suddenly the last.
--
Day 3 Beluga comes in hot but with a noticeable lack of Kayak read/push. I’m paraphrasing here but these are the reads with post numbers (i know, i know, im sorry);
It’s odd that Kayak was Beluga’s big push Day 1 AND Day 2 to suddenly them…not being their vote choice for Day 3? They have a chance to go Kayak in these 2 posts but instead take from all of it….that they shouldn’t go for Sub.
And then end on Skiff - their ??? after being on Kayak for Days.
--
Today. My partner put it perfectly that Beluga is ‘slippery’ - they are vague and indecisive in easily defensible ways. I won’t quote everything but take a look at Beluga’s responses to my questions today when asked for groups or what they may do if X or Y flips Town. Lots of indecision, dancing around questions, not answering questions, etc. - they are being slippery and don’t want to be pinned down. I think it’s highly likely Beluga is Scum and knows they don’t have many avenues left to push misvotes and it’s why they didn’t want to theorize - it shows just how cornered they are. See their post where they finally spitballed with me. They end up saying it ‘must be you I guess’ and can’t come up with other working pairs to help solve the game.
Their teammate is more of a question. I’m very happy I did the Yacht reread because I’m firmly in the camp that they are Town. This leaves Sub, Kayak, ….and Gondola.
Sub with Beluga I struggle with because of their claims. I don’t think Scum has both. Possible, but unlikely. Beluga tying Sub to HB seems odd if Beluga is Scum.
Beluga and Gondola I would need to look into but I don’t have the time to today. Beluga has nothing notable with Gondola or against them. Entirely possible for a team.
Beluga and Kayak have problems as previously discussed: the two’s argument on which partner posted Day 1, Beluga & HB’s vote on Kayak (odd for 3 scums), etc. HOWEVER, my partner brought this up and I think it’s worth considering: HB’s big reads list/vote (which we believe was HB’s attempt to save themselves) nails down Kayak as scum but when another option presented itself (Galleon) they jumped ship immediately to it and claimed Kayak’s train to be ‘dead’. My partner believes this more than I do but they think Kayak was possibly a sacrificial Scum player to save HB - it explains Kayak’s odd HB vote, HB going after them and dropping them so fast, etc. If Beluga does flip Scum today I wouldn’t immediately go for Kayak tomorrow however, I’d still want to read over Gondola before making that decision.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
Now where does that leave us?
Vote: Beluga Whale
I will say we shouldn’t ignore Gondola like we have been. I was Town reading them but I have never looked into them deeply - it could reveal they aren’t as Townie as they seem (like Beluga). Their D1 vote on HB could also be a bus. ESPECIALLY consider this if Beluga is Town as that would leave the only options as Sub/Kayak (the ones who went after each other last Phase - aka a hell of a bus).
Sub is not impossible as Scum - Superstar reveals nothing. Their Day 1 defense of HB is still bad. ONLY consider them Scum IF Beluga is Town.
Kayak is tough. They would have had to have been the sacrificial scum lamb of D1 given HB’s vote and read. Not impossible, however, as our struggle to find the last Scum should attest. HB/Kayak doing votes against each other to separate is a valid plan.
If Yacht is Scum I will bow before them and call them Mafia Gods. They will deserve the win if this is the case. I don’t believe they are Scum.
Lifeboat has the Green Check. 1-shot Cop suggests no Godfather. Would never vote unless the final 3 was Us, Yacht, and Lifeboat.
Vote: Beluga Whale
I will say we shouldn’t ignore Gondola like we have been. I was Town reading them but I have never looked into them deeply - it could reveal they aren’t as Townie as they seem (like Beluga). Their D1 vote on HB could also be a bus. ESPECIALLY consider this if Beluga is Town as that would leave the only options as Sub/Kayak (the ones who went after each other last Phase - aka a hell of a bus).
Sub is not impossible as Scum - Superstar reveals nothing. Their Day 1 defense of HB is still bad. ONLY consider them Scum IF Beluga is Town.
Kayak is tough. They would have had to have been the sacrificial scum lamb of D1 given HB’s vote and read. Not impossible, however, as our struggle to find the last Scum should attest. HB/Kayak doing votes against each other to separate is a valid plan.
If Yacht is Scum I will bow before them and call them Mafia Gods. They will deserve the win if this is the case. I don’t believe they are Scum.
Lifeboat has the Green Check. 1-shot Cop suggests no Godfather. Would never vote unless the final 3 was Us, Yacht, and Lifeboat.
Inflatable Boat
Costume
My partner already went to bed and I'm getting ready for some sleep myself. I'll be honest I'm a bit exhausted looking at this game after all this reading today and it reminds me why I don't play much anymore.
I will try to be here before Day End but no promises. My partner is hoping for the same but we both have work.
We would prefer Beluga as the vote. Kayak as secondary but much, much less certain due to Day 1. Sub is somewhere in the middle as not the preference but not strong feelings. Gondola....not today? We need to read there but lack the time.
It's not Yacht/Lifeboat. I'd bet money on it.
I will try to be here before Day End but no promises. My partner is hoping for the same but we both have work.
We would prefer Beluga as the vote. Kayak as secondary but much, much less certain due to Day 1. Sub is somewhere in the middle as not the preference but not strong feelings. Gondola....not today? We need to read there but lack the time.
It's not Yacht/Lifeboat. I'd bet money on it.
Gondola
Costume
@Inflatable Boat appreciate the lack of time and that you've dropped a bunch of lengthy posts already since I was last on but can you actually run me through what makes you so certain Yacht is town from your reread?
Gondola
Costume
THings that stood out to me on a houseboat reread that I want folks to consider with Yacht's slot:
Houseboat's biggest effort on D1 to try and make something happen before they hit the panic button and claim. A lot of these reads are pretty cursory with the lion's share of effort being poured into Galleon & Kayak, Galleon is where they will later put their vote and will flip town. Cruise who flipped as town and Yacht are put off until later on.
Comes back to Cruise and Yacht, Cruise (town) gets a light town read, Yacht gets a neutral read here that let's them go either way on the slot.
In this string of posts, now they don't like Yacht but can't vote there because of Kayak and then because Kayak and Galleon take priority. Imo this reads like they're putting barricades in the way. They go Galleon in the end so it could read the opposite way where they're instead trying to keep away form being on Kayak; it comes down to how you interpret the strategy and their ISO above I think, I think they want that slot as an option when they post the ISO and the way they shade Kayak and go back and forth doesn't look teamed to me.
Day 2 open they want to step away from Yacht and Kayak now. If you are scum and they are town, why do you step away from the read? Why not keep pushing there? Particularly when Yacht sat off wagon D1 and had enough people open to the slot on D1 for it to come down to the last minute on a vote, why not just push that?
I think this is the last proper read they give on Yacht and they've wiggled back to a more neutral position. Why does houseboat want to put it out there that it was probably T/T and that scum wouldn't have sat off wagon in that situation? why not just keep it open? We know whatever they are saying could just be bogus either way but it does feel a little like narrative building.
On Yacht's end, they are on Houseboat early D1 which does look good, I'll say that and would have went further for me if I had liked the slot for other things as the game has went on but at this point someone criticising Yacht was probably scum looking for towny points; I can go around in circles mentally on how scum handled that but it's not something I can clear the slot on. I don't like that on D1 they sit off wagon when they are one of the wagons, why not just vote to save yourself? D2 votes are a bit of a wash, D3 there's a similar situation where they find a reason to vote me, are in the thread with ten mins to go and saying they're perfectly happy to sit on me when it's pretty obvious the discussion and votes have been going elsewhere. They only move when the vote is tied up and they are prompted to break it.
Today I feel like the wheels have been coming off their reads. stuff like:
They have what looks like a positive read on Kayak and then
it's probably Kayak and my slot, or Beluga and Kayak. I think it was pointed out but I'm the vote even with Kayak as the common thread. For my vote they say:
that my flip as scum would clear Beluga but then Beluga is cited in combo with me above.
This just reads like they're throwing out stuff to wifom then drop it as soon as they get push back.
Do I know Yacht is scum for sure? No, there's a decent element here when I go through houseboat that's based on my interpretation of Kayak being a legitimate push from houseboat but this is the read I feel strongest about right now.
Vote: Yacht
I do not know what my partner is doing currently. Their behaviour has not been particularly out of character for them as town, though I know that is harder to get across in costume. I cannot do much about getting nailed to the wall for things I have not said, so I am just going to try to do my own thing.
Submarine is very much projecting big time town now. Large reads lists, many interactions with different players. I will not worry about them unless they are still alive late game, or if their activity suddenly drops off on later days.
Beluga seems town thus far. They are posting reads, asking questions, and following up. Cannot ask for much more on Day 1. Also Beluga Whales are cute.
I like Inflatable Boat’s engagement style thus far. They are asking a lot of questions to different players. Scum can certainly ask a lot of questions too, but I personally find Inflatable’s questions are pertinent and poignant. I would find quotes but I am really running out of time here, sorry.
I liked that Galleon was active early and trying to make connections, no matter how trivial, but I do not love how Galleon has double, triple, and quadruple downed on voting and pushing for me despite the initial vote being seemingly a joke. They have used very strong language that invokes a greater severity than reality, such as “slimy”, and “super scummy”. They have stretched the truth to make their point:
Where did they get that from? Here is the post they were quoting for reference:
At most you can say it was a 50/50 based on the wording. Or, even better, they could have simply asked me. Instead they immediately jumped in and used this as fuel for their argument.
I do think it is scummy to dive deeply into a tunnel on Day 1, when little is known. It is easy to focus most of your attention on one player, with some asides about others, and look as though you are busy.
Additionally, this is such a weird post. They had 1 vote on them as of this time, why are they worried about getting voted out?
I do think Galleon is scummy and I am willing to vote for them.
I am still not liking Kayak despite the increased volume in their posts.
I do not like this boohoo this is so hard woe is me post:
Yes, it is hard for all of us. We have not done a game like this in this community before. This feels an excuse for other behaviour, perhaps to come, that they can lean on later.
Their vote on me felt opportunistic as my wagon was just taking off, even though this post:
Seems to be leaning more towards a vote towards Yacht than myself, but then votes me anyway. Also says Yacht is more interesting and also voting me is more interesting in the same post, so which was it? I appreciate they later changed their vote to Yacht, but only after being called out by Lifeboat in #372.
I do not like this interaction with Gondola. Why are they being antagonistic towards someone trying to get town to work together? You can say that Gondola is saying nice platitudes that anyone regardless of alignment could say, but why attack them for it? And then act dismissive about it later in response?
This reads to me as a very “twitter waffles” type reaction.
Gondola’s post did not mention ignoring scum, but rather finding town. Yet ignoring scum is what Kayak got out of it.
I feel Kayak is scummy. I would also vote there.
Jet Ski has been mostly pleasant and around just often enough to be seen, but I have not seen a particularly town mindset from them thus far. They have been floating along and not making waves. I would say NAI so far but will keep an eye on there for later.
People do have to work, you know. I thought we were trying not to do this as a community anymore.
I believe Gondola has been mostly townie. They have been friendly and positive, asking questions and making reads. Obviously I do not like their vote, but it has more thought behind it than Galleon or Kayak’s votes for myself. I believe I may know who is behind one half of the Gondola, and if I am correct I do not really want to vote them Day 1 purely on principle. Unless of course they are making a total fool of themselves, which they are currently not.
Anybody who I have not mentioned here or previously is NAI to me.
I will vote Kayak now, as I can see at a stretch how Galleon could possibly still be overconfident, deeply tunneled town, whereas with Kayak I cannot find anything particularly town about them. Obviously I am not in a great position here so I am more than willing to self-pres and change my vote. I will not vote for my town reads.
Vote: Kayak
I would still like to ISO Yacht and Cruise Ship because I remember a few points about them in my head but it is not clear enough. However, I am running out of time here. I vaguely liked Cruise Ship and found Yacht to just be around.
Houseboat's biggest effort on D1 to try and make something happen before they hit the panic button and claim. A lot of these reads are pretty cursory with the lion's share of effort being poured into Galleon & Kayak, Galleon is where they will later put their vote and will flip town. Cruise who flipped as town and Yacht are put off until later on.
Comes back to Cruise and Yacht, Cruise (town) gets a light town read, Yacht gets a neutral read here that let's them go either way on the slot.
In this string of posts, now they don't like Yacht but can't vote there because of Kayak and then because Kayak and Galleon take priority. Imo this reads like they're putting barricades in the way. They go Galleon in the end so it could read the opposite way where they're instead trying to keep away form being on Kayak; it comes down to how you interpret the strategy and their ISO above I think, I think they want that slot as an option when they post the ISO and the way they shade Kayak and go back and forth doesn't look teamed to me.
Day 2 open they want to step away from Yacht and Kayak now. If you are scum and they are town, why do you step away from the read? Why not keep pushing there? Particularly when Yacht sat off wagon D1 and had enough people open to the slot on D1 for it to come down to the last minute on a vote, why not just push that?
I think this is the last proper read they give on Yacht and they've wiggled back to a more neutral position. Why does houseboat want to put it out there that it was probably T/T and that scum wouldn't have sat off wagon in that situation? why not just keep it open? We know whatever they are saying could just be bogus either way but it does feel a little like narrative building.
On Yacht's end, they are on Houseboat early D1 which does look good, I'll say that and would have went further for me if I had liked the slot for other things as the game has went on but at this point someone criticising Yacht was probably scum looking for towny points; I can go around in circles mentally on how scum handled that but it's not something I can clear the slot on. I don't like that on D1 they sit off wagon when they are one of the wagons, why not just vote to save yourself? D2 votes are a bit of a wash, D3 there's a similar situation where they find a reason to vote me, are in the thread with ten mins to go and saying they're perfectly happy to sit on me when it's pretty obvious the discussion and votes have been going elsewhere. They only move when the vote is tied up and they are prompted to break it.
Today I feel like the wheels have been coming off their reads. stuff like:
They have what looks like a positive read on Kayak and then
it's probably Kayak and my slot, or Beluga and Kayak. I think it was pointed out but I'm the vote even with Kayak as the common thread. For my vote they say:
that my flip as scum would clear Beluga but then Beluga is cited in combo with me above.
This just reads like they're throwing out stuff to wifom then drop it as soon as they get push back.
Do I know Yacht is scum for sure? No, there's a decent element here when I go through houseboat that's based on my interpretation of Kayak being a legitimate push from houseboat but this is the read I feel strongest about right now.
Vote: Yacht
Gondola
Costume
Lol I actually did not realised this was the arrival of a new player either, I thought they were just feeling enthusiastic for the day
The Bear
Obligatory Gay Bear of the Society
==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
Yacht (2 votes)
Kayak - #1,277
Gondola - #1,480
Beluga Whale (1 votes)
Inflatable Boat - #1,477
Gondola (1 votes)
Yacht - #1,376
Not voting: Submarine, Beluga Whale, Lifeboat
Post Counts:
Submarine: 64 Inflatable Boat: 42 Beluga Whale: 32 Yacht: 27 Gondola: 17 Kayak: 16 Lifeboat: 14
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Day Start
Yacht (2 votes)
Kayak - #1,277
Gondola - #1,480
Beluga Whale (1 votes)
Inflatable Boat - #1,477
Gondola (1 votes)
Yacht - #1,376
Not voting: Submarine, Beluga Whale, Lifeboat
Post Counts:
Submarine: 64 Inflatable Boat: 42 Beluga Whale: 32 Yacht: 27 Gondola: 17 Kayak: 16 Lifeboat: 14
Current Countdown:
Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
Yacht
Costume
I was thinking the main way Gondolas claim can get caught in a lie is if they claim to target town that contradict them - I don't think they would take that risk if it put them in conflict before endgame.
I think I see your original point though, if scum Gondola used a team mate in their claim they would need to ensure that team mate has a role which makes sense to not move on that night. Do I have that right?
Yacht
Costume
A couple of night action type questions I thought of:
@Gondola if you had a no motion result on Kayak from n1 is there a reason you were quiet with all the discussion around Kayak yesterday? Did you think of pushing Kayak to claim more to see if they would lie about an active PR?
@Beluga Whale you say you were using your messages to test for redirection at various points. With more claims do you no longer think such a power exists? When there was some discussion around Lifeboat as a godfather did you consider if scum could have a switcher which your role could help counter?
@Gondola if you had a no motion result on Kayak from n1 is there a reason you were quiet with all the discussion around Kayak yesterday? Did you think of pushing Kayak to claim more to see if they would lie about an active PR?
@Beluga Whale you say you were using your messages to test for redirection at various points. With more claims do you no longer think such a power exists? When there was some discussion around Lifeboat as a godfather did you consider if scum could have a switcher which your role could help counter?
Yacht
Costume
Iis this supposed to be "this meant they were not teamed"?
I do think HB called this one prematurely.
But why would scum throw a 2nd member under bus to save a fake doc goon? It seems like if scum Kayak flipped on day 1 they would be screwed.
Beluga Whale
Costume
You have it right there.
It's possible such a role exists. I can't imagine that scum is just goon, weak PR, passive PR, but there's nothing to prove it. As for Lifeboat, that day if there was redirection I suspect Cruise would have been the main target, so I can't imagine Duck's shot being changed. Switch is possible but unlikely and WIFOM.
Gondola
Costume
Ultimately, the result only told us that there was no motion from that slot on N1 barring shenanigans, it would have been something to go after if Kayak had claimed something that didnt match with what we got. I think i was clear on how I felt about the slot and where we should go otherwise.
Yacht
Costume
1. I think the lack of D1 self pres was covered previously, both of us would do it and it was more the circumstances of EoD timing and HB wagon collapsing late that caused the vote to be off wagon. It wasn't a throwaway vote and it wasn't established where all the HB voters would be moving. I was looking at the counter wagons in Kayak and Galleon but wasn't convinced either were scum so I tried to put a vote on the best place I thought scum might be. It was also tough being confident in pressuring HB that people were then switching to HB voters.
2. For D3 this is disingenuous, the vote on you was based on a PoE that I still feel good about. We were both around in the last 10 minutes but only just and there were a lot of posts, votes and claims flying around to para through. Since the cop claim effectively split the day in half there wasn't really a clear race for us to weigh in on and from what I recall a lot of people voted very late so for most of the day the only way to be "on-wagon" would be to vote Kayak who would not be a top choice for me. You say it's obvious the votes and discussion were going elsewhere but was it? I thought the discussion focused on kayak/skiff/us so I was surprised sub was up there.
3. This reads stuff is 2 people and I haven't been able to sync up well or use our chat effectively this day because when I have time to play it doesn't make sense to put detailed notes into a private chat away from the discussion.
I do like Kayak but I don't know if I can rule them out as being your teammate. Beluga made a good point about your claims being tied, but without knowing the scum powers I can't say if that makes sense.
Kayak being on every team doesn't really work on me, I'm not sold on Beluga/Kayak. I think Beluga/Gondola or Kayak/Gondola would make more sense which is why you are my top preference.
I don't agree with my partner's reasoning that your scum flip would clear Beluga, a scum messenger can easily have a partner lie about getting a message rather than having to send it e.g n1 beluga does nk. If they are tracked/watched they can claim it was sending a message to the kill and then prove themselves by sending one to a live towny that night. If no one catches them, they can establish an alibi for the kill each night.
Have you said who your top 2 are? If you think it is us, who are we teamed with? If we go out today we'll flip town, which two are you looking at tomorrow with that flip?
Submarine
Costume
Man, I tried to make it as obvious as I could without coming right out and saying it! Also makes me wonder if people were really reading anything from us the past day or so because I feel like I have a different tone of voice than my partner.
Yacht
Costume
Okay so my Big Read / hot take is that EoD yesterday was town vs town with Kayak Vs Sub.
If Kayak is on a team their partner did very little to save them by letting the votes build up over the course of the day instead of starting a counter wagon. Kayak was also sharing their thoughts near the last minute when a vote from skiff or us could have hammered them. Add this with the HB interactions and I think Kayak can be town.
Sub has been very consistent in being open about their thought process. Even little things like the italics to differentiate feel like a town strategy to me. And their read on Kayak, I really feel that is something the believe rather than something they are trying to force. The high strung emotions from end of day yesterday speak to that as well.
So if these two are town, where are scum? IMO they are sitting pretty on the sidelines not doing much. That's why I think the team is Gondola + Beluga. Both have played it very safe with their votes in a way that feels like they are more concerned with looking towny than being towny. They do not have the consistency of IB or sub and they don't have the willingness to get things wrong and throw out theories that Lifeboat showed.
For Gondola, I feel they have ramped down rather than ramped up. As more information is being added and the pool of suspects narrows their thought process is less clear. The only meaningful push from them I can remember is Lifeboat and then today on us. They didn't seem very excited or curious with the day the doc was counter claimed, they could have known the answer.
For Beluga, they are also less consistent in showing an open thought process. They ask questions and they can be good questions but they seem to struggle to reach conclusions. During the 2-shot comment they were happy to treat Life and HB as the same alignment but didn't show the same work the others did on how they got there. They questioned Cruise a bunch of their claim early but didn't question HB much. If Cruise had weaker reasoning or more of the room was unsure this could have created opportunity to resolve that conflict incorrectly.
Both were on Lifeboat yesterday which was the bait Duck laid down in delaying that claim and looks like a very easy route for scum to take.
If Kayak is on a team their partner did very little to save them by letting the votes build up over the course of the day instead of starting a counter wagon. Kayak was also sharing their thoughts near the last minute when a vote from skiff or us could have hammered them. Add this with the HB interactions and I think Kayak can be town.
Sub has been very consistent in being open about their thought process. Even little things like the italics to differentiate feel like a town strategy to me. And their read on Kayak, I really feel that is something the believe rather than something they are trying to force. The high strung emotions from end of day yesterday speak to that as well.
So if these two are town, where are scum? IMO they are sitting pretty on the sidelines not doing much. That's why I think the team is Gondola + Beluga. Both have played it very safe with their votes in a way that feels like they are more concerned with looking towny than being towny. They do not have the consistency of IB or sub and they don't have the willingness to get things wrong and throw out theories that Lifeboat showed.
For Gondola, I feel they have ramped down rather than ramped up. As more information is being added and the pool of suspects narrows their thought process is less clear. The only meaningful push from them I can remember is Lifeboat and then today on us. They didn't seem very excited or curious with the day the doc was counter claimed, they could have known the answer.
For Beluga, they are also less consistent in showing an open thought process. They ask questions and they can be good questions but they seem to struggle to reach conclusions. During the 2-shot comment they were happy to treat Life and HB as the same alignment but didn't show the same work the others did on how they got there. They questioned Cruise a bunch of their claim early but didn't question HB much. If Cruise had weaker reasoning or more of the room was unsure this could have created opportunity to resolve that conflict incorrectly.
Both were on Lifeboat yesterday which was the bait Duck laid down in delaying that claim and looks like a very easy route for scum to take.
Yacht
Costume
This half of the Yacht is very likely to miss EoD so I'm curious what the other boats are thinking regarding their vote
@Kayak what made you want us more than Sub going in to today? Was there something particular?
@Submarine I know there is a replacement here and some catch up but are any top 2 scum becoming more apparent? You mentioned thinking there was only one other scum earlier, who would that be?
@Beluga Whale what are you thinking at this point? I've seen the gears could be turning on some claim pieces but I'm not sure if I missed where your reads were at?
@Lifeboat I think I saw you had 2 main teams you were looking at earlier, is that still where you are looking?
My preference is probably Gondola > Beluga at this point. Kayak is an outside possibility but I think their most likely partner would be Gondola.
@Kayak what made you want us more than Sub going in to today? Was there something particular?
@Submarine I know there is a replacement here and some catch up but are any top 2 scum becoming more apparent? You mentioned thinking there was only one other scum earlier, who would that be?
@Beluga Whale what are you thinking at this point? I've seen the gears could be turning on some claim pieces but I'm not sure if I missed where your reads were at?
@Lifeboat I think I saw you had 2 main teams you were looking at earlier, is that still where you are looking?
My preference is probably Gondola > Beluga at this point. Kayak is an outside possibility but I think their most likely partner would be Gondola.
Submarine
Costume
Some of this is likely going to copy what Inflatable did but with my own thoughts:
"They're consistent with not liking Houseboat and want to vote them, that doesn't change although the reasoning grows." That's good right? You don't like someone and then you keep poking and finding more (i.e. the reasoning grows) and you stay consistent. That's progression in a read and that's a good thing so its utterly baffling why a town Beluga would cast shade that direction....especially when they have a "slight scum read" on Houseboat themselves! Its like they want to have their cake and eat it too, trying to set themselves up right in the middle.
I really don't like this sequence. Why is scum reading someone and making a push on them on D1 automatically make them scum if the one they are pushing makes a claim? I have made good D1 pushes as town and bad D1 pushes as town but all of those pushes (well most anyways) had a town process and mindset going into it. Beluga had pointed out earlier that Inflatable had seemed to go through a process with Houseboat, why was that thrown out the window all of the sudden? I think Kayak's initial vote on HB was a bit wishy washy as most of that post was about Yacht but it doesn't seem like Beluga cared about that part, just that Kayak had voted for HB. And then Gally was just caught in the crosshairs despite also having a read and process. This whole thing seems to be setting up pivots rather than find actual scum.
"They're consistent with not liking Houseboat and want to vote them, that doesn't change although the reasoning grows." That's good right? You don't like someone and then you keep poking and finding more (i.e. the reasoning grows) and you stay consistent. That's progression in a read and that's a good thing so its utterly baffling why a town Beluga would cast shade that direction....especially when they have a "slight scum read" on Houseboat themselves! Its like they want to have their cake and eat it too, trying to set themselves up right in the middle.
I really don't like this sequence. Why is scum reading someone and making a push on them on D1 automatically make them scum if the one they are pushing makes a claim? I have made good D1 pushes as town and bad D1 pushes as town but all of those pushes (well most anyways) had a town process and mindset going into it. Beluga had pointed out earlier that Inflatable had seemed to go through a process with Houseboat, why was that thrown out the window all of the sudden? I think Kayak's initial vote on HB was a bit wishy washy as most of that post was about Yacht but it doesn't seem like Beluga cared about that part, just that Kayak had voted for HB. And then Gally was just caught in the crosshairs despite also having a read and process. This whole thing seems to be setting up pivots rather than find actual scum.
Beluga Whale
Costume
I'm thinking scum is in Kayak, Sub and Inflatable, and because I believe Kayak/Sub can't be teamed Inflatable becomes the common point between them. That makes the most sense after sorting through who I town read and don't believe could be scum.
I haven't spoken to my partner yet, so their conclusion may differ, but I don't mind being the vote today. I have a feeling that scum are intending to set my vote as a chain for tomorrow, so I would rather we do it today than lose tomorrow by voting out Yacht, or if Kayak was town. Today is the best day for this as we're one away from mylo and hopefully that will help town actually assess where they should look.
Gondola
Costume
I can promise absolutely nothing I've wrote is disingenous lol I stand by my read on the slot and I've explained why. You can keep trying to shade me by saying I've been passive or played it safe but I've cast a definitive vote every day and given everyone plenty of time to digest my reads and where to expect my vote to go, I haven't sat on the sidelines or tried to tuck my vote away. If the read is wrong, it's wrong and we pick ourselves up and look again but I've put all my energy into this game every time I've sat down. You demonstrated you were in the thread on D1 and you could have put a vote down on Galleon, with houseboat on Galleon I can very easily see you spacing yourself out and then getting caught there too nervous to jump back over and take any heat the next day. You demonstrated you were in the thread on D3 and said you were fine where you were until staying there would have looked awful with a draw at EoD. You say yourself above, you thought the conversation was about Kayak/Skiff and were surprised to see Sub come up, so to me it looked like you picked a slot not in contention (ours) and went there. Disparity in reads being blamed on 2 people has been a thing in this game, it will be true in some cases, doesn't really work when it's very obviously the one person throwing the idea out and then backing down like the lifeboat thing I quoted above.
I did respond to who my top 2 are. If you flip scum, sub and Beluga are next in my PoE and I leaned towards Sub, I would have to look seriously at Sub's spot with how their pushes have worked out. I'll say though I like the energy out of who has replaced in and the work they've been doing. Beluga is another possibility although that slot is greyer to me, Sub stands out for their big swings and misses like pushing against the houseboat sus or pushing Galleon which would have worked well for houseboat, same again if Kayak is town. Beluga is been quieter, I think I'd have to do a deeper ISO on them with a flip and see how it actually matches up in terms of votes and pushes.
If you flip town? I will probably just lie down on the floor face first lol I don't think that's going to happen and if it does, I will have a lot of work to do next day phase if I'm still here.
Gondola
Costume
Hope everything is alright!
Ah, don't take it that way, I meant more specifically the gif, it came through later lol I don't mean I was clueless until now
Inflatable Boat
Costume
As my partner said last night, we are goinf to be busy as hell today so hard to say how much we can pop in, but I saw this and had to comment:
You just nailed my biggest issue with Beluga in general.
Beluga Whale
Costume
I'll put my vote down here and will try to finish work so I'll be here at EoD.
Vote: Inflatable Boat
Vote: Inflatable Boat
Submarine
Costume
I will need to speak with my partner when they get around but this half is comfortable with a Beluga vote. As for the second I think its between Kayak and Yacht but I don't have a real gut feeling either way. I can see links between Beluga and Yacht via Beluga's posts (I have not cross examined Yacht's yet) but so there is a notable and somewhat suspicious (to me) lack of interactions/comments/thoughts from Beluga on Kayak that might be a bit of distancing going on.