RPG Mafia - Secret Chrono Fantasy Trail CIXVI

[Chuggernaut]

Vote: Chuggs

you’re going to be right back to Melon and Sorian tomorrow with zero wiggle room which is going to suck, but hey not my problem. I’d advise staying away from Muffin and Ty if possible. Still don’t think it’s them. Could be Ael but I’m not confident on that. Honestly this solve is going to suck and this is probably going to be a L so I’m glad I don’t have to worry about it

 

[Aeleus]

I checked xp math and it wasn't too helpful on identifying the poisoner, unfortunately everyone alive was a bit too xp hungry.

Me, Muffin and nin could not have done it unless there is xp fuckery afoot, you can only learn one ability per night and I learnt one of my lover abilities, Muffin learnt a gossip and nin learnt doublevote either N1 or N2 (so didn't have the xp/opportunity to learn a poison power).

 

[Sorian]

Vote: Chuggs

you’re going to be right back to Melon and Sorian tomorrow with zero wiggle room which is going to suck, but hey not my problem. I’d advise staying away from Muffin and Ty if possible. Still don’t think it’s them. Could be Ael but I’m not confident on that. Honestly this solve is going to suck and this is probably going to be a L so I’m glad I don’t have to worry about it

Please stop, even if this is an act please stop, I am tired of losing games at the last minute because of people rolling over and then I end up as a mislynch. I feel like that's what I got last time I played a non-costume game here.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Double quote, how does Ty line up in here as well?

Oh I completely forgot about Ty! Need to look there. Seriously, that under repped. The only thing there good is that yesterday we voted out scum instead of them (and even the there had to be some bussing). Doesn’t really help my thought process because it just opens up more “could be” states

And you make a compelling point on gossiping being tied to roleblocking. Like a jailer role but given great cover.

 

[Chuggernaut]

If you are town and he definitely gossiped you, the stipulation here could be easy, you gossip AND role check the person, you gossip AND roleblock the person, etc. etc. The public part of the ability provides the cover for the secret part. Honestly, I'm writing this and and seeing Turm's post, that could be the reason for all the tracking. Like yes, tracking someone to a dead body is great but Muffin should never be on a track/watch as a gossip but if he had a second ability that was also hitting the person then he would show on these reports. Maybe that's the reason for the extra tracks/watches

I don’t think it’s a roleblock. I mentioned sending Muffin a fruit later, he got confused and I think he was legit expecting it going into the day. And I don’t know man, I feel like if there was something like that involved Muffin would have been a lot more greedy about getting XP early instead of seeming like he hated the role

 

[Chuggernaut]

Please stop, even if this is an act please stop, I am tired of losing games at the last minute because of people rolling over and then I end up as a mislynch. I feel like that's what I got last time I played a non-costume game here.

I’m tired of getting made to feel like a piece of shit for pushing someone in a mafia game. I’ll do my best to solve while I’m still here, but I’m not interested in saving myself anymore.

 

[turmoil7]

I think this is the hardest to solve game I've been into. (I don't play bastard games)

 

[Sorian]

I don’t think it’s a roleblock. I mentioned sending Muffin a fruit later, he got confused and I think he was legit expecting it going into the day. And I don’t know man, I feel like if there was something like that involved Muffin would have been a lot more greedy about getting XP early instead of seeming like he hated the role

That interaction is so NAI to me. He could have been trying to "catch you" in a lie just as easily. Like if he knew your command would fail anyway, why not point it out for everyone to see? This is a strawman anyway though, there is any number of things a command paired with a gossip could be. Gossip + invalidate a vote, gossip + make the target hated, gossip + kill anyone who visits the target. There's actually a ton of shit you could balance around this so the exact example doesn't matter.

 

[Sorian]

I checked xp math and it wasn't too helpful on identifying the poisoner, unfortunately everyone alive was a bit too xp hungry.

Me, Muffin and nin could not have done it unless there is xp fuckery afoot, you can only learn one ability per night and I learnt one of my lover abilities, Muffin learnt a gossip and nin learnt doublevote either N1 or N2 (so didn't have the xp/opportunity to learn a poison power).

The problem was that it was too early to be a 6 exp power and basically everyone could have 4 exp by night 2 because you just had to be on one of the two votes. It's a good shout on you and nin but I don't really feel pressed to go back and verify because it's not you two anyway.

 

[Chuggernaut]

That interaction is so NAI to me. He could have been trying to "catch you" in a lie just as easily. Like if he knew your command would fail anyway, why not point it out for everyone to see? This is a strawman anyway though, there is any number of things a command paired with a gossip could be. Gossip + invalidate a vote, gossip + make the target hated, gossip + kill anyone who visits the target. There's actually a ton of shit you could balance around this so the exact example doesn't matter.

Okay fair enough. Let’s talk socially here. Because to me when I look at this scum team I see 3 people who went out of their way to be looking pretty solid when it comes to interactions. I don’t get that from Muffin at all especially early game. He was kind of stand offish and wasn’t super interested in blending.

And again, I want to point out that Muffin had to be almost dragged to getting XP and actually using this role and I just can’t imagine that would be your attitude if you were scum and got some roleblock/gossip thing. Like that’s a banger of a role and I would be rushing to “prove” that if I were scum

 

[Sorian]

Also with two scum, I'm kind of whatever on which one is the poisoner, it's nice to know if we flip the non-poisoner first at least.

 

[Chuggernaut]

I swear to god if I get to post game and the solve for this ends up being that Blarg made up the poison thing and Turms just happened to be tracked to Zipped as he was roleblocking him or some shit I’m going to be so pissed

 

[Sorian]

Okay fair enough. Let’s talk socially here. Because to me when I look at this scum team I see 3 people who went out of their way to be looking pretty solid when it comes to interactions. I don’t get that from Muffin at all especially early game. He was kind of stand offish and wasn’t super interested in blending.

And again, I want to point out that Muffin had to be almost dragged to getting XP and actually using this role and I just can’t imagine that would be your attitude if you were scum and got some roleblock/gossip thing. Like that’s a banger of a role and I would be rushing to “prove” that if I were scum

Do we? That's not what I see at all. Wizard went out of his way to look solid, but malus and Alex definitely did not. They were both coasting back and just letting the game happen. I'm harping on Muffin here with you specifically because you read to me as teamed at this point, so I'd rather force you to hard defend him or see how you re-consider if you do but I don't see this team as particularly blending well. There's another good hidden scum obviously but in the flips we have, Wizard was doing the strongest deep wolfing. The role is good for you or me but on someone who doesn't feel comfortable gossiping and keeping up the lies over night as well as the day? I could definitely see hesitation.

 

[Sorian]

I swear to god if I get to post game and the solve for this ends up being that Blarg made up the poison thing and Turms just happened to be tracked to Zipped as he was roleblocking him or some shit I’m going to be so pissed

I've considered this but I don't think Blarg made up the poison thing. I know no one bothered to comment on what I said about my shop last night but my item was literally a poison remedy which means poison had to be here.

 

[Aeleus]

I've considered this but I don't think Blarg made up the poison thing. I know no one bothered to comment on what I said about my shop last night but my item was literally a poison remedy which means poison had to be here.

thank you for posting this because I had forgotten and chugg's post was starting to cause my mind to go to dark, turmoil voting, places

 

[Ty4on]

T1:
- alignment check (Febe)
- tracker (Fran)
- weak hider (Sorian)

T2:
- alignment check(Zipped)
- watcher(Fran)
- tracker(Melon)

On T1 there is a repeat of alignment checks(Febe and Sorian) and on T2 there is a repeat of motion detectors(Fran and Melon)... This gives me the crazy idea that both of them may be town?

To me the pattern is vertical, Febe/Zipped and Fran/Melon.

 

[Chuggernaut]

Do we? That's not what I see at all. Wizard went out of his way to look solid, but malus and Alex definitely did not. They were both coasting back and just letting the game happen. I'm harping on Muffin here with you specifically because you read to me as teamed at this point, so I'd rather force you to hard defend him or see how you re-consider if you do but I don't see this team as particularly blending well. There's another good hidden scum obviously but in the flips we have, Wizard was doing the strongest deep wolfing. The role is good for you or me but on someone who doesn't feel comfortable gossiping and keeping up the lies over night as well as the day? I could definitely see hesitation.

I’m talking more general attitude than blending I guess. In the politest way possible, Muffin was kind of hostile to a degree that I just didn’t really get from them, and I really think he legit thought my push on him was coming from scum.

if you think we’re paired I would at least say you should go back and look at day 2. Like I’m sure spending a lot of time pushing my own partner against two town wagons to the point where it forced a claimed.

And yeah, that’s more of a dream roll for you and me than most people in the game, but you don’t have to use a gossip like that. You could make chats with someone like Zipped and that becomes significantly more manageable. I see what you’re saying, but I’m struggling to see this here

 

[Chuggernaut]

Also just want a reminder that I think the whole ass scum team has shaded Muffin and not in a way that reads to me as a bus

 

[Aeleus]

Mad idea but want people to hear it: is it possible that the poison only had a % chance to work and should have killed blarg at the end of the day. It didn't and so they night killed him?

turmoil tracked to Zipped while being naughty (role copping for example) and upon being found out claims the backup role as we were all looking for a reason for there not being two kills.

 

[melonrabbit]

I’m tired of getting made to feel like a piece of shit for pushing someone in a mafia game. I’ll do my best to solve while I’m still here, but I’m not interested in saving myself anymore.

You didn't just push me. That was kinda a step beyond over things I have very little control over.

And making assumptions on my feelings or interest in this game which I felt was uncalled and asked you stop and solve this together and you continued.That's what I took issue with and made this unfun.

If you'd now like to solve together we can move on from this and attempt to make sense of all this.

 

[Ty4on]

I’m talking more general attitude than blending I guess. In the politest way possible, Muffin was kind of hostile to a degree that I just didn’t really get from them, and I really think he legit thought my push on him was coming from scum.

if you think we’re paired I would at least say you should go back and look at day 2. Like I’m sure spending a lot of time pushing my own partner against two town wagons to the point where it forced a claimed.

And yeah, that’s more of a dream roll for you and me than most people in the game, but you don’t have to use a gossip like that. You could make chats with someone like Zipped and that becomes significantly more manageable. I see what you’re saying, but I’m struggling to see this here

You two deserve a medal if that was theater lol

 

[Sorian]

Mad idea but want people to hear it: is it possible that the poison only had a % chance to work and should have killed blarg at the end of the day. It didn't and so they night killed him?

turmoil tracked to Zipped while being naughty (role copping for example) and upon being found out claims the backup role as we were all looking for a reason for there not being two kills.

If anyone else was saying this, I would assume it was scum trying to crack the poe wider to re-introduce Turm.

I mean...maybe? It's funny because yesterday felt like a high level of frustration from Alex and I can't imagine how annoyed I'd be if my team got a red check, killed by a vig, and an extra poison kill failed but I read the frustration as Wiz suddenly dying when they probably thought he was in a good spot. I guess that could also account for why Blarg "felt unwell" instead of just being told he was poisoned. It's out there though, I'm not sure I can jump to that world.

 

[Aeleus]

Turmoil claimed to have not read the game specific rules but was the first to chat mechanics with Fran, when fran called him out on this he never answered AFAIR

So far he and natiko are the only roles which didn't start with the ability to spend things on XP.

Why include a back up in a design with recurring roles? If zipped dies early, well that's what Febe is for and vice versa.

 

[Sorian]

Also just want a reminder that I think the whole ass scum team has shaded Muffin and not in a way that reads to me as a bus

You two deserve a medal if that was theater lol

These two things kind of encapsulate a crazy world I could see. Maybe Muffin wanted to be offered up for town cred early for lack of engagement or something and everyone on scum just used him as their bus.

 

[Sorian]

I feel like Zipped shutting down worlds with what I want to say but if it's Turm then I think I lose this game for us because I don't know if I can convince myself to go there. The one compelling thing in that post is the back up thing. It is a good shout that he is the only one with a role like the neutrals but the mechanics surrounding everything tells me he is just telling the truth.

 

[Aeleus]

If anyone else was saying this, I would assume it was scum trying to crack the poe wider to re-introduce Turm.

I am trying to widen my own POE because I'm still looking for a JOAT poisoner and currently just you, melon and zipped fit that criteria.
- Zipped red checked malus
- I've been town reading melon the whole game and today's performance has felt incredibly genuine.

So my last option is you but I'm really not comfortable sitting on that read, especially as I had you paired with chuggs and your recent interactions are like world class scum play if you two are teamed.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Turmoil claimed to have not read the game specific rules but was the first to chat mechanics with Fran, when fran called him out on this he never answered AFAIR

So far he and natiko are the only roles which didn't start with the ability to spend things on XP.

Why include a back up in a design with recurring roles? If zipped dies early, well that's what Febe is for and vice versa.

My issue with Turm as scum is based on three knowns
1: is that we only had a poison death night 2
2: Turm was tracked directly to me
3: I didn’t die and nothing in my role indicates that I would not have died if someone had attacked me that night.

the addition of a now confirmed scum player saying “ we have X a vest and that could have been the reason for the lack of the NK”. That gambit doesn’t make sense unless you are trying to eliminate another player by bringing the POE back onto them. @melonrabbit the Wizard says they gave you something, remind me on what was given? Post 2701 by the search function

 

[Aeleus]

My issue with Turm as scum is based on three knowns
1: is that we only had a poison death night 2
2: Turm was tracked directly to me
3: I didn’t die and nothing in my role indicates that I would not have died if someone had attacked me that night.

the addition of a now confirmed scum player saying “ we have X a vest and that could have been the reason for the lack of the NK”. That gambit doesn’t make sense unless you are trying to eliminate another player by bringing the POE back onto them. @melonrabbit the Wizard says they gave you something, remind me on what was given? Post 2701 by the search function

He claimed to give them chainmail

 

[Chuggernaut]

You didn't just push me. That was kinda a step beyond over things I have very little control over.

And making assumptions on my feelings or interest in this game which I felt was uncalled and asked you stop and solve this together and you continued.That's what I took issue with and made this unfun.

If you'd now like to solve together we can move on from this and attempt to make sense of all this.

Melon I’ve been trying to get you to solve with me since day 1 and you keep shading me about things that I can easily answer instead of just asking me and lying about things I said.

You get one damn day getting pushed and you treat me like garbage for it. I’m giving you space to solve if you want to do that literally right now, so let me say this as politely as I can. If you’re town, back the hell up because I’m about a post away from leaving this whole community

 

[Sorian]

I am trying to widen my own POE because I'm still looking for a JOAT poisoner and currently just you, melon and zipped fit that criteria.
- Zipped red checked malus
- I've been town reading melon the whole game and today's performance has felt incredibly genuine.

So my last option is you but I'm really not comfortable sitting on that read, especially as I had you paired with chuggs and your recent interactions are like world class scum play if you two are teamed.

I think the issue is more that you’ve trapped yourself in this evolution vs JOAT dichotomy and you are assuming that scum would only fake claim as the type they are. I agree that one of the two scum left must be the “evolution” type because it makes no sense for scum to not have that typing when town does but nothing is stopping scum from claiming JOAt powers when they were evolution or vice versa

 

[Chuggernaut]

These two things kind of encapsulate a crazy world I could see. Maybe Muffin wanted to be offered up for town cred early for lack of engagement or something and everyone on scum just used him as their bus.

Okay be real, would you do this. Because in a game like this cred goes about as far as a cop check. Like if a scum partner asked me to do this on day 2 instead of replacing out I would actually be kind of annoyed

 

[Sorian]

Can you two separate for a few hours? Like melon, you don’t need to respond to that post because no matter how you word it, you are going to escalate. Chuggs, melon’s last post was fine, it didn’t need the aggression back. I get that on your side it feels like you got punished for just playing the game and you are right in feeling that way but I think it’s too fresh and you two are just going to think the other is picking when they might not be.

 

[Sorian]

Okay be real, would you do this. Because in a game like this cred goes about as far as a cop check. Like if a scum partner asked me to do this on day 2 instead of replacing out I would actually be kind of annoyed

I have been in this situation so yes. When I offer a theory like that it’s usually because I’ve experienced it and yes I did find it annoying at the time but it ended up working because we did dodge cop checks so it ended up being whatever

 

[Chuggernaut]

I feel like Zipped shutting down worlds with what I want to say but if it's Turm then I think I lose this game for us because I don't know if I can convince myself to go there. The one compelling thing in that post is the back up thing. It is a good shout that he is the only one with a role like the neutrals but the mechanics surrounding everything tells me he is just telling the truth.

Don’t put that on you. I’m considering it but I don’t think I could vote there either and that’s probably where most people fall here. If it’s that world I think we’re just going to have to accept that we got really unlucky with the way the night actions fell

 

[Chuggernaut]

I have been in this situation so yes. When I offer a theory like that it’s usually because I’ve experienced it and yes I did find it annoying at the time but it ended up working because we did dodge cop checks so it ended up being whatever

Well if that is the world we didn’t exactly do a great job following up on it when the claim came out. Like again, you should try reading that day phase and stuff following that and I know this probably doesn’t mean much with me being the one involved, but I really do not think we read as paired

 

[turmoil7]

Ok, I solved the game.

Who hasn't been voted by a single scum player all this time?

Yes, that's right. It's Ty4on.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

Vote: Ty4on

 

[Muffin]

I'm honestly at a loss what to say at this point if these are the theories.

Like only thing I feel I can say is, if my role actually did more than gossiping, I would definitely have cared more about xp, and you should know that about me. I like using my roles if I think they can do shit and with town gossip I just dont feel that way

At least if I was scum I could try to use it like I did back in the game where I was in Illuminati chat and try pocketing someone. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable trying that. Even better if it did something else as well

 

[Hedin]

==== DAY 6 VOTES ====
Day Start

Chuggernaut (2 votes)
melonrabbit - #3,427 #3,563
Aeleus - #3,534
Chuggernaut - #3,601

Ty4on (1 votes)
turmoil7 - #3,636

melonrabbit (1 votes)
Muffin - #3,399
Sorian - #3,511 #3,578
Chuggernaut - #3,523 #3,601

Sorian (0 votes)
melonrabbit - #3,563 #3,580

Not voting: Sorian, Zippedpinhead, melonrabbit, Ty4on, nin1000

Post Counts:
melonrabbit: 61 Chuggernaut: 52 Sorian: 44 Ty4on: 22 Aeleus: 15 Zippedpinhead: 13 nin1000: 12 turmoil7: 11 Muffin: 8

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

 

[Chuggernaut]

I'm honestly at a loss what to say at this point if these are the theories.

Like only thing I feel I can say is, if my role actually did more than gossiping, I would definitely have cared more about xp, and you should know that about me. I like using my roles if I think they can do shit and with town gossip I just dont feel that way

At least if I was scum I could try to use it like I did back in the game where I was in Illuminati chat and try pocketing someone. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable trying that. Even better if it did something else as well

Yeah and I’ve never really got that impression of you as a player either to be clear. Like you’re not out here dropping a hundred posts in a day phase, but there’s only actually a handful I think actually fit that and you’re not exactly a player I think would be scared of being a scum gossip

 

[Muffin]

The only hesitancy on melon I have right now is that I can not imagine who their partner might be, they're not looking partnered with anyone really

If it is somehow Chuggs I'm losing this, because I don't think so at all.

I feel like Aels claim is too elaborate to be fake and doesn't fit scum to me.

The only other ones I could even consider are Ty4on and turm. I think Ty played a bit more town towards day end yesterday, but that might have been a calm and competent scum reaction. I cooled down on him a little even before I exchanged words with Chuggs last night because I think melons vote looked that bad to me. I don't discount the possibility though.

Turm I have trouble reading, and the claim isn't bad.

 

[Aeleus]

I think the issue is more that you’ve trapped yourself in this evolution vs JOAT dichotomy and you are assuming that scum would only fake claim as the type they are. I agree that one of the two scum left must be the “evolution” type because it makes no sense for scum to not have that typing when town does but nothing is stopping scum from claiming JOAt powers when they were evolution or vice versa

Of the 'evolutions'
- I know my alignment
- Muffin has used two gossips
- Chuggs could technically be a JOAT but I highly doubt it, if he was I really don't think they'd have flavoured the power he used on natiko around a banana.
- Ty4on is possible but I don't like it, he claimed both the style of role and the rng mechanics so early...

I'm willing to put this aside for now though and look for who the other scum might be

Ok, I solved the game.

Who hasn't been voted by a single scum player all this time?

Yes, that's right. It's Ty4on.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

Vote: Ty4on

The same could be said about chuggernaut, me and zipped.

 

[turmoil7]

Damn, my theory ruined

Unvote

 

[Zippedpinhead]

@Chuggernaut if your role were a final fantasy character what character would they be?

@melonrabbit same question.

This is where my headspace is right now.

 

[Chuggernaut]

@Chuggernaut if your role were a final fantasy character what character would they be?

A random npc in a town probably

 

[Zippedpinhead]

A random npc in a town probably

that’s fair but thank you for responding.

 

[Chuggernaut]

Zipped before you fall down this hole I want you to keep in mind that we have a flipped Easter Bunny Sprite and a bunch of scum roles that I don’t think sound all that scummy if you were just to look at the role name. I don’t think this is going to land you on the answer you want it to and if it does it’s probably going to be more luck than anything

 

[melonrabbit]

He claimed to give them chainmail

That's what he said but I did not receive anything.

 

[nin1000]

Can I have some suggestions on who to go after ?
If melon turns out town. Who is next on your list of potential people ?
@Zippedpinhead @Chuggernaut

 

[melonrabbit]

Or at least I received no notification.

 

[Muffin]

I did do some introspection and I mean this in a purely observational way, not a "woe is me" way.

I should have probably replaced out early since the lack of energy I've acquired since last time playing a competent game of mafia evidently does not translate well into playing now, it irritates both me and others to the point where I feel I made it a bit harder on town to solve this than it should be.

 

[melonrabbit]

@Chuggernaut if your role were a final fantasy character what character would they be?

@melonrabbit same question.

This is where my headspace is right now.

I don't believe there is a direct FF counterpart for Rogue. They seem to overlap with Thevies. So I guess someone like Yuffie would be closest.

 

[Muffin]

I wouldnt even know what character a gossip would translate to.

Like a FFT orator?

 

[Muffin]

No, they can actually do stuff with their talking now that I think about it.

 

[Muffin]

Did I kill the discussion or are we just equally confused now

 

[Sorian]

I've been confused all day but I've had to focus on work a bit more so I've mostly just been reading especially since I don't have much new to add.

 

[nin1000]

Did I kill the discussion or are we just equally confused now

confused and hurting our teammates

 

[turmoil7]

Whoever is scum here I think you are doing an A+ game.

vote: Sorian

I think the weak hider claim is the one I buy the less. Wiz and Alex were probably bussing for towncred for when Sorian finally flipped.

 

[Hedin]

==== DAY 6 VOTES ====
Day Start

Chuggernaut (2 votes)
melonrabbit - #3,427 #3,563
Aeleus - #3,534
Chuggernaut - #3,601

Sorian (1 votes)
melonrabbit - #3,563 #3,580
turmoil7 - #3,657

melonrabbit (1 votes)
Muffin - #3,399
Sorian - #3,511 #3,578
Chuggernaut - #3,523 #3,601

Ty4on (0 votes)
turmoil7 - #3,636 #3,642

Not voting: Sorian, Zippedpinhead, melonrabbit, Ty4on, nin1000

Post Counts:
melonrabbit: 64 Chuggernaut: 55 Sorian: 45 Ty4on: 22 Aeleus: 16 Zippedpinhead: 15 nin1000: 14 Muffin: 13 turmoil7: 13

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

 

[turmoil7]

I don't think Ael is scum because the day phase before I used my T3 to heal Zipped he was trying to stop me from getting free EXP by voting for already caught malus. As scum he probably would had been paranoid about what I was going to do with all that exp and probably advice for using a strong kill or roleblock me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is thrown another town read to Ael

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Can I have some suggestions on who to go after ?
If melon turns out town. Who is next on your list of potential people ?
@Zippedpinhead @Chuggernaut

Assuming one of the top town dies (and it’s not me) then sorian if turm dies, chuggs if ael or nin dies.

If I die I think yall will want to vote out Turm to check his role but I strongly disagree with that. If Ty or Muffin dies I think that’s a town clear that leaves just two spots for possible scum (I.e. melon not scum but still two scum people)

Regardless of who is scum, I feel like they are playing very well

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Suffice it to say I don’t believe I live past tonight, because scum really doesn’t want me to use my abilities.

 

[Zippedpinhead]

I don't believe there is a direct FF counterpart for Rogue. They seem to overlap with Thevies. So I guess someone like Yuffie would be closest.

You mean treasure hunter right? (Locke Cole from FF6). Thank you for responding

 

[Sorian]

Whoever is scum here I think you are doing an A+ game.

vote: Sorian

I think the weak hider claim is the one I buy the less. Wiz and Alex were probably bussing for towncred for when Sorian finally flipped.

I’m sorry but this isn’t it, Wizard spent so much time setting me up as his next mislynch, I am pretty sure he was going to go hard in on me the day he got shot. It is very clear that he was spending each day shading his next few possible mislynches.

 

[Ty4on]

Ok, I solved the game.

Who hasn't been voted by a single scum player all this time?

Yes, that's right. It's Ty4on.

Sometimes the simplest answer is the correct one.

Vote: Ty4on

The same could be said about chuggernaut, me and zipped.

Well actually...

I'm not sure that I vibe with the Chuggs or Turms votes - so far they both feel to me like they're trying to advance things, if from varying angles.

Blarg aside, I feel like I've got the least to tie to Cap and Muffin at the moment - I would have added Nat and Malus, but they've been chipping in recently. Also hoping to hear more from Geno as he catches up.

For now, I'm going to put down a vote for Ty:
VOTE: Ty4on
This would, admittedly be for an info flip - if it were an option I'd prefer it if he were investigated, but if the XP prices in the sample PM and my PM are anything to go by, I don't think anyone's going to be in a position to claim a checking shot until N2. I think flipping Ty could add some context to Neon and the comments on player partnerships. I don't think Neon would have suggested that if the two of them were scum mates.

 

[turmoil7]

I’m sorry but this isn’t it, Wizard spent so much time setting me up as his next mislynch, I am pretty sure he was going to go hard in on me the day he got shot. It is very clear that he was spending each day shading his next few possible mislynches.

I swear someone (you?) previously said that Wiz wasn't afraid to bus...

 

[Ty4on]

I swear someone (you?) previously said that Wiz wasn't afraid to bus...

Probably me. He bussed Alexem a fair bit D1 and D2.

 

[Ty4on]

But very differently to Sorian. Which makes sense either way because Sorian and Alexem are two very different players.

 

[Ty4on]

I mean that response is still weird to me cause it feels like she didn't really want to talk about Sorian and only explored them in relation to Ty.
---
I think Alexem's vote has the least conviction of what I've seen so far and his reads don't make me feel better. I think that's a solid pick for today.
Vote: Alexem
---
I'm starting work now I'll try to dip in and out between now and EoD but I don't expect to read a bunch more of the day.

It’s interesting to Alexem fell out of contention cause I feel like that’s a wagon where the sentiment showed more interest than translated into votes. I could put some names and quotes here if I wasn’t lazy on mobile but you get the gist

After the latter post he followed the winds and voted Captain instead. Classic scum positioning in retrospect, but the D1 vote is a little aggressive since Alex was a plausible wagon.

 

[Chuggernaut]

I did do some introspection and I mean this in a purely observational way, not a "woe is me" way.

I should have probably replaced out early since the lack of energy I've acquired since last time playing a competent game of mafia evidently does not translate well into playing now, it irritates both me and others to the point where I feel I made it a bit harder on town to solve this than it should be.

you’re good man. I’m glad you played

 

[Chuggernaut]

I'm truly at a loss here. I keep thinking nin might have some wacky godfather role, but I think he claimed IC as his tier 3 and honestly would rather just let him get that and use that

 

[Ty4on]

I'm never gonna play in a way yall like. I ain't here to please.

Town:
Mel(on) - def a real one.

Leaning to town:
Fran - feels like the real problem solver and trying to generate helpful engagement from ppl. This is how I remember Fran as town to be.
Sorian - seems frustrated and tired of town being so town-y and I can relate. He came away best from round 1 with chuggs and again with (limited) pressure from sneeks.
Wiz - Having a bit of fun with some of the quest and mechanic talk but I feel it's from a genuine place.
Neon - Idk if I played with them before but I like how they handled themselves under pressure and their reads felt like a real attempt to solve.
Alexem - not a super strong lean at all. but has done some solving to separate from the null stack of coasters.

Probably not town but whatever:
Cap - a lot of spiraling for a joke but I do think something is here and I so want to see how it plays out.
Ty - that read list felt like from the future with all the support and backing for ppl and just didn't describe the d1 we've had at all. I do think the slip was an honest mistake or an assumption made based on their own role but I don't think that automatically makes Ty scum. Maybe a xp thief ?

Feeling bad about outside the trio (Chuggs, Sneeks and HP):
TWE - mostly vibes.
Febe - flying more under the radar that I would expect for Town!Febe.
Turm - active in the beginning but I don't feel like they're doing much to solve.

After sleeping on it I feel slightly better about Chuggs, worse about Sneeks and the exact same about HP who gave me little else to work with.

This stack of null at the bottom sucks:

Geno
Muffin
Blarg
Nin
Zipped
Natiko


Where I'm at rn.

So here it is. Completely forgot malus and put two scum in the town section. That just screams uninformed to me.

Before you shit on melon for townreading scum remember that A) so did you too probably and B) melon managed to townread Neon.

 

[Chuggernaut]

Here's the thing I can't wrap my head around if it's scum Ty. If this is town Melon he really did not want to go for Melon in a way I really don't think he needed to do as scum. Like at this point it's clear I think we're all past it, but even earlier he probably could have gotten a way with hopping on when it was picking up steam and didn't

 

[Ty4on]

Maybe I should get to that D1 "fight" between Wizard and Sorian. In retrospect it was a lot tamer than what I remember it as.

Spoiler

It's odd to me that Sorian seems frustrated here, like he wants more people to pull on the Ty thread but doesn't want to do it himself.
If the "good" play is to not tunnel hard on a perceived minor slip why praise Geno for coming in and doing just that?

Sorian and Neon are the most bad vibes for me right now.
Neon I could see maybe getting ahead of the the Ty flip in the way someone with scum team insight might.
Sorian I think I clash with as he has a very aggressive playstyle which puts me on edge but in this game it feels loud and hollow to me.

You're right, I wanted someone to pull on the thread. It's not worth it to me because it resolves itself with some flips but the fact that no one went for it is weird in itself. Also, playing well or poorly doesn't always mean playing town or scum. My praise on Geno is half joking because everyone's thoughts were already out there and I have no way of knowing if he was following the thread this whole time and decided to finally post because someone noticed his absence or if he really did forget and that was an honest first reaction but, in the moment, last night I would have townread the "bad" play of tunneling on a potential honest mistake because it was clear the room did not want to do that and on day 1, its easier for scum to control the flow of the game since they have all the info and we have none. That's also why I came out liking TWE since he at least went for it.

The prodding here is okay but I'm looking at Sorian on Chuggs and it feels forced to me like the vote comes first and the justification follows.
I also find it notable that the push on Chuggs is a defense of Neon, the low hanging fruit angle feels like a stretch to me.
Vote: Sorian

I'm not sure how you arrive at the vote coming before the justification when I was already shading and sussing Chuggs all over the place ever since last night. I'll give you that the vote is a defense on Neon considering it is since I'm voting for Chugg's based on his bad (fake) read on Neon but my throughline of how I got to that vote is extremely clear if you were reading the thread.

For me the coyness feels NAI since Chuggs is a chatterbox and I can see it just wanting to try to sit in the uncomfortable silence since it can move the game more even if it means having to bite your tongue a bit. I feel like scum taking a wait and see approach just don't bother to comment that is what they are doing and draw attention to it. Maybe I just find that concept of sitting on an idea relatable cause I struggle with the keeping quiet part too sometimes.
I did go back and check your reaction to the Neon vote and it's fairly clear you disagree but the actual pressure on Chuggs for it comes later with the vote which is what makes it feel more backwards to me.

Like Neon gets brought up more here a while after Chuggs has voted and then your next few posts are digging through it.

I have less Sorian experience but it seems like he does the headstrong grandstanding bit as both alignments

A couple of Sorian mentions that aren't related, but kinda interesting:

Spoiler

I would leave Blarg alone for the simple reason I find his post style amusing and I am not sorry about this.
---
It bothers me that Sneeks post #291 on Sorian and Ty seems to lean scummy on Sorian but Sneeks today has no pressure on Sorian and pretty much omits mentioning Sorian until throwing them into a town-ish list.
I usually like Sneeks more than I have so far, the effort is coming through (reluctantly) but I also find it's the kind of content that is easy enough to fake as scum
---
melons reads don't make much sense to me (I don't see whatever triangle in Chuggs-Sneeks-HP) but I do think they are on their own.

Sawneeks' post #291:

Does a scum!sorian go for pointing out the 'wait and see people' as scummy on a scum!ty discussion this early? Nah probably not.

Does a scum!sorian do this to a town!ty? :thinking:
Possible, especially knowing that Ty isn't scum gives him the cushion to fall back on if the Ty thing stumbles out of control and he dies. Sorian can be a "I told you so" and lock in on those few people he pointed out. Those few people likely having 1 scum in it 'to be safe' and hedge his bets he can keep that buddy alive.
I also personally dislike not caring for Ty's alignment in this whole thing as it does change things. Scum have and can be confident and bold in the early game, but typically not to a fellow scummate.

Tl:Dr sorian and ty likely aren't wolves together. I don't like throwing away Ty's alignment in the equation since the 'tell' he is looking for is kind of a toss up.
Dunno if I'd vote him today but I'd keep an eye on him once people start flipping (aka ty, chuggs, and maybe wiz/febe)

I actually asked Sneeks about that and she said this:

i didnt posit sorian as Town there because him being Town in that scenario doesn't do anything to change my read of Ty. Basically, if Ty flips Town then Sorian could be Scum or Town. If Ty flips Scum then Sorian isn't scum. Reversing that and Sorian flipping first as either alignment leads to the same conclusions. It was also based around what Ty is because he is the main question. His alignment kinda helps shed light on others.

I mean that response is still weird to me cause it feels like she didn't really want to talk about Sorian and only explored them in relation to Ty.
---
I think Alexem's vote has the least conviction of what I've seen so far and his reads don't make me feel better. I think that's a solid pick for today.
Vote: Alexem
---
I'm starting work now I'll try to dip in and out between now and EoD but I don't expect to read a bunch more of the day.

A bit interesting he finds Sawneeks scummy for not pushing Sorian more.

 

[Muffin]

So here it is. Completely forgot malus and put two scum in the town section. That just screams uninformed to me.

Before you shit on melon for townreading scum remember that A) so did you too probably and B) melon managed to townread Neon.

None of this is alignment indicative to me. Some people aren't afraid to townread some of their teammates. I haven't seen anything that screams to me that melon would never do that.

 

[Ty4on]

None of this is alignment indicative to me. Some people aren't afraid to townread some of their teammates. I haven't seen anything that screams to me that melon would never do that.

You're absolutely right, I just don't think melon is the type of person to do that. If she's powerwolfing here I've missed something, but that doesn't feel like the gameplay here.
Also from the way she worded those reads I don't feel like she knows anything else about those slots.

 

[Chuggernaut]

The one thing that I always find myself screaming from spec when town gets stuck like this is look for who's actually solving. Ty feels like he's solving, Muffin feels like he's solving, Sorian feels like he's solving, Ael feels like their solving.

Not everyone does and I would say for some I land on that being pretty NAI, but I keep thinking back to how he was posting pre-claim and Turms has fallen off hard. I wish I could tell you I have some crazy case here with a way to explain what the hell happened with Zipped, and it's very possible that he's just town coasting off the claim, but he's been in coast mode for a while now and that's just where he was at earlier in the game at all. It's purely vibes, but the vibes think this is scum.

 

[Chuggernaut]

I also just full stop don't think I can actually push this through and I've just kind of resigned to losing if that's the world, but I think that's where I'm landing right now. I have no idea who he could be paired with

 

[Ty4on]

Ok so turms is confirmed to have targeted Zipped when he didn't die.
Surprisingly good look considering nobody else claimed to save him, but it could ofc be scum doing something else.

How many protection roles have flipped? I guess my role is a pseudo protect.

 

[Ty4on]

I also just full stop don't think I can actually push this through and I've just kind of resigned to losing if that's the world, but I think that's where I'm landing right now. I have no idea who he could be paired with

Never let filthy scum win.

 

[Chuggernaut]

Ok so turms is confirmed to have targeted Zipped when he didn't die.
Surprisingly good look considering nobody else claimed to save him, but it could ofc be scum doing something else.

How many protection roles have flipped? I guess my role is a pseudo protect.

I don't think it's a matter of too much protection or what not because he's claiming backup so it doesn't actually matter. I will say, kind of insane that mafia is just kind of letting that role hang out because that's a lot of protects, and I don't think we've seen a lot of targets that have felt like doctor dodges

 

[Ty4on]

I don't think it's a matter of too much protection or what not because he's claiming backup so it doesn't actually matter. I will say, kind of insane that mafia is just kind of letting that role hang out because that's a lot of protects, and I don't think we've seen a lot of targets that have felt like doctor dodges

Well, Zipped is still alive, but point taken.

 

[Chuggernaut]

Well, Zipped is still alive, but point taken.

Yeah that's the big wrinkle here

 

[Ty4on]

Mentions of turm by scum

Day 1

Spoiler

The Wizard
#450
#842

malus
#416
#436
#759
#771
#783


Alexem
#448
#760
#793

Day 2

Spoiler

The Wizard
#1,297
#1,638

malus
#1,351
#1,733

Alexem
#1,149
#1,346
#1,630

I'm too lazy to do the other days and need some sleep.

 

[Sorian]

Maybe I should get to that D1 "fight" between Wizard and Sorian. In retrospect it was a lot tamer than what I remember it as.

A couple of Sorian mentions that aren't related, but kinda interesting:

Spoiler

Sawneeks' post #291:

A bit interesting he finds Sawneeks scummy for not pushing Sorian more.

Out of curiosity, why are you framing that Wiz and me thing as a fight? The only fight I feel like I had on day 1 was with Chuggs. I didn't even remember this interaction until I re-read your post.

 

[Sorian]

I don't think it's a matter of too much protection or what not because he's claiming backup so it doesn't actually matter. I will say, kind of insane that mafia is just kind of letting that role hang out because that's a lot of protects, and I don't think we've seen a lot of targets that have felt like doctor dodges

I agree with this though, scum isn't dodging doctors. Like I still assume they have a role cop because Fran is kind of a targeted strike when you think about it. He had a watcher shot still sitting there, that honestly sounds like it might have been the most dangerous PR still unactivated considering how strong watcher is.

 

[Ty4on]

Out of curiosity, why are you framing that Wiz and me thing as a fight? The only fight I feel like I had on day 1 was with Chuggs. I didn't even remember this interaction until I re-read your post.

Because I remembered it as more than that. Not quite sure why since it was a few days ago (literally an eternity). I first went through it when I made an ISO of Wizard after he died and it made an impression of being more than that. I might've mixed my impression of the back and forth with your D3 post here and thought there had been more going on.

 

[Sorian]

3 people (including myself) have basically said "what if Turm tho?" and everyone is too scared to consider that world so I'll put myself out there as the brave one. Clearly something weird is going on here, Turm is getting protected by the Zipped stuff but take a step back and consider his play and his claim. His play itself has been pretty weak the whole game, its all been coasting on this claim in the second half and being a background character in the first half. I still stand by my first day vote, that was very scum-like "I just need to participate play." Even more than that, his claim is the odd man out here. Like Coppa realistically has the weirdest town role but even his followed the same format as everyone else, town or scum. Turm is the one role that does not follow the format of either of the two teams. I don't think it's today. I honestly think I'm at Ty right now (I'm not ready to vote that, I just got home and I'm mostly frazzled so I'll probably change my mind 3 more times tonight) but I think Turm has to be in the poe, I don't think we can just sit on "if it's X then we've lost"

And yes, I know I'm doing that with Ael but I just more can't see the world where Ael is scum.

 

[melonrabbit]

You mean treasure hunter right? (Locke Cole from FF6). Thank you for responding

Seems more like thief/ninja.

 

[Muffin]

Well I will fully disclose my role because I think it will bring a valuable POV towards Fran's claim.

I'm the trainee(backup), I inherited the role of the first townie to die(Neon's).

Why is this relevant? The only game I've played with a backup(don't remember the name, probably MafiEra?), it had a backup for town and one for scum. Makes sense to balance the game for both sides.

That means there could be a scum player who inherited malus' role.

So Fran's tracker claim wouldn't be a 100% clear. (Although rn I am strongly leaning town on him)

I now raise my eyebrow at the fact that Turm def knows his role can generally be scum to the point that he mentions it. Especially after Alexem tried to openly do a town bomb claim when it was just that as scum in the end.

 

[Chuggernaut]

3 people (including myself) have basically said "what if Turm tho?" and everyone is too scared to consider that world so I'll put myself out there as the brave one. Clearly something weird is going on here, Turm is getting protected by the Zipped stuff but take a step back and consider his play and his claim. His play itself has been pretty weak the whole game, its all been coasting on this claim in the second half and being a background character in the first half. I still stand by my first day vote, that was very scum-like "I just need to participate play." Even more than that, his claim is the odd man out here. Like Coppa realistically has the weirdest town role but even his followed the same format as everyone else, town or scum. Turm is the one role that does not follow the format of either of the two teams. I don't think it's today. I honestly think I'm at Ty right now (I'm not ready to vote that, I just got home and I'm mostly frazzled so I'll probably change my mind 3 more times tonight) but I think Turm has to be in the poe, I don't think we can just sit on "if it's X then we've lost"

And yes, I know I'm doing that with Ael but I just more can't see the world where Ael is scum.

I was about to fire something pretty similar to this off. A role cop would make sense as to why Zipped was targeted, but didn't die and yeah the counterargument to this is obviously the easter bunny role, but a backup just doesn't really fit with what we've seen so far. Scum never really strongly pushed him as a target back when he was in the talks for that. The only thing that I think Turms has going for him is that we didn't have two kills that night, but him being alive just keeps getting weirder as time goes on.

I don't think it's Ty. I get he's been on you all game, and that's going to probably raise some eyebrows on your end, but he seems like he's clearly trying to solve to me in a way that I think would be a struggle to fake. He's let a lot of pushes he easily could have jump on slip by in a way that just doesn't feel like scum would do. If we're talking strictly socials, Ty clears Turms for me and it isn't really close

 

[melonrabbit]

How do you feel about Ty today?

Muffin when you get a chance. Are you able to share you thoughts on Ty today?

 

[Muffin]

Muffin when you get a chance. Are you able to share you thoughts on Ty today?

The only hesitancy on melon I have right now is that I can not imagine who their partner might be, they're not looking partnered with anyone really

If it is somehow Chuggs I'm losing this, because I don't think so at all.

I feel like Aels claim is too elaborate to be fake and doesn't fit scum to me.

The only other ones I could even consider are Ty4on and turm. I think Ty played a bit more town towards day end yesterday, but that might have been a calm and competent scum reaction. I cooled down on him a little even before I exchanged words with Chuggs last night because I think melons vote looked that bad to me. I don't discount the possibility though.

Turm I have trouble reading, and the claim isn't bad.

 

[Hedin]

==== DAY 6 VOTES ====
Day Start

Chuggernaut (2 votes)
melonrabbit - #3,427 #3,563
Aeleus - #3,534
Chuggernaut - #3,601

Sorian (1 votes)
melonrabbit - #3,563 #3,580
turmoil7 - #3,657

melonrabbit (1 votes)
Muffin - #3,399
Sorian - #3,511 #3,578
Chuggernaut - #3,523 #3,601

Ty4on (0 votes)
turmoil7 - #3,636 #3,642

Not voting: Sorian, Zippedpinhead, melonrabbit, Ty4on, nin1000

Post Counts:
melonrabbit: 66 Chuggernaut: 63 Sorian: 49 Ty4on: 34 Zippedpinhead: 18 Muffin: 16 Aeleus: 16 turmoil7: 15 nin1000: 14

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

 

[melonrabbit]

Thanks @Muffin

 

[melonrabbit]

Okay I punched out some candles irl like monk even though that's not my role in game.

Ready to make some dinner and consider things.

I'm not sure what to think of Blarg's claim of unwell.

 

[melonrabbit]

Some random thoughts. And bare with me (as always) I'm on mobile and I'm finding outer mafia more difficult to scroll and navigate than Era.

1. Someone (maybe Sorian) said Double Vote was only a town ability. Is that truth or meta? Or our we just thinking it'd be too over powered with the Hated/Loved ability we've seen scum flip with?

2. Second a janitor role was mentioned at one or two points as a possible counter-role to TWE. iirc I believe Alex might have been one of the ones. I am assuming that role is someone that cleans up the night kills. Does that typical mean we'd just something like "X died overnight" and nothing more ? Or can it be more elaborate than that?
2b. Can someone help me find the post where TWE takes credit for the flyer when Blarg died? I can't seem to find where he confirmed that.

3. I'm sure I had a third one. One second.

 

[Chuggernaut]

Some random thoughts. And bare with me (as always) I'm on mobile and I'm finding outer mafia more difficult to scroll and navigate than Era.

1. Someone (maybe Sorian) said Double Vote was only a town ability. Is that truth or meta? Or our we just thinking it'd be too over powered with the Hated/Loved ability we've seen scum flip with?

2. Second a janitor role was mentioned at one or two points as a possible counter-role to TWE. iirc I believe Alex might have been one of the ones. I am assuming that role is someone that cleans up the night kills. Does that typical mean we'd just something like "X died overnight" and nothing more ? Or can it be more elaborate than that?
2b. Can someone help me find the post where TWE takes credit for the flyer when Blarg died? I can't seem to find where he confirmed that.

3. I'm sure I had a third one. One second.

1. I don't think it always is, but like all of his PR's seem to be pretty town based. Giving scum a double vote and apparently an override is kind of nuts.

2. I floated the idea of it, but would basically erase the flip, yeah. The only person that humored it was Alex so I'm not exactly pressed about it existing.

2b. His role says he did and he couldn't hint that he was the one writing them.

 

[Sorian]

Some random thoughts. And bare with me (as always) I'm on mobile and I'm finding outer mafia more difficult to scroll and navigate than Era.

1. Someone (maybe Sorian) said Double Vote was only a town ability. Is that truth or meta? Or our we just thinking it'd be too over powered with the Hated/Loved ability we've seen scum flip with?

2. Second a janitor role was mentioned at one or two points as a possible counter-role to TWE. iirc I believe Alex might have been one of the ones. I am assuming that role is someone that cleans up the night kills. Does that typical mean we'd just something like "X died overnight" and nothing more ? Or can it be more elaborate than that?
2b. Can someone help me find the post where TWE takes credit for the flyer when Blarg died? I can't seem to find where he confirmed that.

3. I'm sure I had a third one. One second.

I'm not planning to make any other grand posts tonight, I've been re-reading yesterday a couple times because it still bothers me but I'll talk about it in the morning after I sleep on it.

I decided to post though because it wasn't me that said double vote is town only. That could easily be scum as well. I did say that an override is town only though and I believe that is what nin has as his tier 3.

Janitor can either alter the content of a role flip, i.e. just write out a fake role flip for someone or yes, just completely erase it so we just get "Sorian has died" and no role flip.

TWE never took credit for the flier, his role says he was not allowed to confirm or claim it.

 

[nin1000]

I’m just. Lost.
Sorry for no grand posts or even joke posts. I don’t want to clutter up the thread with it, since everyone seems to be trying to figure this stuff out like myself

 

[melonrabbit]

I decided to post though because it wasn't me that said double vote is town only. That could easily be scum as well. I did say that an override is town only though and I believe that is what nin has as his tier 3.

Sorry I got Double Vote and Override confused.