anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
WYD Fate I believed in you.
Ten Forward
- Thread starter Fanto
- Start date
WYD Fate I believed in you.
lokiduck
Awww yiss mothafuckin' breadcrumbs
It always hurts when town's last hope gets swepped in with the rest of town
But it's okay Shirou, this final has been hard on every body.
There's always that small chance town still figures it out before time is up, but it definitely sounds like town is going today.
But it's okay Shirou, this final has been hard on every body.
There's always that small chance town still figures it out before time is up, but it definitely sounds like town is going today.
Yeah, it's looking like it's going to swing to scum. Good effort by town and I know how tough it is not knowing what the hell's going on.
Also big props to the remaining scum. Both HP and malus have been called out as scummy numerous times, so they have to be doing something right to survive so long. Town towning will only get you so far. So good job on them thriving in the confusion.
Also big props to the remaining scum. Both HP and malus have been called out as scummy numerous times, so they have to be doing something right to survive so long. Town towning will only get you so far. So good job on them thriving in the confusion.
It's interesting, I should take notes for my own sake in the future because it's easier to see clearly from the outside. Seeing a lot of working backwards to their conclusions which I know I'm guilty of. Definitely think I need to work on my analysis personally after this game.
This is an interesting one from Vere because if you look at the votes, these are indeed the three people off wagon. But it misses the fact that HP and malus did not vote by the end of that day. LP's doing something similar by assuming all the D1 wagons were town and then working backwards and inferring from there.
Chuggernaut
HONK HONK MF
Poor Fate. He’s real close to just having this thing solved but can’t really do much when town is working backwards to make him fit as scum.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Fate almost has it.
Reminds me a ton of his final day in fate/stay.
solves the game but town read scum just convinced the rest that it isn’t possible
Reminds me a ton of his final day in fate/stay.
solves the game but town read scum just convinced the rest that it isn’t possible
Yep Fate is almost there, like when he said HP and malus are playing shit town games I keep waiting for the light bulb to go off there to get him the rest of the way. The problem is that even when he gets it (I think he will get there) I don't think he'll be able to convince the others.
weemadarthur
Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
I was excited someone quoted me, hoping they were going to vote out HP.
But no, it was a flavor comment. And nobody left has a clue about flavor. :cry:
But no, it was a flavor comment. And nobody left has a clue about flavor. :cry:
anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
I’m going to really feel bad for town if they miss today and go into tonight thinking they still have a chance tomorrow.
jman1954goat
Linked the Fire
Ephi Chill.
My Character is being Assassinated!
My Character is being Assassinated!
anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Natiko making a play of the game, correctly identifying that HP is Scum and was supposed to get bussed the day the vote swung to Royal.
But instead of voting for HP, he votes for Ephi.
When I flipped town, I thought it was obvious that town would test my claim of blocking HP. If I had known that wasn’t guaranteed, maybe I don’t even role reveal and take my chances.
As this has gone on, I just feel more and more responsible for town’s self-doubt eroding confidence in what seemed generally accepted earlier.
Maybe they end up turning on LP instead, but I feel like there’s a chance HP gets voted without that distraction.
A Wild Shark Appears
Our resident acupuncturist
Welp
anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Not a single vote for scum and they split their votes. Just beautifully executed.
Ngl, genuinely a bit mad hp is probably not gonna die. Guy was obvious scum since d1 and never once tried to prove otherwise.
Ephidel
How do you do, fellow mafia?
I want to apologise to town overall for playing a game where I was repeatedly dodgy as fuck, and to Jman for scum reading you for nothing yet again (that's getting to be a habit, whoops), and to Random for throwing the game he left me due to inactivity. I had a family drama yesterday that left me babysitting forever and completely destroyed the time I'd intended to spend playing and chained into today where I was literally doing day end on the bus after work.
Considering how up my own backside I was being suspicious of Nat and Vere though the extra time still probably wouldn't have helped
It kinda hurts how many times I said "of course this can be scum play, it's working for him" with regards to HP though. God I wish I'd just asked Nat if he'd be willing to vote HP with me today if he was so sure we were both scum, I wrote the post, but I just didn't have it in me and deleted it to vote for him instead lol.
Would never have gone to malus though, even after staring at votes and going "damn, he's out of the way all the damn time"
I guess this game the lesson I learnt was the peril of being flavour blind.
I'm sorry Fate. You were right all along.
Considering how up my own backside I was being suspicious of Nat and Vere though the extra time still probably wouldn't have helped
It kinda hurts how many times I said "of course this can be scum play, it's working for him" with regards to HP though. God I wish I'd just asked Nat if he'd be willing to vote HP with me today if he was so sure we were both scum, I wrote the post, but I just didn't have it in me and deleted it to vote for him instead lol.
Would never have gone to malus though, even after staring at votes and going "damn, he's out of the way all the damn time"
I guess this game the lesson I learnt was the peril of being flavour blind.
I'm sorry Fate. You were right all along.
jman1954goat
Linked the Fire
No problem I'm just happy to have played with you again :)
jman1954goat
Linked the Fire
@Ephidel
The funny thing about your QUOTE from me being wishy washy was I was genuinely trying to get ATP and Wee to change my mind on HP. They believed so hard I wanted to see there point of view.
In general my new gameplan is to be open to being persuaded by the best argument and trusting players better than me if I dont come up with a rock solid Vote.
The funny thing about your QUOTE from me being wishy washy was I was genuinely trying to get ATP and Wee to change my mind on HP. They believed so hard I wanted to see there point of view.
In general my new gameplan is to be open to being persuaded by the best argument and trusting players better than me if I dont come up with a rock solid Vote.
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Yeah I'm not good at convincing people.
I won't policy vote low posters
Hp had 2nd highest posts day 1 and was scummy. If people didn't try to desperately save him this game may have gone differently.
weemadarthur
Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
I’m not sure if i should keep helping my neutral friends.
So far it doesn’t help me win :rofl:
So far it doesn’t help me win :rofl:
I mean every game is different, blarg never does anything day 1 and he won't be scum every game. You'll never get a lot of content from malus either. And royal was even less active in the 1 game I've played with him before and he was town in that.
Oh come on! Wee had fun.
I always want to do this but everytime I have its bit me in the ass. I still don’t know the right way to approach those players, low post/activity doesn't help town at all, but I feel like I'm wasting scum hunting time when we try to deal with them.
I mean I dont agree at all. He was way different from his game in the thing and he was exactly like his scum game in fate
I got lucky maybe in thst I had just played a scum game with him. But this was nothing like his town games imo
I got lucky maybe in thst I had just played a scum game with him. But this was nothing like his town games imo
A Wild Shark Appears
Our resident acupuncturist
Yeah I gotta disagree here. Town!HP doesn’t give up like he did this game.
His fake outrage at 2 votes was textbook fate 2 hp, he probably even apologised about it in scum chat lol
Fanto
Confirmed Town
There's a noticeable difference between Scummy inactivity and Townie inactivity in my experience, so it's mostly about trying to determine which is which.
I haven't got an answer btw, it's tough. Malus is someone ill always generally scum read because I can't get a handle on him either way.
A Wild Shark Appears
Our resident acupuncturist
It’s all about the charts lol
Sure but I know as town ive purposely ignored @s and quotes if I think the person asking isn't doing so in good faith or I feel I've already answered them
A Wild Shark Appears
Our resident acupuncturist
don’t ignore me ATP
jman1954goat
Linked the Fire
I know repeating yourself is hard but wee legit almost swayed me to Vote HP and if you would have thrown a couple of more arguments at me instead of blowing me off it's a good chance I fully scumread there.
I was pretty desperate to for guidance and it hurt being ignored by you.
Neki
Bought a book once
I mean it's better to reply and actually say that otherwise I'm assuming you're just purposely ignoring points you don't want to get seen for scummy replying to. Like at some point when you and Bojack were probing me on D2 I tried answering every point and Bojack basically came off as a hard tunnel based on his answers which makes sense because he had a red check for me. If I had not posted anything in response to any of the stuff you posted against me then it would have meant nothing for you or Bojack and there would have been nothing to work off of. Townie has to give a little here or we're just continue encouraging this kind of ignoring passive scum play.
jman1954goat
Linked the Fire
Like it's not your fault people didn't listen to you the first time ATP that's on us but repeating yourself/ framing arguments in different ways to get players on your side is kinda just part of the game.
Tbh I already knew I was gonna red check neki so that was another reason I wasn't going over the hp stuff again
I understand where you're coming from but there is just never gonna be a one size fits all, every situation is different.
I get malus but the frustrating part to me is hp. That i cannot square away.
Same, after awhile I just need to move the conversation on.
I continue to be mystified at him getting townread for the poker game.
Ephidel
How do you do, fellow mafia?
I was various combinations of flavour blind. He chose to play with the cop, nothing bad happened to either of them as a result, the officers play poker, I don't recall ever seeing a romulan do so, and even after it being proven otherwise I really was expecting a faction called the romulans to have, well, romulans in it
Sawneeks
little green dog
more than fair
anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
People continued to townread him for the same reason they saved him on Day 1, so it wasn’t just a single day failure of judgement.
People were trying to move votes off hp before he revealed his power though. Its a moot point now anyway.
weemadarthur
Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
And when did people in spec stop having fun? And most of the people in the game too [probably but i only skimmed the thread after]?
That’s right! When I died. :P
anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Moot for this game, but good to talk about for future games!
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Any spoilers for the night? Is it playing out exactly as scum wants?
Fanto
Confirmed Town
They decided to kill Vere, so he'll be joining us soon.
Verelios
Were-elios
Welp, god damn. When Ephi flipped I went HP is scum and I'm fucking stupid.
@Ephidel I'm sorry for scum reading you so hard. I felt awful when I saw your role questions.
@Randomless too, that was my bad.
@Ephidel I'm sorry for scum reading you so hard. I felt awful when I saw your role questions.
@Randomless too, that was my bad.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Very interesting choice, especially since Scum doesn’t know the doctor is shot based.
Verelios
Were-elios
I think Nat and Fate get it today. Even if they scumread the other, they'll know that since Ephi flipped we were fundamentally wrong on someone, and that points to the people coasting. IMO, LP is town, Nat and Fate are 50/50 coin flips and they KNOW they're town so that means the second scum is in either Malus or HP, and it's a decision that most of town could accept.
I would have went HP.
I would have went HP.
Ephidel
How do you do, fellow mafia?
Yes they do, Shirou told LP yesterday that he inherits any shots remaining and LP didn't call bullshit, so they know he was limited to start with.
But still an interesting choice.
Haha, it's fine, I was wrong about you too after all, and I thought your emotional feedback was just as bullshit XD
I'll hold off on force feeding you that self importance though, I think Hedin planned on holding you to a far heartier meal ;)
Alas, the bomb plan will probably carry them through regardless.
Ephidel
How do you do, fellow mafia?
Please no. From now on miserable people get unceremoniously murdered.
It's the only way.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Truth, this is the kinda play that only works once and next time it happens that person is getting out ASAP (likely instead of ANEX if it was this game)
Ephidel
How do you do, fellow mafia?
From the comfort of spec I genuinely can't understand why Nat isn't at least floating the idea of all voting Fate together. LP/Malus are saying they think it's Fate and him, yes, but Nat isn't scum reading either of them so there's no reason to not want to vote with them.
Sure it would be the wrong move in this game because it isn't Fate, but it would be an understandable one.
Sure it would be the wrong move in this game because it isn't Fate, but it would be an understandable one.
Verelios
Were-elios
It's because he could...but it would be very hard. Volo just needs 1 person to tip the scales before scum hammer and I don't blame Nat for not having the energy to make a case on others. It's ultimately just unfortunate.
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
Holy hell is LP trying to bait a scum with a vote/unvote gambit?
Zippedpinhead
Zip it!
That’s a dangerous game you playing there LP…
Verelios
Were-elios
Nowhere to go but up in this situation.
anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Imagine if he had baited a hammer on malus.
Verelios
Were-elios
GG everyone, @Natiko and @Lone_Prodigy were almost there but attrition got us. I think we were all just tired and a large part of that is owed to taking the full time yesterday but everyone did great.
GG everyone, you've all been amazing to play with
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
I role played scum so well I ended up being one.
weemadarthur
Mad as in angry, or mad as in crazy?
I also play my BEST scum games when I’m town. It’s unfortunate lol.
So admittedly I checked out from following the game after town killed anex, so it sounds like maybe it was to a more extreme degree here, but scum hp definitely played woe is me pity party in fate 2.
Natiko
Town's Friendly Neighborhood Serial Killer
I disagree that it doesn’t change the way you approach a game. Expectations can play an important role in what you can and can’t accept as mafia roles, and this being a “normal” role madness game didn’t really match up with the design itself.
I disagree that we should have to sit and metagame who reviewed a design.
Lmfao. Maybe you should’ve stuck to playing a mini mafia first like I suggested.
I was an asshole so I’ll hold the L, but let’s not act like you didn’t open the phase with a huge pretyped about why I was mafia l
Oh you mean the block on HP that Faddy was insistent should’ve got him flipped wasn’t even the direct reason the kill was stopped?
Fate deserves tons of kudos for keeping the correct people in his POE, but he also kept literally every other player minus LP in it and was happy to vote for them so it ultimately didn’t do much sadly.
I didn’t townread HP due to his role, I town read him because he was the counter wagon to mafia TWICE and played so dejectedly if I’d been mafia with him I would’ve outright been telling him to drop out of the game because I was sick of dealing with that from a teammate.
Tell me who was gonna vote HP with me in that moment. Ephi? Woo, I can get voted out while technically being on the right vote, yay.. lolNatiko making a play of the game, correctly identifying that HP is Scum and was supposed to get bussed the day the vote swung to Royal.
But instead of voting for HP, he votes for Ephi.
In 99% of games labeled as normal role madness if we voted out the fucking BP granter you and everyone else in spec would be dunking on us hard. Just because you and most of the spec thread were spoiled on aspects doesn’t suddenly change how this would go in most games.
anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
I was told my block could work on someone who issued a kill order, so it would have worked regardless of whether LP’s protection worked.
HPSauce
Wait, I was right? Fuck
I didn't do the kill though.
anexanhume
My logic is based on the famous “goat problem”
Ah, that’s right. The duo of LP and I working in synergy is a better story anyway.
Lone_Prodigy
Am I at 10 posts yet?
Yeah I pretty much agree with everything Nat said.
It was labeled normal role madness and if it was unusual we would've approached the game differently. Would it have made a difference in the result? Maybe not, but all that mechanics and role talk would've been lessened. I've only ever seen a 1 shot scum double vote, and 2 just made it less likely to be a scum role.
The anex block on HP may have looked obvious to you in spec thread but to us, it just looked like the doctor blocked the kill.
Malus played like uninterested town after using a public command and his BP vest kept him alive, but he also voted for Blarg. It was a perfect storm.
Combine everything that happened with some bad luck and it didn't end up as a great game for town. I'm just sad I wasn't scum because that end game waa my dream scenario (sit back while high activity posters vote each other out). :P
It was labeled normal role madness and if it was unusual we would've approached the game differently. Would it have made a difference in the result? Maybe not, but all that mechanics and role talk would've been lessened. I've only ever seen a 1 shot scum double vote, and 2 just made it less likely to be a scum role.
The anex block on HP may have looked obvious to you in spec thread but to us, it just looked like the doctor blocked the kill.
Malus played like uninterested town after using a public command and his BP vest kept him alive, but he also voted for Blarg. It was a perfect storm.
Combine everything that happened with some bad luck and it didn't end up as a great game for town. I'm just sad I wasn't scum because that end game waa my dream scenario (sit back while high activity posters vote each other out). :P
FateShirou
ain't no law when you're drinking the claw
I want closure
1) how many shots did LP have and when did he run out
2) what was the purpose of the backup doctor
3) what is the basics on the game being mislabeled
1) how many shots did LP have and when did he run out
2) what was the purpose of the backup doctor
3) what is the basics on the game being mislabeled
Fanto
Confirmed Town
1. 3, he used one shot each night he could, so he ran out on Night 3. His targets were Yuta, ATP, and Wee.
2. The Backup Doctor was so Town could continue having a Doctor if the original one died in the first couple days. Town having a lot of protection was def part of the design.
3. The game probably should have been called Unusual because it uses a lot of non-standard roles, and the way the Scum team was balanced against mass claims means that it worked against normal/reasonable expectations.