Scum Thread The Top Shelf

Randomless · Feb 28, 2022

I'm gonna preview my big pre-written post here, let me know if you think there's anything off with it

Randomless · Feb 28, 2022

I’ve got a pre-written post coming up here. Like I said yesterday, Sunday was my free day. I am going out for dinner for my birthday this evening shortly after day start, the reservation is 1 hour after day start so I can’t stick around after posting this. My birthday is next week but my province is removing all covid restrictions on March 1st, so I’m not gonna feel comfortable going to eat indoors at a restaurant for a long time after this. I apologize for being busy again but if there’s anything I’ve learned from playing Mafia is that you have to prioritize real life or else the game no longer is a game and it becomes not fun to play.

List of Vere interactions:

I included all interactions, even meme ones. This includes name drops, pings, quotes. I only counted one per post so if the same person was mentioned multiple times in a post it counts for 1.

VERE’S DAY 1 POSTS ENDS

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-17#post-82550293
Quotes malus after he already flipped

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-18#post-82578349
Chuggs
Haw
Sneeks

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-18#post-82607956
Ty
Chuggs
Haw
Fran
Wiz
Sneeks
Launch
Hedin
Rando
EC
Ty
Shirou
Stan
Sparks
Hedin kinda right in the middle, good place to be for scum.

VERE’S NIGHT 1 POSTS ENDS:

VERE’S DAY 2 POSTS ENDS:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-30#post-82762285
Sneeks
Shirou
EC
Wizard
Stan

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-30#post-82789183
Sneeks
Shirou
Ty
Stan
Rando
Wiz
Chuggs
Launch
Hedin
“Fine with Hedin”
EC

VERE’S NIGHT 2 POSTS ENDS:

Vere mentions of other players table:

	Day 1	Day 2	Day 3
Sparks	7	4	5
EC	9	23	4
Stan	7	10	6
malus	11	1	2
Chuggs	11	7	8
Hedin	6	7	1
Sneeks	11	9	17
Rando	5	4	1
Fran	12	4	3
Ty4on	11	7	6
Launch	8	13	4
Wizard	8	9	1
Shirou	9	11	13
Hawthorn	5	0	3

These numbers are rough, I counted everything by hand. I think D3 in particular is not gonna be super helpful for interactions because of how it went. Despite that, I believe it can help give some insight.

Hedin is in the middle of interactions, quantity-wise, for Vere. What’s interesting is how many times Vere has Hedin in roughly the middle of his reads list. He doesn’t really dig further, the read basically just stagnates, and he mentions Hedin enough times to not draw suspicion.

Here are the important interactions Vere has with Hedin:

Verelios said:
I would agree if this was close to EoD but the day just started Hedin. Not even 24 hours have passed so this response seems premature. If that was the entire reasoning for the day end vote and push, then it's terrible, but it looks like just a start.

First interaction with Hedin, he tut tuts him for reacting negatively to Hawthorn’s EC push. I think this could be some distancing.

Verelios said:
Almost at the halfway point of D1, and seeing as everyone has apparently checked in here's my thoughts currently.

People I like: Random, Fran, Saw, Launch

People I want to keep hearing from: Chuggs, Haw, The Wizard, Hedin

People I want to keep an eye on and get them to start moving: Fate, Malus, Stan, EC

People What: Sparks, Ty

Has Hedin smack dab in the middle of his reads list.

Verelios said:
It was a weak reason. If you wanted him to panic then you should have had multiple people ping him so that he's confused when entering the thread and caught off guard when seeing his vote.

Calls out Sneeks reasoning behind the Hedin vote as weak. Possible defense for Hedin.

Verelios said:
Damn, you left out Hedin just like that.

Calls out Ty for “leaving out” Hedin. I think this was trying to set up Ty as a defender for Hedin, so when Ty is killed and flips town Hedin would look better.

Verelios said:
Present:

Like: Chuggs (Up), Haw(Up), Fran (hear thoughts yesterday)

Could Like: The Wizard, Saw(Down), Launch (Down)

No Self: Hedin(Down), Randomless (Down), EC(Up), Ty(Up- Would like to see if he keeps up the energy D2 if he lives)

Bad: Fate (Down), Stan (Down)

I guess I like: Sparks

Hedin once again in the middle of the fray on the reads list.

Verelios said:
While we wait for The Wizard to get summoned, why did you stay on Launch at day end? Did you think his train would take off?

Tosses up a softball question for Hedin.

Verelios said:
Okay, fair enough. Both wagons flipped town so I doubt there was a difference in staying on or moving.

Handwaves the response to the above question and doesn’t press further. This reads to me like scum manufacturing conversation.

Verelios said:
Relation Board

P=Possible

NL= Not Likely

Saw (Broke tie D2) + Fate (P)

Ty X Stan (Push) (NL)

Random (interaction chart) X Wizard (NL)

Where I'm at in descending order from most to least:

*Town read: Chuggs->Launch

*Who I'm fine with for now: Randomless->Saw->Ty->Hedin

*Where is scum most likely: Fate~EC->Wizard->Stan (Gut)

Hedin still in the middle reads-wise.

I think Hedin is scummates with Vere.

Shirou and EC are near the top for Vere’s interactions. Vere dogs on Shirou frequently, pushing him and voting for him, even when Shirou is in contention, like on D1 when Shirou’s wagon was leading for a while before things moved to Ty/malus/Fran, and on D2 where Shirou’s wagon was the second largest at EoD.

Here’s some examples of going in on Shirou:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-20#post-82624027

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-20#post-82623346

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-19#post-82619395

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-11#post-82534483

Vere pushes EC quite a bit as well, especially on D2. However, the pressure on EC feels a lot more manufactured. He’s a lot more hedgy with his reads on EC, and he only votes EC when he’s not really in contention anyway.

For example:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-21#post-82629772

“I don’t know what to think here” is hedgy

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-23#post-82680964

"So, EC. He's not a player I'm very good at dealing with.” More hedging. He does ISO and vote EC in this post but it feels limp, especially after Vere changes his vote later in the phase.

Vere tosses EC some softball questions, similar to Hedin:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-21#post-82628026

Here he gives EC the chance to back up his read with something substantial instead of just outright dogging him.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-24#post-82696129

This is a surprisingly open and gentle question to a top scum read.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-24#post-82691680

I see this post as a scummate going “what the hell are you doing” with the chex stuff

What’s interesting is Vere himself actually draws attention to the fact he sees EC and Shirou similarly, in this post: https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-26#post-82715992

To go even further, he offers up Shirou and EC as part of a scum team with Sneeks, way after he’s been found out:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/ma...it-on-fire-maybe.554797/page-34#post-82820569

Once again equating Shirou and EC.

What this leads me to believe is that only one of these players is scum, at most. I don’t think scum would read two scummates in a similar way like this. If I had to guess, EC is the scummate and not Shirou. The pressure on Shirou feels a lot more real in a way that is just excessive if they are actually scummates, whereas EC feels more like a classic bus, where he hedges and is ready to pounce if EC picks up heat for that sweet town cred. I also still feel like Shirou is on his own. He doesn’t really feel teamed with anyone. It’s possible that neither are scum, and I’ll get to that in a second.

Similar to Vere, Hedin has also been pushing EC a lot. Hedin’s pushes on EC are a lot more full-throated than Vere’s, and harder to back down from. I could see this being a two-pronged, coordinated strategy to push EC here. Now, whether that means EC is scum or town is still to be determined. I think with this push he could feasibly be either. Hedin going after EC isn’t outside of his town meta, even if he “mistakenly” votes out town!EC. Going for the double bus would be an interesting strategy though.

My personal theory is that I think the plan was for Hedin and Vere to both bus EC for the town cred if it came down to it, but Vere ended up caught out with the mass claim. Vere is a roleblocker. Maybe Hedin has another power role and EC has a weaker role or no ability as scum? Thus they tried to bus the “weakest” among them.

If EC is indeed town, then Wiz is the only one remaining in the PoE at that point so I’d have to go there. I don’t really think it’s him, but if it is he’s been playing a really good game.

Either way, I think Hedin is the right vote today.

Vote: Hedin

The Wizard · Feb 28, 2022

Damn Rando, looks good I think I'd scan that and say town most games, esp. if I thought we had time for multiple flips.

The Wizard · Feb 28, 2022

If you can maybe 2/3 lines or a quote that stood out for me and Vere, because right now you just town lean on me at the end without as much digging? Could point to the role fishing convo day 1 or Vere joining me on Fate twice as poor distancing.

The Wizard · Feb 28, 2022

Also happy early birthday! Enjoy

The Wizard · Feb 28, 2022

Don't think it's Wiz after all that solving yesterday. Stan has his claim, as does Launch.

Vere pushing Fate and EC as votes/reads focus makes me think it's not them. Fate is a maybe.

PoE says it's Hedin and Rando.

Verelios about Wizard:

Scummy:
-Seems to know Vere is scum in early game
-Static Vere read
-Appears uncomfortable after claim

The Wizard · Feb 28, 2022

Alright dream team, I'll be around the first hour and my availability gets spotty after that.

If Stan is dead, we need 2 of:
Chuggs, Launch, Sneeks, Hedin or EC

voting for Hedin or EC.
Rando will start the day on Hedin.

Rest of town will decide how slow they want to take the day. No reason for more than one of us to have a vote down before hammer range. Careful of open wolfing in your vote in case town has any extra surprised (extra vig shot, some other PR)

The Wizard · Feb 28, 2022

Town can't reach hammer without us, no reason to vote each other without decent pressure.

Randomless · Feb 28, 2022

Am I going crazy or did the day not start yet

The Wizard · Feb 28, 2022

Don't worry Monkey is just taking her time to write up the game over message after Launch shot Hedin.
[I think she is just AFK]

Randomless · Feb 28, 2022

I hope I can post from my phone. I also hope Monkey is alright

heymonkey · Feb 28, 2022

Sorry, dudes! am fine, just a big adhd brain moment.

Randomless · Feb 28, 2022

Okay we got Stan. There's hope my fellow memers. We can do this. Stay strong

Randomless · Feb 28, 2022

I'm glad you're alright Monkey

The Wizard · Feb 28, 2022

Sneeks is straight in there. Heading to a meetup, @FateShirou you around to help hammer if needed?

FateShirou · Mar 1, 2022

yes im around now

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Alright I'm gonna do one post and then I genuinely need to head out for a bit. I think Chuggs and Launch are too cautious to bring it to 3 where 2 scum could hammer, I don't know if Hedin will be frustrated enough to self-vote or invested enough to solve.

Fate I'm gonna ask who you would like if you had 2 shots, feel free to answer whoever you don't need to exclude me or Rando

FateShirou · Mar 1, 2022

aye aye

FateShirou · Mar 1, 2022

bravo to you EC
you got the whole scum team figured out

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

FateShirou said:
bravo to you EC
you got the whole scum team figured out

Props to him.
I'm back, thinking of building up the EC case a bit. I'll put longer posts here first to be safe.
Going to push EC and Hedin (and Fate?) to rank their preferred flips. Going to make the argument that if everyone wants Hedin, it is likely scum is happy for it to be Hedin.

Our top 2 collectively should probably not each by Hedin + EC, or else town can connect us as pairs.
Mine is EC -> Hedin, Rando is Hedin -> EC, Fate do you have one down yet?

FateShirou · Mar 1, 2022

I will take EC -> Rando

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

You can make those pushes if you want, I'd be wary of pushing EC after I did though. As long as y'all are prepared to switch to hammer a townie if that is possible when needed I don't really mind.

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

With the way the day is going, we win by running down the clock. As it stands we can stack on Hedin or EC by day end. But I think town get impatient and flip before then

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Sorry, I meant to say after I pushed EC and got pushback from Sneeks. Launch seems to consider my EC push but Sneeks doesn't buy it at all. They're talking about me widening the PoE even though I literally didn't do that, Hedin did lol

So just be careful of that is all I'm saying

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

More busy work and color coding.
Gonna back off now and let town do its thing.
The only thing we need to avoid is town wanting Rando out before Hedin or EC.

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Alright gonna leave Sneeks, Launch and Chuggs decide today I think.
Might have misplayed this day so far by opening up me/Rando as a pair, I shouldn't look like I am swaying town away from this.

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Yeah you probably could've gone without that last post but that's okay, we just gotta hope and pray.

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Hammer point

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

@FateShirou are you around? We can win right here if you and Wiz vote Hedin

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Wiz keep checking the thread, if there's one more Hedin vote you hammer. I imagine Launch will vote there soon

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

QUOTE="MrHedin, post: 82931722, member: 50642"]

Since you are the only other one who is active right now same question to you, what's your current thought process between Random vs Fate?

I thought Fate might be town because Vere voted for him when he was viable in TvT and if Vere feared a tracker he may have roleblocked Fate. (Vere said he blocked Ty n1, and Ty was killed n2 - scum might have thought Ty was the doc?)

Unless Vere was hoping the flavor claim would clear scum!Fate, but in that case why pre-empt Fate to make it look more credible?

Rando, his posts don't seem super scummy to be but he comes up in a lot of my PoE. I think even if you are town Rando might be the correct next move but need to check the pairings.
[/QUOTE]
Think I'm better off answering Hedin here or not?

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Yeah I think answering Hedin with that is fine.

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Feel bad for Hedin here. No one is really making the case for him and it's being treated as a foregone conclusion.
Town ruling me out from PoE cause I'm solving, that's not how that works at least look at the votes/connections

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

I'm gonna have to make an entrance in the thread here now.

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Starting work but I have a vote for Hedin lined up, just need Fate or Launch to settle on the turbo.

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

@The Wizard are you ready to vote whenever?

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Yup pretty much. Launch is playing it safe so I think we need FateShirou and hopefully Sneeks doesn't withdraw

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Alright hopefully Shirou votes soon, he said he was going on Hedin

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

DO IT NOW

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

@The Wizard plz

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

@heymonkey did we do it?

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Okay I think we won lol

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Victory gif choice:

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Didn't post for some reason

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Ael stepped in let's go

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Think we got it.
Will understand of town are upset by 4 scum, but they did gloss over Rando/me, Fate/me, Rando/Fate - all of which are valid lol

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Technically we gotta do this to win:

Kill: Chuggs

There's no way Chuggs is bulletproof or something since he's a mason, that's what I'm thinking. I'm pretty confident somebody would've claimed if they were a protective role anyway, to narrow the PoE further.

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Yeah kill Chuggs his role PM has to match Hawthorns so no suprise factor. I think everyone else is though, hell of a bluff otherwise

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

Great work memers, we avenged Vere

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

*is VT

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

No way a white claw can is as strong as my copper mug :D

The Wizard · Mar 1, 2022

Oh yeah technically Fate should probably submit the fact kill tonight in case town has some way of blocking Rando after Hedins flip

Randomless · Mar 1, 2022

The Wizard said:
Oh yeah technically Fate should probably submit the fact kill tonight in case town has some way of blocking Rando after Hedins flip

Oh yeah good point. Pretty sure we're allowed to do this:

FriendShirou: Kill: Chuggs

Scum Thread The Top Shelf

VERE’S DAY 1 POSTS ENDS​

VERE’S NIGHT 1 POSTS ENDS:​

VERE’S DAY 2 POSTS ENDS:​

VERE’S NIGHT 2 POSTS ENDS:​

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Known Roblox Expert

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ain't no law when you're drinking the claw

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VERE’S DAY 1 POSTS ENDS

VERE’S NIGHT 1 POSTS ENDS:

VERE’S DAY 2 POSTS ENDS:

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